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 1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
 
Location: Southeast, Texas | Have you ever had a trainer turn down your horse after knowing their bloodlines?
We are making plans to send a horse to Futurity training. I have talked to a few trainers, just to get an idea of what to expect. These are trainers we are highly considering, so it isn't as if we are just trying to pick their brains.
All of them (four) have asked how our horse was bred. In my opinion, that's probably a legitimate question. (Maybe they have trained others and know their style, maybe they don't mesh well with xxxx bloodlines.)
We found a trainer who is laying down successful runs on a horse by the same stallion as ours, and were highly interested in sending our horse that direction. However, after being questioned about his maternal grand dam's lines we seem to have been given the good ole brush off.
Tell me SOMEONE has had a Futurity/derby horse that wasn't of the top lines that did well!! Tell me that I'm not up the creek because his "maw maw" wasn't a big name horse! [=
I know the Futurity scene is competitive as heck, and trainers probably don't want to take on a horse that they don't feel has the potential to succeed. I can understand that, but with what we are looking at paying for Futurity training I wouldn't think one would write you off without any information aside from bloodlines. Then again, I don't know it all! [= |
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  Crazy Chicken Chick
Posts: 36132
 
| I know some people don't tend to get along with certain bloodlines. Sometimes horses from the same bloodlines tend to have characteristics taht certain people don't get along well with. Like, some are flighty (in general) or extremely hard headed, etc.
I'd talk to Liana Deweese. She did ask me how my horses were bred, but not until they were in her barn. I don't know if she trains for futurities anymore or not, but if not, I feel sure she can point you the right direction.
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
 
| Sounds to me that they only take "easy" horses that will make them look good. Many trainers ride enough horses that they can pick and choose. I do however appreciate my trainer telling me that the horse has no talent rather than just taking my money. At least she does give them a try. |
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Elvis has left the building!
Posts: 2514
| I can't remember the horse's name but it was Royal Silver King or Silver Royal King or something like that. He didn't have the hot blood lines at the time and no cutting trainer would take him. Owner was from Gladewater Texas. Finally got Jody Galen to take him who at the time was big in Western Pleasure. Jody took him all the way to the Cutting Futurity and WON it. Awesome video - horse was working on his knees. Lot of humbled cutting trainers after that! LOL But they all denied him for the same reason........bloodlines.
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I don't know much about futurities or who could help you but I hate when people are like that about bloodlines...I would at least give the horse a shot at it before saying it wasn't going to cut it. My old guys bloodlines were completely filled with top western pleasure and halter horses and he was the fastest horse I've ever been on and we were in the 1D all the way up until he died. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| And this is why XY&Z brand horses are winning a lot of futurities and open races, its all the trainers will work with. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Training Futurity colts is a whole different game. Many people who haven't done it may tend to think that it's just like training any barrel horse, but it's not. The Futurity world is tough, very competitive and incredibly fickle. A top Futurity trainer knows which type of horses work in their program. For some, that may mean that they steer clear of a certain bloodline. This may be because they don't think they have enough pedigree to perform, but it may also be because they know that certain bloodlines don't hold up in their program, or they might just not get along with certain lines.
It's so hard to have these 3 year olds ready to go and go hard come December. They have to hold up to being "nailed to the cross". Even the ones who take to it naturally get pressured much harder than your average Open horse. Some lines just aren't known for maturing as quickly as others. Some don't fire as soon. Some will get frazzled by the pressure of having to train "against the calendar". These are all things that a Futurity trainer must consider before taking one on. Let's face it, no matter how successful a trainer is, one too many colts that just "don't make it" can change people's perspectives pretty quickly. |
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| Consider those trainers to be honest !! ..
It is much better than having a trainer load his barn for the day money and if your horse ever gets ridden will be by a punkin headed kid without a brain .... while the trainer rides horses that he/she has a 50% or better winnings agreement plus training fees, mileage and expenses ....
I have an exceptionally bred filly that I scared at least 10 "trainers" to death when I asked how many rides per week WILL YOU BE GIVING HER and what do you expect a young horse to be doing in 30 days, 60 days and 90 days ....
I never got a good answer since they had already bragged about being gone to barrel events from Thursdays thru Sundays .... and acted irritated that I would expect them to train my filly themselves .... IMO... at $900/month the trainer better be the one riding my horses!!
I will be turning her into a broodmare anyday now ... if this weather will settle down so my mares will start some normal cycles ..... off to the stud farm she goes!!
GOOD LUCK ON FINDING YOU A TRAINER !!!
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-04-16 3:30 AM
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
Location: WYOMING | Its the trainers livelihood and if they dont like a certain bloodline the cudos for them for not taking your horse... now they could have explained and not blew you off... but if they explained most people would have been offended anyway.
I had a colt once that a certain futurity trainer had won tons on with another by the same stallion. Mine had a better dam line. I triend to sell them my colt. That trainer just laughed and said their colt was hard and they were doing everyting they knew how to keep it from not unraveling for one more race. Said they would never touch anything by that stallion again. Too hot, too fragile. Guess what.. they were right. My colt did sell and it was reported back to me over time that she was hot, fragile and just never held together for more than one run a weekend.
Perhaps they did you a favor and you can find a trainer that has the time to invest into your horse. Might not have the big name but might just be a better fit.
Edited by geronabean 2014-04-16 8:18 AM
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1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
Location: Southeast, Texas | We still have three trainers out of our top four to consider. He hasn't been written off by everyone. [=
I definitely was not playing "poor me, mean trainer" I have just never had this happen before so it was a little bit of a shock. Especially to write a horse off knowing nothing other than what's printed on paper. I think it was a double whammy for me since this trainer is hauling a similarly bred horse that is doing well. I thought it would be a great match! That's what I get for thinking, huh?
I'm not one of those owners with unrealistic expectations. If I didn't think our horse had a shot at being competitive, I would not be willing to shell out $1000 a month for a years worth (or longer) of Futurity training. I appreciate a trainer who is up front and will tell me, without the sugar coating, your horse is ready/needs to wait until the next year/just doesn't have it. I would be accepting to all of the above, as long as the horse got a true chance to prove what it could do.
Andy- You're right, this futurity stuff is NOT what I'm used too! It's definitely not for the faint of heart! This is the very first time I've ever attempted to get one ready for futurities, so it's all new to me! You should just come to Texas and work him for me! [= Please! Hehe!
BarrelHorseUSA- Did your filly ever get a chance to run? I agree, the trainer is being honest, and that in itself is admirable. We will find the right spot for him, I'm sure. (And determined!)
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | geronabean - 2014-04-16 7:16 AM Its the trainers livelihood and if they dont like a certain bloodline the cudos for them for not taking your horse... now they could have explained and not blew you off... but if they explained most people would have been offended anyway.
I had a colt once that a certain futurity trainer had won tons on with another by the same stallion. Mine had a better dam line. I triend to sell them my colt. That trainer just laughed and said their colt was hard and they were doing everyting they knew how to keep it from not unraveling for one more race. Said they would never touch anything by that stallion again. Too hot, too fragile. Guess what.. they were right. My colt did sell and it was reported back to me over time that she was hot, fragile and just never held together for more than one run a weekend.
Perhaps they did you a favor and you can find a trainer that has the time to invest into your horse. Might not have the big name but might just be a better fit.
Didn't have time to post the other day, but just wanted to say your PA filly looks awesome! Nice job, Bean, as always! She's the PA Pinto....I like it!  |
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1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
Location: Southeast, Texas | Herbie - 2014-04-16 8:55 AM
geronabean - 2014-04-16 7:16 AM Its the trainers livelihood and if they dont like a certain bloodline the cudos for them for not taking your horse... now they could have explained and not blew you off... but if they explained most people would have been offended anyway.
I had a colt once that a certain futurity trainer had won tons on with another by the same stallion. Mine had a better dam line. I triend to sell them my colt. That trainer just laughed and said their colt was hard and they were doing everyting they knew how to keep it from not unraveling for one more race. Said they would never touch anything by that stallion again. Too hot, too fragile. Guess what.. they were right. My colt did sell and it was reported back to me over time that she was hot, fragile and just never held together for more than one run a weekend.
Perhaps they did you a favor and you can find a trainer that has the time to invest into your horse. Might not have the big name but might just be a better fit.
Didn't have time to post the other day, but just wanted to say your PA filly looks awesome! Nice job, Bean, as always! She's the PA Pinto....I like it!
If none of my barrel horse people work out, make him a racer for me Herbie!! [= (it's another excuse to come visit!) |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
Location: WYOMING | Herbie - 2014-04-16 9:55 AM geronabean - 2014-04-16 7:16 AM Its the trainers livelihood and if they dont like a certain bloodline the cudos for them for not taking your horse... now they could have explained and not blew you off... but if they explained most people would have been offended anyway.
I had a colt once that a certain futurity trainer had won tons on with another by the same stallion. Mine had a better dam line. I triend to sell them my colt. That trainer just laughed and said their colt was hard and they were doing everyting they knew how to keep it from not unraveling for one more race. Said they would never touch anything by that stallion again. Too hot, too fragile. Guess what.. they were right. My colt did sell and it was reported back to me over time that she was hot, fragile and just never held together for more than one run a weekend.
Perhaps they did you a favor and you can find a trainer that has the time to invest into your horse. Might not have the big name but might just be a better fit. Didn't have time to post the other day, but just wanted to say your PA filly looks awesome! Nice job, Bean, as always! She's the PA Pinto....I like it!
THANKS SO MUCH!!!!!!   |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 907
Location: a secret | In anticpation of wanitng to jump on the futurity band wagon. Here is what I did, I picked a trainer that I liked I spent lots of time talking and listening to him about his style expecatations and preferences. At first I had a reaction similair to yours. I thought gosh is everyone this selective? However, together we looked at lots of colts we decided together what to purchase. He had his expectations and I had mine we met in the middle. I am happy with what we decided on. I found it important that your trainer has to like and beleive they have a chance in order to swing their leg over your horse. It is no different open or futurity, everybody wants to ride a winner but futurity trainers have a small window of opportunity and few cut it. I have considered myself lucky to be educated of some of the have have nots in the futurity world instead of taking my money and telling me anything I want to hear. Keep an open mind. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | ABroussard - 2014-04-16 9:07 AM Herbie - 2014-04-16 8:55 AM geronabean - 2014-04-16 7:16 AM Its the trainers livelihood and if they dont like a certain bloodline the cudos for them for not taking your horse... now they could have explained and not blew you off... but if they explained most people would have been offended anyway.
I had a colt once that a certain futurity trainer had won tons on with another by the same stallion. Mine had a better dam line. I triend to sell them my colt. That trainer just laughed and said their colt was hard and they were doing everyting they knew how to keep it from not unraveling for one more race. Said they would never touch anything by that stallion again. Too hot, too fragile. Guess what.. they were right. My colt did sell and it was reported back to me over time that she was hot, fragile and just never held together for more than one run a weekend.
Perhaps they did you a favor and you can find a trainer that has the time to invest into your horse. Might not have the big name but might just be a better fit. Didn't have time to post the other day, but just wanted to say your PA filly looks awesome! Nice job, Bean, as always! She's the PA Pinto....I like it! If none of my barrel horse people work out, make him a racer for me Herbie!! [= (it's another excuse to come visit! )
You'd probably have better luck with total performance in the racing department and me in the barrel horse department, but either way it's a reason to visit! I'll have to send you an updated video of the colt we ran last year; he's coming along nicely for what little i've done with him.
PS, I heard about Jolene and i'm really sorry. Hugs to you!  |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | When bloodlines don't make the cut put the papers under the saddle! |
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1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
Location: Southeast, Texas | Thank you! This year certainly got off to a rough start! We miss her, she was a sweet thing! But, if it hadn't happened the way it did we wouldn't have gotten the colt we have now.. So, God had a bigger plan I suppose. [= |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | ABroussard - 2014-04-16 1:23 PM Thank you! This year certainly got off to a rough start! We miss her, she was a sweet thing! But, if it hadn't happened the way it did we wouldn't have gotten the colt we have now.. So, God had a bigger plan I suppose. [=
HE always does!   I wish you the best of luck with him!!!! |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| But the trainers like to to have a great handle like a cutting or a reiner handle, not just walk trot canter by you backyard person, and when you have handle put on that person can tell you of they are fragile, or hot, etc. That might help you get in. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | WrapSnap - 2014-04-16 1:27 AM Training Futurity colts is a whole different game. Many people who haven't done it may tend to think that it's just like training any barrel horse, but it's not. The Futurity world is tough, very competitive and incredibly fickle. A top Futurity trainer knows which type of horses work in their program. For some, that may mean that they steer clear of a certain bloodline. This may be because they don't think they have enough pedigree to perform, but it may also be because they know that certain bloodlines don't hold up in their program, or they might just not get along with certain lines. It's so hard to have these 3 year olds ready to go and go hard come December. They have to hold up to being "nailed to the cross". Even the ones who take to it naturally get pressured much harder than your average Open horse. Some lines just aren't known for maturing as quickly as others. Some don't fire as soon. Some will get frazzled by the pressure of having to train "against the calendar". These are all things that a Futurity trainer must consider before taking one on. Let's face it, no matter how successful a trainer is, one too many colts that just "don't make it" can change people's perspectives pretty quickly.
agree |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I bought a nice mare about 8 years ago she was a 4year old sent to a top furtity trailener that told this person that she was not broke enough nitmthat she wasnot good enough, they coukd have sent her to someone for 45 day and sent her back she was a nice mare great bloodlines i bought her cheap, they wher so discussed cause they brought her hime and went to the barrels and she did not work out. Bought her in the fall they wher discussed enough theymturned her in a run and let her get race horse thin. I brought her home and started riding and feeding her she would pull your arms off i put draw reins on her she broke em she was almost 5 mever been taught to give or really use her body i fought with her as she broke my leqther draw reins the second day and when i put any pressure she would lounge and jump like i have never seen before, went and got some nylon rope made a set of draw reins and it was about 3 months before i could get on her and she would only fight for ten, minutes never seen a horse with that much fight but after that imhad her so light that i would knock barrel down. Sold her about 6 months later did not even advertise her she was nice enough people started calling me she was 16 hands and was an antheletic mare and pretty too. The lady who bought her was in her 60s and she was win 4 or 5 saddles and up intel the last year she the lady hurt her shoulder ans she does not do slow work that mare still lays down a nice run with no maintance. A foundation is invaluable. |
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When bloodlines don't "make the cut"