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 MaMa Hen
Posts: 12223
  
Location: Louisiana | I have read articles stating that it is not necessary to vaccinate horses annually, if they have been vaccinated for a few years. Since having the vet pull coggins and give all "annual" vaccinations costs me close to $100 per horse, I decided not to vaccinate mine this year, except the new ones, whose history I do not know. How often do you vaccinate? (We're not talking about broodmares or foals; we're talking about mature horses who have been vaccinated yearly for several years.) |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
 
Location: Texas | I think I've skipped in the past, but now there's a least one event a year where I need a health certificate for and I haul a lot so we tend to vaccinate yearly.
You can always pull coggins and do shots later to split your bill up. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I vaccinate everything yearly. I have broodmares, young ones, performance horses that are being hauled, and retirees. My biggest concern is my broodmares and keeping them healthy. Since all of our horses come in contact with each other, they are all vaccinated. I buy vaccines online so I shop around for the best deal, and we do all of the vaccinations ourselves. |
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 Regular
Posts: 92
Location: here there and everywhere! | I also do yearly on my younger horse who is 8 year old (only owned him for 2.5 years) only because he travels more than my other guy. My 2nd horse is 30yrs old and I only do tetnus every year and rabies every other year |
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 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | You have to be a bit skeptical reading those articles because most of the people who are arguing that horses don't need annual vaccination are just inferring that from studies being done in cats and dogs. Obviously horses are NOT just large dogs, and we are vaccinating them for totally different diseases. In dogs and cats, we are now vaccinating for certain diseases every 3 years, but some still require annual vaccination.
My horses do get vaccinated annually, especially if they are hauling and especially for WEST NILE. When I worked at an equine hospital in Idaho, we saw several horses die from West Nile that had been vaccinated just the previous year, but had skipped the vaccine that spring.
I think the important thing to consider here is risk vs. benefit...if your horse has had serious bad reactions in the past (ie anaphylaxis) , it may be more risky for that animal. If your horse never has issues with vaccines, you are better off doing them yearly, rather than risking infection with a potentially fatal disease.
JMHO
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | I do. Everyone....every year. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| look at what you are doing with your horse ... If you don't haul then you probably only need things like West Nile (spread by mosquitoes that live everywhere in the USA) and rabies - you won't need strangles (etc)
Like another poster said, have them pull coggins later and it will help split the cost up too.
I personally vaccinate yearly in the early spring both of my horses, including strangles. I also haul around the country so I need to make sure that my main mare isn't bringing home something to my coming 3 y.o.
ETA - this year they got the full panel - West Nile, prestige 5 way (includes eastern and western sleeping sickness, Rhino (ehv1 &4), influenza, and tetnus), Rabies, and strangles
Edited by lindseylou2290 2014-04-02 8:37 AM
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Our horses we are hauling, and young horses in training are vaccinated for EHV, influenza, sleeping sickness and WNV annually.
I only vaccinate our broodmares for sleeping sickness, tetanus, and West Nile Virus.
We have a closed broodmare herd, if we didn't I would vaccinate them for everything as well. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | Every horse, every year. If taking care of them properly is an issue then thin the herd to a manageable number. |
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MaMa Hen
Posts: 12223
Location: Louisiana | Just for the record, for those who don't know me, this is the first time in my adult life (I'm 60), that I have not vaccinated everything on the place (which has usually been several more horses than the 5 I have now). It just seems, from what I've read, that it is not only a waste of money, but potentially harmful to the horse to be vaccinated year after year. My retired boy Tex is 23, and I bought him at age 5. EVERY year, he has been vaccinated, and every year, he gets sick after the vaccinations. Not "call the vet" sick, but he definitely doesn't feel good for a few days. If he doesn't really benefit from vaccinating, I don't want to put him through it. So I was just wondering if others had chosen not to vaccinate yearly and what your thoughts were on it. What I read said that horses build up immunity and don't require annual vaccinations to be protected from diseases. Don't assume that I can't afford to take care of my horses, simply because I mentioned that I would be saving a lot of money.  That wasn't my only reason for not vaccinating. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1479
Location: rabbit run | CYA Ranch - 2014-04-01 7:38 PM I do. Everyone....every year.
Me too. And will continue to do so.
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3314
Location: Jersey Girl | I vaccinate yearly in the spring. Sometimes I will booster in the fall if there is something going on (strangles outbreak, high incidence of mosquito born diseases etc). |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 830
Location: Paradise , tx | Yeap, every year.
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | I have went several years where I didn't vaccinate annually and I live in mosquitoville.. I didn't have problems. My horses live outside 247 pasture (not cooped up in stalls or small confined paddocks), good grain, good hay. It's a little hard for me to believe we have successfully destroyed the immune systems of our horses so much that they need vaccinations 2x a year.. My broodmare gets her rhino shot but she's by herself and I question that also.. (She aborted the year I was religious about the shot, the year before she didn't get the shots and I have a very nice filly)
Last three years everything was vaccinated in the spring. I will probably vaccinate everything for everything this year as well.. I have three young horses and with the stress of training And new hauling I will err on the side of caution.. If everything was mature and I had a light hauling schedule with no overnight, I probably would skip this year to be honest.. I do EWT FluRhino WestNile Rabies and strangles. And it's ridiculously expensive and I spend more on vet bills than I did medical expenses for myself. Multiple times more. I'm glad it's that ratio vrs me needing medical treatment but dang.. |
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 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | Nope never vaccinate. I have had more issues with vaccinated horses and a horse can fight illness as long as they are healthy and have a strong immunes system as well as you and your household pets. I haul all over the country and take pets all over and I had broodmares and foals and never worried about it. It is a healthy thing to get an illness and then you have a natural immunity. For instance West Nile. Most people if they had a horse tested would find it alreay had west nile at some point and now they have a natural immunity. Its like getting the flu in a healthy animal. The ones that die are the ones that are stressed, sickly, a weakened immune system. So if you vaccinate you are doing so needlessly and actually doing your horse more harm than good. I am an all natural guru and have listened and studied a ton on the ill effects of vaccines. Since I train and ride outside horses I sometimes have to vaccinate at a customers request. I guarentee you the ones vaccinated have the most problems and illnesses. They just seem to have a messed up system. I always say if you just don't believe this then at least learn about taking proper precautions when you do vaccinate. Always give probiotics ( the good kind with billions of CFU) and boost the immune system while you do so with some immune building herbs etc. Especially west nile. Last year I gave a mare the west nile for a customer that has insurance on the horse and it had problems for six weeks after. Swollen legs, body condition went down hill, she had allergy issues galore!!! I know that the Dr Deapolo (SP?) has info on vaccines to do if you think you have to and also www.headskaking.com tells a little about over vaccination. My 3 yr old I own has never had a vaccination and I was going to maybe do a tetanus ( I should that one) and if they are young and the skunks are about a rabies. But rabies only needs done about every 3 to 5 yrs and tetanus a booster if they get a bad cut. I have super healthy horses and I went to OKC and AZ and many horse around were sick all of mine are healthy! |
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 Veteran
Posts: 129
Location: South | I vaccinate everyone every spring. I would agree that it is expensive, but better than the alterative of catching something. I also haul alot, not very far, but to many local shows every weekend. You may look at buy your vaccines online (valleyvet.com). This is what I did, saved me about 50% on vaccinations. I also waited a few weeks after coggins & teeth floating to do this that way it wasn't as hard on the wallet. JMO
I also want to add, that my neighbors have several horses and don't do anything (vaccinate, coggins, nothing). I want to protect mine from that as well.
Edited by trobertson 2014-04-02 8:58 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Grits - 2014-04-01 8:56 PM
Just for the record, for those who don't know me, this is the first time in my adult life (I'm 60), that I have not vaccinated everything on the place (which has usually been several more horses than the 5 I have now). It just seems, from what I've read, that it is not only a waste of money, but potentially harmful to the horse to be vaccinated year after year. My retired boy Tex is 23, and I bought him at age 5. EVERY year, he has been vaccinated, and every year, he gets sick after the vaccinations. Not "call the vet" sick, but he definitely doesn't feel good for a few days. If he doesn't really benefit from vaccinating, I don't want to put him through it. So I was just wondering if others had chosen not to vaccinate yearly and what your thoughts were on it. What I read said that horses build up immunity and don't require annual vaccinations to be protected from diseases. Don't assume that I can't afford to take care of my horses, simply because I mentioned that I would be saving a lot of money. That wasn't my only reason for not vaccinating.
I'm not being mean - but - google search and learn what "herd immunity" is.
This is why I will continue to vaccinate mine every year. I don't want to rely on others to vaccinate and take care of their animals so hopefully mine don't get something - like EHV or Flu which are spread by touching things/animals/ stuff. I vaccinate for insect born diseases because I work for a research institute where I see what these buggers carry and what it can do to animals and people - I want to prevent as much as possible.
Just because an animal gets "sick" doesn't mean the vaccine is BAD. It means that animals immune system WORKED and is building antibodies so if they encounter that disease they are primed correctly to fight it. That is a GOOD thing.
ETA - So priming the system yearly will help the animal fight whatever it may encounter.
JMO.
Edited by lindseylou2290 2014-04-02 8:49 AM
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| I would like to see the science of why a human gets a tetnus shot every 10 years and a horse every year. Or why dogs and cats can get a rabies booster every 3 but horses need one every year. Or how immunities are built, how they are retained, or lost. Yes, I'm sure there is a lot of chemistry involved. But I bet there's a way to put it all in laymans terms.
My first vet explained a lot of these things to me. Her medically trained opinion, based on an educated understanding of equine chemistry, was that previously immunized broodmares passed on immunities to their foals that lasted well into the yearling year. And that by the time those immunities were falling, the young horses natural immunities were increasing as needed. Her opinion was to immunize no earlier than 12 months. And that after three years of immunizing a horse MOST immunities were strong enough to last a horses life time, with rabies and tetnus boosters needed every 3 to 5 years.
I immunize at about a year of age, then when the youngster is nearing training age. I also immunize my traveling/competition horses yearly. I don't like it, but it is required to go to some facilities. I immunize any pasture butts every 3 years, along with the broods that have had yearlies at least three times.
I agree with Amy L. that if we keep our horses gut healthy, their immune system will be stronger. They will build and retain immunities as needed, with minimal chemical boosters. Healthy gut = healthy immunities.
Maybe someday we will find a way to easily and reasonably cheaply run titers on immunities and vaccinate only if needed, much the same as how deworming is moving toward fecal test, then deworming only minimally. |
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MaMa Hen
Posts: 12223
Location: Louisiana | Thanks to everyone for the input!  |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I just watched a youtube clip and the lady is not a fan of vaccinating but she said why not just do one vaccine at a time every month and feed a supplement that will help build the horses' immune system and detox the hard metals. I thought that that is a good compromise and am going to do that this year. |
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Location: KS | For the last two years we didn't vaccinate all of our horses for west nile, only the "good" ones. Last fall a 3 year old healthy mare, not stressed for any reason and I don't think she'd been ridden for at least 2 months prior, come down with west nile. I WILL NEVER skip west nile vaccines on anything on our place again. We were lucky and caught it early, started treating before the test results came back positive. We were able to keep her up and I gave her all the shots at home, the vet only had to come out for 3-4 days and tube DMSO. Aside from the very healthy vet bill, watching her have so much trouble about killed us. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Amy is correct, Dr Depaulo (sp) has a wonderful article on over vaccinating. I encourage everyone to speak to their vet about this. I did. My vet also agrees that we are over vaccinating and he explained with horses there is more research showing regularly vaccinated horses are more prone to developing inflammatory airway disease.
The reason is the horse breathes in the spores, the memory cells in the trachea call the white blood cell troops to come and attack. All the white blood cells come to attack the spores causing inflammation in the airway.
Horses breathe in these spores all the time not and don't usually come down with the disease, but vaccinated horses everytime they breathe in these spores there is a full on attack which causes inflammation.
For people who do this to keep the disease off of their place, you can still bring in on through the dirt on your boots, horses feet, your clothes, etc.
I had horses 2 years ago that were vaccinated come down with rhino at a stable. All my equipment had to be removed and into quarinteen for 2 months, my horses were removed and placed in a segregated pasture with no horses within 10 miles they were there for 3 months. Vet said there are many different strains of rhino just like the flu, and the vaccine only covers the most prevalent when they developed the vaccine. The vaccine strain has never been updated.
The strangles vaccine there are more complications with the vaccine then with the disease. The vaccine can cause an autoimmune problem with multi organ failure. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| I vaccinate every 3 years - this was the year. Two horses became lethargic, temps, and no appetite for 3 days after, I am now rethinking my decision to vaccinate. I have not done much research on it so I unfortunately don't know the in depth pros vs cons. If anyone has some articles(Cheryl approved-she's an articles worst nightmare) I would love to read up about it. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | My horses are vaccinated and none of them are sickly or compromised because of it.
I give vetera gold + rabies. I don't do strangles, but if there was an outbreak I would do it.
I wouldn't compare the immune systems of horses to dogs or cats or people. I wouldn't even compare dogs and cats. physiologically cats and dogs are very different.
I am a vet student, I am pro vaccinating- people, dogs, cats, horses, food animals, etc. There is more risk with vaccinating cats than horses, so if I were to choose to not vaccinate an animal, it would be a cat, because of injection site sarcomas.
I do have a feeling that vaccine protocols can and will change in the future. The more we get into drawing antibody titers, the more we can cater our vaccination needs individually to the animal. It makes sense to me, if the animal has adequate antibody levels, why vaccinate?
Also, each virus or disease we are vaccinating against has different durations of immunity. Some viruses in certain species provide immunity for YEARS. Others have a very short term immunity. you can't blanket vaccines and diseases and species of animals- they are all different. |
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Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | Cheryl thanks for posting that! I have seen more horses with airway/allergy problems over the years! The ones I have seen with the most difficulties and the vaccinated ones. The last time I vaccinated a puppy it had full blown allergy issues and was very sick!!! I have not vaccinated her since and she goes everywhere and has not been sick since. But like I said before if people just have to be old school and vaccinate then do boost the immune system and give probiotics it sure helps the horse out!!! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | amy laymon - 2014-04-02 10:31 AM Cheryl thanks for posting that! I have seen more horses with airway/allergy problems over the years! The ones I have seen with the most difficulties and the vaccinated ones. The last time I vaccinated a puppy it had full blown allergy issues and was very sick!!! I have not vaccinated her since and she goes everywhere and has not been sick since. But like I said before if people just have to be old school and vaccinate then do boost the immune system and give probiotics it sure helps the horse out!!!
Supplementing them appropriately around vaxing time makes a huge difference. I've seen this in my kids as well, using a product called Vaccishield, which contains immune supporting nutrients and a heavy dose of probiotics and digestive enzymes. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| We vaccinate every year. |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I vaccinate every year. My isurance policies won't cover mortality caused by WNV if the horses were not vacinated. |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | I do every year. It's going to be $43 this year plus rabies because the vet has to give rabies vaccs up here. I do not do strangles because of the issues with the vacc and I do not feel the benefit from the vacc makes up for the rest of it. To me it's cheap insurance. Yes, it adds up beings I have 5 horses to do but honestly it's a heck of a lot cheaper than treating one of these diseases or losing one/all of them. No it's not 100% effective but I would feel like crap if I didn't vaccinate and they got it. |
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Grammar Expert
| Nope, nothing. Saves money, healthier horses. Same with my kids and my dogs. Herd immunity is an unproven theory based on one herd of cattle and is very misunderstood. |
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 Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | Everyone @ the boarding facility is required to vaccinate yearly as some are coming and going frequently and we try to keep the herd free of contaminants. If one gets it seems like they all do... I don't disagree that the rabies yearly is most likely over kill as they could titer them and see if its still @ the correct level.
On the topic of West Nile I will always vaccinate against it! We are surrounded by a river and have a pond in our pasture. A broodmare contracted it during her pregnancy and it was absolutely horrible to watch her suffer- She would literally be dripping with sweat and go down for hours @ any given time- Thankfully she delivered a completely healthy colt and has recovered, but I won't ever risk seeing that again. |
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida | amy laymon - 2014-04-02 9:31 AM Nope never vaccinate. I have had more issues with vaccinated horses and a horse can fight illness as long as they are healthy and have a strong immunes system as well as you and your household pets. I haul all over the country and take pets all over and I had broodmares and foals and never worried about it. It is a healthy thing to get an illness and then you have a natural immunity. For instance West Nile. Most people if they had a horse tested would find it alreay had west nile at some point and now they have a natural immunity. Its like getting the flu in a healthy animal. The ones that die are the ones that are stressed, sickly, a weakened immune system. So if you vaccinate you are doing so needlessly and actually doing your horse more harm than good. I am an all natural guru and have listened and studied a ton on the ill effects of vaccines. Since I train and ride outside horses I sometimes have to vaccinate at a customers request. I guarentee you the ones vaccinated have the most problems and illnesses. They just seem to have a messed up system. I always say if you just don't believe this then at least learn about taking proper precautions when you do vaccinate. Always give probiotics ( the good kind with billions of CFU) and boost the immune system while you do so with some immune building herbs etc. Especially west nile. Last year I gave a mare the west nile for a customer that has insurance on the horse and it had problems for six weeks after. Swollen legs, body condition went down hill, she had allergy issues galore!!! I know that the Dr Deapolo (SP?) has info on vaccines to do if you think you have to and also www.headskaking.com tells a little about over vaccination. My 3 yr old I own has never had a vaccination and I was going to maybe do a tetanus ( I should that one) and if they are young and the skunks are about a rabies. But rabies only needs done about every 3 to 5 yrs and tetanus a booster if they get a bad cut. I have super healthy horses and I went to OKC and AZ and many horse around were sick all of mine are healthy!
Ditto above. I never vaccinate anything (for many, many years). Very healthy horses, strong immune systems, haul everywhere, stay overnight, etc.. My horses lived with chickens that all tested positive for West Nile for over a year. None of the 7 horses contracted it. A horse down the road from me nearly died from West Nile; he was vaccinated for everything.
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | FirstFirewater - 2014-04-02 6:43 PM I have a question. Are the horses that have come up EHV1 positive vaccinated yearly horses or are they unvaccinated?
That's something I asked on a thread a week ago and no one answered me. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | CYA Ranch - 2014-04-02 6:46 PM
FirstFirewater - 2014-04-02 6:43 PM I have a question. Are the horses that have come up EHV1 positive vaccinated yearly horses or are they unvaccinated?
That's something I asked on a thread a week ago and no one answered me.
well I deleted my post due to reading about it wAs it's a virus that from what I am aware herpes in humans can lay dormant for years and flare up at certain times. So I'm thinking horses are similar. I would truly love to know the answer to the question though if someone knows |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Nope, if you are in question pull a titer. |
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Location: Big Blue Skies | I talked to vet about it and this was his response. Drug companies are the ones that suggest the vaccine schedules. He said he had his rabies shot before vet school and many years later checked his titer levels and he still had plenty of antibodies. If you are on the fence I would suggest pull bloodwork to see their levels. I used to do vaccines every year and do not anymore. I still give shots but do not do it every year. And I give them weeks apart not all at once. I do not believe it is good to suppress their immune system that much. |
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Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | As one poster said a mare was in foal and got west nile and got over it. Most will. And if you do vaccinate you still have as much of a chance to get it as the unvaccinated ones because in my opinion they don't work its just what we have been programmed to do Vets are finally wising up, or at least the one that really study and are progressing, that more and more people are aware of the harmful effects of vaccines. The ones that give 5 way and 6 way shots I feel are out to make money there is to much evidence that is nothing but horrible on an immune system! The last 6 way that was given in my care the horse was literally falling over for two days it scared the crap out of me. She had a bad reaction the year before and the owner gave her another shot and the same horrible reaction. I could go on and on about vaccine problems from way back. That is why I quit doing this to my animals about 14 years ago now. It is much safer and smarter to just let them build their own immunity to disease. And I let my kids play in dirt up to their eyeballs.
Thought I would add if you are giving Rhino it sure makes that herpes that does lie dormant rear its ugly head. Make sure to supplement A LOT of lysine. They will be overly reactive to everything, skin crawls, and they act explosive and hot. You know the looney kind that like to pull back and act like a bronc. If you vaccinated keep that in mind. |
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 Dr. Ebay
Posts: 8507
Location: Land Of Oz | I do rabies and tetnus. That's it. |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | I don't.. The last time I vaccinated anything was when the first "West Nile Craze" came around.
My horses are healthy. They have all been exposed to strangles at one point in their life, so built up a natual immunity to that. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| We don't vaccinate anything around here. Super healthy horses and dogs. No major sicknesses or near death experiences. I find most of the horses that do get vaccinated are more liable to get sick, and I have seen friend's horses that have had TERRIBLE reactions such as swelling, hives, and even a death from the strangles vaccine. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 614
Location: Usually on my horse | I had more health issues with my animals when I did vaccinate. I do not vaccinate anything anymore, dogs, horses, cats....nothing. I believe vaccinations interfere with the animal's natural ability to fight sickness. I have had no health issues in at least 15 years or more. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | I'm really kind of worried about traveling around some of you folks who never vaccinate... I don't mean to sound rude, but do you ever worry about contaminating others horses or yours getting something that may have been prevented? I'm just curious I respect that everyone is different and has other views I'm just trying to understand :) |
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 Night Chat Leader
Posts: 13150
Location: Home....Smiling M Farms | I feel like this is one of those topics you can't cookie cutter, there is no right or wrong way. I ALWAYS vaccinate for Rabies, because we have a lot of critters running around. I kill several opposums, skunks, racoons every year. Find them in the tack room, in the cat food, antagonizing a dog. Nope. I don't need a curious foal trying to sniff a slow moving varment that could bite them. So, rabies is a must and varments meet their maker.
I do a few others here and there, depending on the horse and what their job is, but I'm not sticking them for every vaccine known to man every year. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| The inlaws have pmu, and they were told it was an option to vaccinate for rhino, they have been doing it for the past 20 years and they never vaccinated because it saves them around 60 grand. well rhino somehow got into the barn. 106 mares were tied in and 92 aborted and they lost 5 mares. It was absolutly devistating!!!!
They also kept some back up mares outside but they got it as well and all but 9 aborted, the mares that did foal, some had some birth defects! |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Everything needed for my area, every year. No issues. |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | zansbeunogal_2268 - 2014-04-04 8:49 AM The inlaws have pmu, and they were told it was an option to vaccinate for rhino, they have been doing it for the past 20 years and they never vaccinated because it saves them around 60 grand. well rhino somehow got into the barn. 106 mares were tied in and 92 aborted and they lost 5 mares. It was absolutly devistating!!!! They also kept some back up mares outside but they got it as well and all but 9 aborted, the mares that did foal, some had some birth defects!
Omgosh! How horrible for them. So they had been giving these mares yearly shots and didn't do it ONE time and they all got it? |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | FirstFirewater - 2014-04-03 6:11 PM I'm really kind of worried about traveling around some of you folks who never vaccinate... I don't mean to sound rude, but do you ever worry about contaminating others horses or yours getting something that may have been prevented? I'm just curious I respect that everyone is different and has other views I'm just trying to understand :)
If your horses are vaxed, why are you worried? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| CYA Ranch - 2014-04-04 9:10 AM
zansbeunogal_2268 - 2014-04-04 8:49 AM The inlaws have pmu, and they were told it was an option to vaccinate for rhino, they have been doing it for the past 20 years and they never vaccinated because it saves them around 60 grand. well rhino somehow got into the barn. 106 mares were tied in and 92 aborted and they lost 5 mares. It was absolutly devistating!!!! They also kept some back up mares outside but they got it as well and all but 9 aborted, the mares that did foal, some had some birth defects!
Omgosh! How horrible for them. So they had been giving these mares yearly shots and didn't do it ONE time and they all got it?
yupp!!
they were giving it to them yearly for 20 years and the big boss's said it was an option if they wanted to vaccinate for it last year. so they never, we still arnt sure how the mares caught it. The mares are seperate from all the rest of the horses, and any horses that leave the yead and come back we Quarantine them for 2 weeks. |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | zansbeunogal_2268 - 2014-04-04 9:19 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-04-04 9:10 AM zansbeunogal_2268 - 2014-04-04 8:49 AM The inlaws have pmu, and they were told it was an option to vaccinate for rhino, they have been doing it for the past 20 years and they never vaccinated because it saves them around 60 grand. well rhino somehow got into the barn. 106 mares were tied in and 92 aborted and they lost 5 mares. It was absolutly devistating!!!! They also kept some back up mares outside but they got it as well and all but 9 aborted, the mares that did foal, some had some birth defects! Omgosh! How horrible for them. So they had been giving these mares yearly shots and didn't do it ONE time and they all got it? yupp!! they were giving it to them yearly for 20 years and the big boss's said it was an option if they wanted to vaccinate for it last year. so they never, we still arnt sure how the mares caught it. The mares are seperate from all the rest of the horses, and any horses that leave the yead and come back we Quarantine them for 2 weeks.
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | We vaccinate everything every spring. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Three 4 Luck - 2014-04-04 9:17 AM FirstFirewater - 2014-04-03 6:11 PM I'm really kind of worried about traveling around some of you folks who never vaccinate... I don't mean to sound rude, but do you ever worry about contaminating others horses or yours getting something that may have been prevented? I'm just curious I respect that everyone is different and has other views I'm just trying to understand :) If your horses are vaxed, why are you worried?
Vaccines statistically help prevent a human or animal from contracting a disease, and they lessen the severity of said disease if it is contracted and the animal begins showing symptoms. For many vaccinations, they also correlate with a better disease outcome (ie the animal is less likely to die, more likely to recover, and may recover more quickly).
Vaccination is not 100%, and not all humans or animals are able to be vaccinated. So by vaccinating, you are in a way helping to protect the geriatric, young, or otherwise weak animals.
Personally I examined the occurence rates of potential complications with a vaccine, and the complications themselves. I compared that to the occurence rates of said disease and their potential outcomes.
For me, vaccinating is a no-brainer to protect my investment. Everyone is welcome to make their own choices on this issue based on their own research- that is mine.
The only issue I have ever had with a vaccine is a slightly lethargic horse the day following the shot. This is the result of the immune response to the vaccine. It is the same concept as if you personally were to "feel like you are getting sick", but fight off the virus or illness. Usually the virus is dead or partially killed, so the animal does not get the actually disease, but based upon how our immune system works, it responds as though this is a real infection.
I personally have yet to see real, published and peer-reviewed scientific research showing that the major vaccines are harmful or not worthwhile. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| barrelracr131 - 2014-04-04 9:38 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-04-04 9:17 AM FirstFirewater - 2014-04-03 6:11 PM I'm really kind of worried about traveling around some of you folks who never vaccinate... I don't mean to sound rude, but do you ever worry about contaminating others horses or yours getting something that may have been prevented? I'm just curious I respect that everyone is different and has other views I'm just trying to understand :) If your horses are vaxed, why are you worried?
Vaccination is not 100%, and not all humans or animals are able to be vaccinated. So by vaccinating, you are in a way helping to protect the geriatric, young, or otherwise weak animals.
Personally I examined the occurence rates of potential complications with a vaccine, and the complications themselves. I compared that to the occurence rates of said disease and their potential outcomes.
For me, vaccinating is a no-brainer to protect my investment. Everyone is welcome to make their own choices on this issue based on their own research- that is mine.
The only issue I have ever had with a vaccine is a slightly lethargic horse the day following the shot. This is the result of the immune response to the vaccine. It is the same concept as if you personally were to "feel like you are getting sick", but fight off the virus or illness. Usually the virus is dead or partially killed, so the animal does not get the actually disease, but based upon how our immune system works, it responds as though this is a real infection.
I personally have yet to see real, published and peer-reviewed scientific research showing that the major vaccines are harmful or not worthwhile.
Ditto - Just because you vaccinate doesn't mean that the result will be "sterile immunity". While that would be the most ideal outcome, it is simply not possible yet in the science and research world.
I will always vaccinate every year because if my animals are exposed, I want their immune systems to be primed for the best possible outcome. I also have never seen a peer reviewed journal article that states that major developed and utilized vaccines are harmful and not worthwhile. I work in this industry and it is my job to test these things and find the potential "bad". Those vaccines don't make it to market.
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 Poor Cracker Girl
Posts: 12150
Location: Feeding mosquitos, FL | I vacc for rabies and tetanus every few years - tetanus because it's so hard to treat and rabies because, like Leo, I cannot manage to kill every critter I see and there have been verified cases a couple of counties over. Possums especially send me on a murderous rampage. And by every few years I mean 5+. The last time was 2009. I might think about it in 2015, though I'll probably pull titers first.
I don't vacc for other stuff because I too think that a fully-functioning immune system, especially in a horse that has to live outside with every bug and mosquito on earth, is the best defense and I don't want to compromise that system because a drug manufacturer wants to sell more drugs. I've seen so much improvement in horses that are detoxed from heavy metals and contaminants that there's no way I'm going to willingly introduce more. |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | vaccines can be very effective....but it is still a cost/benefit decision.......about the only thing that i ever vaccinated everything for was for WNV when that first came out but after a couple years i didn't do that either......i do vaccinate a few select riding horse for WNV yet....if i have one that is going to be hauled to some bigger events, i may vaccinate them for respiratory stuff.... |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | zansbeunogal_2268 - 2014-04-04 6:49 AM The inlaws have pmu, and they were told it was an option to vaccinate for rhino, they have been doing it for the past 20 years and they never vaccinated because it saves them around 60 grand. well rhino somehow got into the barn. 106 mares were tied in and 92 aborted and they lost 5 mares. It was absolutly devistating!!!! They also kept some back up mares outside but they got it as well and all but 9 aborted, the mares that did foal, some had some birth defects! 106 mares all with foal? What happens to those babies? 
Edited by justcruzin 2014-04-04 10:51 AM
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 The Vaccinator
Posts: 3810
Location: Slipping down the slope of old age. Boo hoo. | lindseylou2290 - 2014-04-04 9:55 AM
barrelracr131 - 2014-04-04 9:38 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-04-04 9:17 AM FirstFirewater - 2014-04-03 6:11 PM I'm really kind of worried about traveling around some of you folks who never vaccinate... I don't mean to sound rude, but do you ever worry about contaminating others horses or yours getting something that may have been prevented? I'm just curious I respect that everyone is different and has other views I'm just trying to understand :) If your horses are vaxed, why are you worried?
Vaccination is not 100%, and not all humans or animals are able to be vaccinated. So by vaccinating, you are in a way helping to protect the geriatric, young, or otherwise weak animals.
Personally I examined the occurence rates of potential complications with a vaccine, and the complications themselves. I compared that to the occurence rates of said disease and their potential outcomes.
For me, vaccinating is a no-brainer to protect my investment. Everyone is welcome to make their own choices on this issue based on their own research- that is mine.
The only issue I have ever had with a vaccine is a slightly lethargic horse the day following the shot. This is the result of the immune response to the vaccine. It is the same concept as if you personally were to "feel like you are getting sick", but fight off the virus or illness. Usually the virus is dead or partially killed, so the animal does not get the actually disease, but based upon how our immune system works, it responds as though this is a real infection.
I personally have yet to see real, published and peer-reviewed scientific research showing that the major vaccines are harmful or not worthwhile.
Ditto - Just because you vaccinate doesn't mean that the result will be "sterile immunity". While that would be the most ideal outcome, it is simply not possible yet in the science and research world. I will always vaccinate every year because if my animals are exposed, I want their immune systems to be primed for the best possible outcome. I also have never seen a peer reviewed journal article that states that major developed and utilized vaccines are harmful and not worthwhile. I work in this industry and it is my job to test these things and find the potential "bad". Those vaccines don't make it to market.
Ditto for me. I am old enough to remember and have friends who died and were deformed / disabled due to Polio.... |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | dhdqhllc - 2014-04-04 10:02 AM vaccines can be very effective....but it is still a cost/benefit decision.......about the only thing that i ever vaccinated everything for was for WNV when that first came out but after a couple years i didn't do that either......i do vaccinate a few select riding horse for WNV yet....if i have one that is going to be hauled to some bigger events, i may vaccinate them for respiratory stuff....
I could see this. It would get expensive for a large herd
I have one horse, so cost is considered but it's realistically not a limiting factor in that regard. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 376
Location: Stillwater, OK | barrel_racing_angel - 2014-04-01 6:32 PM
You have to be a bit skeptical reading those articles because most of the people who are arguing that horses don't need annual vaccination are just inferring that from studies being done in cats and dogs. Obviously horses are NOT just large dogs, and we are vaccinating them for totally different diseases. In dogs and cats, we are now vaccinating for certain diseases every 3 years, but some still require annual vaccination.
My horses do get vaccinated annually, especially if they are hauling and especially for WEST NILE. When I worked at an equine hospital in Idaho, we saw several horses die from West Nile that had been vaccinated just the previous year, but had skipped the vaccine that spring.
I think the important thing to consider here is risk vs. benefit...if your horse has had serious bad reactions in the past (ie anaphylaxis) , it may be more risky for that animal. If your horse never has issues with vaccines, you are better off doing them yearly, rather than risking infection with a potentially fatal disease.
JMHO
VERY well stated!
I vaccinate everything yearly. I will be completely honest and say I forgot to vaccinate for over a year and continued to haul my horse and nothing bad happened. Can you get away with skipping vaccines? Yes you can. However, when something goes wrong, you will ABSOLUTELY be kicking yourself in the head when you could have prevented it with a vaccine. I have a good friend who this happened to and I would NEVER wish that on anybody else. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | justcruzin - 2014-04-05 9:46 AM zansbeunogal_2268 - 2014-04-04 6:49 AM The inlaws have pmu, and they were told it was an option to vaccinate for rhino, they have been doing it for the past 20 years and they never vaccinated because it saves them around 60 grand. well rhino somehow got into the barn. 106 mares were tied in and 92 aborted and they lost 5 mares. It was absolutly devistating!!!! They also kept some back up mares outside but they got it as well and all but 9 aborted, the mares that did foal, some had some birth defects! 106 mares all with foal? What happens to those babies?
m
Edited by mruggles 2014-04-04 11:05 AM
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I give rabies and that's it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 911
Location: Durango CO | The barn I board at is a breeding facility so they require me to vaccinate for certain things like Rhino. Otherwise I don't. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| smiley - 2014-04-02 4:55 PM
Nope, nothing. Saves money, healthier horses. Same with my kids and my dogs. Herd immunity is an unproven theory based on one herd of cattle and is very misunderstood.
Herd immunity was proven with the eradication of small pox in people.
For tetanus, anthrax, anything with spores herd immunity is irrelevant due to the disease in spore form.
Since there has been a reduction in people immunizing their children, there has been an increased prevalence in measles.
I am pro vaccinating people, as there is ongoing research, surveillance, and improvements in the vaccines and administration.
In horses there is no ongoing improvement or research, and no changes to the vaccine strains contained in the vaccine. (People influenza is changed every year depending on the research) |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | yes....... |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 615
Location: kentucky | This is interesting to see what people said on vaccinating. I just kind of skimmed thru so it may have been mentioned but I had a mare come down with Potomac horse fever and was in Lexington ky for several days to the tune of a 2k dollar vet bill, west nile, Botulism, ect ... these are things that are high dollar to treat and can be deadly, there is a vaccine for them. I can live with a horse getting strangles or a upper respitory, ect we could spend a small fortune on vaccines when you have a herd of ten horses ! |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| We vaccinate 20+ horses each year. I'm not saying it's cheap, but it really isn't that expensive. I'm pretty sure that it cost me $36 per horse last year to vaccinate.
I've been going through old magazines and tearing out the articles that I want to keep. Today I found one from October 2012 in the AQHA Journal about West Nile by Dr. Thomas R Lenz. Here are some quotes that I thought were relevant to this conversation.
"Keep in mind that 30-40 percent of the horses that contract West Nile Virus die. That realization stimulated most horse owners to have their horses vaccinated against the disease when the vaccine became available in 2001. In my practice, at that time, I saw an increase of 15-20 percent in the number of horses we vaccinated compared to prior years."
"Today, I believe that many horse owners have become complacent and no longer feel that their horses are at risk. The fact that most equine veterinarians report a significant decrease in vaccinations requests in recent years confirms that. With the downturn in the economy, some horse owners cannot afford to vaccinate their horses."
"According to the USDA, 10-39 percent of unvaccinated horses will develop the disease when exposed to the virus by a feeding mosquito." |
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 Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | I vaccinate Spring and Fall. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Jenbabe - 2014-04-04 10:22 PM
We vaccinate 20+ horses each year. I'm not saying it's cheap, but it really isn't that expensive. I'm pretty sure that it cost me $36 per horse last year to vaccinate.
I've been going through old magazines and tearing out the articles that I want to keep. Today I found one from October 2012 in the AQHA Journal about West Nile by Dr. Thomas R Lenz. Here are some quotes that I thought were relevant to this conversation.
"Keep in mind that 30-40 percent of the horses that contract West Nile Virus die. That realization stimulated most horse owners to have their horses vaccinated against the disease when the vaccine became available in 2001. In my practice, at that time, I saw an increase of 15-20 percent in the number of horses we vaccinated compared to prior years."
"Today, I believe that many horse owners have become complacent and no longer feel that their horses are at risk. The fact that most equine veterinarians report a significant decrease in vaccinations requests in recent years confirms that. With the downturn in the economy, some horse owners cannot afford to vaccinate their horses."
"According to the USDA, 10-39 percent of unvaccinated horses will develop the disease when exposed to the virus by a feeding mosquito."
I'm curious to know if mortality rates have continued to be that high. It was a completely new disease to our area in 2002, so none of the horses had any immunity to it. They've had years of exposure now, so I don't think 10 or 12 year old statistics necessarily apply to today. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-04-05 11:08 AM
Jenbabe - 2014-04-04 10:22 PM
We vaccinate 20+ horses each year. I'm not saying it's cheap, but it really isn't that expensive. I'm pretty sure that it cost me $36 per horse last year to vaccinate.
I've been going through old magazines and tearing out the articles that I want to keep. Today I found one from October 2012 in the AQHA Journal about West Nile by Dr. Thomas R Lenz. Here are some quotes that I thought were relevant to this conversation.
"Keep in mind that 30-40 percent of the horses that contract West Nile Virus die. That realization stimulated most horse owners to have their horses vaccinated against the disease when the vaccine became available in 2001. In my practice, at that time, I saw an increase of 15-20 percent in the number of horses we vaccinated compared to prior years."
"Today, I believe that many horse owners have become complacent and no longer feel that their horses are at risk. The fact that most equine veterinarians report a significant decrease in vaccinations requests in recent years confirms that. With the downturn in the economy, some horse owners cannot afford to vaccinate their horses."
"According to the USDA, 10-39 percent of unvaccinated horses will develop the disease when exposed to the virus by a feeding mosquito."
I'm curious to know if mortality rates have continued to be that high. It was a completely new disease to our area in 2002, so none of the horses had any immunity to it. They've had years of exposure now, so I don't think 10 or 12 year old statistics necessarily apply to today.
When the article was written (Oct. 2012) it said that the largest outbreak of the disease was occurring since its discovery in 1999. I don't know if the mortality rates had been updated, but considering that the vaccine came out in 2001 and the largest outbreak happened 11 years later it appears that the virus is still an issue. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Jenbabe - 2014-04-05 7:31 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2014-04-05 11:08 AM
Jenbabe - 2014-04-04 10:22 PM
We vaccinate 20+ horses each year. I'm not saying it's cheap, but it really isn't that expensive. I'm pretty sure that it cost me $36 per horse last year to vaccinate.
I've been going through old magazines and tearing out the articles that I want to keep. Today I found one from October 2012 in the AQHA Journal about West Nile by Dr. Thomas R Lenz. Here are some quotes that I thought were relevant to this conversation.
"Keep in mind that 30-40 percent of the horses that contract West Nile Virus die. That realization stimulated most horse owners to have their horses vaccinated against the disease when the vaccine became available in 2001. In my practice, at that time, I saw an increase of 15-20 percent in the number of horses we vaccinated compared to prior years."
"Today, I believe that many horse owners have become complacent and no longer feel that their horses are at risk. The fact that most equine veterinarians report a significant decrease in vaccinations requests in recent years confirms that. With the downturn in the economy, some horse owners cannot afford to vaccinate their horses."
"According to the USDA, 10-39 percent of unvaccinated horses will develop the disease when exposed to the virus by a feeding mosquito."
I'm curious to know if mortality rates have continued to be that high. It was a completely new disease to our area in 2002, so none of the horses had any immunity to it. They've had years of exposure now, so I don't think 10 or 12 year old statistics necessarily apply to today.
When the article was written (Oct. 2012 ) it said that the largest outbreak of the disease was occurring since its discovery in 1999. I don't know if the mortality rates had been updated, but considering that the vaccine came out in 2001 and the largest outbreak happened 11 years later it appears that the virus is still an issue.
These are disease maps that track "reportable" diseases sorted by year - so you can see when and where each disease came from and is going.
They are compiled by the CDC, USDA, and USGS together to track where these diseases are spreading.
The link should drop to the WNV veterinary cases but you can also sort for other diseases by the tabs up at the top ... interesting data on when and where these are breaking ....
I find it all fascinating :)
http://diseasemaps.usgs.gov/wnv_us_veterinary.html
Edited by lindseylou2290 2014-04-05 8:39 PM
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 Color My World
Posts: 4940
Location: My perfect world bubble | We are at a boarding facility that requires vaccinations twice a year. Vet has had several cases of West Nile already this year - I would dang sure vaccinate for that and Rabies if nothing else. We are in E TX. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1069
Location: Oklahoma | casualdust07 - 2014-04-01 6:09 PM I think I've skipped in the past, but now there's a least one event a year where I need a health certificate for and I haul a lot so we tend to vaccinate yearly. You can always pull coggins and do shots later to split your bill up.
Our big shows here in Oklahoma require health papers, but they never say a thing about vaccinations on them. Basically a health certificate is pointless, all it says it that they have a negative coggins, which of course I have that too. |
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Do you vaccinate yearly?