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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
   
Location: North Dakota | Alrighty. I've been asking lots of questions about saddle fit lately, and now I'm finally actually trying some over the next couple days. I'll be posting pictures as I go to get everyone's opinion.
This morning I tried a Martin Crown C with a 7" gullet. I feel in order for this saddle to work, I would need to shim it. It was sitting a little bit downhhill on him, and where I have my hand in the photo I feel like it wasn't making as much contact with him as the lower part was (if that makes sense).
I have a 5 Star pad on him that is 1/2 inch thick. Yes, he is a little chunky right now, but he's not as bad as the picture portrays. He just one of those horses that have a big lookin' barrel.
Overall, I was not a huge fan of how the Crown C fit him. I currently use a Circle Y (will get some pictures in a couple days) which isn't all that bad, but I feel like it's a teensy tight on his withers and I could do better for him. Of course, unless I'd get a good pad / shim to change the Crown C, I think I honestly like my Circle Y better out of the two.
I will also get some photos of my horse's bare back in a couple days. The wind was a little chilly this morning.
What do you guys think of the Martin Crown C?
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| I would say no, the theory behind crown c is they all need to be shimmed, behind the shoulders.
Saddle fit is all about feel without the pad on you need to feel under the saddle and feel for any tight spots, and uneven pressure. If you find uneven pressure then it doesn't fit |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| Nope. That doesn't fit. Now imagine how it's going to sit with you in it. It's going to push down even further on the withers. Why buy a saddle if you need shims?
Have you tried Corriente? I only ask because my friend runs a horse built like yours and a corriente fit him perfect. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Thanks guys, that's kinda what's going through my mind too. I did have the saddle on him without my pad (didn't take any pictures of it) and I just didn't feel that it sat EVEN on him. I know that there are a lot of people who are big fans of the Crown C but I don't know if I like the idea of having to shim a saddle to make it fit. 
I have not tried a Corriente on him. I probably would be able to track one down to try though. I haven't yet because I have the feeling it would be just about the same as my Circle Y which I will take new pictures of on Sunday for all to see.  |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Okay! Took a bunch of pictures today of my current saddle. It is a Smith Brothers Circle Y saddle with full quarter horse bars. Will be trying a Triple Creek tomorrow.
Just "the horse".
The saddle just sitting on his back. Where I have my hand is where I feel like my saddle is a teeny bit tight. This is kind of why I am looking for a little bit better fit for him. Thoughts?
The saddle cinched up. Again, it is a 5 Star pad 1/2 inch thickness.
The saddle still cinched after we got back from riding (sweaty horse!!).
His back right after I took the saddle off. The area I circled is where sometimes there is a bit of a dry spot.
What does everyone think of my current saddle?
It's not a terrible bit, but I just feel like I could do a little better where those conchos are in the front.
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | It looks to me like your current saddle is too narrow but the Crown C is too wide. I personally wouldn't buy a saddle I had to shim but that's just me. I have Cactus CJ's that I bought for 3 horses I ran a few years ago. A newer horse I bought the saddles are a bit wide so I will shim a bit but she's young and will fill out so I won't be shimming for long. |
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 Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | I would try a Crates Meleta Brown on him. I have one and it fits every horse I ride. I also have a Martin racer and it made one of my horses very sore but fits others pretty well.
It is not just the gullet you have to take into account but also the shape of the bars. My Martin is built flat in the bars so it works best on a flat backed horse. The Crates bars in comparison to work better on a horse with more of a curve to their back. But like I said it really seems to fit everything.
How old is your horse? He looks a little downhill but that might be the photo angle. If he is you will probably need to shim or buy a special pad for him no matter what saddle you buy. But if he is young his back will change over time and you could then most likely move to a regular pad. |
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 Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | ninaom - 2014-03-09 7:39 AM I would try a Crates Meleta Brown on him. I have one and it fits every horse I ride. I also have a Martin racer and it made one of my horses very sore but fits others pretty well. It is not just the gullet you have to take into account but also the shape of the bars. My Martin is built flat in the bars so it works best on a flat backed horse. The Crates bars in comparison to work better on a horse with more of a curve to their back. But like I said it really seems to fit everything. How old is your horse? He looks a little downhill but that might be the photo angle. If he is you will probably need to shim or buy a special pad for him no matter what saddle you buy. But if he is young his back will change over time and you could then most likely move to a regular pad.
I was about the post this. Try a Crates Meleta Brown. Your horse is built a lot like mine, and it is the only saddle that we can get to fit him halfway decent. Not to mention Meleta is AMAZING to talk to about horses, saddles, and life in general. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | He does look downhill, and he has a pretty short back. I would worry that the crown c is too "long" for his back and will stick him in the hip when he turns.
You do need to shim that crown c and re-check the fit if you would want to use that saddle. They are not built to sit the same as other brands, as I am sure you know. My horse is much narrower in the wither than the back, due to atrophy, so I would probably need to shim any saddle right now, so I use the shims.
I really like the Crown C's, but if you are not wanting to shim, I would look at something else. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | One other thing, it looks like your current saddle is sliding back behind the should, which is probably why you are seeing dry spots sometimes. It looks like it probably pitches you forward when it does that
My old saddle was too narrow, and I experienced something similar (but didn't have dry spots)
Your horse does look wide in the twist. And wider in the back than the shoulders. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Just my personal opinion, but you should never have to shim any saddle if it actually fits your horse. But that is only my opinion. I have an album on facebook that Meleta is helping me with if anybody wants the link to see it. It may or may not have helpful information for anyone but I have a lot of pics and she has commented and answered a lot of questions.
I think if you are shimming the saddle to get it to fit, then keep looking for something that fits better. You may not ever find it, I never did, but I have what works best for my horse.
I'm also one of the very very few people who don't believe in these ultra wide gullets. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Thanks everyone. My horse is going to be 8 this year. I agree that my pictures does make him look downhill but he really isn't.
The triple creek I was gonna try today got sold. :-/. I do at least have bare trees coming from triple creek that I can try on him. I also ordered a Lisa Lockhart flex2 wide barrel saddle last night to try.
I'll have to keep the Crates saddle in mind if these two don't seem to work out.
I am in the same mindset that I would like the saddle to fit without shimming. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | Just throwing another brand at you. Coats saddlery will send you trees or if you are Able you can go in and get him fitted. I just did that and he is actually combining two trees to make one that will fit my hard to fit horse. They have 2 different lines available. One is the custom coats which Is more expensive and then the lazy l. Just food for thought. Saddle fitting can be such a nightmare. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I did kinda look into the Coats brand. I'll certainly keep it as an option if one of these two (Triple Creek or Lisa Lockhart) does not fit him. I was a little leery about trying Coats though because if I had to custom order something special to fit my horse 1) I don't want to wait over a year to get a saddle 2) there's a chance my horse might not be sound for barrel racing. He's got a catching stifle and I'm going to do all that I can to get him sound, but of course there's still that chance. I'd really hate to custom order a saddle that is just for him, if he ends up not being able to barrel race. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 452
Location: Texas | We have a 3 yo DTF with a sticky stifle. Farrier took the inside of her heel down to open up the stifle and we havent seen a problem since. Been about 3 wks and it was super bad when we bought her. The vet also said for$150 they can do a simple procedure to build up the scar tissue in there to fix it. Also, lots of hill work.
Just a few thoughts in case you werent aware :-). Good luck |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | lzysranch - 2014-03-10 10:23 AM We have a 3 yo DTF with a sticky stifle. Farrier took the inside of her heel down to open up the stifle and we havent seen a problem since. Been about 3 wks and it was super bad when we bought her. The vet also said for$150 they can do a simple procedure to build up the scar tissue in there to fix it. Also, lots of hill work. Just a few thoughts in case you werent aware :-). Good luck
Oh trust me.... my vet and I know each other VERY well.  Going to try injecting his stifle next week and see how he does with that. His isn't real bad by any means, but it is there and it does bother him in a barrel turn. (He's not using his butt like he should.) I don't want to go the scar tissue route yet because it's very painful for the horse, so we're trying injections first.
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 417
Location: CA | First saddle looks too big, second looks too small. Just a suggestion so please don't be offended, but you might want to get your gelding back in shape before trying new saddles as it might affect the fit.
I think saddle fit and preference will be different for everyone, as all horses and riders are different. I ride in a crown c with an 8in gullet and have never had to shim it. Fits all my mares well. |
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 No Name Nancy
Posts: 2715
Location: never in the right place | Meleta has a new wide fit tree, currently only in a 15" but she is loaning 1 out to try. Call her and get on the list if you are interested. It should arrive at my house tomorrow and I will have 1 or so weeks to try it and then I have to send it to the next person. A 15 is too big but I wanted to see how it fit my horse, she is having trouble cutting down the tree size and keeping the correct dimensions. Her board name is wimpyb and her email is thesaddlefitter@yahoo.com |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Grunt: No offense taken. Yes, he is out-of-shape at the moment, but he really isn't carrying that much extra weight right now. (I'm actually very happy he didn't pack on a ton of winter weight.) He is a "beefy" built horse. He doesn't slim down to look like a running-type. I have had people tell me he needs to lose weight ... when it's the middle of the summer and he doesn't. It's just kinda how he is.  But I can understand what you are saying.
ctdrumrun: Thank you for the contact information. I'll have to do that. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Tried some more saddles!
Had the horses at the vet today and my vet let me try on her saddle. She has a Double J Pro Wide. I really liked how the front of the saddle looked on his shoulders, but I think it might be just a hair wide because it was sitting downhill on him. We did not cinch it up; we just set it on his back. I would imagine it would become more downhill when it would be cinched up tight.
Thoughts??
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I also got trees from Triple Creek. I've never seen a bare tree on a horse before so that was kind of neat.
First I tried the REGULAR quarter horse tree. I can see right away that that is too narrow.
Then I tried the FULL quarter horse tree. It looked pretty decent on his shoulders. However, I am concerned because the saddle seems to be "bridging" across his back. I could easily fit my hand underneath the center of the tree.
Thoughts???
(He's really not as fat as this^^ picture makes him look. )
So far I think I have struck out on every saddle.  There's just been something not quite right with each one.
I'm still waiting for my Lisa Lockhart Flex2 Wide saddle to arrive. And I've got my fingers crossed.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | So far I think your vet's saddle looks best.
I agree, the triple creek is not going to suit, the bridging was the first thing I noticed on both trees.
Please continue to post everything, this is an awesome journey to share with you. There are so many posts about saddle fit without photos, this has been great to look at. (Not fun for you though.)
I do agree with others that he needs to be fitter because his shape will change especially through the back. Without having a saddle to fit makes it harder to do this though.
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 Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | I posted this EXACT same issue a couple weeks ago and most of these girls told me the same thing with my 8" Crown C--too big. Some of the suggestions I got were Meleta, the Lisa Lockhart Circle Y wide tree, Lynn McKenzie Double J wide tree, and I'm blanking on the other. . .Anyway, I actually like the way the BP Double J looks on him. My mare is not as "beefy" as yours is, but my gelding is built almost just like him. Ideally, I would love to find a saddle that fits both. Meleta gave me the name of a lady near me that has her saddles, so I plan on seeing if I can try one of hers when I get my Crown C sold (ironically it fits my skinny, Thoroughbred looking 3 year old colt the best lol). |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | I'd say no to both the Triple Creeks and the Double J is too wide in front? So you would have to shim it or go for a little smaller gullet. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 365
| I love my Flex2! Most comfortable saddle I've rode in. And it fits great, my horse is wide and short backed. Well you've seen pictures of him. One suggestion I want to make and you can take it or leave it. I'd look for a round skirted saddle since he has a short back so it doesn't effect his hips. |
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 Cinnamon Honey One
Posts: 6549
Location: between here and there | Being too tight on the shoulders equates to hobbling their front legs. And yes, the full bar tree is bridging & you called it correctly. Now, that said, your horse needs to be in better shape, not for the weight as much as he needs to be using his stomach muscles more to lift his back. I would guess you've had other saddles on him that were bridging and were too tight in the shoulders. Do you see where this is going with his conditioning?? If you get him into shape, his shape will change and you may have to start over with fitting. Hope this makes sense! Fitting is no different than anything else we do with our horses. Bits, shoes, pads all need to be checked and changed when necessary. Saddles are the same, just initially more expensive. |
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Location: Beneath the Cypress trees | Have you considered trying a roping, ranch, or wade saddle instead of a barrel saddle? The only reason that I ask is because I went through a ton of saddles with my horse (both English and barrel racing), but nothing fit him. Years ago I took a wade saddle on trial and it fit him nicely. I couldn't afford it at the time so I passed on it and my search continued.
My current saddle is a perfect fit. It is an older ranch/roping saddle. It is heavy, it is plain, the seat is hard, and someone over oiled it at some point in its life, but I would not trade that thing for a Cadillac, it took waaay too long to find. I thought for sure that the weight would be an issue but he runs much more freely in the well fitted 50ib. saddle than in an almost fitting saddle half that weight.
Your boy is round and compact, much like mine. You may have better luck with a different type of saddle, as the trees are made with different body types in mind. |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| I think that you need to get Fatboy in shape before you try to fi a saddle. I just took my really broad backed mare up to Joseys and the Ultimate with the Semi Quarter horse bars fit like a glove. That is what I ordered. |
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Grammar Expert
| Lucky86 - 2014-03-19 6:43 PM I love my Flex2! Most comfortable saddle I've rode in. And it fits great, my horse is wide and short backed. Well you've seen pictures of him. One suggestion I want to make and you can take it or leave it. I'd look for a round skirted saddle since he has a short back so it doesn't effect his hips.
Can you post your flex saddle??? Would love to see. |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| No matter what you end up with I'd like to see pictures of the saddle not on the horse's shoulder. Move it back a bit so the bars of the tree are not sitting right on top of his shoulders. That should help. Good luck with whatever you end up getting!! |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Whatever you find to fit him now in the condition that he's in isn't likely to fit him once he's actually in shape and free of winter hair. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | First of all, I greatly appreciate everyone's input.
I understand and realize that when he is in better shape that a saddle will fit him better. But I still think I can find something BETTER than my current Circle Y in order to even get him in shape in the first place.
I understand that asking him to stay collected when I ride him will help develop his back muscles better. But I just don't believe that he would build THAT much back muscle to fill in the bridging you see with the Triple Creek tree. ???
Many of you have suggested a Meleta, and I see that WimpyB has joined us in the converstation!!  I was going to wait and see how the Lisa Lockhart fits him (supposed to arrive tomorrow) before decided if I need to try yet another saddle on him. I understand about the muscling, and honest to God I'm probably not the BEST person for asking my horses to collect up all the time. I've gotten almost a solid 2 weeks of riding on him but most of it has been straight lines because it's muddy and slippery. I really like to do circle work with him, but I've been avoiding that for the most part until I can get his stifle injected (which we did yesterday!!). I hope as the ground dries up, and he gets to feeling good, that I can get him into better shape.
And if a saddle looks good now, but not so much when he is in shape, well so be it. Saddle fit is constantly changing. Ideally, it would be great to find something that fits him when he's out-of-shape (for winter riding) and when he is in shape (for summer riding) would be a dream, but probably not going to happen.
Are all the Meleta Brown trees the same? Does anyone has a specific suggestiong on a certain tree for that saddle?
HoneyMoney: Please don't call him "Fatboy". Maybe I'm just having a bad morning, but name calling on my horse is rubbing me the wrong way today.
Brlraceaddict: Am I placing all the saddles too far forward? Or have their just been specific ones?
rachellyn80: Well he's got winter hair at least 5 months out of the year. NOt sure of the idea of having two saddles for him: One for winter hair and one for no winter hair. ??
Edited by r_beau 2014-03-20 2:19 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 209
| Your gelding looks a lot similar to my mare and I've been having the same issues with saddle fit! I tried on a friends calf roping saddle and it fit her like a glove and it was on the Howard Council Tree, I know someone who is getting a barrel saddle built up on that tree by Oxbow Saddlery. I am looking into that tree as well as Tod Slone, they make 3 different trees and can tweak a tree if needed. Might be worth checking out. Best of luck! Saddle fitting is a nightmare. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Okay! Got my Lisa Lockhart Flex2 Wide saddle.
I am not 100% satisfied with the fit. But it's not bad. I noticed right away when I took it out of the box that the part of the saddle by the conchos in front really flared out wide. Not sure how I feel about that?
I feel like it is just a teensy bit wide for him, but I think better than anything I have found thus far. I'd be concerned if I tried the Flex2 Regular, that it would be too small.
What do you guys think? I just set it on his back and did not cinch it down (my trailer is in the shop ... and all my cinches!).
Again, I really appreciate all the help.
***Now his "withers" look high in these pictures but it's just his mane. I tried to throw it over to the other side so it was out of the way. Looking at the pictures, it see that the shadows make his hair look like withers. So look closely!****
Edited by r_beau 2014-03-22 10:15 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| It's all on feel, you need to feel underneath the saddle for even pressure and no tight spots. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | cheryl makofka - 2014-03-22 10:21 AM It's all on feel, you need to feel underneath the saddle for even pressure and no tight spots.
Yup! I did run my hand under it and it seemed to feel pretty even to me. I couldn't feel any spots that seemed to be digging in.
I still like running things by the knowledgeable people on BHW.
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Expert
Posts: 1815
| I think I would make sure it is making contact where the pommel meets skirt..........looks like it is setting pretty far down. I used to use a wide tree Pro Rider and it fit pretty well, but set down like that. Have since put the reg Pro Rider on and it fits great. Just a thought........the reg tree may fit better, but I agree ~ looks better than all the others have |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The debra sibley saddles some people dont like the quality but they fit and i an sorry i sold mine, as it was light and it fit every thing i put it on, its just something you could not rife in every day. Theymare nice sadddles and they fit a lot of different horses. The stirrups you can move around and make then fit you. You need to try one.
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | I think the Lisa fits the best out of all of them. The Lockhart saddle is made for a close contact feel, so as long as the pommel isn't crushing his wither and you've got about 2 fingers distance in there you should be fine. By the time you get a pad on that I think its going to be perfect for him. My horse and your horse are so similarly built its scarey!LOL The lisa fit Flash Em the best out of everything, its just I HATED riding in it.
My suggestion would be to pad him up and ride. Get a good sweat on him and go from there. No saddle is ever going to fit perfect. |
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Expert
Posts: 1815
| The Lockhart has plenty of wither clearance, what I meant by sitting too low, was I don't like where the pommel is sitting pretty far down and right behind the round part of the shoulder.......but previous poster had a great point, the lift of a saddle pad might make it perfect |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | OK, now you need to do what the other posters said, put a pad on him, cinch it up and ride. My first though was I LOVE the way it sits through the seat and back. I do think you need to test it with a pad and cinch to check through the shoulders. I do love the look on him at this point. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Alright, I took it for a spin tonight! Feels weird to me, but I suppose it will. Being as how I've ridden in the SAME saddle for the past 10 years.  I feel like the seat is NOT as deep as my Circle Y is, but I guess it feels okay.
Here it is cinched up with my 5 Star pad that is 1/2" thick. I really like how it looks cinched up.
And there here is when we got back from our ride. Looks like it slid back just a bit. I will try to place it there next time, where it likes to sit. Was getting dark when I got back so I couldn't get an excellent look at his sweat marks and the sweat marks picture didn't turn out, so I will try again tomorrow when it ride. Sweat marks looked okay, but it's so hard to tell with that long winter hair.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!!!!
Can you order a deeper seat/higher cantle now you are on the right track for the tree? |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | rockinj - 2014-03-23 11:11 PM
Can you order a deeper seat/higher cantle now you are on the right track for the tree?
Eh, I'm not too worried about it yet. I think I should be able to get used to the seat.
I'll find out how I like it when I actually get back to running barrels (or should I say, "run" barrels for the first time with him because he's still learning?)
Still can't do much for circle work out there. Tried last night and the ground is still greasy. Hopefully can haul to an indoor on Sunday and work the barrels for the first time this year. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Hey, new thought on the Triple Creek trees we said "no" to earlier.
I also emailed the pictures to Triple Creek to get their opinion. I finally heard back today. They said the full fit him good and that the space I am seeing where it "bridges" is where the stirrup leathers go. I never thought of that. But those stirrup leathers are going to fill in a bit of space there. Now, I'm not sure if they would fill in ALL that space but it would help.
So maybe I have TWO options for saddles, if for some reason the Lisa Lockhart ends up not working out.
Edited by r_beau 2014-03-24 12:15 PM
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Okay. New question although maybe I should almost make a new thread for this.
The saddle seems to roll. I was able to work a barrel tonight at a trot, and just lope some circles. When I stayed in a circle for an extended period with my weight to the outside, the saddle wanted to roll a bit.
I'm using a 5 Star pad that is 1/2" thick. I do have a 3/4". I don't know if that would make a difference. Pad ideas??? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| r_beau - 2014-03-24 11:34 AM
Hey, new thought on the Triple Creek trees we said "no" to earlier.
I also emailed the pictures to Triple Creek to get their opinion. I finally heard back today. They said the full fit him good and that the space I am seeing where it "bridges" is where the stirrup leathers go. I never thought of that. But those stirrup leathers are going to fill in a bit of space there. Now, I'm not sure if they would fill in ALL that space but it would help.
So maybe I have TWO options for saddles, if for some reason the Lisa Lockhart ends up not working out.
I disagree with this as your leathers are not solid, and there will still be the pressure points. From my experience the saddle makers build up the tree with leather on the sides and leave a gap where the saddle leather goes so when the leather goes in the saddle has no lumps or bumps.
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Did you try a debra sibley or a melita brown crates. Think you would like one of those.
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | daisycake123 - 2014-03-24 8:55 PM Did you try a debra sibley or a melita brown crates. Think you would like one of those.
I'm on the list to try a Meleta Brown saddle!! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | r_beau - 2014-03-24 8:30 PM Okay. New question although maybe I should almost make a new thread for this.
The saddle seems to roll. I was able to work a barrel tonight at a trot, and just lope some circles. When I stayed in a circle for an extended period with my weight to the outside, the saddle wanted to roll a bit.
I'm using a 5 Star pad that is 1/2" thick. I do have a 3/4". I don't know if that would make a difference. Pad ideas???
Stirrup leathers should not go between the tree and the horse. |
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Does this saddle fit?