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Expert
Posts: 1477
  
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I've got a gelding that I had originally put up for sale because I have too many and he needs more time than I have for him but decided I didn't want to sell him but I had already agreed to let a girl try him. So I went ahead and let her try him and she loves him. I think they would buy him but she asked me about leading him. To me it sounds like I can have my cake and eat it too meaning I won't be having to ride him but I would still own him. He was a proven 1D horse until I couldn't make as much time for him. This girl had ridden several other 1D super show horses so I know she will be nothing but good for him. She's wanting for our state show and for NBHA Worlds and some district shows. Can someone explain to me how a lease like this would work?
Edited by TessBelle 2014-03-24 11:42 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
 
Location: Gainesville, TX | To get started . . .
http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/forms/Free_Lease_Agreement.pdf
ETA: One more http://www.silvercreekmorgans.com/documents/Equine%20Lease%20Contract.pdf
Edited by oija 2014-03-24 11:44 AM
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Just make sure you have a good contract, and make sure you can monitor the horses health condition. Many leases have gone bad, I think there was a thread on here last week about one. |
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 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | Just remember that you need to have a VERY clear contract on what is the responsibility of each party, including what they will pay if the horse dies or becomes unusable. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | If he was to get hurt who would pay for it? I say them but not sure. And god forbid but if he died while leased out would my insurance still pay? |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| TessBelle - 2014-03-24 11:56 AM
If he was to get hurt who would pay for it? I say them but not sure. And god forbid but if he died while leased out would my insurance still pay?
Those are things that need to be in the contract. The contact should be very specifically tailored to your needs. Specify who will obtain and pay for insurance, who will pay vet bills, farrier, feed. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| The actual lease price is the easy. It's all the fine details that are hard, because I'm sure I'd manage to forget something. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I see you're new here, but there have been at least a dozen threads since I became a member about leases that have gone wrong and one party or the other coming on here for advice on what to do about it. Parties that didn't know each other well and parties that were bff's.
I would proceed with caution if at all. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: SoCal | I could be totally wrong because I'm not very involved in contracts, but I've heard that you must have a witness sign or get the contract notarized for it to be legally binding.
Also, in the description of the horse include brands. Also, I believe the jockey club even includes what way the hair swirls in the cow licks as well as where they are located on the horse. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Last Catt - 2014-03-24 1:54 PM I could be totally wrong because I'm not very involved in contracts, but I've heard that you must have a witness sign or get the contract notarized for it to be legally binding. Also, in the description of the horse include brands. Also, I believe the jockey club even includes what way the hair swirls in the cow licks as well as where they are located on the horse.
A witness or notary is not a legal requirement for a contract to be binding. However, it is a good idea. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| Put everything in the contract, who pays for what...if you as the owner get to collect a portion of any winnings won while the horse is leased (yes, that has come back to bite some in the rear) what happens if the horse becomes unusable or dies, etc. It's best to have the lessees do a "pre-purchase" type of exam with the vet they will be using if it's not your vet to kind of know what is going on with the horse before they take it.
Check your insurance policy...the one I have states that a horse that is leased to someone else will NOT be covered unless the lessee purchases their own insurance for the animal in addition to mine. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I helped a friend with a contract for leasing. She was given a portion of the winnings if it exceeded a certain amount.
She had a clause that stated if any injury occurs that was not predisposed, the leasee was responsible for cost.
She also put in their if major surgery or illness occured in her time as leasee, they were also responsibile (colic).
She also had a clause in the event of death, the leasee would be responsible for the amount of $xx,xxx.
She also made it clear that the horses maintenance and care were also on the leasee (farrier, chiro, massage, supplements, etc) and if the leasee fails to uphold the appropriate care, the lease was void and the horse would be returned imediately.
She also had a clause on who was able to ride the horse and where the horse would be housed.
I think this was the jist of the contract... Ill try and think of anything else.
You would need to speak with your insurance co about insurance covering the horse under another rider. Many people recommend having the leasee pull out their own insurance while leasing the horse. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Whiteboy - 2014-03-24 2:04 PM
Last Catt - 2014-03-24 1:54 PM I could be totally wrong because I'm not very involved in contracts, but I've heard that you must have a witness sign or get the contract notarized for it to be legally binding. Also, in the description of the horse include brands. Also, I believe the jockey club even includes what way the hair swirls in the cow licks as well as where they are located on the horse.
A witness or notary is not a legal requirement for a contract to be binding. However, it is a good idea.
I also agree with this. Much more valid contract if its notorized. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I would never lease out a horse. It only takes one bad slip for a horse to have a career ending injury and insurance doesn't pay unless the horse dies or is put down. Plus, in the words of Sherry Cervi, "Good horses are like packs of cigarettes....there's only so many runs in them, so don't use them all up at once." If you lease one out, someone else is getting to use up all the good runs, so that when you get them back, they may not have any left. Also, I have found that most people don't maintenance horses like I do, and I don't want to get one back that I have to put a couple thousand in vet bills in, and retrain out of bad habits at the same time. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and don't ever want to do it again. No horse is ever going to leave my house in someone else's trailer unless they've bought and paid for it. If they want to run it, they can buy it, and take all the associated costs, risks, and awards themselves. JMO
Edited by dianeguinn 2014-03-24 3:57 PM
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | stayceem - 2014-03-24 3:36 PM Whiteboy - 2014-03-24 2:04 PM Last Catt - 2014-03-24 1:54 PM I could be totally wrong because I'm not very involved in contracts, but I've heard that you must have a witness sign or get the contract notarized for it to be legally binding. Also, in the description of the horse include brands. Also, I believe the jockey club even includes what way the hair swirls in the cow licks as well as where they are located on the horse. A witness or notary is not a legal requirement for a contract to be binding. However, it is a good idea. I also agree with this. Much more valid contract if its notorized.
Unless you draft in the proper framework for identification of the parties and signing purposes, having something like this just notarized doesn't make it any more valid than any other contract. The validity of any contract is centered around the basic elements of contract law which involve offer, acceptance, consideration, and basically the capacity to complete what it is you've contracted to do. Unless there is a question of one party being the one to sign a document, notarization won't get you very far on making a contract more valid or able to be enforced.
People draft and write contracts every single day. You may have done one yourself if you wrote a check to someone because that's a contract. Having your check notarized doesn't make it anymore valid at the bank or at the store and it's pretty much the same thing for any other contract. The only time that a notarized check/contract would be needed is if there was a question on who the signer was. It has nothing to do with intent or ability to pay the contract or the validity of it's terms. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 151
| Has anyone ever had a good leasing experience? I've posted before about this, but OP, please consider all possibilities.
I leased (actually lease to own) an awesome 1D 15yr old gelding to a girl I knew after watching her mare colic and die in her arms. I felt so bad and she begged me and I gave in. We had an iron clad very specific contract. She had a great job and seemed like a great girl.
Long story short, she crippled the horse one night at a race. Didn't tell me for awhile, then lied and said she was moving and couldn't take him. She must have buted him or something when I got him back. He was 3 legged lame a day later. And I finally heard everyone tell me what happened. She refused to honor the contract and said he was fine when she gave him back.
Hubby wouldn't let me pursue it in court.
I now have a permanently retired horse. |
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What About Me?
Posts: 5199
| I leased my horse last summer. You need a contract I got one off the internet and modified what I felt like I need to protect my self..
They had a monthly fee payable on a certain day.
They had to cover her with insurance payable to me if something should happen
any vet treatment need my approval of course unless it was and emergence
everything I worked as my horse is wicked fast but not the easiest to get along with. But I don't think I will ever let her leave again |
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What About Me?
Posts: 5199
| I leased my horse last summer. You need a contract I got one off the internet and modified what I felt like I need to protect my self..
They had a monthly fee payable on a certain day.
They had to cover her with insurance payable to me if something should happen
any vet treatment need my approval of course unless it was and emergence
everything I worked as my horse is wicked fast but not the easiest to get along with. But I don't think I will ever let her leave again |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | Sorry to be a downer but unless the girl is local and you can keep the horse at your house where you can continue to oversee his care, and keep an eye on his training I don't think it's worth it.
So many things can go wrong and unfortunately a contract isn't much good unless you have the time and money to take the party to court if it's breached. Even then it can drag out.
If the girl is local and can keep the horse at your house then I'd say go for it. Offsite no way---- too many things can go wrong even with the best of care and it's you who will be kicking yourself in the end if it doesn't go well. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Something scares me about leases...even selling lol but the only way I would lease is if it stayed at my house and I could over see what was happening. I've been considering leasing out my pony to a 4H kid to ride but idk. Too many what ifs and possible issues. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | She does live close enough(hour away) for me to keep him with me. I've been hauling him to shows for her to run. The only thing I'm worried about is the 1st time she ran him she didn't warm him up as much as I would have. I told her that he had to be really warmed up that when he had a good sweat he was warmed up. He's cold backed so that's the purpose of that. She only warmed him up about 5-10min. Not nearly enough in my opinion. I told her at least 3 times that he would buck if he wasn't warmed up and that's what he did. So I think she learned her lesson. Right now she's wanting him just the months of June and July to take to our state show, All American and Youth World. If he wins I would like to have some of the money but how much do I as for? |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | she wants to use him for 2 months? Id not allow it. if horse is injured your screwed. you will play heck getting money out of her if something happens to him.. im sure he wouldnt mind being a pasture pet for a lil while.. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Bibliafarm - 2014-03-24 8:53 PM
she wants to use him for 2 months? Id not allow it. if horse is injured your screwed. you will play heck getting money out of her if something happens to him.. im sure he wouldnt mind being a pasture pet for a lil while..
Yes. Our state show is the beginning of June and All American and Youth World are in July. She does want him for the district shows but I can take him since I go to all of them anyway. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | You mentioned it seemed like having your cake and eating it too . . . I agree - in HER favour. Run, don't walk from this deal. She is using you plain and simple.
As one of MANY on here who have been burnt tryin gto do the right thing or be nice to someone, it IS NOT worth the risk to your horse. You have already mentioned she has done something different to what you advised her to do. If she keeps doing things like that the value of your horse will plumet and he runs the risk of being hurt. As Di mentiond, insurance only works if he dies.
Keep trying to sell him, you will be better off in the long run. |
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 Too Many Irons in the Fire
Posts: 1724
Location: Augusta, KS | Many people don't realize that a contract will NOT KEEP THEM FROM TAKING YOU TO COURT. It is a guideline that the court can use, and if you have done it right you will hopefully be protected. But going to court regardless is not for the faint hearted and not for those without a bunch of cash in their pocket. If they don't pay a vet bill that is supposed to be their responsibility, your only option is to take them to court. Also know, that if they don't HAVE the money, the courts can't take primary vehicles, primary residences, horses or livestock.... so your options for recouping the money are slim.
Just know that it can, and has, gotten messier than you can possibly imagine. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Wouldn't do it. |
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| I would not lease either. If you are done w/him, sell him. There are WAY too many things that can happen to a horse, and the majority of them are BAD!! |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | what diane said............... |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | bingo - 2014-03-25 1:26 PM
I would not lease either. If you are done w/him, sell him. There are WAY too many things that can happen to a horse, and the majority of them are BAD!!
I'm not done with him I just have young horses that take 90% of my time and he just gets put on the back burner. I still run him but it's not like it used to be. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | Walk... no run... away. You told her how you wanted your horse warmed up not once but THREE times and she didn't listen. If she can't follow something as simple as this is how I want MY horse warmed up then she shouldn't be up there and she certainly has no business borrowing your horse. This is a bad deal waiting to happen sorry. If I was borrowing someone's horse and they said do it this way that would be how it's done.
She wants the horse for the prime season and then doesn't need him and then what? Personally I think that there are so many, many ways that this can go bad that I think you need to politely say no thank you and let her find another horse.
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Leasing out a proven 1D horse?