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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
   
Location: North MS | I've got a 5 year old. I've worked with him for two years now (weekend warrior) on barrels. Already with mistakes he is faster than my "finished" horses. I went to a reinhardt clinic to get professional help. Turns out he has been training me as I've been training him. Last year he was throwing his head up in the turns and while rating. Refusing to listen and knocked me in the chin twice. I added a tie down for about a month and then pulled it off and worked every weekend for a month on stopping and backing. Then went back to barrel practice. Turns out he then trained me to ask for whoa/rate by pulling back and down toward my waist. I was trying to make him keep his head down. Reinhardts fixed that. Put tie down back on because as soon as I properly asked for whoa/rate he slung his head up in the air and said no. We are working on transitions now. Faster to slower, slower to faster, and trying to add a variety of speed gears now. Clinic was only two weeks ago so not a lot of time for improvement. Went to a small local show. I joked I was "participating" and not "Running". Well we looked like blooming idiots with him trying to GO and me trying to WHOA and get him to listen rather than "hi ho silver".
I can practice a pattern in private and look great at the same arena. Add in "public" and a loudspeaker- he gets in high gear. Tell me it gets better and they can learn to chill. I learned yesterday that getting on him an doing a basic warmup just isn't going to cut it (like my finished horses). Not just a trot, lope and such to get him physically warmed up. I'm going to have to RIDE him and do things to get him to THINK. He has to have some excess energy removed to get him to listen apparently. So I believe I will still have to look like an idiot in public for a while and purchase trainers/exhibitions to work things out. I did manage to get to the event in time for pole trainers and it helped tremendously. A bit chargey the first time- I insisted on a trot. Second time lope up and trot through. Third time- lope down and easy lope through. Repitition makes him think. Of course during the course of events repititon just isn't possible. Almost had a great quad pattern until he caught a gear on the way to the third turn and I asked for rate and he rub boarded me and made me loose a stirrup. Seasoning a young one.......... (Beautiful quad patterns when not in PUBLIC). Anyone else have any lovely experiences like this to boost my morale with how nice your horses have turned out. As of now he is in a bit similar to loomis gag (he chewed up the sherry cervi draw gag bit- tooth burr that is now fixed plus treated for ulcers). He will stop with it and listen- just have some resistance to work out. |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | I'm riding a ding bat 5 yr old too. Today was her second show. If you stand still she bobs her head up and down. She will work decent in a warm up. But we didn't switch leads out of the first. She has been lame and has injections done. So in some ways I would trade you!! I'm tired of the lame game!!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Personally, I wouldn't try multiple speed events on a young, hot horse. Stick to one. Once he is seasoned on the cloverleaf and big issues are done, then go for it. |
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Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | Bless his heart I just want him to be a well rounded individual capable of a variety of things. When the next cattle/donkey sorting comes around he better be game for it! We did that once and he had quite the aptitude for it.
Quads was actually the first thing I started him on due to the room/distance on the pattern and I could smooch him around the turns to keep him going (yep once he actually wouldn't run all the way around). Then one day it suddenly clicked in him that he could RUN. He was faster than me for sure. Quite the rush.
So pretty much would be considered hot. Wants to go a lot. Polar opposite of my other push horses. Only horses I have ridden are push horses. Methinks I will be seeking more professional help soon after we work on brakes, rating, and listening at a lower speed. As an example I know we can lope up at say 10 mph (total random guess just needed a number), slow down to trot around. Ask for 15 mph lope up and it still all works, Ask for 17 and whoops- he wants to go. Got to work on the transmission lol. Somebody needs to write a book called "Life and Times of Training the Hot Horse for dummies" |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Collection. Work with a reining horse trainer on the big fast / slow small circles. With free runners, getting them to shorten their stride in response to your seat and not your hands is KEY. Otherwise you end up in a pulling/head throwing / running off scenario. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-06 7:19 PM
Collection. Work with a reining horse trainer on the big fast / slow small circles. With free runners, getting them to shorten their stride in response to your seat and not your hands is KEY. Otherwise you end up in a pulling/head throwing / running off scenario.
Yes!! I have one that is 16 and she STILL does the head slinging/bit grabbing/running off scenario (not my doing...I am her SEVENTH owner!) and I will be working with a reining trainer to get her to whoa from my seat as she's actually really sensitive in the face. It's very different going from the push style horse to the free runner. Good luck to you, it can be frustrating.  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 503
| I was seriously going to post a thread today about this EXACT subject. I have a young one who thinks he knows everything so wants to just GO. Otherwise he's pretty lazy and calm, but like you said - ask for 17 mph and he's like BYE! Will be following this thread… Would love to know other's experiences. |
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Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | I'm making sure I am sitting (kind of over-emphasizing it as best I can) before I ask for him to rate and collect. If I am able to start at trot and work up it goes better. Saturday I had hoped for a slow lope in and even slower lope around- apparently we had a difference of opinions and it turned into a bit of a fight on the first barrel. 2nd and 3rd were much better. I was too worried on whoaing/slowing and wasn't quite able to aim for my proper pocket. Knowing is half the battle! It was just a small local show and he surely needs exposed to the sights/sounds/atmosphere. I did a pageant wave on the way out to make the "audience" giggle. AKA- make fun of myself before others can get the opportunity to. Let them know I realized it was a royal screw up. Immediate game plan- Thursday night go practice (long warmup). My actual preferred warmup is to practice a reining pattern. I guess I just need to make it a habit to try to find a spot to do this at shows so he can get his mind/game on. After warming up I will start out slow and try to work up my gears. Find the spot where he looses his brain and back down again. Finish by walking the pattern. There are two options for this weekend. One I REALLY wanted to do- Palomino show. I've even got it set up where I can enter the Amateur Novice competition. This is one of two palomino shows in my area each year. July is the Palomino World Show. Would LOVE to do a decent pattern in that. Not a barn burner. Just controlled and clean. We can do wild, crazy and clean- but pretty would be awesome. First time the world show is less than 2 hours from me. First time for a breed show (I actually have a registered horse).
On a side note and a BTW- I never use a whip and only have bumper spurs. When he first takes of going in the arena- I am not kicking. Video at the clinic showed that and I sure didn't think I was. It was just the speed he wanted to go (and the problem is that I am sure he has WAY more to give!). Fasthorseproblems lol |
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Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | On a side note- last year there were only 6 horses competing in the barrels, poles, flags, stakes at the palomino show. All showed in pleasure classes as well. Maybe god willing we could easy lope through and still manage to place. Just another arena/situation he could be exposed to. Wishful thinking probably. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| It sounds like he just needs to do lots of slow work. Basically warm him up in a pleasure class type scenario. Walk for 5 min, long trot for 5-7 minutes, maybe longer, and then lope for 5-7 minutes. Reverse and do it the other way.
When my guy was young, I'd have to "warm up" for about 45 minutes before he got his brain screwed on straight. He was 5. He's now 20 and I still have to do a fair amount of this pleasure class type warm up with him before his brain engages.
He doesn't need reining patterns, going through barrels, etc, etc. He needs slow work that works on wearing him out. |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-07 8:19 PM Collection. Work with a reining horse trainer on the big fast / slow small circles. With free runners, getting them to shorten their stride in response to your seat and not your hands is KEY. Otherwise you end up in a pulling/head throwing / running off scenario.
This is exactly RIGHT! Get your horse better broke - period. Take some lessons to learn how to collect your horse. Get him out of the gag bit too. It only encourages this behavior. Stop spending your money going to shows until you get some help. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I don't know what quads are, but as an outsider looking in, it almost sounds to me like you are focused on the pattern...or patterns before the horse is really well broke. For instance, you worked every weekend for a month on stopping and backing. That's not very much, really....maybe 8 rides? It sounds like he's trying to get away from the bit because they toss their head in the air the way you describe. The solution of a tie down just makes him more clausterphobic and then he gets stiff and the "Hi-Ho Silver" move is an attempt to escape. He's tossing his head to escape the bit, and I bet he's pushing into the gag bit. He's very young and it sounds like he could use a return to some basics, for example, the work on collection or maybe work with a good reiner who can teach you more about using the lower half of your body. |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-07 7:09 PM Personally, I wouldn't try multiple speed events on a young, hot horse. Stick to one. Once he is seasoned on the cloverleaf and big issues are done, then go for it.
Ditto to this too. |
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Getting the young horse to CHILL!