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| what do you expect them to know after 60 day of training? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1062
Location: Probably On the Road to the Next Barrel Race! | ummm...depends on horse, but generally speaking, if my husband puts 60 days on one, that is 3-5 rides a week, they should break at the poll, flex, move laterally off foot, possibly sidepass, yield the hind and forequarters, reverse arc, have a decent stop, what am I forgetting? oh, catch correct leads on cue. We are not professionals, ie, we don't take in outside horses due to time limitations, BUT...if I didn't get all that in 60 days, I'd find another trainer. I don't know maybe 90 days is more accurate, but in our barn, they are flat broke at 90 days, and always started lightly on the pattern.
Edited by CrossCreek 2014-04-18 11:42 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2685
 
| Usually in 30-40 rides (60 days or less) they will have a very nice handle. Walk, trot, lope both ways. Move off leg, break at poll, good stop, good with leads, move forehand and hind end.
I start ALL of the lots I get in on the ground for at least the first day or two. If they haven't been handled, longer. I've had some take 1 day of ground work and it was under saddle after that and they did great. I also Haagen had ones that have had pretty much no human handling that at 2 weeks are standing tied with a saddle still. |
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | This is my Perks Firewater Flit colt after 60 days with Phil Haugen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FhZb_GpCbE
Edited by Runnin < C > 2014-04-19 12:25 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska |
Not impressed. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
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Are you happy with the job? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| With 60 rides on mine, they know all the buttons at all speeds, have worked at the auction, can open and close gates, have been brake away roped off of.
They also know their head set, are not evading the bit, do not need any head gear to keep their head down, nose in or mouth shut.
After 60 rides they are ready for me to jump on and put onto the pattern without any holes in their foundation. |
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Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job?
Very much so! |
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 Horsey Gene Carrier
Posts: 1888
Location: LaBelle, Florida | I sent my first one out to a trainer (ever) as I no longer bounce when I get ejected/fall off.
Only sent her for 30 day to get the first rides out of the way. I was quite happy with the job that was done on her. Walk, trot, lope, steering and break installed. Not finished by any means but over the first ride jitters.
I rode her at her first weekend clinic with Sandy Gruninger (the Basic Handle) a couple weeks ago and she did great. We did flying lead changes on the second day, not pretty but we did get them done.
It was also the first time the filly had been ridden in a group setting, took her first mini trail ride(around the property) and did everything I asked her to do.
She was a little aprehensive about the group thing on the first day, but was much better the second.
Someone who trains does have more time and can ride one more consistantly for those all important first rides.
Edited by kasaj2000 2014-04-19 6:28 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 5:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I agree with you on this one. The colt is bracey and hollow through his back and stopping on his front end instead of his hind. I also notice how forward the trainers legs are and the only time he has them on the colt is when he kicking him. |
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Location: Down South Mississippi | equussynergy - 2014-04-19 7:10 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 5:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
Yeah my colts are WAY softer than this after 60 days even the not so mature ones. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Here's one with an 11 year old trainer and a 3 year old jockey. She came to our place untouched just 60 days before these videos were made....they got her pretty light 
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=s-ArinK2wfk
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=cMZxFWI6ITE |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM
Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I didn't watch the video, but I can say that I've seen several videos of people bragging on the 30th or so ride, and it makes me sad because these horses are nowhere near where they should be at 30 days or there are things I see the trainer doing that I don't agree with. Unfortunately, a lot of these people have sent their horses off trusting the trainer to do a good job. And usually they are sent off because the owner doesn't know how to start them correctly, so they are pleased with what they get because they don't know any better.
After 30 days I would expect a horse to travel at all gaits and transition up and down at these gaits, stop and back nicely with an elevated shoulder, pivot on the hind and front, move off of leg pressure, flex vertically and laterally, know leads, two track at a walk and maybe trot, etc. In the next 30 days we work on refining all of these things and getting a quicker and lighter response. We also work on other things such as counter arcing, two tracking at all gaits, collection, and lots of other things that I'm sure I'm forgetting! Of course, each horse is an individual so some might pick up things faster or slower than others. We try to get them out to the pasture if we have cattle, haul them to ride at other arenas, etc. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | rachellyn80 - 2014-04-19 10:04 PM Here's one with an 11 year old trainer and a 3 year old jockey. She came to our place untouched just 60 days before these videos were made....they got her pretty light http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=s-ArinK2wfk http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=cMZxFWI6ITE
Here is the live links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMZxFWI6ITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ArinK2wfk
Edited by Nevertooold 2014-04-19 10:55 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM
Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous.
How many 1D horses have you guys trained?
The lady that helps us uses a martingale tp start her colts and she has been winning futurities since the mid 90s on home bred and trained horses then the horses go onto long careers in the opens, one of her 21 year old horses just ran in the 1D at the Bonus Race Finals. Also most of her finished horses run in a hack and she doesnt use spurs or whips, so I guess I dont get the martingale hate.
So if youre trainin 1D caliber horses I might take some of what you say into consideration... |
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 Peecans
| Itsme - 2014-04-19 11:25 PM
HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM
Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous.
How many 1D horses have you guys trained?
The lady that helps us uses a martingale tp start her colts and she has been winning futurities since the mid 90s on home bred and trained horses then the horses go onto long careers in the opens, one of her 21 year old horses just ran in the 1D at the Bonus Race Finals. Also most of her finished horses run in a hack and she doesnt use spurs or whips, so I guess I dont get the martingale hate.
So if youre trainin 1D caliber horses I might take some of what you say into consideration...
What does being a 1D trainer have to do with being a talanted colt starter? |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous.
Ditto... |
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Location: Over by those oil wells, TX | I'm not going to hate on the trainer in the video but I have to agree this isn't how I like a trainer to have one going after 60 days. Agree with the poster who said the colt is hollow in his back, too. I dont see him loping his circles with his ribcage rounded to the circle and through his nose....in fact I call the way he is traveling falling in a circle and to me that softness in the ribs should have been the most important thing he should have taught after 2 weeks and way ahead of anything else like stopping fast or whatever. It kinda of looks like a quik job and I think you might have to go back to walking and trotting to teach him softness through his sides and during forward motion....He missed quite a few steps even tho the colt is traveling in a circle. It's not a correct basic circle body wise.
Edited by hopin4$ 2014-04-20 7:29 AM
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING | moeman17 - 2014-04-19 12:25 AM what do you expect them to know after 60 day of training?
IMO the first 60/90 days is so important, stays with them for life. Its my goal to have a 60 day 2 yr old very comfortable and confident in what I am asking them to do. I dont need fancy or quick or big stops I want smooth, confident reactions. I want wtc straight lines and circles with the nose slightly tipped in. If I ask for break I dont want past verticle and I dont need it for long... its the ease of response I am looking for at this point. I want a melty smooth stop and easy transitions up and down in gaits. I want a smooth easy back but just need a few steps at this point. I want them to begin to move off my indirect rein and leg pressure but again... its the confident response I want. After your trainer builds their confidence in the first 60 its easier to proceed on that foundation.
Edited by geronabean 2014-04-20 8:14 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 357
Location: Florida | Itsme - 2014-04-20 1:25 AM
HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM
Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous.
How many 1D horses have you guys trained?
The lady that helps us uses a martingale tp start her colts and she has been winning futurities since the mid 90s on home bred and trained horses then the horses go onto long careers in the opens, one of her 21 year old horses just ran in the 1D at the Bonus Race Finals. Also most of her finished horses run in a hack and she doesnt use spurs or whips, so I guess I dont get the martingale hate.
So if youre trainin 1D caliber horses I might take some of what you say into consideration...
Why should it matter if they train 1D horses? A broke horse doesn't necessarily mean a fast horse. But a truly nice broke horse does mean a safer horse. |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. |
Your girls are a hoot. You should be a proud mama! |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | della - 2014-04-21 12:58 AM Itsme - 2014-04-19 11:25 PM HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous. .. What does being a 1D trainer have to do with being a talanted colt starter?
If you want a good horse for life, you need a good foundation on them. Barrels is just a pattern, a series of manuvers the horse should know to properly execute the pattern. Smart horse owners/trainers know that the first rides on a young horse are going to stay with them for life. You want to build confidence and softness into your youngster. If they are bullied into doing manuvers (counter arcs, stops, etc.) then chances are you will be dealing with a horse that has built in fear for life. They never get over it. Another trainer might make them better, but it is a hole that is always there.
Your comments show an extreme lack of knowledge of basic horse training. The job of a colt starter is to make whatever horse he/she is riding work to the best of their capablility. You cannot make every horse a 1D horse - they don't all have the speed to be a 1D horse. But a good trainer can break a 4D horse and turn it into a nice, useful horse. Maybe barrels isn't its thing. Maybe it will be a mounted shooting horse, or a champion trail horse. Doesn't matter. If it has the foundation, the horse will be suited for a useful life in some discipline.
Edited by Hollywood's Fan 2014-04-20 9:24 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-20 9:15 AM
della - 2014-04-21 12:58 AM Itsme - 2014-04-19 11:25 PM HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous. .. What does being a 1D trainer have to do with being a talanted colt starter?
If you want a good horse for life, you need a good foundation on them. Barrels is just a pattern, a series of manuvers the horse should know to properly execute the pattern. Smart horse owners/trainers know that the first rides on a young horse are going to stay with them for life. You want to build confidence and softness into your youngster. If they are bullied into doing manuvers (counter arcs, stops, etc.) then chances are you will be dealing with a horse that has built in fear for life. They never get over it. Another trainer might make them better, but it is a hole that is always there.
Your comments show an extreme lack of knowledge of basic horse training. The job of a colt starter is to make whatever horse he/she is riding work to the best of their capablility. You cannot make every horse a 1D horse - they don't all have the speed to be a 1D horse. But a good trainer can break a 4D horse and turn it into a nice, useful horse. Maybe barrels isn't its thing. Maybe it will be a mounted shooting horse, or a champion trail horse. Doesn't matter. If it has the foundation, the horse will be suited for a useful life in some discipline.
Your reading comprehension is lacking...And yes I put faith into someone that breeds her own, starts her own, futurities her own and then keeps those horses winning into their early 20s.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Itsme - 2014-04-20 10:03 AM
Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-20 9:15 AM
della - 2014-04-21 12:58 AM Itsme - 2014-04-19 11:25 PM HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous. .. What does being a 1D trainer have to do with being a talanted colt starter?
If you want a good horse for life, you need a good foundation on them. Barrels is just a pattern, a series of manuvers the horse should know to properly execute the pattern. Smart horse owners/trainers know that the first rides on a young horse are going to stay with them for life. You want to build confidence and softness into your youngster. If they are bullied into doing manuvers (counter arcs, stops, etc.) then chances are you will be dealing with a horse that has built in fear for life. They never get over it. Another trainer might make them better, but it is a hole that is always there.
Your comments show an extreme lack of knowledge of basic horse training. The job of a colt starter is to make whatever horse he/she is riding work to the best of their capablility. You cannot make every horse a 1D horse - they don't all have the speed to be a 1D horse. But a good trainer can break a 4D horse and turn it into a nice, useful horse. Maybe barrels isn't its thing. Maybe it will be a mounted shooting horse, or a champion trail horse. Doesn't matter. If it has the foundation, the horse will be suited for a useful life in some discipline.
Your reading comprehension is lacking...And yes I put faith into someone that breeds her own, starts her own, futurities her own and then keeps those horses winning into their early 20s.
I do not have a hate for German martingales, they have a purpose in certain situations, but not first starting a colt. Personally a trainer that doesn't have to use the training aids German martingale, caveson, I find train a more well rounded horse with no holes in training then someone who uses training aids.
Each person to their own, I personally wouldn't let a trainer use those aids on my colts, I would be looking for a different trainer.
I have trained a few 1d horses, this doesn't make me the all knowing, but I am particular on how I like my horses trained before starting barrels.
Please tell me your name and this trainers name, for the sake of education purposes.
Also I know you have made comments about canadian horses, I am inviting you up for the summer to come run at our jackpots, futurities. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Good grief. No one needs to have a resume full of 1D horses to see the problem with (or identify) a bad foundation. Yes, I have been fortunate enough to have stumbled across some good ones to start and run. But even before that, I made darn sure each horse in my care had the foundation to move on to another discipline if need be, and was just plain pleasant to ride and be around.
I would hope if I posted a video of my 2 year old, if there were big problems, no one would pat me on the hiney and say good job. (Which I can't figure out how to do pics or videos from iPad or Mac... Different thread.) |
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 Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | On the video of he buckskin colt....I think ya'll are too harsh or maybe haven't seen the worst of the worst. Sure it could be better and is card RO. Perfect, but she didn't ask for critiques or opinions. She didn't evens say "here is what 60 days should look like".
She just shared a video is all. I've definitely seen worse.
To the OP.....every single horse is different. I've been on my four year old over a year and he's barely broke.....but then he had a year off because of a broken face. I don't have an arena at home to ride in so what full time trainers can do in sixty days takes me sometimes ninety or more.
I agree at the bare minimum, after sixty days with a full time professional trainer, a horse should be solid enough to jump on and go. Bend, flex, break poll, leads, reverse, arcing etc. but if it's a rank horse that could change |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | geronabean - 2014-04-20 7:48 AM moeman17 - 2014-04-19 12:25 AM what do you expect them to know after 60 day of training? IMO the first 60/90 days is so important, stays with them for life. Its my goal to have a 60 day 2 yr old very comfortable and confident in what I am asking them to do. I dont need fancy or quick or big stops I want smooth, confident reactions. I want wtc straight lines and circles with the nose slightly tipped in. If I ask for break I dont want past verticle and I dont need it for long... its the ease of response I am looking for at this point. I want a melty smooth stop and easy transitions up and down in gaits. I want a smooth easy back but just need a few steps at this point. I want them to begin to move off my indirect rein and leg pressure but again... its the confident response I want. After your trainer builds their confidence in the first 60 its easier to proceed on that foundation.
I like the way this sounds. If I didn't know anything about Julie and if she was a perfect stranger, this would win my vote. Not that I know Geronabean personally, but I've read her posts and watched her videos and read her critiques for about 7 years now and I'm always impressed. If I had to use one word to describe her, "patience" would come to mind. A laundry list of desired maneuvers is nice, and I know she can list them as well, but her temperment as a trainer is obvious, and I think that is the one most important quality. In my opinion being a "barrel racer" would be nice, but certainly not as important as many other qualities. If I lived in Florida, I would feel perfectly comfortable sending a colt to her, sight unseen. |
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Expert
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| cheryl makofka - 2014-04-20 10:42 AM
Itsme - 2014-04-20 10:03 AM
Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-20 9:15 AM
della - 2014-04-21 12:58 AM Itsme - 2014-04-19 11:25 PM HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous. .. What does being a 1D trainer have to do with being a talanted colt starter?
If you want a good horse for life, you need a good foundation on them. Barrels is just a pattern, a series of manuvers the horse should know to properly execute the pattern. Smart horse owners/trainers know that the first rides on a young horse are going to stay with them for life. You want to build confidence and softness into your youngster. If they are bullied into doing manuvers (counter arcs, stops, etc.) then chances are you will be dealing with a horse that has built in fear for life. They never get over it. Another trainer might make them better, but it is a hole that is always there.
Your comments show an extreme lack of knowledge of basic horse training. The job of a colt starter is to make whatever horse he/she is riding work to the best of their capablility. You cannot make every horse a 1D horse - they don't all have the speed to be a 1D horse. But a good trainer can break a 4D horse and turn it into a nice, useful horse. Maybe barrels isn't its thing. Maybe it will be a mounted shooting horse, or a champion trail horse. Doesn't matter. If it has the foundation, the horse will be suited for a useful life in some discipline.
Your reading comprehension is lacking...And yes I put faith into someone that breeds her own, starts her own, futurities her own and then keeps those horses winning into their early 20s.
I do not have a hate for German martingales, they have a purpose in certain situations, but not first starting a colt. Personally a trainer that doesn't have to use the training aids German martingale, caveson, I find train a more well rounded horse with no holes in training then someone who uses training aids.
Each person to their own, I personally wouldn't let a trainer use those aids on my colts, I would be looking for a different trainer.
I have trained a few 1d horses, this doesn't make me the all knowing, but I am particular on how I like my horses trained before starting barrels.
Please tell me your name and this trainers name, for the sake of education purposes.
Also I know you have made comments about canadian horses, I am inviting you up for the summer to come run at our jackpots, futurities.
Well a person that raised a futurity winning stud and multiple futurity winning mares that then went on to produce futurity winning colts out of them disagrees with you. But hey, you have patterned a 1d horse or two. Im sorry but actions speak louder than internet drivel...
As for her name Im sure she doesnt want her name thrown around the internet, especially by me, Ill just let her keep working hard collecting your money. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Itsme, the person you describe sounds like an exceptional trainer. I think a lot of people have seen too many 4-5 yr olds have a great futurity career, and then fizzle out, for a variety of reasons, chief among them the training methods combined with pushing them too hard, too young. Of course there are exceptions, but my impression is that most horses that do well in futurities simply don't hold up over the long haul. Most people here are interested in that horse that will last well into their teens, at least, and remain very competitive at a high level. If the trainer you describe has a record of producing a lot of futurity winners that hold up over the long haul, then who can argue with success? I don't consider what others are saying to be "drivel", though. A lot of it makes sense to me. |
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Expert
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| geronabean - 2014-04-20 8:48 AM moeman17 - 2014-04-19 12:25 AM what do you expect them to know after 60 day of training? IMO the first 60/90 days is so important, stays with them for life. Its my goal to have a 60 day 2 yr old very comfortable and confident in what I am asking them to do. I dont need fancy or quick or big stops I want smooth, confident reactions. I want wtc straight lines and circles with the nose slightly tipped in. If I ask for break I dont want past verticle and I dont need it for long... its the ease of response I am looking for at this point. I want a melty smooth stop and easy transitions up and down in gaits. I want a smooth easy back but just need a few steps at this point. I want them to begin to move off my indirect rein and leg pressure but again... its the confident response I want. After your trainer builds their confidence in the first 60 its easier to proceed on that foundation.
Wanted to add - just because you're colt isn't doing "XYZ" after 60 days doesn't mean it's a bad horse OR a bad trainer. I have a palomino mare at my colt starter right now. She has about 50 days on her and she's no wherr close to coming home yet. My trainer has gone through the exact same steps with her as the other colts but she's a way different horse. She has tons more spit fire to her and is chock full of athletic ability and grit. She isn't "easy" but she's so full of talent I'll gladly spend the extra money for another 30-60 days. Sometimes the extra grit and toughness makes it more challenging but that's usually what separates the good ones from the great ones.
Edited by roanrider 2014-04-20 3:23 PM
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | I couldn't ride for many of you. I don't want my 2 yo ridden that hard, the first 60 days, to be able to do what many of you are saying. I've been accused of being in grandma mode, but I don't put that much pressure on my babies. Mine would most closely resemble geronabean's description. With probably still a little less emphasis on head position.
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Chelsea didnt put up her video to get beat up she was just posting for the OP. The op was just asking a question and she was just showing what her young horse is doing. I dont agree with some trainers ways myself, but this is not suppost to be about bashing someone that was trying to answer a question.  |
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 Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | Southtxponygirl - 2014-04-20 2:05 PM Chelsea didnt put up her video to get beat up she was just posting for the OP. The op was just asking a question and she was just showing what her young horse is doing. I dont agree with some trainers ways myself, but this is not suppost to be about bashing someone that was trying to answer a question.
While I do agree with you, but if you put a video on here you are going to get the good, bad and ugly. And that video does show what I, personally, don't want in a colt with 60 days on it. |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-20 9:15 AM
della - 2014-04-21 12:58 AM Itsme - 2014-04-19 11:25 PM HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous. .. What does being a 1D trainer have to do with being a talanted colt starter?
If you want a good horse for life, you need a good foundation on them. Barrels is just a pattern, a series of manuvers the horse should know to properly execute the pattern. Smart horse owners/trainers know that the first rides on a young horse are going to stay with them for life. You want to build confidence and softness into your youngster. If they are bullied into doing manuvers (counter arcs, stops, etc.) then chances are you will be dealing with a horse that has built in fear for life. They never get over it. Another trainer might make them better, but it is a hole that is always there.
Your comments show an extreme lack of knowledge of basic horse training. The job of a colt starter is to make whatever horse he/she is riding work to the best of their capablility. You cannot make every horse a 1D horse - they don't all have the speed to be a 1D horse. But a good trainer can break a 4D horse and turn it into a nice, useful horse. Maybe barrels isn't its thing. Maybe it will be a mounted shooting horse, or a champion trail horse. Doesn't matter. If it has the foundation, the horse will be suited for a useful life in some discipline.
A-M-E-N!! 
I'm not going to comment on the video as this is not what this thread is about. However, my husband used to start colts/ train for a living. He only does outside horses occasionally now and only for people who we know personally.
I would say a lot depends on the horse. My husband has worked with horses that only had a few rides after 60 days (granted a lot of these were problem horses that needed EXTENSIVE ground work due to dangerous behavioral issues). Others, are going really well at 60 days.Both leads, good soft stop, correct back up, leg yielding, and start on side passing, pivots, spins etc. He usually doesn't move them up to a curb until after 90 days and does not use any type of training device until after the first 60 days when he is fine tuning headset, etc. once they have a very good grasp on the basics if necessary. Anyway, that's my two cents and what I would expect from a normal, physically able, and willing horse. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | bccanchaser16 - 2014-04-20 4:42 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-04-20 2:05 PM Chelsea didnt put up her video to get beat up she was just posting for the OP. The op was just asking a question and she was just showing what her young horse is doing. I dont agree with some trainers ways myself, but this is not suppost to be about bashing someone that was trying to answer a question. While I do agree with you, but if you put a video on here you are going to get the good, bad and ugly. And that video does show what I, personally, don't want in a colt with 60 days on it.
Very true, and I understand what you are saying  |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Totally agree with you ozcancrasher
Edited by GLP 2014-04-20 5:27 PM
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Wow! I am totally surprised that everyone is expecting so much after just 60 days... So much depends on what level the horse is at when you drop him off at the trainer. Personally, I start my own and they are pretty much broke before I ever climb on. I can get a lot done in 60 days of riding, but like I said, they are well started before that first ride.
My horses don't even see a barrel pattern their first year of riding. I might walk or trot them around a barrel occasionally, but never have them going through the pattern that soon after starting them. But to each their own I guess.
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING |  Thank you Hotbearlvr for the very kind words! |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas |
Heck ya! I'd send those two one to start!!! Better hands already than most out there.....LOVED the videos! |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| HotbearLVR - 2014-04-20 2:48 PM
Itsme, the person you describe sounds like an exceptional trainer. I think a lot of people have seen too many 4-5 yr olds have a great futurity career, and then fizzle out, for a variety of reasons, chief among them the training methods combined with pushing them too hard, too young. Of course there are exceptions, but my impression is that most horses that do well in futurities simply don't hold up over the long haul. Most people here are interested in that horse that will last well into their teens, at least, and remain very competitive at a high level. If the trainer you describe has a record of producing a lot of futurity winners that hold up over the long haul, then who can argue with success? I don't consider what others are saying to be "drivel", though. A lot of it makes sense to me.
Its all in good fun.
Some people throw their weight around and talk big on here but im sure they under perform in the arena, and if they feel its necessary to down talk to others ill dish it out a little too. |
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 Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | I just went with a friend to visit her 2-year old at a trainer in Vinita, Oklahoma. Prior, the gelding had very good ground manners and had been saddled and walked around a round pen 10 times, in a halter. After three weeks, her colt was soft in the face, stopped/changed direction without resistance; willingly transitioned walk-trot and trot-walk; transitioned to canter after about 1 circle or less of "speed trotting" - nose was to inside and gelding had beginnings of a good bend to outside with his ribcage; 360-degree sow pivot on hind lg in both directions; backed well, but with some head tossing; stood still at halt and wile being mounted/unmounted; relaxed expression with decent headset and visible lack of tension in back and neck; excellent reach from behind. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| HAHA...Stupid puter. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| Where they are at 60 rides is really a tough question. Everyone wants something different. They might be rode out in the pasture 50 of 60 days and not have the drill work but sure have good experience.
Some might seem really behind after 30 or 60 days but are actually really set up to be WAY ahead after 45 or 70 rides due to the foundation and building blocks in place.
I'm not a colt starter and the gentleman in the video has a pretty positve reputation. I'm not saying I could do anywhere near what he has done, just observing that when I watched that it wasn't what I was expecting
I'd also say that arguing that you don't know much about starting colts unless you've trained successful 1d horses is kind of like saying Michael Jordan wasn't good at basketabll because he isn't good at painting the lines on the court. Both things are real necassary but have little to do with each other. I'd even venture a guess that the vast majority of successful barrel trainers don't start many colts at all. |
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Member
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| Frenchie - 2014-04-20 9:45 PM
Where they are at 60 rides is really a tough question. Everyone wants something different. They might be rode out in the pasture 50 of 60 days and not have the drill work but sure have good experience.
Some might seem really behind after 30 or 60 days but are actually really set up to be WAY ahead after 45 or 70 rides due to the foundation and building blocks in place.
I'm not a colt starter and the gentleman in the video has a pretty positve reputation. I'm not saying I could do anywhere near what he has done, just observing that when I watched that it wasn't what I was expecting
I'd also say that arguing that you don't know much about starting colts unless you've trained successful 1d horses is kind of like saying Michael Jordan wasn't good at basketabll because he isn't good at painting the lines on the court. Both things are real necassary but have little to do with each other. I'd even venture a guess that the vast majority of successful barrel trainers don't start many colts at all.
Well said! |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Itsme - 2014-04-20 9:29 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-20 2:48 PM Itsme, the person you describe sounds like an exceptional trainer. I think a lot of people have seen too many 4-5 yr olds have a great futurity career, and then fizzle out, for a variety of reasons, chief among them the training methods combined with pushing them too hard, too young. Of course there are exceptions, but my impression is that most horses that do well in futurities simply don't hold up over the long haul. Most people here are interested in that horse that will last well into their teens, at least, and remain very competitive at a high level. If the trainer you describe has a record of producing a lot of futurity winners that hold up over the long haul, then who can argue with success? I don't consider what others are saying to be "drivel", though. A lot of it makes sense to me. Its all in good fun. Some people throw their weight around and talk big on here but im sure they under perform in the arena, and if they feel its necessary to down talk to others ill dish it out a little too.
We rarely have used them in the first 60 days but I won't say that we have never used them. IMO, what it boils down to is the CORRECT use of the german martingale.
That being said.....ITSME....you very seldom add much to the discussion other than trying to stir up crap.....
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 Special Somebody
Posts: 3951
Location: Finally horseback again.... |
They are awesome!!!
And ummm, Momma, why are you up and around??
Thought you were on house arrest??
Hows the babies doing?
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Location: Over by those oil wells, TX | Canchasr1 - 2014-04-21 9:28 AM
They are awesome!!!
And ummm, Momma, why are you up and around??
Thought you were on house arrest??
Hows the babies doing?
Soooo cute! Can't wait 'il my granddaughter can have fun like that!! Congrats! |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Herbie - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM
Heck ya! I'd send those two one to start!!! Better hands already than most out there.....LOVED the videos!
Agreed!! Good job young ladies :) |
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Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | Herbie - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM Heck ya! I'd send those two one to start!!! Better hands already than most out there.....LOVED the videos!
Rach.... |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| I just sent one to a new guy. After a week and half he had her loping in circles. She already knew how to flex and lope on the correct lead before she ever went to the trainer. |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| GoGaited - 2014-04-19 1:52 PM Not impressed.
Care to share a video of yours? |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Man, I wish I had a video of mine to show. I haven't seen her yet, but dude says he's opening gates with Man Eater....that alone is super impressive to me....I hate having to get off of a horse to open a gate. I'm hoping he's got her carrying the beer cooler too.
Edited by LRQHS 2014-04-21 10:28 AM
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | LRQHS - 2014-04-21 10:26 AM Man, I wish I had a video of mine to show. I haven't seen her yet, but dude says he's opening gates with Man Eater....that alone is super impressive to me....I hate having to get off of a horse to open a gate. I'm hoping he's got her carrying the beer cooler too.
When are you going to go see her???? Dang....I send you video and I get nothing back from you. It's give, give, give from me and I get nothing back. This relationship is like 90/10....and i'm getting the 10! BLAHAHAHA 
That is awesome and I can't wait to see her go! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| ozcancrasher13 - 2014-04-20 3:24 PM
I couldn't ride for many of you. I don't want my 2 yo ridden that hard, the first 60 days, to be able to do what many of you are saying. I've been accused of being in grandma mode, but I don't put that much pressure on my babies. Mine would most closely resemble geronabean's description. With probably still a little less emphasis on head position.
I'm with you! I want them to last. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Herbie - 2014-04-21 10:37 AM LRQHS - 2014-04-21 10:26 AM Man, I wish I had a video of mine to show. I haven't seen her yet, but dude says he's opening gates with Man Eater....that alone is super impressive to me....I hate having to get off of a horse to open a gate. I'm hoping he's got her carrying the beer cooler too. When are you going to go see her???? Dang....I send you video and I get nothing back from you. It's give, give, give from me and I get nothing back. This relationship is like 90/10....and i'm getting the 10! BLAHAHAHA
That is awesome and I can't wait to see her go!
I have PLENTY of high quality videos on FACEBOOK!
I see her this weekend for sure, if not sooner. I'm going to ride her and if she doesn't kill me, I am bringing her home :) |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | LRQHS - 2014-04-21 11:04 AM Herbie - 2014-04-21 10:37 AM LRQHS - 2014-04-21 10:26 AM Man, I wish I had a video of mine to show. I haven't seen her yet, but dude says he's opening gates with Man Eater....that alone is super impressive to me....I hate having to get off of a horse to open a gate. I'm hoping he's got her carrying the beer cooler too. When are you going to go see her???? Dang....I send you video and I get nothing back from you. It's give, give, give from me and I get nothing back. This relationship is like 90/10....and i'm getting the 10! BLAHAHAHA
That is awesome and I can't wait to see her go!
I see her this weekend for sure, if not sooner. I'm going to ride her and if she doesn't kill me, I am bringing her home :)
See what I mean....no compromise. I say youtube, you say facebook. Ugh...tomAtoes, tomotoes....
That's pretty exciting! Better drop the Rail Ditch off when you pick the Man Eater up! |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Herbie - 2014-04-21 11:08 AM LRQHS - 2014-04-21 11:04 AM Herbie - 2014-04-21 10:37 AM LRQHS - 2014-04-21 10:26 AM Man, I wish I had a video of mine to show. I haven't seen her yet, but dude says he's opening gates with Man Eater....that alone is super impressive to me....I hate having to get off of a horse to open a gate. I'm hoping he's got her carrying the beer cooler too. When are you going to go see her???? Dang....I send you video and I get nothing back from you. It's give, give, give from me and I get nothing back. This relationship is like 90/10....and i'm getting the 10! BLAHAHAHA
That is awesome and I can't wait to see her go!
I see her this weekend for sure, if not sooner. I'm going to ride her and if she doesn't kill me, I am bringing her home :)
That's pretty exciting! Better drop the Rail Ditch off when you pick the Man Eater up!
I CAN'T FIGURE THE BLASTED YOUTUBE OUT!!!!
You would love my original videos. I am an artiste :) |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 700
Location: Driving, Grooming, or Saddling for a Kid! | Ok i have another twist....where do you expect a 5 yr old off the track that stand s to be saddled with a western saddle and doesnt buck to be after 60 days? |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| Frenchie - 2014-04-20 10:45 PM Where they are at 60 rides is really a tough question. Everyone wants something different. They might be rode out in the pasture 50 of 60 days and not have the drill work but sure have good experience.
Some might seem really behind after 30 or 60 days but are actually really set up to be WAY ahead after 45 or 70 rides due to the foundation and building blocks in place.
I'm not a colt starter and the gentleman in the video has a pretty positve reputation. I'm not saying I could do anywhere near what he has done, just observing that when I watched that it wasn't what I was expecting
I'd also say that arguing that you don't know much about starting colts unless you've trained successful 1d horses is kind of like saying Michael Jordan wasn't good at basketabll because he isn't good at painting the lines on the court. Both things are real necassary but have little to do with each other. I'd even venture a guess that the vast majority of successful barrel trainers don't start many colts at all.
This is spot on!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM
I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
I like him! Carries himself well. I like how he searches for the contact instead of being afraid of it. Nice and quite! Whoever started him did a fantastic job in my opinion! |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | roanrider - 2014-04-21 1:37 PM I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
I see no reason to wear a helmet... that was a great video. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
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Thank you for sharing your video with everyone!
It is okay for people to give healthy criticism, but please be kind while you do it. No need for the snippy remarks towards Running C. She has fantastic horses, a fantastic breeding program and plenty of horses winning money! |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
Nobody will dare throw rocks at you for that, and you know it! LOL I like him. Thanks for posting. I enjoyed the video. Hat's off to you. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Blueridgedreaming - 2014-04-21 12:46 PM Thank you for sharing your video with everyone! It is okay for people to give healthy criticism, but please be kind while you do it. No need for the snippy remarks towards Running C. She has fantastic horses, a fantastic breeding program and plenty of horses winning money!
Amen. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Whiteboy - 2014-04-21 12:48 PM Blueridgedreaming - 2014-04-21 12:46 PM Thank you for sharing your video with everyone! It is okay for people to give healthy criticism, but please be kind while you do it. No need for the snippy remarks towards Running C. She has fantastic horses, a fantastic breeding program and plenty of horses winning money!
Amen squared. |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | roanrider - 2014-04-22 11:37 AM I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
Very nice! Love this horse and the way he moves. The guy riding him does a great job! |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I want to clarify about these 2 year olds being pushed too hard too soon. I plan to ride for 15-20 minutes per ride, give or take based on how the horse is handling the ride that day. And we like to do 30-60 rides before turning them back out to pasture for a break. I certainly don't expect them to perform the maneuvers like a finished horse would, but I want them to have a good understanding of what I'm asking for and willingly do it, even if it's not perfect yet or done quickly. Most important is protecting them both physically and mentally, knowing when to ask for more or to back off. I want a horse that enjoys doing its job, not dreads being caught because they fear the ride that is to come. I think the same concepts apply to groundwork with these youngsters. I'm not the type to handle my babies regularly since they will spend most of their time in the pasture prior to them being started as 2 year olds. But if you show them correctly the first time that lesson will stay with them. But unfortunately the same goes for if you teach them incorrectly, they're going to remember that, too. A good colt starter will create a foundation that lasts a lifetime.
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Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | roanrider - 2014-04-21 11:37 AM I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
Very very very nice. This is what I like to see with my colts.
This colt is soft, seeks contact, is moving collected and using himself. It is a much different picture than the last video.
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Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | Jenbabe - 2014-04-21 12:01 PM I want to clarify about these 2 year olds being pushed too hard too soon. I plan to ride for 15-20 minutes per ride, give or take based on how the horse is handling the ride that day. And we like to do 30-60 rides before turning them back out to pasture for a break. I certainly don't expect them to perform the maneuvers like a finished horse would, but I want them to have a good understanding of what I'm asking for and willingly do it, even if it's not perfect yet or done quickly. Most important is protecting them both physically and mentally, knowing when to ask for more or to back off. I want a horse that enjoys doing its job, not dreads being caught because they fear the ride that is to come. I think the same concepts apply to groundwork with these youngsters. I'm not the type to handle my babies regularly since they will spend most of their time in the pasture prior to them being started as 2 year olds. But if you show them correctly the first time that lesson will stay with them. But unfortunately the same goes for if you teach them incorrectly, they're going to remember that, too. A good colt starter will create a foundation that lasts a lifetime.
That is what it all comes down to with starting and handling colts no matter if you start when they are born or don't touch them till they are two or ten! If you lay a good foundation build on positive experiences the horse stays broke!
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Expert
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I can't take credit for my colt, my colt starter does a really nice job. Just wanted to show folks "my" version of a 45 dayer.
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| HotbearLVR - 2014-04-21 1:48 PM roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
Ya never know what kind of a response you'll get! lol |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM
I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
Okay… not taking anything away from the colt or the guy on him… He is a super nice horse and the guy is great with his hands… BUT…
This is a totally different kind of horse than the horse in the other video. This colt looks a little lazy and is probably bred a little quieter than the other horse. He looks like he is a horse that is very mature for his age and doesn't get too worried about stuff… my kind of horse, lol. They can make you look really good.
The other horse is - a little more horse - he has more go to him and he's more "nervous" in general. With a horse like that I would go pretty slow and do my best to keep him relaxed and willing. You can't put these suckers in a box.
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Location: Over by those oil wells, TX | roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM
I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
Totally in love!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| grinandbareit - 2014-04-21 3:37 PM roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4 Okay… not taking anything away from the colt or the guy on him… He is a super nice horse and the guy is great with his hands… BUT… This is a totally different kind of horse than the horse in the other video. This colt looks a little lazy and is probably bred a little quieter than the other horse. He looks like he is a horse that is very mature for his age and doesn't get too worried about stuff… my kind of horse, lol. They can make you look really good. The other horse is - a little more horse - he has more go to him and he's more "nervous" in general. With a horse like that I would go pretty slow and do my best to keep him relaxed and willing. You can't put these suckers in a box.
My colt is user friendly and easy to get along with but he isn't lazy. There's a big difference between being quiet and lazy and being quiet, willing and waiting for the next cue. He'll be uncomplicated to go on with with his new owner.
I have another 3 year old at this same trainer and she is more animated. She has a mind of her own and has more fire to her. Some days she rides like this gelding, other days she's still bucking. lol She's doing the same maneuvers that this gelding is but it will take longer to get her riding consistent.....so she's staying there for a while longer!!!!
Edited by roanrider 2014-04-21 2:54 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1767
Location: California | This was my filly the day after I got her back from the colt starter. This was 2 years ago.
http://youtu.be/0RxI7rzI178? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM
I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4
I like how the handle on this colt better then the first one.
The reasoning being he is relaxed, the rider is lighter on the face, and the horse is not trying to evade the bit, but accepts the pressure and gives to it. I also like how this horse is listening to body position, when the rider sits down in the saddle, the horse is already starting to plant his but before there is contact on the reins.
You can tell by the ears the horse is constantly listening and awaiting the next command instead of looking for an escape.
Nice horse, and the trainer did a nice job keeping him soft and attentive but relaxed. |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | roanrider - 2014-04-21 2:50 PM
grinandbareit - 2014-04-21 3:37 PM roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4 Okay… not taking anything away from the colt or the guy on him… He is a super nice horse and the guy is great with his hands… BUT… This is a totally different kind of horse than the horse in the other video. This colt looks a little lazy and is probably bred a little quieter than the other horse. He looks like he is a horse that is very mature for his age and doesn't get too worried about stuff… my kind of horse, lol. They can make you look really good. The other horse is - a little more horse - he has more go to him and he's more "nervous" in general. With a horse like that I would go pretty slow and do my best to keep him relaxed and willing. You can't put these suckers in a box.
I have another 3 year old at this same trainer and she is more animated. She has a mind of her own and has more fire to her. Some days she rides like this gelding, other days she's still bucking. lol She's doing the same maneuvers that this gelding is but it will take longer to get her riding consistent.....so she's staying there for a while longer!!!!
I agree with this. I like the colt in the video a lot, I'm a fan of a smoother more quiet horse myself. I don't have the nerve I used to.
What I've learned from all the horses that have come in to train is this- a lazy horse is usually the one you have to watch, not the horse who is "hotter" and craving to move. A truly lazy horse (not the one in the video) will seize up with you and not want to move. When they do this they have a much greater tendency to buck. Some of the nastiest horses I've been around were lazy S.O.B.s who didn't want to work and when you ask "too much" of them they come unglued.
We have a gelding who is much like yours (only ours is a mustang ) and another who is more like the one in the first video. She is always "on" and it takes a lot more handling to make her look good. However, at 3 years old she cruises one of the nicest barrel and pole patterns I've seen. My gelding on the other hand is very user friendly and wants to work, just not fast.
I think anyone who can start colts and do it well deserves a pat on the back.It's tough and each horse is such an individual that they have to be able to adapt to many different styles. Not saying that barrel trainers don't but usually they find a style or bloodline they work well with and stick to that, colt starters don't have that luxury. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks...
Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try! |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Itsme - 2014-04-21 4:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
What's in these Calming Cookies? Are they OTC? |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| Itsme - 2014-04-21 5:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
I'm certainly no trainer, nor do I have a dog in this particular fight, but I think you *might* have missed the point entirely. |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| Itsme - 2014-04-21 5:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
What?!? Please explain what you mean by this?!? |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
You are either incredibly stupid or just like to stir shi!. Because a horse is working quietly does not mean it cannot clock in the barrel pen. Watch Charmayne or Sherry Cervi sometime. Their horses warm up calm, go in the alley way calm, and scald off a run. They are broke too. |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | DunIt - 2014-04-21 12:11 PM Ok i have another twist....where do you expect a 5 yr old off the track that stand s to be saddled with a western saddle and doesnt buck to be after 60 days? Here is what my OTT Tres Seis daughter that I bought a couple months ago is doing. Checking cows. She was in race training when I purchased her the end of January.
ETA: No calming cookies. Just lots of miles & wet saddle blankets.
Edited by rockinas 2014-04-21 4:42 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | Whiteboy - 2014-04-21 10:21 AM GoGaited - 2014-04-19 1:52 PM Not impressed.
Edited by GoGaited 2014-04-21 4:49 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
Seasoning, how does it work? |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| rockinas - 2014-04-21 4:39 PM
DunIt - 2014-04-21 12:11 PM Ok i have another twist....where do you expect a 5 yr old off the track that stand s to be saddled with a western saddle and doesnt buck to be after 60 days? Here is what my OTT Tres Seis daughter that I bought a couple months ago is doing. Checking cows. She was in race training when I purchased her the end of January.
ETA: No calming cookies. Just lots of miles & wet saddle blankets.
You said a mouthful there , lots of miles and wet saddle blankets. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | rockinas - 2014-04-21 4:39 PM DunIt - 2014-04-21 12:11 PM Ok i have another twist....where do you expect a 5 yr old off the track that stand s to be saddled with a western saddle and doesnt buck to be after 60 days? Here is what my OTT Tres Seis daughter that I bought a couple months ago is doing. Checking cows. She was in race training when I purchased her the end of January.
ETA: No calming cookies. Just lots of miles & wet saddle blankets.
Off topic but is that a hobble stocking stuffer her neck? |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| GoGaited - 2014-04-21 4:41 PM Whiteboy - 2014-04-21 10:21 AM GoGaited - 2014-04-19 1:52 PM Not impressed. That "trainer" is pushing too hard, too fast and the horse is resisting. You don't have to be a genius to see that. ETA, my not impressed was directed to the "trainer", not a comment on the horse.
I guess your reputation preceeds you. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I really think Itsme like's pulling our legs and being a ding-a-ling he/she gets a big kick out of all this.  |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | TurnLane - 2014-04-21 4:53 PM Off topic but is that a hobble stocking stuffer her neck? Yes they are hobbles. Mine are all hobble broke. No one likes to walk home from the pasture if you have to step off to doctor something.
Although I have had a couple that could go fairly fast with them on. LOL.
Edited by rockinas 2014-04-21 5:00 PM
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Expert
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| roanrider - 2014-04-21 4:22 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-21 5:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
Simple, they dont let a horse be a horse. Internet experts believe after x amount of days my horse has to do this or that and must be ridden in this or that bit. They fail to realize these horses are all individuals and some respond better being trained at a much slower rate than others with different tools and techniques . So basically they push all the horses to learn at the owners pace with a certain method and train the colts natural ability right out of them, thus braking the colts of their heart and will, and these same people wonder why they clock in the 3D so often. "His counter arc and papers sure are pretty though."
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| Itsme - 2014-04-21 6:06 PM roanrider - 2014-04-21 4:22 PM Itsme - 2014-04-21 5:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try! Simple, they dont let a horse be a horse. Internet experts believe after x amount of days my horse has to do this or that and must be ridden in this or that bit. They fail to realize these horses are all individuals and some respond better being trained at a much slower rate than others with different tools and techniques . So basically they push all the horses to learn at the owners pace with a certain method and train the colts natural ability right out of them, thus braking the colts of their heart and will, and these same people wonder why they clock in the 3D so often. "His counter arc and papers sure are pretty though."
I agree some people do that but please don't group everybody in that category.
The colt in my video is for sale so I want to be very clear that what you see is a good minded colt paired with a talented colt starter, plain and simple.
I'll skip the calming cookies (whatever that is) and concentrate on building confident colts. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| roanrider - 2014-04-21 5:16 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-21 6:06 PM roanrider - 2014-04-21 4:22 PM Itsme - 2014-04-21 5:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try! Simple, they dont let a horse be a horse. Internet experts believe after x amount of days my horse has to do this or that and must be ridden in this or that bit. They fail to realize these horses are all individuals and some respond better being trained at a much slower rate than others with different tools and techniques . So basically they push all the horses to learn at the owners pace with a certain method and train the colts natural ability right out of them, thus braking the colts of their heart and will, and these same people wonder why they clock in the 3D so often. "His counter arc and papers sure are pretty though."
The colt in my video is for sale so I want to be very clear that what you see is a good minded colt paired with a talented colt starter, plain and simple.
I'll skip the calming cookies (whatever that is) and concentrate on building confident colts.
I see where youre coming from, I didnt know it was your video or even watch it. I was just going off the responses... |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | rockinas - 2014-04-21 4:59 PM TurnLane - 2014-04-21 4:53 PM Off topic but is that a hobble stocking stuffer her neck?
Although I have had a couple that could go fairly fast with them on. LOL.
How awesome for your horses! I so wish mine could have that opportunity....it truly does make a horse. Very cool, rockinas! |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
I have to agree.....
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show  ......... |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| NJJ - 2014-04-21 6:16 PM
Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show .........
Are you going to cry to a mod again?
For what is worth, the horse in the 2nd video doesnt show anymore promise than the horse in the 1st video. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Herbie - 2014-04-21 6:08 PM How awesome for your horses! I so wish mine could have that opportunity....it truly does make a horse. Very cool, rockinas!
It really does help. I know most people don't have that chance, I feel lucky that we get to do this every day here. Even though some days it's not fun. But it does make nice horses.
The guy that starts my horses barely spends any time in the round pen with them at all. They are ridden out ASAP and exposed to a lot of things, so when they come back here they can handle anything that we might throw at them.
They get a lot of confidence when they are able to be taken & ridden out like ours are. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | roanrider - 2014-04-21 2:50 PM
grinandbareit - 2014-04-21 3:37 PM roanrider - 2014-04-21 12:37 PM I realize I'm opening myself up for criticisim but here's my 3 year old. He had 30 days last fall, turned out Nov-March and went back for another 15-20 rides late March/early April. You can open/close gates on him, he's been used to move cattle and check fence. This was the first time in this arena and the ground was much deeper than anything he'd been in before. He may not have ALL the bells and whistles that some of you expect in 60 days but I think he has a nice start.
I'll put my helmet on for when people start throwing rocks at me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOBArUPnGN4 Okay… not taking anything away from the colt or the guy on him… He is a super nice horse and the guy is great with his hands… BUT… This is a totally different kind of horse than the horse in the other video. This colt looks a little lazy and is probably bred a little quieter than the other horse. He looks like he is a horse that is very mature for his age and doesn't get too worried about stuff… my kind of horse, lol. They can make you look really good. The other horse is - a little more horse - he has more go to him and he's more "nervous" in general. With a horse like that I would go pretty slow and do my best to keep him relaxed and willing. You can't put these suckers in a box.
I have another 3 year old at this same trainer and she is more animated. She has a mind of her own and has more fire to her. Some days she rides like this gelding, other days she's still bucking. lol She's doing the same maneuvers that this gelding is but it will take longer to get her riding consistent.....so she's staying there for a while longer!!!!
Perhaps "lazy" was the wrong word… By lazy I mean he looks like he would rather sit quiet in the corner, lol. That is not a bad thing. Part of that came from the fact that the rider gave him a little pop with the rein to remind him to keep moving. I have had several just like that and they were all super nice horses. A little lazy isn't necessarily a bad thing, IMO. I'd sure rather work and ride one that wants to chill out rather than fight to get one to relax.
I love my daughter to death, but she can be a little lazy, lol. Doesn't mean that she isn't a great mom and great at her job, she just enjoys being "quiet" when she should be doing dishes, lol. Some horses wait expectantly for "what comes next" and some are just "quiet" and need a little urging with the rein to get to that next level.
And there is a big difference between lazy and defiant too. One that sulls up isn't necessarily lazy, IMO, just defiant. They are a whole other topic, lol.
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Location: MI | roanrider - 2014-04-21 5:16 PM
The colt in my video is for sale so I want to be very clear that what you see is a good minded colt paired with a talented colt starter, plain and simple. I'll skip the calming cookies (whatever that is ) and concentrate on building confident colts.
Hey Roanrider, is your colt starter here in MI? Can I ask who you used? I like the handle he has on him (and gorgeous colt by the way...can't show my daughter, she's been ogling (head over heels, lol) buckskins since we went down to Road to the Horse :).
I sent my 2yo to be started last year, got 60 days put on him. I knew that the right person would "make or break" him, he definitely could have gone south in the wrong hands. Long story short, he came home soft, pretty confident, and responded so nice. I rode him a bit over the summer, and then he's had mid-fall/winter off. Yes, he'll bear with me while I open a gate, lope circles well in an arena (less perfect in a pasture) moves off my leg well, stops, backs, turns on the forehand or hind. I can swing a rope on him, 'chase' a cow, pony another horse, starting on a headset. He's not perfect, but has a good start in these tasks. But best of all, I would say that he's pretty comfortable and confident being ridden. Knowing his mom and how he was as a colt, I am super excited with how he was started and although he's not nearly as polished as the buckskin above, I'm ok with it. |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Itsme - 2014-04-21 6:29 PM NJJ - 2014-04-21 6:16 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show ......... Are you going to cry to a mod again? For what is worth, the horse in the 2nd video doesnt show anymore promise than the horse in the 1st video.
For the record, I didn't cry to any mod about you.....they are certainly smart enough to see what you are all about without any help......show your a little more....... |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| Itsme - 2014-04-21 7:29 PM NJJ - 2014-04-21 6:16 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show ......... Are you going to cry to a mod again? For what is worth, the horse in the 2nd video doesnt show anymore promise than the horse in the 1st video.
You have such a way with words, such a positive outlook. Thanks for that.... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | roanrider - 2014-04-21 8:36 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-21 7:29 PM NJJ - 2014-04-21 6:16 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show ......... Are you going to cry to a mod again? For what is worth, the horse in the 2nd video doesnt show anymore promise than the horse in the 1st video.
I bet if she saw Scamper after his first 60 days she would have passed on him. |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | rockette - 2014-04-21 9:30 PM
roanrider - 2014-04-21 8:36 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-21 7:29 PM NJJ - 2014-04-21 6:16 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show ......... Are you going to cry to a mod again? For what is worth, the horse in the 2nd video doesnt show anymore promise than the horse in the 1st video.
I bet if she saw Scamper after his first 60 days she would have passed on him.
She could work on her grammar as well... |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| roanrider - 2014-04-21 8:36 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-21 7:29 PM NJJ - 2014-04-21 6:16 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show ......... Are you going to cry to a mod again? For what is worth, the horse in the 2nd video doesnt show anymore promise than the horse in the 1st video.
I am sorry, you seem nice and I dont like being outspoken and or rude to nice people in fact if others on here were more tactful I wouldnt have posted a thing on this thread.
The way I see it is your horse has a good handle on him right now and is a nice horse no matter what, but I dont know a barrel horses potential until you add speed. Once you add speed you can see how smooth they can turn AKA fast around a barrel and then mix in overall speed with that and of course a great foundation and thats when I see true "potential". |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| MsDuchessGoTe - 2014-04-21 9:48 PM
rockette - 2014-04-21 9:30 PM
roanrider - 2014-04-21 8:36 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-21 7:29 PM NJJ - 2014-04-21 6:16 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show ......... Are you going to cry to a mod again? For what is worth, the horse in the 2nd video doesnt show anymore promise than the horse in the 1st video.
I bet if she saw Scamper after his first 60 days she would have passed on him.
She could work on her grammar as well...
And now we have the grammar police...How cute!
Why wouldnt I like Scamper? Have you read my position on this or are you just guessing? |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
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Location: Bastrop, Texas | Seems to me that this thread has drifted off topic a bit. |
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| way off!!!. lol, didn't mean for it to go this far. |
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I AM being nice
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Location: MD | I don't want nearly as much polish on one as many might in 60 days. I want them moving forward willingly in a relaxed manner. I want them to walk, trot, lope, pick up leads easily, with balanced transitions. They should be VERY soft. I want them yielding to my inside rein, isolating body parts and moving laterally to a degree consistent with their physical abilities at that point in their development.
This video is about somewhere right about the 60-70 day mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L07jNHv_mA |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | WrapSnap - 2014-04-21 10:41 PM I don't want nearly as much polish on one as many might in 60 days. I want them moving forward willingly in a relaxed manner. I want them to walk, trot, lope, pick up leads easily, with balanced transitions. They should be VERY soft. I want them yielding to my inside rein, isolating body parts and moving laterally to a degree consistent with their physical abilities at that point in their development. This video is about somewhere right about the 60-70 day mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L07jNHv_mA
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-04-22 9:57 AM
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Expert
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| Oh WrapSnap, theyre supposed to be two tracking by 70 days... |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | Itsme - 2014-04-21 10:01 PM
MsDuchessGoTe - 2014-04-21 9:48 PM
rockette - 2014-04-21 9:30 PM
roanrider - 2014-04-21 8:36 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-21 7:29 PM NJJ - 2014-04-21 6:16 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 4:36 PM Itsme - 2014-04-22 3:15 PM So basically give a horse some calming cookies and everyone on here will fall all over themselves talking about how good the colt looks... Ill take mine with heart, spirit and the will to try!
he/she commented that he/she hadn't even watched the video. To make a stupid comment, without watching the video, shows exactly what the comments are meant to do....stir the SH*T and show ......... Are you going to cry to a mod again? For what is worth, the horse in the 2nd video doesnt show anymore promise than the horse in the 1st video.
I bet if she saw Scamper after his first 60 days she would have passed on him.
She could work on her grammar as well...
And now we have the grammar police...How cute!
Why wouldnt I like Scamper? Have you read my position on this or are you just guessing?
You started it!  |
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 Veteran
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Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | WrapSnap - 2014-04-21 10:41 PM
I don't want nearly as much polish on one as many might in 60 days. I want them moving forward willingly in a relaxed manner. I want them to walk, trot, lope, pick up leads easily, with balanced transitions. They should be VERY soft. I want them yielding to my inside rein, isolating body parts and moving laterally to a degree consistent with their physical abilities at that point in their development.
This video is about somewhere right about the 60-70 day mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L07jNHv_mA
WrapSnap, what is with the tie down or is that something else. I don't want to start something else on this thread but I would start on the headset. That horse is really a nice mover and tracks great, the head needs to come down though. Loved the transition up, good work. That is a good looking horse! |
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Veteran
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| I really enjoy seeing everyone's videos of their colts. Hugely appreciate those who are willing to post it so we can all view and get different ideas.
Thanks to the brave ones! |
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | I'm a bit late joining in here but it's been interesting reading everyones comments on this. Here's a video of one of my last outside colts I started. (I retired from breaking for other people a couple years ago & just start my own now) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJoohNes1ZE
When he got here he was a halter broke 3 year old & this video was somewhere between 45-60 days training, I don't remember exactly anymore. With my outside horses I ask for quite a bit more than I do my own. If I'm training someone elses my goal by 60 days is that the colt is out of the roundpen & does not require any lunging or ground work before getting on, they ride off quietly across the pasture & have likely been through the cattle a few times. I want them to walk, trot & lope a nice quiet circle out in the open, nice light stop & backing relaxed, move both their hips & shoulders & a little bit of lateral work. I might even start working on simple lead changes. But it all depends on the individual, some come along very slowly & others progress much faster.
With my own I start them at 2 and put about 10-20 rides on them. I want walk, trot, lope, stop & back in the roundpen & for them to be soft in the bridle. Then outside of the roundpen I want to be able to walk & trot around the little pasture behind my barn & trot a relaxed circle. When they get to this point I let them be done for the year & training starts again as a 3 year old.
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Thread Killer
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| HotbearLVR - 2014-04-21 11:27 PM Seems to me that this thread has drifted off topic a bit.
It's certainly drifted into being mean-spirited. |
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Veteran
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Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | SaraJean - 2014-04-22 10:31 AM
I'm a bit late joining in here but it's been interesting reading everyones comments on this. Here's a video of one of my last outside colts I started. (I retired from breaking for other people a couple years ago & just start my own now) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJoohNes1ZEWhen he got here he was a halter broke 3 year old & this video was somewhere between 45-60 days training, I don't remember exactly anymore. With my outside horses I ask for quite a bit more than I do my own. If I'm training someone elses my goal by 60 days is that the colt is out of the roundpen & does not require any lunging or ground work before getting on, they ride off quietly across the pasture & have likely been through the cattle a few times. I want them to walk, trot & lope a nice quiet circle out in the open, nice light stop & backing relaxed, move both their hips & shoulders & a little bit of lateral work. I might even start working on simple lead changes. But it all depends on the individual, some come along very slowly & others progress much faster.
With my own I start them at 2 and put about 10-20 rides on them. I want walk, trot, lope, stop & back in the roundpen & for them to be soft in the bridle. Then outside of the roundpen I want to be able to walk & trot around the little pasture behind my barn & trot a relaxed circle. When they get to this point I let them be done for the year & training starts again as a 3 year old.
Beautifully done. That's a good looking horse and you look like a wonderful soft hand. I think the horse looks relaxed and confident yet compliant. Well done! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Back to the original topic... This is my (then) 3 year old after 30 days at the trainer, not 30 rides. I like waiting until 3 because they're more mentally and physically mature and can do more. She stayed another 30 days and I was super happy with her when she came home--she was more confident, more forward, and had lateral buttons by then. I rode her into the fall and then turned her out for 6 months. She came back right where I left her. I left another 3 year old with him last week. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tTnAyiJ3L7o |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| SaraJean - 2014-04-22 10:31 AM I'm a bit late joining in here but it's been interesting reading everyones comments on this. Here's a video of one of my last outside colts I started. (I retired from breaking for other people a couple years ago & just start my own now) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJoohNes1ZEWhen he got here he was a halter broke 3 year old & this video was somewhere between 45-60 days training, I don't remember exactly anymore. With my outside horses I ask for quite a bit more than I do my own. If I'm training someone elses my goal by 60 days is that the colt is out of the roundpen & does not require any lunging or ground work before getting on, they ride off quietly across the pasture & have likely been through the cattle a few times. I want them to walk, trot & lope a nice quiet circle out in the open, nice light stop & backing relaxed, move both their hips & shoulders & a little bit of lateral work. I might even start working on simple lead changes. But it all depends on the individual, some come along very slowly & others progress much faster.
With my own I start them at 2 and put about 10-20 rides on them. I want walk, trot, lope, stop & back in the roundpen & for them to be soft in the bridle. Then outside of the roundpen I want to be able to walk & trot around the little pasture behind my barn & trot a relaxed circle. When they get to this point I let them be done for the year & training starts again as a 3 year old.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2014-04-22 1:00 PM
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | Expect them to not loose weight.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| This thread is awesome. We have people commenting without watching videos, a tie down comment, talk of passing on Scamper at 60 days, wet saddle blankets, stirring the pot, talk about horses with heart vs those with foundation, flexion, where they should be at a certain time period, pros with calm horses in the gate, doping, lazy horses and so much more.
Throw in a comment about Frenchmans Guy not being fast enough, DTF colts chipping, guy riders being too rough and bad ground and we may indeed have the perfect barrel horse thread. I'm staying tuned for sure.
And I'd like to say I haven't watched all the videos but I HAVE seen videos (only on VHS, don't trust them shiny little discs) and would predict the unicorn in video 5c could outrun the zebra for sure. But only if you took the tie down off....
ETA, I was wrong. the unicorn is a little off in back. Must need natural hoof care.
Edited by Frenchie 2014-04-22 7:00 PM
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Frenchie - 2014-04-22 6:58 PM This thread is awesome. We have people commenting without watching videos, a tie down comment, talk of passing on Scamper at 60 days, wet saddle blankets, stirring the pot, talk about horses with heart vs those with foundation, flexion, where they should be at a certain time period, pros with calm horses in the gate, doping, lazy horses and so much more.
Throw in a comment about Frenchmans Guy not being fast enough, DTF colts chipping, guy riders being too rough and bad ground and we may indeed have the perfect barrel horse thread. I'm staying tuned for sure.
And I'd like to say I haven't watched all the videos but I HAVE seen videos (only on VHS, don't trust them shiny little discs) and would predict the unicorn in video 5c could outrun the zebra for sure. But only if you took the tie down off....
ETA, I was wrong. the unicorn is a little off in back. Must need natural hoof care.
and you are surprised?????  |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Frenchie - 2014-04-22 6:58 PM This thread is awesome. We have people commenting without watching videos, a tie down comment, talk of passing on Scamper at 60 days, wet saddle blankets, stirring the pot, talk about horses with heart vs those with foundation, flexion, where they should be at a certain time period, pros with calm horses in the gate, doping, lazy horses and so much more.
Throw in a comment about Frenchmans Guy not being fast enough, DTF colts chipping, guy riders being too rough and bad ground and we may indeed have the perfect barrel horse thread. I'm staying tuned for sure.
And I'd like to say I haven't watched all the videos but I HAVE seen videos (only on VHS, don't trust them shiny little discs) and would predict the unicorn in video 5c could outrun the zebra for sure. But only if you took the tie down off....
ETA, I was wrong. the unicorn is a little off in back. Must need natural hoof care.
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Frenchie - 2014-04-22 6:58 PM This thread is awesome. We have people commenting without watching videos, a tie down comment, talk of passing on Scamper at 60 days, wet saddle blankets, stirring the pot, talk about horses with heart vs those with foundation, flexion, where they should be at a certain time period, pros with calm horses in the gate, doping, lazy horses and so much more.
Throw in a comment about Frenchmans Guy not being fast enough, DTF colts chipping, guy riders being too rough and bad ground and we may indeed have the perfect barrel horse thread. I'm staying tuned for sure.
And I'd like to say I haven't watched all the videos but I HAVE seen videos (only on VHS, don't trust them shiny little discs) and would predict the unicorn in video 5c could outrun the zebra for sure. But only if you took the tie down off....
ETA, I was wrong. the unicorn is a little off in back. Must need natural hoof care.
But I LIKED the unicorn - especially when it farted rainbows and snorted pixie dust! LOL - call the natural hoof care gurus today!! |
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2yo 60 days at trainer