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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I wonder how many people think ObamaCare is of no concern to them.
If you don't have health insurance, think again, so you won't get caught by surprise next year when you file your tax return for 2014.
If you don't have insurance:
- For 2014, the penalty is either $95 or 1% of your income, whichever is GREATER.
- For 2015, the penalty is either $325 or 2% of your income, whichever is GREATER.
- For 2016, the penalty is either $695 or 2.5% of your income, whichever is GREATER.
So, if your income in 2014 happens to be $50,000, you will be stuck with a $500.00 "tax". By 2016, you will be stuck with an added "tax" of $1,250. I don't know about you, but to me, that's a nice chunk of change.
Notice how they slowly, incrementally increase the tax (or, if you wish to call it "penalty")? That's called incrementalism, and they slowly squeeze your earnings away. Let's keep in mind that over the last 5 years, the median household income has dropped steadily by about $6-7 K.
How do you like them apples? Carry on, comrades. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | My son is the one I worry about. He is 27, but went back to school for another degree and we said we would help. At the time, I didnt think about insurance.
Now he has none, he has zero income and is in a very intense schooling program. He does not qualify for any of the "subsidies" and his "estimated" insurance is looking at in the neighborhood of $600 a month. We can't help him with that...He ownes his car, lives with my sister and we pay for his Cell phone and fuel...he helps my sister with handyman projects and maintenance on the house for his food. We also help with his car insurance.
I can't imagine what he is going to be facing. Hopefully he will graduate early next year and be able to find a job with insurance, but that is always questionable. . .
He has worked either part time or full time since he was 14. When he wanted to do this I thought it sounded like a great idea and we (the whole family) wanted to help. Now. . . . .ugh |
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Veteran
Posts: 122
| Oh I thought it was just the first figure not the percentage. That does change things a bit for the later years. First couple years I'll take the fine. Husband and I can't afford the $350 a month they quoted us for insurance. We don't live extravagant, I do have a truck it's an '07 and he rides a scooter back and forth to work. We make enough to pay basic bills and go out a couple times a month for drinks or dinner. Had to get rid of my horse so that I could try and start paying off credit card bills. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Unless you husband earns under $9500 a year, it is the greater of the two numbers and it will increase every year till 2016. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
 
| We allow our govt to push us around, tax us on everything, rape us roadside, take our property, so this should be no surprise.
Hey, they are saving us from that evil mold though!!  |
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | TAX STRIKE. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | GoGaited - 2014-03-22 3:11 PM TAX STRIKE.
That's right....starve the bloated beast. Break it down and start all over again. |
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Expert
Posts: 1815
| I thought Oblamer was trying to put off the penalty for a couple years, you know, until after the elections...... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | I get tired of the people who don't have insurance but sure think the hospital should give free care. People who filed for charity and the hospital writes it off, aggravates me. If you don't want insurance, fine, but pay your bills. |
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Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | rockette - 2014-03-22 4:33 PM I get tired of the people who don't have insurance but sure think the hospital should give free care. People who filed for charity and the hospital writes it off, aggravates me. If you don't want insurance, fine, but pay your bills. You hit the nail on the head. I live close to the county line and and I see the ambulances heading in to my county all the time - we have hospitals. Of course some of those people have insurance but do those counties reimburse my county for indigent care? No. Can we get our legislature to get off their backends and pass something where counties with hospitals can collect from surrounding counties. No. So who pays the bills, us poor suckers with insurance and pay taxes in these counties. Someone is paying the bill for those who do not have insurance and don't pay. One of the hospitals here had $10 million in uninsured care last year.
Edited by yipyap 2014-03-22 6:45 PM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 473
| I HATE THIS. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| There is a glitch in the law, i heard this on a news show. That if obamacare made you lose you coverage that you are exempt from the law, and they where saying someone went on website that you have to fill out the exemption that you dontmhave to prove anything, just fill out form and your exempt. |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | How do you pay for this great OBAMACARE without a job? Just like car insurance. You cant drive without it, cant go to interviews without a car, bus is 12 miles away and know no one to even hitch a ride with in a area into which you just moved. Designed only for the rich and loud mouths and really puts a strain on young old poor and especially women....I hope someone puts the white house in their graves. OBAMA CARE AND OBAMA #$%^&*() |
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Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | cow pie - 2014-03-22 8:17 PM How do you pay for this great OBAMACARE without a job? Just like car insurance. You cant drive without it, cant go to interviews without a car, bus is 12 miles away and know no one to even hitch a ride with in a area into which you just moved. Designed only for the rich and loud mouths and really puts a strain on young old poor and especially women....I hope someone puts the white house in their graves. OBAMA CARE AND OBAMA #$%^&*()
Have you spoke to someone who is a advisor on the subject? If you had a medical need, perhaps you would be covered by Medicaid. If you have access to the internet I would apply online and plan interviews on one day. Somehow you got to where you are and hopefully that method will get you to interviews. As far as the Obama rant, I see many complaining about the plan but no one seems to have a alternative solution.
It sounds like you are not in a good place right now and I hope things turn around for you. |
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 Princess Goontard
Posts: 4744
Location: Texas | Don't like them apples at all. Have seen every single person in my company with children on their insurance freak out. NO ONE is happy. There's been NOTHING positive for them
with Obamacare. NOTHING. |
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Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | amyliz - 2014-03-22 9:23 PM Don't like them apples at all. Have seen every single person in my company with children on their insurance freak out. NO ONE is happy. There's been NOTHING positive for them with Obamacare. NOTHING.
Where the minor children on CHIP before or did they have private coverage? |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | yipyap - 2014-03-22 9:30 PM amyliz - 2014-03-22 9:23 PM Don't like them apples at all. Have seen every single person in my company with children on their insurance freak out. NO ONE is happy. There's been NOTHING positive for them with Obamacare. NOTHING. Where the minor children on CHIP before or did they have private coverage?
Do you think Obama's ULTIMATE goal is to establish a totally government-run healthcare system? I mean "Single Payer". Do you think this whole ACA is merely "phase 1" into incrementally driving this country to a point where single payer (ie: purely socialized healthcare) is the only option? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | Yes this is first step toward socialized health care :(
How do you lead blind dumb sheep? One step at a time.... |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I was talking to a friend of mine who is ER dr and he told me one evening that 75% of the people that come in wait and go in at night when drs are closed and had NO intentions of going to a dr.. they go to ER..and most dont speak english and cant pay nor have insurance.. ****es me off.. if you go to a er and your in waiting room (exception mayo hospital) adn im sure others.. and you know that when you leave you will have at least a 2500 bill to pay before you walk out the door.. and yet some wont pay a dime.other thing that bothers me? isnt to do with health care but i drive down the road now and see Guys appear to be early 20's... just hanging out.. walking the roads, and I cant help but think.. get a job. they go in to store at noon and get sixpacks.. everything is so bad these days. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-22 9:49 PM yipyap - 2014-03-22 9:30 PM amyliz - 2014-03-22 9:23 PM Don't like them apples at all. Have seen every single person in my company with children on their insurance freak out. NO ONE is happy. There's been NOTHING positive for them with Obamacare. NOTHING. Where the minor children on CHIP before or did they have private coverage?
Single payer has been their goal since day one and screwing up everyone's insurance is the first step of us accepting it.
After having great health insurance for over 44 years...I no longer have health insurance. I have catastrophic insurance and after paying $6,000. a year in premiums, I have to spend another $6,000. before I get any coverage. Such a deal. 
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | The unfortunate deal in our family (we have our own business/self-employed, never had health insurance) is the that the cost of the penalty (even at the 2.5% a year) will be less than the cost of Obamacare for us. And we can't afford other health insurance either. We've always paid medical bills...usually on the spot, but we also try hard to take good care of ourselves because we can't afford medical bills. From what I have heard, I think I want Canada's healthcare plan (and maybe government too). |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | mtcanchazer - 2014-03-22 11:02 PM The unfortunate deal in our family (we have our own business/self-employed, never had health insurance) is the that the cost of the penalty (even at the 2.5% a year) will be less than the cost of Obamacare for us. And we can't afford other health insurance either. We've always paid medical bills...usually on the spot, but we also try hard to take good care of ourselves because we can't afford medical bills. From what I have heard, I think I want Canada's healthcare plan (and maybe government too).
Yep, that's exactly what Obama wants as well. He wants more people like you to want socialized medicine/single payer. This is his goal. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-22 11:19 PM mtcanchazer - 2014-03-22 11:02 PM The unfortunate deal in our family (we have our own business/self-employed, never had health insurance) is the that the cost of the penalty (even at the 2.5% a year) will be less than the cost of Obamacare for us. And we can't afford other health insurance either. We've always paid medical bills...usually on the spot, but we also try hard to take good care of ourselves because we can't afford medical bills. From what I have heard, I think I want Canada's healthcare plan (and maybe government too). Yep, that's exactly what Obama wants as well. He wants more people like you to want socialized medicine/single payer. This is his goal.
I'm not ready for socialized medicine. I'm use to being able to go get the best healthcare available in the world. In Obama's world it's time for me to get a pain pill instead of being able to get something fixed. |
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| What the good Doctor is saying is true yesterday .... and is spot on with his carefully worded warnings ...
by all the inputs even the democrats are saying there are going to be sharp increases 2-3X over and beyond the original price releases. ... Not to mention the increase in drug costs and the HUGE DEDUCTIBLES that prevent you from using the insurance .... and we are not talking about $1200/year we are talking $300 to $1200/month.... everyone thinks getting insurance for a previous disease etc is great ..... have you seen the monthly cost for them ... like $6000 per month ... drugs not included ...
and expect the penalties and fines to be retroactive because the president cannot change a law without congress approval ... he never put anything in writing .... everyone just accepted whatever he said ....
It is a mess and poor Doc is sitting right in the crosshairs of anything and everything that comes crawling out of the 2700 pages no one has read yet .... everyone has just been reading the index and the mission statement on the front page of Obamacare ....
We still have city, county and state health departments that do nothing for your health ... they are now paper pushers. IMO wasted talent and money!!
Back in the 50's and 60's when I was a kid and before starting 1st grade .... the county nurse would come to my older brothers and sisters schools and line the kids up and give them shots ... even the 3 polio shots before pills were invented... ... all they had to do was put my name on the list and I rode the school bus to school with them and got all of the required shots for free .... even the dreaded smallpox shot with the little blue candy looking thing on the needle spot ... lol ... and yes ... I stayed at school all day following one of them around to their classes without a problem but was welcomed by all the teachers and principles at the schools ... it was a community type endeavor ... and your county tax money did something and had a purpose ...
I think anyone reading this thread feels like you are constantly being attacked by all of our taxing authorities in one way or another ... and now the big bad wolf attacks as AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE .... always fear when the government sez ... we have come to help you!!
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NEXT STEP EVERYONE MUST HAVE ...>>> ... Government taking over your home insurance because you live on a mountain top and do not have flood insurance and your car insurance since your tires and windshield wipers are not insured ....
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-03-23 3:33 AM
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Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Medicaid is not free. Neither is medicare. Nothing like jumping out of the fry pan into the fire. Obama health care has to go PERIOD that is the BEST solution. Nothing is for free. I had insurance but thanks to Obama care 600 employees were dropped the first few months I was hired on, I thought they were reorganizing but Obama Care forced them out of business so they were sold. They kept me on I was doing the job of 15 people to keep the lines running. I tore my back muscles ripped my shoulder muscle, have carpel tunnel in the same arm/ shoulder. I also had the same leg broke twice and currently have a screw backed out of my ankle in which the screw is rotating on every that it can touch. Yep in a very bad place. I so HATE that SOB and his plans. HITLER at best. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. |
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Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | cow pie - 2014-03-23 11:30 AM Medicaid is not free. Neither is medicare. Nothing like jumping out of the fry pan into the fire. Obama health care has to go PERIOD that is the BEST solution. Nothing is for free. I had insurance but thanks to Obama care 600 employees were dropped the first few months I was hired on, I thought they were reorganizing but Obama Care forced them out of business so they were sold. They kept me on I was doing the job of 15 people to keep the lines running. I tore my back muscles ripped my shoulder muscle, have carpel tunnel in the same arm/ shoulder. I also had the same leg broke twice and currently have a screw backed out of my ankle in which the screw is rotating on every that it can touch. Yep in a very bad place. I so HATE that SOB and his plans. HITLER at best.
Obamacare is fairly new - in that short time you tore your back muscles, ripped your shoulder muscle, have carpel tunnel in your shoulder, broke your leg twice, a screw is backed out of your ankle in which the screw is rotating on every..... I don't think this is the fault of Obamacare but a unsafe work environment... |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-22 10:19 PM mtcanchazer - 2014-03-22 11:02 PM The unfortunate deal in our family (we have our own business/self-employed, never had health insurance) is the that the cost of the penalty (even at the 2.5% a year) will be less than the cost of Obamacare for us. And we can't afford other health insurance either. We've always paid medical bills...usually on the spot, but we also try hard to take good care of ourselves because we can't afford medical bills. From what I have heard, I think I want Canada's healthcare plan (and maybe government too). Yep, that's exactly what Obama wants as well. He wants more people like you to want socialized medicine/single payer. This is his goal.
Don't get me wrong, we would be just peachy if there was no penalty and there was no Obamacare...we'd prefer it that way. We just can't afford Obamacar...the penalty is less for us.
When saying I like Canada's healthcare system, it isn't the socialized part I care for so much as the affordability. We have relatives in Canada, and the way they are running their country (and medicine) up there must be working for them because they are a prosperous nation. I'm not saying that it is by any means perfect, and I'm sure I don't know or have all the particulars, but perhaps America should take notes on the good parts. |
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Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money.
Those naughty insurance companies sure have good lobbyists - don't they??
Don't know what the answer is and when I ask those who froth about evil Obamacare they don't seem to have a answer either. I just know as a taxpayer who has insurance I am tired of footing the bill for the uninsured who come to my local hospital. Some of the blame goes to local counties who don't want to pay reimburse my county for their residents.
I know of 3 people (real people not someone featured on the news) who have been paying out of pocket for insurance. They have signed up for the Affordable Health Care and got better coverage for less money. So for those people I hope this works and hope more uninsured will use it to get coverage. I also hope that Congress will get off their duff and try to fix any problems that need to be fixed. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money.
Let's get some facts straight, my friend. Let's not take your word for it or mine. Listen to what Reagan said about socialism, liberalism, and socialized medicine back when he was a Democrat, over 50 years ago. Before anyone wants to draw conculsion on what Reagan said about socialized medicine, listen to this. Keep in mind this was when he was a Democrat. Once you have listened to his words, then I challenge anyone to tell us where he was wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrlDlrLDSQ
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | yipyap - 2014-03-23 1:54 PM jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. Those naughty insurance companies sure have good lobbyists - don't they??
Don't know what the answer is and when I ask those who froth about evil Obamacare they don't seem to have a answer either. I just know as a taxpayer who has insurance I am tired of footing the bill for the uninsured who come to my local hospital. Some of the blame goes to local counties who don't want to pay reimburse my county for their residents.
I know of 3 people (real people not someone featured on the news) who have been paying out of pocket for insurance. They have signed up for the Affordable Health Care and got better coverage for less money. So for those people I hope this works and hope more uninsured will use it to get coverage. I also hope that Congress will get off their duff and try to fix any problems that need to be fixed.
So, you use those 3 anecdotes to bolster your support of ObamaCare?
Try this on for size: 6.2 million people were booted off the insurance they wanted. They were kicked off because of ObamaCare. If you are honest when you say you are "tired of footing the bill", then what the heck do you call ObamaCare? If you are sincere when you say you are "tired of footing the bill for the uninsured", then what do you call socialism? Can you please clarify?
Oh, and I am one of those people who "froth about evil ObamaCare", but I do have answers. A LOT of alternatives have been laid out there but people like you just keep saying nobody comes up with an alternative idea to fix our healthcare system. Liberals keep saying there have been no alternative proposals, and they have been lying.
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM
If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money.
Ahhh....Did you forget the 500 million that Obumer and Nancy took from medicare to fund this C@^& Law. And your history is wrong the Insurance Industry wanted no part of this law. They only came on line when the Dem's bribed them with bail outs. |
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Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-23 2:25 PM yipyap - 2014-03-23 1:54 PM jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. Those naughty insurance companies sure have good lobbyists - don't they??
Don't know what the answer is and when I ask those who froth about evil Obamacare they don't seem to have a answer either. I just know as a taxpayer who has insurance I am tired of footing the bill for the uninsured who come to my local hospital. Some of the blame goes to local counties who don't want to pay reimburse my county for their residents.
I know of 3 people (real people not someone featured on the news) who have been paying out of pocket for insurance. They have signed up for the Affordable Health Care and got better coverage for less money. So for those people I hope this works and hope more uninsured will use it to get coverage. I also hope that Congress will get off their duff and try to fix any problems that need to be fixed.
Try this on for size: 6.2 million people were booted off the insurance they wanted. They were kicked off because of ObamaCare. If you are honest when you say you are "tired of footing the bill", then what the heck do you call ObamaCare? If you are sincere when you say you are "tired of footing the bill for the uninsured", then what do you call socialism? Can you please clarify?
Oh, and I am one of those people who "froth about evil ObamaCare", but I do have answers. A LOT of alternatives have been laid out there but people like you just keep saying nobody comes up with an alternative idea to fix our healthcare system. Liberals keep saying there have been no alternative proposals, and they have been lying.
I said I knew 3 people who had experience. That is all. If you know over 6 million who had a bad experience than you overwhelmingly have more personal knowledge. I guess I need to make more friends as I am 5,999,997 short.
I don't know why you are asking me about socialism. I restricted my conversation to my paying for the uninsured medical visits but did not expand on their total economic situation. And I realize that some individuals are not able to pay but am not comfortable with leaving them on the side of the road. I hope that clarifies my discussing ones ability to pay a hospital bill versus a total social and economic system (i.e. socialiam is one variation).
As far as the alternatives, be sure and write your Congressman with those suggestions and perhaps he/she can spearhead a effort in Congress to push that through. I said that individuals I discuss this with had no suggestions but I have never talked to "people like you". So be sure and contact your Congressperson with those alternatives. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Only 1 in 10 who have signed up for the ACA were previously without insurance, the rest are ones that had insurance and it was cancelled or they chose the ACA insurance. It's goal of getting the uninsured affordable insurance has failed. We are in the same boat of ER as the doc for the uninsured, everyone is just paying more for it. |
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 I Love My Mares!
Posts: 1613
Location: Moved to Montana | Something needs to be done about what a joke insurance is. We had a baby via c section this year so we should have actually made use of our policy. Nope it would have been cheaper to save the premium money and pay ourselves by about 5 grand. Madness especially when you add in my employer is paying part of the cost and we still spent more in coverage than we used |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | The basic problem in our healthcare system is that it costs too damm much. That's really the problem. Americans want to fix what's wrong, while preserving what's good. So, in essence, we all want to provide the best possible quality (including accessibility) at the lowest possible price. Socialism doesn't accomplish this. Under socialism something is sacrificed. This is why we are seeing a growing movement toward privatization in Canada, Great Britain, and other European countries. If you look it up, that's what you will find. Everyone agrees that healthcare is too expensive. Logical, thoughful people can come up with a lot of solutions, but the problem is that, like so many other problems, it has become a political football. Socialized medicine the cause celebre of the liberal progressive movement and ObamaCare is the lynchpin. The vast majority of people in this country do not like it at all. Unlike other liberal causes, this is something that has hit virtually everyone, and for most in a very negative way. This is why Democrat incumbents have been veering away from Obama and ObamaCare like rats off a sinking ship. By design we are seeing employers drop healthcare benefits, and we are seeing other negative effects such as the trimming down of a full time work week from 40 hours to less than 30. If ObamaCare is left unchecked, all those "evil insurance companies" will slowly drift away, paving the way for the intended consequence of only one remaining option: pure socialized medicine. Obama himself outlined that this is his goal and his plan. There's no mystery here.
Any serious effort to fix the system would have to encorporate the best way possible to lower the cost: free markets. Until the people themselves are able to pick and choose their healthcare, we will never really have a market driven system. This is why I like HSA's where monthly, tax-deductible deposits can be made into HSA's, and people can choose where and how they spend their HSA money, when needed. Large, catastrophic healthcare costs can be covered with catastrophic insurance that can be purchased for a fraction of what people spend for insurance now. Money is a powerful motivator, and people will quickly realize they can leave their HSA money alone where it can grow, if they make healthy lifestyle choices.
If a 25 year old stays healthy he won't have to spend much money from his HSA and by the time he is 40 he has a pretty sizable chunk of money socked away, just like an IRA.
Add to that certain things like torte reform, etc....
That's just scratching the surface. We don't have to copy Canada or Great Britain. They are trying to copy us.
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| and the ACA does nothing to address the high cost of health care. |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | jd&ez - 2014-03-23 11:00 AM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money.
The majority of recipients pay in their entire working life...for a pittance of what is invested...this includes social security. With that said, it's highly doubtful that these same people would have planned/saved for their retirement without government intervention...my only question is, "What part of personal responsibility do people not understand?" It's terrible that we find ourselves in this mess, but, what's worse are those who see an opportunity to manipulate it in their own favor ie. politics.
Follow the money...it's not just insurance companies...it's anyone with their hand out, including those who feel that "I pay it & so should everyone else...there outta be a law".
What is the alternative? Death, I guess. For many.
I want to point out that for many of those 'indigent' folks there are huge corporations that have trust funds set up (yup, it's a 'hated tax break') that cover most if not all of those costs. And whatever happened to the Shriners? You know, those 'rich' people who donate to helping children all free of charge. I'll tell ya...they can't compete with our gov't welfare. Sad but true.
The heart of America has been ripped out by hatred, jeolousy, envy and class warfare...capitalism works & what we're now trying to become has failed over & over...it will fail again. Capitalism built this nation, greed of the individual who thinks "I have a Right" is tearing her down.
The reason so many were opposed to medicare is now in our face.
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | jbhoot - 2014-03-23 2:26 PM jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. Ahhh....Did you forget the 500 million that Obumer and Nancy took from medicare to fund this C@^& Law. And your history is wrong the Insurance Industry wanted no part of this law. They only came on line when the Dem's bribed them with bail outs.
I mdidn't forget about it because it didn't happen. That's insurance companies propaganda. The supposed "cuts" were funding restrictions to Medicare Advantage companies. They are already costing us 15% more than original medicare.
Yeah they are going to get less and they should get less. Isn't that your point as well? |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-23 1:54 PM jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. Let's get some facts straight, my friend. Let's not take your word for it or mine. Listen to what Reagan said about socialism, liberalism, and socialized medicine back when he was a Democrat, over 50 years ago. Before anyone wants to draw conculsion on what Reagan said about socialized medicine, listen to this. Keep in mind this was when he was a Democrat. Once you have listened to his words, then I challenge anyone to tell us where he was wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrlDlrLDSQ
Reagan was against medicare in the 60"s. he changed his tune once he was president.
His differing takes on medicare were purely political. But he never had an original thought anyway. I always thought he would be the worst president of my lifetime. I was wrong. W made RR look much better. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | If a person actually wants government run healthcare, it's pretty obvious you have never been to a government run hospital here in the US, or more importantly dealt with one from a healthcare worker's perspective.
Glaringly obvious.
Canada may have an overall decent system, but we are not Canada. Our government is in some ways, very different.
Honestly, the system was better before. And yes, I am fairly sure this is phase 1 to move to a single payer system.
It does not take a rocket scientist to look at our president's mentors growning up and see his overall plan for this country. Honestly, America is going to get exactly what it deserves for electing this dude. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think Reagan recognized Medicare as an established program, established by the representatives of duly elected officials some two decades earlier. It was/is essentially the law of the land. Unlike the current president who is weak, feeble, inept, and corrupt.....Reagan probably considered it to be sacrosanct. It's well known that he wanted to privatize social security at one point, but he knew this too was looked upon as sacrosanct.....not to mention political suicide because the Democrats had crafted this into a political tool for demagoguery.
Liberals are convinced that medicare is a sweet deal......it's a rip off, plain and simple. No different than social security. If you average $40K a year over the course of your lifetime and put 2.9% of that away in an interest-bearing fund/account that averaged an annual growth of 5-7% per year, you will wind up with about $350,000 by the time you are old enough to draw off Medicare. I would think a person could buy an awful lot of insurance/healthcare with that kind of money. If you die before age 62, all that money is still owned by your heirs/estate. With medicare, that money just goes into the black hole that the liberals love to worship.....government. Same thing with Social Security.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barrelracr131 - 2014-03-24 8:40 AM If a person actually wants government run healthcare, it's pretty obvious you have never been to a government run hospital here in the US, or more importantly dealt with one from a healthcare worker's perspective. Glaringly obvious. Canada may have an overall decent system, but we are not Canada. Our government is in some ways, very different. Honestly, the system was better before. And yes, I am fairly sure this is phase 1 to move to a single payer system. It does not take a rocket scientist to look at our president's mentors growning up and see his overall plan for this country. Honestly, America is going to get exactly what it deserves for electing this dude.
You got that right, Alison. Take a look at the annual VA budget for healthcare and divide that by the number of veterans it supposedly serves. The number is staggering. If you want to see a staggering number, extrapolate those VA numbers out to cover 325 million Americans. That will give you a very rough idea of what a liberal socialized national healthcare system would cost. That doesn't even take into account the quality of care! |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-24 9:03 AM
barrelracr131 - 2014-03-24 8:40 AM If a person actually wants government run healthcare, it's pretty obvious you have never been to a government run hospital here in the US, or more importantly dealt with one from a healthcare worker's perspective. Glaringly obvious. Canada may have an overall decent system, but we are not Canada. Our government is in some ways, very different. Honestly, the system was better before. And yes, I am fairly sure this is phase 1 to move to a single payer system. It does not take a rocket scientist to look at our president's mentors growning up and see his overall plan for this country. Honestly, America is going to get exactly what it deserves for electing this dude.
You got that right, Alison. Take a look at the annual VA budget for healthcare and divide that by the number of veterans it supposedly serves. The number is staggering. If you want to see a staggering number, extrapolate those VA numbers out to cover 325 million Americans. That will give you a very rough idea of what a liberal socialized national healthcare system would cost. That doesn't even take into account the quality of care!
My lab is located really close to a certain government hospital.
They were in the news recently for stacking bodies in the morgue drawers that also had improper/imcomplete IDs....
I have lots of personal anecdotes regarding the quality of their care, paperwork filling out skills, and a couple people I know who went there.
One specifically ended up in another hospital after he had a tracheotomy done, and the hospital sent him home without any antibiotics (and did not write him an Rx).
Guess what, massive infection. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 683
Location: Ohio | Here in Ohio the application process is backed up so I have been waiting to see how much my husband and I will actually be paying. This whole process has made me so uneasy and creeps me out. Goodbye Land of the Free, it was fun while it lasted!  |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barrelracr131 - 2014-03-24 9:30 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-24 9:03 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-03-24 8:40 AM If a person actually wants government run healthcare, it's pretty obvious you have never been to a government run hospital here in the US, or more importantly dealt with one from a healthcare worker's perspective. Glaringly obvious. Canada may have an overall decent system, but we are not Canada. Our government is in some ways, very different. Honestly, the system was better before. And yes, I am fairly sure this is phase 1 to move to a single payer system. It does not take a rocket scientist to look at our president's mentors growning up and see his overall plan for this country. Honestly, America is going to get exactly what it deserves for electing this dude. You got that right, Alison. Take a look at the annual VA budget for healthcare and divide that by the number of veterans it supposedly serves. The number is staggering. If you want to see a staggering number, extrapolate those VA numbers out to cover 325 million Americans. That will give you a very rough idea of what a liberal socialized national healthcare system would cost. That doesn't even take into account the quality of care! My lab is located really close to a certain government hospital. They were in the news recently for stacking bodies in the morgue drawers that also had improper/imcomplete IDs.... I have lots of personal anecdotes regarding the quality of their care, paperwork filling out skills, and a couple people I know who went there. One specifically ended up in another hospital after he had a tracheotomy done, and the hospital sent him home without any antibiotics (and did not write him an Rx ). Guess what, massive infection.
The VA is a case study in government inefficiency. People would be irate to learn of the games the individual hospitals play in order to jack up their budgets so they get a bigger share of the trough. Back in the 80s, for instance, they had a "rule" that a patient had to be admitted in order to have any kind of operation. Yes, that's true. If you had to remove a zit from someone you couldn't do it in the clinic....it had to be in the OR. In order to be scheduled, you had to be an inpatient. Not only that, but all patients, regardless of how minor the operation was or how healthy the patient, had to have a CBC, a metabolic panel, a urinalysis, an ECG and a chest xray. When I b!tched about it, the administrator I talked to just openly admitted that the reason for those outlandish rules and labs was so they could get more money allocated/appropriated to that hospital (in Milwaukee). Granted, they don't do that now, but you can be sure similar games are played with taxpayer dollars. If we had to pay for everyone's healthcare and if we project those numbers to cover 325 million citizens, we would may roughly $ 1 TRILLION more per year. Keep in mind that is based on the VA's own numbers. When they say they provide care for over 5 million vets, they are lying. A lot of vets get very routine care and meds through the VA system, Anything out of the ordinary or anything serious winds up in a private hospital or clinic! If you buy Flintstone vitamins using your VA benefits, but take care of your prostate cancer at a private hospital, they will include you in their list of vets being cared for at the VA. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-24 8:54 AM I think Reagan recognized Medicare as an established program, established by the representatives of duly elected officials some two decades earlier. It was/is essentially the law of the land. Unlike the current president who is weak, feeble, inept, and corrupt.....Reagan probably considered it to be sacrosanct. It's well known that he wanted to privatize social security at one point, but he knew this too was looked upon as sacrosanct.....not to mention political suicide because the Democrats had crafted this into a political tool for demagoguery.
Liberals are convinced that medicare is a sweet deal......it's a rip off, plain and simple. No different than social security. If you average $40K a year over the course of your lifetime and put 2.9% of that away in an interest-bearing fund/account that averaged an annual growth of 5-7% per year, you will wind up with about $350,000 by the time you are old enough to draw off Medicare. I would think a person could buy an awful lot of insurance/healthcare with that kind of money. If you die before age 62, all that money is still owned by your heirs/estate. With medicare, that money just goes into the black hole that the liberals love to worship.....government. Same thing with Social Security.
Then they take $109.00 out of your social security check for Medicare part B. My husband then pays $43.00 monthly for his RX and $155.00 for his supplemental. Far from being free..LOL
I'm doing our taxes right now and I can't believe what we pay out in insurance a year. Makes me want to |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| GoGaited - 2014-03-22 1:11 PM
TAX STRIKE.
I don't MIND paying taxes as long as they go to something that we need. Which it is not. Like the government shut down...they didn't pay soldiers, unemployment, seniors, or keep national parks and government agencies open...but the dumb asses in congress STILL got paid! |
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 The Bird Lady
Posts: 6440
Location: The end of the Earth, SE AR | Nevertooold - 2014-03-24 2:34 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-24 8:54 AM I think Reagan recognized Medicare as an established program, established by the representatives of duly elected officials some two decades earlier. It was/is essentially the law of the land. Unlike the current president who is weak, feeble, inept, and corrupt.....Reagan probably considered it to be sacrosanct. It's well known that he wanted to privatize social security at one point, but he knew this too was looked upon as sacrosanct.....not to mention political suicide because the Democrats had crafted this into a political tool for demagoguery.
Liberals are convinced that medicare is a sweet deal......it's a rip off, plain and simple. No different than social security. If you average $40K a year over the course of your lifetime and put 2.9% of that away in an interest-bearing fund/account that averaged an annual growth of 5-7% per year, you will wind up with about $350,000 by the time you are old enough to draw off Medicare. I would think a person could buy an awful lot of insurance/healthcare with that kind of money. If you die before age 62, all that money is still owned by your heirs/estate. With medicare, that money just goes into the black hole that the liberals love to worship.....government. Same thing with Social Security.
Then they take $109.00 out of your social security check for Medicare part B. My husband then pays $43.00 monthly for his RX and $155.00 for his supplemental. Far from being free..LOL
I'm doing our taxes right now and I can't believe what we pay out in insurance a year. Makes me want to
Right there with ya, sister.
And this year instead of a set tier of prices for drugs, like $30 $50 etc, its a percentage of the drug's cost, such as we pay 40% or 50% or 60% and that's AFTER meeting a deductible amount.
There is a big difference in the plans pre-Obummercare and this year.
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 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | I haven't read the all the posts, but here's my perspective. The IRS is calling it the "individual Shared Responsibility Payment" I am NOT happy. In fact I am VERY upset :/ I am currently attending college online to earn a degree toward medical coding and billing, work a part time job(20 hrs) and barter for many things we need. I'm not feeling deprived by any means. My daughter & son (15 & 16) have always worked to help support their hobbies. (roping & dirt track racing) They earn sponsors too. My mom shares a house with us and we have chickens & goats for milk, eggs, and meat. I'm not trying to say we are some kind of super hero family, but we are a pretty healthy bunch. In our state, the kids & I would qualify for medicaid BUT I am morally against it for many reasons, so, we do not have it. When I start my new career, I plan to join a Christian co-op for health care costs. SO, because I am acting in a responsible way, I am going to be punished! SO ANGRY!!!!!!!! |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | When are people going to realize that medicare and social security are huge rip offs? I just wonder if people even THINK anymore.
What kind of a deal is it where an amount equivalent to over 15% of your income is confiscated over your lifetime, and in return you get sh!tty health insurance that needs to be supplemented, and a meager pittance in retirement income?
Please, some of you liberal types, in all seriousness, can you explain this to me? WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BEGIN USING THEIR BRAINS??????? Are we that dumb???? You Democrats are citizens too.....aren't you mad about this??? This should NOT be a Democrat/Republican issue. Everyone ought to be up in arms.
The average social security check is $1200 a month. People don't save for retirement anymore. How do they expect to live? Democrats run around touting the amazing success of social security. Really? Says who? I gues it is successful IF you support screwing citizens of their money through confiscation, and turning around and get away by calling it an "entitlement". Entitlement my ass! It's a loan to a bloated, inefficient, incompetent government and they basically default on it, more or less. An amount equivalent to over 15% of what we earn for LIFE and if you die before 62, unless you have a dependent, nothing gets paid back.
Edited by HotbearLVR 2014-03-24 3:57 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| I agree. People are banking in SS. Well I'm 31 and pretty sure there will be non left by the time I am eligible. People all want something for nothing. Well that means someone is getting nothing for something. Case in point obamacare. The middle class is suffering and there is not going to be a middle class soon. How can anyone that has two brain cells to rub together think Obama care is a good idea |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | heidiinaz - 2014-03-24 4:37 PM I agree. People are banking in SS. Well I'm 31 and pretty sure there will be non left by the time I am eligible. People all want something for nothing. Well that means someone is getting nothing for something. Case in point obamacare. The middle class is suffering and there is not going to be a middle class soon. How can anyone that has two brain cells to rub together think Obama care is a good idea
Here's the rub, Heidi. Not only should you not bank on SS to be there when you retire, rather, you should scream at the top of your lungs to stop the confiscation of YOUR money. Are you and your peers content to just sit back and allow the status quo to continue without making a fuss? THAT is the only hope for a change. If people simply roll over and accept it as inevitable, then the government blood sucking will continue.
I would not be opposed to a simple transition to a privatized system. The "contribution" can remain the same, and it can be deemed untouchable until say age 60, except for death or disability. I wouldn't have a problem with that. All I am saying is get it the hell out of government hands, where it won't grow, and get it out into the private sector where a trillion dollars a year can be infused into the economy via investments through these retirement funds. With all the revenues and commerce this could stimulate, the tax revenues to the fed would soar.....and we can afford to take care of the 10% among us who can't care for themselves.
Does this make sense? |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| Totally makes sense and I whole heartily agree with you. Totally agree |
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-24 7:57 PM
heidiinaz - 2014-03-24 4:37 PM I agree. People are banking in SS. Well I'm 31 and pretty sure there will be non left by the time I am eligible. People all want something for nothing. Well that means someone is getting nothing for something. Case in point obamacare. The middle class is suffering and there is not going to be a middle class soon. How can anyone that has two brain cells to rub together think Obama care is a good idea
Here's the rub, Heidi. Not only should you not bank on SS to be there when you retire, rather, you should scream at the top of your lungs to stop the confiscation of YOUR money. Are you and your peers content to just sit back and allow the status quo to continue without making a fuss? THAT is the only hope for a change. If people simply roll over and accept it as inevitable, then the government blood sucking will continue.
I would not be opposed to a simple transition to a privatized system. The "contribution" can remain the same, and it can be deemed untouchable until say age 60, except for death or disability. I wouldn't have a problem with that. All I am saying is get it the hell out of government hands, where it won't grow, and get it out into the private sector where a trillion dollars a year can be infused into the economy via investments through these retirement funds. With all the revenues and commerce this could stimulate, the tax revenues to the fed would soar.....and we can afford to take care of the 10% among us who can't care for themselves.
Does this make sense?
I agree. However no one in the congress or the senate will ever propose this. They will never give up their piggy bank or the power behind it. Same with Obummer care and the 28 new taxes that comes with it. I see only one way to get the power back in the hands of public.....Constitutional Convention. |
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Penalty for no health insurance....will it effect you?