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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
   
Location: South Central Florida | I'm going to try to ask this question again with out it getting deleted. Sorry
Okay, what do you think the absolute top tier horse...the best in the United States, could realistically cost and still be profitable.
There have been discussions of horse values from $750K up to 2.5 million. I don't see how this is even in a conversation.
I've seen the TB sales that colts and fillies go for upwards in the millions, but the prices are based on future profitability...race winnings being a small part of that.
I have never seen an AQHA sell for those prices for several reasons. But a Finished Seasoned and winning at the top level barrel horse, I just can't see them even coming close to making enough money to pay for themselves.
If I look at the top, THE VERY TOP say 5 horses over the past 3 years. We are talking about each horse grossing in the hundred thousands and the low hundred thousands a year. And that's Gross, no one tracks the cost of running Rodeo horses (for good reason).
The numbers that are often discussed seem rediculeous. When they talk about a Barrel Racer or really any rodeo competitor making over a million dollars, they are talking about a life time and much more than one horse.
I would guess there is the random parent or person that wants the fame, but I can't see that being a market indicator. (If I had that kind of money.....I would have mounted my kid on the best I could afford, so I'm not dissing...just being real)
Now if we were talking NASCAR...where they basically hire the drivers and make millions on a great car and great driver, but the driver doesn't have to pay for everything. . . sponsors do that. The Sponsors also make millions in advertising blah blah blah
So I want this discussion to be about pricing and realistic ability for the price to make a profit. Calculating in life expextency of the animal, injuries, time off, and everything else. How much could someone pay and realitically still afford to make a profit. I'm gussing $125K to way outside $250K.
Does any one know of a horse being purchased for MORE than that? Really, not heard the someone heard that a friend knew....actually know of a horse going for more than $500K or really several? |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| Just barrel horses? I've seen a lot of people double the horses earnings so if they have won 125k the horses price could be 250k.. But most of theses horses are soldby word of mouth..
I know reiners who have sold for 150k that don't have an amazing record..
Pleasure horses selling for 400k+ |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| The cutting industry has prices that make you gasp - all AQHA. But that's cutting.
The highest priced solid been-there-done-that has the results to prove it horse I've ever seen a listed price on is $125,000. The owners still have that horse.
I've heard of asking prices above $150,000. Those owners still have that horse too.
I've heard of one who was a true blue 1D with the results to prove it go for $75,000, and saw the check to prove it.
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | I think at the end of the day the best answer to your question is going to be the one that has been given for years and years. A horse is worth what someone is willing to sell it for and what the next person is willing to pay for it. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | If I was in the market for that level of horse (and I'm certainly not) I would expect to spend somewhere around $200-300K +/- There are so many variables to consider; maintenance issues, sex, age, winning record, pedigree, etc... |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Reportedly, Dillon sold for $425,000. |
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 Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | what is it worth to you and are willing to pay. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | People pay crazy amounts of money for things all the time that are not meant to be profitable.
why should horses be any different? |
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Veteran
Posts: 291
| There are quite a few people who do not need to make a profit but want to win. |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-03-19 11:20 AM I think at the end of the day the best answer to your question is going to be the one that has been given for years and years. A horse is worth what someone is willing to sell it for and what the next person is willing to pay for it.
This.... |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | I don't think that one can realistically hope to purchase a true top tier horse and hope to earn enough on them to make a profit. What buying a high end, high dollar horse will do is get you a reputation with which you can make money. With enough notoriety and wins come endorsements, clinics, product lines and the like.
How many Steinhoff saddles do you think would be sold had they never purchased HotShot? How many Pozzi bits would be sold were it not for Stitch and Duke? A good horse and good wins give a rider credibility and that is why a large purchase price can easily be justified |
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Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | ThreeCorners - 2014-03-19 11:58 AM Reportedly, Dillon sold for $425,000.
what did Stitch "reportedly" sell for.....just curious......... |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I know lots will disagree with me, and I understand we are all raised differently. It's what makes the world go round after all. But I believe that people don't know a definitive answer to your question because the only people who actually DO know what specific horses have sold for, have the class to not go posting dollar amounts on the internet. A lot of people are taught to keep financial matters private. |
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Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| BamaCanChaser - 2014-03-19 1:14 PM I know lots will disagree with me, and I understand we are all raised differently. It's what makes the world go round after all. But I believe that people don't know a definitive answer to your question because the only people who actually DO know what specific horses have sold for, have the class to not go posting dollar amounts on the internet. A lot of people are taught to keep financial matters private.
I'd agree, except with exceptions of course. What I posted did not mention names in any way, shape or form. No states involved, no hinted names, nada.
Since when is passing on that type of information classless? I kept all the pertinent information private. To me, not answering Tammy's question would have been much more rude than passing on the bare naked facts I have to pass on. I could fill pages with the deals I've only heard about . . . same as anyone else in the Barrel Horse World, I'm sure. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I bought a horse from the guy that trained a mare that went to the NFR and he said he got $200K for her. I'm know of several that have brought over $100K and they won that much after being bought. Not sure about $500K...haven't heard of any of those, but there sure may be some out there....I'm not sure what the Brazilians paid for Miss Fortunes Fool, but it was said in BHN that she was the high selling barrel horse at that time. That price may have been surpassed by now. |
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Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | lonely va barrelxr - 2014-03-19 1:20 PM
BamaCanChaser - 2014-03-19 1:14 PM I know lots will disagree with me, and I understand we are all raised differently. It's what makes the world go round after all. But I believe that people don't know a definitive answer to your question because the only people who actually DO know what specific horses have sold for, have the class to not go posting dollar amounts on the internet. A lot of people are taught to keep financial matters private.
I'd agree, except with exceptions of course. What I posted did not mention names in any way, shape or form. No states involved, no hinted names, nada.
Since when is passing on that type of information classless? I kept all the pertinent information private. To me, not answering Tammy's question would have been much more rude than passing on the bare naked facts I have to pass on. I could fill pages with the deals I've only heard about . . . same as anyone else in the Barrel Horse World, I'm sure.
I agree with you. Posting very vague information, like "I know of a horse that sold for $75k." doesn't deem anyone classless in my book either. I assumed the OP was wanting to hear of specific instances.
I bought my first 1D horse while in hs rodeo, no where near the figures of this conversation, I really just got lucky. The owner was in a pickle and I got a screaming deal on him. Soon as I started winning the chatter started, when I didn't win it was even worse. The amounts I started hearing that I paid for MY horse were astounding. I shouldn't have let it bother me, but I'm a very private person and it did.
Just wanted to share a different perspective on the topic. If the buyers/sellers of these horses were ok with the world knowing they would give the interviews to the magazines who I'm sure asked them. The prices that are public, then those people must not be bothered by it. |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | dianeguinn - 2014-03-19 1:25 PM I bought a horse from the guy that trained a mare that went to the NFR and he said he got $200K for her. I'm know of several that have brought over $100K and they won that much after being bought. Not sure about $500K...haven't heard of any of those, but there sure may be some out there....I'm not sure what the Brazilians paid for Miss Fortunes Fool, but it was said in BHN that she was the high selling barrel horse at that time. That price may have been surpassed by now.
$356k
http://www.barrelhorsenews.com/articles/industry-news/3334-miss-fortunes-fool-changes-hands-in-record-setting-transaction-
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| dianeguinn - 2014-03-19 1:25 PM I bought a horse from the guy that trained a mare that went to the NFR and he said he got $200K for her. I'm know of several that have brought over $100K and they won that much after being bought. Not sure about $500K...haven't heard of any of those, but there sure may be some out there....I'm not sure what the Brazilians paid for Miss Fortunes Fool, but it was said in BHN that she was the high selling barrel horse at that time. That price may have been surpassed by now.
http://www.barrelhorsenews.com/articles/industry-news/3334 |
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 Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Pilot Point, TX | Ms Perky Bug sold for $465,000 in Brazil last year. |
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Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| BamaCanChaser - 2014-03-19 1:50 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2014-03-19 1:20 PM BamaCanChaser - 2014-03-19 1:14 PM I know lots will disagree with me, and I understand we are all raised differently. It's what makes the world go round after all. But I believe that people don't know a definitive answer to your question because the only people who actually DO know what specific horses have sold for, have the class to not go posting dollar amounts on the internet. A lot of people are taught to keep financial matters private.
I'd agree, except with exceptions of course. What I posted did not mention names in any way, shape or form. No states involved, no hinted names, nada.
Since when is passing on that type of information classless? I kept all the pertinent information private. To me, not answering Tammy's question would have been much more rude than passing on the bare naked facts I have to pass on. I could fill pages with the deals I've only heard about . . . same as anyone else in the Barrel Horse World, I'm sure. I agree with you. Posting very vague information, like "I know of a horse that sold for $75k." doesn't deem anyone classless in my book either. I assumed the OP was wanting to hear of specific instances. I bought my first 1D horse while in hs rodeo, no where near the figures of this conversation, I really just got lucky. The owner was in a pickle and I got a screaming deal on him. Soon as I started winning the chatter started, when I didn't win it was even worse. The amounts I started hearing that I paid for MY horse were astounding. I shouldn't have let it bother me, but I'm a very private person and it did. Just wanted to share a different perspective on the topic. If the buyers/sellers of these horses were ok with the world knowing they would give the interviews to the magazines who I'm sure asked them. The prices that are public, then those people must not be bothered by it.
Gotcha 
The OP and I know each other so yep, she can pm me if she wants to know the specific owners or horses I mentioned. |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | savannahann03 - 2014-03-19 2:05 PM Ms Perky Bug sold for $465,000 in Brazil last year.
$465k Brazilian = $356k American dollars. |
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Location: California | For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale. |
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Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Pilot Point, TX | linds - 2014-03-19 2:10 PM
savannahann03 - 2014-03-19 2:05 PM Ms Perky Bug sold for $465,000 in Brazil last year.
$465k Brazilian = $356k American dollars.
In the article that was written with help from Courtney, it says "she sold at public auction for the high bid of what is the Brazilian equivalent to $465,000."
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | savannahann03 - 2014-03-19 2:41 PM linds - 2014-03-19 2:10 PM savannahann03 - 2014-03-19 2:05 PM Ms Perky Bug sold for $465,000 in Brazil last year. $465k Brazilian = $356k American dollars. In the article that was written with help from Courtney, it says "she sold at public auction for the high bid of what is the Brazilian equivalent to $465,000."
This article says 356US, 624 Brazilian. A lot either way 
http://www.barrelhorsenews.com/articles/industry-news/3334-miss-fortunes-fool-changes-hands-in-record-setting-transaction- |
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Veteran
Posts: 102
| NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM
For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale.
Go |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | caboy61 - 2014-03-19 3:52 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale. Go
Keeneland is a crapshoot also----I have seen a lot of horses go through there and bring 250,000 plus and never make it to the track.
IMO--these people that are at the top of the rodeo industry are willing to pay huge money for these horses in order to stay at the top and keep their sponsors--I don't think it is a matter of the horse making that money back but keeping their name in the limelight. |
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Location: California | caboy61 - 2014-03-19 12:52 PM
NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM
For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale.
Go
I am. Just as soon as I raise the funds on my donation page. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | In my 39 meager years on this earth, I have learned one very important thing. There is one heck of a lot more money in peoples bank accounts than ANY of us realize. IMO, someone who is willing to pay that$100K or higher price tag is not doing it for the money but the fame. They have the funds to travel and go regardless of winning or loosing. Some are very fortunate to be able to win enough to get their sponsors and therefore can continue on. I do not want to even begin to understand how one could justify the prices people ask for their animals. Big money is available in any industry. Some people have it to burn. I only imagine what I would do with unlimited funds, no matter where it came from. Right now in my neck of the woods, oil money is fueling a lot of the business and it shows. More power to you if you can spend it! I wish people would share their secrets, wouldn't it be nice to be able to learn from them? For the record, my good horse, I spent $550 on him as a weanling-maybe someday, there will be stories about how much I spent on him and this little BHW post will confirm for those that are curious or spreading rumors.  Great post thanks! |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| NonaY - 2014-03-19 3:04 PM caboy61 - 2014-03-19 12:52 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale. Go I am. Just as soon as I raise the funds on my donation page.
you need crowdfunding! lol |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Whiteboy - 2014-03-19 3:22 PM
NonaY - 2014-03-19 3:04 PM caboy61 - 2014-03-19 12:52 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale. Go I am. Just as soon as I raise the funds on my donation page.
I heard gofundme.com doesn't ask questions... |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| barrelracr131 - 2014-03-19 3:27 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-19 3:22 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 3:04 PM caboy61 - 2014-03-19 12:52 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale. Go I am. Just as soon as I raise the funds on my donation page. I heard gofundme.com doesn't ask questions...
it is a nice idea but not as useful as some might hope. |
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10D Crack Champion
| NonaY - 2014-03-19 3:04 PM
caboy61 - 2014-03-19 12:52 PM
NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM
For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale.
Go
I am. Just as soon as I raise the funds on my donation page.
LOL! |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Whiteboy - 2014-03-19 3:31 PM
barrelracr131 - 2014-03-19 3:27 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-19 3:22 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 3:04 PM caboy61 - 2014-03-19 12:52 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale. Go I am. Just as soon as I raise the funds on my donation page. I heard gofundme.com doesn't ask questions...
Side note I heard the site takes a cut of the donations |
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10D Crack Champion
| I think the big key to your original question is....."and still make a profit"..... I think that is yet to be seen now with something like the American. I am thinking there will be more events of that nature, but not quite on that big of a money scale. Also with profits we would have to consider a person's sponsors & what is able to be made there. I have no idea the actual cost of getting up and down the road, fees, vet bills, etc. That has got to be a huge expense. I am thinking about rodeo horses only...and barrel horses for just divisional barrel races.
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-19 3:47 PM
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| barrelracr131 - 2014-03-19 3:42 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-19 3:31 PM barrelracr131 - 2014-03-19 3:27 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-19 3:22 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 3:04 PM caboy61 - 2014-03-19 12:52 PM NonaY - 2014-03-19 2:21 PM For that amount of money, I think I would rather go to a Keeneland sale. Go I am. Just as soon as I raise the funds on my donation page. I heard gofundme.com doesn't ask questions... Side note I heard the site takes a cut of the donations
So if they dont ask questions, I could raise money for anything right?...Bad habits here I come! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| The profit is made on breeding. If one could get so lucky and get the next Frenchmans Guy or Dash Ta Fame, Firewater Flit, Dr Nick Bar, etc sire, then get one of the best trainers to train that horse, such as Dena Kirkpatrick, Bo Hill, etc who then sold the horse for a lot of money to a Pro Barrel Racer who wins the world, ex Mary Walker, Lindsey Sears (these two are most known for the one horse success).
Dena said last year when I was attending a clinic of hers that a top 1d horse with pro potential sells for about 320k
The other way to make a profit is to be so lucky to train that tough 1d futurity champion pro potential horse and sell it for 320k
There is no profit in pro rodeo by the time you calculate all the expenses, depreciating value of truck and trailer, vet bills etc. These people who do it get by with selling horses, sponsorship, clinics, endorsing product, etc.
I would say there is a profit in the futurity and derbies |
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 Expert
Posts: 1409
| IMO....People that spend over 100k on a barrel horse are not worried about making a profit.... it is strictly to be number 1 at the end of the year and have fun doing what they love.
Same as people who spend 100k on cars, boats, and other toys...........those things have no return.
I also think it is interesting to hear prices even if the name is not posted.
I would really like to see someone's expense report.......that would be interesting as well.
I just can't imagine that a person that originally started out with NO help from a parent, spouse, family member, or sugar daddy..... I mean NO help buying a truck, trailer or even feed would ever be able to be a world champion. Maybe... Unless they had went to college and had a great career first or an entrepreneur, but there again who helped them with college or starting the business??
Edited by TyE 2014-03-19 4:27 PM
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | well in all honesty it isn't a business transaction. After expenses, few barrel racers ( prof or not) make a profit at the end of the year. So its no different than someone buying a million dollar yacht. Silly to some, but loads of fun to others. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-03-19 12:20 PM I think at the end of the day the best answer to your question is going to be the one that has been given for years and years. A horse is worth what someone is willing to sell it for and what the next person is willing to pay for it.
Ditto to this^^^^^ |
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10D Crack Champion
| cheryl makofka - 2014-03-19 4:21 PM
The profit is made on breeding. If one could get so lucky and get the next Frenchmans Guy or Dash Ta Fame, Firewater Flit, Dr Nick Bar, etc sire, then get one of the best trainers to train that horse, such as Dena Kirkpatrick, Bo Hill, etc who then sold the horse for a lot of money to a Pro Barrel Racer who wins the world, ex Mary Walker, Lindsey Sears (these two are most known for the one horse success).
Dena said last year when I was attending a clinic of hers that a top 1d horse with pro potential sells for about 320k
The other way to make a profit is to be so lucky to train that tough 1d futurity champion pro potential horse and sell it for 320k
There is no profit in pro rodeo by the time you calculate all the expenses, depreciating value of truck and trailer, vet bills etc. These people who do it get by with selling horses, sponsorship, clinics, endorsing product, etc.
I would say there is a profit in the futurity and derbies
I can't imagine paying 320K for anything, but I am poor. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | linds - 2014-03-19 3:10 PM
savannahann03 - 2014-03-19 2:05 PM Ms Perky Bug sold for $465,000 in Brazil last year.
$465k Brazilian = $356k American dollars.
Was he sold as a Stud to go to produce? Or a gelding that will be rodeoing? |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | Swannranch - 2014-03-19 6:48 PM linds - 2014-03-19 3:10 PM savannahann03 - 2014-03-19 2:05 PM Ms Perky Bug sold for $465,000 in Brazil last year. $465k Brazilian = $356k American dollars. Was he sold as a Stud to go to produce? Or a gelding that will be rodeoing?
| MS PERKY BUG | QH | BLACK | MARE | 03/22/2004 | |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | Thanks for the replys. Was the Perky Bug mare sold to compete on or to add to a breding program? Any one know? I have an added question..I have always read and heard that sponsors dont pay that much...mostly its product. Is that still true? I still just dont see a top horse selling here for over $500K but maybe Im wrong. I agree with wns...a special horse can make you a name that can go on to help you with other related income. I cant do it but I can see someone paying $100K to $250-$300K but I guess there must be a lot more money out there than I think...wish some more would float my way... :) |
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| REALISTIC PRICE- I think it's OBVIOUS that the horse business has gotten as far away from REALISTIC as a Quentin Tarantino movie! Gambling turns even the most beautiful people ugly. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 368
Location: run2win land | As a real estate appraiser I am always amazed that it is such a secret what people paid for a horse especially and good one. How is anyone supposed to know what their horse is worth if the comparables are not known? Seems like if the barrel horse industry is going to mainstream then we all need to know what a 1D, 2D etc horse of a certain age in an area is worth. It would help balance the whole industry I feel. It has nothing to do with class and everything to do with business. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | I don't actually agree with letting everyone know what these horses are selling for… and this is why… I've sold some fairly high dollar horses and to me, if the buyer wants to disclose that information then that is their prerogative. The problem with disclosure is when people know what you paid, and then you try to make a profit, they don't want to let you. They are like "she only gave $20k for that horse, I'm not paying her $30k for it. I bought a 10 yr old gelding, paid $30k for him, (there is a good comparison for you, lol)… I've had him a year this month. Finished 3rd at the D&G in Waco 2 Sunday's ago. Set an arena record on our 4th run out, and placed at just about everywhere we went. He got hurt (almost a career ending injury) and D&G was our 4th time out after almost 9 months off.
If you had asked me ten years ago if I would spend $30k on a horse I would have told you that you are CRAZY! But things change… I sold my DTF mare right before I bought this gelding, for a significant amount more than that, so it wasn't so hard spending the $30k. I won't disclose what I sold her for, that would be something that the buyer would have to do, I don't feel it is my place to disclose that information.
Let me add that I think $20k is A LOT of money for a horse… Heck! $5000 is a lot of money too! But it's all relative. I can tell you that I have had some crazy offers made on my horses. I have a FG gelding that just turned 5. It is off the wall what people will pay to win. And those wins aren't even guaranteed. There are so many different factors involved. But if you need a write off, I guess you could use barrel racing, and I am quite sure many folks do, lol.
Oh and Dry Doc sold to the King Ranch for $1.8 million dollars. My step-dad owned him until they (Helen Groves) bought him. That is the only "high dollar" horse I know for sure about, lol. Those were the days my friends… caviar at the horse sale, lol. Don't think we'll see that kind of stuff again anytime soon!
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | swd - 2014-03-19 11:16 PM As a real estate appraiser I am always amazed that it is such a secret what people paid for a horse especially and good one. How is anyone supposed to know what their horse is worth if the comparables are not known? Seems like if the barrel horse industry is going to mainstream then we all need to know what a 1D, 2D etc horse of a certain age in an area is worth. It would help balance the whole industry I feel. It has nothing to do with class and everything to do with business.
Exactly!! |
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Blessed
Location: Here | grinandbareit - 2014-03-20 12:13 AM I don't actually agree with letting everyone know what these horses are selling for… and this is why… I've sold some fairly high dollar horses and to me, if the buyer wants to disclose that information then that is their prerogative. The problem with disclosure is when people know what you paid, and then you try to make a profit, they don't want to let you. They are like "she only gave $20k for that horse, I'm not paying her $30k for it. I bought a 10 yr old gelding, paid $30k for him, (there is a good comparison for you, lol)… I've had him a year this month. Finished 3rd at the D&G in Waco 2 Sunday's ago. Set an arena record on our 4th run out, and placed at just about everywhere we went. He got hurt (almost a career ending injury) and D&G was our 4th time out after almost 9 months off. If you had asked me ten years ago if I would spend $30k on a horse I would have told you that you are CRAZY! But things change… I sold my DTF mare right before I bought this gelding, for a significant amount more than that, so it wasn't so hard spending the $30k. I won't disclose what I sold her for, that would be something that the buyer would have to do, I don't feel it is my place to disclose that information. Let me add that I think $20k is A LOT of money for a horse… Heck! $5000 is a lot of money too! But it's all relative. I can tell you that I have had some crazy offers made on my horses. I have a FG gelding that just turned 5. It is off the wall what people will pay to win. And those wins aren't even guaranteed. There are so many different factors involved. But if you need a write off, I guess you could use barrel racing, and I am quite sure many folks do, lol. Oh and Dry Doc sold to the King Ranch for $1.8 million dollars. My step-dad owned him until they (Helen Groves) bought him. That is the only "high dollar" horse I know for sure about, lol. Those were the days my friends… caviar at the horse sale, lol. Don't think we'll see that kind of stuff again anytime soon!
Great insight! I agree. horse prices are not like real estate prices. too many varibles. I agree. prices for the most part should be private u less buyer wants to disclose the correct amount. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | I think a lot of this has to do with "how much fulfilling your dreams" is worth to you. I don't think these high high dollar horses are bought to make an actual profit on. It's more to have a better chance to "make it to the NFR" or become "rookie of the year", etc. If they pay their own way, diesle, vet bills then you are doing good. If they pay your wages as well then your are doing great! However, those that buy a 6 figure horse usually do not have to rely on him paying the wages....
And yes, most sponsors pay in products and not money. |
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| swd - 2014-03-19 11:16 PM
As a real estate appraiser I am always amazed that it is such a secret what people paid for a horse especially and good one. How is anyone supposed to know what their horse is worth if the comparables are not known? Seems like if the barrel horse industry is going to mainstream then we all need to know what a 1D, 2D etc horse of a certain age in an area is worth. It would help balance the whole industry I feel. It has nothing to do with class and everything to do with business.
But, it is nobody's business what I pay for a horse. Home sales are public knowledge only because the mortgages and title transfers are recorded with the county recorder. If not for that, we wouldn't know what homes sell for. |
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Regular
Posts: 91
| Purchase prices are not listed on deeds in all states (disclosure states vs. non disclosure states). Even in disclosure states there are ways around having to list the price on the deed. If people want to keep things private that is fine, and totally their right to do so. I just hope those aren't the same people complaining about other people asking too much money for what they are selling (houses, horses, etc.), as that is a little hypocritical due to a resulting lack of good sales data with which to formulate a reasonable asking price. |
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | Lots of people are willing to pay big money to win a few buckles at the local playdays etc...so someone is always willing to pay just to win a little. Not many make money over what they spend, You do have those who breed and breed and breed to make money, but just barrel racing alone will not make anyone enough money to survive it is just a hobby for the majority! |
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Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | SG. - 2014-03-20 7:20 AM grinandbareit - 2014-03-20 12:13 AM I don't actually agree with letting everyone know what these horses are selling for… and this is why… I've sold some fairly high dollar horses and to me, if the buyer wants to disclose that information then that is their prerogative. The problem with disclosure is when people know what you paid, and then you try to make a profit, they don't want to let you. They are like "she only gave $20k for that horse, I'm not paying her $30k for it. I bought a 10 yr old gelding, paid $30k for him, (there is a good comparison for you, lol)… I've had him a year this month. Finished 3rd at the D&G in Waco 2 Sunday's ago. Set an arena record on our 4th run out, and placed at just about everywhere we went. He got hurt (almost a career ending injury) and D&G was our 4th time out after almost 9 months off. If you had asked me ten years ago if I would spend $30k on a horse I would have told you that you are CRAZY! But things change… I sold my DTF mare right before I bought this gelding, for a significant amount more than that, so it wasn't so hard spending the $30k. I won't disclose what I sold her for, that would be something that the buyer would have to do, I don't feel it is my place to disclose that information. Let me add that I think $20k is A LOT of money for a horse… Heck! $5000 is a lot of money too! But it's all relative. I can tell you that I have had some crazy offers made on my horses. I have a FG gelding that just turned 5. It is off the wall what people will pay to win. And those wins aren't even guaranteed. There are so many different factors involved. But if you need a write off, I guess you could use barrel racing, and I am quite sure many folks do, lol. Oh and Dry Doc sold to the King Ranch for $1.8 million dollars. My step-dad owned him until they (Helen Groves) bought him. That is the only "high dollar" horse I know for sure about, lol. Those were the days my friends… caviar at the horse sale, lol. Don't think we'll see that kind of stuff again anytime soon! Great insight! I agree. horse prices are not like real estate prices. too many varibles. I agree. prices for the most part should be private u less buyer wants to disclose the correct amount.
Yes. I think you are absolutely right. Interesting about Dry Doc. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | But Dry Doc was not sold to compete on. I'm talking about Rodeo competition Geldings and mares. Not stallions, that's a different conversation.
I also think the secrecy is silly. I realize it's not realestate, but it's a business and a pretty public business. Many people want the fame and coverage and probably the money that other Professional sports command, but everything is a secrete...not trade secrets just OMG, don't tell what it cost, don't discuss what may be wrong with a horse, don't hurt anyones feelings.
I'm not sure if thats true in Roping and Rough Stock, but I know it's true in Barrel Racing and I don't get it.
My assumption is that there is way more money available than I can imagine. . .WAY.
I personally know of several in the $100K +/- that are great, but I know horses for half that that can compete and win against or place with and against them. I guess it's a lot to do with the fame. I know we discussed wiht the fame/name comes other financial opportunities but I think very few VERY VERY few can go on to make that money back even with other business opportunities that may come from that. I look at and think of the competitors I purchase products from, or go to clinics and few of them were one horse wonders. Most developed a name on several or many horses and that's more of what I woulf follow.
I've enjoyed this conversation though and love no fighting  |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Swannranch - 2014-03-20 1:02 PM But Dry Doc was not sold to compete on. I'm talking about Rodeo competition Geldings and mares. Not stallions, that's a different conversation.
I also think the secrecy is silly. I realize it's not realestate, but it's a business and a pretty public business. Many people want the fame and coverage and probably the money that other Professional sports command, but everything is a secrete...not trade secrets just OMG, don't tell what it cost, don't discuss what may be wrong with a horse, don't hurt anyones feelings.
I'm not sure if thats true in Roping and Rough Stock, but I know it's true in Barrel Racing and I don't get it.
My assumption is that there is way more money available than I can imagine. . .WAY.
I personally know of several in the $100K +/- that are great, but I know horses for half that that can compete and win against or place with and against them. I guess it's a lot to do with the fame. I know we discussed wiht the fame/name comes other financial opportunities but I think very few VERY VERY few can go on to make that money back even with other business opportunities that may come from that. I look at and think of the competitors I purchase products from, or go to clinics and few of them were one horse wonders. Most developed a name on several or many horses and that's more of what I woulf follow.
I've enjoyed this conversation though and love no fighting
I know rope horses are secret, at least around here. unless you have a roper wanting to buy your horse, he tells how much he can sell him for "in the right hands" :) The rough stock, I remember Nevada Berger telling me he had a $100K + offer for Little Yellow Jacket(I do not remember exact number-it was 15 plus years ago), he was proud as a peacock to turn that $ down-I thought he was nuts-jeez he was just a bull! boy have times changed! |
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 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | I think the premise of this thread is inherently flawed. "Realistic" prices for top barrel horses and what someone *might* be willing to pay are IMO, 2 different things.
A horse is worth whatever someone will pay for it. I have seen top 1D horses around here sell for 45-90 K, but they didn't belong to someone famous, or run at the NFR. I think if the horse has ran at the NFR, you can get more for it. JMO |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| My mare had some pretty runs at some of the bigger shows had someone follow me back to my stall and offer me a fairly nice amount and i know they had money i just didnot want to sell as i had 5k in my mare as i bought her as a 3yo sight unseem i broke my arm really bad and had a friend finishing breaking her had people interested in her i had even paid her up into fort smith she got a upper resp. infection ended her furtituty career i brought her home went easy with her the next year she screamed. She was easy to ride she feel in a indoor as i could not,see how bad the ground was u til i sent her she got around the first fell down at the second i let her lope to the third held her on the third and let her lope out was second in third d. She tore her stifle up in several different ways. I turned her out for 8 months and carried her to about the best lamness vet on east coast and he told me exactly what was wrong with her and also told me she was not as lame as she should be for what was wrong with her and to,put her on a good joint supplement and he sold actiflex and with in a week she really was nkt lame i long troted her for,a month carried her back and he injected her and i showed he in state final only in senior ground was bad she slipped and i just quit riding cause i did not want to cause her harm. That spring i should have injected her and sent her to swim, but i love her and for 12 years she earned checks way more times than not about 70%. She earned her retirement and my husband was sick and housebound. I bred her have a carbon copy of her that is a year old. Will breed her back this year. I would not take 40k for her today. I could inject her now and send her to,swim for 6 weeks and i know she would go back to winming but she is 18 she has earned her retirment enough is enough. |
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Realistic Prices of Top Tier Barrel horses