|
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
 
| I love when people put up their vids for people to see and then to read the great input from the many varied backgrounds on here. So, I'd love CONSTRUCTIVE input on our runs. She's 9 and broke. Reining/cowhorse mostly over her life, but decided that we would try our hand at barrels this year. I haven't run consistently in several years, have had a baby, and have picked up some bad habits. She's truly only been working at this since the end of Dec. 99% of any issues, I know, are mine, so WHERE are my faults? (ps, you're better off without sound, really.)
Listed in order of runs, Jan through this past weekend:
http://youtu.be/2Cdm1TxVv_w
This one, she decided to run for the first time in her life and needless to say, I wasn't expecting it. The 2nd came up a lot quicker than I was anticipating. You may even see the look of shock on my face as I watch it go by.
http://youtu.be/c9G_XUs-6VY
http://youtu.be/zL3yWKel87c
http://youtu.be/_BYJNf4nWjs ... no, she did not have all 4 feet on the ground after the 2nd.
http://youtu.be/c-ZJuOn5LZM
We seem to struggle most with our 2nd. Or I do. I'm trying to be more conscious of setting her up for it, and riding right, but I suppose I'm failing.
Help? Tips? |
|
| |
|
 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
 
Location: North Dakota | She is a very nice mare! I think you have done very good with her, personnally I don't see too much that you as a rider could improve, except your approach to the second. Right now it seems very inconsistant. I think I would work to the left, get some cones/tires/small children (just kidding) and place them even distance around the second and lope consistant smooth circles around until you have a great idea of where you're most comfortable approach is. Also a lot of the second barrel seems to feed directly from the departure of the first. i think she has a lot of rate but not a lot of collection, yes they need to know how to slow down at their rate point but they also need to collect their body up and use it like a rubber band to get themselves smoothly around the barrel. Whatever you are doing on the 3rd barrel is working! Good work! |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| I agree with the above post. Lots of circles but while you do that I would transition from a faster speed to a slower speed. For example: Fast lope about 30 feet around the barrel, wait till she is comfortable and relaxed and then ask for a pocket and slow it down to a slower lope, circle the barrel. When you come out of that barrel ask for more speed and go back into the 30 ft range. This will help you and her on transitions and cues without either of you guys getting mad at each other. The only other thing that might need improvement would be your hands. When you turn right on the first keep your right elbow close to your body (ya might have to poke your ribs with your elbow till it becomes a habit). Pulling your hand straight out makes a horse go flat and raise their head because they are coming out of collection. make sense? |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| Thank you both. I can def see that we are losing collection. I get what you are saying about my hand. Now to just remind myself to actually do it.
More circles, story of my riding life. We can do circles, I'll try to work on it this weekend if I can get my sick self and baby outside for a while.
Thank you for the input. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I agree with LMS, your horse is not rating and shaping for the turns.
What I like to do with my horses is at a walk when I do barrel work, I rate when their nose gets to the barrel, I stop let them relax, them ask for shape, then ask them for a walk around the barrel. I do this for all three.
When I speed up to a trot, I will first will trot up to the rate point then slow them down and get their shape at the rate point and have them walk around the turn. Once they can handle this, then I will extend my trot into the barrel, at the rate point I will collect/shorten their stride and shape them then turn then extend the stride again.
When I get to a lope I will break down to a trot around the barrel, then hand gallop into the barrel and shorten their stride around the barrel.
During a few of the runs I notice you are not looking at the pocket.
When I go to an arena I will look for a point about 3-4 feet up from the barrel, and this will be where I look when I am turning the barrel prior. This will help with the drifting out as well.
The other thing I noticed on a few of the runs, is half way to second your inside hip drops, this causes your horses shoulder to drop. I try and stay square in the saddle at all times. |
|
| |
|
  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | You have done a wonderful job with this mare. I really do like her. You are riding sitting flat of your butt is what I see along with what everyone else has said. When she got high leaving the second barrel you butt hit the back of the cantle and this will cause one to climb when they leave a barrel. You just need to roll your pelvis forward and really pull hard on the saddle horn when you leave your barrels. Over all you are doing a really good job. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| Thank you everyone for your advice. I really tried to put it to practice when riding. I have a HORRIBLE habit of a chair seat, which is exacerbated by the saddle that I have been using, a 17" Billy Cook cutting saddle. It is what fit my mare. In the last vid I had a Charmayne James on her, but I'm not sure that fits her right. I'm playing with different saddles right now to find the right fit for her and myself both.
That said, I really put some thought into the 2nd barrel yesterday and realized that YES, the approach is the problem. If we are loping large circles to the left, or approach from the left, like running L,R,R, she is smooth and perfect, but coming straight in, from the first barrel, she struggles with the transition. I have tried to be diligent about setting her up for it, getting her arced, rating etc, but it is not the same as coming at it already rounded left. She has no problems with the 3rd, but then she is still holding that bend from the 2nd.
I've been doing slow work for myself, trying to get my muscle memory back to "get your butt out of the saddle" and "lift with your inside hand, don't pull."
Barrel race this weekend. Trying to get a couple of days of practice in before then. Thanks for the input. Keep the thoughts coming. |
|
| |
|
Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I know one of my biggest mistakes on my horse, is getting a really snappy first barrel and letting the horse drift to the right heading to the second. My horse doesn't hestiate or blow the barrel he will tip it every time (he "cows" a barrel) anyway, one of the last runs I made on him I rode him straight at the second, thus not allowing the wide swoop and had one of the nicest runs all summer. Sometimes straighter is faster. Good luck, wish mine was ready to go, I am! |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| SpottedT - 2014-03-25 8:01 AM
Thank you everyone for your advice. I really tried to put it to practice when riding. I have a HORRIBLE habit of a chair seat, which is exacerbated by the saddle that I have been using, a 17" Billy Cook cutting saddle. It is what fit my mare. In the last vid I had a Charmayne James on her, but I'm not sure that fits her right. I'm playing with different saddles right now to find the right fit for her and myself both.
That said, I really put some thought into the 2nd barrel yesterday and realized that YES, the approach is the problem. If we are loping large circles to the left, or approach from the left, like running L,R,R, she is smooth and perfect, but coming straight in, from the first barrel, she struggles with the transition. I have tried to be diligent about setting her up for it, getting her arced, rating etc, but it is not the same as coming at it already rounded left. She has no problems with the 3rd, but then she is still holding that bend from the 2nd.
I've been doing slow work for myself, trying to get my muscle memory back to "get your butt out of the saddle" and "lift with your inside hand, don't pull."
Barrel race this weekend. Trying to get a couple of days of practice in before then. Thanks for the input. Keep the thoughts coming.
I personally don't like my horses to hold the bend from 2-3 as they loose time. The only horse I seen successful in running this way was Martha.
I would try to straighten her up then rate her for third.
As someone also said, I think your pocket is too big, your horse has to take 2 extra strides to turn, and extra strides cost time. |
|
| |
|
 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
Location: LA Lower Alabama | Most of this is "baby" stuff. Sometimes she almost re wraps the first causing a different approach to your second. You are heading the right direction so don't give up. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| I'm so excited! Our run today was fabulous! 290 entries. We were 141. I worked really hard on having a smooth first and leaving it straight so I could set her up for the 2nd. And well, fast time was a 15.000 and I just wanted to be a low 18. When I left I was leading the 4D with a 17.02! I couldn't have been happier with my horse or my run if I'd have won the whole dang thing! I really tried to ride right and she really tried to do what I asked. So this is like her 7th run or something like that.
http://youtu.be/efsoxmy-SZ4
Sorry if I'm rambling, but I'm very excited. :) |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| SpottedT - 2014-03-29 7:59 PM
I'm so excited! Our run today was fabulous! 290 entries. We were 141. I worked really hard on having a smooth first and leaving it straight so I could set her up for the 2nd. And well, fast time was a 15.000 and I just wanted to be a low 18. When I left I was leading the 4D with a 17.02! I couldn't have been happier with my horse or my run if I'd have won the whole dang thing! I really tried to ride right and she really tried to do what I asked. So this is like her 7th run or something like that.
http://youtu.be/efsoxmy-SZ4
Sorry if I'm rambling, but I'm very excited. : )
Congrats.
The only things I would suggest working on is not giving her as much pocket on second ( I did see she bocked a few strides before and you were able to correct it).
I would use more outside leg, (this is my style I ride my horses more on the leg then on the mouth)
Lastly when you left your second you pushed your front feet ahead putting you back on your pockets, I would suggest pulling yourself out of the saddle instead of sitting back.
Good job |
|
| |
|
Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Very nice! Much better ditto on Cheryl'S comments but greatly improved! $ is great! |
|
| |
|
 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | I just want to say you have a very nice mare on your hands! Just keep riding, and she is only going to improve. That last run was awesome!
I like how she WANTS to work for you.  |
|
| |
|
Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | That was nice! Greatly improved. Keep up the good work. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| Thanks all. I bred and raised this mare, so it's fun to do new things with her and have her succeed. I don't know why I can't seem to get my butt out of the saddle. I've even been practicing getting up better. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| SpottedT - 2014-03-30 2:53 PM
Thanks all. I bred and raised this mare, so it's fun to do new things with her and have her succeed. I don't know why I can't seem to get my butt out of the saddle. I've even been practicing getting up better.
Try shortening the stirrups.
On first barrel you were up and out of the saddle riding aggressively over to second.
If you find the horse is too powerful and is blowing you back, I try and reach for mane as high up as possible to pull me out. |
|
| |
|
Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | This is not a fun suggestion. But you want to try exercises to strengthen your core and inside of your legs. Remember I said this wouldn't be fun.
 |
|
| |
|
 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Very nice  I liked that one video where the announcer was telling you Keep your feet on the ground, lol, that was funny. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| quoted the wrong one. figures. *edit*
Yeah, the mommy body is working on getting back into shape. I have managed to get into my "bigger" jeans comfortably, even loosely, but have a ways to go to be the toned, fit, body I once was.
Edited by SpottedT 2014-03-31 10:11 AM
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| Update on our "progress." As with any training, it seems like 2 steps forward and 1 back. We've been hauling every weekend, and since the last update, we've had 3 runs. I'd like your thoughts, as I've been a bit baffled, beyond the "she's just learning, we've got curves in the road."
This was at the PacWest barrel race. She really acted like she knew what she was there to do. I was happy with how she was looking for the barrels. If you watch though, the last stride of the first barrel she gets wonky. Then she kind of bunny hopped across the arena. It doesn't look nearly as bad as it felt, but shoot, I thought her hind legs were above her head. The ground WAS slick. I would say one out of every 5 horses slipped for the first 100 or so horses. It tightened up after that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Yqm5hiP6c&list=PLzgEbjEab26i7mLKWS...
The next was a local NBHA. She did not seem to realize there was a barrel in the arena, is what it felt like. What turns we did have, came from her "somewhat" responding to my asking for a turn. I keep watching to see if I missed something somewhere that I wasn't doing, but I can't tell. Definitely would value some opinions on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P9fEfaCTuc&list=PLzgEbjEab26i7mLKWS...
The last was this last Saturday at a local speed show. I love these shows for training. Even with the 2nd barrel boo boo, I'm much happier with how she watched for the barrels and turned them on a light rein. The 2nd barrel I gave her too much pocket and when she went to turn we about took it out on the back. She picked up when I asked her too though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4EG2qIsum4&list=PLzgEbjEab26i7mLKWS...
Edited by SpottedT 2014-04-21 12:37 PM
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| Oh, and I for sure see that we are still struggling with collection. I have been doing all kinds of collection exercises and drills with her, but she's still not getting her hind end under her like she should, both running and turning. Thoughts? |
|
| |
|
Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING | I focused on one thing which was the second barrel. You can see in the pxs below how consistent your entry is into #2. IMO one thing that is happening here to make you feel she is not collecting is that you are setting up her entrance improperly. In all 3 videos she makes a larger pocket and she pops her hip to the outside when she prepares to turn (at her rate point). This makes a couple of things happen. First it rocks her to her front end in her body position when you want her to be up and on her hiney. Her shoulder is leading the turn. Second because you feel that shoulder drop you lean to the outside at this point and since you have already dropped your outside rein (you tend to drop too soon) you have no way to correct this "shoulder problem" which is really a entire body position problem. You pull that inside rein up and over the neck in an effort to miss that barrel which basically, instead of pushing her off, pulls her into the well on the backside of that barrel. There goes all your momentum and she feels choppy trying to get around the rest of the turn.
I posted this on another post not long ago for someone who was having hip position issues..
If this is happening you need to teach your horse to move its hindquarters off your leg. Needs to move easily both directions. Then you need to go across the pen and make sure his body is either straight or his hip is cocked to the inside. You should be able to easily move that hip with your leg sliding back some. With a horse that already has a problem sometimes its better to cock them a smidge to the inside instead of just asking for straight. With their hip to the inside their shoulder is better pushed up and past the early entry point, their hip is better engaged and their body can't drop and follow a malpositioned shoulder.
I would ride her two handed up into the turn, cock the hip in and not let her begin to turn until your knee is at the barrel. She already has the habit of the incorrect entry so some adjustments will be needed on her AND on your approach.
Edited by geronabean 2014-04-21 1:36 PM
 (1.jpg)
 (2.jpg)
 (3.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 1.jpg (4KB - 235 downloads)
2.jpg (5KB - 251 downloads)
3.jpg (5KB - 230 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| PERFECT observation! Thank you! She does easily move her hip and I've done exercises of stopping, then pushing her hip over, but hadn't even thought to push it over while approaching. And it's so common sense. Will definitely be working on that this week! Thank you! |
|
| |
|
 Hero of the Year
Posts: 10767
Location: Haslet, Texas | I see a pretty nice mare that is taking exceptional care of you, which is great for where you are right now. I think she is just waiting on you for some speed and snap. I think you could leave the first barrel on her with one hand, then use the horn to steady yourself a little more. When you get to the 2nd barrel pocket, give her a little cue, just a little bump and then drive her on through the turn. She she's loping slow and pokey she just kind of flops around the barrel but when she goes in shaped really nice, like her 3rd, she can snap and turn really nice. You just need more confidence is all. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2457
| My little observation ~ check your position in relation to the barrel. For example, when are you asking her to turn? Early, late, and/or before your leg passes the barrel?
This video has helped me A TON! Good luck - we're all works in progress and you'll get better and better !!
Barrel position with Dena Kirkpatrick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0_-AcSQDgk
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| Thanks guys, appreciate all of the tips! Great video, now to put it all in play. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2457
| SpottedT - 2014-04-21 3:53 PM
Thanks guys, appreciate all of the tips! Great video, now to put it all in play.
You WILL get it! It takes time and patience ... I was just looking back through the previous videos and all I gotta say is WOOHOO!! You're just improving right along!! :) Keep it up! |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| Update:
I have ridden her twice this week, and thanks to the helpful tips I was able to pretty quickly see that something is wrong. Her not using her hind end isn't like her, either her breeding or her training. Due to our reining and cowhorse work over the years, she should easily be able to move her hip over at any speed. Well, the first day was a light session, and she struggled with it. I wasn't quite sure though if it was because we hadn't worked on the maneuver in so long or if she was incapable. The second she made it clear to me that she couldn't do it. So, no more work until after our visit to the vet/chiro next week.
Thanks guys for helping point out something that should have been obvious. :) Especially you Geronobean!
Edited by SpottedT 2014-04-25 7:24 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-03-21 6:58 PM You have done a wonderful job with this mare. I really do like her. You are riding sitting flat of your butt is what I see along with what everyone else has said. When she got high leaving the second barrel you butt hit the back of the cantle and this will cause one to climb when they leave a barrel. You just need to roll your pelvis forward and really pull hard on the saddle horn when you leave your barrels. Over all you are doing a really good job.
agree!! Nice mare! |
|
| |
|
Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING | SpottedT - 2014-04-25 8:23 AM Update: I have ridden her twice this week, and thanks to the helpful tips I was able to pretty quickly see that something is wrong. Her not using her hind end isn't like her, either her breeding or her training. Due to our reining and cowhorse work over the years, she should easily be able to move her hip over at any speed. Well, the first day was a light session, and she struggled with it. I wasn't quite sure though if it was because we hadn't worked on the maneuver in so long or if she was incapable. The second she made it clear to me that she couldn't do it. So, no more work until after our visit to the vet/chiro next week. Thanks guys for helping point out something that should have been obvious. :) Especially you Geronobean!
Anytime!!!! |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 238
| So, update, since the last update we've been to the vet/chiro who found where her back was out that was affecting her using her hind end. She also pointed out that her teeth had some points to get rid of, so had to get an apt with the dentist. Also, been on a horrific saddle hunt which has included trying endless numbers of saddles to find something to fit her shoulders. There was a month between hauling and the first video back was running in a side pull before I got her teeth done and running in a Bob Marshall trail saddle that I put on 20 min prior to running. That is this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULr-MasuMX4&index=22&list=PLzgEbjEab...
And then 2 days after I did get her teeth done, I warmed up in snaffle, but she didn't feel as if she realized yet that she had the flexibility of poll and wasn't as light as I wanted, so I put her back in the side pull for the run. I was riding in a Kelly Kaminski. I've since ruled that saddle out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfBcz15HLvM&list=PLzgEbjEab26i7mLKWS...
I can't imagine how we ended up on the wrong lead going to the first, but she swapped coming into the barrel. Also, I must have sat too soon, looked too soon at the 2nd.
We are going this weekend and I'm running her in a Circle Y Extreme Performance that I'm trying. So far she seems good in it and sweat marks are even.
Advice? |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I just watched the first video, nice barrels, she kept her leads well.
I would suggest don't lean back when you sit. Sit deep with your but, stay centered.
|
|
| |