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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
   
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | My mind just started thinking since I'm stuck on the couch. But after a short conversation with some strangers on facebook, I am very very curious.
One of those people jumped in on a conversation I was having with someone else about bleeder meds. She told me symptoms her horse was having but was 100 percent sure he was not a bleeder because he had never bled from his nose.
Here's my question....
Does everybody know the symptoms of a bleeder? Signs to look for? Red flags to tell you that you may want to have your horse checked?
Can we post on here our experiences and what we feel our horses signs were so that maybe some people can learn?
I was very concerned to find that people still think that just because they can't see the blood means their horse is not bleeding. When in fact they could be, and an untreated bleeder can lead to very bad things, including death :(. I did talk to this person and one other and suggested they talk to their vets and possibly get their horses looked at.
My horse had been competing for two years with no isses. I always thought he was never giving 100 percent even when he was clocking 1D. In 2013, march, he pulled 2D checks all weekend against 500 plus horses. One week later he eas 3rd in the 1D out of 120 horses. Two weeks after that he barely ran in the 2D. He ran a 15.2 in a pen he normally runs 14.2-14.6 in. After his second run he never caught his breath, looked like he wanted to just drop over dead, and refused to drink water. By the time the vet got there it was too late to scope.
So we took him in a few days later for a BAL and Trach wash to find out he bled really really bad. We just have no way of knowing for how long or exactly when.
Treated him etc etc. He is now back to clocking high in the 1D (when his rider isn't on the couch recovering from surgery :))
I just wanted to put this out there in the hopes someone may read it and learn. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I've never had a bleeder so I would have zero idea what to look for.
Looking foward to everyone's stories! |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | My thoughts, they may be wrong, but for the horses in my care this is what I watch for....
First, this may come from riding racehorses, but I have always timed how long it takes for my horses to catch their breath after a run. I start as soon as I come out (and always have to ask hubby for the time since I don't wear a watch). I count the time until they stop blowing hard, then the time they are breathing normal again. I also track how much water they drink and how soon. So if I ever notice any huge or abnormal variations in this with each horse it throws up a huge red flag. This is one way I caught it with my good horse.
I also think a horse who coughs only after a workout is a red flag. And horses who "drag" their head after a run. Meaning ones who wants to keep his head really low to the ground. Again, symptoms my horse had before we diagnosed him, but signs I did not red flag.
My vet also told me that one sign of bleeding can be refusal to drink water after a run. Of course this will vary as every horse is different. But he said bleeding can cause horses to not want to drink. I did notice this was the case with my horse, but of course did not catch it until after the diagnosis. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | Mine never coughed, never bled outwardly, never sneezed blood, never refused the gate, he just started getting a wide 3rd barrel, no fire running home, just started slowing down was 1D, then 2D and then finally bottom 2D/top 3D. I attributed it to my daughter riding him as she started riding him when the decline happened. Well finally I tried lasix on him and from 1 run to the next he gained his 1 second back with her in the saddle. I did not have him scoped - I did not need to. I took him home, gave treatment and laid him off - we brought him back and have had no issues - he runs on lasix every run and is turning the 3rd nice. |
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 Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | Isn't it something like 90% of all race horses are bleeders? Anyways, I have a respiratory specialist that all he does is look at horse's lungs. He said more non-race horses bleed than most people think. In fact, you have a much higher likelihood of your horse having some sort of respiratory issue than one may think.
Grasshopper has a condition that had stumped my respiratory vet. He said he had never seen anything like it. Basically, he is a reverse roarer. I have talked about it before but I am going to talk about something else. He wasn't catching his breathe at one point and he bled out. Turned out, everyone that has seen this horse believes it was from a lack of keeping his neck aligned. Hops has some serious neck issues. I still pay for him to get chiro and acupunture done regularly and he does nothing really.
He went on interval training and that helps with roarers and bleeders. All of my horses are on interval training. My resp. vet said it is actually beneficial for horses like barrel horses because they only need wind capacity for less than 20 seconds. So you don't need marathon lungs you need sprinters lungs.
But keeping their necks adjusted is now critical for me. I watch how easy it is for them to come down off of something hard, and I pay attention to coughing and other movements.
Interestingly, Mystic doesn't bleed but she is easily suscetible to infection in her glutteral pouch/lungs. Her tell tale is her wind and her coat. She bleaches like all get out when she isn't feeling good. She got sick and is starting a round of hard core antibiotics today. hopefully she doesn't have to go in for flushes.
Anyways, those are my experiences. Just because I have gotten to spend a lot of time with a respiratory specialist I am always on the look out. I am also very well aware of things that trigger horses breathing to change. Weather is obviously one of them. But seasons, what is in the air, where they are at, etc all play a part too. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | You brought up very good points. Many, many bleeders do not bleed out. Often times I notice a stride change in horses that are just not able to produce all out due to the hypoxia that is occuring. Also, when I was a crack groom I would notice the hair coat change. Many will get a low grade fever and just look "off". I've had a few horses that would cough after a race rush them to a vet and discover NO Blood. Several times it was suggested to me to clear them with a flush prior to bitting and running them. If they have hay particles in the throat they may need to "hack" those away from the airways.
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | sassy&tessa - 2014-03-10 2:51 PM Isn't it something like 90% of all race horses are bleeders? Anyways, I have a respiratory specialist that all he does is look at horse's lungs. He said more non-race horses bleed than most people think. In fact, you have a much higher likelihood of your horse having some sort of respiratory issue than one may think.
Grasshopper has a condition that had stumped my respiratory vet. He said he had never seen anything like it. Basically, he is a reverse roarer. I have talked about it before but I am going to talk about something else. He wasn't catching his breathe at one point and he bled out. Turned out, everyone that has seen this horse believes it was from a lack of keeping his neck aligned. Hops has some serious neck issues. I still pay for him to get chiro and acupunture done regularly and he does nothing really.
He went on interval training and that helps with roarers and bleeders. All of my horses are on interval training. My resp. vet said it is actually beneficial for horses like barrel horses because they only need wind capacity for less than 20 seconds. So you don't need marathon lungs you need sprinters lungs.
But keeping their necks adjusted is now critical for me. I watch how easy it is for them to come down off of something hard, and I pay attention to coughing and other movements.
Interestingly, Mystic doesn't bleed but she is easily suscetible to infection in her glutteral pouch/lungs. Her tell tale is her wind and her coat. She bleaches like all get out when she isn't feeling good. She got sick and is starting a round of hard core antibiotics today. hopefully she doesn't have to go in for flushes.
Anyways, those are my experiences. Just because I have gotten to spend a lot of time with a respiratory specialist I am always on the look out. I am also very well aware of things that trigger horses breathing to change. Weather is obviously one of them. But seasons, what is in the air, where they are at, etc all play a part too.
What is your interval training regimen? |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | sassy&tessa - 2014-03-10 3:51 PM Isn't it something like 90% of all race horses are bleeders? Anyways, I have a respiratory specialist that all he does is look at horse's lungs. He said more non-race horses bleed than most people think. In fact, you have a much higher likelihood of your horse having some sort of respiratory issue than one may think.
Grasshopper has a condition that had stumped my respiratory vet. He said he had never seen anything like it. Basically, he is a reverse roarer. I have talked about it before but I am going to talk about something else. He wasn't catching his breathe at one point and he bled out. Turned out, everyone that has seen this horse believes it was from a lack of keeping his neck aligned. Hops has some serious neck issues. I still pay for him to get chiro and acupunture done regularly and he does nothing really.
He went on interval training and that helps with roarers and bleeders. All of my horses are on interval training. My resp. vet said it is actually beneficial for horses like barrel horses because they only need wind capacity for less than 20 seconds. So you don't need marathon lungs you need sprinters lungs.
But keeping their necks adjusted is now critical for me. I watch how easy it is for them to come down off of something hard, and I pay attention to coughing and other movements.
Interestingly, Mystic doesn't bleed but she is easily suscetible to infection in her glutteral pouch/lungs. Her tell tale is her wind and her coat. She bleaches like all get out when she isn't feeling good. She got sick and is starting a round of hard core antibiotics today. hopefully she doesn't have to go in for flushes.
Anyways, those are my experiences. Just because I have gotten to spend a lot of time with a respiratory specialist I am always on the look out. I am also very well aware of things that trigger horses breathing to change. Weather is obviously one of them. But seasons, what is in the air, where they are at, etc all play a part too.
I don't know what the actual precentage is, but I do think some people would be surprised at how many horses do bleed. I honestly think some can bleed only a very small amount and acutally be ok. Others not so. I know of a top notch 1D record winner that almost died from it a few years back. He had been bleeding but no outward signs of it. He ended up getting really sick from the infection in his lungs and they didn't know if he was going to make it. Thank God he did.
Same thing happened to my horse. The only difference being is that when we did the trach wash and BAL he was already on the upside of healing. Probably because I had run him three times at the shamrock, once the following weekend, then actually gave him a three week break with only light riding going into Dixie Nationals which is where we found out he bled. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | uno-dos-tres! - 2014-03-10 3:55 PM You brought up very good points. Many, many bleeders do not bleed out. Often times I notice a stride change in horses that are just not able to produce all out due to the hypoxia that is occuring. Also, when I was a crack groom I would notice the hair coat change. Many will get a low grade fever and just look "off". I've had a few horses that would cough after a race rush them to a vet and discover NO Blood. Several times it was suggested to me to clear them with a flush prior to bitting and running them. If they have hay particles in the throat they may need to "hack" those away from the airways.
This is why we are having a very hard time figuring out just how long my horse was bleeding. He had always been a horrible keeper. Always looked a little rough, very hard to keep weight on. But he was performing well. At the Presidents Cup 2012 he was a 2D check winner both runs out of over 400 riders, and at the Shamrock he again was a 2D check winner out of over 500 plus.
Now, a year later, after being diagnosed and treated, he remains on OTC bleeder meds and has never looked better. Of course change in climate (GA to MO) and changes in feed (forage mostly) are playing a big role as well. But he's running better then ever now. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I have a bleeder. He has bled out his nose, the most he ever bled out was a trickle you could wipe away with a kleenex. No symptoms at all, no coughing, no undesirable behavior in the arena, no refusing the gate. He had 2 runs in one day for high school rodeo, several hours apart. The first time he bled through his nostril was on his second run and he won first with that run. Had him scoped the next morning, about 12 hours after his last run and vet said evidence that he had been bleeding on other runs. He now gets 2 cc's of lasix IM 2 hours out and does not bleed. I have him scoped every 8 months or so to check for any signs of bleeding ar lung damage. Every vet I have talked to says at least 80% of horses bleed, it is just a matter of what degree. He considers my guy very mild. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I hope the OP doesn't mind me putting this out: WARM UP areas that are dusty to the point that you see the dust or you can smell it are very bad on your horse. Those small particles can contribute to your horses respiratory stress in a huge way.
Knowing your horses VS (vital signs) are pretty important to making correct assumptions that something is amiss with the animal.
I too, train in intervals. Once I have my LSD training done I switch to interval. Once the season gets going if I'm not going to run for the week I will work my horse at 200 yards hard.
I have a cardiology stethoscope that I use to listen but most important is what I see.
I BELIEVE, the reason a horse won't drink as normal after they bleed is because of the burn of the acidic blood in the gut. I will offer them some alfalfa then they will often drink post the Ca on the stomach.
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | uno-dos-tres! - 2014-03-10 4:27 PM I hope the OP doesn't mind me putting this out: WARM UP areas that are dusty to the point that you see the dust or you can smell it are very bad on your horse. Those small particles can contribute to your horses respiratory stress in a huge way.
Knowing your horses VS (vital signs) are pretty important to making correct assumptions that something is amiss with the animal.
I too, train in intervals. Once I have my LSD training done I switch to interval. Once the season gets going if I'm not going to run for the week I will work my horse at 200 yards hard.
I have a cardiology stethoscope that I use to listen but most important is what I see.
I BELIEVE, the reason a horse won't drink as normal after they bleed is because of the burn of the acidic blood in the gut. I will offer them some alfalfa then they will often drink post the Ca on the stomach.
Your last sentence, as to why a horse may not drink after bleeding, is exactly what my vet said!
And I'm looking for people to post any and all information!!!! |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| uno-dos-tres! - 2014-03-10 3:27 PM I hope the OP doesn't mind me putting this out: WARM UP areas that are dusty to the point that you see the dust or you can smell it are very bad on your horse. Those small particles can contribute to your horses respiratory stress in a huge way.
Knowing your horses VS (vital signs) are pretty important to making correct assumptions that something is amiss with the animal.
I too, train in intervals. Once I have my LSD training done I switch to interval. Once the season gets going if I'm not going to run for the week I will work my horse at 200 yards hard.
I have a cardiology stethoscope that I use to listen but most important is what I see.
I BELIEVE, the reason a horse won't drink as normal after they bleed is because of the burn of the acidic blood in the gut. I will offer them some alfalfa then they will often drink post the Ca on the stomach.
Great post!! |
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 Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
Location: So. Cali. | I'm glad I did a search before creating a new post for this.
I am having an issue with my mare now that finished our 2012 season running top of the 1D, starting the 2013 first run back great, but bled visibly after. I gave her time off and antibiotics and hoped it was just an flaw from that particular day and started running her again ( I know, I'm naive and just didnt want to do lasix). Our times declined, from one thing to the next we were having issues during our runs, etc. I tried lasix towards the end of the season, she did not urinate after I gave it to her and one of the times she just constantly was dribbling. I gave her the winter off and have been legging her back up acouple months now. Ran her 2 weeks ago for the first time, wide third barrel. Ran her this passed Saturday, did not want to give her nose AT ALL at third barrel. Goes in the arena, great first and second, went into third great, but as soon as I asked for her to finish the turn she stuck her nose up and shot out and then ran home.
Another symptom I am seeing is she looses her appetite for a day or two after a race. Just picks at her feed. And no, she does not generally drink after a run either.
I am back to thinking she is actually still bleeding within and thats why she's fighting the run home. I plan to give her time off from competing, and antibiotics. But would it be a good idea to give her the lasix a few times at the house first so she gets a feel for it? I know she use to get it (she is off the track). But would it maybe help her just get reminded of the feel and accept it a little better at the races?
Sorry if this all sounds like a big ramble.
Edited by Three*C*Champs 2014-03-17 11:53 AM
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| I have a horse who coughs 2 or 3 big coughs about 2 minutes after you start trotting. He then snorts (the kind that they love to blow snot in your face snort) and never coughs again. Could this be bleeding or is he just clearing his pipes? |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Nateracer - 2014-03-17 12:05 PM I have a horse who coughs 2 or 3 big coughs about 2 minutes after you start trotting. He then snorts (the kind that they love to blow snot in your face snort) and never coughs again. Could this be bleeding or is he just clearing his pipes?
My old gelding does the cough too. He's had some respiratory issues in the past and I'm really careful with him, but he's never shown me any of the classic bleeder signs so I've never had him scoped. It's just one of those things I really watch for with him. If he bleeds and I have to lasix him before every run, he will be retired for my safety (he is deathly afraid of needles) and his sanity. lol. |
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 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | I thought my mare was a bleeder but turns out she has allergies, 30 of them actually. So make sure you get your horses scoped and cheek things at first sign! So many people brush things off until they are way worse |
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It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | Nateracer - 2014-03-17 12:05 PM I have a horse who coughs 2 or 3 big coughs about 2 minutes after you start trotting. He then snorts (the kind that they love to blow snot in your face snort) and never coughs again. Could this be bleeding or is he just clearing his pipes?
Check for allergies! |
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Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: oklahoma | Nateracer - 2014-03-17 12:05 PM
I have a horse who coughs 2 or 3 big coughs about 2 minutes after you start trotting. He then snorts (the kind that they love to blow snot in your face snort) and never coughs again. Could this be bleeding or is he just clearing his pipes?
I had a horse that would cough and sneeze for the first few minutes of warm up, then stop. This went from the time I got him at 2 years old till he was 6 years old. I finished a run at the Shoot out, cooled him down and had Dr. Ford scope him. His throat was almost completely closed off. Had an allergy panel ran and he was allergic to 24 different things. I put him on allergy shots from the Serum Company and he never coughed or sneezed again after that.
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | My guy used to cough in the first few minutes of warming up as well. He was diagnosed with a "restricted" airway several years ago. When he started the coughing and making noises while loping, I had him scoped to check for issues. He wasn't bleeding at that point, but just has a smaller then normal airway.
Since he's been on bleeder meds he hasn't been coughing before or after :) |
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Porta Potty Pants
Posts: 2600
| Hmmm … my horse has started the stick my nose up in the air and not want to finish the turns … over the past few days, he hasn't seemed to interested in eating … he normally is a good eater. I was wondering if he might be allergic to something .. now I'm wondering if he is experiencing some bleeding. No other visible signs however. Gonna watch him. THanks for the information!! |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | My colt just wouldn't fire and would just would not run on the way home at all. Never refused the gate or anything naughty just didn't perform. Then he started coughing a little here and there, not always after a run even, soemtimes just standing in the pasture for no reason. Had him scoped, said he bled so we put him on antibiotics and rested and came back on lasix. Still not running and the coughing was getting worse. Did a BAL and they said he had COPD possibly brought on by allergies. Bunch more treatments. We sent off serum for allergy testing and he had lots of them some of are extremely high so now we are doing the allergy injections. Fingers crossed we have a cough free summer! I may still run him on lasix but we see how he is doing. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 656
| What have you done for horses with small airways? She has been to multiple vets with different treatments the dex helps her the most but worried about using it |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | sport565 - 2014-03-17 9:28 PM What have you done for horses with small airways? She has been to multiple vets with different treatments the dex helps her the most but worried about using it
There's not much you can do. Can't make the airways any bigger. All you can do is train them well to build up their endurance and keep them free of allergens etc. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 563
Location: Small Town Iowa | Nateracer - 2014-03-17 12:05 PM
I have a horse who coughs 2 or 3 big coughs about 2 minutes after you start trotting. He then snorts (the kind that they love to blow snot in your face snort) and never coughs again. Could this be bleeding or is he just clearing his pipes?
During the summer and going to the races Pepsi will constantly have a cough, but she doesn't show any signs of bleeding. The girl is a freakin' camel I swear. LOL. I just give her Air power the week of a race and also while we are there. I give her a loading dose twice a day for a couple of days and then just mainetenance 1x per day at feed time. She practitcally runs me down for the stuff she loves the taste. And she doesn't hack and cough all the time. She really isn't running hard enough for me to know if she's giving me 110% yet, so I have no idea if she could be a bleeder or not. |
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Veteran
Posts: 168
Location: somewhere | I have mine on a compounded antihistamine powder this seems to work except for mold or humid arenas. Very frustrating to deal with! |
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| I have a horse that will cough when warming up. However, it is also an indicator of how good a condition he is in. The better condition, the less coughing or no coughing at all. |
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | missroselee - 2014-03-17 8:38 PM sport565 - 2014-03-17 9:28 PM What have you done for horses with small airways? She has been to multiple vets with different treatments the dex helps her the most but worried about using it There's not much you can do. Can't make the airways any bigger. All you can do is train them well to build up their endurance and keep them free of allergens etc.
They don't make bronchodilators for horses? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 422
Location: Fort Bragg North Carolina | after reading all these my thought: GEEZZZZ horses have way too many things that can go wrong. i dont even think about it because theres too much that can go wrong wheres a bubble?? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Greencastle PA | Can you tell ne what otc bleeder meds are, my horse is a bleeder and can you give lasix my mouth? Thanks |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | brlracerchick - 2014-03-18 9:55 AM missroselee - 2014-03-17 8:38 PM sport565 - 2014-03-17 9:28 PM What have you done for horses with small airways? She has been to multiple vets with different treatments the dex helps her the most but worried about using it There's not much you can do. Can't make the airways any bigger. All you can do is train them well to build up their endurance and keep them free of allergens etc.
Yes they do but it's still not going to change the physcial makeup of his airway. Could it open it more on raceday, sure. But without going that route he runs 1D so I'm not overly concerned about it. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | barrelracerpa04 - 2014-03-18 1:12 PM Can you tell ne what otc bleeder meds are, my horse is a bleeder and can you give lasix my mouth? Thanks
I can't answer on the lasix because I do not know. I always gave it IV on both barrel and race horses.
As far as over the counter, there are tons of products out there. Just off the top of my head you have Equidites Bleed Block, Oxygens Bleeder Stop, and THE Pulmon-EZ. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | My open horse is a bleeder, first time he bled out, no cough or refusal, just always thought he was a 4d horse, tried a million and one different supplements, herbs, powders, vitamins, etc none of which worked and I finally gave up and gave in and started using lasix. When it's cold I only give him 2cc and I used jailbreak by Oxygen 2 hours prior (lasix either iv or im) both work in the same amount of time. Now that I've been using lasix almost 6 months consistently I have ran a whole second faster at EVERY pen I've even ran at, including running top of 3d at shamrock showdown this past weekend!
I felt so bad that I let it go so long because I was afraid of the lasix but now I know it is the only real preventative and as long as I maintain him properly, give back the electrolytes after the lasix and keep him in tip top shape it's not hurting him.
I've done so much research on what happens to them when they bleed and letting them bleed is far worse then a shot of lasix once every other week or so.
I will always be skeptical now of any bleeding signs. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| My mare would have some gate issues, not fire on a run then fire on the other. Would come out and cough a few times after her run. Never had her scoped but ended up trying lasix out and it did the trick. I give 6ccs in the muscle & ventipulmon. I keep her out of dusty warm-up areas. I ride in fields when I exercise at home. I only do about 10min of exercising during the week, every other day. This workout plan has greatly helped! I have tried T.H.E. product for bleeders and did not notice a difference, otherwise I have not tried any other supplements.
ETA: Anyone tried a nebulizer for horses?
Edited by epoh 2014-03-18 9:00 PM
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | epoh - 2014-03-18 8:58 PM My mare would have some gate issues, not fire on a run then fire on the other. Would come out and cough a few times after her run. Never had her scoped but ended up trying lasix out and it did the trick. I give 6ccs in the muscle & ventipulmon. I keep her out of dusty warm-up areas. I ride in fields when I exercise at home. I only do about 10min of exercising during the week, every other day. This workout plan has greatly helped! I have tried T.H.E. product for bleeders and did not notice a difference, otherwise I have not tried any other supplements. ETA: Anyone tried a nebulizer for horses?
You only do 10 minutes of exercising every other day? 
When my gray horse was coming back from bleeding, doc told me that the NUMBER ONE thing would be to get him in amazing shape before running again, and since then I have made every attempt to have all my horses in tip-top condition before I enter them. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | rodeowithjoker - 2014-03-18 10:28 PM
epoh - 2014-03-18 8:58 PM My mare would have some gate issues, not fire on a run then fire on the other. Would come out and cough a few times after her run. Never had her scoped but ended up trying lasix out and it did the trick. I give 6ccs in the muscle & ventipulmon. I keep her out of dusty warm-up areas. I ride in fields when I exercise at home. I only do about 10min of exercising during the week, every other day. This workout plan has greatly helped! I have tried T.H.E. product for bleeders and did not notice a difference, otherwise I have not tried any other supplements. ETA: Anyone tried a nebulizer for horses?
You only do 10 minutes of exercising every other day? When my gray horse was coming back from bleeding, doc told me that the NUMBER ONE thing would be to get him in amazing shape before running again, and since then I have made every attempt to have all my horses in tip-top condition before I enter them.
10 minutes every other day is bad news for a bleeder. Probably why you didn't see a difference with THE. Supplements are not the cure all. They help in addition to proper nutrition and training. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | My now retired COP'D mare was a bleeder. I don't remember the exact timing of finding all of this out with her as she has been retired for 7 years now. But I do remember the vet saying it was kind of a chicken and the egg thing. Was she a bleeder because she was COPD or was she COPD because she was a bleeder. I think they just go hand in hand. I do know I knew nothing about bleeding prior to her and probably took a few good seasons off of her career by not getting on top of it. And probably a few good years off of her retirement as her breathing is getting harder to keep controlled each year.
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | missroselee - 2014-03-19 8:50 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-03-18 10:28 PM epoh - 2014-03-18 8:58 PM My mare would have some gate issues, not fire on a run then fire on the other. Would come out and cough a few times after her run. Never had her scoped but ended up trying lasix out and it did the trick. I give 6ccs in the muscle & ventipulmon. I keep her out of dusty warm-up areas. I ride in fields when I exercise at home. I only do about 10min of exercising during the week, every other day. This workout plan has greatly helped! I have tried T.H.E. product for bleeders and did not notice a difference, otherwise I have not tried any other supplements. ETA: Anyone tried a nebulizer for horses? You only do 10 minutes of exercising every other day?
When my gray horse was coming back from bleeding, doc told me that the NUMBER ONE thing would be to get him in amazing shape before running again, and since then I have made every attempt to have all my horses in tip-top condition before I enter them. 10 minutes every other day is bad news for a bleeder. Probably why you didn't see a difference with THE. Supplements are not the cure all. They help in addition to proper nutrition and training.
That's what I was thinking. Shoot in ten minutes I have barely even started trotting my horses - it takes me about 4 minutes to walk to the field where I exercise them, and I spend the next several minutes trotting, then walking, then trotting etc., as a warm up. I know I don't ride mine as long as some people do, but I spend at least 20-25 minutes on each horse, then about another 5 walking back to their halters. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | rodeowithjoker - 2014-03-19 11:57 AM missroselee - 2014-03-19 8:50 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-03-18 10:28 PM epoh - 2014-03-18 8:58 PM My mare would have some gate issues, not fire on a run then fire on the other. Would come out and cough a few times after her run. Never had her scoped but ended up trying lasix out and it did the trick. I give 6ccs in the muscle & ventipulmon. I keep her out of dusty warm-up areas. I ride in fields when I exercise at home. I only do about 10min of exercising during the week, every other day. This workout plan has greatly helped! I have tried T.H.E. product for bleeders and did not notice a difference, otherwise I have not tried any other supplements. ETA: Anyone tried a nebulizer for horses? You only do 10 minutes of exercising every other day?
When my gray horse was coming back from bleeding, doc told me that the NUMBER ONE thing would be to get him in amazing shape before running again, and since then I have made every attempt to have all my horses in tip-top condition before I enter them. 10 minutes every other day is bad news for a bleeder. Probably why you didn't see a difference with THE. Supplements are not the cure all. They help in addition to proper nutrition and training.
I've gotten to where I will lope my guy a lot more then I ever have. I used to only long trot for several miles, but this year as he gets older, he really enjoys a good long solid lope. Fast enough to make it worth while, but slow enough to do it on a loose rein. I always read that bleeders just be loped a lot. I don't know if it's true or not but they definitely need more legging up then the average horse. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 288
| This is a great post!  |
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| I know this is an old post but, I have some questions and concerns! At home I will grain my horse in barn and his hay is across the pasture! He will run from barn to pasture and cough!(dusty conditions) when we have a race after his run he will cough also! Almost like clearing himself! He's never bled and is in good shape! Would you chalk it up to dust and allergies or maybe more?! Thanks |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | Possibly allergies. Try dexamethazone on his grain and c if it helps. Cheap easy way to treat allergies. No harm done if not allergies and you can rule out and try something else. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: South MS | My bleeder was tricky
I was just starting him on the barrels so I couldnt tell by performance as he was still green on the pattern
I noticed that once we were running more - he was getting more and more anxious at the gate - he would run hard but would shut down going to the third barrel - I thought again it was because he was green - no coughing - no other signs
One day I went to make a practice run at local arena - came home and put him in his stall and feed him (about 30 minute drive from arena back to my house - so 1-1.5 hr after I made my practice run) - he drop his head to eat and bled
I gave him a few days off thinking maybe it was the heat/dust
Ran him again at a practice run in 2 weeks and took him to eat grass once I unsaddled and bled again
Turned him out 3 months as I had 2 other horses I needed to finish and pulled him back up
Worked hard with my vet to figure out what would work best for him and still make him fire hard - I have had to play with lasix timing/dosage and had to add dex as well as he will bleed thru straight lasix
Edited by Lmichaels 2014-06-19 8:41 AM
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Burning3 - 2014-06-18 8:35 PM I know this is an old post but, I have some questions and concerns! At home I will grain my horse in barn and his hay is across the pasture! He will run from barn to pasture and cough!(dusty conditions) when we have a race after his run he will cough also! Almost like clearing himself! He's never bled and is in good shape! Would you chalk it up to dust and allergies or maybe more?! Thanks
Could be dust/allergies, but how do you know he's not bleeding? Have you had him scoped? Just because one doesn't bleed out through the nostrils doesn't mean he/she isn't bleeding. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 226
Location: Middle Tennessee | I have recently started running my horse on Lasix due to being a bleeder. I have a couple of questions.
How long after starting Lasix did your horses begin clocking good again? My guy has went from 1D to 3D/not even placing.
Is Lasix safe to use frequently? I rodeo pretty hard, typically two a weekend, and sometimes a barrel race during the week. I am also planning to go out west on a rodeo trip. It makes me nervous to give Lasix this frequently. So, how often can I give it, safely? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | I have to say thank you so much for this thread!!! My mare yesterday at a barrel race who has never bled and i never thought she was, had a small amount of blood coming from her nose. It was extremely dusty in the warm up pen and was a double header after running fri night. I texted my vet and she said it sounds like she may be one. So i picked up a container of bleeder stop by OXYgen. I really wouldnt have recognized the other symptoms like coughing after a lesson and being wide on 2nd/3rd if it wasnt for the info!! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | RodeoGirlJodi - 2014-06-22 3:27 PM
I have recently started running my horse on Lasix due to being a bleeder. I have a couple of questions.
How long after starting Lasix did your horses begin clocking good again? My guy has went from 1D to 3D/not even placing.
Is Lasix safe to use frequently? I rodeo pretty hard, typically two a weekend, and sometimes a barrel race during the week. I am also planning to go out west on a rodeo trip. It makes me nervous to give Lasix this frequently. So, how often can I give it, safely?
I'd like to hear others thoughts on this as well. |
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| No, I have not had him scoped yet! I realize it may be allergies more than bleeding, only because of the short runs from barn and then cough and in pasture running around and will cough . Between dusty conditions and dry hay it can be the combo of the two. |
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 Constantly Dieting
Posts: 5721
Location: Down the Gravel Road near the Missouri River, SD | Thanks for the post ladies..it helps alot to hear other stories and try to figure out whats going on with our horses. I have a horse that I just recently started to get serious and start hauling away from home, and at first I thought he was nervous and holding his breath during the run and then he takes 2-3 deep gulps of air after the run. I watch to make sure he's not breathing heavy like an out of shape horse but I notice this and how loud (not a roarer sound but he's close) he is when we gallop during the week to keep him legged up. We already have one big horse that I know is a bleeder but his signs were different from this guy. No way would I have thought mine might be one too but now Im going to treat and see.
Edited by Rodeo'nSDstyle 2014-10-09 10:09 AM
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | He may not be a bleeder, he could be displacing. Having him scoped would be my first suggestion for sure! Definitely let us know how it goes!
I am one of the lucky ones. My horse has so far had his most successful year in 2014 with no lasix. He's just been on THE Pulmoneze, EQ Royal, and honey. Every run but three were 1D. He is the reserve 1D champion for the year in our NBHA District. And the three runs he was 2D he got checks.
I know not everybody is that lucky with their bleeders. I know many people still dislike lasix. But I think there's always a time and place for lasix.
I have also talked to a lot of vets this year randomly and many of them feel that 2013/2014 have been the two worst years in a long time for horses bleeding, and they all said the same thing, that it could be allergy related. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | missroselee - 2014-03-19 6:50 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-03-18 10:28 PM epoh - 2014-03-18 8:58 PM My mare would have some gate issues, not fire on a run then fire on the other. Would come out and cough a few times after her run. Never had her scoped but ended up trying lasix out and it did the trick. I give 6ccs in the muscle & ventipulmon. I keep her out of dusty warm-up areas. I ride in fields when I exercise at home. I only do about 10min of exercising during the week, every other day. This workout plan has greatly helped! I have tried T.H.E. product for bleeders and did not notice a difference, otherwise I have not tried any other supplements. ETA: Anyone tried a nebulizer for horses? You only do 10 minutes of exercising every other day? When my gray horse was coming back from bleeding, doc told me that the NUMBER ONE thing would be to get him in amazing shape before running again, and since then I have made every attempt to have all my horses in tip-top condition before I enter them. 10 minutes every other day is bad news for a bleeder. Probably why you didn't see a difference with THE. Supplements are not the cure all. They help in addition to proper nutrition and training.  to what missroselee and rodeowithjoker is saying.
Edited by Cowgirl Kat 2014-10-09 11:21 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 289
Location: Northeast SD | This post makes me more worried for all my horses than I already am! Great advice though! I'm sure I will be watching for signs in any of my horses other than the 'typical' ones. |
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 Member
Posts: 13
| I ran a bleeder for 8 years, 5cc's 4 hours out and she ran on lasix for every run and I ran her alot, some times as much as 3 days in a row, I just made sure she had all the water she needed after the run and she had a small salt block around her at all times to encourage the water intake and she was a consistant 1-D horse.
My vet said it was better to run her on the lasix then let her struggle with internal bleeding and she never refused the gate because of this issuse.
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Member
Posts: 15
| Having a lot of success treating both symptoms, Bleeding and Coughing with a Nebulizer and Colloidal Silver. It's all natural and provides excellent results! SilverHorseCare.com sells everything you need. It's certainly worth looking in to. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | cut2win - 2014-10-09 2:26 PM
I ran a bleeder for 8 years, 5cc's 4 hours out and she ran on lasix for every run and I ran her alot, some times as much as 3 days in a row, I just made sure she had all the water she needed after the run and she had a small salt block around her at all times to encourage the water intake and she was a consistant 1-D horse.
My vet said it was better to run her on the lasix then let her struggle with internal bleeding and she never refused the gate because of this issuse.
I totally agree with this… I have a bleeder that is in GREAT PHYSICAL CONDITION, but he has to have Lasix when he runs. Every time.
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 Crazy Chicken Chick
Posts: 36132
| I have a 3yo that I'm not really riding.. She has coughed occasionally since shortly after I got her I think. Thought it was allergies as she is also itchy. Noticed her coughing a little more and just had her scoped. She has an entrapped epiglotis and is having surgery next week. |
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | SmokinGirlie - 2014-03-17 4:09 PM Nateracer - 2014-03-17 12:05 PM I have a horse who coughs 2 or 3 big coughs about 2 minutes after you start trotting. He then snorts (the kind that they love to blow snot in your face snort) and never coughs again. Could this be bleeding or is he just clearing his pipes? Check for allergies!
This is a true statement. A trainer heard my horse cough and said he was a bleeder. Had him scoped, he was clean but had a build up of mucus. Did allergy testing and he is now on allergy meds and SmartBreath pellets. He coughs 2 or three times while warming up and find afterwards. |
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Random Post. Coughing Barrel Horses and Bleeders.