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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else! |
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Expert
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| I agree to an extent but for everyone that makes it there are hundreds blown up in fields, its just DTF has more overall numbers.
Ive been wrong before, but not in the texas thread...
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else!
I'm gonna be guessing $$$$$$$$ 
I don't know what DTF prospects run, but I'm gonna assume they're not depreciating any time soon! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| If you can't ride papers, why does it matter? I believe in good breeding and getting horses with the lines that are bred to do the job, yet there are still so many people who still strongly believe that papers don't matter. Looking at those futurity results I don't know how you can think that, but anyway...
And there are probably less "blown up" ones than you think. There are such a small percentage of horses that can continue running at that high of a level for most of their life you just don't hear about them as much. It's not because they are blown up. Maybe they were sold to someone who just likes running at local jackpots or isn't a 1D rider. I equate it to being a star athlete in high school - how many of those make it to the "pros" in their sport? It's less than 5%. Same with barrel futurity horses going on to be NFR horses, the odds are just not in your favor. Doesn't mean they aren't nice horses that have long 4D careers with happy owners, you just don't read about them in BHN. People like to assume they were blown up because you stop hearing about them. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Itsme - 2014-03-17 2:37 PM I agree to an extent but for everyone that makes it there are hundreds blown up in fields, its just DTF has more overall numbers. Ive been wrong before, but not in the texas thread...
If you look at the 2010 produce for DTF VS FG. In this furturity alone DTF's for 2010 averaged $894 on 174 registered foals. FG on the other hand averaged $152 for this futurity per registered foal based on the 97 foal registered. That is 5.88 X's. The cost to purchase isn't that different on a dtf vs fg, but based on this race, the earning potential is a huge difference. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:54 PM Itsme - 2014-03-17 2:37 PM I agree to an extent but for everyone that makes it there are hundreds blown up in fields, its just DTF has more overall numbers. Ive been wrong before, but not in the texas thread... If you look at the 2010 produce for DTF VS FG. In this furturity alone DTF's for 2010 averaged $894 on 174 registered foals. FG on the other hand averaged $152 for this futurity per registered foal based on the 97 foal registered. That is 5.88 X's. The cost to purchase isn't that different on a dtf vs fg, but based on this race, the earning potential is a huge difference.
None of those DTF babies came from Texas, did they?? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| The interesting thing is DTF dominates futurities but not the NFR |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:30 PM
The interesting thing is DTF dominates futurities but not the NFR
There are more own get of DTF that have run at NFR than any other sire since people really started paying attention to breeding for barrel horses and keeping track of records. DTF has sired 8 of them. (Gonna Be Famous, JL Dash Ta Heaven, Dash Ta Vanila, Repete Fame, Real Claim Ta Fame, Swivel Ta Fame, Judge My Fame, Fantasia Fame). |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| 3 To Go - 2014-03-17 3:52 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:30 PM
The interesting thing is DTF dominates futurities but not the NFR
There are more own get of DTF that have run at NFR than any other sire since people really started paying attention to breeding for barrel horses and keeping track of records. DTF has sired 8 of them. (Gonna Be Famous, JL Dash Ta Heaven, Dash Ta Vanila, Repete Fame, Real Claim Ta Fame, Swivel Ta Fame, Judge My Fame, Fantasia Fame ).
You beat me to it!!! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| 3 To Go - 2014-03-17 3:52 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:30 PM
The interesting thing is DTF dominates futurities but not the NFR
There are more own get of DTF that have run at NFR than any other sire since people really started paying attention to breeding for barrel horses and keeping track of records. DTF has sired 8 of them. (Gonna Be Famous, JL Dash Ta Heaven, Dash Ta Vanila, Repete Fame, Real Claim Ta Fame, Swivel Ta Fame, Judge My Fame, Fantasia Fame ).
More then I thought, but how much money has been one on a DTF, as compared to FWF, PC Frenchmans Hayday, DFP, FG |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:57 PM
3 To Go - 2014-03-17 3:52 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:30 PM
The interesting thing is DTF dominates futurities but not the NFR
There are more own get of DTF that have run at NFR than any other sire since people really started paying attention to breeding for barrel horses and keeping track of records. DTF has sired 8 of them. (Gonna Be Famous, JL Dash Ta Heaven, Dash Ta Vanila, Repete Fame, Real Claim Ta Fame, Swivel Ta Fame, Judge My Fame, Fantasia Fame ).
More then I thought, but how much money has been one on a DTF, as compared to FWF, PC Frenchmans Hayday, DFP, FG
You could pull Equistat reports, but it's only been the last couple of years they have really been tracking rodeo earnings for the entire season. So they wouldn't be entirely accurate since several of the DTFs and others you listed ran before rodeo earnings were being kept throughout the year and not just at the NFR. I don't think it's a statistic that can be accurately used right now since until recent years rodeo record were largely incomplete compared to Futurity, Derby and 4D earnings being tracked. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Longneck - 2014-03-17 2:49 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else! I'm gonna be guessing $$$$$$$$ I don't know what DTF prospects run, but I'm gonna assume they're not depreciating any time soon!
Edited by Whiteboy 2014-03-17 5:20 PM
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 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | I'd love to have one. Maybe my fairy godmother will show up with a DTF for me. |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| I just have to finalize which made I'm using.....ugh! |
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else!
There aint no denying they are AWESOME! However, I think you need to do the % of DTF get and grand get who were ENTERED vs other horses ... there are dang sure a lot more DTFs than any other bloodline IMO. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | 3 To Go - 2014-03-17 4:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:57 PM 3 To Go - 2014-03-17 3:52 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:30 PM The interesting thing is DTF dominates futurities but not the NFR There are more own get of DTF that have run at NFR than any other sire since people really started paying attention to breeding for barrel horses and keeping track of records. DTF has sired 8 of them. (Gonna Be Famous, JL Dash Ta Heaven, Dash Ta Vanila, Repete Fame, Real Claim Ta Fame, Swivel Ta Fame, Judge My Fame, Fantasia Fame ). More then I thought, but how much money has been one on a DTF, as compared to FWF, PC Frenchmans Hayday, DFP, FG You could pull Equistat reports, but it's only been the last couple of years they have really been tracking rodeo earnings for the entire season. So they wouldn't be entirely accurate since several of the DTFs and others you listed ran before rodeo earnings were being kept throughout the year and not just at the NFR. I don't think it's a statistic that can be accurately used right now since until recent years rodeo record were largely incomplete compared to Futurity, Derby and 4D earnings being tracked.
^^ This is very true.
I'm not 100% positive on this, but isn't Stingray the only PC Frenchmans Hayday to run at the NFR? |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | Runnin < C > - 2014-03-17 8:24 PM
Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else!
There aint no denying they are AWESOME! However, I think you need to do the % of DTF get and grand get who were ENTERED vs other horses ... there are dang sure a lot more DTFs than any other bloodline IMO.
There are more of them BECAUSE of how natural they rate and still have the speed! I always laugh when I see this comment. There is always gonna be a great demand for what works and excels !!! |
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Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | mreklaw - 2014-03-17 8:38 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-03-17 8:24 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else! There aint no denying they are AWESOME! However, I think you need to do the % of DTF get and grand get who were ENTERED vs other horses ... there are dang sure a lot more DTFs than any other bloodline IMO. There are more of them BECAUSE of how natural they rate and still have the speed! I always laugh when I see this comment. There is always gonna be a great demand for what works and excels !!!
I like them too! Dont get me wrong ... all I'm saying is if you have 100 horsees entered and 40 are DTFs... 25 are FG ... 15 are DFP... 10 are OTMR ... 10 are BB.... More than likely there are going to be more DTF in the winners circle :) |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 12:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else!
Please look at the mare power to the stallion.... Proven.
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 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | There is a good reason so many win...they have that speed and a move to die for! I can't afford the real deal although I have started a few...but there are some really nice sons of DTF siring that same move! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| Runnin < C > - 2014-03-17 8:50 PM mreklaw - 2014-03-17 8:38 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-03-17 8:24 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else! There aint no denying they are AWESOME! However, I think you need to do the % of DTF get and grand get who were ENTERED vs other horses ... there are dang sure a lot more DTFs than any other bloodline IMO. There are more of them BECAUSE of how natural they rate and still have the speed! I always laugh when I see this comment. There is always gonna be a great demand for what works and excels !!! More than likely there are going to be more DTF in the winners circle : )
The statement they are winning has been used for a lot of bloodlines over the years. Lets say there are 100 horses, 50 are DTF, 75 are FG and 25 are others. All things being equal the odds would be highest on the DTF but in the horse world all things are not equal.
The theory that they win because there are so many of them can be countered by saying there are so many of them because they ARE winning. Sure the odds go up with a huge number of mares bred to him or whatever popular stud (and the quality of mare usually goes up) but again that doesn't happen without a reason. A friend of mine has a stallion and always says "Well if my stud got that many good mares he'd have winners too" I guess we'll never know because there just aren't many stallions that will ever have that situation due to lack of prowess in the pen, bloodlines or whatever mare owners seek. |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | amy laymon - 2014-03-17 9:05 PM
There is a good reason so many win...they have that speed and a move to die for! I can't afford the real deal although I have started a few...but there are some really nice sons of DTF siring that same move!
Not to mention all the DTF daughters producing winners with the same moves! Crossed on many different studs! |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Yep there is no denying Dash Ta Fame is one potent sire, both as a direct sire, a paternal grandsire, and a broodmare sire. Like someone else said, those horses are born with natural speed and the crave to turn. He is at the top of my list to breed my Strawflyin Buds mare to in a few years, if I could ever afford it. He would compliment her well without taking any run away. However, judging by the results, I could do pretty dang well breeding to one of his sons! (which I have already :P just waiting for it to get here). |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 5:10 PM
Longneck - 2014-03-17 2:49 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else! I'm gonna be guessing $$$$$$$$ I don't know what DTF prospects run, but I'm gonna assume they're not depreciating any time soon!
I'm glad to see so many Texas horses win! I was just being sarcastic/snarky when I asked about them coming from Texas. I don't guess it came out that way! |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Frenchie - 2014-03-17 9:13 PM
Runnin < C > - 2014-03-17 8:50 PM mreklaw - 2014-03-17 8:38 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-03-17 8:24 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else! There aint no denying they are AWESOME! However, I think you need to do the % of DTF get and grand get who were ENTERED vs other horses ... there are dang sure a lot more DTFs than any other bloodline IMO. There are more of them BECAUSE of how natural they rate and still have the speed! I always laugh when I see this comment. There is always gonna be a great demand for what works and excels !!! More than likely there are going to be more DTF in the winners circle : )
The theory that they win because there are so many of them can be countered by saying there are so many of them because they ARE winning. Sure the odds go up with a huge number of mares bred to him or whatever popular stud (and the quality of mare usually goes up) but again that doesn't happen without a reason. A friend of mine has a stallion and always says "Well if my stud got that many good mares he'd have winners too" I guess we'll never know because there just aren't many stallions that will ever have that situation due to lack of prowess in the pen, bloodlines or whatever mare owners seek.
I am not arguing that they are nice horses but they are also IMO getting MORE chances to succeed. They are a hot bloodline right now. So they are in high demand and more trainers are getting on them because they are the "hot" thing and they also are proven. Im just saying I understand what Running C is saying.
As far as the PC Hayday, i think theres been at least 3 in barrels.... stingray and george and I thought another. Then they are also used in the roping arena which probably doesnt matter for this thread. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| MS2011 - 2014-03-17 6:26 PM
3 To Go - 2014-03-17 4:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:57 PM 3 To Go - 2014-03-17 3:52 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-03-17 1:30 PM The interesting thing is DTF dominates futurities but not the NFR There are more own get of DTF that have run at NFR than any other sire since people really started paying attention to breeding for barrel horses and keeping track of records. DTF has sired 8 of them. (Gonna Be Famous, JL Dash Ta Heaven, Dash Ta Vanila, Repete Fame, Real Claim Ta Fame, Swivel Ta Fame, Judge My Fame, Fantasia Fame ). More then I thought, but how much money has been one on a DTF, as compared to FWF, PC Frenchmans Hayday, DFP, FG You could pull Equistat reports, but it's only been the last couple of years they have really been tracking rodeo earnings for the entire season. So they wouldn't be entirely accurate since several of the DTFs and others you listed ran before rodeo earnings were being kept throughout the year and not just at the NFR. I don't think it's a statistic that can be accurately used right now since until recent years rodeo record were largely incomplete compared to Futurity, Derby and 4D earnings being tracked.
I'm not 100% positive on this, but isn't Stingray the only PC Frenchmans Hayday to run at the NFR?
Sherry ran George in a couple of rounds after Stingray fell the year before last. Tammy Fischer also ran hers but he did not qualify her, Roundpen was injured. There have been a few in the Steer Wrestling and Team Roping as well. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Runnin < C > - 2014-03-17 8:24 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else! There aint no denying they are AWESOME! However, I think you need to do the % of DTF get and grand get who were ENTERED vs other horses ... there are dang sure a lot more DTFs than any other bloodline IMO.
There are more DTF than any other, they represent 25% all the horses running in this futurity. |
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Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | Whiteboy - 2014-03-18 9:29 AM Runnin < C > - 2014-03-17 8:24 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-17 2:22 PM Dash Ta Fame direct get and grand-get represented 50% of the futurity finalists. They also took home $155,559 or 68% of the futurity money. There wasn't any other sire or grand sire that was even close to this kind of haul. I'm beginning to question why anybody would own anything else! There aint no denying they are AWESOME! However, I think you need to do the % of DTF get and grand get who were ENTERED vs other horses ... there are dang sure a lot more DTFs than any other bloodline IMO.
Cool facts!!! Love this post!!!! They are athletes for sure!!!!! |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | Still wouldn't own one..... If someone gave one to me I would love to sell it.
Flame away. Dislike if you will, but that's my opinion. |
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 Butter my Biscuits
Posts: 2948
Location: MI | This isn't new News or just unique to Diamonds and Dirt. If you take a look at Barrel Futurity Sire stats for 2009, #1 is DTF with $238,156. Runnerelse was #2 with $138,076. Bully Bowlan Bug was #3 with $90,336. Firewater Flit was #6 at $41,148 and Frenchmans Guy was #7 at$40,154. The people that are out running and riding have known this for several years. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | rodeomom13 - 2014-03-18 10:03 AM Still wouldn't own one..... If someone gave one to me I would love to sell it.
Flame away. Dislike if you will, but that's my opinion.
May I ask why? I don't want to start any fights, but I am curious. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| BandWranch - 2014-03-18 1:30 PM
This isn't new News or just unique to Diamonds and Dirt. If you take a look at Barrel Futurity Sire stats for 2009, #1 is DTF with $238,156. Runnerelse was #2 with $138,076. Bully Bowlan Bug was #3 with $90,336. Firewater Flit was #6 at $41,148 and Frenchmans Guy was #7 at$40,154. The people that are out running and riding have known this for several years.
Glad to see you on here! That was one of the purposes of my original post, even though I wasn't specific. I figured this was the same at all the other futurities, I just had this information in front of me. Pretty awesome what he has produced, and pretty awesome that it is still happening as a maternal and paternal grandsire also. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Now, what if Chics Beduino had numbers like that in futurities, would you all put down your hatin'?
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-03-18 2:44 PM Now, what if Chics Beduino had numbers like that in futurities, would you all put down your hatin'?
But CB doesn't have those numbers, not even close. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Whiteboy - 2014-03-18 2:49 PM
HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-03-18 2:44 PM Now, what if Chics Beduino had numbers like that in futurities, would you all put down your hatin'?
Yes, he died before barrel racing really got serious about futurities, and we were all still just taking rejects from other disciplines. I was joking.
But you do see his name on the pedigrees of quite a few good barrel horse sires. |
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Butter my Biscuits
Posts: 2948
Location: MI | Decided to go even farther back and it is even more significant. Stats for barrel sires for 2007...DTF #1 with 617,469, Marthas Six Moons #2 with $142,520. Title Contender #3 with $120,700. Frenchmans Guy #6 with $56,179. Firewater Flit #7 with $51,136 and Bully Bullion #8 with$45,837 |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| So, here in Utah dtf's have been around a long time, this is where bob burt lives. When did his get start showing up on the national scene? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| Whiteboy - 2014-03-18 4:06 PM
So, here in Utah dtf's have been around a long time, this is where bob burt lives. When did his get start showing up on the national scene?
Probably when Vicki, Terri and Anne started kicking everyone's butt with them in the late 90's and early 2000's. I always thought Vicki had the first one - Gems For Royalty, that I really remember. She ran in the late 90's. Then Terri had a few and when Martha got Fame Fox Kirk from Anne they really took off after that. His futurity year was 2000. The DTFs have been around for a while now. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | So with all the good stat numbers being posted, alot cant breed to DTF himself, so which son of his is the strongest sire? |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | rodeomom13 - 2014-03-18 10:03 AM Still wouldn't own one..... If someone gave one to me I would love to sell it.
Flame away. Dislike if you will, but that's my opinion.
Meh, each to their own. It's not the first time I have heard this and it honestly doesn't suprise me or hurt my feelings. I am in love with my DTF grand get but that's me. I, on the other hand, do not care for DFP horses. Absolutely nothing against them they just aren't for me and I have had people get their panties in a wad over it. Everybody has their own likes and dislikes which is great for keeping outcross options open too! |
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"aint no Barbie"
Posts: 2272
Location: san antonio texas | rodeomom13 - 2014-03-18 10:03 AM Still wouldn't own one..... If someone gave one to me I would love to sell it.
Flame away. Dislike if you will, but that's my opinion.
I prefer grandsons and grandaughters of DTF over direct sons and daughters myself. |
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 MEOW!
Posts: 4477
Location: High heels in the air... | My vet says DTF horeses are a veterinarians dream...lots of stuff to do to keep em put together...Carlos, I had two and sold them both...hard to keep sound!! |
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | For those who can, could you please post the number of foals born per year and the success(%) of that foal crop had, then do the math? Just not a member of the AQHA any longer. In the T/B industry you can do that, and it's amazing to see those who shine early and those who don't shine at all.
Edited by fatchance 2014-03-18 10:46 PM
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | Longneck - 2014-03-18 1:04 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-03-18 10:03 AM Still wouldn't own one..... If someone gave one to me I would love to sell it.
Flame away. Dislike if you will, but that's my opinion. May I ask why? I don't want to start any fights, but I am curious.
What Cowboyup said. ^^^^^
Every DTF I have been around, as in friends owning and running have had constant soundness problems. There seems that there is always something wrong with them.
Maybe that is because they are so fast coming along and hammered in futurities, I don't know. But there are way too many other horses out there that will last longer and run past 7-8 years old. How many DTF's have made the NFR for example? For the amount of DTF horses out there running barrels, you would think we would see more of the same horse year after year.
If I was in it to train and sell and had no interest in one for the long haul, maybe I would consider it. But I'm looking more long term success, therefore I steer clear of DTFs.
JMHO |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | What about packin sixes, I read that he would have been the next DTF if he hadn't died so early, I read this when I was researching them after I bought one.
We have a DTF/OTMR filly in our barn right now, has all the traits of DTF conformational wise, she's nice, I like her style but not to keen on how small her feet and legs are.
Bloodlines are good to have but I'd rather have one that's all heart and super honest , which is my gelding.
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 Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2411
Location: Wisconsin | amy laymon - 2014-03-17 9:05 PM There is a good reason so many win...they have that speed and a move to die for! I can't afford the real deal although I have started a few...but there are some really nice sons of DTF siring that same move!
 Im running a beautiful grandson, and love him!! So I invested in a Son of DTF and out of a Frenchmans Guy?bully Bullion mare(stakes producer). He is beautiful and so correct. I think they are also not only for their athletic ability but for the desire. I think they were smart (owners of DTF) to have that price up their where the serious peeps were training. My colts name is "Fames French Ryan"!! I hope we will all see his name in the future. PS you do a fine job training them too, Amy :) |
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Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2411
Location: Wisconsin | CowboyUp!!! - 2014-03-18 8:56 PM My vet says DTF horeses are a veterinarians dream...lots of stuff to do to keep em put together...Carlos, I had two and sold them both...hard to keep sound!! Mine hasnt had as much as a bute tablet....just saying., let alone ANY injections.
Edited by nettieb3 2014-03-18 11:48 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | I have a 17 year old DTF daughter. She ran at the track, was put in a claiming race and won it...match racers claimed her and she was matched raced for quite a while before being sold to a barrel racer for a broodmare. She is SOUND and I have watched her haul butt across the turn out...bucking, kicking, etc. She has good bone and feet, clean legs, no blemishes.
I just love the way that mare is put together and the her durability. She throws colts with good bone, can't wait for her Chasin Firewater baby this year. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 488
Location: torrington, wy | What more can you ask for.... they have the speed they want to turn, the mares are producing, if he is not the first choice, why are all the other stallion owners looking for DTF daughters? |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| Year and years ago, say 1996/97 or so, when I started looking into baby daddys for the first time, and when speed and performance horses still had a presence in the Journal, I saw DTF. Besides his color (I hadn't banned sorrels from my breeding program yet, but I've never preferred sorrel or chestnut), I saw legs that made me wonder how the horse was still on his feet, ever ran, or anything! This was also before heavily photoshopped became the norm since I've seen the same pic again after photoshopping and his legs have been improved (can't correct all the angles, but whatever). I passed him by on his legs alone.
I know his get are awesome barrel horses. I know his get have a high earning number from the track. But they do generally break down early and easy. I've known one big $$ futurity winner who at age 5 couldn't make it thru a multi-day show. Put up for sale for a LOT of $$'s, didn't sell, turned out, then brought up slowly a couple years later. Running good now but I don't know what it's taking to keep it competitive. I've read about too many others following that same path.
This is one place I have to stand firm on. I will not breed to a horse that I believe, from clear evidence and not just rumors, is going to weaken the breed. We've already bred the feet off quarter horses by the Thoroughbred infusion (and linebreeding 1600 lb halter horses down to a size 000), I can not breed to a horse that is (was) that far over in his knees.
At the same time I saw DTF I also saw Bully Bullion, Zan Parr Deck, Dash For Perks, Firewater Flit, Frenchmans Guy, and a plethora of other top sires who did not exhibit such defects.
I have been contemplating a daughter to breed to my DFP colt. Someday, maybe, but she's going to have to be straight as the day is long and her dams side must be known for good legs. I've also considered a DTF son to cover one or more of my mares but can't seem to settle comfortably on one or the other. LSOF would be a no brainer since he's passed the test of time, I just wish he wasn't RED. |
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 The Peaceful One
Posts: 1415
Location: Only a stones throw away!! | HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-03-18 2:44 PM
Now, what if Chics Beduino had numbers like that in futurities, would you all put down your hatin'?
my DTF"s bottom side is CB.... he is sweet and would run on 3 legs!! His spirit level is on PLAY most of the time but he loves his job |
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Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | lonely va barrelxr - 2014-03-19 12:19 PM Year and years ago, say 1996/97 or so, when I started looking into baby daddys for the first time, and when speed and performance horses still had a presence in the Journal, I saw DTF. Besides his color (I hadn't banned sorrels from my breeding program yet, but I've never preferred sorrel or chestnut), I saw legs that made me wonder how the horse was still on his feet, ever ran, or anything! This was also before heavily photoshopped became the norm since I've seen the same pic again after photoshopping and his legs have been improved (can't correct all the angles, but whatever). I passed him by on his legs alone.
I know his get are awesome barrel horses. I know his get have a high earning number from the track. But they do generally break down early and easy. I've known one big $$ futurity winner who at age 5 couldn't make it thru a multi-day show. Put up for sale for a LOT of $$'s, didn't sell, turned out, then brought up slowly a couple years later. Running good now but I don't know what it's taking to keep it competitive. I've read about too many others following that same path.
This is one place I have to stand firm on. I will not breed to a horse that I believe, from clear evidence and not just rumors, is going to weaken the breed. We've already bred the feet off quarter horses by the Thoroughbred infusion (and linebreeding 1600 lb halter horses down to a size 000), I can not breed to a horse that is (was) that far over in his knees.
At the same time I saw DTF I also saw Bully Bullion, Zan Parr Deck, Dash For Perks, Firewater Flit, Frenchmans Guy, and a plethora of other top sires who did not exhibit such defects.
I have been contemplating a daughter to breed to my DFP colt. Someday, maybe, but she's going to have to be straight as the day is long and her dams side must be known for good legs. I've also considered a DTF son to cover one or more of my mares but can't seem to settle comfortably on one or the other. LSOF would be a no brainer since he's passed the test of time, I just wish he wasn't RED.
My question has always been do they break down early because they are destined to (ie: conformation issues) or do they break down early because they are so talented people push too hard and they don't show issues until they become a really big issue?
I think barrel horses in general are a vet's dream. We like to find all sorts of problems to throw money at and we buy horses that tear themselves apart to be faster. There are no problem free lines. Heck the hind legs on OTMR make me cringe but he sired a lot of winners too, many with those same hindlegs. |
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Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| AllAroundRider - 2014-03-19 5:21 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2014-03-19 12:19 PM Year and years ago, say 1996/97 or so, when I started looking into baby daddys for the first time, and when speed and performance horses still had a presence in the Journal, I saw DTF. Besides his color (I hadn't banned sorrels from my breeding program yet, but I've never preferred sorrel or chestnut), I saw legs that made me wonder how the horse was still on his feet, ever ran, or anything! This was also before heavily photoshopped became the norm since I've seen the same pic again after photoshopping and his legs have been improved (can't correct all the angles, but whatever). I passed him by on his legs alone.
I know his get are awesome barrel horses. I know his get have a high earning number from the track. But they do generally break down early and easy. I've known one big $$ futurity winner who at age 5 couldn't make it thru a multi-day show. Put up for sale for a LOT of $$'s, didn't sell, turned out, then brought up slowly a couple years later. Running good now but I don't know what it's taking to keep it competitive. I've read about too many others following that same path.
This is one place I have to stand firm on. I will not breed to a horse that I believe, from clear evidence and not just rumors, is going to weaken the breed. We've already bred the feet off quarter horses by the Thoroughbred infusion (and linebreeding 1600 lb halter horses down to a size 000), I can not breed to a horse that is (was) that far over in his knees.
At the same time I saw DTF I also saw Bully Bullion, Zan Parr Deck, Dash For Perks, Firewater Flit, Frenchmans Guy, and a plethora of other top sires who did not exhibit such defects.
I have been contemplating a daughter to breed to my DFP colt. Someday, maybe, but she's going to have to be straight as the day is long and her dams side must be known for good legs. I've also considered a DTF son to cover one or more of my mares but can't seem to settle comfortably on one or the other. LSOF would be a no brainer since he's passed the test of time, I just wish he wasn't RED. My question has always been do they break down early because they are destined to (ie: conformation issues) or do they break down early because they are so talented people push too hard and they don't show issues until they become a really big issue?
I think barrel horses in general are a vet's dream. We like to find all sorts of problems to throw money at and we buy horses that tear themselves apart to be faster. There are no problem free lines. Heck the hind legs on OTMR make me cringe but he sired a lot of winners too, many with those same hindlegs.
I know what you're saying -- DTF's are so very successful so quickly that they are easy to get going in the 4yo futurities, and that is very tough on young bodies. But I decided before DTF was known as such a successful futurity sire that I didn't like his looks, based on conformation, so my opinion was only reinforced through the years. I absolutely recognize the $$$ that he represents -- but as so many have pointed out on so many subjects: just because you can, should you? |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Funny for me, most of the own get of DTF I have seen personally from my friends owning them, are all older open horses or rodeo horses. One of my friends is on the pro rodeo trail, in the top 20 in the world, and one of her horses is a DTF mare who runs and hauls barefoot.
I wouldn't hesitate to own one at all. A few questions of mine come to mind-
1- Do some people over inject, giving it a conception that they need more maintenance? I had a big time trainer tell me how many times per year and what joints one of my mares was going to need based on her BA75 influence. I have always injected as needed, and what I have needed with her was about half as often as what I was told. I have also been to vets where if I said I wanted X, Y, and Z injected, there was no questions asked and no lameness exams done, and they were all lined up an injected. I go to vets now who do lameness exams every time and honestly, more often than not I am told they don't need it.
2- does the intense training from 2YO-4YO predispose futurity horses to injury? since DTF dominates the futurity world, is it really causative that they are more prone to getting hurt? There's so many more in futurity training, odds are you will hear about them getting hurt, just like you hear about them winning, etc..
3- What about looking at TOP horses all across the board- how often do they get hurt? With all of my very good horses, the ones that run with all their heart and might every time, all of those have gotten hurt, needed maintenance, etc, at some point in their career, and I have yet to even own a DTF. My youth horses and the ones that didn't quite put out the effort and run as hard as my best horses, were the ones I never had to do anything for, who were sound all their lives, etc. Perhaps the DTFs are so talented and do things to the best extent, that is the nature of the beast- athletes get injuries.
I mean think of it.. Duke is still on the injured list, Latte hurt right now, Martha has had time off for various reasons, Mulberry had front feet issues, Hotshot tore a suspensory because I remember reading an article how they switched to the smallest daughter for him to help with weight…I know I am only scratching the surface of injuries related to very talented horses.
Edited by casualdust07 2014-03-19 7:00 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| fatchance - 2014-03-19 7:04 PM
For those who can, could you please post the number of foals born per year and the success(%) of that foal crop had, then do the math? Just not a member of the AQHA any longer. In the T/B industry you can do that, and it's amazing to see those who shine early and those who don't shine at all.
He has 2600 foals 1400 to perform in aqha sanctioned events and there's a lot of people who don't run at shows or race |
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Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2411
Location: Wisconsin | casualdust07 - 2014-03-19 6:58 PM Funny for me, most of the own get of DTF I have seen personally from my friends owning them, are all older open horses or rodeo horses. One of my friends is on the pro rodeo trail, in the top 20 in the world, and one of her horses is a DTF mare who runs and hauls barefoot. I wouldn't hesitate to own one at all. A few questions of mine come to mind- 1- Do some people over inject, giving it a conception that they need more maintenance? I had a big time trainer tell me how many times per year and what joints one of my mares was going to need based on her BA75 influence. I have always injected as needed, and what I have needed with her was about half as often as what I was told. I have also been to vets where if I said I wanted X, Y, and Z injected, there was no questions asked and no lameness exams done, and they were all lined up an injected. I go to vets now who do lameness exams every time and honestly, more often than not I am told they don't need it. 2- does the intense training from 2YO-4YO predispose futurity horses to injury? since DTF dominates the futurity world, is it really causative that they are more prone to getting hurt? There's so many more in futurity training, odds are you will hear about them getting hurt, just like you hear about them winning, etc.. 3- What about looking at TOP horses all across the board- how often do they get hurt? With all of my very good horses, the ones that run with all their heart and might every time, all of those have gotten hurt, needed maintenance, etc, at some point in their career, and I have yet to even own a DTF. My youth horses and the ones that didn't quite put out the effort and run as hard as my best horses, were the ones I never had to do anything for, who were sound all their lives, etc. Perhaps the DTFs are so talented and do things to the best extent, that is the nature of the beast- athletes get injuries. I mean think of it.. Duke is still on the injured list, Latte hurt right now, Martha has had time off for various reasons, Mulberry had front feet issues, Hotshot tore a suspensory because I remember reading an article how they switched to the smallest daughter for him to help with weight…I know I am only scratching the surface of injuries related to very talented horses.
Good Grief charlie brown....They have legs like tree stumps and good big feet. And I have trained quite a few of them. Of course if one hears of one breaking down, they never think of the person who is running them. And you will hear of one now and then, as there are so many! (I havent personally known any yet)! |
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Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2411
Location: Wisconsin | Casualdust...not sure how my post got attached to yours. sorry. |
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Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2411
Location: Wisconsin | lonely va barrelxr - 2014-03-19 5:42 PM AllAroundRider - 2014-03-19 5:21 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2014-03-19 12:19 PM Year and years ago, say 1996/97 or so, when I started looking into baby daddys for the first time, and when speed and performance horses still had a presence in the Journal, I saw DTF. Besides his color (I hadn't banned sorrels from my breeding program yet, but I've never preferred sorrel or chestnut), I saw legs that made me wonder how the horse was still on his feet, ever ran, or anything! This was also before heavily photoshopped became the norm since I've seen the same pic again after photoshopping and his legs have been improved (can't correct all the angles, but whatever). I passed him by on his legs alone.
I know his get are awesome barrel horses. I know his get have a high earning number from the track. But they do generally break down early and easy. I've known one big $$ futurity winner who at age 5 couldn't make it thru a multi-day show. Put up for sale for a LOT of $$'s, didn't sell, turned out, then brought up slowly a couple years later. Running good now but I don't know what it's taking to keep it competitive. I've read about too many others following that same path.
This is one place I have to stand firm on. I will not breed to a horse that I believe, from clear evidence and not just rumors, is going to weaken the breed. We've already bred the feet off quarter horses by the Thoroughbred infusion (and linebreeding 1600 lb halter horses down to a size 000), I can not breed to a horse that is (was) that far over in his knees.
At the same time I saw DTF I also saw Bully Bullion, Zan Parr Deck, Dash For Perks, Firewater Flit, Frenchmans Guy, and a plethora of other top sires who did not exhibit such defects.
I have been contemplating a daughter to breed to my DFP colt. Someday, maybe, but she's going to have to be straight as the day is long and her dams side must be known for good legs. I've also considered a DTF son to cover one or more of my mares but can't seem to settle comfortably on one or the other. LSOF would be a no brainer since he's passed the test of time, I just wish he wasn't RED. My question has always been do they break down early because they are destined to (ie: conformation issues) or do they break down early because they are so talented people push too hard and they don't show issues until they become a really big issue?
I think barrel horses in general are a vet's dream. We like to find all sorts of problems to throw money at and we buy horses that tear themselves apart to be faster. There are no problem free lines. Heck the hind legs on OTMR make me cringe but he sired a lot of winners too, many with those same hindlegs.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1056
| I want a Dr. Nick Bar |
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Diamonds and Dirt should be renamed the Dash Ta Fame Futurity!