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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 433
 
Location: The Lone Star State | I am going to breed my mare next year and it will be her first foal. She is very proven so i dont mind spending the money to breed her to a top stallion BUT i have been told by several people not to spend a lot of money her maiden year because the foal might be small and i dont know how she will do. Do you agree? Should i pick a lower stallion her first year then next time breed to what i really want?? I have looked at endless stallion and narrowed down to a couple but i just dont know which way to go with this i am looking at firewater to fame which i am sure his fee will go up next year and streakin ta fame as my top choices so far. Would like some help please thanks! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| I don't know how true that is, had a 14.2 cutting mare, her first foal ended up being 15.2 the second foal was 14.3.
Had another mare whose first was huge, and her second was a shrimp. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
 
Location: Bandera, TX | Breed to the best stallion that you can. Yes, some babies are born smaller in maiden mares and some are not. I have a maiden baby out of a Frenchman Guy/Mystic Eye mare by Woodbridge that was born huge. Could easily go to the weaning class at our tough AQHA circuit shows.
My other maiden well, she had a smaller foal but he is big in try and can out run the foals that were born huge and three weeks older than he.
I always breed to a stallion that can "help my mare" and something that I would want to buy. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | We started our program out yrs ago with all maiden mares but one and every one of them had foals just as nice as they did in later yrs. I think that is an old wives tale. For stallions for my own mares I really like Cartel Sucess, Triple Vodka and Jess Jones. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 300
| Something to consider....I have been trying to breed my "maiden" mare for 3 years this year. I go back and forth between taking a loss on the stud fee or finding another mare. I don't know if vets will do this off the bat but consider a culture and a uterine biopsy which can help tell the probability of carrying a foal to term before you make an investment? I am doing a biopsy now this year before breeding her to see if it is even worth it. Wish I would have known what I was going to go through these last couple of years because I would have done it to begin with. |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| ChicksInferno - 2014-04-17 11:21 AM Something to consider....I have been trying to breed my "maiden" mare for 3 years this year. I go back and forth between taking a loss on the stud fee or finding another mare. I don't know if vets will do this off the bat but consider a culture and a uterine biopsy which can help tell the probability of carrying a foal to term before you make an investment? I am doing a biopsy now this year before breeding her to see if it is even worth it. Wish I would have known what I was going to go through these last couple of years because I would have done it to begin with.
A breeding soundness exam before breeding is the best money you can spend, in my opinion.
I usually try to get them looked at a few months before I plan on breeding them, so if they happen to be infected, we can treat it before being under the gun of breeding season.
Some mares are just not good cadidates due to cysts, or condition of uterus, etc.
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| It is true, I am picking a stud for a maiden mare this year, and yes I am staying on the less expensive side. I have the money for a super nice stallion, but I would sure hate for her to have her first foal and kick at it, or not want it. The first foals are smaller from what I've herd from people who make a living breeding. |
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| Also firewater ta fame is sold out, they will not take anymore contracts I tried that. |
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | My maiden mare had the biggest out of all of my mares last year... It's a crapshoot on size.
This is him earlier this winter.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151890730056536&set=a.4336...
And this was him the day he was born. He was inches above the rest from day 1 and my second youngest colt is 3 weeks older then him. He was the youngest.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151398241551536&set=a.4336... |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| My mare's first foal is a tank and at 6 years old he's all of 15.3 at least. She is big herself though at 16.1 and having said that the stallion was maybe 14.2. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 300
| bennie1 - 2014-04-17 11:27 AM
ChicksInferno - 2014-04-17 11:21 AM Something to consider....I have been trying to breed my "maiden" mare for 3 years this year. I go back and forth between taking a loss on the stud fee or finding another mare. I don't know if vets will do this off the bat but consider a culture and a uterine biopsy which can help tell the probability of carrying a foal to term before you make an investment? I am doing a biopsy now this year before breeding her to see if it is even worth it. Wish I would have known what I was going to go through these last couple of years because I would have done it to begin with.
A breeding soundness exam before breeding is the best money you can spend, in my opinion.
I usually try to get them looked at a few months before I plan on breeding them, so if they happen to be infected, we can treat it before being under the gun of breeding season.
Some mares are just not good cadidates due to cysts, or condition of uterus, etc.
I sure wish I would have been told this in the beginning. I have spent thousands of dollars not including the stud fee trying to breed her. And what does a breeding soundness exam cost? Peanuts compared to what I have already spent. I have used 3 different vets in this process, all knew she was maiden, age, etc. Not one told me to do a breeding soundness exam :( |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Several years ago I had a vet tell me that there was some research done on foal size. Basically a foal will get as big as the mare's uterus can carry. So a maiden mare is going to have a tighter/smaller uterus than that of a mare who has already carried a foal. Regardless of the size at birth, if a young horse is properly fed and cared for it will grow to the size that it is genetically supposed to.
I do see the point of not knowing whether a mare will actually care for a foal or not. I've foaled out a couple of maiden mares, and the mothering instinct was just there. However, I've heard horror stories about maiden mares trying to kill their foals as soon as they are born, or refusing to allow the foal to nurse.
My thoughts, if you're going to spend the time and money to get a foal on the ground, you might as well breed for exactly what you want. It takes a lot of time to get a colt to riding/competition age. |
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Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| ChicksInferno - 2014-04-17 1:01 PM bennie1 - 2014-04-17 11:27 AM ChicksInferno - 2014-04-17 11:21 AM Something to consider....I have been trying to breed my "maiden" mare for 3 years this year. I go back and forth between taking a loss on the stud fee or finding another mare. I don't know if vets will do this off the bat but consider a culture and a uterine biopsy which can help tell the probability of carrying a foal to term before you make an investment? I am doing a biopsy now this year before breeding her to see if it is even worth it. Wish I would have known what I was going to go through these last couple of years because I would have done it to begin with. A breeding soundness exam before breeding is the best money you can spend, in my opinion.
I usually try to get them looked at a few months before I plan on breeding them, so if they happen to be infected, we can treat it before being under the gun of breeding season.
Some mares are just not good cadidates due to cysts, or condition of uterus, etc.
I sure wish I would have been told this in the beginning. I have spent thousands of dollars not including the stud fee trying to breed her. And what does a breeding soundness exam cost? Peanuts compared to what I have already spent. I have used 3 different vets in this process, all knew she was maiden, age, etc. Not one told me to do a breeding soundness exam : (
I'm sorry to hear that :( I wish vets would suggest it.
The breeding exam can't catch everything. My friend is having a weird situation with her maiden mare right now. Did breeding exam, decided to breed....her mare is growing multiple follicles. Had one that was a 40 2 weeks ago...then grew another one on same ovary....then had one show up on the other ovary.
The second follicle to appear, turned out to look "non-ovulatory" and the original follicle is regressing after getting to a 50.
Now the 3rd follicle...the one on the other ovary, is a 52!....So, the vet is giving her a shot of HCG to to try and get all these weird follicles to go away or ovulate or something! Then he will short cycle her and see what the next cycle brings....
Breeding can be challenging! |
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | If your going to go through the trouble of breeding her, you better be sure the cross is exactly what you want. This could be the only foal you ever get from her and then you would regret not picking a better stallion. I bred my 15 year old maiden mare to First Down French last year and she foaled out a perfect, good sized filly 3 weeks ago. I like Firewater Ta Fame and Streaking Ta Fame. Both are very nice stallions. I suggest also taking a look at Lions Share of Fame. Good luck! |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Breed to the best you can afford. I don't believe that first foals are any less of a horse than subsequent foals. I can see maybe being a bit smaller as far as birth weight, but they should be able to catch up fine.
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | casualdust07 - 2014-04-17 5:07 PM Breed to the best you can afford. I don't believe that first foals are any less of a horse than subsequent foals. I can see maybe being a bit smaller as far as birth weight, but they should be able to catch up fine.
I would have to agree with this :) |
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 Heeler Hoarder
Posts: 2067
| I would breed to exactly what you want, the stud fee is the cheapest part. You are going to have the same $ wise in a foal you are ok with or a foal that you love and just what you wanted. Almost all my mares were maiden when they foaled and all have been great mothers, no problem with small foals either but my mares were fed CORRECTLY their entire pregnancy. You have just as much a chance of something else going wrong as you do the mare not being a good mother IMO. Foal her out at a vet clinic or breeding facility if you are worried about it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Jenbabe - 2014-04-17 1:39 PM
Several years ago I had a vet tell me that there was some research done on foal size. Basically a foal will get as big as the mare's uterus can carry. So a maiden mare is going to have a tighter/smaller uterus than that of a mare who has already carried a foal. Regardless of the size at birth, if a young horse is properly fed and cared for it will grow to the size that it is genetically supposed to.
I do see the point of not knowing whether a mare will actually care for a foal or not. I've foaled out a couple of maiden mares, and the mothering instinct was just there. However, I've heard horror stories about maiden mares trying to kill their foals as soon as they are born, or refusing to allow the foal to nurse.
My thoughts, if you're going to spend the time and money to get a foal on the ground, you might as well breed for exactly what you want. It takes a lot of time to get a colt to riding/competition age.
Yep. My three year old is a 16h maiden baby out of a 15.1 mare. Why risk all that $$ and the life/health of your mare for anything but the exact stallion you'd want a baby from? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 433
Location: The Lone Star State | All very good info! I am going to breed her next year so it seems like it will be forever before i have a baby on the ground! Thanks for all the info! |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| We've had no issues with small or less than nice foals out of our maidens. 1 went on to be a stakes winner, another we have tried to buy back and they refuse to sell because she's so impressive in Mexico, another ran a 93si and 3rd his 1st out a couple of weeks ago and is set up for a solid 2yo year. I could go on, but basically, breed to the best stallion for your mare you can afford. |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | casualdust07 - 2014-04-17 6:07 PM Breed to the best you can afford. I don't believe that first foals are any less of a horse than subsequent foals. I can see maybe being a bit smaller as far as birth weight, but they should be able to catch up fine.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What she said. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 433
Location: The Lone Star State | So I made a decision to breed to Streakin Ta Fame AND I decided to breed her this year instead of waiting till next year. She needed a nice long rest and it will give me time to focus on my 4 year old. So I will keep everyone posted!  |
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Maiden mare and picking a stallion