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 Veteran
Posts: 246
 
Location: Idaho | Looking for some opinions on what makes a race good for you? What would make it better? What are things that drive you crazy that you would change at some of the races you attend.
For me personally, time onlys drive me crazy. They are before the race, which is nice for people who have green horses to see and feel the arena before you spend $65 to run. I get why we do them, I have used them, they have a purpose. But I feel people abuse them. Showing up to only do time onlys buying 10+, and people who are running dont get any. Walking or trotting the pattern and taking up so much time that the race starts late....
My idea... timed runs before the race are $7 each and only for contestants only, encouraging nothing slower than a trot. Time onlys run after the race are $4 each or $3/10. No restrictions other than make it under a minute per time only. Train away!!! :) Opinions??
Not trying to start any heated conversations, just looking for ideas from the people on the running end of things. |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
 
Location: Kansas | TSlashO - 2014-04-19 9:51 AM Looking for some opinions on what makes a race good for you? What would make it better? What are things that drive you crazy that you would change at some of the races you attend. For me personally, time onlys drive me crazy. They are before the race, which is nice for people who have green horses to see and feel the arena before you spend $65 to run. I get why we do them, I have used them, they have a purpose. But I feel people abuse them. Showing up to only do time onlys buying 10+, and people who are running dont get any. Walking or trotting the pattern and taking up so much time that the race starts late.... My idea... timed runs before the race are $7 each and only for contestants only, encouraging nothing slower than a trot. Time onlys run after the race are $4 each or $3/10. No restrictions other than make it under a minute per time only. Train away!!! :) Opinions?? Not trying to start any heated conversations, just looking for ideas from the people on the running end of things.
I get your frustration with exhibtions or time onlies, but that's the best money maker at any barrel race and no producer is ever going to do away with them. Some of the jackpots around here will say exhibitions at 11 and open won't start before 12:30, or exhibitions at 2 and open at 3, then cut off exhibitions at a certain amount. I think the local NBHAs that I go to will usually stop selling exhibitions when they get 100 of them, that way the open starts not much after 12:30. If you want exhibitions, you get there before 11, and if you just want to run in the open, you don't have to be there so early. Win-win. |
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Veteran
Posts: 246
Location: Idaho | I understand they are a money maker, and im not saying do away with them completely. Im saying run them a little differently. Ive have been to many races where i live 3 hours away. I get up at 4am and make an effort to get there early show up when they start TOs and they are sold out, yet the parking lot is empty. And people who arrive after me (generally locals) get some TOs. They know the person taking entries and call in to get their TOs. Or some one comes in at buys a pile for their friends who havent arrived yet.
You can sell X amount of TOs but if everyone is in trainer mode it stills runs over into the race start time. Im just saying if you charge a little more and make the runs before the race for contestants only, it may cut the amount before the race to a manageable number. Then after the race people can take as much time as they want... possible solution??
Edited by TSlashO 2014-04-19 11:10 AM
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | For time onlies I think the producer should sale "a time slot", say $5=1 minute, you buy how many minutes you need. I've seen them do this and say 3 people will piggyback their time slot together, so 3 of them in the pen at one time and they have 3 minutes to us as they wish pretty much. This way the producer has an idea of how many slots they have available, say time onlies start at 800 am and go till 9:30 am you have basically 90 time slots to sale, and pretty much if they go over it is from then over selling the number of time slots which makes their race start late and becomes a reflection on them rather than how people use their time only. |
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Veteran
Posts: 246
Location: Idaho | Ive also seen the time slot/time limit approach and it still generally runs over. I dont really agree completely that it is all the producer over selling the time slots. Ive have seen numerous times where people have their one minute and go over it because there is an "i paid for my time and im going to take it. So i went a little over, that last girl did too" attitude. Not saying everyone, but it has a trickle down effect. When this happens its not because the slots were over sold but because many people over stayed their limit usually due to training. When you hear the announcer repeatedly remind people to be under a minute, then i feel that is on the contestants part not the producers...jmo
But TOs aside... Is there anything else racers would like to see at a race that would make it smoother, more enjoyable, or more accomadating?
Edited by TSlashO 2014-04-19 12:35 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If you don't like how a producer is running their show, put your own on.
I have hosted jackpots, and it is a lot of work, I have the outmost respect for anyone who want to put on a show.
Things that work in my area are
Max 2 runs per horse, 1 run is one barrel pattern
1 min time slots, whistle blows at 45 seconds for you to leave
First come first serve
Prepaid timed onlies, you pay ahead of time with your entries, if you miss your slot you are SOL
Exhibitions are ran after and are timed 5-10/run these are also raked
Not everything works perfect everytime, I am just happy to be able to attend jackpots without having to host them |
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Veteran
Posts: 246
Location: Idaho | The reason I am asking is because Im working with some people to possibly put on races. I know how I would run them but being a potential new producer i want to hear what fellow barrel racers would like to see. Im on the running side of things now. Lots of people on this side have great ideas but they will never put on races or give their input. Im simply asking what barrel racers would like to see or have seen and liked. Im collecting ideas not condemning any other producers for what they do. I brought up time onlys because that is one area that everywhere i have been has been hard to organize. Just looking for ideas to streamline the process but keep the majority happy and coming back to future races :) |
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 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | I really like when producers allow you to pre enter via text message/call/e-mail and then pay your entry when you get there. I'm sure with this you can run into problems with people not showing up, etc. But it is SUPER convenient for me and I really like when producers do it.
Also, staying on time is huge for me. There is nothing that turns me off from coming to another race more than when the Open was supposed to start at lets say noon and expos are still going on. I highly respect the producers who are always on time with everything (cut expos off when they should, get the drags going at appropriate times, etc.)
Edited by barrelracingchick16 2014-04-19 2:55 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| To make a show appealing.
Parking
Warm up pen
Efficient raking. Preferably one tractor/quad per barrel. Should be able to go through 50-60 horses per hour during the race
Barrel setters
Computer generated draw and payout. Have payout done immediately after last horse, no one likes waiting 30-40 min after the last entry for payout.
Concession not necessary but is nice to have. |
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Veteran
Posts: 246
Location: Idaho | Thanks! These are super helpful. Keep them coming!! :) |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| A good announcer is a must. I have been to races and the announcer would call names not numbers. If you don't know everyone running it was crazy to figure out especially if you are busy warming up, or riding more than one horse. A good announcer keeps things running smooth. Rarely happens, but if the announcer isn't experienced it can be a mess. |
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | Making safety the priority! If you see, the announcer sees, or someone reports children being where they shouldn't, running up and down the stands, and playing in areas where only horses should be- make a quick announcement and try to resolve the situation.
Some parents just aren't as vigilant as they should be or at least try to ignore their children I suppose. Once I was hurt because of children jumping in the stands behind the first barrel and once my hat was knocked off when my young horse reared after being frightened by young children jumping in the stands above his head during a halter class (elevated stands about 10' from arena floor-storage/concessions below). Another friend of mine had a horse spook badly 2 weeks ago due to children jumping off the stands to the ground below at another venue. They were jumping almost directly behind the 1st barrel. I know that the horses should be broke as possible, but you can't foresee every possible distraction and try to prepare for it.
Also making sure the ground is as good as it could possibly be- work with the people in charge of the location in advance and make sure to keep in touch with them so a watering or working up isn't missed.
Announcing numbers at the beginning or end of each drag is helpful as well. Post the results in a reasonable amount of time as well. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Honestly, if the ground is good, the payout is good, and it starts on time... I can put up with lots of other stuff. Those are the three determining factors on whether or not I go back.
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| Good warm-up area that has been watered and worked- dusty, hard warmup arenas are not cool.
Good race ground and quickly run race with 40+ per hour
No added crap fees- I'm getting really tired of the 30% office hold out, $20 arena fee, $20 late fees, $20 office fee... For a $1000 added race. When the fees/hold outs are more than whats going into the payout I get pretty frustrated. I LOVE the jackpots doing no fees and 100% payback.
Accurate payouts- there is no reason to have to post a payout 3,4 or 5 times. Just makes you wonder what's changing each time. |
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It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | I also really like when the announcer is consistently announcing the fast time throughout the entire race. It's surpising how many don't do this! |
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Veteran
Posts: 246
Location: Idaho | These are all great points! And I too have experienced many of these things. This is all very helpful! Thanks! |
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 There Could Be Aliens Out There
Posts: 1393
Location: North Central Kansas | Start on time! |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| We have an awesome little jackpot series around here.
$20 entries; if you want to run the series and be awards eligable you must nominate each horse/rider combo for $20 (only done once per season but points don't count until you do). This money goes into the awards pot and we have some butt kickin awards at the end of the season.
We allow for 2 hours of expos and stop taking money 30 minutes prior to the start time. Typically the next person up will work circles quietly in the arena unless the person up requests that they not do so, which several do and no one complains, but if you're just trotting or loping the pattern most aren't bothered by it and it helps hurry things along.
Youth can carry over their open times.
Pre marked barrel spots and tape! We have a person in charge of each are a and they have a tape measure with electrical tape marking out the "normal" barrel spots, plus we pre mark the fence showing where the 1st and 2nd belong. This makes it so much quicker if the tractor pulls a stake up - also making sure you have extra stakes!
We ran 140 on Saturday in the open and youth, which for us is a pretty big race, we got started shortly after 2 and got done shortly before 6 dragging every 6with 2 pulled stakes and a rookie tractor driver. We were pretty darn happy with that. |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | TSlashO - 2014-04-19 11:09 AM I understand they are a money maker, and im not saying do away with them completely. Im saying run them a little differently. Ive have been to many races where i live 3 hours away. I get up at 4am and make an effort to get there early show up when they start TOs and they are sold out, yet the parking lot is empty. And people who arrive after me (generally locals) get some TOs. They know the person taking entries and call in to get their TOs. Or some one comes in at buys a pile for their friends who havent arrived yet.
When I saw this, I looked to see if you were from around here. LOL.
Random draw at a day show is my pet peeve. Leaping lizards! If you want to run early, get there early. If you want to run late, get there late. I hate getting there early only to end up running five hours later because the producers insisted on a random draw. Whatever happened to signing up as you arrive? Urrg.
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Don't hold out all the positions that end in 1 and 6 for yourself, your friends, the local bigwigs. It's easy to spot when it happens every time. |
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Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Too far from home | Here's what I like in a barrel race.
1.) Good ground.
2.) Good ground.
3.) Good ground.
4.) Start on time.
5.) Post draw.
6.) Move through fast...50/hour.
7.) Announcer that lets you know what number they are on, who's in the next 2 drags etc.
8.) Fast results/payout.
I don't notice the issues with time onlys/exhibitions around here. We are a smaller market for sure, and are all pretty friendly without many big-time trainers. We respect each other and the girls that do train don't try to abuse anything. Honestly, there aren't many poorly run barrel races around here. Good luck and thank you for getting started producing barrel races! Good luck!!
Edited by crazy&lazy 2014-04-20 3:47 PM
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Regular
Posts: 87
| CanCan - 2014-04-20 2:48 PM
TSlashO - 2014-04-19 11:09 AM I understand they are a money maker, and im not saying do away with them completely. Im saying run them a little differently. Ive have been to many races where i live 3 hours away. I get up at 4am and make an effort to get there early show up when they start TOs and they are sold out, yet the parking lot is empty. And people who arrive after me (generally locals) get some TOs. They know the person taking entries and call in to get their TOs. Or some one comes in at buys a pile for their friends who havent arrived yet.
When I saw this, I looked to see if you were from around here. LOL.
Random draw at a day show is my pet peeve. Leaping lizards! If you want to run early, get there early. If you want to run late, get there late. I hate getting there early only to end up running five hours later because the producers insisted on a random draw. Whatever happened to signing up as you arrive? Urrg.
I have to disagree, I like random draws. Yes, sometimes you do get dead last (trust me, happens to us all the time) but you shouldn't have to be the first person there just to get a good draw. I think its more fair too to have a random draw, or at least draw to start at a certain number, not always 1. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | jaydenw - 2014-04-20 7:59 PM CanCan - 2014-04-20 2:48 PM TSlashO - 2014-04-19 11:09 AM I understand they are a money maker, and im not saying do away with them completely. Im saying run them a little differently. Ive have been to many races where i live 3 hours away. I get up at 4am and make an effort to get there early show up when they start TOs and they are sold out, yet the parking lot is empty. And people who arrive after me (generally locals) get some TOs. They know the person taking entries and call in to get their TOs. Or some one comes in at buys a pile for their friends who havent arrived yet. When I saw this, I looked to see if you were from around here. LOL.
Random draw at a day show is my pet peeve. Leaping lizards! If you want to run early, get there early. If you want to run late, get there late. I hate getting there early only to end up running five hours later because the producers insisted on a random draw. Whatever happened to signing up as you arrive? Urrg. I have to disagree, I like random draws. Yes, sometimes you do get dead last (trust me, happens to us all the time ) but you shouldn't have to be the first person there just to get a good draw. I think its more fair too to have a random draw, or at least draw to start at a certain number, not always 1.
My other pet peeve with the draw is when I bring more than one horse, I want them split by 40-45 riders so I can actually cool the first one out and THEN warm the second one up. I'm to the point of not entering more than one horse at certain races because I know I won't get split up in the draw and then I'll spend the whole day stressing because I can't take care of each horse the way he deserves, so I ride like crap and come home frustrated with the whole event. Last year, I ran 3 horses at a 150 horse race and was draws 111, 126 and 130-something even though I got there a full hour before the end of exhibitions. NEVER AGAIN will I enter 3 horses at that producer's races unless I can pre-enter one online and make sure I'm only warming two up at once. My record is warming 4 up at a time and it sucks. If they want all those entry fees from me, they can make it a little less of a PITA for me to run more than one horse.
Edited by rodeowithjoker 2014-04-21 9:30 AM
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Safety! All the other stuff is no big deal. If you have a small holding pen, limit the amount of riders in there. OR the area getting in and out of the holding pen. I know several people want to sit on their colts all day, but please do it when there is enough room. I have 2 kids that run and I hate small holding pens with a passion! It is not safe for the kids or the horses. BTW this is much more important to me since my 11 yr old daughter is going to be running my open horse this summer-she can handle him fine but if other people start jacking their horses around him, he's going to possibly scare her. Be respectful of space. and for the record, we go in, do our thing and get the heck out-others should do the same :) |
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 Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | By far and away my biggest pet peeve is a barrel race running late because they ran over on time onlies. And I don't agree it is your biggest money maker. You make more money per rider in an entry fee than you do time onlies. Especially pulling at least 100 like around here.
I have been asked to put on a barrel race and I like the ticket system if I was going to do exhibitions. You buy tickets and if you choose to try and do your exhibition and they get to the cut off time and you didn't get to ride, too bad, so sad.
Start on time!!!! And do grand entry, prayer, etc BEFORE the start time.
I generally handle most other things but starting late because of exhibitions will get me every time.
I will say, an announcer that announces the NUMBER they are on, not just the name, is helpful.
Oh, second pet peeve. Make sure your tractor driver doesn't disc the ENTIRE arena EVERy drag. Good grief-just do where we run and get out!!!
It is nice if results get posted ASAP. Plus, you won't get bugged if you do. Hence why computer generated programs are nice. I don't stick around when I run early. I am a "get in-get out-go home" type of person. But I like to know where I fell.
As for what will get me coming back, regardless of entry fees, is the staff. Make sure no one associated with your race is rude, annoying, etc. If they greet you with a smile and are friendly, I will come back for sure.
I will say it again, Jason Smith's crew at Fairfield BLEW THE SOCKS OFF ANY PRODUCER I have been to in Texas. Insane how much better I felt about a race just because literally every single person I was in contact with was just over the top nice and accomodating.
eta: Also, if you have only small places for trailers, and you even think it is going to be a big race, have someone out there directing parking. Oh, and being able to call in before the day of to get an entry is super helpful. Especially running more than one horse. I don't mind random draws either, IF it is a big, multi day show. For day of, I may get peeved.
Edited by sassy&tessa 2014-04-21 10:54 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 238
| Like everyone else... start on time! Here most races have 2 hours for exhibition, but I firmly believe in closing exhibitions at least 15 min before start time so that tractor driver can drag and course can be set. If you didn't get on your horse and in the arena by then, you can use your exhibition afterward.
Also, I know we have barrel horses and some are hard to get in the arena, but truly, if it takes 3-5 min to get your horse in, you aren't going in. I think that the announcers who give a 1 min gate call when things are getting too long are champions.
Tractor drivers who know how to drive. Get in, get out. Drag the dirt INTO the holes, not out of them, and do it quickly. Multi tractors are fabulous, but even then I've seen some so slow I'd rather have 1 tractor that gets it done.
I am NOT the type of person who wants to make a day of it. If I have 1 run, I don't want to be there for 6 hours or longer. I love if you can pre-enter so you know when you are running. If I'm not until #140, I won't get there an hour before start time. If you expect to have more than 100 entries, allow a pre-enter.
Club fees? Really? If I paid a $30 entry fee, I expect the 70-80% to come out of that. Not holding out $10 for club/award fees and then pull the 70-80% from the $20 left.
A decent warm up area is great, if possible. Loping circles in the grass between trailers doesn't really let me work with my horse if I need to.
Someone that keeps this flowing smoothly is a must. They can answer any questions at entries. They are sure the arena crew is there and ready to do their job when it's time, not talking and leaving an empty arena.
An announcer who pays attention. I hate when announcers sit there with dead air after someone has run or the tractor is done. They are either chatting with someone, trying to figure out the computer or times or answering questions.... they should do nothing but announce and make sure the entrants are at the gate and coming in. More time is wasted because they called a name and then didn't notice that no one was even attempting to come in the gate.
So.... in other words.... TIME. Things that eat up time add up. If there are 150 barrel racers, from start time to finish time should be no more than 3 hours. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I think there needs to be a cut-off for the time onlies. I understand they are a money maker but starting the open at 9:00 or later on a weeknight just does NOT work for those of us with JOBS that we have to get up to go to the next day. I live a mile and a half from a NICE pen but I will no longer haul there because I can't stay up until 11:00 during the week! Not starting on time is a HUGE pet-peeve of mine - how they "get away" with it here is to say the open will start "not before" a certain time. I talked to Phil Goosetree from D & G about this once and he said they ALWAYS start on time, no waiting on anybody! Of course, all the "big" shows I have been to DO start on time. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 564
Location: Texas | Start ON TIME! |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | grinandbareit - 2014-04-20 8:06 AM Honestly, if the ground is good, the payout is good, and it starts on time... I can put up with lots of other stuff. Those are the three determining factors on whether or not I go back.
i didn't read them all... but this
plus, get through entries in a reasonable amount of time. If there are 20 people in the open, show should not go until midnight! (when it started in the afternoon)... and yes, I have been to a few like that...
those are the biggest factors as to whether I will return somewhere.
Also, this SHOULD go without saying, but pick up the garbage around the arena and parking area (especially glass and wire).... I never would have thought I would have seen junk everywhere at a show, but I did. It was sharp/dangerous stuff too...and a LOT of it everywhere....I did not return to that show again. It was a local jackpot, but still... people should not be afraid they are going to get hurt walking to the arena! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 407
| 1. start on time
2. good announcer
3. good ground with good tractor drivers
I like a show to run quickly. when any of these fail then the show goes slow and that I absolutley don't like. |
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Opinions/Ideas on what makes a good race