|
|
 Expert
Posts: 1718
  
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Spin off from the other thread that got zapped. I was interested to see the direction the other thread was going and wondering everyone's opinion on the format of the American. I, for one, enjoyed seeing all of that talent in one venue. Should rodeo stick to tradition with barrels, and other events, being only for one gender? Who would like to see events open to both genders? |
|
| |
|
 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Question. Since the PRCA is open to all presently I assume that you are asking should the WPRA open up their membership to all. PRCA does not offer barrel racing WPRA runs them in conjunction with PRCA. It really is up to the Rodeo promoter to choose which association they go with and who's rules they use. RFD American did not use PRCA or WPRA rules. So in one since rodeos are open to all presently under some associations but not under the WPRA. |
|
| |
|
I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | I went on record as saying many years ago that if they opened rodeo barrel racing to men, I would be there cheering the guys on, just like I do the girls. I would not be running up the alley though. That having been said, local, open jackpot rodeos, I have been known to run in, but as much as the NFR would be cool, even if I could make the run at it, I've just been raised with a different view of rodeo. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Until I read it in the other thread, I was under the impression that the Professional Rodeo COWBOY's Association was a men's association. Having the new information (which is why i love these discussions) I was careful to word my post accordingly. Sorry it wasn't clear. But, no. I was interested in seeing who prefers the traditional rodeo format and who liked seeing the change (basically). And, of course, interested in seeing the discussions that come out of it. |
|
| |
|
  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | jbhoot - 2014-03-03 11:41 PM
Question. Since the PRCA is open to all presently I assume that you are asking should the WPRA open up their membership to all. PRCA does not offer barrel racing WPRA runs them in conjunction with PRCA. It really is up to the Rodeo promoter to choose which association they go with and who's rules they use. RFD American did not use PRCA or WPRA rules. So in one since rodeos are open to all presently under some associations but not under the WPRA.
Ok. So where is it stated that the PRCA is open to women also?
I had no idea the allowed women into the PRCA. That's why the WPRA was started, wasn't it? To allow girls to rodeo in any event they want?
I mean, it's called the Pro Rodeo CowBOYS Assn. So I figured since they refer to all card holders as "he, him, his or cowboy(s)" that it was only open to men. Did they amend the rules and I missed it?
Edited by hlynn 2014-03-03 11:09 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | I think it should be open for both, but at the same time I think women should be able to compete in any other event also.
|
|
| |
|
 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I'm older so I would like to see it staying traditional. There is just so much changes that is going on with the U.S and I would hate to see this happen to our Rodeos, needs to stay the same. There is enough of Barrel races that are huge, with awesome pay outs they we women love sharing with the men no problems there  |
|
| |
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think the toothpaste is out of the tube, as far as the American is concerned. They won't allow men, and then turn around and ban them. This will make the discussion more common and the debate will become more serious. Most women who are serious competitors won't say that men are better or have some advantage over women.
If anything, women hold an advantage, generally speaking, because they usually weigh less.
There was a time when Blacks were allowed to only play in amateur and negro leagues. On the surface, the obvious implied reason was because they were Black, but within inner circles, another huge reason was because they posed a threat to whites in terms of competitive edge. In on sense this is apples and oranges, but there's still a pretty good analogy.
If woman happens to be an exceptional team roper, should she be banned from competing at the highest level because of her gender?
You ladies have to decide which way you want it.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | I don't think everybody is going to get together and decide they all want it one way... Ain't gonna happen. |
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This "Poll" (taken from 99% women) gives me an idea for a new a Chick-Fil-A commercial. Ask a herd of Holstein cows which they prefer, beef burgers or chicken sandwiches? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-03 11:52 PM
This "Poll" (taken from 99% women) gives me an idea for a new a Chick-Fil-A commercial. Ask a herd of Holstein cows which they prefer, beef burgers or chicken sandwiches?
Well, it was meant to be a poll from barrel racers. Heck, you're a guy and you're on here! Anyway, the herd seemed to be in favor of the guys competing from what I was seeing in the other thread.
But, I am truly interested in seeing honest opinions on this. I don't want anyone to avoid commenting for fear of being called a heifer. Please let's not let the thread get all nasty.
|
|
| |
|
Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| hlynn - 2014-03-03 11:08 PM
jbhoot - 2014-03-03 11:41 PM
Question. Since the PRCA is open to all presently I assume that you are asking should the WPRA open up their membership to all. PRCA does not offer barrel racing WPRA runs them in conjunction with PRCA. It really is up to the Rodeo promoter to choose which association they go with and who's rules they use. RFD American did not use PRCA or WPRA rules. So in one since rodeos are open to all presently under some associations but not under the WPRA.
Ok. So where is it stated that the PRCA is open to women also?
I had no idea the allowed women into the PRCA. That's why the WPRA was started, wasn't it? To allow girls to rodeo in any event they want?
I mean, it's called the Pro Rodeo CowBOYS Assn. So I figured since they refer to all card holders as "he, him, his or cowboy (s )" that it was only open to men. Did they amend the rules and I missed it?
Under the bylaws B1.O.1 No discrimination. And under B1.O.3. Gender. The way I read them it is open to any one that is 18 years old and has a S.S. card. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | jbhoot - 2014-03-04 12:08 AM
hlynn - 2014-03-03 11:08 PM
jbhoot - 2014-03-03 11:41 PM
Question. Since the PRCA is open to all presently I assume that you are asking should the WPRA open up their membership to all. PRCA does not offer barrel racing WPRA runs them in conjunction with PRCA. It really is up to the Rodeo promoter to choose which association they go with and who's rules they use. RFD American did not use PRCA or WPRA rules. So in one since rodeos are open to all presently under some associations but not under the WPRA.
Ok. So where is it stated that the PRCA is open to women also?
I had no idea the allowed women into the PRCA. That's why the WPRA was started, wasn't it? To allow girls to rodeo in any event they want?
I mean, it's called the Pro Rodeo CowBOYS Assn. So I figured since they refer to all card holders as "he, him, his or cowboy (s )" that it was only open to men. Did they amend the rules and I missed it?
Under the bylaws B1.O.1 No discrimination. And under B1.O.3. Gender. The way I read them it is open to any one that is 18 years old and has a S.S. card.
Thanks for the info, jbhoot... I wonder why we don't see more women in the other events. Is it just tradition, or do the women who try get some hostility for it? Would love to hear from some women who have tried it. I also wonder why PRCA hasn't included barrel racing since the other events are open? |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Everyone should be allowed to compete equally. Women in roping and rough stock. Men in barrels. I would love to see the kind of woman to qualify in steer wrestling. If the men are any indication, those will be some stout ladies for sure. I would love to see an even playing field across the board.
Guys have more strength so they are favored in rough stock and steer wrestling. Ladies are more petite so they are favored in barrels. And weight plays a HUGE factor in speed. Learned this when the 3/4D mare we sold is now winning the 1D with a youth rider. And upper body strength is needed for the rough stock. The ladies will have to play by the men's rules. No two hands in bareback or bulls. No holding the pommel in saddle bronc. Everyone plays the same game. |
|
| |
|
Mrs. Troy
Location: western Nebraska | The barrel racing qualifiers were open to anyone with a $500 bill in their pocket. I would like to see how many men entered and how many kids under 18. I know several woman that went to several of them trying to get qualified and several men that did.
So out of the 10 that got to run at the American there was one man that made it that far and no kids under 18.
They all had the same chance. |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Nita - 2014-03-04 1:13 AM
jbhoot - 2014-03-04 12:08 AM
hlynn - 2014-03-03 11:08 PM
jbhoot - 2014-03-03 11:41 PM
Question. Since the PRCA is open to all presently I assume that you are asking should the WPRA open up their membership to all. PRCA does not offer barrel racing WPRA runs them in conjunction with PRCA. It really is up to the Rodeo promoter to choose which association they go with and who's rules they use. RFD American did not use PRCA or WPRA rules. So in one since rodeos are open to all presently under some associations but not under the WPRA.
Ok. So where is it stated that the PRCA is open to women also?
I had no idea the allowed women into the PRCA. That's why the WPRA was started, wasn't it? To allow girls to rodeo in any event they want?
I mean, it's called the Pro Rodeo CowBOYS Assn. So I figured since they refer to all card holders as "he, him, his or cowboy (s )" that it was only open to men. Did they amend the rules and I missed it?
Under the bylaws B1.O.1 No discrimination. And under B1.O.3. Gender. The way I read them it is open to any one that is 18 years old and has a S.S. card.
Thanks for the info, jbhoot... I wonder why we don't see more women in the other events. Is it just tradition, or do the women who try get some hostility for it? Would love to hear from some women who have tried it. I also wonder why PRCA hasn't included barrel racing since the other events are open?
I don't think it has anything to do with hostility. It's just a very small amount of women even do these events. And even fewer can haul the miles down the road needed to be in the big leagues. Just like 80% of the barrel racers in the world are not on the road to the NFR, most rough stock and roping ladies aren't either.
Its a numbers game. There just aren't many out there compared to the men out there competing. That's all.
Edited by hlynn 2014-03-04 12:23 AM
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
| I honestly do not understand the big deal about letting men run barrels on the larger scale rodeos. Yes traditionally barrel racing has been a women's sport, but traditionally team roping is dominated by men yet you do not see people speaking out against women roping(although we haven't seen one at the NFR yet I have seen women competing at the professional level). Plus I think I remember reading that the American was hoping to be a rodeo different than any other and they accomplished that on many levels. Personally I think it will help the stereotype that I hear all too often "only women are allowed to run barrels." IMHO if you can ride you can ride...but thats just my two cents |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | I don't understand why it's a big deal, either. I have heard the argument in the past (can't remember where) that male barrel racers aren't allowed to compete in the Super Bowl of their sport. It affects them in terms of sponsors, name recognition, income, etc. Heck, a few weeks ago I'd never heard of Clint Sherlin. I'd certainly want to sign up if I saw a clinic of his today. Or, if I saw a horse trained by him, or one he had for sale, I think it would increase its value. As far as professional rodeo is concerned, I think it should be open to all. But, from looking at the poll results so far, looks like there is a silent majority that would like to see it stay traditional. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
| I completely agree with you on that point as well! It seems to be there are only a few male names that are well known on a national basis(eg. Ed Wright and Lance Graves) yet a good bunch of very talented horsemen in the sport. Not singling out either of the men I mentioned just the only two names that I could think of on a national level when I know that there are more, like Clint, who could easily become a household name as many of the girls are. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 133
| I was surprised Troy Crumrine didn't try to enter the American.He trained Mullberry Canyon Moon who won a couple of goes at the NFR.This cat can ride. |
|
| |
|
Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I.COULD.CARE.LESS! |
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| Nita - 2014-03-04 12:13 AM jbhoot - 2014-03-04 12:08 AM hlynn - 2014-03-03 11:08 PM jbhoot - 2014-03-03 11:41 PMQuestion. Since the PRCA is open to all presently I assume that you are asking should the WPRA open up their membership to all. PRCA does not offer barrel racing WPRA runs them in conjunction with PRCA. It really is up to the Rodeo promoter to choose which association they go with and who's rules they use. RFD American did not use PRCA or WPRA rules. So in one since rodeos are open to all presently under some associations but not under the WPRA. Ok. So where is it stated that the PRCA is open to women also?I had no idea the allowed women into the PRCA. That's why the WPRA was started, wasn't it? To allow girls to rodeo in any event they want?I mean, it's called the Pro Rodeo CowBOYS Assn. So I figured since they refer to all card holders as "he, him, his or cowboy (s )" that it was only open to men. Did they amend the rules and I missed it? Under the bylaws B1.O.1 No discrimination. And under B1.O.3. Gender. The way I read them it is open to any one that is 18 years old and has a S.S. card. Thanks for the info, jbhoot... I wonder why we don't see more women in the other events. Is it just tradition, or do the women who try get some hostility for it? Would love to hear from some women who have tried it. I also wonder why PRCA hasn't included barrel racing since the other events are open?
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-04 5:35 AM
|
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| hlynn - 2014-03-04 12:13 AMEveryone should be allowed to compete equally. Women in roping and rough stock. Men in barrels. I would love to see the kind of woman to qualify in steer wrestling. If the men are any indication, those will be some stout ladies for sure. I would love to see an even playing field across the board. Guys have more strength so they are favored in rough stock and steer wrestling. Ladies are more petite so they are favored in barrels. And weight plays a HUGE factor in speed. Learned this when the 3/4D mare we sold is now winning the 1D with a youth rider. And upper body strength is needed for the rough stock. The ladies will have to play by the men's rules. No two hands in bareback or bulls. No holding the pommel in saddle bronc. Everyone plays the same game. How many women do you think would compete as you describe? How many women do you know that are in rodeo who would do that? Ladies aren't favored over men in the barrel racing because of size, strength, or talent.
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-04 5:44 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Saint Stacey
| Didn't the PRCA try to take over the WPRA a few years back? Or was that simply the lawsuit the one male barrel racer brought against the WPRA?
I seem to remember a huge blow up about the PRCA and the WPRA over the barrel race at the NFR. |
|
| |
|
 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Southtxponygirl - 2014-03-03 11:14 PM I'm older so I would like to see it staying traditional. There is just so much changes that is going on with the U.S and I would hate to see this happen to our Rodeos, needs to stay the same. There is enough of Barrel races that are huge, with awesome pay outs they we women love sharing with the men no problems there
I'm agreeing with Roxie |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | SKM - 2014-03-04 7:18 AM
Didn't the PRCA try to take over the WPRA a few years back? Or was that simply the lawsuit the one male barrel racer brought against the WPRA?
I seem to remember a huge blow up about the PRCA and the WPRA over the barrel race at the NFR.
Yup. The PWBRA wasn't it? In 2009 or so I want to say.
I'm not saying there are women out there capable of doing the other events. Just like they're aren't many women capable of combat roles. But everyone wants to see them have a chance, don't they? Then why not the men in barrels? |
|
| |
|
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | SKM - 2014-03-04 6:18 AM Didn't the PRCA try to take over the WPRA a few years back? Or was that simply the lawsuit the one male barrel racer brought against the WPRA?
I seem to remember a huge blow up about the PRCA and the WPRA over the barrel race at the NFR.
Yes the PRCA did take the barrel racing for a short time. The whole thing was riddled with lawsuit after lawsuit and in the end, the WPRA got the barrel racing back. It was short lived.
The lawsuit brought on by a male over the barrel racing was 20+ maybe even 30 years ago. It was brought by Lance Graves sueing the WPRA and he lost that suit. He sued for loss of wages and you cant claim loss of wages when their is no base pay. Any time you run down that alley there is no gaurantee you are going to make money. Now, HAD he sued for discrimination, he would probably win. Especially today.
|
|
| |
|
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | sodapop - 2014-03-04 5:31 AM Nita - 2014-03-04 12:13 AM jbhoot - 2014-03-04 12:08 AM hlynn - 2014-03-03 11:08 PM jbhoot - 2014-03-03 11:41 PMQuestion. Since the PRCA is open to all presently I assume that you are asking should the WPRA open up their membership to all. PRCA does not offer barrel racing WPRA runs them in conjunction with PRCA. It really is up to the Rodeo promoter to choose which association they go with and who's rules they use. RFD American did not use PRCA or WPRA rules. So in one since rodeos are open to all presently under some associations but not under the WPRA. Ok. So where is it stated that the PRCA is open to women also?I had no idea the allowed women into the PRCA. That's why the WPRA was started, wasn't it? To allow girls to rodeo in any event they want?I mean, it's called the Pro Rodeo CowBOYS Assn. So I figured since they refer to all card holders as "he, him, his or cowboy (s )" that it was only open to men. Did they amend the rules and I missed it? Under the bylaws B1.O.1 No discrimination. And under B1.O.3. Gender. The way I read them it is open to any one that is 18 years old and has a S.S. card. Thanks for the info, jbhoot... I wonder why we don't see more women in the other events. Is it just tradition, or do the women who try get some hostility for it? Would love to hear from some women who have tried it. I also wonder why PRCA hasn't included barrel racing since the other events are open? I put that out there about the PRCA & why they don't just have barrel racing in their association. The PRCA obviously doesn't want men in the barrel racing or they would make it happen since they are really a man's association. If they did, there's always a possibility one year you would see an NFR without a woman in it. There's a much better chance for a man and several of them to qualify in barrel racing than there is for one woman to qualify in any of the other events. Do you all know lots of women roughstock riders that could physically go to the number of rodeos it takes to qualify for the NFR let alone have the physical ability to ride at that level? How many women want to steer wrestle or could physically do that at 70+ rodeos a year to qualify? The comments that each event should be open to everyone just doesn't really hold since very few women could or would compete in those events. There used to be all women rodeos with all the events except I think steer wrestling & even those roughstock events had modifications like riding two handed....why don't they still have them? Not enough contestants. I have no dog in this fight, just things to consider.
Most women dont go compete in the other events BUT, they CAN if they so chose. The door is open there but barrel racing it is not open. Thats the only event. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2678
Location: Mi | I am also going to be the odd man out. I beleive rodeos need to stay with CowGIRLS Barrel Racing, its a tradition, there are six other event, seven if you count the steer tripping for the men to compete in, do they really need another?! Women athletes in any sport do not make near the money male athletes do, nor do they have the amount of sports or opportunities male athletes do. Why take something else away from them! Men can barrel race anywehre else, and run for as much and in many cases more at the futurities and big barrel races as they can at a rodeo, do they really need to be able to enter the rodeos too?! I'm not against competing against men at barrel races etc, and I'm not against men being able to compete at barrel races etc. I just beleive they should stay out of the rodeos. Just my opinion! |
|
| |
|
 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | CYA Ranch - 2014-03-05 6:27 AM
Southtxponygirl - 2014-03-03 11:14 PM I'm older so I would like to see it staying traditional. There is just so much changes that is going on with the U.S and I would hate to see this happen to our Rodeos, needs to stay the same. There is enough of Barrel races that are huge, with awesome pay outs they we women love sharing with the men no problems there
Im with you ladies 110%.....M |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| I just wanted to be clear that the PRCA is open for ANYONE OF ANY GENDER to enter ANY event. The WPRA is an invited guest at the rodeos. As for the WPRA they are able to exist as is because they are a Women's Only association. No different than Indian Rodeo Association or High School Rodeo. There are certain rules you have to be within in order to compete in each of those association.
|
|
| |
|
 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | I liked that they American was nothing but an open horse race. Perhaps there would be fewer cat fights and the ground might get more attention at rodeos if they also let the guys in. There's really no advantage to either gender in barrel racing. Open it up and let the best team win. |
|
| |
|
 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Open it up to all. I understand why people disagree, but heck, Danica is running in NASCAR, which I thought would never happen. Ashley Force and her sisters have beaten all the boys in drag racing, so who cares.
I still don't think the number of men will outweigh the women running. Most men don't want to run in rodeos for fear of being teased, and I don't know about your areas, but women still outnumber the men at local jackpots. Men are good riders, and good barrel racers. I've seen some awesome women team ropers too. So really, why not? |
|
| |
|
 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | For those of you who don't quite understand the rules used at The American.......
There was NO one set of rules (ie. PRCA/WPRA) used. The Rough stock riders were run under a rough stock association rules (like the NO "mark out" rule being used). The bull riding was run under the PBR rules and the barrel racing was run under the BBR rules....THAT is the only reason that men (and under 18 year olds) were allowed to compete.
Additionally, every man in the U.S was allowed to compete to qualify.....how many did? Apparently, most were not that concerned with being able to run at a rodeo. |
|
| |
|
I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | I think it should be seperate. For me barrel racing is a womans sport, sorry if I anger anyone but that is how I feel. I have nothing against men, I am married to one, but some sports are for women and some for men period! |
|
| |
|
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | NJJ - 2014-03-04 8:44 AM For those of you who don't quite understand the rules used at The American.......
There was NO one set of rules (ie. PRCA/WPRA) used. The Rough stock riders were run under a rough stock association rules (like the NO "mark out" rule being used). The bull riding was run under the PBR rules and the barrel racing was run under the BBR rules....THAT is the only reason that men (and under 18 year olds) were allowed to compete.
Additionally, every man in the U.S was allowed to compete to qualify.....how many did? Apparently, most were not that concerned with being able to run at a rodeo.
I saw where quite a few of the tougher guys entered the qualifiers, but didn't get qualified. I wouldn't think that they entered 'because they wanted to run at a rodeo', doubt anyone cares....but entered to have a shot at $1,000,000. |
|
| |
|
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | angelica - 2014-03-04 8:45 AM I think it should be seperate. For me barrel racing is a womans sport, sorry if I anger anyone but that is how I feel. I have nothing against men, I am married to one, but some sports are for women and some for men period!
So do you feel that women should be able to team rope?
We would all !@#$%^&*()_)(*&^%$#@#$% if they told us we couldn't enter something because we're women. Kinda hypocritical to turn around and say, 'only girls get to play'. |
|
| |
|
 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | NJJ - 2014-03-04 7:44 AM For those of you who don't quite understand the rules used at The American.......
There was NO one set of rules (ie. PRCA/WPRA) used. The Rough stock riders were run under a rough stock association rules (like the NO "mark out" rule being used). The bull riding was run under the PBR rules and the barrel racing was run under the BBR rules....THAT is the only reason that men (and under 18 year olds) were allowed to compete.
Additionally, every man in the U.S was allowed to compete to qualify.....how many did? Apparently, most were not that concerned with being able to run at a rodeo. Thank you. 
I don't know why we're discussing this - other than it's something to talk about. It's comparing apples and oranges. The American is completely separate from PRCA and WPRA. They designed it that way, it's an OPEN rodeo. Any open rodeo I have been to allowed men in barrel racing as well as women in the roping and even rough stock events. They didn't get any of those entries, but they were allowed. The only thing that had anything to do with those associations were the invites. Which I think the PRCA and WPRA should have had to qualify too. Or at least only take the top 5, maybe.... It's a chance for those who don't have the ability to haul enough to make the NFR or go to the bigger money rodeos to compete for that amount of money. I loved the fact that there were some "no names" (for lack of a better term) who made it to the shootout.
As for men in the WPRA....... I will continue to keep that to myself.
Edited by rodeomom13 2014-03-04 9:02 AM
|
|
| |
|
 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | rodeomom13 - 2014-03-04 7:00 AM NJJ - 2014-03-04 7:44 AM For those of you who don't quite understand the rules used at The American.......
There was NO one set of rules (ie. PRCA/WPRA) used. The Rough stock riders were run under a rough stock association rules (like the NO "mark out" rule being used). The bull riding was run under the PBR rules and the barrel racing was run under the BBR rules....THAT is the only reason that men (and under 18 year olds) were allowed to compete.
Additionally, every man in the U.S was allowed to compete to qualify.....how many did? Apparently, most were not that concerned with being able to run at a rodeo. Thank you.
I don't know why we're discussing this - other than it's something to talk about. It's comparing apples and oranges. The American is completely separate from PRCA and WPRA. They designed it that way, it's an OPEN rodeo. Any open rodeo I have been to allowed men in barrel racing as well as women in the roping and even rough stock events. They didn't get any of those entries, but they were allowed. The only thing that had anything to do with those associations were the invites. Which I think the PRCA and WPRA should have had to qualify too. Or at least only take the top 5, maybe.... It's a chance for those who don't have the ability to haul enough to make the NFR or go to the bigger money rodeos to compete for that amount of money. I loved the fact that there were some "no names" (for lack of a better term) who made it to the shootout.
As for men in the WPRA....... I will continue to keep that to myself.
Thank you both! |
|
| |
|
 Leggs
Posts: 4680
Location: lexington KY | rodeomom13 - 2014-03-04 10:00 AM NJJ - 2014-03-04 7:44 AM For those of you who don't quite understand the rules used at The American.......
There was NO one set of rules (ie. PRCA/WPRA) used. The Rough stock riders were run under a rough stock association rules (like the NO "mark out" rule being used). The bull riding was run under the PBR rules and the barrel racing was run under the BBR rules....THAT is the only reason that men (and under 18 year olds) were allowed to compete.
Additionally, every man in the U.S was allowed to compete to qualify.....how many did? Apparently, most were not that concerned with being able to run at a rodeo. Thank you.
I don't know why we're discussing this - other than it's something to talk about. It's comparing apples and oranges. The American is completely separate from PRCA and WPRA. They designed it that way, it's an OPEN rodeo. Any open rodeo I have been to allowed men in barrel racing as well as women in the roping and even rough stock events. They didn't get any of those entries, but they were allowed. The only thing that had anything to do with those associations were the invites. Which I think the PRCA and WPRA should have had to qualify too. Or at least only take the top 5, maybe.... It's a chance for those who don't have the ability to haul enough to make the NFR or go to the bigger money rodeos to compete for that amount of money. I loved the fact that there were some "no names" (for lack of a better term) who made it to the shootout.
As for men in the WPRA....... I will continue to keep that to myself.
Thank you!!  |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | jock12 - 2014-03-04 3:38 AM
I was surprised Troy Crumrine didn't try to enter the American.He trained Mullberry Canyon Moon who won a couple of goes at the NFR.This cat can ride.
Just look at who trained Movin. And Stingray. And a few other stellar barrel horses. It wasn't a woman if that gives any clue.
I think next year we will see a lot more men competing at the qualifiers. LG said he was unable to this year but plans to enter year. I think a lot more guys will be the same way
And saying barrel racing is a girls 'sport' is just crazy. Guys are at the top of the game in every aspect but rodeo. I don't doubt there would be some top guys in the NFR if they were allowed to compete. The men are just as fierce as the women. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | hlynn - 2014-03-04 9:45 AM Guys are at the top of the game in every aspect but rodeo. I don't doubt there would be some top guys in the NFR if they were allowed to compete. The men are just as fierce as the women. SO....
IF the MEN "dominate" as you have repeatedly said....
WHY were they NOT qualified???
WHY didn't the ones who did try...... not qualify?????
WHERE were ALL of them????
This was their "golden opportunity" to shine........
Edited by NJJ 2014-03-04 9:52 AM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I have a feeling more men will enter the American next year, now that the precedent has been set. I'd like to see more men participating in barrel racing in general, wouldn't all of you? The more competition, the better, IMO. It would be nice to go to jackpots where at least 10% of riders are men. I am actually surprised that on a site that is comprised of 99% women, the opinions on this are as evenly split as they are. I've been to jackpots where I was the only man entered, out of 80-100. As much as I revel in the idea of having all those beautiful women to myself, I'd sure like to have a few more men around. I have to also admit that I am a little self conscious of the fact that there is a certain "stigma" associated with men who barrel race, among some people. As idiotic as that seems to me, it's always in the back of my mind. I've entered a few amateur rodeos, and my biggest thrill was a making it back to the perf at a Bulls n Barrels, where I very narrowly missed winning the whole thing. Even then I was very self-conscious because I was the only man to make it back and got a chance to run before a packed crowd. It didn't help that I wore a pink shirt, I suppose! LOL Still, I think any time you open up competition to more competition, you tend to elevate the quality of any sport. I love the idea of maintaining "traditions", but not at the expense of shutting someone out because of their gender any more than the color of their skin, religion, or sexual orientation. Women have always had a special connection with horses and they have always been excellent horsemen. Allowing men to compete won't diminish that one bit. In fact, as in any other endeavor where competition is involved, the caliber and excellence will undoubtedly improve. Some on this thread have already pointed out that a lot of top level men tried to qualify for the American, yet only one made it to the finals. The people who paid good money to fill that stadium on Sunday sure seemed to like Clint Sherlin when he ran, judging from the loud cheering crowd. This is a good thing!
|
|
| |
|
The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | There is room for both venues. It truly is that simple. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | fatchance - 2014-03-04 10:03 AM There is room for both venues. It truly is that simple.
I agree, FC. This was a breakthrough, in my opinion. I don't see men's participation in barrel racing as a drag on the popularity of rodeo, but time will tell. I don't see it as a significant threat to women either. |
|
| |
|
 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | fatchance - 2014-03-04 10:03 AM There is room for both venues. It truly is that simple.
That's my thought too , so I didn't vote. I think the WPRA should stay a women's-only association, but I love that men were given the chance to qualify for the American. There is definitely room for doing it both ways. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | angelica - 2014-03-04 8:45 AM I think it should be seperate. For me barrel racing is a womans sport, sorry if I anger anyone but that is how I feel. I have nothing against men, I am married to one, but some sports are for women and some for men period!
Really? Why? Just because? So are you saying men shouldn't barrel race? |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1100
Location: Southeastern Idaho | I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair. |
|
| |
|
Leggs
Posts: 4680
Location: lexington KY | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-04 11:12 AM fatchance - 2014-03-04 10:03 AM There is room for both venues. It truly is that simple.
I agree 100%, I love the tradition behind the WPRA and I see nothing wrong with keeping that tradition. However I loved that The American was different, it gave everyone a chance. There is room for both. |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | NJJ - 2014-03-04 10:51 AM
hlynn - 2014-03-04 9:45 AM Guys are at the top of the game in every aspect but rodeo. I don't doubt there would be some top guys in the NFR if they were allowed to compete. The men are just as fierce as the women. SO....
IF the MEN "dominate" as you have repeatedly said....
WHY were they NOT qualified???
WHY didn't the ones who did try...... not qualify?????
WHERE were ALL of them????
This was their "golden opportunity" to shine........
Ugh. Here we go.
I would think most of the guys went to Mississippi to qualify. Three of the top ten qualifiers in that race were men. They placed one, two and 6th respectively in that qualifier. So that means that the one qualifier that was in the area where I said the men tend to 'dominate' was indeed won by a man. And second was a man. And 6th too.
(Did Kebo compete in the semis? I don't remember seeing his name on the draw but I may have just missed it.)
Anyways, I believe Mississippi was the place the most men were entered into the American side pot. And that's where you saw three men qualify.
You'll see more next year at the qualifiers I'm sure. A lot of people in general have caught that fever just from watching it.
Women are the predominant force in barrels. But here in the southeast, you'll see plenty of men at the top of the leaderboard week in and week out.
Edited by hlynn 2014-03-04 10:31 AM
|
|
| |
|
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:16 AM I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair.
Women can and do hold PRCA cards.
karen |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Honestly I think they should give some of the top guys who are willing to try it a chance at running with the girls. See if they can fill their permits and haul down the road with the rest of the crowd. It's the only way we'll ever really know.
What have they got to lose? If the guys can't hang, the anti-guys in rodeo sentiment wins. If they can win, then it should open up a new door to more/better competition down the road. |
|
| |
|
The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | What cracks me up about this debate each and everytime something new comes into play, is that so many are demanding equal rights for all in the rodeo world, when they should be worried about all rodeo's becoming invitational. Rodeo committee's are all about making money, and you make money by filling the stands.
If your joe blow or susie homemaker your going to get left out. Your name is not going to draw the numbers.
As with all things, there is always a bigger picture.
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1100
Location: Southeastern Idaho | Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-04 9:26 AM
luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:16 AM I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair.
Women can and do hold PRCA cards.
karen
But do they allow them to compete? I know for a fact that my sister was unable to haze for her husband in bull dogging at the pro shows. If they are allowed to compete then fine. |
|
| |
|
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:36 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-04 9:26 AM luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:16 AM I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair. Women can and do hold PRCA cards.
karen But do they allow them to compete? I know for a fact that my sister was unable to haze for her husband in bull dogging at the pro shows. If they are allowed to compete then fine.
I know a girl roped at Cheyenne this year in the team roping. She made it to the short go. |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:36 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-04 9:26 AM luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:16 AM I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair. Women can and do hold PRCA cards.
karen But do they allow them to compete? I know for a fact that my sister was unable to haze for her husband in bull dogging at the pro shows. If they are allowed to compete then fine.
Was she a PRCA member? |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1100
Location: Southeastern Idaho | Yep, he was going to buy her a card but then didn't when the office said she wouldn't be allowed to haze. This was a few years ago...if they have since changed the rule then great. I am fine with open to the world if it is truly open to the world. It would be fun to see a woman header or heeler competing at that level. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-04 10:42 AM luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:36 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-04 9:26 AM luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:16 AM I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair. Women can and do hold PRCA cards.
karen But do they allow them to compete? I know for a fact that my sister was unable to haze for her husband in bull dogging at the pro shows. If they are allowed to compete then fine.
^^^^THIS......You have to be a member. I know one lady, for sure, who hazed for her husband and several others at PRCA Rodeos. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 17
| There are many of the Open rodeo assn. in the south, and possibly IPRA( not positive) that are all one assn. in every event including the barrel race. Many of them added a men's barrel to their events, and if the rodeo committee wanted to have it , and the women's barrel race they could. Don't think many chose to have two barrel races. They also figured they could not be sued by men to include them in barrel race, as they offered one.
Edited by elmer fud 2014-03-04 10:52 AM
|
|
| |
|
Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:45 AM
Yep, he was going to buy her a card but then didn't when the office said she wouldn't be allowed to haze. This was a few years ago...if they have since changed the rule then great. I am fine with open to the world if it is truly open to the world. It would be fun to see a woman header or heeler competing at that level.
If he had checked the rules buying a card the day of the Rodeo does not fly. She would have been a permit holder and not a member. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 832
Location: Kansas (but Great Lakes member since 1978) | A woman can get her PRCA Permit and rope, haze, ride bulls or whatever and it's been that way for as long as I can remember (that's a very long time). If your friend wants to haze for her husband all she has to do is buy her PRCA Permit.
As far as men in the WPRA.... my personal opinion is no. The announcer hit it on the head when he stated that the man had more strength and could pull the horse around the barrel better than a woman can. Yes, that is very true. I'm not against men barrel racing.... I have lots of men friends that run and do and awesome job doing it but the WPRA is "Women's Professional Rodeo Association" and should stay that way. Most of the rodeo committees also feel that way. We've had lots make comments that if men were running they wouldn't have a barrel race. Now that is not a 100% of the committees but a lot of them
I feel women have a distinct disadvantage in the men's events so it's not an issue in the PRCA.... there are awesome women ropers and the team roping is probably the one event where gender isn't an issue but in all the other events women aren't as strong as men (for the most part).
Well, that's my two cents for what it is worth. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I don't see where men have any advantage over women in barrel racing. I don't buy this notion that men have an advantage because they can jerk a horse's face around or muscle a horse around a barrel. Maybe once in a great while it might help to be able to snatch a horse's head, but not very often. I do feel that women generally are at an advantage because they tend to be significantly lighter. Women competing in rodeo will always be a highlight, in my opinion, because everyone enjoys seeing a dressed up pretty woman ride a fast horse very well. A lot of people like myself believe that a woman riding a horse well is a thing of beauty. June Holeman, for example, looked beautiful to me, even at 70. That's what I'm talking about.
Anyway, this notion that men enjoy some physical advantage is a myth...especially when you take weight into account.
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | LeterBuck - 2014-03-04 1:45 AM I completely agree with you on that point as well! It seems to be there are only a few male names that are well known on a national basis(eg. Ed Wright and Lance Graves) yet a good bunch of very talented horsemen in the sport. Not singling out either of the men I mentioned just the only two names that I could think of on a national level when I know that there are more, like Clint, who could easily become a household name as many of the girls are.
Minor point here, but I'm not sure Ed Wright has ever even entered a barrel race, has he? If he has, I doubt he's done it very much. |
|
| |
|
 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | I personally would love to see more men entered. Maybe it would chill some ladies out. I personally am working quite diligently to get my boyfriend to start entering with me! |
|
| |
|
Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-04 12:26 PM I don't see where men have any advantage over women in barrel racing. I don't buy this notion that men have an advantage because they can jerk a horse's face around or muscle a horse around a barrel. Maybe once in a great while it might help to be able to snatch a horse's head, but not very often. I do feel that women generally are at an advantage because they tend to be significantly lighter. Women competing in rodeo will always be a highlight, in my opinion, because everyone enjoys seeing a dressed up pretty woman ride a fast horse very well. A lot of people like myself believe that a woman riding a horse well is a thing of beauty. June Holeman, for example, looked beautiful to me, even at 70. That's what I'm talking about.
Anyway, this notion that men enjoy some physical advantage is a myth...especially when you take weight into account.
In watching Clint's run on Sunday, one of the men commentators (not sure which one) said something to that effect, that because he is a man, he has the strength to pull his horse around the barrels. I was pretty miffed at his comment. I don't think barrel racing should be about who can pull a horse around three barrels, and I especially don't think it's a strength competition. He was way off base with that remark.
|
|
| |
|
The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-04 9:26 AM I don't see where men have any advantage over women in barrel racing. I don't buy this notion that men have an advantage because they can jerk a horse's face around or muscle a horse around a barrel. Maybe once in a great while it might help to be able to snatch a horse's head, but not very often. I do feel that women generally are at an advantage because they tend to be significantly lighter. Women competing in rodeo will always be a highlight, in my opinion, because everyone enjoys seeing a dressed up pretty woman ride a fast horse very well. A lot of people like myself believe that a woman riding a horse well is a thing of beauty. June Holeman, for example, looked beautiful to me, even at 70. That's what I'm talking about.
Anyway, this notion that men enjoy some physical advantage is a myth...especially when you take weight into account.
I hope you heard each and every man that was qualified to run at the American all said they lost weight for it. I loved it because I too get tired of hearing that weight doesn't matter. "MAYBE" it doesn't at certain levels, but "maybe" your wearing dark rose color glasses to help you see so clearly. lol
|
|
| |
|
 Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | hlynn - 2014-03-04 12:13 AM
Everyone should be allowed to compete equally. Women in roping and rough stock. Men in barrels. I would love to see the kind of woman to qualify in steer wrestling. If the men are any indication, those will be some stout ladies for sure. I would love to see an even playing field across the board.
Guys have more strength so they are favored in rough stock and steer wrestling. Ladies are more petite so they are favored in barrels. And weight plays a HUGE factor in speed. Learned this when the 3/4D mare we sold is now winning the 1D with a youth rider. And upper body strength is needed for the rough stock. The ladies will have to play by the men's rules. No two hands in bareback or bulls. No holding the pommel in saddle bronc. Everyone plays the same game.
I was just watching some top lady calf ropers the other night on TV. Their times in general were about 6 or 7 seconds slower than what I generally see the men tie. They were quick in the catch and the tie but they just could not flank the calf as fast. I watched it on RFDTV's "Women's Pro Rodeo" and it was some big championship, so these ladies knew what they were doing. Don't get me wrong, I am all for equal opporunities but sometimes, I think we just need to realize God did create men and women with different strengths and weakness. That's not knocking either gender, just human nature. |
|
| |
|
I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | Murphy - 2014-03-04 11:37 AM
HotbearLVR - 2014-03-04 12:26 PM I don't see where men have any advantage over women in barrel racing. I don't buy this notion that men have an advantage because they can jerk a horse's face around or muscle a horse around a barrel. Maybe once in a great while it might help to be able to snatch a horse's head, but not very often. I do feel that women generally are at an advantage because they tend to be significantly lighter. Women competing in rodeo will always be a highlight, in my opinion, because everyone enjoys seeing a dressed up pretty woman ride a fast horse very well. A lot of people like myself believe that a woman riding a horse well is a thing of beauty. June Holeman, for example, looked beautiful to me, even at 70. That's what I'm talking about.
Anyway, this notion that men enjoy some physical advantage is a myth...especially when you take weight into account.
In watching Clint's run on Sunday, one of the men commentators (not sure which one) said something to that effect, that because he is a man, he has the strength to pull his horse around the barrels. I was pretty miffed at his comment. I don't think barrel racing should be about who can pull a horse around three barrels, and I especially don't think it's a strength competition. He was way off base with that remark.
I'm speaking only of the notion of men having a competitive edge over women because of their upper body strength to pull horses around. Before anyone thinks I'm criticizing all men here.
Hasn't it been made perfectly clear that pulling your horse around barrels doesn't work for long term(just like changing bits, adding spurs, or anything in the quick fix category)? Of course the upper body strength to be able to do so come an "emergency" IE: my horse started to run past the first, I would assume a larger man would be able to crank my horse around and save the situation before I ever could. And I don't know one horse that would deal with this strange idea that men can "man-handle" a barrel horse and win continuously on the same horse(s).
Maybe at smaller level shows this training style could work. But to be competitive in rodeos like the American and maybe one day the NFR I don't believe any mans training style of over working the mouth would keep him competitive for long. So I really don't buy into the idea of any man having a competitive edge over me... Now if they are more talented than me, then I say ban them all from any and all barrel races from here on out ;) |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Crowned Image - 2014-03-04 11:49 AM Murphy - 2014-03-04 11:37 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-04 12:26 PM I don't see where men have any advantage over women in barrel racing. I don't buy this notion that men have an advantage because they can jerk a horse's face around or muscle a horse around a barrel. Maybe once in a great while it might help to be able to snatch a horse's head, but not very often. I do feel that women generally are at an advantage because they tend to be significantly lighter. Women competing in rodeo will always be a highlight, in my opinion, because everyone enjoys seeing a dressed up pretty woman ride a fast horse very well. A lot of people like myself believe that a woman riding a horse well is a thing of beauty. June Holeman, for example, looked beautiful to me, even at 70. That's what I'm talking about.
Anyway, this notion that men enjoy some physical advantage is a myth...especially when you take weight into account.
In watching Clint's run on Sunday, one of the men commentators (not sure which one) said something to that effect, that because he is a man, he has the strength to pull his horse around the barrels. I was pretty miffed at his comment. I don't think barrel racing should be about who can pull a horse around three barrels, and I especially don't think it's a strength competition. He was way off base with that remark.
I'm speaking only of the notion of men having a competitive edge over women because of their upper body strength to pull horses around. Before anyone thinks I'm criticizing all men here. Hasn't it been made perfectly clear that pulling your horse around barrels doesn't work for long term (just like changing bits, adding spurs, or anything in the quick fix category )? Of course the upper body strength to be able to do so come an "emergency" IE: my horse started to run past the first, I would assume a larger man would be able to crank my horse around and save the situation before I ever could. And I don't know one horse that would deal with this strange idea that men can "man-handle" a barrel horse and win continuously on the same horse (s ). Maybe at smaller level shows this training style could work. But to be competitive in rodeos like the American and maybe one day the NFR I don't believe any mans training style of over working the mouth would keep him competitive for long. So I really don't buy into the idea of any man having a competitive edge over me... Now if they are more talented than me, then I say ban them all from any and all barrel races from here on out ; )
I've always thought the same thing. You see more manhandling at a futurity or lower level event because it only works in the short term. The guys that keep winning over a period of time on open horses "ride like a woman". Using quotes there for a reason...don't get your panties wadded up, hlynn. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | fatchance - 2014-03-04 11:38 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-04 9:26 AM I don't see where men have any advantage over women in barrel racing. I don't buy this notion that men have an advantage because they can jerk a horse's face around or muscle a horse around a barrel. Maybe once in a great while it might help to be able to snatch a horse's head, but not very often. I do feel that women generally are at an advantage because they tend to be significantly lighter. Women competing in rodeo will always be a highlight, in my opinion, because everyone enjoys seeing a dressed up pretty woman ride a fast horse very well. A lot of people like myself believe that a woman riding a horse well is a thing of beauty. June Holeman, for example, looked beautiful to me, even at 70. That's what I'm talking about.
Anyway, this notion that men enjoy some physical advantage is a myth...especially when you take weight into account.
I hope you heard each and every man that was qualified to run at the American all said they lost weight for it. I loved it because I too get tired of hearing that weight doesn't matter. "MAYBE" it doesn't at certain levels, but "maybe" your wearing dark rose color glasses to help you see so clearly. lol
No kidding! |
|
| |
|
Grammar Expert
| hlynn - 2014-03-03 10:08 PM jbhoot - 2014-03-03 11:41 PM Question. Since the PRCA is open to all presently I assume that you are asking should the WPRA open up their membership to all. PRCA does not offer barrel racing WPRA runs them in conjunction with PRCA. It really is up to the Rodeo promoter to choose which association they go with and who's rules they use. RFD American did not use PRCA or WPRA rules. So in one since rodeos are open to all presently under some associations but not under the WPRA. Ok. So where is it stated that the PRCA is open to women also? I had no idea the allowed women into the PRCA. That's why the WPRA was started, wasn't it? To allow girls to rodeo in any event they want? I mean, it's called the Pro Rodeo CowBOYS Assn. So I figured since they refer to all card holders as "he, him, his or cowboy (s )" that it was only open to men. Did they amend the rules and I missed it?
They are not "invited" they are asked to sanction a rodeo, just like the PRCA is, by the rodeo committee, it's the committee that decides who they want to sanctino (or not) with their rodeo.
As already stated, women can and do have cards, they can't keep up with the men, plain and simple or they would be. I would love to see it like the ollllllddddddddd cheyenne frontier days when they had women's stock riding and bull riding in CONJUNCTION with the men's events, but I guess those days are gone. |
|
| |
|
Grammar Expert
| sodapop - 2014-03-03 10:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos?
They tried that. The WPRA sued the PRCA and came out wtih a million dollar settlement and the "right" to be in the NFR for a certain number of years at the least, I don't recall but I thought it was 10-12 years down the road and that was in 2009.
Ellerman was at the helm at the time. |
|
| |
|
Grammar Expert
| RNugent - 2014-03-04 7:28 AM I just wanted to be clear that the PRCA is open for ANYONE OF ANY GENDER to enter ANY event. The WPRA is an invited guest at the rodeos. As for the WPRA they are able to exist as is because they are a Women's Only association. No different than Indian Rodeo Association or High School Rodeo. There are certain rules you have to be within in order to compete in each of those association.
I put this response in the wrong post, they are not "invited" they saction with the rodeo committees just like the PRCA does. To imply that they are simply there by inviation is a downgrade to the work they put into their association, IMO. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1898
| NJJ - 2014-03-04 10:47 AM
Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-04 10:42 AM luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:36 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-04 9:26 AM luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:16 AM I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair. Women can and do hold PRCA cards.
karen But do they allow them to compete? I know for a fact that my sister was unable to haze for her husband in bull dogging at the pro shows. If they are allowed to compete then fine.
I can think of at least two female bull riders, and one female hazer from California and one female saddle bronc rider from Montana(?) who were PRCA card holders and did compete. If you sister-in-law was denied it must have been more than 13 years ago. I think the first female bull rider I saw was back 2001 or earlier.
I know for a fact the PRCA does co-sanction with the WPRA in at least the bull riding and the ladies are able to compete for the PRCA purse at those shows so long as they are PRCA card holders.
I don't think you see a lot of female roughies because pound for pound they are not as strong as their male counterparts. As hard as it is for men to get by great horses like Painted Valley, Snake River, Moulin Rouge just to name a few, I would be surprised to see even the best of women get past the first four jumps on the horses at the NFR that are not in the "TV Pen". You don't see those caliber of horses at every event but those are the horses that go to the big shows where the "real" money is made. Calf Roping and steer roping I would imagine are for the same reasons. You are starting to see more women in team roping associations but not yet on the "Pro Rodeo Circuit" probably because for a century it has been dominated by men and it is not "traditional". I am sure at some point there will be a woman who knows she has the fuzzies to compete with the men and do just as good. Women are for the most part new to the sport and I bet we see our first woman in the top 20 standings in the next five years and our first female NFR qualifier in the next ten, just my prediction.
As far as opening barrels up to men, I am for the most part a traditional person, however I would love to see the PRCA create their own event that would allow men to compete in the barrel race as well as women. I think for far to long there has been an ugly "stigma" placed on the male barrel racer and far to many "rodeo fans" tend to feed and grow it. As much as I hate to say it, my husband for one WAS on that boat. It wasn't until the Etbauers started raising barrel horses and we started to see a few male barrel racers out west, who are not just handy jockeys but handy in the roping pen as well, that my husband changed his opinion. I hope The American helped lessen that stereotyping and opened the rodeo world's eyes to the ability of the men in the barrel pen. It did seem as though Clint was a crowd favorite for the whole event.
You can argue all you want that there are "plenty of opportunities" for them to run somewhere else but bottom line is, until male barrel racers are widely accepted you aren't going to see as many hitting the highways. As HOTBEAR said regardless of how well he rides or where he places he is self-conscious of the narrow minded stigma that is attached in the open arena. Obviously this is not going to stop him from running HOWEVER it does stop great horseman, who aren't as strong minded, from competing. I wish at every race my husband would start running. He has amazing reflexes and can sit a horse like no ones business unfortunately he has never even loped the pattern at home. Why? Because he said his dad would drop dead of a heart attack if he found out he started riding barrel horses. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| Say they did allow men to compete in what we consider the "traditional" rodeo setting, I wonder how many actually would? The only reason The American was a big draw is because of how it paid! Those futurity riders have multiple opportunities to run at slot races at the futurities that pay $20,000-$100,000+. Also those big futurities pay out well. When they have a couple of colts that can run well over the weekend and win $5,000-$10,000 vs. running in a $2,000 added rodeo then hauling all night to another one, I think I'd stick with the futurity game. Another point, how many men actually own the horses they run? Not many at all that I know of. They mostly ride for other people for a year and then give the horse back. They run where their owners want to enter, and maybe some of those owners didn't want them to run their just turned 5 year old at a rodeo? They have learned to play a much different game. I compare the rodeo world and the futurity world to Track. A 100 meter runner and a 10,000 meter runner are both track athletes and runners, but they have very different "games" and ways they train. Rodeo people and futurity riders both barrel race, but they are entirely different "games". If they allowed men to enter the WPRA rodeos, I think they would try and enter the big money ones but the futurity trainers would stick mainly with the futurities and not make a run at the NFR, JMO. But heck these days even current WPRA members can't get into the big money rodeos since they are becoming more and more limited! (That is a whole other thread though!) |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | 3 To Go - 2014-03-04 1:05 PM Say they did allow men to compete in what we consider the "traditional" rodeo setting, I wonder how many actually would? The only reason The American was a big draw is because of how it paid! Those futurity riders have multiple opportunities to run at slot races at the futurities that pay $20,000-$100,000+. Also those big futurities pay out well. When they have a couple of colts that can run well over the weekend and win $5,000-$10,000 vs. running in a $2,000 added rodeo then hauling all night to another one, I think I'd stick with the futurity game. Another point, how many men actually own the horses they run? Not many at all that I know of. They mostly ride for other people for a year and then give the horse back. They run where their owners want to enter, and maybe some of those owners didn't want them to run their just turned 5 year old at a rodeo? They have learned to play a much different game. I compare the rodeo world and the futurity world to Track. A 100 meter runner and a 10,000 meter runner are both track athletes and runners, but they have very different "games" and ways they train. Rodeo people and futurity riders both barrel race, but they are entirely different "games". If they allowed men to enter the WPRA rodeos, I think they would try and enter the big money ones but the futurity trainers would stick mainly with the futurities and not make a run at the NFR, JMO. But heck these days even current WPRA members can't get into the big money rodeos since they are becoming more and more limited! (That is a whole other thread though!)
Limited entry rodeos should not count towards making the NFR. Period. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1767
Location: California | cyount2009 - 2014-03-04 10:25 AM NJJ - 2014-03-04 10:47 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-04 10:42 AM luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:36 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-04 9:26 AM luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:16 AM I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair. Women can and do hold PRCA cards.
karen But do they allow them to compete? I know for a fact that my sister was unable to haze for her husband in bull dogging at the pro shows. If they are allowed to compete then fine. I can think of at least two female bull riders, and one female hazer from California and one female saddle bronc rider from Montana (? ) who were PRCA card holders and did compete. If you sister-in-law was denied it must have been more than 13 years ago. I think the first female bull rider I saw was back 2001 or earlier. I know for a fact the PRCA does co-sanction with the WPRA in at least the bull riding and the ladies are able to compete for the PRCA purse at those shows so long as they are PRCA card holders. I don't think you see a lot of female roughies because pound for pound they are not as strong as their male counterparts. As hard as it is for men to get by great horses like Painted Valley, Snake River, Moulin Rouge just to name a few, I would be surprised to see even the best of women get past the first four jumps on the horses at the NFR that are not in the "TV Pen". You don't see those caliber of horses at every event but those are the horses that go to the big shows where the "real" money is made. Calf Roping and steer roping I would imagine are for the same reasons. You are starting to see more women in team roping associations but not yet on the "Pro Rodeo Circuit" probably because for a century it has been dominated by men and it is not "traditional". I am sure at some point there will be a woman who knows she has the fuzzies to compete with the men and do just as good. Women are for the most part new to the sport and I bet we see our first woman in the top 20 standings in the next five years and our first female NFR qualifier in the next ten, just my prediction. As far as opening barrels up to men, I am for the most part a traditional person, however I would love to see the PRCA create their own event that would allow men to compete in the barrel race as well as women. I think for far to long there has been an ugly "stigma" placed on the male barrel racer and far to many "rodeo fans" tend to feed and grow it. As much as I hate to say it, my husband for one WAS on that boat. It wasn't until the Etbauers started raising barrel horses and we started to see a few male barrel racers out west, who are not just handy jockeys but handy in the roping pen as well, that my husband changed his opinion. I hope The American helped lessen that stereotyping and opened the rodeo world's eyes to the ability of the men in the barrel pen. It did seem as though Clint was a crowd favorite for the whole event. You can argue all you want that there are "plenty of opportunities" for them to run somewhere else but bottom line is, until male barrel racers are widely accepted you aren't going to see as many hitting the highways. As HOTBEAR said regardless of how well he rides or where he places he is self-conscious of the narrow minded stigma that is attached in the open arena. Obviously this is not going to stop him from running HOWEVER it does stop great horseman, who aren't as strong minded, from competing. I wish at every race my husband would start running. He has amazing reflexes and can sit a horse like no ones business unfortunately he has never even loped the pattern at home. Why? Because he said his dad would drop dead of a heart attack if he found out he started riding barrel horses.
There have been male barrel racers in the "west" for as long as I can remember. When I was 8 (so 20+ years ago) and running in AZ during the futurities there was Rick Manucey, Geroge Williamson and Lance Graves. Ryan Lovendahl came along not after them. When I went to the BFA there was of course Talmadge, Brett Monroe, Kebo, Mike Green, Larry Stevens, Lenn Noble, Dale Youree, Donnie Reece - the list goes on and on. Men running barrels is not a recent phenomenon. I have never really thought anything of it. I ran against boys in the youth (Derek Hale & Dude's Compadre, JT Proffer) and they were just competitors like any other competitor that enter the race. |
|
| |
|
BHW's Simon Cowell
Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | pinx05 - 2014-03-03 11:10 PM I think it should be open for both, but at the same time I think women should be able to compete in any other event also.
Women can compete in all the other events. Have been able to for a long time. |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-04 12:56 PM
Crowned Image - 2014-03-04 11:49 AM Murphy - 2014-03-04 11:37 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-04 12:26 PM I don't see where men have any advantage over women in barrel racing. I don't buy this notion that men have an advantage because they can jerk a horse's face around or muscle a horse around a barrel. Maybe once in a great while it might help to be able to snatch a horse's head, but not very often. I do feel that women generally are at an advantage because they tend to be significantly lighter. Women competing in rodeo will always be a highlight, in my opinion, because everyone enjoys seeing a dressed up pretty woman ride a fast horse very well. A lot of people like myself believe that a woman riding a horse well is a thing of beauty. June Holeman, for example, looked beautiful to me, even at 70. That's what I'm talking about.
Anyway, this notion that men enjoy some physical advantage is a myth...especially when you take weight into account.
In watching Clint's run on Sunday, one of the men commentators (not sure which one) said something to that effect, that because he is a man, he has the strength to pull his horse around the barrels. I was pretty miffed at his comment. I don't think barrel racing should be about who can pull a horse around three barrels, and I especially don't think it's a strength competition. He was way off base with that remark.
I'm speaking only of the notion of men having a competitive edge over women because of their upper body strength to pull horses around. Before anyone thinks I'm criticizing all men here. Hasn't it been made perfectly clear that pulling your horse around barrels doesn't work for long term (just like changing bits, adding spurs, or anything in the quick fix category )? Of course the upper body strength to be able to do so come an "emergency" IE: my horse started to run past the first, I would assume a larger man would be able to crank my horse around and save the situation before I ever could. And I don't know one horse that would deal with this strange idea that men can "man-handle" a barrel horse and win continuously on the same horse (s ). Maybe at smaller level shows this training style could work. But to be competitive in rodeos like the American and maybe one day the NFR I don't believe any mans training style of over working the mouth would keep him competitive for long. So I really don't buy into the idea of any man having a competitive edge over me... Now if they are more talented than me, then I say ban them all from any and all barrel races from here on out ; )
Why would I get my panties in a wad over that?
I've said before that my husband "rides like a QUIET girl".
Bc even chicks can be heavy handed and all kinds of crazy. Heavy handedness is gender neutral.
I too wasn't a fan when the announcer said something about being able to muscle one around a set. That was just ignorant, in my opinion. Someone who hasn't seen many guys barrel race apparently.
Did anyone notice the massive amount of cheering that happened for the barrels? And the extreme LACK of excitement over the rough stock? LOL Maybe it was just me, but I didn't hear a lot of cheering for the other events.
Edited by hlynn 2014-03-04 2:40 PM
|
|
| |
|
 "Tamer of the Fiery Dragon"
Posts: 5418
Location: Depends where the next barrel race is..... | One of the first rules in PRCA rulebook is that they don't discriminate against gender. If barrel racing was a strength event, anyone with a bigger bit would win. |
|
| |
|
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Oregonracer2 - 2014-03-04 3:45 PM One of the first rules in PRCA rulebook is that they don't discriminate against gender. If barrel racing was a strength event, anyone with a bigger bit would win.
|
|
| |
|
 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | luvropin - 2014-03-04 10:16 AM I would like to see all events open to both genders if they are going to allow it in one. Why not do it for all. If a girl can beat the boys then let her in. If the boys club doesn't want that to happen then the barrel racing needs to be women only in my opinion. Our local rodeo association are allowing boys in the breakaway, fine but let the girls in the team roping its only fair.
The rodeo association I'll be running this year does allow women in team roping. It also allows boys under 15 and men over 50 to compete in breakaway. Basically, if you may be kinda small or kinda cripple to run down a rope and throw a calf, you can rope with the girls. They are the only association around here with those rules in breakaway, however any (ammy)rodeo I've been to allows women to team rope. I have been to one or two open rodeos that allowed men to run barrels, but none of the associations do. But I also haven't seen a PUSH for it. If there was a reason I didn't want them to run, it would be because they can beat me LOL. I don't care who runs barrels. I try to make my best run possible every time, no matter whose name is on the running order. I was cheering on every guy at the semifinals (mainly Talmadge) just to show the world they can beat the best of the best. And Clint made it through and proved that. No, he didn't win, but he showed he is a real threat against any pro girl/horse.
IMO, for men to run barrels at a PRO level, the PRCA would need to add the event. WPRA is for women, it isn't just barrels, they tie-down rope, ride broncs, etc. A woman just can't throw a steer like a big dude, sorry femenists. So they wouldn't have a shot if you threw it all together, men and women have to be separate in those events. Barrels is different, though. You could either have WPRA AND PRCA barrels (one for women and one for men), then combine it for the NFR somehow through a semifinal, or top 10 from each, etc. Or the barrel racing event could separate from the WPRA as a separate event and allow both to enter.
I feel the WPRA should reach out to potential men barrel racers and see what they think. Would you want to run in the Women'sPRA? Does that matter?
None of this really has anything to do with The American though since they used BBR rules, so as long as RFD-TV sticks with BBR we'll see more men next year I'm sure. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Even I wouldn't enter if that meant I had to join the WPRA. I draw the line at that. Pink shirts......no problem. Bling tack....love it. Joining the WPRA?
Priceless, perhaps, but not for me! LOL |
|
| |
|
Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-04 6:35 PM Even I wouldn't enter if that meant I had to join the WPRA. I draw the line at that. Pink shirts......no problem. Bling tack....love it. Joining the WPRA? Priceless, perhaps, but not for me! LOL
Thanks, that was the point I was trying to make. I wasn't sure if it came across right. Right now to be a PRO barrel racer, you'd have to join the WPRA, and I think even if they said, "OK, come on boys!" many men would not join. So a major change would have to occur, and we all know how much everybody likes change... |
|
| |
|
Saint Stacey
| I think Pro Sanctioned rodeo's should stay the same. Sorry boys.
Barrel racing is a sport that was created BY women FOR women at a time when equality did not exist. It gave woman a chance to go to the rodeo's and compete in a venue dominated by men that, at that time, thought women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.
It was women that fought for it to get to the point it is now. It was women that got equal pay when it was a sport that wasn't given hardly any payback but the men were able to make a living at it.
Progress is good and the 4D format really opened up barrel racing for all ages, sexes. types of horses, etc. so it isn't like men are shut out of the sport entirely.
But even in today's world of "equality", women are still mocked and looked down on. In a lot of places, a woman can do the same job as a man and the woman still gets paid less. Things are still NOT equal by any stretch of the imagination. So I am going to be selfish and say that as long as we are still NOT equal in other aspects of life, then why should the men be able to ride of the shirt tails of the hard work WOMEN put in when they came up with the barrel racing concept as it pertains to Pro sanctioned rodeo's?
Flame suit zipped and on. Sorry if this comment offends some. But at least we still have Freedom Of Speech and this is what I truly believe.
Edited by SKM 2014-03-05 6:39 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2678
Location: Mi | SKM - 2014-03-05 7:36 AM I think Pro Sanctioned rodeo's should stay the same. Sorry boys.
Barrel racing is a sport that was created BY women FOR women at a time when equality did not exist. It gave woman a chance to go to the rodeo's and compete in a venue dominated by men that, at that time, thought women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.
It was women that fought for it to get to the point it is now. It was women that got equal pay when it was a sport that wasn't given hardly any payback but the men were able to make a living at it.
Progress is good and the 4D format really opened up barrel racing for all ages, sexes. types of horses, etc. so it isn't like men are shut out of the sport entirely.
But even in today's world of "equality", women are still mocked and looked down on. In a lot of places, a woman can do the same job as a man and the woman still gets paid less. Things are still NOT equal by any stretch of the imagination. So I am going to be selfish and say that as long as we are still NOT equal in other aspects of life, then why should the men be able to ride of the shirt tails of the hard work WOMEN put in when they came up with the barrel racing concept as it pertains to Pro sanctioned rodeo's?
Flame suit zipped and on. Sorry if this comment offends some. But at least we still have Freedom Of Speech and this is what I truly believe.
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| smiley - 2014-03-04 11:05 AM RNugent - 2014-03-04 7:28 AM I just wanted to be clear that the PRCA is open for ANYONE OF ANY GENDER to enter ANY event. The WPRA is an invited guest at the rodeos. As for the WPRA they are able to exist as is because they are a Women's Only association. No different than Indian Rodeo Association or High School Rodeo. There are certain rules you have to be within in order to compete in each of those association.
I put this response in the wrong post, they are not "invited" they saction with the rodeo committees just like the PRCA does. To imply that they are simply there by inviation is a downgrade to the work they put into their association, IMO.
Sorry! Yes, I should have worded that different. Just meant to put the point across that they are not within the PRCA they are co-sanctioned and the PRCA allows any gender to buy a card but the WPRA is women only. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | SKM - 2014-03-05 6:36 AM
I think Pro Sanctioned rodeo's should stay the same. Sorry boys.
Barrel racing is a sport that was created BY women FOR women at a time when equality did not exist. It gave woman a chance to go to the rodeo's and compete in a venue dominated by men that, at that time, thought women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.
It was women that fought for it to get to the point it is now. It was women that got equal pay when it was a sport that wasn't given hardly any payback but the men were able to make a living at it.
Progress is good and the 4D format really opened up barrel racing for all ages, sexes. types of horses, etc. so it isn't like men are shut out of the sport entirely.
But even in today's world of "equality", women are still mocked and looked down on. In a lot of places, a woman can do the same job as a man and the woman still gets paid less. Things are still NOT equal by any stretch of the imagination. So I am going to be selfish and say that as long as we are still NOT equal in other aspects of life, then why should the men be able to ride of the shirt tails of the hard work WOMEN put in when they came up with the barrel racing concept as it pertains to Pro sanctioned rodeo's?
Flame suit zipped and on. Sorry if this comment offends some. But at least we still have Freedom Of Speech and this is what I truly believe.
I hope nobody flames you for that. It was a good response. |
|
| |
|
 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20916
Location: LouLouVille, OK |
Pretty sure I couldn't have said it any better then that.... |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing? |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 8:53 AM I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing?
I think you are waaaaaay off base on your assumptions. In the long run, rodeo does not pay that well when you consider the amount of hauling, etc. I don't think many more men would participate....why would they? They can make more money (in comparison of time and expense) running a few times at big futurities and added money barrel races per year. And that "incentive" hasn't drawn a "majority" of contestants being men so why would being able to compete at rodeos? NOW, if each of those rodeos paid a million $$$ every time out....yep, the men would come out of the woodwork! |
|
| |
|
 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 9:53 AM I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing?
Hmmm...LOL
I think it's hypocritical to exclude men from professional barrel racing at this point. If we, as women, shut the door on this, aren't we essentially becoming what we hate? The PRCA opened the door for women not so long ago. I am not saying that the WPRA should bend over and take men amoung its ranks....by all means...it's a free country. I don't think many men would want to be in a professional women's organization anyway. LOL. But, I DO believe that men should have the chance to run barrels at the NFR.
Yes, the other events at the NFR were made for men, by men, but the door is open for women to compete if they choose. Isn't that nice? Barrel racing was made for women, by women, but NO. No OUR precious barrel racing! Oh noezzz!
The WPRA has its own finals plus the NFR. Perhaps the PRCA and WPRA could still work together, but in a way that promotes both sexes (one event/class that caters to both PRCA and WPRA). Like a co-sanctioned barrel race. Pretty sure they kind of do that...it might work? That way, the WPRA can uphold their traditions while also allowing men to run professionally. Yes? No?
Yes, sexism still exists but I don't see how being hypocritical is going to help things. Keep driving the wedge if you must...but men have been dealing with girl power for centuries now. LOL! I don't see how closing the door and throwing the perverbial sucker in the dirt is going to make any difference. Shouldn't we lead by example instead?
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Norma, I don't think many women make very much money in pro rodeo. Not when you consider all the costs. We all know what those costs entail, so when you lay out the balance sheet, the net earnings of the overwhelming majority below the top 10 in the world is pretty paltry. In fact, my guess is most so-called pros actually lose money. I'd love to see that change, and I think perhaps the American is a good start to improving that. Then again, I think if someone played it smart, I suppose it is possible to earn a nice chunk of money barrel racing at rodeos. If they selectively haul and stay close to home, etc....
If I had a daughter (or son) who wanted to fill his permit and compete in any rodeo event, I would insist they have a day job and tell them to be realistic. They'd better have a "fallback" position, because the odds are they won't be able to do it for long, and most likely they won't make money......so, in effect, it's just a hobby. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 8:53 AM
I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing?
Personally, I believe that opening it up would better the sport eventually. Looks like I'm in the minority on that, but that's ok, too. I don't think any serious competitor is afraid of the competition or afraid of being squeezed out by anyone.
I also think there is a lot of wisdom in SKM's response. It's just not going to be completely fair or equal. Equality of opportunity is going to be a selective thing, like it or not. Even with equality, there won't always be fairness.
I do think the American is the evolution of rodeo. I loved the format. I think eventually, NFR (PRCA & WPRA) will need to evolve to survive. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1196
Location: Wide open spaces, Canada. | My first instinct was yes allow men to compete . Then I started thinking abut it more and I pictured going to the NFR with 10 out of 15 men .....,. It is just weird I like watching the glamour and glitz of women in the rodeo scene . I like the tradition behind it and think it should stay the same . |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | porky - 2014-03-05 9:42 AM My first instinct was yes allow men to compete . Then I started thinking abut it more and I pictured going to the NFR with 10 out of 15 men .....,. It is just weird I like watching the glamour and glitz of women in the rodeo scene . I like the tradition behind it and think it should stay the same .
You are very right. I love it too. Women just look pretty on the back of a horse. They can be 30-40 lbs overweight, and they still look beautiful.
Heck, who knows? Maybe the American will provide a sensible compromise. I hope the NFR and the American compliment one another. |
|
| |
|
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Just Plain Lucky - 2014-03-05 9:27 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 9:53 AM I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing? Hmmm...LOL
I think it's hypocritical to exclude men from professional barrel racing at this point. If we, as women, shut the door on this, aren't we essentially becoming what we hate? The PRCA opened the door for women not so long ago. I am not saying that the WPRA should bend over and take men amoung its ranks....by all means...it's a free country. I don't think many men would want to be in a professional women's organization anyway. LOL. But, I DO believe that men should have the chance to run barrels at the NFR.
Yes, the other events at the NFR were made for men, by men, but the door is open for women to compete if they choose. Isn't that nice? Barrel racing was made for women, by women, but NO. No OUR precious barrel racing! Oh noezzz!
The WPRA has its own finals plus the NFR. Perhaps the PRCA and WPRA could still work together, but in a way that promotes both sexes (one event/class that caters to both PRCA and WPRA). Like a co-sanctioned barrel race. Pretty sure they kind of do that...it might work? That way, the WPRA can uphold their traditions while also allowing men to run professionally. Yes? No?
Yes, sexism still exists but I don't see how being hypocritical is going to help things. Keep driving the wedge if you must...but men have been dealing with girl power for centuries now. LOL! I don't see how closing the door and throwing the perverbial sucker in the dirt is going to make any difference. Shouldn't we lead by example instead?
^^Very well summed up what I think of it.
I feel like a hypocrite advocating for equal rights for women in everything....but then refusing the same to men. I don't feel like there is any place in today's society for organizations that are based on gender or color. I think the time for the NAACP is over...
We would be kicking and screaming if we weren't allowed to compete at anything we wanted. Look at the traditional all mens schools that now accept women, and the women that fought to get in are hailed as heroes for women's rights....
Just because something is a certain way because of tradition doesn't mean the tradition is a good one. |
|
| |
|
 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 8:53 AM I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing?
How many of the people voting are directly affected? You have to look at the number of people on this site that don't even compete, much less rodeo. No judgement from me about who's posting....just pointing out that you don't have to read very many threads to figure out that this place is long on opinion and short on actual experience. |
|
| |
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | rachellyn80 - 2014-03-05 12:01 PM
HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 8:53 AM I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing?
How many of the people voting are directly affected? You have to look at the number of people on this site that don't even compete, much less rodeo. No judgement from me about who's posting....just pointing out that you don't have to read very many threads to figure out that this place is long on opinion and short on actual experience.
I think that actually might be a GOOD thing in terms of representing what the fans would want to see.....
Everyone on here probably has gone to at least a few rodeos as a spectator |
|
| |
|
Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | barrelracr131 - 2014-03-05 12:13 PM rachellyn80 - 2014-03-05 12:01 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 8:53 AM I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing? How many of the people voting are directly affected? You have to look at the number of people on this site that don't even compete, much less rodeo. No judgement from me about who's posting....just pointing out that you don't have to read very many threads to figure out that this place is long on opinion and short on actual experience. I think that actually might be a GOOD thing in terms of representing what the fans would want to see..... Everyone on here probably has gone to at least a few rodeos as a spectator
The fans come to see someone get mangled in the bullriding...it's like NASCAR.  |
|
| |
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | rachellyn80 - 2014-03-05 12:16 PM
barrelracr131 - 2014-03-05 12:13 PM rachellyn80 - 2014-03-05 12:01 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 8:53 AM I am impressed that on a site comprised of about 99% women, only about 60% of those polled feel Pro Rodeo should stay the same and not be opened up for men in barrel racing. I expected it to be closer to 90%.
On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing that barrel racing be reserved exclusively for women....under the guise of "tradition", or whatever. Maybe the fear is if more men participated, they would dominate barrel racing, just like they dominate almost everything else. Maybe men are just more athletic and maybe their strength puts them at an advantage over women. Maybe the fear is that opening it up to men and women equally would be unfair because it would stimulate more men's interest in barrel racing, which would eventually squeeze too many women out of the upper echelons. Right now, probably 90% of barrel racers across the spectrum are women. How would the sport change with an increase in male participation? Would it be better or worse? What if it was closer to 60:40 or 50:50?
I'm all for equality of opportunity, but should equality of opportunity be just a selective thing? How many of the people voting are directly affected? You have to look at the number of people on this site that don't even compete, much less rodeo. No judgement from me about who's posting....just pointing out that you don't have to read very many threads to figure out that this place is long on opinion and short on actual experience. I think that actually might be a GOOD thing in terms of representing what the fans would want to see..... Everyone on here probably has gone to at least a few rodeos as a spectator
Oh my, lol
I sure hope not! I am a "fan" in terms of rodeo, I go watch but I run 4D's.
I do not wish for wrecks, but then again I was friends with a lot of the folks that were actually competitors |
|
| |
|
 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-03 9:31 PM I think the toothpaste is out of the tube, as far as the American is concerned. They won't allow men, and then turn around and ban them. This will make the discussion more common and the debate will become more serious. Most women who are serious competitors won't say that men are better or have some advantage over women.
If anything, women hold an advantage, generally speaking, because they usually weigh less.
There was a time when Blacks were allowed to only play in amateur and negro leagues. On the surface, the obvious implied reason was because they were Black, but within inner circles, another huge reason was because they posed a threat to whites in terms of competitive edge. In on sense this is apples and oranges, but there's still a pretty good analogy.
If woman happens to be an exceptional team roper, should she be banned from competing at the highest level because of her gender?
You ladies have to decide which way you want it.
I agree. Although it is a little weird seeing men run down the alley at a rodeo, it's only fair if the women want to rope in the same setting. My daughter says she wants to rope at the American, so I guess men should barrel race |
|
| |
|
 Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | luvropin - 2014-03-04 8:45 AM
Yep, he was going to buy her a card but then didn't when the office said she wouldn't be allowed to haze. This was a few years ago...if they have since changed the rule then great. I am fine with open to the world if it is truly open to the world. It would be fun to see a woman header or heeler competing at that level.
Women have been PRCA competing members for decades...
KAILA MUSSELL bought her permit, filled it & earned her card. Ended up making the Circuit Finals - in the SADDLE BRONC RIDING. She was featured in Reba's music video - "I'm Gonna Take That Mountain"
Tammy White (I think!) almost made the NFR in the TR. Mary Salmon competed in the TR in Montana in the 1980's & 90's.
|
|
| |
|
Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | rodeorun68 - 2014-03-05 12:28 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-03 9:31 PM I think the toothpaste is out of the tube, as far as the American is concerned. They won't allow men, and then turn around and ban them. This will make the discussion more common and the debate will become more serious. Most women who are serious competitors won't say that men are better or have some advantage over women.
If anything, women hold an advantage, generally speaking, because they usually weigh less.
There was a time when Blacks were allowed to only play in amateur and negro leagues. On the surface, the obvious implied reason was because they were Black, but within inner circles, another huge reason was because they posed a threat to whites in terms of competitive edge. In on sense this is apples and oranges, but there's still a pretty good analogy.
If woman happens to be an exceptional team roper, should she be banned from competing at the highest level because of her gender?
You ladies have to decide which way you want it.
I agree. Although it is a little weird seeing men run down the alley at a rodeo, it's only fair if the women want to rope in the same setting. My daughter says she wants to rope at the American, so I guess men should barrel race
Women can rope at the American. Jackie Hobbs-Crawford had two runs in the Semi's at Mesquite. Women can buy their cards and compete in the PRCA. The WPRA is a womens only association and they are the co-sanctioning body in professional rodeo for barrel racing. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | The PRCA/WPRA is well within their right to hold onto "traditions", and I would fight for their right to do that, even if I don't agree with it. Obviously, there are a lot of "traditions" in American society that most of us want to continue.....Christmas traditions, the Pledge of Allegiance, trick-or-treating, acts of chivalry, the "traditional family", etc.... The question I have is, do some "traditions" become outmoded? I think so. For instance, I wouldn't belong to a country club that would one day admit my son, but reject my daughter because she is a woman. There was a time in this country when it was "traditional" for a woman to be cloistered in their homes, hence the old cliche' "A woman's place is in the home." Back then, it was even held, on the basis of "tradition" that a woman should not be allowed to vote. Some traditions are hard to get rid of, ostensibly because......well, "it's tradition!"
Mark Twain said: "The less there is to justify a traditional custom, the harder it is to get rid of it." |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 12:46 PM The PRCA/WPRA is well within their right to hold onto "traditions", and I would fight for their right to do that, even if I don't agree with it. Obviously, there are a lot of "traditions" in American society that most of us want to continue.....Christmas traditions, the Pledge of Allegiance, trick-or-treating, acts of chivalry, the "traditional family", etc.... The question I have is, do some "traditions" become outmoded? I think so. For instance, I wouldn't belong to a country club that would one day admit my son, but reject my daughter because she is a woman. There was a time in this country when it was "traditional" for a woman to be cloistered in their homes, hence the old cliche' "A woman's place is in the home." Back then, it was even held, on the basis of "tradition" that a woman should not be allowed to vote. Some traditions are hard to get rid of, ostensibly because......well, "it's tradition!"
Mark Twain said: "The less there is to justify a traditional custom, the harder it is to get rid of it."
Some traditions make more sense than others. I wonder what the founding members of the GRA would say? |
|
| |
|
My mind still works
Posts: 8912
| WrapSnap - 2014-03-03 10:58 PM I went on record as saying many years ago that if they opened rodeo barrel racing to men, I would be there cheering the guys on, just like I do the girls. I would not be running up the alley though. That having been said, local, open jackpot rodeos, I have been known to run in, but as much as the NFR would be cool, even if I could make the run at it, I've just been raised with a different view of rodeo.
Same view.
General:
I don't see why there can't be a race like the American that is open to all like it was. The NFR needs to stay the same imo.
We've got open rodeos by the dozen, futurities by the dozen and so on and so forth. It's things like the American that need to shut some people up. Much like Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs - some will remember that |
|
| |
|
A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | barreldude - 2014-03-05 2:27 PM WrapSnap - 2014-03-03 10:58 PM I went on record as saying many years ago that if they opened rodeo barrel racing to men, I would be there cheering the guys on, just like I do the girls. I would not be running up the alley though. That having been said, local, open jackpot rodeos, I have been known to run in, but as much as the NFR would be cool, even if I could make the run at it, I've just been raised with a different view of rodeo. Same view.
General:
I don't see why there can't be a race like the American that is open to all like it was. The NFR needs to stay the same imo.
We've got open rodeos by the dozen, futurities by the dozen and so on and so forth. It's things like the American that need to shut some people up. Much like Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs - some will remember that
I agree |
|
| |
|
Leggs
Posts: 4680
Location: lexington KY | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-05 2:55 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 12:46 PM The PRCA/WPRA is well within their right to hold onto "traditions", and I would fight for their right to do that, even if I don't agree with it. Obviously, there are a lot of "traditions" in American society that most of us want to continue.....Christmas traditions, the Pledge of Allegiance, trick-or-treating, acts of chivalry, the "traditional family", etc.... The question I have is, do some "traditions" become outmoded? I think so. For instance, I wouldn't belong to a country club that would one day admit my son, but reject my daughter because she is a woman. There was a time in this country when it was "traditional" for a woman to be cloistered in their homes, hence the old cliche' "A woman's place is in the home." Back then, it was even held, on the basis of "tradition" that a woman should not be allowed to vote. Some traditions are hard to get rid of, ostensibly because......well, "it's tradition!"
Mark Twain said: "The less there is to justify a traditional custom, the harder it is to get rid of it." Some traditions make more sense than others. I wonder what the founding members of the GRA would say?
Edited by polorunner 2014-03-05 2:37 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | polorunner - 2014-03-05 2:34 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-05 2:55 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-05 12:46 PM The PRCA/WPRA is well within their right to hold onto "traditions", and I would fight for their right to do that, even if I don't agree with it. Obviously, there are a lot of "traditions" in American society that most of us want to continue.....Christmas traditions, the Pledge of Allegiance, trick-or-treating, acts of chivalry, the "traditional family", etc.... The question I have is, do some "traditions" become outmoded? I think so. For instance, I wouldn't belong to a country club that would one day admit my son, but reject my daughter because she is a woman. There was a time in this country when it was "traditional" for a woman to be cloistered in their homes, hence the old cliche' "A woman's place is in the home." Back then, it was even held, on the basis of "tradition" that a woman should not be allowed to vote. Some traditions are hard to get rid of, ostensibly because......well, "it's tradition!"
Mark Twain said: "The less there is to justify a traditional custom, the harder it is to get rid of it." Some traditions make more sense than others. I wonder what the founding members of the GRA would say?
I'm not sure we are even debating anything here, actually. As I said, I would defend the WPRA's right to do whatever they choose, even if I think it's outmoded and dying off....which I believe it is, albeit slowly.
Bobby Riggs has been dead a long time, and he was almost 60 years old when he and Billy Jean King played that battle of the sexes. King was at or near the top of her game and in her 30's. It was all a silly carnival side show, and not even remotely germane to this discussion.
Augusta National allows women to play there and they have even started admitting women into their membership. Even Augusta National has evidently recognized their old "tradition" is outmoded.
What's important here is that they have decided to make this change on their own. I just don't follow the logic of "allowing" men to run in a few places, but selectively prohibiting them in others. What is that really saying? To me, it's analagous to allowing certain people to ride on a bus.....if they sit in the back.
If more men run in the American and start winning it, this matter will naturally resolve on it's own. I hope we don't come to a point where "World Champion" in pro barrel racing comes with an asterisk.
|
|
| |
|
My mind still works
Posts: 8912
| And......Rosa Parks has been dead along time too
I gave an example and you did as well.
What does riding in the back of a bus have to
do with this when it's not even sports related.
At least mine was |
|
| |
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I guess I don't see why this is even a debate.
They have men's and women's, as well as co-ed leagues in other sports. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barreldude - 2014-03-06 4:24 AM And......Rosa Parks has been dead along time too I gave an example and you did as well. What does riding in the back of a bus have to do with this when it's not even sports related. At least mine was
What Rosa Parks did was a seminal moment that will live forever in history. What Bobby Riggs did accomplished nothing besides fill his bank account. Few people remember anything about Bobby Riggs. It was more or less a freak show where his ass was kicked by a young lady half his age. I think Clint Sherlin's run at a big time nationally televised pro rodeo event was a seminal moment as well. At least I hope so. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 8:30 AM barreldude - 2014-03-06 4:24 AM And......Rosa Parks has been dead along time too I gave an example and you did as well. What does riding in the back of a bus have to do with this when it's not even sports related. At least mine was What Rosa Parks did was a seminal moment that will live forever in history. What Bobby Riggs did accomplished nothing besides fill his bank account. Few people remember anything about Bobby Riggs. It was more or less a freak show where his ass was kicked by a young lady half his age. I think Clint Sherlin's run at a big time nationally televised pro rodeo event was a seminal moment as well. At least I hope so.
You should pick your words more carefully.....it was NOT a "pro" rodeo....It was nothing, more or less, than an OPEN Rodeo where "pros" were given a "bye" into it. and paid big money.........just saying....... |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-06 8:34 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 8:30 AM barreldude - 2014-03-06 4:24 AM And......Rosa Parks has been dead along time too I gave an example and you did as well. What does riding in the back of a bus have to do with this when it's not even sports related. At least mine was What Rosa Parks did was a seminal moment that will live forever in history. What Bobby Riggs did accomplished nothing besides fill his bank account. Few people remember anything about Bobby Riggs. It was more or less a freak show where his ass was kicked by a young lady half his age. I think Clint Sherlin's run at a big time nationally televised pro rodeo event was a seminal moment as well. At least I hope so.
That's correct. The effect is the same though. The term "pro" when it comes to barrel racing is a stretch, in most instances, as far as I'm concerned. Most "pros" when it comes to barrel racing, lose money in the long run. In most pro rodeos the partcipants pay their own money to put on the show. I hope that changes over time. |
|
| |
|
 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | **** men.......invented the bra........and now this......geesh. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | barrelracr131 - 2014-03-06 7:28 AM
I guess I don't see why this is even a debate.
They have men's and women's, as well as co-ed leagues in other sports.
The reason I've heard is that making it to the NFR, even to say you were a qualifier, comes with a lot of prestige and can lead to endorsements and name recognition, etc. That makes sense to me as far as pro guys wanting to be able to run in wpra competition.
I've now seen arguments on both sides of the issue that are valid and make a lot of sense.
Whatever the WPRA was intended to be, barrel racing at the NFR has become a very big deal. That, in itself, changes the game. |
|
| |
|
Location: East of the Pecos | Not a big deal. Barrels is with BBR rules, and they get qualified at barrel races that allow both men and women. I think it's interesting that only one man qualified, but a whole lot of them tried. I was one of those that really enjoyed watching him compete and i was pulling for him to get into the finals. The American isn't a traditional rodeo anyway, so why change the format. It's awesome the way it is. They have PBR bull riders with their rules, Pro Roughstock rules with no mark out, so it's not just the barrels that's different. I think it was very successful, and messing with it would turn it into just another rodeo, nothing special about it.
*was refering to the American, not the NFR, I don't think a man would qualify for the NFR barrels anyway, more profit in futurities and big 4D's.
Edited by Bug Is Alive 2014-03-06 12:12 PM
|
|
| |
|
![](<a href="http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/alicat0909/?action=view¤t=yellaandcalf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1191.photobu) Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM
The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos?
WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
Including barrel racing? |
|
| |
|
Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Hotbearlvr, if you start wearing bras, then we will let you barrel race with the women.......fair enough??? Plus.....we're going to need pictures and you have to wear the bra on the outside of your shirt.......yeah......that should cover it.
(ps...I don't really care.....I just want you to wear a bra too :) |
|
| |
|
Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | ps....I'd like to share my cramps with you too....... |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men....except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear. |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
Also notice I said MOST events. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men.... except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear.
So.....why not allow them to compete? If they don't dominate barrel racing, what's the purpose of selectively locking them out? |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | If a woman wants to enlist in a branch of the military and if she wants to fight in combat, should she be allowed to do it if she can pass certain physical standards? Should she be prohibited just because she's a woman? |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:02 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men.... except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear.
Because they are locked out is why it isnt dominated by men in PRCA. If men are allowed to run at PRCA rodeos before long it too will be dominated by men as well. By locking men out it allows women to showcase in their sport. Barrel racing was created by WOMEN so they could have something to do besides cheer their husbands on at rodeos. They wanted to compete and instead of raising hell to compete in the MENS events they created their own, so keeping with tradition it should strictly be a women's sport at professional rodeos.
Men can still compete at top events in barrel racing. Keep actual rodeo traditional and only allow women to race. If PRCA were to open all events to women then I would say open barrel racing to men. But not until then.
Edited by Alicat0909 2014-03-06 1:13 PM
|
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:07 PM
If a woman wants to enlist in a branch of the military and if she wants to fight in combat, should she be allowed to do it if she can pass certain physical standards? Should she be prohibited just because she's a woman?
Oh this just opened a can worms. I'm out lol! |
|
| |
|
Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:10 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:02 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men.... except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear. If men are allowed to run at PRCA rodeos before long it too will be dominated by men as well. By locking men out it allows women to showcase in their sport. Barrel racing was created by WOMEN so they could have something to do besides cheer their husbands on at rodeos. They wanted to compete and instead of raising hell to compete in the MENS events they created their own, so keeping with tradition it should strictly be a women's sport at professional rodeos. Men can still compete at top events in barrel racing. Keep actual rodeo traditional and only allow women to race. If PRCA were to open all events to women then I would say open barrel racing to men. But not until then.
I wish you could have a conversation with one of the founding members of the GRA and maybe you would be a little more respectful of what they accomplished.
Women ARE allowed in every PRCA event by the way. The WPRA is the sanctioning body for barrel racing in the NFR...that's why men are not allowed. It's a WOMEN'S association. If there are men that feel strongly enough about this subject then they should follow the path of the ladies of the GRA and do something about it. |
|
| |
|
Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:07 PM If a woman wants to enlist in a branch of the military and if she wants to fight in combat, should she be allowed to do it if she can pass certain physical standards? Should she be prohibited just because she's a woman?
I guess that's ok as long as she doesn't have to wear a bra or have cramps...... |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | rachellyn80 - 2014-03-06 1:14 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:10 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:02 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men.... except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear. If men are allowed to run at PRCA rodeos before long it too will be dominated by men as well. By locking men out it allows women to showcase in their sport. Barrel racing was created by WOMEN so they could have something to do besides cheer their husbands on at rodeos. They wanted to compete and instead of raising hell to compete in the MENS events they created their own, so keeping with tradition it should strictly be a women's sport at professional rodeos. Men can still compete at top events in barrel racing. Keep actual rodeo traditional and only allow women to race. If PRCA were to open all events to women then I would say open barrel racing to men. But not until then.
Women ARE allowed in every PRCA event by the way. The WPRA is the sanctioning body for barrel racing in the NFR...that's why men are not allowed. It's a WOMEN'S association. If there are men that feel strongly enough about this subject then they should follow the path of the ladies of the GRA and do something about it.
I'm not sure if this directed at me or hotbearluver. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | rachellyn80 - 2014-03-06 1:14 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:10 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:02 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men.... except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear. If men are allowed to run at PRCA rodeos before long it too will be dominated by men as well. By locking men out it allows women to showcase in their sport. Barrel racing was created by WOMEN so they could have something to do besides cheer their husbands on at rodeos. They wanted to compete and instead of raising hell to compete in the MENS events they created their own, so keeping with tradition it should strictly be a women's sport at professional rodeos. Men can still compete at top events in barrel racing. Keep actual rodeo traditional and only allow women to race. If PRCA were to open all events to women then I would say open barrel racing to men. But not until then.
Women ARE allowed in every PRCA event by the way. The WPRA is the sanctioning body for barrel racing in the NFR...that's why men are not allowed. It's a WOMEN'S association. If there are men that feel strongly enough about this subject then they should follow the path of the ladies of the GRA and do something about it.
This discussion IS doing something about it. Changes don't just happen out of the blue. The pros and cons are discussed and debated.
That's what we are doing. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title. |
|
| |
|
Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title.
If you notice...even at the top of this page she is referred to as the WPRA World Champion. |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM
So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title.
Then every man who has ever won a world title should have that same asterick. Because he never once competed against a Women to get that title. |
|
| |
|
Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title.
I'll concede if you say that Clint Sherlin wasn't the first man in a rodeo lol. |
|
| |
|
Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | rachellyn80 - 2014-03-06 1:31 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title. If you notice...even at the top of this page she is referred to as the WPRA World Champion.
Fine point. |
|
| |
|
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men....except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear.
Absolutely have to disagree with you. That is one of the reasons I LOVE equestrian activities. Horsemanship doesn't pick a gender. The toughest instructor I ever had when I was riding jumpers was a woman. It's based on the individual and what we demand of ourselves. Saying that anything horsey is dominated by men, is false. Perhaps roping events are....but go watch a hunter/jumper show. Watch the open jumpers. Go watch a 3 day event. Go to a dressage show. Barrel futuries aren't male dominated.
|
|
| |
|
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:31 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title. Then every man who has ever won a world title should have that same asterick. Because he never once competed against a Women to get that title.
This is incorrect also. There are women who compete in the PRCA. |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | MS2011 - 2014-03-06 1:34 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men....except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear.
Notice I said IDK ABOUT ENGLISH.
ETA: no horsemanship doesn't pick a gender but the majority of mencompared to women are better riders. Cutting reining roping roughstock even dressage I see more men.western pleasure...the list goes on. Men rule the horse world. Except barrel racing. I think it has to do woth society naming it as a WOMENS sport. But now men are wanting to race and not afraid to. Which is fine. I just don't they should be allowed to run WPRA
Edited by Alicat0909 2014-03-06 1:41 PM
|
|
| |
|
Grammar Expert
| Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 11:22 AM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
Sherrie who? PBRA - stands for?
Are you referring to the lawsuit between the PRCA and the WPRA when Troy Ellerman's board of directors tried to bring the barrel racing in-house? |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:31 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title. Then every man who has ever won a world title should have that same asterick. Because he never once competed against a Women to get that title.
But was that because women were banned from competing? |
|
| |
|
Grammar Expert
|
HotBear - I think it was a huge disservice to women and mother's everywhere when they were allowed into combat roles. Just a personal opinion, but men are MADE to try to protect women and that instinct has fallen by the wayside hugely since women insist on doing every dang thing under the sun.
I'm sure it's worked well for some, but just personally I think it's been a distraction and we've lost too many men and women in the last 15 years or however long this insane "war" has been going on. There, worms. |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | smiley - 2014-03-06 1:37 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 11:22 AM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
Are you referring to the lawsuit between the PRCA and the WPRA when Troy Ellerman's board of directors tried to bring the barrel racing in-house?
Several years ago sherri (I think it was sherri cervi) and a few other top women tried to form the Professional Barrel Racers Association and prca was going to sanction them instead of wpra because wpra wasn't putting up the prize money at the NFR. the prca was. WPRA sued, won, PBRA was killed and PRCA stopped publishing anything about WPRA in the PSN |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:39 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:31 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title. Then every man who has ever won a world title should have that same asterick. Because he never once competed against a Women to get that title.
No but me as a woman I know I can't compete against a man in their sport. Not to mention how would a man feel if a woman went in and kicked their butts at bull riding. Hed feel about an inch tall. I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it.
This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport?
Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA.
^^^^ THIS is the biggest bunch of "bull pucky" that I have ever read......I have competed against my hubby in sorting and penning and you can bet your a$$ I have beat him. And you know what......he doesn't feel one bit "diminished".........he is PROUD !!! |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-06 1:58 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA.
^^^^ THIS is the biggest bunch of "bull pucky" that I have ever read......I have competed against my hubby in sorting and penning and you can bet your a$$ I have beat him. And you know what......he doesn't feel one bit "diminished".........he is PROUD !!!
You do realize I said bull riding. ...a MANS sport.
And to each their own. I wouldn't do that to my husband in a MANS sport. Sorting and penning is open to everyone and women regularly compete. Always have. Barrel racing hasnt. Its traditiona a WOMANS sport as is all other RODEO events a MANS sport. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-06 1:58 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA. ^^^^ THIS is the biggest bunch of "bull pucky" that I have ever read......I have competed against my hubby in sorting and penning and you can bet your a$$ I have beat him. And you know what......he doesn't feel one bit "diminished".........he is PROUD !!!
I agree with Norma. I get my ass kicked all the time by women and little girls that weigh as much as my cat. I don't feel like I am less masculine because of that. I'm just not so insecure that I feel I am less of a man because a girl whupped me on a fast horse. In fact, if I beat a little girl on a fast horse, I usually feel like that is a pretty good accomplishment, because a lot of those little girls are darned tough to beat and darned good little hands. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1898
| NJJ - 2014-03-06 1:58 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA.
^^^^ THIS is the biggest bunch of "bull pucky" that I have ever read......I have competed against my hubby in sorting and penning and you can bet your a$$ I have beat him. And you know what......he doesn't feel one bit "diminished".........he is PROUD !!!
My husband and I are crazy competitive at EVERYTHING we do together. He can't flip a rock at a target without me picking one up too. We never let either win just because we don't want to hurt feelings or pad the other's ego. I think if a man gets his feelings hurt because a woman whipped up and took his money he should probably go back "He-man Woman Haters Clubhouse" and pull his girlie panties out of his crack!
And the same goes for woman. If you can't handle being beat by a man in the barrel pen, you better find your big girl panties or go home! |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | smiley - 2014-03-06 1:41 PM
HotBear - I think it was a huge disservice to women and mother's everywhere when they were allowed into combat roles. Just a personal opinion, but men are MADE to try to protect women and that instinct has fallen by the wayside hugely since women insist on doing every dang thing under the sun.
I'm sure it's worked well for some, but just personally I think it's been a distraction and we've lost too many men and women in the last 15 years or however long this insane "war" has been going on. There, worms.
I don't like the idea of a woman in combat either, particularly in combat zones where they would be subject to unthinkable torture and rape, should they be captured. That said, if a woman feels strongly that she should be allowed, I guess my view is they ought to be allowed, provided the actual physical standards are met, the same as men. The chivalrous part of me is against women in combat, though. I hate to see that, personally. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:05 PM NJJ - 2014-03-06 1:58 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA. ^^^^ THIS is the biggest bunch of "bull pucky" that I have ever read......I have competed against my hubby in sorting and penning and you can bet your a$$ I have beat him. And you know what......he doesn't feel one bit "diminished".........he is PROUD !!! You do realize I said bull riding. ...a MANS sport. And to each their own. I wouldn't do that to my husband in a MANS sport. Sorting and penning is open to everyone and women regularly compete. Always have. Barrel racing hasnt. Its traditiona a WOMANS sport as is all other RODEO events a MANS sport.
So now you have thrown out English, Sorting, Penning.....so you must mean "rough stock" ONLY......Because I know some pretty "Salty" WOMEN Cutters and Reiners....oh, and they beat their husbands too........ |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | You all totally missed the point. I'm out! Won't argue with brock walls. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:13 PM You all totally missed the point. I'm out! Won't argue with brock walls.
I got the point....you didn't even KNOW that the women can compete in the PRCA........ |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-06 2:13 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:05 PM NJJ - 2014-03-06 1:58 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA. ^^^^ THIS is the biggest bunch of "bull pucky" that I have ever read......I have competed against my hubby in sorting and penning and you can bet your a$$ I have beat him. And you know what......he doesn't feel one bit "diminished".........he is PROUD !!! You do realize I said bull riding. ...a MANS sport. And to each their own. I wouldn't do that to my husband in a MANS sport. Sorting and penning is open to everyone and women regularly compete. Always have. Barrel racing hasnt. Its traditiona a WOMANS sport as is all other RODEO events a MANS sport.
I've beat my ex plenty of times in cutting. But it isn't tradtionally a man's sport. |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-06 2:15 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:13 PM You all totally missed the point. I'm out! Won't argue with brock walls.
I got the point....you didn't even KNOW that the women can compete in the PRCA........
So I'm belittled because I openly stated my ignorance? |
|
| |
|
Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 11:07 AM
If a woman wants to enlist in a branch of the military and if she wants to fight in combat, should she be allowed to do it if she can pass certain physical standards? Should she be prohibited just because she's a woman?
Obama just opened combat MOS's to women... They've been talking about lower standards for them, of course...
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Spring Fling - 2014-03-06 2:21 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 11:07 AM If a woman wants to enlist in a branch of the military and if she wants to fight in combat, should she be allowed to do it if she can pass certain physical standards? Should she be prohibited just because she's a woman? Obama just opened combat MOS's to women... They've been talking about lower standards for them, of course...
I think the standards should be the same, regardless of gender. Lowering the standards only risks putting women more at risk in combat. |
|
| |
|
Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:05 PM
NJJ - 2014-03-06 1:58 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA.
^^^^ THIS is the biggest bunch of "bull pucky" that I have ever read......I have competed against my hubby in sorting and penning and you can bet your a$$ I have beat him. And you know what......he doesn't feel one bit "diminished".........he is PROUD !!!
You do realize I said bull riding. ...a MANS sport.
And to each their own. I wouldn't do that to my husband in a MANS sport. Sorting and penning is open to everyone and women regularly compete. Always have. Barrel racing hasnt. Its traditiona a WOMANS sport as is all other RODEO events a MANS sport.
Alicat0909 - Have you ever seen OLD rodeo pics from the 1940's and before?? Women competed in ALL rodeo events - rough stock, bull dogging, everything.
Women can compete in any PRCA event as long as they buy their PRCA permit. Men's sports??? Tell that to Kaila Mussell. She earned enough money to fill her permit and buy her card. She went to several different associations' finals in SADDLE BRONC - against men! Including a PRCA sanctioned Circuit Finals.
I can list the names of several other women that have done well and won big money competing as PRCA members.
PRCA ALLOWS WOMEN TO COMPETE IN ALL EVENTS!!!!!! |
|
| |
|
Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:32 PM
Spring Fling - 2014-03-06 2:21 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 11:07 AM If a woman wants to enlist in a branch of the military and if she wants to fight in combat, should she be allowed to do it if she can pass certain physical standards? Should she be prohibited just because she's a woman? Obama just opened combat MOS's to women... They've been talking about lower standards for them, of course...
They currently are the same. But I heard a poll on the news on the radio in the last couple weeks. Only like .07% (not 7%) :) of women currently in the military have any interest in going into a combat MOS.
The lower standards also put the other people in their unit at risk also.
I do agree that if you are a woman and tough enough to make the standards, go for it! But don't give them any special breaks. Not all men pass the standards... |
|
| |
|
Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | This is what I'm talking about:
http://theuspatriot.com/2014/02/26/female-apache-pilot-takes-out-ta...
You go, Girl! :)
|
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:18 PM NJJ - 2014-03-06 2:15 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:13 PM You all totally missed the point. I'm out! Won't argue with brock walls. I got the point....you didn't even KNOW that the women can compete in the PRCA........ So I'm belittled because I openly stated my ignorance?
I could go on about the PWBR (NOT PBRA) and your misconceptions of the organization of that entity, etc....if you want....My point is that you need to do a little research into history and concepts of rodeo, etc before making broad statements..... |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM
HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men....except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear.
What?!?!?
That's just narrow minded nonsense.
|
|
| |
|
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:16 PM NJJ - 2014-03-06 2:13 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:05 PM NJJ - 2014-03-06 1:58 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA. ^^^^ THIS is the biggest bunch of "bull pucky" that I have ever read......I have competed against my hubby in sorting and penning and you can bet your a$$ I have beat him. And you know what......he doesn't feel one bit "diminished".........he is PROUD !!! You do realize I said bull riding. ...a MANS sport. And to each their own. I wouldn't do that to my husband in a MANS sport. Sorting and penning is open to everyone and women regularly compete. Always have. Barrel racing hasnt. Its traditiona a WOMANS sport as is all other RODEO events a MANS sport. I've beat my ex plenty of times in cutting. But it isn't tradtionally a man's sport.
Based of this statement, "Anything horsey is dominated by men....except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however)" It sounds like you think cutting/sorting/reining/roping would all be "men's" events?
Edited by MS2011 2014-03-06 2:52 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM
HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:39 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:31 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title. Then every man who has ever won a world title should have that same asterick. Because he never once competed against a Women to get that title.
No but me as a woman I know I can't compete against a man in their sport. Not to mention how would a man feel if a woman went in and kicked their butts at bull riding. Hed feel about an inch tall. I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it.
This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport?
Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA.
Oh, it's a gender issue alright. And not fair to all women that you lump them in with yourself... You, as a lesser woman, can't compete is what your post should have said. That does NOT go for me and it doesn't go for all women.
And the way I view my husband, is that he is more of a man because he doesn't need to be with a weak woman in order for him to feel like a man. He is capable of competing and doesn't need others to lay down so he can win. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas |
Badass |
|
| |
|
The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington |  |
|
| |
|
Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 2:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:31 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title. Then every man who has ever won a world title should have that same asterick. Because he never once competed against a Women to get that title. No but me as a woman I know I can't compete against a man in their sport. Not to mention how would a man feel if a woman went in and kicked their butts at bull riding. Hed feel about an inch tall. I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA.
I encourage you to read The Lottery by Shirley Jackson. It's an interesting take on tradition... |
|
| |
|
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Nita - 2014-03-06 2:58 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:31 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:28 PM So I guess to say Sherry Cervi is "World Champion" is a little misleading then? She is "Women's Barrel Racing World Champion". That's pretty accurate, correct? If men aren't allowed to compete against her then maybe there really should be an asterisk next to her title. Then every man who has ever won a world title should have that same asterick. Because he never once competed against a Women to get that title. No but me as a woman I know I can't compete against a man in their sport. Not to mention how would a man feel if a woman went in and kicked their butts at bull riding. Hed feel about an inch tall. I'd never compete against my husband. I want to boost his ego not beat it. This isn't just a gender subject its a morals issues as well I think. I'd never want to make a man feel less than me. My husband wouldn't ever try to beat me in my sport as I won't his. Its a mutual respect for EACH others sport and neither wants to up another just to prove they can. Why can't be happy woth what they do have IDK. why not respect the tradition and not try upstage women in the last truly female sport? Same for women. Women shouldn't try to compete PRCA. That's why we have WPRA. Oh, it's a gender issue alright. And not fair to all women that you lump them in with yourself... You, as a lesser woman, can't compete is what your post should have said. That does NOT go for me and it doesn't go for all women. And the way I view my husband, is that he is more of a man because he doesn't need to be with a weak woman in order for him to feel like a man. He is capable of competing and doesn't need others to lay down so he can win.
I will admit, I LOVE to beat my husband where and win I can. He is a man's man and nothing I do is going to change that. It p@@@sses me off when I cannot do something he can just because I am not as strong as he is. We used to play tennis, a pretty even sport for both genders. I was good, he was not but he would hoot and holler to distract me, make me laugh everytime I had a shot I would miss. OMgoodness I would get so mad at him. |
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:21 PM rachellyn80 - 2014-03-06 1:14 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:10 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 1:02 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men.... except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear. If men are allowed to run at PRCA rodeos before long it too will be dominated by men as well. By locking men out it allows women to showcase in their sport. Barrel racing was created by WOMEN so they could have something to do besides cheer their husbands on at rodeos. They wanted to compete and instead of raising hell to compete in the MENS events they created their own, so keeping with tradition it should strictly be a women's sport at professional rodeos. Men can still compete at top events in barrel racing. Keep actual rodeo traditional and only allow women to race. If PRCA were to open all events to women then I would say open barrel racing to men. But not until then.
Women ARE allowed in every PRCA event by the way. The WPRA is the sanctioning body for barrel racing in the NFR...that's why men are not allowed. It's a WOMEN'S association. If there are men that feel strongly enough about this subject then they should follow the path of the ladies of the GRA and do something about it.
That's what we are doing.
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-06 8:18 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 3:24 PM Badass
Is this the same person?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK87clYwK6s |
|
| |
|
Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | Could be, but I don't know for sure.... |
|
| |
|
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
Oh my........ please learn a bit about what actually happened before trying to use it as an argument.
Someone named Sherri did not try to create the "PBRA" . At least nothing that was attached to the PRCA. But then again I am trying to come up with 9 Pro Rodeo events.
And once again.......... Women are allowed and have purchased PRCA cards for years. They also compete both in timed events and rough stock.
I am actually sorry that you believe it takes more brute power to ride a well trained horse (any discipline) then it does actual horsemanship. Not to mention some very talented women trainers.
Men maybe the superior gender in your world. In mine they are equal. All people have strengths and weakness does not make them better than the next as a human.
karen |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | fatchance - 2014-03-06 4:03 PM
Who is this badass beauty? |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 17
| Bottom line has anyone seen women any NFR event besides the barrel race. They may can enter , but they cannot beat men in the other events. Some women do enter team roping, but in certain score lines they can't be as competitive when a man can throw harder, and much longer loop.
Edited by elmer fud 2014-03-06 8:44 PM
|
|
| |
|
 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-06 6:09 PM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
Oh my........ please learn a bit about what actually happened before trying to use it as an argument.
Someone named Sherri did not try to create the "PBRA" . At least nothing that was attached to the PRCA. But then again I am trying to come up with 9 Pro Rodeo events.
And once again.......... Women are allowed and have purchased PRCA cards for years. They also compete both in timed events and rough stock.
I am actually sorry that you believe it takes more brute power to ride a well trained horse (any discipline) then it does actual horsemanship. Not to mention some very talented women trainers.
Men maybe the superior gender in your world. In mine they are equal. All people have strengths and weakness does not make them better than the next as a human.
karen
Thank you Karen- you took the words right out of my mouth. Edited by barrel_racing_angel 2014-03-06 9:00 PM
|
|
| |
|
The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 6:22 PM fatchance - 2014-03-06 4:03 PM Who is this badass beauty?
That would be me. Your favorite in your face bull-s-it, what's your problem poster. That was Bodacious by the way, scored a 99. "That's my story and I sticking to it." Everybody sing. |
|
| |
|
A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | fatchance - 2014-03-06 10:24 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 6:22 PM fatchance - 2014-03-06 4:03 PM Who is this badass beauty? Everybody sing.
Ha ha ha ha ha, love it... And thats my story and I AM sticking with it You go girl |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | Hehe I love being the one to stir the pot |
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | SKM - 2014-03-05 6:36 AM
I think Pro Sanctioned rodeo's should stay the same. Sorry boys.
Barrel racing is a sport that was created BY women FOR women at a time when equality did not exist. It gave woman a chance to go to the rodeo's and compete in a venue dominated by men that, at that time, thought women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.
It was women that fought for it to get to the point it is now. It was women that got equal pay when it was a sport that wasn't given hardly any payback but the men were able to make a living at it.
Progress is good and the 4D format really opened up barrel racing for all ages, sexes. types of horses, etc. so it isn't like men are shut out of the sport entirely.
But even in today's world of "equality", women are still mocked and looked down on. In a lot of places, a woman can do the same job as a man and the woman still gets paid less. Things are still NOT equal by any stretch of the imagination. So I am going to be selfish and say that as long as we are still NOT equal in other aspects of life, then why should the men be able to ride of the shirt tails of the hard work WOMEN put in when they came up with the barrel racing concept as it pertains to Pro sanctioned rodeo's?
Flame suit zipped and on. Sorry if this comment offends some. But at least we still have Freedom Of Speech and this is what I truly believe.
|
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | This asked for opinions and I gave mine. Yes I have some facts wrong. My mistake. I only read about it in a magazine to what seems to be a long time ago. I've forgotten qhat actually took place. My mistake.
I stand by the fact that men in a professional arena have won more than women. Roughstock is hard and even in wpra women can ride two handed. Not very equal. And even though women can ride prca how many have you seen ride on a big stage?I have no issue competeing alongside men. Just as a traditional stand point keep it for women.
Yeah I'm pretty old fashioned. I think women shouldn't be in combat, men are the bread winners, and women are the home makers. and no I wouldnt ever compete against my husband as he wouldn't compete against me. Its a respect for one another. Instead of trying to one up the other person we help. I've cheered him on and dusted him off at bull ridings and he saddled my horses many of times. We just aren't that competitive couple. Thats fine I don't judge couples who are so why should what I believe be shot down without a second thought?
I NEVER said brute strength was what made a good horseman. I said men are more aggressive and generally have less fear than women. Even hotbearlvr saidthis is a male dominated world. There is nothong wrong with that. They have worked hard for it and deserve credit where credit is due. Women can be right along side of them if theu work hard enough. And the women have gone on and competed next to those male world champions and won. I will be the first to stand and applaude. If a woman competed in rough stock I'd be her biggest supporter. If a man went and won the NFR in barrel racing I'd be his biggest fan. This issue will probably never directly affect me. And that's okay. Sorry I don't exactly use my words well! Several other ldies have said what I wanted to in a much better way! Again I apologize for ruffling any feathers and not knowing how to get my point across.
Sorry for any typos my phone has tiny keys :)
ETA: No I do not think events like cutting, reining penning ect ect are events for men. As far as I know they've always been open to all genders. I said those sports as a whole on a professional level are dominated by men. Not made for men they are just ones who win all the time. No harm no foul they earned it.
Edited by Alicat0909 2014-03-06 11:07 PM
|
|
| |
|
Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | elmer fud - 2014-03-06 8:43 PM
Bottom line has anyone seen women any NFR event besides the barrel race. They may can enter , but they cannot beat men in the other events. Some women do enter team roping, but in certain score lines they can't be as competitive when a man can throw harder, and much longer loop.
What he/she said. |
|
| |
|
Grammar Expert
| Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:44 PM smiley - 2014-03-06 1:37 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 11:22 AM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
Are you referring to the lawsuit between the PRCA and the WPRA when Troy Ellerman's board of directors tried to bring the barrel racing in-house? Several years ago sherri (I think it was sherri cervi ) and a few other top women tried to form the Professional Barrel Racers Association and prca was going to sanction them instead of wpra because wpra wasn't putting up the prize money at the NFR. the prca was. WPRA sued, won, PBRA was killed and PRCA stopped publishing anything about WPRA in the PSN
Well, you are kinda right but I don't believe it was started or even championed by Sherry. In fact, it was an OLD idea that had been revived with Ellerman was the commissioner. It was his BOD that put it into place, not one person. There were some that were for it and some that were against it. The WPRA won that battle, although I do believe they will probably hvae to do it again down the road.
As for the PSN, they didn't print too dang much before that on the WPRA gals, but they printed some. The WPRA has their own magazine and their own sponsors, so in this particular case, I think the PSN has a point.
I've always thought that they should just be in one building and use one staff and have either two BODs or have equal numbers on the BOD like the other events do, but that would mean that there can't be two presidents and two vice presidents and some of the bennies stop for those who get them and we know how everyone hates change. We'll see how it shakes out down the road. |
|
| |
|
Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 8:59 PM
elmer fud - 2014-03-06 8:43 PM
Bottom line has anyone seen women any NFR event besides the barrel race. They may can enter , but they cannot beat men in the other events. Some women do enter team roping, but in certain score lines they can't be as competitive when a man can throw harder, and much longer loop.
What he/she said.
About 10 years ago, Tammy West White wasn't too far out of making the NFR. Here's a little bit from a 2009 BARREL HORSE NEWS:
"Once she started, White never looked back. Her heeler in high school was multiple National Finals Rodeo qualifier Daniel Green. In the late 1990s, she got her pro rodeo permit so she could go with her husband Ryan. She roped with Whip Lewis while she had her permit and at some of the bigger rodeos like Reno, but once she had her card, Ryan was her main partner.
"The first year we went a lot, from San Antonio, Texas, to Prineville, Ore.," recalls White. "We went to about 30 or 40 rodeos. It was a blast. The next few years we started staying around home and made the circuit finals a couple of times."
White gained national attention through ESPN's coverage of the early PRCA Wrangler Pro Tour Rodeos. They would televise the short round and White had made the cut at such major rodeos as Reno, Greeley, Colo., Vernal, Utah, and Salinas, Calif.
She's also made five appearances at the Bob Feist Invitational and qualified for the California Circuit Finals three times."
As mentioned above, Kaila Mussell made it to her Circuit Finals in Saddle Bronc...
I guess it's all a matter of how bad you want it.
|
|
| |
|
 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | I have not read through the ten pages of bickering here but I do think that if we want to take barrel racing and rodeo in general to the next level some people have to start thinking out of the box. Rodeo and barrel racing are great entertaining sports, why have the other sports passed us by ????? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Mighty Broke - 2014-03-07 3:31 PM
I have not read through the ten pages of bickering here but I do think that if we want to take barrel racing and rodeo in general to the next level some people have to start thinking out of the box. Rodeo and barrel racing are great entertaining sports, why have the other sports passed us by ?????
Actually, there has only been some bickering on the last few pages. You should read the earlier ones. There was a lot of good information and insight. Some was just opinion, some interesting facts. Overall, it's been pretty informative. |
|
| |
|
Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Nita - 2014-03-07 4:36 PM Mighty Broke - 2014-03-07 3:31 PM I have not read through the ten pages of bickering here but I do think that if we want to take barrel racing and rodeo in general to the next level some people have to start thinking out of the box. Rodeo and barrel racing are great entertaining sports, why have the other sports passed us by ????? Actually, there has only been some bickering on the last few pages. You should read the earlier ones. There was a lot of good information and insight. Some was just opinion, some interesting facts. Overall, it's been pretty informative.
Good to hear---I'll have to go back and read it. |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Women fought long and hard to break down the walls of discrimination and we've come a long way.
Isn't it hypocritical in a way to say "no boys allowed" when we are the ones who have been fighting for equality for so long?
Doesn't seem right to me. Seems like there's a double standard. It's only discrimination when it's "no girls allowed" I guess.
And it doesn't matter if guys would or wouldn't want to run in the rodeos and run for the circuit finals or NFR. It's the fact that they can't.
You don't see a lot of women in the other events, but the fact is, they are allowed to compete if they so choose. So why is it ok to say "nope, sorry we can't let you run because of your gender" in barrels?
If everyone said "Well it's tradition for only wealthy male land owners to vote, so we shouldn't change it" back in the day, people would have still fought for equal rights to vote. But if it's keeping guys out of barrel racing at rodeos, it's a different story.
I guess I'm just confused. |
|
| |
|
Saint Stacey
| We may have come a long way in the discrimation thing, but things are still not even close to being equal, IMHO.
Am I a hypocrit? Maybe. But, as I stated earlier... barrel racing was created BY women FOR women. Men have a lot of opportunties already when it comes to barrel racing. So they can't run at WPRA sanctioned barrel races. Get over it.
How many woman are in the NBA? NFL? MLB? NHL? How many professional sports are mixed? Very few. Nascar with one woman driver right now.
Men are making a darn good living training barrel horses, competing in futurities, big 4D's, slot races and they have open rodeo's. It isn't like they don't have options because the WPRA is closed to them.
Yes, I am a hypocrit because I say leave the WPRA alone and let woman have ONE venue that is soley for them.
Edited by SKM 2014-03-07 6:17 PM
|
|
| |
|
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | SKM - 2014-03-07 6:13 PM We may have come a long way in the discrimation thing, but things are still not even close to being equal, IMHO.
Am I a hypocrit? Maybe. But, as I stated earlier... barrel racing was created BY women FOR women. Men have a lot of opportunties already when it comes to barrel racing. So they can't run at WPRA sanctioned barrel races. Get over it.
How many woman are in the NBA? NFL? MLB? NHL? How many professional sports are mixed? Very few. Nascar with one woman driver right now.
Men are making a darn good living training barrel horses, competing in futurities, big 4D's, slot races and they have open rodeo's. It isn't like they don't have options because the WPRA is closed to them.
Yes, I am a hypocrit because I say leave the WPRA alone and let woman have ONE venue that is soley for them.
Then I guess I'm a hypocrite too. |
|
| |
|
Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | The WPRA is a private organization. They can set whatever rules they want. Just like LPGA... There are plenty of other places to take your money if you are a man, or prefer to compete against men.
They started as the GIRLS' Rodeo Assn, and modernized to the WOMENS' Professional Rodeo Assn. The market will decide if they survive. They've done well so far.
|
|
| |
|
 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men....except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear.
throw fear in there . gender plays no part in it. not in my world anyway.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-07 7:06 PM
|
|
| |
|
I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | I don't see how letting men run barrels at the NFR is going to promote rodeo as a sport! Maybe changing the format! |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
|
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-07 7:51 PM So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
Yep.....and it only took you ten pages to realize that????  |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-07 8:07 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-07 7:51 PM So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
Yep.....and it only took you ten pages to realize that????
Exactly, NJJ. Let's see if anyone disagrees with my statement that it is OK to ban someone from having the opportunity to compete at the NFR because of his gender. This is acceptable, I assume. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I dont have a bone in this but I truly think if women werent allowed there would be a huge issue here.. I also think just because riders of any gender in any of the events are allowed doesnt mean they will .. tradition is set and yes a few might but I dont think it will be what it is made out to be.. a major issue.I dont think anyone really should worry so much .. but im not running in it so who knows.I dont care to see a woman bullrider but to each his own.. i do love to watch the women at nfr.. if a man is in the mix I dont think Id not watch.lol
but tradition is tradition and I think most men will feel same.. but who knows..
you know in jumpers men are heavier but they arent to concerned if their mount can get over the big jumps quickly..and we all compete together ..lol.. |
|
| |
|
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-07 7:51 PM So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
Yes |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Tradition is one thing. Selective discrimination based on gender is another.
Traditions change all the time, like it or not. Just because we have traditions doesn't mean they are sacrosanct. Some traditions change, and it winds up being for the better, even though at the time, such change was met with an uproar and resistance. Women's Suffrage, for example. Women being ensconsed in the home is another. Women helicopter and fighter pilots might be another.
It used to be a widely held "tradition" that black people couldn't sit at the same lunch counter, or sit in the front of a bus, or use the same water fountain or toilets. Those weren't necesssarily hard and fast laws.....at the time, they were traditions. It just so happened that those "traditions" were sometimes harshly enforced.
Interracial dating, traditionally was frowned upon.....and in some circles it still is.
One might say that a gay lifestyle was traditionally kept quiet......traditionally, gay men and women stayed in the closet and were forced my societal traditions and mores to live a double life.
Some traditions we generally wish to remain, while others change. Not all "tradition" is good and not all "tradition" makes sense.
Many civic organizations such as the Jaycees, Rotary, Lions, and Kiwanis used to be "men only". I believe the Supreme Court changed that, if I'm not mistaken. They too said they were "private".
Years ago there was something called "Boys Clubs of America". They tried to keep it that way by saying they were "private" clubs. In reality, they were public clubs......except for girls. Now we have "Boys and Girls Clubs of America". Is that a good thing? If the situation would have been the opposite and it started out as "Girls Clubs of America", would you all feel the same?
Again, right now, I think the WPRA should not be forced to do anything. The name alone is a deterrent! I think this may be one of those times when public pressure alone gradually forces change, as opposed to lawsuits.
Telling a man that he is not allowed to compete at a certain high level purely based on gender, under the guise of "tradition" won't last. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | my point is if men were allowed.. I in my opinion think.. most would think like andy .. support but not run.. i may be way wrong.. due to the past tradition..
that was all I was saying..not to go either way.. its wrong to say they cant.. but due to tradition.. i think most would feel awkward.. but I dont know.like the bullriding.. not many women are doing it although can.?
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-07 8:45 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | It will change. I think it will take time, but it will change. Just like everything else like this.
I also think this discussion is good because it forces all of us to take a look at it and really think about it. |
|
| |
|
Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| Bibliafarm - 2014-03-07 9:43 PM my point is if men were allowed.. I in my opinion think.. most would think like andy .. support but not run.. i may be way wrong.. due to the past tradition..
that was all I was saying..not to go either way.. its wrong to say they cant.. but due to tradition.. i think most would feel awkward.. but I dont know.like the bullriding.. not many women are doing it although can.?
Maybe some would....I don't know....it's their problem and their loss. LOL. I don't think it's fair to assume that all men would want to wrestle cows, and ride broncs/bulls either....
I don't get it. Don't we get all huffy when people try to insinuate that running barrels is easy? It's NOT, and while it's a sport that was created by women there's nothing girly about it. Well, except maybe the bling! LOL. It's harder than it looks and takes real skill. By saying, "Well, men wouldn't want to run barrels cuz it's for womenz" or that "Men would feel girly" or that "It's a girly sport" is the highest level of absurdity.
Again, the WPRA can do whatever they want. I'm not saying that they should let men into THEIR association. I do, however, believe that men should have a chance at barrels at the NFR right alongside the ladies. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I think over time HBL it will change.. more will.. want to.. I dont know. i am not in their heads.. lol.. but men work as hard as women to get to the top..alot of people dont like change.. like i said I Hold no Opinions about this.. I truly dont care one way or another.. im still gonna suppport and cheer my favorites on. |
|
| |
|
Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-07 7:51 PM
So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
Doc as far as the WPRA rules for membership goes yes you can not join. It states that it is a womens only group and must be proved by birth cert. Now do I think that someone with a lot of money is going to someday file a law suit against them and win...YES Pick the right court and I think it is a lock. But that really is not what we are taking about. What I see a lot of people saying here is why not let men run barrels at the NFR or No keep it the same with only women from the WPRA competing. That is where some are making a huge mistake the WPRA does not have a lock on the NFR they are there under contract with the PRCA. That contract will run out someday and there is no guarantee that the PRCA will sign a new one with the WPRA. With new Rodeos like the RFD American which I think has completely changed the game with their format. Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Or they may go with another barrel association. With the money that the American offered it is a whole new ballgame. And I know that Vegas and the major sponsors are watching we will see where their money goes. I think the winds of change are a blowing and we will see where they take us.
Edited by jbhoot 2014-03-07 9:51 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think you are right, JB. It's just a matter of time. Eventually the "feminine" stigma of a man barrel racing (wherever that exists) will evaporate. Men who insist that barrel racing is only for sissys and gay men are probably insecure themselves....most of them, at least. Some may even have some ambiguities that they themselves wish to deny. I don't see anything "sissy" about horsemanship. Good horsemanship is good horsemanship and gender should have nothing whatsoever to do with it.
If I were in the business of training barrel horses or giving lessons, I probably wouldn't take a strong stand on this as it would drive some business away, I'm guessing. I would say that it should stay the same because that's the "tradition". That would be the smart thing to do from a business standpoint. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | its interesting you say that.. many great Dressage trainers are men..Dressage doesnt hold gender a issue.. makes one think.. but yet many would consider that a sissy sport.. although its far from it.long long ago you wouldnt see it with swarms of men .. now you do.. good horsemenship is good horsemenship.. men or women..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-07 10:01 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Bibliafarm - 2014-03-07 9:57 PM its interesting you say that.. many great Dressage trainers are men..Dressage doesnt hold gender a issue.. makes one think.. but yet many would consider that a sissy sport.. although its far from it.long long ago you wouldnt see it with swarms of men .. now you do.. good horsemenship is good horsemenship.. men or women..
And I bet the sport is better because of it. That crowd went wild when Clint Sherlin went flying in there. I think it got a lot of people to think.
Preserving "tradition" for no good reason, other than the status quo is not reasonable, IMO.....not when it required shutting others out purely because of their gender. I'm confident that women will more than hold their own. They don't need to be shielded from men...not in this sport. They can beat men just as easily as men can beat them, if not moreso. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | jbhoot - 2014-03-07 9:13 PM . Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Where were you when the PRCA already tried that?????
IMO, I think the format of the American will grow bigger and bigger with more rodeos (qualifying etc) making the NFR look "out of date" and obsolete.....Face it....why would any woman (or man) run all over the country hitting 40-50 rodeos to win less than the amount of money that "could" be offered in the American format....The PRCA shot themselves in the foot by p*ffing off a lot of their contestants. You didn't see any of them turn down the offer to compete in the American, did you?
Edited by NJJ 2014-03-08 9:22 AM
|
|
| |
|
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | NJJ - 2014-03-08 9:15 AM jbhoot - 2014-03-07 9:13 PM . Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Where were you when the PRCA already tried that?????
IMO, I think the format of the American will grow bigger and bigger with more rodeos (qualifying etc) making the NFR look "out of date" and obsolute.....Face it....why would any woman (or man) run all over the country hitting 40-50 rodeos to win less than the amount of money that "could" be offered in the American format....The PRCA shot themselves in the foot by p*ffing off a lot of their contestants. You didn't see any of them turn down the offer to compete in the American, did you?
I've been thinking the same thing NJJ. Just thinking randomly in my part of the country there are so many awesome horses and riders that the gals are a huge part of the family ranches and can't leave for months at a time but can easily do the American and all for $100,000. Its a no brainer. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Bibliafarm - 2014-03-07 9:57 PM its interesting you say that.. many great Dressage trainers are men..Dressage doesnt hold gender a issue.. makes one think.. but yet many would consider that a sissy sport.. although its far from it.long long ago you wouldnt see it with swarms of men .. now you do.. good horsemenship is good horsemenship.. men or women..
I think you are a bit off in history here. Bibs.....Dressage was always a male dominated sport until the early 50s when women were finally allowed to compete in the Olympics.....Now, over the years, it may have shifted to women being predominate but dressage has a centuries old history and tradition. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I was not talking so far back in beginning of time. Over the course of say 30 years it has been overrun with women to point of that some men if you . Ask any cowboy would say its sissy. Or men. Its not true .it evolved. More are competing now and it isn't a big deal .very competitive trainers and riders and well respected.. ...it may have been over run by men in early years but it changed a lot...I see barrel racing the same my point.women and now men
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-08 10:33 AM
|
|
| |
|
Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | For the record, the PWBR was for women only also. The PWBR was under the PRCA umbrella, but it was still separate. And if you were a roper also, you had to buy TWO cards - PWBR/PRCA, if you wanted to compete in multiple events. The GB didn't even count towards AA, if you were so inclined. The PRCA starting the PWBR wasn't about equality at all, it was all about control.
|
|
| |
|
Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| NJJ - 2014-03-08 9:15 AM
jbhoot - 2014-03-07 9:13 PM . Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Where were you when the PRCA already tried that?????
IMO, I think the format of the American will grow bigger and bigger with more rodeos (qualifying etc) making the NFR look "out of date" and obsolete.....Face it....why would any woman (or man) run all over the country hitting 40-50 rodeos to win less than the amount of money that "could" be offered in the American format....The PRCA shot themselves in the foot by p*ffing off a lot of their contestants. You didn't see any of them turn down the offer to compete in the American, did you?
NJJ I am well aware of the of the previous case between the PRCA and WPRA and the settlement and that the settlement has an end date. Since than things have changed the PRCA will have other options next time. My point was that the WPRA should not assume that they have a lock on the NFR they do not. Like most things in life Rodeo is controlled by money. If the money from sponsors and attendance starts going to Rodeos like the American you bet the PRCA is going to take notice and may vary well change their format. Vegas,the crowd,sonsors and the PRCA all have votes in this. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | jbhoot - 2014-03-08 11:17 AM NJJ - 2014-03-08 9:15 AM jbhoot - 2014-03-07 9:13 PM . Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Where were you when the PRCA already tried that?????
IMO, I think the format of the American will grow bigger and bigger with more rodeos (qualifying etc) making the NFR look "out of date" and obsolete.....Face it....why would any woman (or man) run all over the country hitting 40-50 rodeos to win less than the amount of money that "could" be offered in the American format....The PRCA shot themselves in the foot by p*ffing off a lot of their contestants. You didn't see any of them turn down the offer to compete in the American, did you? NJJ I am well aware of the of the previous case between the PRCA and WPRA and the settlement and that the settlement has an end date. Since than things have changed the PRCA will have other options next time. My point was that the WPRA should not assume that they have a lock on the NFR they do not. Like most things in life Rodeo is controlled by money. If the money from sponsors and attendance starts going to Rodeos like the American you bet the PRCA is going to take notice and may vary well change their format. Vegas,the crowd,sonsors and the PRCA all have votes in this. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
I agree that things MAY change in the future. However, the WPRA is the sanctioning body (per agreement for the resolution of the lawsuits) for barrel racing at the WNFR through 2019. The PRCA didn't do themselves any favors by p*ffing off their top contestants in this last fiasco. Five more years and they may not have the "bargaining" power for sponsors, etc that they will need. The new and successful concept like the American may just be their downfall. |
|
| |
|
 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| My two cents.
Saying keeping the barrel race WPRA and women only in PRCA rodeos is "tradition" is a gross oversimplification of how barrel racing came to be a part of Pro rodeo.
Rodeo was different back in the day. Women used to ride broncs and trick ride...trick riding was a judged event, not a contract act.
After the death of a female bronc rider, that event was discontinued. I'm not sure why trick riding faded out.
Anywho, barrel racing evolved and was accepted as a way to add some color, flash and femininity to the sport.
Not everyone was on board. Several stock contractors and committees wouldn't have barrel racing, or if they did, they would offer unsanctioned barrel races or far less added money.
The ladies who pioneered barrel racing in rodeo fought to make it accepted and a legitimate part of the rodeos.
They wore fancy shirts and dress pants with no back pockets because jeans were not allowed early on. They carried flags and set pivots for grand entry because that was a way to get stock contractors to be more accepting of the barrel race.
As time went on, barrel racing became more accepted due to the efforts of the GRA and later the WPRA. They achieved getting the WPRA sanctioned barrel race into such rodeos as Fort Worth, Cheyenne and Pendelton...no small feats!
I think because of barrel racing in rodeo, barrel racing became vastly popular nationwide and in all sorts of venues...all because of what these ladies fought for and achieved. And men in increasing numbers run barrels for fun and profit.
Now that the money and prestige is there to win at PRCA rodeos and the NFR, some male barrel racers want a shot at it. I understand that. I am against it. I think the organizers and producers of rodeos like the American can accept men running barrels and I am perfectly cool with that.
I just feel the WPRA barrel races, at PRCA rodeos and elsewhere, should stay women only.
|
|
| |
|
Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | bennie1 - 2014-03-08 1:05 PM My two cents.
Saying keeping the barrel race WPRA and women only in PRCA rodeos is "tradition" is a gross oversimplification of how barrel racing came to be a part of Pro rodeo.
Rodeo was different back in the day. Women used to ride broncs and trick ride...trick riding was a judged event, not a contract act.
After the death of a female bronc rider, that event was discontinued. I'm not sure why trick riding faded out.
Anywho, barrel racing evolved and was accepted as a way to add some color, flash and femininity to the sport.
Not everyone was on board. Several stock contractors and committees wouldn't have barrel racing, or if they did, they would offer unsanctioned barrel races or far less added money.
The ladies who pioneered barrel racing in rodeo fought to make it accepted and a legitimate part of the rodeos.
They wore fancy shirts and dress pants with no back pockets because jeans were not allowed early on. They carried flags and set pivots for grand entry because that was a way to get stock contractors to be more accepting of the barrel race.
As time went on, barrel racing became more accepted due to the efforts of the GRA and later the WPRA. They achieved getting the WPRA sanctioned barrel race into such rodeos as Fort Worth, Cheyenne and Pendelton...no small feats!
I think because of barrel racing in rodeo, barrel racing became vastly popular nationwide and in all sorts of venues...all because of what these ladies fought for and achieved. And men in increasing numbers run barrels for fun and profit.
Now that the money and prestige is there to win at PRCA rodeos and the NFR, some male barrel racers want a shot at it. I understand that. I am against it. I think the organizers and producers of rodeos like the American can accept men running barrels and I am perfectly cool with that.
I just feel the WPRA barrel races, at PRCA rodeos and elsewhere, should stay women only.
Thank you!!! |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | That is interesting, Bennie. I didn't know that. Thanks!
Basically, you gave a great account of how women were able to secure a spot in pro rodeo, without having added pressure of male competition. They feel they earned it, hence the "WPRA". The name itself will sufficiently keep men out of pro rodeo, let's face it. As long as the WPRA has cornered the market and shut men out of barrel racing, there is nothing to fear. Men won't be flocking to enter pro rodeo, so long as the WPRA is in control. Women will have to hold on to this gimmick, and that is, in effect, what it is. That's their right. I defend their right to refuse to allow men to compete in barrel racing in pro rodeo. I just think it discriminates without a good reason.....apart from "tradition". It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
I would like to think that most people enjoy watching barrel racing because they like to see the good horsemanship on good horses, and that all the pretty bling and fashion is of secondary importance. Maybe I'm wrong.....maybe they couldn't care less.
This argument is actually, in many ways, quite analagous to what baseball went through before 1947. Men with dark skin were banned from major league baseball, and the affiliated minor leagues.
After all, it was Abner Doubleday, a white man, who invented the sport, and white men paid their dues by participating in it from 1839. It wasn't until around the turn of the century that Blacks were even allowed to play baseball. It was a white man's game.....until the Negro Leagues and later Jackie Robinson finally broke the color line.
I see a lot of similarity with your line of thinking.
I think and hope the American will be remembered as a breakthrough. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
.
You kind of had me moving toward your side until this asinine statement.......... |
|
| |
|
Saint Stacey
| I agree with NJJ. That was a very asinine statement.
If I remember right.... "The Million Dollar Cowboy" didn't make it out of Waco to qualify for the American.
Remind me why you think woman fear the competition???
Edited by SKM 2014-03-08 3:58 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-08 3:15 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
. You kind of had me moving toward your side until this asinine statement..........
What precisely do you find "assinine" about what amounts to a hunch, on my part? I was speculating, basically searching for a plausible reason.
I'm not running for public office, Norma, so I'm not looking for your vote.
I doubt you need my input to sway your opinion, one way or another.
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | SKM - 2014-03-08 3:57 PM I agree with NJJ. That was a very asinine statement.
If I remember right.... "The Million Dollar Cowboy" didn't make it out of Waco to qualify for the American.
Remind me why you think woman fear the competition???
If not that, then why wouldn't they want men to compete with them? Oh I forgot.....tradition. If men were allowed to compete in barrel racing at PRCA rodeos, then is it not true that this would provide more competition? Would it seem likely that a few would begin to qualify for the NFR? That was what I was thinking. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 4:01 PM NJJ - 2014-03-08 3:15 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
. You kind of had me moving toward your side until this asinine statement..........
I'm not running for public office, Norma, so I'm not looking for your vote.
I doubt you need my input to sway your opinion, one way or another.
Dont' you feel like this.......
Edited by NJJ 2014-03-08 4:21 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. |
|
| |
|
Saint Stacey
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Edited by SKM 2014-03-08 5:27 PM
|
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? |
|
| |
|
A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | To me if the women that run against the men in the 4D's and the bigger races, futurity's and if they were fearing the men dont you think that the women would be having fits about the men that they are running against now? And holy cow the men kick butts all over the place, but no complaints from the women. I hope and pray that the NFR stays just the way it is now. The women worked so darn hard to be where they are now so I hope that it stays this way. 
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-03-08 6:03 PM
|
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-08 5:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? That is true. I don't see this point in arguing. If at any time 15 women could and would qualify in all other events: bareback, saddle bronc, bull riding, steer wrestling, team roping, and calf roping...and I mean in all events, then this wouldn't be an issue. People can say women can compete in PRCA, but that doesn't mean any would qualify for those events at the NFR. I don't ever see a bunch of women being able to compete in those events at the NFR level. I do however know there are way over 15 men who could if they wanted to haul compete and make it to the NFR in barrel racing. I would hate to see a time when the NFR has NO or maybe just a couple women competing. I don't think men are superior in barrel racing. I am just saying men could qualify if they wanted. I don't see women qualifying in the other events I mentioned no matter how much they wanted it. All the women saying open the WPRA up to men better get their PRCA card & start bull dogging, riding bulls, riding broncs, and roping like the NFR men so this will all be "equal". For me it wouldn't be that the women are afraid of competition from men. It is just the chance after everything there could easily be even less than 15 women at the NFR one year. I am not a big wimp, but I know for darn sure Ote Berry in retirement can bulldog better than I ever would and I am not afraid to admit it. Lol
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-08 8:02 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Do you know who trained Stingray?
|
|
| |
|
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Not anyone you mentioned. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-08 5:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar?
I'd say that is pretty accurate.
So, let me ask......would it be fair if men were allowed to hang onto everything they developed "collectively"? Should it work both ways, or just selectively?
Men participating in pro rodeo, even if they comprise only 10% of the entrants, would increase the level of competition. I don't see how that can be refuted. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | CYA Ranch - 2014-03-08 7:28 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
I obviously didn't mention every male futurity rider and every trainer. I just threw out a few examples. What's your point, Val? |
|
| |
|
 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-09 3:20 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 4:01 PM NJJ - 2014-03-08 3:15 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
. You kind of had me moving toward your side until this asinine statement..........
I'm not running for public office, Norma, so I'm not looking for your vote.
I doubt you need my input to sway your opinion, one way or another.
Oh come one Norma, there are certainly some women in the WPRA who do not want to include men because of the competition. They didn't want to include younger riders either after Fallon Taylor did so well for fear there would be too many kids that dominated. One argument I heard for that was that it is the "Womens Professional Rodeo Association" and these women need to be able to make a living with rodeo where the kids do not.
|
|
| |
|
Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar?
This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets. |
|
| |
|
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:31 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-03-08 7:28 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
I was just answering your question Doc and from any post I've made on this thread you know my thoughts. Sorry if that offends you but its the way I feel. I have no problem if guys do the 4D's and futurities but the WPRA needs to stay the way it is for no other reason than it was started for women and it should stay for women. |
|
| |
|
Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM
That is interesting, Bennie. I didn't know that. Thanks!
Basically, you gave a great account of how women were able to secure a spot in pro rodeo, without having added pressure of male competition. They feel they earned it, hence the "WPRA". The name itself will sufficiently keep men out of pro rodeo, let's face it. As long as the WPRA has cornered the market and shut men out of barrel racing, there is nothing to fear. Men won't be flocking to enter pro rodeo, so long as the WPRA is in control. Women will have to hold on to this gimmick, and that is, in effect, what it is. That's their right. I defend their right to refuse to allow men to compete in barrel racing in pro rodeo. I just think it discriminates without a good reason.....apart from "tradition". It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
I would like to think that most people enjoy watching barrel racing because they like to see the good horsemanship on good horses, and that all the pretty bling and fashion is of secondary importance. Maybe I'm wrong.....maybe they couldn't care less.
This argument is actually, in many ways, quite analagous to what baseball went through before 1947. Men with dark skin were banned from major league baseball, and the affiliated minor leagues.
After all, it was Abner Doubleday, a white man, who invented the sport, and white men paid their dues by participating in it from 1839. It wasn't until around the turn of the century that Blacks were even allowed to play baseball. It was a white man's game.....until the Negro Leagues and later Jackie Robinson finally broke the color line.
I see a lot of similarity with your line of thinking.
I think and hope the American will be remembered as a breakthrough.
That's right, Doc. You are rodeo barrel racing's "Jackie Robinson". |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | CYA Ranch - 2014-03-08 7:49 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:31 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-03-08 7:28 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Val, you never offend me, and lord knows I love your kuchen. Let's just get that out there! This is just a good spirited debate. I make my case, and others make theirs.
Frankly, I think it's really senseless to make any competition exclusive to gender, when there's no distinct advantage of one gender over the other. In fact, the reverse could be argued, that women have the advantage when weight is considered. I'm still looking for good reasons for keeping men locked out of pro rodeo barrel racing.....so far, in my opinion, I don't see any. That's just my opinion. I think people are getting angry and frustrated just at the idea of men competing in pro rodeo. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets.
That won't happen for, at least, another five years. The PRCA is locked into contracts with the WPRA to provide the barrel racing at the WNFR through 2019.....Now, by that time, I predict that the men won't care because the concept of the "American" will have taken over in the money department. I just don't see any of the men running up and down the road to 50+ rodeos to qualify for the NFR IF (and when) they can win more at rodeos like the American. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-08 8:04 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets.
You may be right there, Norma. |
|
| |
|
Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-09 7:04 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets.
I would say you are right there, Norma. Men are going to go where the money is, IMO that is why you see so many of them in futurities. There may not be a lot of men who want to pound the rodeo road to try to make it to the NFR. But, if the right opportunity came along, the guys might want to make a bid for the NFR as the money keeps getting bigger there. The PRCA may at some time decide not to renew the contract with the WPRA.
Edited by Hollywood's Fan 2014-03-08 8:11 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Just as an aside, I just want to post this run by Bob Manor. I know June Holeman was the darling of the American, because she is such a nice person and a heck of a hand....plus she is 70 1/2. Everyone who has followed barrel racing and rodeo knows June. Everyone loves her. Bob is about as good as they come, in spite of his age....which I believe is 77-78!!! I would LOVE to see Bob run at the American, and when I see him I am going to encourage him to take a shot at it. Not that many people outside of the midwest know Bob very well. Here he's on his good stud, but he rides all his horses this way.
http://www.barrelhorseworld.com/horsedetail.asp?id=181850 |
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-08 8:24 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I can't get the hyperlink to work. Try to C&P this, if you want to see a man approaching 80 show you how it's done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?=9yei4lIzVv4&feature=youtube_gdata
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:21 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
You do see that your comments seem contradictory, don't you?
Does anyone see the day where no women would make it to the NFR?
If that's what you fear, then you are saying that you think men might dominate the sport. Are men that much better? I doubt many here would agree with you. |
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:30 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:21 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
Does anyone see the day where no women would make it to the NFR?
If that's what you fear, then you are saying that you think men might dominate the sport. Are men that much better? I doubt many here would agree with you.
If we are going to try to twist people's words... let's twist yours..... So you don't think there are 15 men out there who could qualify for the NFR? and you don't think that there is ever a chance men could be the top 15?
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-08 8:38 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:36 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:30 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:21 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
Does anyone see the day where no women would make it to the NFR?
If that's what you fear, then you are saying that you think men might dominate the sport. Are men that much better? I doubt many here would agree with you.
If we are going to try to twist people's words... let's twist yours..... So you don't think there are 15 men out there who could qualify for the NFR? and you don't think that there is ever a chance men could be the top 15?
You said that you would be saddened to see an NFR where no women ran in barrels. If that happened, I would think that in that particular year men dominated. I didn't "twist" your words. I just thought you sounded contradictory and that probably irritates you.
|
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:48 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:36 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:30 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:21 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
Does anyone see the day where no women would make it to the NFR?
If that's what you fear, then you are saying that you think men might dominate the sport. Are men that much better? I doubt many here would agree with you.
If we are going to try to twist people's words... let's twist yours..... So you don't think there are 15 men out there who could qualify for the NFR? and you don't think that there is ever a chance men could be the top 15?
Do you think there would be a chance the top 15 could be men if men were allowed? What do you really think?
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-08 9:12 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:55 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:48 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:36 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:30 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:21 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
Does anyone see the day where no women would make it to the NFR?
If that's what you fear, then you are saying that you think men might dominate the sport. Are men that much better? I doubt many here would agree with you.
If we are going to try to twist people's words... let's twist yours..... So you don't think there are 15 men out there who could qualify for the NFR? and you don't think that there is ever a chance men could be the top 15?
Do you think there would be a chance the top 15 could be men if men were allowed? What do you really think?
I'm trying to be polite, but you don't even make sense. The scenario you posed was one where no women qualified for the NFR. That means men dominate in your hypothetical scenario, which I might add is about as likely as pigs flying....nonetheless, I suppose that is a possibility. The more likely extreme scenario, in my opinion, would be a year where all women qualify, even if men were allowed to compete.
You said, "I guess the top 15 at the NFR dominated the WPRA" This made me scratch my head. Then, to further make me wonder about you, you said, " I think it is an equal playing field with the exception that presently there are probably more women barrel racers than men. Ya think??? Am I missing something, or do you simply not know what you're talking about?
Edited by HotbearLVR 2014-03-08 9:21 PM
|
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 9:14 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:55 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:48 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:36 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:30 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:21 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
Does anyone see the day where no women would make it to the NFR?
If that's what you fear, then you are saying that you think men might dominate the sport. Are men that much better? I doubt many here would agree with you.
If we are going to try to twist people's words... let's twist yours..... So you don't think there are 15 men out there who could qualify for the NFR? and you don't think that there is ever a chance men could be the top 15?
Do you think there would be a chance the top 15 could be men if men were allowed? What do you really think?
You said, "I guess the top 15 at the NFR dominated the WPRA" This made me scratch my head. Am I missing something, or do you simply not know what you're talking about?
My reference to equal playing field I actually meant both genders are able to compete at a top level. I didn't mean it was equal in numbers of competitors. Sorry about that misunderstanding.
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-08 9:31 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | sodapop - 2014-03-08 9:18 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 9:14 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:55 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:48 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:36 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:30 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:21 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
Does anyone see the day where no women would make it to the NFR?
If that's what you fear, then you are saying that you think men might dominate the sport. Are men that much better? I doubt many here would agree with you.
If we are going to try to twist people's words... let's twist yours..... So you don't think there are 15 men out there who could qualify for the NFR? and you don't think that there is ever a chance men could be the top 15?
Do you think there would be a chance the top 15 could be men if men were allowed? What do you really think?
You said, "I guess the top 15 at the NFR dominated the WPRA" This made me scratch my head. Am I missing something, or do you simply not know what you're talking about?
So, use whatever word you wish. I choose to say that scenario that you described would be one in which one gender happened to dominate in that year. Now you are getting silly. What would you prefer I call it?
If the US olympic ski team wins all the medals in the downhill, that is considered a dominant performance. The press would say the US ski team dominated that event. Do you find that offensive too? |
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 9:29 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 9:18 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 9:14 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:55 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:48 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:36 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 8:30 PM sodapop - 2014-03-08 8:21 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share? .
Does anyone see the day where no women would make it to the NFR?
If that's what you fear, then you are saying that you think men might dominate the sport. Are men that much better? I doubt many here would agree with you.
If we are going to try to twist people's words... let's twist yours..... So you don't think there are 15 men out there who could qualify for the NFR? and you don't think that there is ever a chance men could be the top 15?
Do you think there would be a chance the top 15 could be men if men were allowed? What do you really think?
You said, "I guess the top 15 at the NFR dominated the WPRA" This made me scratch my head. Am I missing something, or do you simply not know what you're talking about?
If the US olympic ski team wins all the medals in the downhill, that is considered a dominant performance. The press would say the US ski team dominated that event. Do you find that offensive too?
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-08 9:45 PM
|
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets.
Edited by Three 4 Luck 2014-03-09 10:31 AM
|
|
| |
|
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | Let the guys run..... kick their butt and take their money.
I have to say some of you are making me scratch my head! You want the WPRA to stay women only. Tradition and all. But, you also claim the American will take over and kill the NFR. So which tradition is important again?
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
|
|
| |
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Personally, I would prefer the WPRA/NFR to stay just women. This is from a spectator's perspective, BTW
Women bring a certain style and grace to the NFR. The glitz, the glamour, and the tradition together.... I will admit, I love it! I don't rodeo, and I run against men at 4D's all the time. Sometimes I beat them, sometimes they beat me. Doesn't bother me at all, and I like having the guys around.
There is just something about rodeo... the "show", the tradition, and the style. The sum of those ideas is something beautiful to watch in the barrel racing.
No offense, but it's just not as exciting to watch a dude under the lights. I still admire their skill (no doubt), as they would likely outride me any day of the week. They are also still fun to watch, for sure. There is just something about the grace and style of the NFR ladies I think is more fun to watch.
JMO |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money.... |
|
| |
|
Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| https://www.storyrealm.com/browse-stories/little-red-hen/ |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152242355289140&set=a.1015... |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | |
|
| |
|
Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Let the guys run..... kick their butt and take their money.
I have to say some of you are making me scratch my head! You want the WPRA to stay women only. Tradition and all. But, you also claim the American will take over and kill the NFR. So which tradition is important again?
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
In 13 pages not one person has said that American would replace the PRCA or the NFR. It may vary well force them to change their format but no one has said that it would replace. |
|
| |
|
 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | I think it's fine the way it is.... |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR |
Good point!!!!!!! |
|
| |
|
Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-10 7:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
I agree with this. I think what the American did was show some folks that the PRCA does not have to be the only game in town. It did give the cowboys and cowgirls some real money to run at. If RFD TV gets behind a new association, the sky could be the limit because they have a venue to get to the audience 365 days a year, 24/7. The sponsors are going to flock to that kind of exposure. Those changes could bring men into barrel racing on the same level as women (within that association) and it could happen fairly quickly. I would say within the next few years. Some big money folks wanted the NFR to be here in Texas and the PRCA, after toying with the idea (basically using this as a bargaining chip) stayed in Vegas. Don't you think those folks might take it upon themselves to build their own event to compete with the NFR? Just wait and see. I think it is quite possible. |
|
| |
|
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | NJJ - 2014-03-09 8:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
NJJ,
This isn't the first time the PRCA and contestants have been at odds. There were serious disscusions of a stike during the late 80's. And no internet / no cell phones to communicate with.
But, every rodeo from $300.00 added to Houston and Cheyenne had "meetings". And of course the Turtles were born from the same issues.
I have no issue with folks making more money. BUT, I am realistic enough to know that sponsor dollars are the all important factor.
karen
|
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-09 11:17 AM NJJ - 2014-03-10 7:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
I would love to see it too. I think variety and choices are good for the sport. I love the American qualification format. I would never ever in a million years make the NFR or even IFR, even with a SuperHorse freak of nature that could spank everyone's butt because Travel and I do not get along. I admire the grit of those who survive and flourish on the traditional rodeo road, but it's not something I aspire to myself and I know there are many out there who feel the same way. |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-09 11:17 AM NJJ - 2014-03-10 7:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
Add to the mix that the PRCA crapped on RFD-TV for the TV rights of the NFR and then turned around and will PAY CBS Sports channel to broadcast it...... |
|
| |
|
Saint Stacey
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 6:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Yes, Ryan Lovendale trained Stringray. But while Stringray is an awesome rodeo horse, I don't believe she did well in the futurites.
There are very few horses out there that do well in futurites that go on to be rodeo horses. They are simply fried.
Rodeos are not the same as futurites and big 4D's. So while many men do well as futurity trainers, I honestly don't see them as having competitve rodeo horses. Hence why I was asking how many horses have they done well on have you heard about after they turn 7?
You said women fear the competition, hence why they are against men in the WPRA. If you are a man that has clients that you train for with futurities in mind, are you going to be able to haul and make the NFR? Are they going to have an actual rodeo horse that can stand the hauling and trash ground? Probably not. So your statement is comparing apples to oranges. |
|
| |
|
Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20916
Location: LouLouVille, OK | I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word
Edited by cindyt 2014-03-09 11:46 AM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word
Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
|
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
You most certainly have presented valid arguments....
However, to be accurate........On a site comprised of 99% women...only 60% (OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY VOTED) feel that the status quo should remain.....At any given time approx. 2000 (more or less) are "online" so the mere 236 who voted comprise only 10% of the reading membership.....I would really be interested in a true poll.......
Edited by NJJ 2014-03-09 2:27 PM
|
|
| |
|
Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20916
Location: LouLouVille, OK | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
Edited by cindyt 2014-03-09 2:35 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
That's classy. |
|
| |
|
Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | SKM - 2014-03-10 10:32 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 6:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
There are very few horses out there that do well in futurites that go on to be rodeo horses. They are simply fried.
Rodeos are not the same as futurites and big 4D's. So while many men do well as futurity trainers, I honestly don't see them as having competitve rodeo horses. Hence why I was asking how many horses have they done well on have you heard about after they turn 7?
You said women fear the competition, hence why they are against men in the WPRA. If you are a man that has clients that you train for with futurities in mind, are you going to be able to haul and make the NFR? Are they going to have an actual rodeo horse that can stand the hauling and trash ground? Probably not. So your statement is comparing apples to oranges.
Stacey, while I agree with some of what you are saying, it seems to me that you are placing all men barrel racers under the label "futurity rider". The men who are "professional" and the most successful in our sport, currently do mainly compete in futurities, because that is where the money is. If big money rodeo events which had previously been closed to them (like the NFR) were to open up to them, that may change. If I am not mistaken Clint Sherlin, the only man to make the finals at the American, does train and run futurity horses as well.
It is true that a good futurity horse and a good rodeo horse are often two different types of animals (although some horses like Stingray or LR Designerwood owned by Blake and Tracy Monroe who ran futurites have proven otherwise). But, if men were to set their sights on competing in rodeos, then they may start training their horses accordingly too. This would just make sense. Currently, a lot of futurity horses have been used very hard as youngsters and they don't have the mind or body left to compete on the rodeo trail. But the men may save their good ones for rodeo if they can make good money doing so. They are going to put their focus where the money is, simple as that. |
|
| |
|
Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:55 PM
cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
Sounds like she just threw her sucker in the dirt Doc. LOL |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-09 2:26 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
You most certainly have presented valid arguments....
However, to be accurate........On a site comprised of 99% women...only 60% (OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY VOTED) feel that the status quo should remain.....At any given time approx. 2000 (more or less) are "online" so the mere 236 who voted comprise only 10% of the reading membership.....I would really be interested in a true poll.......
Oh, I agree. Obviously, it's not a poll in the scientific sense. I still am very surprised. I would expect more like a 90-10 split if there was an actual scientific poll, at best. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | jbhoot - 2014-03-09 2:58 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:55 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
Sounds like she just threw her sucker in the dirt Doc. LOL
I know, buddy. I feel like a goldfish in a pirhana tank on this subject. You are the other goldfish! LOL. This subject touches a raw nerve with many. Everyone knows why.....it's just that if you just come out and say it you are widely reviled. Cindy was just brave enough to come out and express that. She showed how she really feels. |
|
| |
|
Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-10 10:28 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-09 11:17 AM NJJ - 2014-03-10 7:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
Frankly Norma, I think the PRCA crapped on some folks that just might not take it lightly. I think they may have spawned competition for themselves, which would be a good thing for rodeo, maybe not so good for the PRCA, only time will tell. IMO, the American was a test to see how something new might be received. Again, time will tell, but RFD TV seems like the natural venue to showcase the sport of rodeo. I sure liked the coverage of the events of the American better than the sometimes half assed coverage of the NFR. Next year, I would attend the American live before I would the NFR. I think the crowd there was electric and everyone I know that did attend said the same thing. |
|
| |
|
Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-10 1:55 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
Cindy, I think he is going into elaborate explanations (examples) because the simple version doesn't seem to be getting through to some folks. No need for personal attacks though.
I have read some of the arguments from women on here and am embarrassed for them at how ridiculous they sound. "Women don't fear the competition of men." Of course some of them do. The truth is, if these women were not afraid that men would be good competition and might take some of the money at rodeo's, they they wouldn't care if they entered or not. An entry that doesn't win anything is just another donation to the pot. So, if a person feels they have a good chance at getting a piece of the pot, why wouldn't you want it bigger? But, if you feel the competion might take that pot, well...that is the fear.
If a person thinks the NFR should exclude men, you are entitled to that opinion and I wouldn't even argue it. I do find it odd though, that the PRCA states in its rules that it is not gender biased and then they contract with the WPRA who is gender biased. Seems like a contradiction to me.
Some women may welcome the men as competitors and some may not. I do think that with the introduction of the American, there may be some changes on the horizon in rodeo, period. Including men may likely be one of them. |
|
| |
|
Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20916
Location: LouLouVille, OK | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-09 3:21 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-10 1:55 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
I have read some of the arguments from women on here and am embarrassed for them at how ridiculous they sound. "Women don't fear the competition of men." Of course some of them do. The truth is, if these women were not afraid that men would be good competition and might take some of the money at rodeo's, they they wouldn't care if they entered or not. An entry that doesn't win anything is just another donation to the pot. So, if a person feels they have a good chance at getting a piece of the pot, why wouldn't you want it bigger? But, if you feel the competion might take that pot, well...that is the fear.
If a person thinks the NFR should exclude men, you are entitled to that opinion and I wouldn't even argue it. I do find it odd though, that the PRCA states in its rules that it is not gender biased and then they contract with the WPRA who is gender biased. Seems like a contradiction to me.
Some women may welcome the men as competitors and some may not. I do think that with the introduction of the American, there may be some changes on the horizon in rodeo, period. Including men may likely be one of them.
Funny how you ask a question and get accused of attacking someone...lol
the whole thing makes me laugh
My sucker isn't in the dirt, but Im not going to get into a pi$$in contest over my opinions with anyone, we all have one and we are entitled to them
Edited by cindyt 2014-03-09 4:21 PM
|
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I don't equate not wanting to share something to a fear response. I don't share my chocolate either cause I'm a greedy biatch. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 5:04 PM I don't equate not wanting to share something to a fear response. I don't share my chocolate either cause I'm a greedy biatch.
I know it was meant to be funny, but it was also meant to be a message.
Think about that statement.....the one you just made. |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 5:18 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 5:04 PM I don't equate not wanting to share something to a fear response. I don't share my chocolate either cause I'm a greedy biatch.
Think about that statement.....the one you just made.
Oh, I know exactly the message hidden in the humor there. It wasn't an accident.
Edited by Three 4 Luck 2014-03-09 5:25 PM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 5:23 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 5:18 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 5:04 PM I don't equate not wanting to share something to a fear response. I don't share my chocolate either cause I'm a greedy biatch.
Think about that statement.....the one you just made. Oh, I know exactly the message hidden in the humor there. It wasn't an accident.
Good! I just wanted to be sure.
|
|
| |
Rodeo poll. Open to all? Or stay the same?