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 Veteran
Posts: 134
 
| I love my Gelding's pattern.. Very correct and he will NOT over run a barrel. However, he seems to always be at 3/4 speed. When i am riding, it feels very fast but when i watch the videos, everyone always askes the same thing "Why is he loping? Why don't you push him?" He is running about 1.5/1.7 off with no effort and I know he can do more. Any advice on getting him to run? I stay up into the pockets, I don't drop a rein until his nose is in the pocket, i wear spurs and kick.....A LOT! Help with Lazy??
Edited by htaucher1 2014-03-19 3:30 PM
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| True Story: One day a bunch of us ropers were at the arena working on some young horses. This old guy comes every now and then to give us some pointers, lol. That days lesson was on horses that didn't know how to run. His advise: Rope a deer. Why you might ask: When you rope a deer, once the deer hits the end of the rope, it will come straight back up the rope. He claimed the laziest and slowest of horses could win the all american with a deer tied to the saddle horn. So... of corse we had to try this, I was there as a spectator only. Just as promised, lazy horses are only lazy when they lack motivation. Turns out that type of motivation will ruin a rope horse for life. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | Sometimes you just can't make them do it if they don't want. I have posted many times on similar threads about a mare I had that was like this. Awesome pattern, would never run by a barrel, bred to run and I could barely get her out of the 3D no matter what I did. I know she could run because she was the fastest one in the pasture when the horses would run around, but that was on her own time. I think I hit the 2D a handful of times and finally gave up. Traded her to a lady that is getting some nice foals from her. I really believe she was put on this earth to make nice babies. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| Just like people, some are faster than others. You could run a blood panel to make sure they are not deficient somewhere leading to their being lethargic. After that though, if they don't have a natural want to run, they just don't. Either be happy with the horse you have or find a new one. He may someday figure out that he wants to go faster on his own, but if slight encouragement doesn't get them to want to go (smooching, a few kicks, one or two swats with the whip) then they just aren't track stars. |
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 Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
Location: So. Cali. | Best thing I ever did for my 'running in slow motion' 3d/4d gelding was get blood work done. He had an underactive thyroid and was borderline anemic. Once the thyroid was managed and Red Cell added to his diet, he moved up to 2D/ bottom of the 1D depending on competition.
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | htaucher1 - 2014-03-19 3:26 PM i wear spurs and kick.....A LOT!
This could be the problem.
Are you actually KICKING your horse in the belly with your metal spurs? If that is the case, I wouldn't run any faster either, if I were your horse.
Now, every horse is different but why don't you try simply squeezing (or bumping lightly) with your calves instead? Some horses actually respond better to that.
As others have said, you can run a blood panel to see if anything is off there.
You can also add a supplement like Finish Line Ultra Fire to see if it will give him some pep in his step.
Or he may be already going as fast as he wants to go. Or maybe sometday the light bulb will come on.
The best my old horse ever ran was the top of the 2D (locally). All of a sudden when he was 10, he started winning the 1D (locally). He just all of a sudden found another gear. Took him that long to figure it out. |
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 Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377
Location: NC | Some people might flame me but I had a horse that would barel lope till a began racing her against my friends horses. I don't think she knew how to run and the competition helped her to push herself. She got where she would out run all my friends horses and horses on trail rides. No one could believe her. Now I will be honest she never really used that speed n the arena but maybe your guy will be different hahaha. And if you don't feel comfortable trying some little mock races, maybe just try breezing him in an open field. |
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| The bumper spurs were a recent add and are probably being deleted soon. I have not found they make any difference. I will have the blood work done for sure. I did have him flying in a "down and back" type race. He was a different horse. That is why I think it just needs to be the way I ask. Thank you! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 836
Location: Southern Pennsylvania | htaucher1 - 2014-03-19 8:04 PM
The bumper spurs were a recent add and are probably being deleted soon. I have not found they make any difference. I will have the blood work done for sure. I did have him flying in a "down and back" type race. He was a different horse. That is why I think it just needs to be the way I ask. Thank you!
If breezing helped (down and back race), you should incorporate that into your program(weekly). You could try always smooching or lightly bumping with you calves every time you ask for another gear. Then, he will associate that cue and understand it in the arena. Good Luck. I also have a lazy horse. Experimenting with feed and supplements helps too. Also, I noticed that I'm not a rider who asks for a lot "fast" work during training.
BTW: I'm not a trainer or qualified to give out advice, but these are things that personally helped. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2041
Location: home for the winter...what a dumb idea | I had a gelding that was like that kinda....never more then 3D at big races.....but that horse was born for the track. I will never for get the night I entered him in a down and back race but with 5 other horses in the arena....he had no idea what we were doing until the gun went off he was left behind by 4 length... but by the time we truned the end barrel he was not going to be beat by any other horse......we won by 4 seconds and were waiting at the gate when the other horses got there.......some horses just need the competition of others running besides them..... |
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 Ms. Marine
Posts: 4641
Location: Texas | The whole, 'I wear spurs and kick... A LOT!' thing may be part of your problem. Spurs are NOT meant for getting speed out of a horse and I have yet to see someone who kicks their horse with their spurs get any horse to actually run. It's always been just the opposite - the horse shuts down.
My advice to you: Lose the spurs. If you don't know how to use them correctly, don't use them at all. Take your horse out into a nice big open field or a track and breeze him. Smooch to him and make sure that you're body language is really encouraging him to open up and run. Make sure you get in sync with your horse.
ETA: When you're kicking your horse, don't be crazy about it. It's always been a pet peeve of mine watching barrel racers trying to kick the air out of their horses. I believe when you're kicking your horse, your feet should never extend more than a foot away from their sides.
Edited by BarrelRacing4Christ 2014-03-19 9:31 PM
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Rodeo_cowgirl - 2014-03-19 8:25 PM I had a gelding that was like that kinda....never more then 3D at big races.....but that horse was born for the track. I will never for get the night I entered him in a down and back race but with 5 other horses in the arena....he had no idea what we were doing until the gun went off he was left behind by 4 length... but by the time we truned the end barrel he was not going to be beat by any other horse......we won by 4 seconds and were waiting at the gate when the other horses got there.......some horses just need the competition of others running besides them..... That sounds so much like my mare. I haven't ever had her in a down and back race, but when my friend and I are on a trail ride and we are loping together, my mare wants to be FIRST! But as of yet we are very slow in the barrel pen. I'm hoping some more training (by a professional) will maybe help get things to "click" as she isn't finished quite yet (we are getting there). But I also am pretty sure she will finish out probably as a 3D horse, but you never know.
Edited by mtcanchazer 2014-03-19 9:42 PM
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | yep the two things I thought of were-
take the spurs off, and get his blood checked.
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| I will openly admit it appears i was given incorrect direction on the use of spurs! They never helped. This is the first horse i have ever used them on so i am thrilled to take them off. I was told i needed them to "get after him". Once the weather here in Michigan allows me to breeze, it will be on my training schedule. I dont have anybody to "race" at my barn but i will do my best! |
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 Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | Maybe it could the rider tensing up and not being fluid as you are at home where there is no pressure |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| One of mine CAN run, I've seen him do it, a lot, in his pasture without a rider. My trainer says he won't run the barrels because I took too long to trust him on the pattern. I understand part of that, but I've shown the horse that I DO want to run now and he doesn't seem inclined. I've tried whip, spurs, nothing, kicking a little, kicking a lot, nothing has given him the 'ah ha' moment that mom wants to RUN now! He's not a lazy horse, loves to work at home, gets a little on the muscled headed into the alley, thinks the world of himself when a run is done. Maybe the trainer is right and I waited too long to trust that he'd turn the first for me at a run. |
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Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | lonely va barrelxr - 2014-03-20 10:06 AM One of mine CAN run, I've seen him do it, a lot, in his pasture without a rider. My trainer says he won't run the barrels because I took too long to trust him on the pattern. I understand part of that, but I've shown the horse that I DO want to run now and he doesn't seem inclined. I've tried whip, spurs, nothing, kicking a little, kicking a lot, nothing has given him the 'ah ha' moment that mom wants to RUN now! He's not a lazy horse, loves to work at home, gets a little on the muscled headed into the alley, thinks the world of himself when a run is done. Maybe the trainer is right and I waited too long to trust that he'd turn the first for me at a run.
I have the same problem, my horse gets so worked up going into the alley you would think he should go barreling in there but he doesn't. I think a lot is me not relaxing, and we are at home I don't have a very big place for a pattern so when we do practice it's not at top speed. I need to take him back to the track and breeze him and when I want him to run smooch him and so hopefully when I want him to run at a barrel race if I will just smooch him he will pick up a gear. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Whiteboy - 2014-03-19 3:37 PM
True Story: One day a bunch of us ropers were at the arena working on some young horses. This old guy comes every now and then to give us some pointers, lol. That days lesson was on horses that didn't know how to run. His advise: Rope a deer. Why you might ask: When you rope a deer, once the deer hits the end of the rope, it will come straight back up the rope. He claimed the laziest and slowest of horses could win the all american with a deer tied to the saddle horn. So... of corse we had to try this, I was there as a spectator only. Just as promised, lazy horses are only lazy when they lack motivation. Turns out that type of motivation will ruin a rope horse for life.
We did that(not with deer) to a couple of our young, lazy, pay no attention, colts. Tied them off to a 400lb calf and let them have at it. By the time that calf was done with them the were more than willing to face and keep the dang rope tight. |
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 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | Could you post a video? Could be over kicking. Could be sore hocks. Easier to tell with video. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | I am a firm believer that if we spend forever trying to perfect the pattern at a slow lope, they begin to believe that they CAN'T run a pattern. Slow work is great, but we must be careful how slow and for how long. |
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| Can't load a video. Too big. I will try to load it it youtube later
Edited by htaucher1 2014-03-21 9:23 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 1273
Location: South Dakota | WrapSnap - 2014-03-20 10:32 PM I am a firm believer that if we spend forever trying to perfect the pattern at a slow lope, they begin to believe that they CAN'T run a pattern. Slow work is great, but we must be careful how slow and for how long.
I agree and I think it can happen to the rider too. I rode my horse slow and easy always wanting the perfect turns. Even when we increased our speed and I thought, wow, we are really moving, we weren't, according to the clock anyway. I decided he just didn't have the speed and let my daughter start running him. He started running faster with her and now with me too. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | WrapSnap - 2014-03-20 8:32 PM I am a firm believer that if we spend forever trying to perfect the pattern at a slow lope, they begin to believe that they CAN'T run a pattern. Slow work is great, but we must be careful how slow and for how long.
 Agree... Many times it is a simple case they just do not understand that they can go fast. Please be sure to check the pasture out for holes or dibbits before you go breeze them. :) |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Whiteboy - 2014-03-19 3:37 PM True Story: One day a bunch of us ropers were at the arena working on some young horses. This old guy comes every now and then to give us some pointers, lol. That days lesson was on horses that didn't know how to run. His advise: Rope a deer. Why you might ask: When you rope a deer, once the deer hits the end of the rope, it will come straight back up the rope. He claimed the laziest and slowest of horses could win the all american with a deer tied to the saddle horn. So... of corse we had to try this, I was there as a spectator only. Just as promised, lazy horses are only lazy when they lack motivation. Turns out that type of motivation will ruin a rope horse for life.
LMAO!!!!!!! |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta |
I agree with Andy....
Some horses we need to encourage more then really try to make do something, I dont see it posted how old the OP's horse is? With young horses it also makes a difference with our ability to judge how much we help or not when increasing speed, as that can affect their confidence... |
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 The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | WrapSnap - 2014-03-20 9:32 PM
I am a firm believer that if we spend forever trying to perfect the pattern at a slow lope, they begin to believe that they CAN'T run a pattern. Slow work is great, but we must be careful how slow and for how long.
Good point. I believe this is the problem I'm having with my new mare. I think I've been training her slow for so long now that she has no idea that she "needs" to go fast. Good grief!! LOL |
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| Here is the video. Took forever to set this thing up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=eOKZyCvvue0 |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | LIVE2RUN - 2014-03-21 12:28 PM
WrapSnap - 2014-03-20 9:32 PM
I am a firm believer that if we spend forever trying to perfect the pattern at a slow lope, they begin to believe that they CAN'T run a pattern. Slow work is great, but we must be careful how slow and for how long.
Good point. I believe this is the problem I'm having with my new mare. I think I've been training her slow for so long now that she has no idea that she "needs" to go fast. Good grief!! LOL
happened with my paint, if I even thought about slow loping him on a pattern I wouldn't ever get him to run it. It was either trot it, or haul butt. |
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![](<a href="http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/alicat0909/?action=view¤t=yellaandcalf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1191.photobu) Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | He looks a little sore in that hind end. He didnt really want to stretch out and kinda stayed under himself when running and hopped around the barrels in the back end and it sounded like he was grunting but only did it when you'd come out. Pushing on those back legs.
Around your barrels he isnt driving that hip under neath himself either, he is pulling with his front end.
Edited by Alicat0909 2014-03-27 11:24 PM
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | After watching the video...My first question would be... How long has it been since this horse was run on a larger set, outside? |
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| The last big pattern I ran was in Aug/Sept. I don't have a place to run him. I think I need to find one. Maybe a slight incline to get him to push himself, not pull. I have had extensive X-rays, vet work done and his joints are great. He never ever declines to work so I am very careful of him. He would run for me on three legs so I think I worry to much about him being sore (though he's not) and don't really ask. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| htaucher1 - 2014-03-28 10:18 AM
The last big pattern I ran was in Aug/Sept. I don't have a place to run him. I think I need to find one. Maybe a slight incline to get him to push himself, not pull. I have had extensive X-rays, vet work done and his joints are great. He never ever declines to work so I am very careful of him. He would run for me on three legs so I think I worry to much about him being sore (though he's not) and don't really ask.
Doesnt look like your are asking for speed. From the first to second barrel I think I see you kick 2-3 times. The horse seems like he needs that push constantly. Try kicking or pushing him up to every barrel. I would try that a few times. Also over exaggerate your body cues. When running home.... Put your hand up as far as you can go on his neck and lean your body forward. |
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Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
Location: So. Cali. | Ever get the bloodwork done?
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| Getting the bloodwork done shortly. Doing it as soon as I can get my vet out to do teeth, too. Thinking he may need some energy. He is the sweetest easiest horse I have ever owned so I really appreciate all the input. He will go to my daughter when she is ready to step up to a horse because I would trust him with anyone! |
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Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| WrapSnap - 2014-03-27 11:34 PM After watching the video...My first question would be... How long has it been since this horse was run on a larger set, outside?
Ditto to this! I was gong to post a video of my lazy loper Zan, but the video I have available is at Herndon, which is a larger pattern for indoors patterns, and Zan is moving out between the barrels there because there is room, so it's not a fair comparison.
Get your horse to a larger pattern and work on striding out between the barrels. That pattern is so small that a larger strided horse doesn't have room for more than one full stride between that isn't taking off or rating down! |
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Getting the Lazy to RUN