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 Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | "Purchased" a horse over the weekend. We agreed that when he vetted sound (she assured me that he would) that sale was final (she has my money). He did NOT vet sound... He is only 8 and it was a really sad prognoses. Trotted off sound in a straight line but was tender in the frog to the hoof tester and after he failed the flex test on the front left, I decided to have him x-ray the hoof and ankle. He is navicular and has some arthritis in the coffin bone. My vet advised me that if I could return the horse, I should. I am already in love with this horse and he rides like a dream! The seller has said she would take the horse back or she could lower the price (almost cut in half) with this new info. He has tons of buttons, spin, side pass, VERY body and leg cued, and can do anything cow related but is not started on the pattern. I buy a horse to keep, not for any type of resale unless I just cant make it work with them (not their fault, we just don't mesh). I was planning on getting something patterned in the next couple years for my kids to run so I was really wanting long term. I talked about some of the possibilities with my vet and so I am just wanting some opinions from y'all. The navicular on the x-ray was very small, but still there. My vet said he was more concerned with the arthritis in the coffin than he was anything.
Should I try to make it work with him?
What sort of upkeep am I looking at?
Tell me about injecting (how much? How often? How long would they work?)
I found something called "Nerving" (?), has anyone done this? (I read about it and does not sound like something I personally would want to do but let me hear your stories if you have)
About how many years would we be able to run him?
About how much time am I looking at having with him if I keep him?
Edited by Next to Heaven 2014-03-11 2:10 PM
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
 
| There are too many sound horses out there to buy a crippled one. The only way I could justify it was if I had little bitty kids who needed something to poke around on, and then I'd make sure the price tag wasn't very high. I know there are ways to help navicular and other issues, but for long term, it's not a good decision. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | That's what I figured.  We already have a baby sitter for my little one.
I am just so sad, I thought I found the prefect horse for me to get my confidence back with. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Tildren for navicular, costs about 1200
Injections for the arthritis hylartyl 5 is on the upper end this will cost you 100/joint might have to give a booster in a month then 3 times a year.
Oral suppliment, lots of people have had success with different things, so you would have to figure out what you want to give, cost 2-5 per day.
Iv glucosamine weekly has prolonged my use of injections 25/month
Adequen regime 5-700
If you are interested in the horse just be aware of the costs.
There are many arthritic horses that are still running sound. I had one diagnosed with it at 6 we never buted he ran till 15 retired sound pulled out of pasture when he was 18 placed at high school rodeos then retired sound at 19 and he is 22 and still comfortable |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I had a six year old gelding that was nerved. Never had a problem with it. I would do it again if I had a navicular horse. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
Location: Northern CA | There are too many that are sound to take a chance. You are in love him now, you will only grow to like him more, and when the navicular takes effect (which it is bound to do) you will be even more heartbroken after spending much of your time, love, and money on him. Take the disappoint now, it will save you heartache and much $$$$$ in the future. |
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 Party Girl
Posts: 12293
Location: Buffalo, Wyoming | My High School rodeo horse was nerved before I bought her. She was eight when I bought her and I ran her for 4-5 years before I sold her and never had any issues with her. As far as I know the people I sold her never did either. |
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 Special Somebody
Posts: 3951
Location: Finally horseback again.... | I have to say this..
I had TWO diagnosed with navicular changes at young ages... TWO. Both by the same vet at a very reputable clinic. The both had noticeable limp on circling with head bobbing. Not in a straight line.
The first one was my brothers mare. He sold her to an older gentleman for his grand daughter. They took her to their chiro as a maintenance thing. Her should was way out. Shoulder adjusted the girl started riding her with no limp. They re-xrayed her with another vet... no navicular... That mare made one butt kicking barrel horse that is sound to this day.
Second horse was a son of Mr Jess Perry that I bought off the slaughter truck. He had been sold by a high end barrel racer due to the SAME vet diagnosing with navicular changes. He was supposed to have been a pleasure only horse but was placed in the kill pen. I bought him, had him rexrayed, no navicular... none. But shoulder was way out of alignment. We had to pad his hoof to lift him up 3/4 inches , adjust the shoulder and reshod in three weeks. He went back to running 1-2D times and is still sound and winning.
My point to this is.... IF you like the horse, get a second opinion. Vets are not always right. What one might see as navicular, may be bad x rays, or even just not reading correctly.
(ETA: that vet also diagnosed my husbands horse with cysts in his growth plate in his left rear at a year old. Told us to put him down that he would never be sound. Eight years later, he is a reiner, calf horse and heel horse as well as using horse... never taken a lame step and can flat slide.... ) |
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | If the price is right! But keep in mind that you will have some expenses on this horse in the future. Horse may be fine and never need much. You have the upper hand to negotiate now!
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | I agree with Canchaser1...........get second opinion.......they very careful weigh all the pros and cons. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 975
Location: The barn...where else? SW Missouri | Canchasr1 - 2014-03-11 10:07 AM
I have to say this..
I had TWO diagnosed with navicular changes at young ages... TWO. Both by the same vet at a very reputable clinic. The both had noticeable limp on circling with head bobbing. Not in a straight line.
The first one was my brothers mare. He sold her to an older gentleman for his grand daughter. They took her to their chiro as a maintenance thing. Her should was way out. Shoulder adjusted the girl started riding her with no limp. They re-xrayed her with another vet... no navicular... That mare made one butt kicking barrel horse that is sound to this day.
Second horse was a son of Mr Jess Perry that I bought off the slaughter truck. He had been sold by a high end barrel racer due to the SAME vet diagnosing with navicular changes. He was supposed to have been a pleasure only horse but was placed in the kill pen. I bought him, had him rexrayed, no navicular... none. But shoulder was way out of alignment. We had to pad his hoof to lift him up 3/4 inches , adjust the shoulder and reshod in three weeks. He went back to running 1-2D times and is still sound and winning.
My point to this is.... IF you like the horse, get a second opinion. Vets are not always right. What one might see as navicular, may be bad x rays, or even just not reading correctly.
(ETA: that vet also diagnosed my husbands horse with cysts in his growth plate in his left rear at a year old. Told us to put him down that he would never be sound. Eight years later, he is a reiner, calf horse and heel horse as well as using horse... never taken a lame step and can flat slide.... )
I agree with this also. If you really like him then it's worth your time and money to get a 2nd opinion. Good luck!!! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | If you really like him - get a second opinion. (Clean Slate)o not tell them they are a second opinion.) |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | This wouldn't be so hard if he didn't have so much try, personality and LOOKS!
Any good lameness vets between Salado and Dallas??? (texas)
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 Texas Lone Star
Posts: 5318
Location: where ever my L/Q trl is parked | Dr. Charlie Buchanan, dvm-..BVEH-Morgan Mill tx - just sw of Ft Worth on Hwy 281...hes very good - takes care of some of the biggest name reiner's, cutters, ropers, barrel horses ect in the mid west and beyound. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Next to Heaven - 2014-03-11 11:11 AM
Thank y'all! She seems genuinely surprised by the info I gave her. She said that she had him vetted about a month ago and he came out clean. She is being polite and helpful and I am going to see if (since we are only 90 mins apart) she would like to meet a vet in the middle this weekend that way we can both be there and see. She is a money bind and I love this horses heart so we are both trying to make it work and see what results we get.
I understand the misread or mistake with the navicular on the films but what about the arthritis the vet said he saw?
Would you be more willing to deal with the arthritis alone?
Personally if I was looking at a prospect, I would pass if the horse had arthritis as it is a degenerative disease.
I would also ask the vet if that joint can be fused if it is causing problems later on, and if the horse could return to competition after fusion? Just keep in mind to fuse one joint is 2500.
It is tough, if you are getting a second opinion, get the block that they used, and all the X-rays. Take those with you to compare.
Also I would choose the vet, do not let her make sure it is a good lameness vet, I would suggest a reputable surgeon.
And if the horse vetted sound get those records. After the vet has done his assessment, ask him to review the info from the other vets and give his opinion on that as well. |
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | get your money and find a sound horse!
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Canchasr1 - 2014-03-11 9:07 AM I have to say this..
I had TWO diagnosed with navicular changes at young ages... TWO. Both by the same vet at a very reputable clinic. The both had noticeable limp on circling with head bobbing. Not in a straight line.
The first one was my brothers mare. He sold her to an older gentleman for his grand daughter. They took her to their chiro as a maintenance thing. Her should was way out. Shoulder adjusted the girl started riding her with no limp. They re-xrayed her with another vet... no navicular... That mare made one butt kicking barrel horse that is sound to this day.
Second horse was a son of Mr Jess Perry that I bought off the slaughter truck. He had been sold by a high end barrel racer due to the SAME vet diagnosing with navicular changes. He was supposed to have been a pleasure only horse but was placed in the kill pen. I bought him, had him rexrayed, no navicular... none. But shoulder was way out of alignment. We had to pad his hoof to lift him up 3/4 inches , adjust the shoulder and reshod in three weeks. He went back to running 1-2D times and is still sound and winning.
My point to this is.... IF you like the horse, get a second opinion. Vets are not always right. What one might see as navicular, may be bad x rays, or even just not reading correctly.
(ETA: that vet also diagnosed my husbands horse with cysts in his growth plate in his left rear at a year old. Told us to put him down that he would never be sound. Eight years later, he is a reiner, calf horse and heel horse as well as using horse... never taken a lame step and can flat slide.... )
And the shoulder issue seems to be common in horses off the track. They take a banging coming out of those gates! |
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Porta Potty Pants
Posts: 2600
| IF you are still interested … YOU pick a new vet. You have two sources of veterinary information (your first opinion, her vet check) and take all that information to the third vet. Then have him do his assessment and compare.
I had a vet tell me a horse was unsound and recommended X Y and Z treatment, etc. I backed out of the deal. The owner was surprised by the vet's findings. He took the horse to another vet … this vet could not find any of the same issues the vet I used had. He sold the horse to a new home and it worked out for all but the vet … it was discovered that the vet had a history of doing this. (I didn't know, the horse was out of state). As I understand it .. matter ended with a complaint to the veterinary board.
Only you know what will work for you, how much you want to go and what you're willing to deal with. Good Luck |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | I have my x-rays if anyone knows what they are looking at and wants to post them for me just pm me your e-mail. |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| I'd pass on the horse and save myself alot of money and heartbreak in the future. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I would definitely get a second opinion.
My moms good mare was navicular since she was 8. She had her shod correctly and maintained her and rode her until she was 18. Won a bunch on her too.
My brothers' last three horses haven't been completely sound. One had acute laminitis, and the others were navicular and nerved. They require a little more upkeep and were fine. I honestly don't know what I would do though. :/
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | Thanks for everyone input. I have scheduled a second apt for this weekend to have a 3rd vet check him and she is going to provide me with the clear vet check she had done about a month ago. I will be able to make an informed decision then.
(I will see if I can get a photo posted.)
Edited by Next to Heaven 2014-03-11 2:04 PM
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| Whiteboy - 2014-03-11 10:26 AM I had a six year old gelding that was nerved. Never had a problem with it. I would do it again if I had a navicular horse.
This would be an option for me IF it were a horse I already owned. If you have the option to take the horse back and get your money back that's going to be your best option. My advice, take him back before you get more attached to him, before he costs you a ton of money (and he will) AND before you get your heart broken further!! |
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Special Somebody
Posts: 3951
Location: Finally horseback again.... | Next to Heaven - 2014-03-11 11:26 AM This wouldn't be so hard if he didn't have so much try, personality and LOOKS! Any good lameness vets between Salado and Dallas??? (texas)
Wes Williams
Lone Star Park in Grand Praire
He is who found both on mine.
He had an intern there that misdiagnosed mine.
Dr Williams is one of the best IMHO.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1066
| Canchasr1 - 2014-03-11 9:07 AM I have to say this..
I had TWO diagnosed with navicular changes at young ages... TWO. Both by the same vet at a very reputable clinic. The both had noticeable limp on circling with head bobbing. Not in a straight line.
The first one was my brothers mare. He sold her to an older gentleman for his grand daughter. They took her to their chiro as a maintenance thing. Her should was way out. Shoulder adjusted the girl started riding her with no limp. They re-xrayed her with another vet... no navicular... That mare made one butt kicking barrel horse that is sound to this day.
Second horse was a son of Mr Jess Perry that I bought off the slaughter truck. He had been sold by a high end barrel racer due to the SAME vet diagnosing with navicular changes. He was supposed to have been a pleasure only horse but was placed in the kill pen. I bought him, had him rexrayed, no navicular... none. But shoulder was way out of alignment. We had to pad his hoof to lift him up 3/4 inches , adjust the shoulder and reshod in three weeks. He went back to running 1-2D times and is still sound and winning.
My point to this is.... IF you like the horse, get a second opinion. Vets are not always right. What one might see as navicular, may be bad x rays, or even just not reading correctly.
(ETA: that vet also diagnosed my husbands horse with cysts in his growth plate in his left rear at a year old. Told us to put him down that he would never be sound. Eight years later, he is a reiner, calf horse and heel horse as well as using horse... never taken a lame step and can flat slide.... )
We had a very similar experience with a very reputable vet clinic... turned out the gelding's "navicular" was all in his neck/shoulder and he ended up being sound after some extensive chiro work. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | Tys-ol-lady - 2014-03-11 4:41 PM
Canchasr1 - 2014-03-11 9:07 AM I have to say this..
I had TWO diagnosed with navicular changes at young ages... TWO. Both by the same vet at a very reputable clinic. The both had noticeable limp on circling with head bobbing. Not in a straight line.
The first one was my brothers mare. He sold her to an older gentleman for his grand daughter. They took her to their chiro as a maintenance thing. Her should was way out. Shoulder adjusted the girl started riding her with no limp. They re-xrayed her with another vet... no navicular... That mare made one butt kicking barrel horse that is sound to this day.
Second horse was a son of Mr Jess Perry that I bought off the slaughter truck. He had been sold by a high end barrel racer due to the SAME vet diagnosing with navicular changes. He was supposed to have been a pleasure only horse but was placed in the kill pen. I bought him, had him rexrayed, no navicular... none. But shoulder was way out of alignment. We had to pad his hoof to lift him up 3/4 inches , adjust the shoulder and reshod in three weeks. He went back to running 1-2D times and is still sound and winning.
My point to this is.... IF you like the horse, get a second opinion. Vets are not always right. What one might see as navicular, may be bad x rays, or even just not reading correctly.
(ETA: that vet also diagnosed my husbands horse with cysts in his growth plate in his left rear at a year old. Told us to put him down that he would never be sound. Eight years later, he is a reiner, calf horse and heel horse as well as using horse... never taken a lame step and can flat slide.... )
We had a very similar experience with a very reputable vet clinic... turned out the gelding's "navicular" was all in his neck/shoulder and he ended up being sound after some extensive chiro work.
So if I were to have him looked at by a chiro before I made my decision should I have that done before or after taking him to the third vet? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | I would take him to the vet first and if he comes up clean look into physio/chiro.
Good luck and keep us posted. I feel for both you and the original owner. Vets can be wrong, at this point, which one is though, that's the question.
Hugs. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | rockinj - 2014-03-11 4:51 PM
I would take him to the vet first and if he comes up clean look into physio/chiro.
Good luck and keep us posted. I feel for both you and the original owner. Vets can be wrong, at this point, which one is though, that's the question.
Hugs.
Thank you! And I honestly hope it is mine  |
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Expert
Posts: 1432
| Tys-ol-lady - 2014-03-11 3:41 PM
Canchasr1 - 2014-03-11 9:07 AM I have to say this..
I had TWO diagnosed with navicular changes at young ages... TWO. Both by the same vet at a very reputable clinic. The both had noticeable limp on circling with head bobbing. Not in a straight line.
The first one was my brothers mare. He sold her to an older gentleman for his grand daughter. They took her to their chiro as a maintenance thing. Her should was way out. Shoulder adjusted the girl started riding her with no limp. They re-xrayed her with another vet... no navicular... That mare made one butt kicking barrel horse that is sound to this day.
Second horse was a son of Mr Jess Perry that I bought off the slaughter truck. He had been sold by a high end barrel racer due to the SAME vet diagnosing with navicular changes. He was supposed to have been a pleasure only horse but was placed in the kill pen. I bought him, had him rexrayed, no navicular... none. But shoulder was way out of alignment. We had to pad his hoof to lift him up 3/4 inches , adjust the shoulder and reshod in three weeks. He went back to running 1-2D times and is still sound and winning.
My point to this is.... IF you like the horse, get a second opinion. Vets are not always right. What one might see as navicular, may be bad x rays, or even just not reading correctly.
(ETA: that vet also diagnosed my husbands horse with cysts in his growth plate in his left rear at a year old. Told us to put him down that he would never be sound. Eight years later, he is a reiner, calf horse and heel horse as well as using horse... never taken a lame step and can flat slide.... )
We had a very similar experience with a very reputable vet clinic... turned out the gelding's "navicular" was all in his neck/shoulder and he ended up being sound after some extensive chiro work.
I have a mare that I'm currently running that supposedly had navicular. Nope, it was in her shoulders. My husband is an awesome farrier, he changed some angles, had the chiro adjust her and she is sound and running 1D times. Good luck with your horse and yr decision. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | I decided, because of many friends referrals, to go see Dr honnas in bryan instead of going north. Here are his x-rays (if i can get them to.post from my phone...)
Grrr... File is too big. Shoot.
Edited by Next to Heaven 2014-03-11 6:21 PM
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| If you decide to keep the horse try Equipak. AMAZING stuff. We kept jacking with my mare's feet until she was crippled. (as per vet) I finally told my farrier to just shoe her flat. My trainer who has a YOUNG navicular horse, suggested the Equipak. Farrier put that in. The horse has been sound since. |
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10D Crack Champion
| For those saying their horse lameness issues were in the shoulder, what do the chiropractor do exactly that eliminated the pain? Sorry to the op to be off topic. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| If it were me, I would probably pass. I know I look forward to longevity with a horse and I get far too attached. However, with that said, I did take in a horse with a confirmation flaw which may result in X, Y, Z...
He has corrective shoes on and so far that seems to be working well for him. However, I know his career will not be as long as I would like it to be. hes one of the nicest horses I've swung a leg over and so I understand your dilemma.
I paid $400 for mine... and honestly that was worth the risk. Any more than that and i would have saved myself the worry. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | Well, she had originally told me she would cut the price substantially but she messaged me last night and told me she had someone willing to pay full price for him so I am going to save myself the trouble (worry and the second vet check) and just take him back. I adore this horse and know that he COULD have a bright future but I am a firm believer in "if its meant to be it will be" and with this much pressure I don't think that it is.
I am really worried that the horse MIGHT have a real problem (navicular, arthritic, or just way out in the shoulder) and she will sell him with her clean vet check but I hope that whoever he goes to that they will get their vet to check him. |
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boon
Posts: 3
| There are several amazing lameness clinics around Weatherford Texas |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Next to Heaven - 2014-03-12 8:06 AM Well, she had originally told me she would cut the price substantially but she messaged me last night and told me she had someone willing to pay full price for him so I am going to save myself the trouble (worry and the second vet check ) and just take him back. I adore this horse and know that he COULD have a bright future but I am a firm believer in "if its meant to be it will be" and with this much pressure I don't think that it is. I am really worried that the horse MIGHT have a real problem (navicular, arthritic, or just way out in the shoulder ) and she will sell him with her clean vet check but I hope that whoever he goes to that they will get their vet to check him.
Bless your heart. I know this is a hard decision. But it is probably for the best. Just know that you can love the next one you find too. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 802
| Next to Heaven - 2014-03-12 7:06 AM Well, she had originally told me she would cut the price substantially but she messaged me last night and told me she had someone willing to pay full price for him so I am going to save myself the trouble (worry and the second vet check ) and just take him back. I adore this horse and know that he COULD have a bright future but I am a firm believer in "if its meant to be it will be" and with this much pressure I don't think that it is. I am really worried that the horse MIGHT have a real problem (navicular, arthritic, or just way out in the shoulder ) and she will sell him with her clean vet check but I hope that whoever he goes to that they will get their vet to check him.
Hugs to you, I think you are doing the right thing.
Maybe just me but I have enough trouble with my sound horses getting into scrapes, lamenesses, illness without starting with one with issues already.
Previous posters have mentioned a 2nd opinion on the navicular - this I agree with. It's very hard to dx navicular on a rad just like that. However, it is very hard to misdiagnose arthritis, it is very easy to see. And if he already has arthritis it's not going to go away. So on that alone I would have passed, navicular or not.
Just not meant to be your horse maybe!! Hope you find a good one! |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Next to Heaven, I am going to pm you. I know, just looking at how that horse is shod, that he is shod to MAKE him navicular and have arthritis in his ankle, even if he started out fine. Shoe on front foot is way too far forward...there's no shoe supporting the heel at all. Toe needs to be pulled back and looks like maybe a bigger shoe put on him. Personally, I think most navicular issues are caused by bad shoeing. It would be like you wearing bad shoes and trying to run...pretty soon you'd be crippled, too. JMO
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| Canchasr1 - 2014-03-11 8:07 AM
I have to say this..
I had TWO diagnosed with navicular changes at young ages... TWO. Both by the same vet at a very reputable clinic. The both had noticeable limp on circling with head bobbing. Not in a straight line.
The first one was my brothers mare. He sold her to an older gentleman for his grand daughter. They took her to their chiro as a maintenance thing. Her should was way out. Shoulder adjusted the girl started riding her with no limp. They re-xrayed her with another vet... no navicular... That mare made one butt kicking barrel horse that is sound to this day.
Second horse was a son of Mr Jess Perry that I bought off the slaughter truck. He had been sold by a high end barrel racer due to the SAME vet diagnosing with navicular changes. He was supposed to have been a pleasure only horse but was placed in the kill pen. I bought him, had him rexrayed, no navicular... none. But shoulder was way out of alignment. We had to pad his hoof to lift him up 3/4 inches , adjust the shoulder and reshod in three weeks. He went back to running 1-2D times and is still sound and winning.
My point to this is.... IF you like the horse, get a second opinion. Vets are not always right. What one might see as navicular, may be bad x rays, or even just not reading correctly.
(ETA: that vet also diagnosed my husbands horse with cysts in his growth plate in his left rear at a year old. Told us to put him down that he would never be sound. Eight years later, he is a reiner, calf horse and heel horse as well as using horse... never taken a lame step and can flat slide.... )
I agree, get a second (or third) opinion. I had a navicular OTTB that everyone told us to sell, but he really had the navicular issue because his hooves grew at much different angles. We had a farrier that took his time with the horse and eventually he was sound with no pads or bar shoes. Rode him every day until he died from surgical complications at age 24. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 443
Location: Southern IL somewhere between KY and MO | I'd get a 2nd opinion and for what its worth when it comes to building up your confidence and the horse works then get him are you planning on taking him to the NFR or just local shows? But seriously get a 2nd opinion. |
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 MEOW!
Posts: 4477
Location: High heels in the air... | Take him back and let them deal with his issues...too many out there worth having that are sound... |
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