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 Best of the Badlands
   
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Because I am just curious, and I put this on my FB yesterday and got a variety of answers, I am putting it up here as well. When a mare owner spends $$$$ on stud fees, the cost of repro, vet bills, feed and vet care, what are the reasons to NOT register the resulting foal? Provided it is healthy and doing well. I am not talking about mares whose foals died before they were old enough to be registered, ect. I am talking about bonafide futurity prospects, out of well bred mares, that have simply not been registered. I am not directing this at anyone, I am not trying to be snarky. I just want to know the reasoning behind it. Please add your own answers. I put the answers I got on FB last night, below.
Edited by rockinas 2014-02-28 11:50 AM
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  Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| Sometimes I procrastinate past the 7 month birthdate and have to pay more, but I never have waited until they were yearlings.
In my mind, stupid not to register them...pretty much renders them worth a LOT less. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | I'm really shocked that more people don't register? That's crazy. I register everything, I also transfer anything I purchase. One of my pet peeves is people that don't transfer.
I would guess people are just plain lazy. After spending that kind of money for stud fees and AI/vet fees I can't believe money would be an issue as to why they aren't registering. Laziness or stupidity. |
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 Texas Lone Star
Posts: 5318
Location: where ever my L/Q trl is parked | I register everything I breed or foal out and around 6 months old.
I think some are just lazy and don't care.
Even if papers don't make a horse more valuable, it's nice to know what makes up the horse.
It would be nice if AQHA wouldn't ask an arm and leg to go thru the process for a grade horse to DNA for registeration. I've had 2 really nice bred horses that I bought grade and always wondered what actual line they came from. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | i dont know why you wouldn't(i gonna go with pure lazy)........i usually have the pics and paper work done within the first week(hence the bad pics......lol) ..........and i also send updates to the stud owners once i get things goin.....;)
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I think a lot more die than a person thinks. I register just about as soon as they are born so most are already papered when they die. I know we lost one that was stepped on while still on the mare, one as a yearling that got cast in the night, one was struck by lightning, one died at 2 weeks before it was reg though, just laid down and died. And last summer I had to put one down that had some joint issue...oh and another one a few years ago that was bit by a rattle snake. I'm pretty small time breeder with no more than 10 mares at any time. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-02-25 8:59 AM I think a lot more die than a person thinks. I register just about as soon as they are born so most are already papered when they die. I know we lost one that was stepped on while still on the mare, one as a yearling that got cast in the night, one was struck by lightning, one died at 2 weeks before it was reg though, just laid down and died. And last summer I had to put one down that had some joint issue...oh and another one a few years ago that was bit by a rattle snake. I'm pretty small time breeder with no more than 10 mares at any time. That is some really rotten luck!!!!
While I know that some will die, I also know of a few, some even being ridden, that have never been papered.
A few months ago, I saw a horse sired by one of our stallions being advertised as a futurity prospect and eligible for breeders incentives. Since we are not a huge operation, I remembered shipping the semen for that particular colt's dam. When I looked the horse up on the AQHA website, at the time, he had never been registered. Maybe he has been since but at that point it was going to cost a lot of money to get it registered.
I don't know how a grade horse can be eligible for breeders futurity incentives since most of them require papers of some sort to enroll.
Edited by rockinas 2014-02-25 9:38 AM
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 Roan Wonder
Location: SW MO | We register all of ours. We try to keep track of our foals to see where they are and what they are doing, so that we know what our horses are producing good or bad. It much easier to do if you name them. I just hate it when someone changes their registered name because that makes it harder to do that. |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| We register early. So far we've only lost foals under a week old. We've had some try to die, but fail LOL!
I do know of a known breeder who ETs a lot of their mares...they flushed 2 embryos out of a nice enough mare, put both in recips, thought only 1 took, both foaled, and they refused to pay the extra stud fee (makes zero sense to me) so the uglier of the 2 was left as grade. Last I heard he was about 6 or 7, unbroke, and standing in a run because they wanted registered price for him...I still don't understand it! |
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 Expert
Posts: 2159
Location: NW. Florida | I can't imagine going through the stallion search, finding the one that you think best suits your mare, and then the expense then not registering the foal makes no sence to me. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Carbon Copy - 2014-02-25 8:27 AM I can't imagine going through the stallion search, finding the one that you think best suits your mare, and then the expense then not registering the foal makes no sence to me.
I agree so much with this. I have names picked out before they are even born! Heck my "pinkish" colt I had born by Amy's stud was registered as a palomino before he actually turned palomino. He had white coming in his mane and amber eyes so I just knew! |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | I'm not a breeder, but have bought two foals in the past, from different breeders. One was already registered, the other was not. I was a little peeved that I had to pay for the registration and transfer for one of them, I felt like it was the breeder's responsibility. I don't think the buyer should have to deal with the hassle, it should be part of the breeder's responsibility. |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| Mine are registered within a week and have the papers back within three weeks of the birth. You never know what life dishes out and I want my horses to be sold at their value not garage sale prices. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | I register as soon as I can. I find it hard to believe that anyone would say it costs to much when they just spent thousands on stud fees and vet fees. Registering the foal is like my reward for all that money spent!
Edited by Murphy 2014-02-25 9:36 AM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | rockinas - 2014-02-25 8:19 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-02-25 8:59 AM I think a lot more die than a person thinks. I register just about as soon as they are born so most are already papered when they die. I know we lost one that was stepped on while still on the mare, one as a yearling that got cast in the night, one was struck by lightning, one died at 2 weeks before it was reg though, just laid down and died. And last summer I had to put one down that had some joint issue...oh and another one a few years ago that was bit by a rattle snake. I'm pretty small time breeder with no more than 10 mares at any time. That is some really rotten luck!!!!
While I know that some will die, I also know of several that were born, alive, that are still alive, of riding age, some even being ridden, that have never been papered. Those are the types of deals I am questioning.
A few months ago, I saw a horse sired by one of our stallions being advertised as a futurity prospect and eligible for breeders incentives. When I looked the horse up on the AQHA website, it had never been registered. And at that point it was going to cost a lot of money to get it registered.
I don't know how a grade horse can be eligible for breeders futurity incentives since most of them require papers of some sort to enroll.
Tell me about it. The one that died at 2 weeks was by Corona Caliente (who stood for $5000 at the time) and our Dean Miracle mare. Only foal she ever had too.
The snake bit filly we Dr'd on for 3 months and she finally got infection in the joint above her hoof. It bit her when she was 2 days old. The yearling laid down next to the feeder that night and apparently got cast as she was dead upside down when we found her the next morning.
Of course the lightning was just a freak deal. I'm surprised it didn't get the mare...or more of the mares/foals. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | May I ask how much it costs to register a foal? I've never bred anything before (nor do I plan to anytime soon!), but I would think it would be something you'd go ahead and budget in. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Longneck - 2014-02-25 9:39 AM May I ask how much it costs to register a foal? I've never bred anything before (nor do I plan to anytime soon!), but I would think it would be something you'd go ahead and budget in.
For an AQHA foal:
foaling-7 months $30
7-12 months $60
12-24 months $150
25 months-36 months $300
37 months-48 months $400
after 48 months $500 + parentage verification
Shipped semen or embryo transfer foals also require parentage verification which is an additional $40. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Wow! That really is just a drop in the bucket compared to stud fees!! |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Okay, I'm on top of registering those I breed. I WILL NOT have a foal I bred leave my place without papers. Zephyr was registered at 3 months. I will have the paperwork for this next one in even sooner. Nor will I breed one that is not eligible for them.
Now, my FIL, he toots around about it. They usually get registered but sometimes not until they are 3 or 4. I will note that everything he has bred, we've kept though, not sold. |
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Mine have all been registered before they turned 6 months old.....if you can't afford the wopping $30 to get them registered you probably shouldn't be raising a foal. I don't see any good reason not to register them, it protects the horse down the road as we all know that a registered horse has a better chance in the world than a grade one. And it also opens the door for the owner to sell for more money since grade horses typically bring less. |
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | We register everything born on our place ... I dont understand why people would not. We bought two yearling colts last year because we owned the mamas ... neither were registered so we had to pay more to register them but we dang sure got it done.
So silly not to ... re sale, identification, stallion/owner records, etc ... I dont get it. its $30 up to 7 months of age. |
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 Uh....never mind
Posts: 2696
Location: Midwest Farmer's Daughter: Central Illinois | All of our foals are registered with the exception of two & that was because my dad was simply too busy/lazy to do it. Now they're five.
I don't see any reason not to register a foal. Period.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | This is a very interesting post!
I'm not a breeder but have came across lots of nice horses in the past couple of years with breeders certificates but no papers. By the time a 2-3 year old comes into my hands that is not broke and not papered, you have to wonder why no one bothered to paper them? Horses have very little value without a job anymore and genetics play a large role in me deciding if I want to spend my time and money to make a horse out of them...really frustrating to see so many potential nice prospects with no current papers.
I think that a lot of the reason is AQHA has gone up on their fees and their customer service is terrible at best! As for APHA I won't even go there..
Sad that nice horses are loosing more value because of paperwork issues :(
Maybe its time someone started new group..... |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Why in the world would you not register one? You're making the horse worth much less for the rest of it's life by not doing it.
(This coming from someone that thinks transferring gelding that you're not going to do AQHA stuff with is pointless) |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I don't get it either. With my two babies that were born last year, the filly we registered I think before she was 2 months old. She was a solid sorrel filly so it wasn't a waiting game to see if markings would get more clear in a picture, or if they were going to shed out into another color.
My colt most definitely was before he was 6 months old. He was also sorrel, but was starting to show a coon tail and roan flanks so I waited a little bit to see where all the rabicano hairs would show up.
I also typically have names picked out before they are born, and get the final one decided soon after they are born. I don't want the names getting taken between now and then so I fill out the paperwork ASAP. I would hate to wait around until they were a year or more and then not get the name I wanted.
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I don't get it either. I register everything I raise out of my mares before they are 7 months old. I also pay them in full to the breeders incentive we have up here. So when they sell they are ready to go.
True story: I bought a daughter of FWF that wasn't registered until she was 5. The people I bought her from never transferred her into their names, yet she had a NICE filly by Draws A Crowd while they owned her. They still have the filly, who to this day isn't registered. I told them I would buy that filly from them, but the paperwork had to be in order. Nothing but crickets.... I don't get it.  |
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 Member
Posts: 40
Location: SE Oklahoma | I know an older gentlemen that got irritated with AQHA and now doesn't believe in papers. It's a shame because he has really nice, well built horses with no papers to prove they're anything. He still breeds them and raises them. But never registers anything. Such a waste. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | To me if someone is breeding then its their responsibility to get these babys register. 
I guess the one that disliked my post is one of the lazy ones, hope that your not a breeder.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-02-25 11:28 AM
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | i don't register any foals until i wean in the fall....some don't make it, so it is a waste for me do do it on every one that is born each year......and i've sold both way as well, with and without registering.....if i happen to sell one before weaning i used to not bother registering them myself....now i tend to like to name them, which is the only reason..... i don't think papers mean much to a lot of people so i'm not surprised to hear that some don't show up.....i think it's probably even less that get transferred even if they are registered.....at least once or twice a year i get a call or letter about a horse from here that someone is trying to transfer and is having trouble tracking down everything and if i could just do a new transfer for them.....if it's not too much hassle for me, i don't mind.....i usually have a few little demands first though...lol
Edited by dhdqhllc 2014-02-25 11:41 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| If you don't believe in your program enough to spend $30 on it, why would anyone else? The whole "I love this colt and he'll never leave me" arguement doesn't do much for me either. Life has a way of changing and there are pages of for sale ads that start with "Never thought I'd sell him but due to circumsances". Now that horse is cast to the wind with a lot less chance at a future. Pretty simple and cheap insurance in giving that colt some hope in the future.
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | i would bet that alot, if not most, quarter horse colts are sold on application...... |
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Location: Mendenhall, Ms | We register everything before 6 months of age. I don't want to give the AQHA any more money than I have too. I want all colts I sell to have papers and a negative coggins test in hand when they leave the place. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | I guess I am not only speaking as a stallion owner, but also as a mare owner.
Every foal that could be registered and isn't (for whatever reason!) hurts not only stallion stats but also mare stats.
Who wants to buy a broodmare that didn't have foals registered?
Registering the foals is the only way really to prove what a mare has had.
What a mare has produced a lot of times is the difference in a valuable broodmare and one that is pretty much has no value.
So not only does it affect the stallions sire stats, it affects the value of the broodmare and obviously the value of the foal. By several thousand dollars in some cases.
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | rockinas - 2014-02-25 11:48 AM I guess I am not only speaking as a stallion owner, but also as a mare owner.
Every foal that could be registered and isn't (for whatever reason!) hurts not only stallion stats but also mare stats.
Who wants to buy a broodmare that didn't have foals registered?
Registering the foals is the only way really to prove what a mare has had.
What a mare has produced a lot of times is the difference in a valuable broodmare and one that is pretty much has no value.
So not only does it affect the stallions sire stats, it affects the value of the broodmare and obviously the value of the foal. By several thousand dollars in some cases.
that is very true......
and just to note, i just started paging through the hermanson sale and out of the first 20 head, 7 are grade.....broke though... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 11:43 AM
i would bet that alot, if not most, quarter horse colts are sold on application......
The thing that worries me is yes you can sell a horse with application, but that doesn't mean aqha will register the horse.
Looked at a direct daughter of judge cash, application was signed, aqha would not register this horse due to her being over age of 5 and mother was not dead and no DNA on file.
If the application is all hand written, unless you call aqha to verify, the seller may be selling you one who does not have the application in order, no DNA, no stallion report, etc.
I would rather pay a little more for the papers then the application. Too many crooked people, or backyard breeders that don't know what they are doing |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 11:50 AM
and just to note, i just started paging through the hermanson sale and out of the first 20 head, 7 are grade.....broke though...
Wow! Ranch type geldings I assume? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
Location: Sweet Home Alabama | I bought a 3 yo (2009) mare in July 2012 with the intentions of running her. The next January I found out she was pregnant. I called the guy I bought her from & he said they did breed her but she never checked in foal. We did the DNA test, took pics, & sent the $ to get her registered but we can't proceed without the breeders signature & for some reason, he wont sign. He wont return my calls or letters. AQHA has contacted him but still nothing.... She's such a nice filly. It's really frustrating.
Here's her pedigree-
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/chromed+out+bunny |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Ashton94 - 2014-02-25 12:06 PM I bought a 3 yo (2009 ) mare in July 2012 with the intentions of running her. The next January I found out she was pregnant. I called the guy I bought her from & he said they did breed her but she never checked in foal. We did the DNA test, took pics, & sent the $ to get her registered but we can't proceed without the breeders signature & for some reason, he wont sign. He wont return my calls or letters. AQHA has contacted him but still nothing.... She's such a nice filly. It's really frustrating. Here's her pedigree- http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/chromed+out+bunny
Now that is a really crappy deal. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | rockinas - 2014-02-25 11:56 AM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 11:50 AM
and just to note, i just started paging through the hermanson sale and out of the first 20 head, 7 are grade.....broke though... Wow! Ranch type geldings I assume?
pretty much....
i see there is an FF gelding at the start of day 2 |
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 I too, shall remain nameless!
Posts: 2248
Location: Wearing a winter coat...... | I register all of mine and usually before they are 3 months old. I can't keep quiet on the names I choose for them ..... then I worry someone will steal my name!! I had wanted to name my last colt "Fifty Shades of Bay" and someone took it so he ended up " Fifty Shades Of Fame" which in the end, was better IMO. Like everyone else, I am cheap too but that is why I do it FAST! There is a breeder up here that has a nice stud. Lots of nice babies but not a 1 registered. Sad deal! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | I fall into the procrastinators catagory. In my defense I have had 4 colts and breed ApHC. Once they are gelded the fees no longer rise it is a set $50 to register a gelding no matter what age. So I wait until they are gelded the spring of their yearling year on purpose. Then I am the worlds worst photo taker and it takes me awhile to get cute pictures I refuse to put bad ones on their papers for the rest of their life. :) Finally one of my mares is grey so I might as well wait until the foal gets to its final color. Most are registered by the end of the summer their yearling year. But my I did just get the papers back on my 5 year old. He was pretty homely and not photogenic he took longer then normal to get a good shot of.
All that being said if they were going up for sale the papers would be in the mail to the club before the ad went up. I would not sell them on a cert. unless it was to a friend that really wanted to name them themselves.
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Ashton94 - 2014-02-25 12:06 PM
I bought a 3 yo (2009 ) mare in July 2012 with the intentions of running her. The next January I found out she was pregnant. I called the guy I bought her from & he said they did breed her but she never checked in foal. We did the DNA test, took pics, & sent the $ to get her registered but we can't proceed without the breeders signature & for some reason, he wont sign. He wont return my calls or letters. AQHA has contacted him but still nothing.... She's such a nice filly. It's really frustrating.
Here's her pedigree-
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/chromed+out+bunny
Several years ago I bought a really nice registered mare for dirt cheap. The girl who owned her had tried to breed her to her stud, but apparently it didn't take, so she put her up for sale. A few months after I got her, I noticed she was looking a little fuller, so had her vet checked and sure enough, she was in foal. I contacted the girl I got the horse from and she was just beside herself that the mare was in fact pregnant, started throwing these offers out to buy the foal, then to buy the mare back, and was super flakey and kept going back and forth. We could never agree to anything, so I asked if she could do a breeding report so when the baby was born I could get it registered. Never heard back from her and I ended up selling the mare before she foaled because I didn't want to mess with all that. I gave the new owners her contact info, but I highly doubt they were ever able to get the foal registered. Such a shame because it would've been a really nice baby. |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| Yes I register my colts immediately. And yes it bothers me when people don't pay those colts into programs they are eligible for like Future Fortunes.
It is sooooo much cheaper when they're babies people!!
Edited by roanrider 2014-02-25 4:47 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | I have one foal a year & it is registered by 6mnths. I also register my geldings. I sold a gelding awhile back, n was interested in buying him back, but he's never been transferred, which makes him hard to track!! Same way with progeny out of my mare, would be interested in some of her daughters, except the people on their papers don't have them any more!
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| In the past I have sold babies with their breeders certificate which is also their papers to be registered to match racers and to mexico drill teams and those foals never got registered. The match racing horses were fantastic money earners but not eligible to go to the track and go on my mare's produce records ... so it makes my mares look like they skipped years and might be associated with breeding problems which is a bad thing if you go to sell the mare ...
I REGISTER EVERYTHING WHILE STILL NURSING AND ALSO PAY THEM INTO THE OKLAHOMA BRED RACING PROGRAM WHICH IS ADDITIONAL PURSE MONEY ADDED JUST FOR OKLA BRED HORSES!!! THIS ALSO INCLUDES DOING DNA PARENTAGE VERIFICATION TESTING THRU AQHA ... AMOUNTS TO $125 PER BABY ...
I look at it this way .... if you do not like the name I give a baby ... then send AQHA $50 and get it changed to your preference ... everything else is already paid for ...
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-02-25 3:11 PM
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 I Sell Dreams
Posts: 1654
Location: Freestone TX | I had a breeder do an embryo out of one of my top producers......and it was never registered. I know it was alive up until it was a yearling as I saw photos of it. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | NoNoBadGirl - 2014-02-25 4:20 PM I had a breeder do an embryo out of one of my top producers......and it was never registered. I know it was alive up until it was a yearling as I saw photos of it. Wow! All that expense of getting one on the ground and no papers. That blows my mind.
Edited by rockinas 2014-02-25 4:31 PM
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-25 3:08 PM In the past I have sold babies with their breeders certificate which is also their papers to be registered to match racers and to mexico drill teams and those foals never got registered. The match racing horses were fantastic money earners but not eligible to go to the track and go on my mare's produce records ... so it makes my mares look like they skipped years and might be associated with breeding problems which is a bad thing if you go to sell the mare ... I REGISTER EVERYTHING WHILE STILL NURSING AND ALSO PAY THEM INTO THE OKLAHOMA BRED RACING PROGRAM WHICH IS ADDITIONAL PURSE MONEY ADDED JUST FOR OKLA BRED HORSES!!! THIS ALSO INCLUDES DOING DNA PARENTAGE VERIFICATION TESTING THRU AQHA ... AMOUNTS TO $125 PER BABY ... I look at it this way .... if you do not like the name I give a baby ... then send AQHA $50 and get it changed to your preference ... everything else is already paid for ...
Right on....
The way I see it, it's almost worse for the mare owner than the stallion owner to not register the foals, for the reasons you mentioned.
When looking to buy a broodmare I will pick one that's had several registered foals consecutively over one that appears to skip a few years. Even though she may well have been producing babies that were not recorded.
It's hard to have proof of their babies if they're not registered.
And with *most* mares only producing one foal a year vs. a stallion that will sire several, it's tougher on the mare's production record than the studs.
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | SaraJean - 2014-02-25 10:11 AM Mine have all been registered before they turned 6 months old.....if you can't afford the wopping $30 to get them registered you probably shouldn't be raising a foal. I don't see any good reason not to register them, it protects the horse down the road as we all know that a registered horse has a better chance in the world than a grade one. And it also opens the door for the owner to sell for more money since grade horses typically bring less.
You have to add in the $40 to become a member. I think the breeder should do it and just add $30 to the cost of the foal. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | GoGaited - 2014-02-25 4:48 PM SaraJean - 2014-02-25 10:11 AM Mine have all been registered before they turned 6 months old.....if you can't afford the wopping $30 to get them registered you probably shouldn't be raising a foal. I don't see any good reason not to register them, it protects the horse down the road as we all know that a registered horse has a better chance in the world than a grade one. And it also opens the door for the owner to sell for more money since grade horses typically bring less. You have to add in the $40 to become a member. I think the breeder should do it and just add $30 to the cost of the foal.
So add in the $40 to the $30 and you have $70 to paper one that's 7 months old or less. If you need DNA testing it's another $40.
That's barely a drop in the bucket of paying a stud fee, and getting a live foal on the ground.  |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| 1 of the sales I consign to requires the foal be state bred...
Example foal costs (no feed, vet, etc):
stud fee $2500
enroll broodmare $50
register/parentage verify $70
challenge $300
accredit $50
consignment $600+ 5%
needless to say registering is the cheap part!!!!
add in vet work, mare care, feed, vaccinations, etc....and you cry |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | registration obviously is the cheap part of horse ownership but that's a choice for each individual.....breeders could guarantee registration for every foal produced from genetics from their operation if they wanted to as well....... |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 5:28 PM registration obviously is the cheap part of horse ownership but that's a choice for each individual.....breeders could guarantee registration for every foal produced from genetics from their operation if they wanted to as well.......
Only if they own the mares and stud owner cooperates!
Stallion owners cant force foal registration. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 5:28 PM registration obviously is the cheap part of horse ownership but that's a choice for each individual.....breeders could guarantee registration for every foal produced from genetics from their operation if they wanted to as well.......
That is why when we sell our foals privately, we already have the papers in hand on them before they leave our place. They leave with their registration certificate and a signed transfer.
I can't really control if the owners of the outside mares that we breed, choose to register their foals or not. Any outside breeding, provided all of the fees have been paid for in full, I go ahead and released when filing my SBR. By releasing those breedings that have been fulfilled, my signature as the stallion owner is not needed to register a foal out of a mare that's been released.
That's about as close as I can get to guaranteeing registration to a buyer that may end up with a foal by one of our stallions but out of someone else's mare. The mare owner has quite a bit of responsibility there to get it done. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 535
| We register every one ! I want people to know they are getting a baby out of a certain mare by a certain stud. I
know to some it doesnt matter, but we are a small operation and very proud of what we breed. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | kuhlmann - 2014-02-25 5:59 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 5:28 PM registration obviously is the cheap part of horse ownership but that's a choice for each individual.....breeders could guarantee registration for every foal produced from genetics from their operation if they wanted to as well....... Only if they own the mares and stud owner cooperates!
Stallion owners cant force foal registration.
sure they can....for one they don't have to breed to outside mares.......however they want to accomplish that, whether by only breeding mares they own or by making prospective clients transfer their mare over until the foal is registered......
yes, all of that is un handy and turns people away but if you are that adamant about making sure that your foals have papers, you could go to that extreme.....
same with broodmare only owners in regards to prerequisites they could set up....although they may not find anyone willing to work with them...but again, if it's that important to someone.... |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Southtxponygirl - 2014-02-25 11:20 AM
To me if someone is breeding then its their responsibility to get these babys register.
I guess the one that disliked my post is one of the lazy ones, hope that your not a breeder.
I agree. Seeing as the breeder is considered to be the mare owner, whoever is in possession of the mare should be the one registering the baby. For stallion owners who breed their own mares and sell semen to outside mares, their hands get tied if the mare owners who purchased breeding don't register the foal when it gets here. I still can't wrap my head around doing all that, waiting almost a year for a baby to get here, and then after ALL that not follow through and register it.
I won't sell any of my babies until their papers come back. |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 7:16 PM kuhlmann - 2014-02-25 5:59 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 5:28 PM registration obviously is the cheap part of horse ownership but that's a choice for each individual.....breeders could guarantee registration for every foal produced from genetics from their operation if they wanted to as well....... Only if they own the mares and stud owner cooperates!
Stallion owners cant force foal registration.
yes, all of that is un handy and turns people away but if you are that adamant about making sure that your foals have papers, you could go to that extreme.....
same with broodmare only owners in regards to prerequisites they could set up....although they may not find anyone willing to work with them...but again, if it's that important to someone....
It would turn every serious breeder away and you know it.
Possible but absolutely impractical on every level lol |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | I didn't read all the replies but I am one of those that has a 2013 foal that isn't registered yet. He is a solid APHA so the rate increase from Dec 31st to yearling year isn't very much so I opted to wait until spring when he sheds. He is a really weird color that keeps changing and seeing as they want to argue colors with you when they are nice and slicked off I am not going to send in pictures of a baby buffalo. It's also not easy getting decent pictures of them without any help either. I keep my foals though.
On another note, do you think some of them are at the association but are delayed? Good Lord when I sent in for the previous years foal it took forever between the association and DNA what not. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | casualdust07 - 2014-02-25 7:32 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-02-25 11:20 AM To me if someone is breeding then its their responsibility to get these babys register.
I guess the one that disliked my post is one of the lazy ones, hope that your not a breeder. I agree. Seeing as the breeder is considered to be the mare owner, whoever is in possession of the mare should be the one registering the baby. For stallion owners who breed their own mares and sell semen to outside mares, their hands get tied if the mare owners who purchased breeding don't register the foal when it gets here. I still can't wrap my head around doing all that, waiting almost a year for a baby to get here, and then after ALL that not follow through and register it. I won't sell any of my babies until their papers come back.
Thank you  Thats what I dont understand either, if someone is in the business of getter their mare's bred or have more then a few mares and their own stud, why in the heck would they not want to get their babys register? I would want my name out there on some awesome babys that I worked hard to get on the ground. The stallion owners is responsible for getting the stud report in and the mare owners the registering. Simple  |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | rockinas - 2014-02-25 4:30 PM NoNoBadGirl - 2014-02-25 4:20 PM I had a breeder do an embryo out of one of my top producers......and it was never registered. I know it was alive up until it was a yearling as I saw photos of it. Wow! All that expense of getting one on the ground and no papers. That blows my mind.
Mine too, just dont make any sense.  |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | AllAroundRider - 2014-02-25 7:51 PM
I didn't read all the replies but I am one of those that has a 2013 foal that isn't registered yet. He is a solid APHA so the rate increase from Dec 31st to yearling year isn't very much so I opted to wait until spring when he sheds. He is a really weird color that keeps changing and seeing as they want to argue colors with you when they are nice and slicked off I am not going to send in pictures of a baby buffalo. It's also not easy getting decent pictures of them without any help either. I keep my foals though.
On another note, do you think some of them are at the association but are delayed? Good Lord when I sent in for the previous years foal it took forever between the association and DNA what not.
While in my case some of last year's foals might be delayed, what about the ones from all of the previous years? All I have to do is look at my SBR history and it tells me if there has been a foal registered from the mating or not. I was just surprised at how many older ones, that I KNOW were born, some of which are even being ridden, were never registered.
Especially when our stud is eligible for so many breeders incentives. It makes me question spending the literal thousands of dollars every year that we spend to keep studs enrolled, when so many babies are never even followed through with.
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | kuhlmann - 2014-02-25 7:38 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 7:16 PM kuhlmann - 2014-02-25 5:59 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-25 5:28 PM registration obviously is the cheap part of horse ownership but that's a choice for each individual.....breeders could guarantee registration for every foal produced from genetics from their operation if they wanted to as well....... Only if they own the mares and stud owner cooperates!
Stallion owners cant force foal registration.
yes, all of that is un handy and turns people away but if you are that adamant about making sure that your foals have papers, you could go to that extreme.....
same with broodmare only owners in regards to prerequisites they could set up....although they may not find anyone willing to work with them...but again, if it's that important to someone....
Possible but absolutely impractical on every level lol
lol......it would.......but an option....lol |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | rockinas - 2014-02-25 8:05 PM AllAroundRider - 2014-02-25 7:51 PM I didn't read all the replies but I am one of those that has a 2013 foal that isn't registered yet. He is a solid APHA so the rate increase from Dec 31st to yearling year isn't very much so I opted to wait until spring when he sheds. He is a really weird color that keeps changing and seeing as they want to argue colors with you when they are nice and slicked off I am not going to send in pictures of a baby buffalo. It's also not easy getting decent pictures of them without any help either. I keep my foals though.
On another note, do you think some of them are at the association but are delayed? Good Lord when I sent in for the previous years foal it took forever between the association and DNA what not. While in my case some of last year's foals might be delayed, what about the ones from all of the previous years? All I have to do is look at my SBR history and it tells me if there has been a foal registered from the mating or not. I was just surprised at how many older ones, that I KNOW were born, some of which are even being ridden, were never registered. Especially when our stud is eligible for so many breeders incentives. It makes me question spending the literal thousands of dollars every year that we spend to keep studs enrolled, when so many babies are never even followed through with.
that is a good point about the incentives....but i think you still come out ahead on that....... |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | rockinas - 2014-02-25 8:05 PM AllAroundRider - 2014-02-25 7:51 PM I didn't read all the replies but I am one of those that has a 2013 foal that isn't registered yet. He is a solid APHA so the rate increase from Dec 31st to yearling year isn't very much so I opted to wait until spring when he sheds. He is a really weird color that keeps changing and seeing as they want to argue colors with you when they are nice and slicked off I am not going to send in pictures of a baby buffalo. It's also not easy getting decent pictures of them without any help either. I keep my foals though.
On another note, do you think some of them are at the association but are delayed? Good Lord when I sent in for the previous years foal it took forever between the association and DNA what not. While in my case some of last year's foals might be delayed, what about the ones from all of the previous years? All I have to do is look at my SBR history and it tells me if there has been a foal registered from the mating or not. I was just surprised at how many older ones, that I KNOW were born, some of which are even being ridden, were never registered. Especially when our stud is eligible for so many breeders incentives. It makes me question spending the literal thousands of dollars every year that we spend to keep studs enrolled, when so many babies are never even followed through with.
I know quite a few stallions in our area that used to be paid into different incentives and they no longer are. Makes me wonder if its because of the reasons you mentioned. Its a lot of money to fork out. Are they using these colts mainly as ranch horses so they don't need them registered? You'd think for resale they'd want papers. I'm still really blown away that you've got so many not registered. That just doesn't make sense especially when you like so many other stallion owners only AI - that's a heck of an expense to have in a foal and then have a grade? Its still a nice foal but grade nontheless. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | CYA Ranch - 2014-02-25 10:11 PM know quite a few stallions in our area that used to be paid into different incentives and they no longer are. Makes me wonder if its because of the reasons you mentioned. Its a lot of money to fork out. Are they using these colts mainly as ranch horses so they don't need them registered? You'd think for resale they'd want papers. I'm still really blown away that you've got so many not registered. That just doesn't make sense especially when you like so many other stallion owners only AI - that's a heck of an expense to have in a foal and then have a grade? Its still a nice foal but grade nontheless.
I honestly do not know. Some of them are rodeo folks, some are ranch folks that probably really don't care about the papers. Just makes you wonder. Most all of my futurity clients and breeding-to-sell clients have registered their babies and paid into the incentives.
We are finally able to afford to keep more foals back every year for ourselves, so if nothing else the incentives will pay off for me when I finally get to run something that we've raised. Or at least I hope. My luck with getting horses grown up and ready to run seems to be not so good the last several years. |
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 Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | I don't breed with that being said the only way I would wait over six months is if I had a colt that kept changing colours or if I didn't know what colour he'd turn. With that being said, I register/transfer everything. I have a couple horses that are still in my name that I sold. It ****es me off because I want to know where they ended up. |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | bccanchaser16 - 2014-02-25 10:31 PM
I don't breed with that being said the only way I would wait over six months is if I had a colt that kept changing colours or if I didn't know what colour he'd turn. With that being said, I register/transfer everything. I have a couple horses that are still in my name that I sold. It ****es me off because I want to know where they ended up.
My last foal I waited till close to the 6 month mark because I didnt know what color to put down. She went from lt sorrel to deep dark chestnut so I reg her chestnut.....then she turned sorrel again. Uggg. I`ll see what this summer brings. Might have to change her papers. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | CYA Ranch - 2014-02-25 10:48 PM bccanchaser16 - 2014-02-25 10:31 PM I don't breed with that being said the only way I would wait over six months is if I had a colt that kept changing colours or if I didn't know what colour he'd turn. With that being said, I register/transfer everything. I have a couple horses that are still in my name that I sold. It ****es me off because I want to know where they ended up. My last foal I waited till close to the 6 month mark because I didnt know what color to put down. She went from lt sorrel to deep dark chestnut so I reg her chestnut.....then she turned sorrel again. Uggg. I`ll see what this summer brings. Might have to change her papers.
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | Registering when they are foals probably the cheapest part of having a foal and should be IMO considered part of your breeding costs. As you have seen in previous conversations their value is increased and the ease at which you can sell them will go up with Registration. With the incentive on the price of registration it is almost prohibitive to register them when they are older. |
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| In tx/ok the big fat ropers that are sitting on their brains are the most likely arena event people NOT TO REGISTER their babies .... lol |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | I am a procrastinator. My colt, I would run across his app and think "Man I have to send those off tomorrow." put them in a spot so I would know just where they were... and then a couple of months later I would repeat the process. He was 2 by the time I finally got him registered. It is horrible, I know. |
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 Living in Denial and Loving it
Posts: 1555
Location: minnesota | I'm a buyer, not a breeder. I have bought several young horses that were registered by the owner of the mare. I really had no idea that it was done any other way.
Much to my surprise when I picked up a weanling in 2012 and was handed some papers by the breeder and told to "make sure I get her registered" I was VERY irritated, as all of her stock was advertised as registered AQHA. That particular horse is still not registered. And on the contrary to what several judgmental people may think, I am neither lazy nor stupid.
I just simply forgot. And since then I have misplaced that particular paperwork. Not that it matters anyway. She will live with me for life. And if she does go anywhere else papers just won't be a factor. I have never sold any of my horses. I have rehomed a couple, but only for their betterment.
I also bought another weanling this spring and the same thing happened. I will register this one, maybe, as I have tucked the paperwork in a safe place and one day I might remember to pull it out.
The papers on all of my horses are really just useless pieces of paper. They add nothing to their worth, my horses are family, and their "worth" is not measured in dollars. I'm not in the selling business. All of my horses are bought on conformation and temperament. So before you start name calling, try thinking outside the box. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
| I don't breed but I guess if you had a CLONE, you couldn't register! For the life of me, I can't think of ANY other good reason to NOT register one! |
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 Former Hockey Smacker Player
Posts: 5095
Location: Texas Baby!! | I struggle to understand why someone would go through the absolute HELL of getting a baby on the ground healthy and alive and not register it!!!! That BLOWS my mind!!!! |
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Expert
Posts: 2121
Location: The Great Northwest | rockinas - 2014-02-26 6:19 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-02-25 8:59 AM I think a lot more die than a person thinks. I register just about as soon as they are born so most are already papered when they die. I know we lost one that was stepped on while still on the mare, one as a yearling that got cast in the night, one was struck by lightning, one died at 2 weeks before it was reg though, just laid down and died. And last summer I had to put one down that had some joint issue...oh and another one a few years ago that was bit by a rattle snake. I'm pretty small time breeder with no more than 10 mares at any time. That is some really rotten luck!!!!
While I know that some will die, I also know of a few, some even being ridden, that have never been papered.
A few months ago, I saw a horse sired by one of our stallions being advertised as a futurity prospect and eligible for breeders incentives. Since we are not a huge operation, I remembered shipping the semen for that particular colt's dam. When I looked the horse up on the AQHA website, at the time, he had never been registered. Maybe he has been since but at that point it was going to cost a lot of money to get it registered.
I don't know how a grade horse can be eligible for breeders futurity incentives since most of them require papers of some sort to enroll.
I think these incentive programs are going to get a lot of those not registering to think again on the money they will miss! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | While I hope to get a few minutes to read all of this thread, I admit I haven't yet. I apologize if this has been said already.
I do register all our foals. I try to get them done before it's too expensive and always end up battling the websites at the last minute . . . . I even decided that registering foals early was going to be my New Year's resolution this year. Ha! Wish me luck!
In addition to the obvious advantages for the foal, there is another reason I register foals. If you skip registering foals then your mare's production record has years that are blank. If you want to sell your mare, those blank years are a problem. We don't buy mares with lots of open years . . . cuz we need mares that have foals regularily. Even if you think you will never sell your mare . . . none of us know what awaits us in this life and you might want to or have to.
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Expert
Posts: 2121
Location: The Great Northwest | I bought two young stallions from a sale 12 years ago. They were 6 months and not registered just had the applications. I was in the mind set that heck they're going to be geldings and never registered them! :( I have learned a lot with the incentive programs that it is cheaper to just get them registered raise or buy them. The value these days are in the registered horse just a ranch horse or not...think to the future. The mares from these two geldings have passed but these two off-springs are nice geldings. The one would be bringing extra dollars if it didn't cost a lot of $$$'s to regerster and pay the incentive fund penalty now! :( |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| Ashton94 - 2014-02-25 10:06 AM
I bought a 3 yo (2009 ) mare in July 2012 with the intentions of running her. The next January I found out she was pregnant. I called the guy I bought her from & he said they did breed her but she never checked in foal. We did the DNA test, took pics, & sent the $ to get her registered but we can't proceed without the breeders signature & for some reason, he wont sign. He wont return my calls or letters. AQHA has contacted him but still nothing.... She's such a nice filly. It's really frustrating.
Here's her pedigree-
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/chromed+out+bunny
Have you tried filling out the online mare report? I had this same issue and it forced the stallion owner to have to fill out the online breeder's report. |
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Do you register the foals you breed?