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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
   
Location: Kansas | This was Chance's first run back after SI injections (injections done March 31st, this run was April 11th) and I can't decide if I think he is still sore or just thinks he's still sore. Opinions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY06SQOxX4Y&list=UU3h0VmyuYbqBRUor4JBQVlA
I had him vet checked last Friday and nothing is showing up other than some slight soreness in the right front foot, so I'm going to swap him back to the right next time we run. I can tell that he feels better after the SI injections, but I'm not entirely sure that we don't have something else still bothering him. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Do you have any videos early on in his career?
I say yes he is still sore on the back right leg as he is still coming out of his second and third barrel on the left back lead.
If he is still sore on the front right, what is the diagnosis and prognosis? |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-21 3:17 PM
Do you have any videos early on in his career?
I say yes he is still sore on the back right leg as he is still coming out of his second and third barrel on the left back lead.
If he is still sore on the front right, what is the diagnosis and prognosis?
My youtube channel has hundreds of his videos from as far back as 2006.
The foot soreness is like a 1/5 and its improved significantly with the Equipack pour-in pads, so we're going to do that again tomorrow when he gets reset. The foot soreness seems to be a byproduct of the hind end soreness so I'm hoping that fixing the SI and anything else necessary will take care of the feet as well because he won't be compensating and putting more stress on his front feet. |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | To me, he came in looking to run to the right. His stride was also very short from the normal videos you post.
I think there is still something in the front sore.. He will have to get used to using himself correctly again. You will have to make him do it right for a couple weeks. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | clover girl - 2014-04-21 4:13 PM To me, he came in looking to run to the right. His stride was also very short from the normal videos you post.
I think there is still something in the front sore.. He will have to get used to using himself correctly again. You will have to make him do it right for a couple weeks.
Funny you say he was looking right because the next morning he switched to the right lead as we went in the alley and we proceeded to look really stupid with me committed to going left and him running down the middle of the pen on the right lead. Let's just say I won't be posting that video publicly. Sunday in the bonus round, I had to micromanage everything he did which was beyond frustrating. I never felt like I could turn loose and hustle because he was not being honest. Can't tell if he was just ****ed about the change in the weather (it dropped 30 degrees from Saturday night to Sunday and poured 3 inches between 8 and 11 a.m.) and having to stand in a stall for a couple hours before we ran. I do know he was in a rotten mood from the time I put him in a stall until I got him home.
He will have to get used to using himself correctly again. You will have to make him do it right for a couple weeks.
This is my dilemma - Is he just getting used to NOT being sore or is he still sore? I don't want to put any more runs on him if he's still sore, but how do I figure that out other than by running him? He feels a lot more fluid and smoother when I ride at home, but I don't know if he's as fluid and smooth as he can be. |
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The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | He will have to get used to using himself correctly again. You will have to make him do it right for a couple weeks.
This is my dilemma - Is he just getting used to NOT being sore or is he still sore? I don't want to put any more runs on him if he's still sore, but how do I figure that out other than by running him? He feels a lot more fluid and smoother when I ride at home, but I don't know if he's as fluid and smooth as he can be
From my experience, after one has run in pain for any amount of time, you have to force them to make the move correctly off the pattern. Really ask him to collect up and turn on his hind end slow. I usually breezed mine down the arena and asked them to turn (after I showed them at a slower speed it wouldn't hurt). After a week of tuning, then take him and make a run.
I do agree that he looks like something is still off in the front. Does he feel liek he is reaching out when you warm him up? Can you ask him to reach out more with the front feet at a trot?
Edited by clover girl 2014-04-21 4:38 PM
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | clover girl - 2014-04-21 4:37 PM He will have to get used to using himself correctly again. You will have to make him do it right for a couple weeks.
This is my dilemma - Is he just getting used to NOT being sore or is he still sore? I don't want to put any more runs on him if he's still sore, but how do I figure that out other than by running him? He feels a lot more fluid and smoother when I ride at home, but I don't know if he's as fluid and smooth as he can be
From my experience, after one has run in pain for any amount of time, you have to force them to make the move correctly off the pattern. Really ask him to collect up and turn on his hind end slow. I usually breezed mine down the arena and asked them to turn (after I showed them at a slower speed it wouldn't hurt). After a week of tuning, then take him and make a run.
I do agree that he looks like something is still off in the front. Does he feel liek he is reaching out when you warm him up? Can you ask him to reach out more with the front feet at a trot?
I don't know how he was moving when we warmed up at Lincoln. That third day he was wound for sound and I actually had to leave the warmup barn because he was growling and trying to run off. I'm not quite sure how to make him reach out more with the front feet at a trot. Care to explain how you'd go about that? |
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The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | Honestly I don't know how to make a horse do it. I can usually get it done when I am riding, but I can't explain how to do it. You want to get them in an extended trot. It really makes them work every muscle. That is how I can tell if one is hurting in there feet, they don't want to put that much pressure out there.
This video shows the difference at the beginning. You want him to reach with those front feet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_0SSO_QQ_Q |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | clover girl - 2014-04-21 4:54 PM Honestly I don't know how to make a horse do it. I can usually get it done when I am riding, but I can't explain how to do it. You want to get them in an extended trot. It really makes them work every muscle. That is how I can tell if one is hurting in there feet, they don't want to put that much pressure out there.
This video shows the difference at the beginning. You want him to reach with those front feet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_0SSO_QQ_Q
Ok I can get him into an extended trot, I think. If nothing else, I can take him to town and throw out the saddle club's ground poles to give him a visual and make him reach to get over each log. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | He's still sore. On the first barrel, he's striding really short with his back feet....more up and down instead of forward....almost stabbing them...and then runs across the pen with both back feet together instead of using them separately to push...in fact, he's not wanting to use his back end much at all...I'd guess now maybe hocks need injected or stifles blistered or maybe both. And maybe get a new vet.  |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | dianeguinn - 2014-04-21 5:28 PM He's still sore. On the first barrel, he's striding really short with his back feet....more up and down instead of forward....almost stabbing them...and then runs across the pen with both back feet together instead of using them separately to push...in fact, he's not wanting to use his back end much at all...I'd guess now maybe hocks need injected or stifles blistered or maybe both. And maybe get a new vet.
I wish I had another close vet that worked on horses at all. It's going to be next Wednesday before I can take him anywhere else because all the other horse vets are 2+ hours away so I figured it was best to start with the vet 30 miles away and then do a bigger trip if needed. At the rate I'm going, I'm never going to be able to run Chance this year.  |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Get someone who knows what they are doing to check his whorlbones, its actually a bursa. In my experience if they have had back end issues for any amount of time they will be sore there too.
Also, anytime we get a sore horse in to rehab we usually condition them for a good two months or more before asking them to perform again. That is after we have fixed whatever needs to be fixed. We may breeze them during that time just to insure we have covered all our bases but it takes time to work the residual soreness out and get them moving correctly again.
Not what you want to hear but trust me, waiting til they are really right is much easier in the long run than wasting runs on your horse and beating your head against the wall. Don't ask me how I know that, lol. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| My gelding wich about a month ago had hock fusion surgery on both hocks he was nubbing his rear toes and not running and balking at the gate at the colional nation horse show i bought some oxymax joint suppliment and had him on previcox the whole week before, when i carried him several days later to,the vet that helpped him not to be so sore. the vet flexed, flexed and lunged and troted he really didnot show that sore went to another show 3weeks latter horse was more sore carried to another vet he thermoscaned and only one hock show hot so that vet didnot xray but one hock he also,showed sore in his heels and the vet i carried him back to tested him no soreness she said and i believe he was trying to get off his rear. So i called one vet who,got it wrong and she told me not to give him one once of anything bring him on she spent and had another vet with her the whole time to flex every joint on the front feet and back legs see what we see. Well good news both lower hocks where onlymthing she could see. We did surgery and he is not his feet are long reaching and overstepping and hitting his front feet. I will get to ride him in 12 days. He already looks better when i let him out he just looks more confortable. Only thing he has been sore for,so long, i dont know jntil i start riding him what else he could be hiding that is sore. I have spent tons of money and he must have a high pain theshold, he just would not run hard, injected him and he did not improve, started balking at the gate and sometimes he would take me away from the arena just would turn around, but when he did that could lead him in the alley and he is 16 hands and i have bad knees, i could drop the rein on his neck get on him and cluck to him and he would run. When i think about it, he really could have hurt me or run off. He had beautiful barrels. Made me think a lot of the horse. He kinda earned his place for life, the the vet that said his suspories, before the surgery had his suspensories ultrasounded. Will let you know how he does. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Barnmom - 2014-04-21 7:32 PM Get someone who knows what they are doing to check his whorlbones, its actually a bursa. In my experience if they have had back end issues for any amount of time they will be sore there too.
Also, anytime we get a sore horse in to rehab we usually condition them for a good two months or more before asking them to perform again. That is after we have fixed whatever needs to be fixed. We may breeze them during that time just to insure we have covered all our bases but it takes time to work the residual soreness out and get them moving correctly again.
Not what you want to hear but trust me, waiting til they are really right is much easier in the long run than wasting runs on your horse and beating your head against the wall. Don't ask me how I know that, lol.
I have a feeling his 2014 season is about done before it even got started. We have made 8 runs all year and it doesn't look like run #9 is coming up anytime soon. He may be my little brother's western pleasure horse at the county fair this year after all. |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| cheryl makofka - 2014-04-21 1:17 PM Do you have any videos early on in his career? I say yes he is still sore on the back right leg as he is still coming out of his second and third barrel on the left back lead. If he is still sore on the front right, what is the diagnosis and prognosis?
I saw this as well and not wanting to stretch out behind, keeping his hind legs up under him.
Can't speculate on what it is because there are too many possibilities. In my history it's been a number of things; sore back, hocks, SI, whorlbones, stifles, and most recently, bilateral hind suspensory injuries. Which was hard to find because 2 vets kept saying hocks.
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I think he looks terrible. Sorry but you wanted honesty. He is short stride and he never drops his head and looks comfortable. Just looks stressed and stiff.
I haven't kept up with your posts/threads so I don't know all the story or what you have and haven't done with him. But when you say he is sore on a front foot, per the pads etc, have you actually had his front feet looked at? Xrayed? We thought for the longest time my mare was sore in behind. Turned out to all stem from a front foot issue. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | missroselee - 2014-04-21 9:49 PM I think he looks terrible. Sorry but you wanted honesty. He is short stride and he never drops his head and looks comfortable. Just looks stressed and stiff. I haven't kept up with your posts/threads so I don't know all the story or what you have and haven't done with him. But when you say he is sore on a front foot, per the pads etc, have you actually had his front feet looked at? Xrayed? We thought for the longest time my mare was sore in behind. Turned out to all stem from a front foot issue.
Oh the front feet are thoroughly examined every time he goes to the vet clinic nearest me. We've x-rayed many times and the only thing we can really determine is that his feet aren't very big and I think maybe his pasterns are kinda straight so the feet take a real pounding when he runs. Therefore he lives in magnetic bell boots, wears Soft Rides anytime he's in the trailer or tied to it at a jackpot or rodeo, and I avoid gravel & pavement like the plague.
Also, last November, we had his navicular bursa injected in both front feet to try and relieve the constant pain. Looking back, that was probably a band aid for a problem that started elsewhere, but it probably didn't hurt since the feet have been such a mess.
This is probably part of the problem in finding what hurts him - but he never ever refuses to go in the gate and he acts depressed if I leave without him. He'll run the fence for 20 minutes while I load other horses, nickering and having a fit. Since he's not buddy sour at all, I can only assume he wants to go. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 10:05 PM
missroselee - 2014-04-21 9:49 PM I think he looks terrible. Sorry but you wanted honesty. He is short stride and he never drops his head and looks comfortable. Just looks stressed and stiff. I haven't kept up with your posts/threads so I don't know all the story or what you have and haven't done with him. But when you say he is sore on a front foot, per the pads etc, have you actually had his front feet looked at? Xrayed? We thought for the longest time my mare was sore in behind. Turned out to all stem from a front foot issue.
Oh the front feet are thoroughly examined every time he goes to the vet clinic nearest me. We've x-rayed many times and the only thing we can really determine is that his feet aren't very big and I think maybe his pasterns are kinda straight so the feet take a real pounding when he runs. Therefore he lives in magnetic bell boots, wears Soft Rides anytime he's in the trailer or tied to it at a jackpot or rodeo, and I avoid gravel & pavement like the plague.
Also, last November, we had his navicular bursa injected in both front feet to try and relieve the constant pain. Looking back, that was probably a band aid for a problem that started elsewhere, but it probably didn't hurt since the feet have been such a mess.
This is probably part of the problem in finding what hurts him - but he never ever refuses to go in the gate and he acts depressed if I leave without him. He'll run the fence for 20 minutes while I load other horses, nickering and having a fit. Since he's not buddy sour at all, I can only assume he wants to go.
straight pasterns and small feet would make me think he possibly has his own issues on the front end and it's not just from compensation.
Are you 100% the pain in his front right is from the foot in origin? What blocks does your vet do? Have you ever radiographed farther up on his front leg?
if a PD blocks out the pain in his front foot that places it somewhere in the heel or sole of the foot, but not the toe.
Abaxial knocks out everything from the pastern down
Low 4 point gets the fetlock, pastern, and foot
High 4 point starts getting your SDFT, DDFT, Suspensory starting mostly down the cannon bone.
I've been told in the past one of mine was compensating and was sore in the hind end… She actually had a torn oblique distal sesamoidean ligament on her front end, and her hind end was not the issue.. the hocks were secondary.
Have you ever had his hocks or stifles looked at? |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | If X-rays are the only thing you have done to his front end, you may want to consider MRI. Horses can have serious issues going on in the front end, or both for that matter, that won't show up just on X-rays. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | casualdust07 - 2014-04-21 10:13 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 10:05 PM missroselee - 2014-04-21 9:49 PM I think he looks terrible. Sorry but you wanted honesty. He is short stride and he never drops his head and looks comfortable. Just looks stressed and stiff. I haven't kept up with your posts/threads so I don't know all the story or what you have and haven't done with him. But when you say he is sore on a front foot, per the pads etc, have you actually had his front feet looked at? Xrayed? We thought for the longest time my mare was sore in behind. Turned out to all stem from a front foot issue. Oh the front feet are thoroughly examined every time he goes to the vet clinic nearest me. We've x-rayed many times and the only thing we can really determine is that his feet aren't very big and I think maybe his pasterns are kinda straight so the feet take a real pounding when he runs. Therefore he lives in magnetic bell boots, wears Soft Rides anytime he's in the trailer or tied to it at a jackpot or rodeo, and I avoid gravel & pavement like the plague.
Also, last November, we had his navicular bursa injected in both front feet to try and relieve the constant pain. Looking back, that was probably a band aid for a problem that started elsewhere, but it probably didn't hurt since the feet have been such a mess.
This is probably part of the problem in finding what hurts him - but he never ever refuses to go in the gate and he acts depressed if I leave without him. He'll run the fence for 20 minutes while I load other horses, nickering and having a fit. Since he's not buddy sour at all, I can only assume he wants to go. straight pasterns and small feet would make me think he possibly has his own issues on the front end and it's not just from compensation. Are you 100% the pain in his front right is from the foot in origin? What blocks does your vet do? Have you ever radiographed farther up on his front leg? if a PD blocks out the pain in his front foot that places it somewhere in the heel or sole of the foot, but not the toe. Abaxial knocks out everything from the pastern down Low 4 point gets the fetlock, pastern, and foot High 4 point starts getting your SDFT, DDFT, Suspensory starting mostly down the cannon bone. I've been told in the past one of mine was compensating and was sore in the hind end… She actually had a torn oblique distal sesamoidean ligament on her front end, and her hind end was not the issue.. the hocks were secondary. Have you ever had his hocks or stifles looked at?
I have no idea where the front foot pain originates. It's very low grade and is just across the frog & heels right now.The toe isn't sore at all, and you have to really get after him with hoof testers to get a response even near the frog or heels. Even then, it's not an OW!!!!! response, just kind of an annoyed look from him.
March 6, we blocked all along that front leg and couldn't isolate the pain anywhere. Started low to see if it was in the foot, then worked up and did a couple more blocks. The second block was somewhere around the ankle and it got a slight improvement but didn't have him completely sound trotting little circles on gravel.
I've asked about hocks & stifles many times because that's what everyone on here says anytime a barrel horse isn't working, but we can't get any response to flexion tests and when there is a response in the front end, we wind up trying to fix the front feet so we can hopefully see if there's a problem elsewhere. Which of course we can never find and he never stops trying to work. If he would just stop mid-run when the pain hit, maybe we could figure out what actually hurt and fix it!
I'm going to try and get an appointment for a complete lameness exam and whatever else is necessary at a different vet next Wednesday (next day I will have any time) so hopefully we can get to the bottom of it and maybe have him back before the end of the year. I swear I'm done pre-entering things on him. Every time I do this year, we find more stuff that needs fixed. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | while your getting the front looked at Id xray the hocks .. he looks like hes the type that will run his heart out for you even in pain . Id not second guess and let him run anymore until you got to the bottom of it. if he was mine hed be done for the season until i got him 100% |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Bibliafarm - 2014-04-21 10:27 PM
while your getting the front looked at Id xray the hocks .. he looks like hes the type that will run his heart out for you even in pain . Id not second guess and let him run anymore until you got to the bottom of it. if he was mine hed be done for the season until i got him 100%
He will! I've been going back through all our old videos and trying to see when we have fallen, and so far I've seen a fall from June 23, 2012, one from Aug. 24, 2012, and then Sept. 21, 2013. Pretty sure we went to the vet after each of those - he has a file at the nearest vet clinic that probably weighs 50 pounds with all the times we've been there in the last 3 years - but he really has not been himself since the last one. I don't know if there was stuff wrong before that, maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back. If/when he comes back, he's only running at the good ground rodeos. Clifford can tackle the shallower junk, maybe on shallower ground he will be able to slide past the barrels instead of hitting them! lol.
He's not running until we get stuff fixed. I thought we had him feeling great when we went to Lincoln last weekend and he worked terrible up there. Of course state NBHA fees were due the day we left for Lincoln, so now I either have to get Joker feeling great for a pen he doesn't like, or get Streak prepared. UGH. I really like pre-entries that are a week in advance, not 4 weeks. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Make sure your vet lunges him both ways at a trot. Not just in a straight line. A circle will show if there is pain in ankles,feet . Then have him flex test him. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 10:40 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-21 10:27 PM
while your getting the front looked at Id xray the hocks .. he looks like hes the type that will run his heart out for you even in pain . Id not second guess and let him run anymore until you got to the bottom of it. if he was mine hed be done for the season until i got him 100% He will! I've been going back through all our old videos and trying to see when we have fallen, and so far I've seen a fall from June 23, 2012, one from Aug. 24, 2012, and then Sept. 21, 2013. Pretty sure we went to the vet after each of those - he has a file at the nearest vet clinic that probably weighs 50 pounds with all the times we've been there in the last 3 years - but he really has not been himself since the last one. I don't know if there was stuff wrong before that, maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back. If/when he comes back, he's only running at the good ground rodeos. Clifford can tackle the shallower junk, maybe on shallower ground he will be able to slide past the barrels instead of hitting them! lol.
He's not running until we get stuff fixed. I thought we had him feeling great when we went to Lincoln last weekend and he worked terrible up there. Of course state NBHA fees were due the day we left for Lincoln, so now I either have to get Joker feeling great for a pen he doesn't like, or get Streak prepared. UGH. I really like pre-entries that are a week in advance, not 4 weeks.
I think a big part of the problem is that he hasn't had enough time off after you've pin pointed a problem. It sounds like you were asking yourself the question, "Is he still sore?" and then you go ahead and run him anyway, so now you are back at square one. I thought he looked sore before you had that fall, actually. I think right now you are just taking shots in the dark trying to figure out what's wrong, and then even if you have it nailed down, you aren't giving him enough time off after he's injected. I assume you still had to keep him legged up after he was injected, and you ran him 10 days later. Your idea of taking him to a new vet sounds like a good one. I'd just wipe the slate clean and start from square one with a good vet who has a good reputation for evaluating and treating lameness. If the vet finds something and treats it and says he needs say 2-3 months off, err on the long side and give him 3 months off.
I have another question: Is Joker your "old reliable" rodeo horse? Has he been sound? |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | You want brutal honesty? You knowingly admit through your posts that this horse has continued to be sore and has you stumped. So why are you still running him and hoping for the best?
If you are serious about getting this figured out, you need to back off until you do. Running him over and over while not knowing for sure why he is hurting is not only a waste of your time and money, but detrimental and unfair to your horse.
Just my opinion, but you need to get off of him, cut him some slack, and get it figured out since it's very obvious he is still a very sore horse. Don't hesitate to get a different vet and different opinions. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I would be taking him to a university or hospital where they have the ability to utilize diagnostic imaging to confirm what is at the root of the soreness from a pathology standpoint.
I don't think going back to your local vet would be prudent at this point in time |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | BTW to answer the OP:
I do think he looks sore... he swaps leads with the hind and looks like he is sort stepping while traveling to the first barrel, and then hopping around the barrels, too.
His front looks sore also. Looks like that is why he steps out on the third and goes a little wide. Could be from compensating for his hind end soreness but could also be another issue.
Hope you get him figured out! He looks like he's really trying but in pain.... does not look like he's cheating you at all. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Joker is my old reliable but I can't put a lot of runs on him because he's 21 now. He just can't handle an intense schedule and it seems like 3 runs in a weekend is too much for him. I have until next Monday to draw Chance out of state NBHA if I don't think Streak will be ready so at least there's that "silver lining."
Chance hasn't run hardly at all this year - 8 runs total. When I'm being told by more than one vet that he's OK to run, I don't feel like I've been stupid for running a few times with what I knew at the time. Now it looks like I was stupid to even try and run him at all this year or last. But hindsight is always 20/20.
I was told by the vet who did Chance's injections that 12 days after injections was about perfect timing to run him, otherwise I wouldn't have taken him to Lincoln at all. Heck the chiropractor/vet who initially found the SI soreness said I could run him four days later. But I didn't. I subbed Joker in at that weekend's races and gave Chance complete rest until 5 days after his SI injections. He had no forced exercise between March 15th and April 6th. NONE. I didn't ride him or even pony him with the others.
If you all thought he was sore last summer, why the heck was that never mentioned when I posted videos from August trying to figure out why we weren't placing at rodeos? Why is everyone attacking me now when they had the opportunity to mention all the things they think have been wrong for a year a long time ago? I guess I'm just frustrated by the whole situation. I don't want to run a sore horse but I'm not a lameness expert so I can't tell when the lameness isn't obvious just riding at home or by watching a video of him running. Believe me, I watch his videos 700 times but I apparently just don't have the eye for stuff like others do. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I dont think she asked for BRUTAL honesty? Maybe a little advice but I agree in part with HBL and MissR- and some of the others. I know many who keep running and hoping, she is not the only one who does this:)
Also- it is not feesable for most to do an MRI if they dont have insurance, a rich husband, a trust fund or a high paying job but that would be a great tool to use- believe me- I wish I could use an MRI as part of a prepurchase exam after having 5 done over the years.
I say go to a vet with a Lameness Locator- there are three in NE Okla and it would be worth the money (which isnt huge $$) and you may be able to determine if the front is primary or secondary as well as the hocks ect. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 9:25 AM Joker is my old reliable but I can't put a lot of runs on him because he's 21 now. He just can't handle an intense schedule and it seems like 3 runs in a weekend is too much for him. I have until next Monday to draw Chance out of state NBHA if I don't think Streak will be ready so at least there's that "silver lining."
Chance hasn't run hardly at all this year - 8 runs total. When I'm being told by more than one vet that he's OK to run, I don't feel like I've been stupid for running a few times with what I knew at the time. Now it looks like I was stupid to even try and run him at all this year or last. But hindsight is always 20/20.
I was told by the vet who did Chance's injections that 12 days after injections was about perfect timing to run him, otherwise I wouldn't have taken him to Lincoln at all. Heck the chiropractor/vet who initially found the SI soreness said I could run him four days later. But I didn't. I subbed Joker in at that weekend's races and gave Chance complete rest until 5 days after his SI injections. He had no forced exercise between March 15th and April 6th. NONE. I didn't ride him or even pony him with the others.
If you all thought he was sore last summer, why the heck was that never mentioned when I posted videos from August trying to figure out why we weren't placing at rodeos? Why is everyone attacking me now when they had the opportunity to mention all the things they think have been wrong for a year a long time ago? I guess I'm just frustrated by the whole situation. I don't want to run a sore horse but I'm not a lameness expert so I can't tell when the lameness isn't obvious just riding at home or by watching a video of him running. Believe me, I watch his videos 700 times but I apparently just don't have the eye for stuff like others do.
First of all, don't come on here attacking the board members for not point out LAST SUMMER that your horse was sore. It is not our job to tell you, and we are not vets. Also, many of us, myself included, have not even kept up with your posts so know nothing about your situation. I for one don't spend much time on here except for early morning or late night when I have a few minutes. I work three jobs and train my own horses, and haul down the road every weekend.
I do have a few questions for you, how old are you? I think you sound very young, I would guess 18-25. I could be wrong. The reason I ask is because you are so worried about the here and now. You have your whole life ahead of you to run barrels. You had better figure out real quick that there is a time and a place to back off, take a break, and stop worrying about making the next race at all costs. If one horse is too old, one is too young, and one is too sore, then stay home.
My current open horse is running solid 1D. He would have been 6th out of 220 last saturday had I not kicked over the third barrel. He was in the top 5 in the 1D on two other runs, and won the 2D against some very very tough horses a few weeks ago. He has every right to be running the BBR finals but I have learned the hard way when to say no and bide my time and patience. I just had surgery in March and I knew it was not going to be fair to point him to the BBR finals with everything going on, even though he's running better then ever.
Take a deep breath, quit worrying about making the next race, and figure out your horse before it's too late. |
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 Living within my means
Posts: 5128
Location: Randolph, Utah | I would get a second opinion from a different vet than you have been going to.
Sometimes it's worth hauling a few hours to get a 2nd opinion from a good equine vet.
And I would turn him out until you can get into a vet and get some answers. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | TurnLane - 2014-04-22 9:29 AM I dont think she asked for BRUTAL honesty? Maybe a little advice but I agree in part with HBL and MissR- and some of the others. I know many who keep running and hoping, she is not the only one who does this:)
Also- it is not feesable for most to do an MRI if they dont have insurance, a rich husband, a trust fund or a high paying job but that would be a great tool to use- believe me- I wish I could use an MRI as part of a prepurchase exam after having 5 done over the years.
I say go to a vet with a Lameness Locator- there are three in NE Okla and it would be worth the money (which isnt huge $$) and you may be able to determine if the front is primary or secondary as well as the hocks ect.
I agree, but I use the term brutal honesty to prepare the OP for what I'm about to say because I don't feel like it would come across as pleasant.
And trust me, I feel you on the MRI. I can't afford one. My best mare was never lame, but was hitting barrel really bad for a long time. We kept doing xrays and I only ran her a handful of times over the course of two years after certain treatments to see if they worked. Which they never did. I took her for a third set of xrays last August and you could finally see a very very slight change on one navicular bone. The best diagnosis tool would have been an MRI. I think they START at 2500. Now if she was my only horse I would have found a way to pay it to have any shot at keeping her going. But fortunately for me I have other horses to run. So I opted out of the MRI because the treatment plan would have been the same no matter what. She is now retired to a broodmare. Sound thankfully :)
I just feel like the OP is young and I don't want to see her learn the hard way to learn to take a deep breath and skip a few races for the sake of her horses. I know what it's like to want every single race. Been there, done that. But I've also learned the hard way to back off and that it pays more in the end to do so |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | dianeguinn - 2014-04-21 5:28 PM He's still sore. On the first barrel, he's striding really short with his back feet....more up and down instead of forward....almost stabbing them...and then runs across the pen with both back feet together instead of using them separately to push...in fact, he's not wanting to use his back end much at all...I'd guess now maybe hocks need injected or stifles blistered or maybe both. And maybe get a new vet.
I think I may have advised DG to try the Lameness Locator and it helped her from what she said with a horse that had hard to detect primary issues? And maybe a friend of hers as well. They went to Dr Propp in Pryor. And again- it is not too costly as a starting point. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Also to the OP, are you happy and secure with your farrier and the work he is doing? I wouldn't know since I don't know you but sometimes poor shoeing/bad angles can account for soreness as well. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | TurnLane - 2014-04-22 9:41 AM dianeguinn - 2014-04-21 5:28 PM He's still sore. On the first barrel, he's striding really short with his back feet....more up and down instead of forward....almost stabbing them...and then runs across the pen with both back feet together instead of using them separately to push...in fact, he's not wanting to use his back end much at all...I'd guess now maybe hocks need injected or stifles blistered or maybe both. And maybe get a new vet.
I had a friend who used the lameness locater at Oak Ridge to pinpoint an issue with her 1D mare. Her vet bill was less than mine that day, and I only xrayed both front feet and ultrasounded a hock (ligament issue). So it's not as expensive as it sounds. More time consuming than anything depending on how hard it is to detect where they are sore. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Ok, I don't mean to sound rude about your vet, and this might not be the situation, but it happened to me so I am wary of it.
I almost wonder if your vet is stringing you along a bit.
Happened to me, so that is why I say this (colic, not lameness, but sort of similar sitch). My horse coliced month after month in a short period of time. My local vet kept coming out, charging me a mint, and treating the symptoms, but never mentioned to me that he needed diagnostics or that I needed to find the cause... he would sure take my money though. LOL... so eventually I did research on my own and took him to the university. I thought it would be cost prohibitive, but it wasn't. In the end it likely save my horse's life.
Anyway, some vets are all to happy to tell you what you want to hear so you keep coming back and don't seek answers elsewhere- thereby ensuring they get more of your money in the future. Not saying your vet is doing this to you, but it's possible- it happened to me! Also side note, I don't think I've seen your videos before the thread you posted the last time, so Idk if he was sore in the past. |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I wish we could find a support group that is kind and helpful rather than all knowing and rude----- I wonder where that place would be?  |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| barrelracr131 - 2014-04-22 8:00 AM
I would be taking him to a university or hospital where they have the ability to utilize diagnostic imaging to confirm what is at the root of the soreness from a pathology standpoint.
I don't think going back to your local vet would be prudent at this point in time
^^^^^This.
I'd be on my way to Oklahoma or College Station to A&M. Sometimes, one or two vets just won't cut it. I want the whole team that TEACHES the vets. I've had three now that I've dumped out at A&M and said, "Keep them until you figure it out." Sometimes it's six hours, one time it was three days, but I had an answer and a treatment plan, either way, they found the problem, and each time it had been totally overlooked locally. Not every teaching facility is equal, either. My big brown gelding was one that CSU totally bombed, and A&M nailed the problem in two hours.
I plan on keeping this habit. $600 in diesel and $1500 in vet bills is often a lot cheaper then hauling and trying to henpeck a sore horse one injection at a time. That's my thought, having been here and done that. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | TurnLane - 2014-04-22 9:48 AM I wish we could find a support group that is kind and helpful rather than all knowing and rude----- I wonder where that place would be?
I may sound rude, but if I wasn't trying to be helpful I wouldn't be posting at all. Some times it is hard to sugar coat things when it comes to sore horses. Yes there are some very very rude things on this board. But I think sometimes my posts get mistaken as rude when they are more aggressive then anything.
If I didn't give a hoot, I wouldn't bother posting. |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | Melanie -
You really should consult your vet concerning this instead of asking for opinions here. I am sorry, but NO ONE can diagnose lameness from watching a video of a run. You can guess at what might be wrong, but you cannot diagnose it. Take him back to the vet who did the injections, or if you don't think you want to rely on his opinion, find another one and get a proper diagnosis. That would be my suggestion to you. Don't run this horse until you know he is sound, the horse's long term health is more important than missing a rodeo or two. |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 6:56 PM dianeguinn - 2014-04-21 5:28 PM He's still sore. On the first barrel, he's striding really short with his back feet....more up and down instead of forward....almost stabbing them...and then runs across the pen with both back feet together instead of using them separately to push...in fact, he's not wanting to use his back end much at all...I'd guess now maybe hocks need injected or stifles blistered or maybe both. And maybe get a new vet.
I am just going to add this.
Every single time I have thought my horse was sore, but chose to dink around with local vets instead of biting the bullet and driving the 200+ miles to a good vet, I have wasted hundreds of dollars and months of time when my horse could have been healing, instead of still trying the myriad of guesses on why they were sore. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | OP where are you located? Oak Ridge in OK did an amazing job diagnosing two difficult horses......and I know there are several other vets in OK and surrounding areas just as good if not better. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | classicpotatochip - 2014-04-22 8:48 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-04-22 8:00 AM I would be taking him to a university or hospital where they have the ability to utilize diagnostic imaging to confirm what is at the root of the soreness from a pathology standpoint.
I don't think going back to your local vet would be prudent at this point in time ^^^^^This. I'd be on my way to Oklahoma or College Station to A&M. Sometimes, one or two vets just won't cut it. I want the whole team that TEACHES the vets. I've had three now that I've dumped out at A&M and said, "Keep them until you figure it out." Sometimes it's six hours, one time it was three days, but I had an answer and a treatment plan, either way, they found the problem, and each time it had been totally overlooked locally. Not every teaching facility is equal, either. My big brown gelding was one that CSU totally bombed, and A&M nailed the problem in two hours. I plan on keeping this habit. $600 in diesel and $1500 in vet bills is often a lot cheaper then hauling and trying to henpeck a sore horse one injection at a time. That's my thought, having been here and done that.
ETA: The clinic I went to was 3 hours of driving.. the other one is 4 I believe. It was worth it though, despite the long day. But I feel your pain on the option issue
Edited by barrelracr131 2014-04-22 9:17 AM
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 10:40 PM . Pretty sure we went to the vet after each of those - he has a file at the nearest vet clinic that probably weighs 50 pounds with all the times we've been there in the last 3 years - but he really has not been himself since the last one.
^^^ THIS is what jumped out at me....I would get a NEW vet........and stay completely off of him until he is 100% sound....that would mean NO western pleasure either! |
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 There Could Be Aliens Out There
Posts: 1393
Location: North Central Kansas | Oklahoma is probably closer, but Dr. Brunk in Grand Island, NE is an excellent lameness vet. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 8:25 AM
Joker is my old reliable but I can't put a lot of runs on him because he's 21 now. He just can't handle an intense schedule and it seems like 3 runs in a weekend is too much for him. I have until next Monday to draw Chance out of state NBHA if I don't think Streak will be ready so at least there's that "silver lining."
Chance hasn't run hardly at all this year - 8 runs total. When I'm being told by more than one vet that he's OK to run, I don't feel like I've been stupid for running a few times with what I knew at the time. Now it looks like I was stupid to even try and run him at all this year or last. But hindsight is always 20/20.
I was told by the vet who did Chance's injections that 12 days after injections was about perfect timing to run him, otherwise I wouldn't have taken him to Lincoln at all. Heck the chiropractor/vet who initially found the SI soreness said I could run him four days later. But I didn't. I subbed Joker in at that weekend's races and gave Chance complete rest until 5 days after his SI injections. He had no forced exercise between March 15th and April 6th. NONE. I didn't ride him or even pony him with the others.
If you all thought he was sore last summer, why the heck was that never mentioned when I posted videos from August trying to figure out why we weren't placing at rodeos? Why is everyone attacking me now when they had the opportunity to mention all the things they think have been wrong for a year a long time ago? I guess I'm just frustrated by the whole situation. I don't want to run a sore horse but I'm not a lameness expert so I can't tell when the lameness isn't obvious just riding at home or by watching a video of him running. Believe me, I watch his videos 700 times but I apparently just don't have the eye for stuff like others do.
It sucks when our own horses are sore, and it is very difficult for us to see the problems with our own horses, as we are looking at everything horse and rider.
As for vets, that also sucks as I have taken the shorter route and it never paid off. The vet I usually use is 4 hours one way. I had a horse that was sound but had swelling in his leg, local vet cleared him said soft tissue, when in actuality it was a fractured cannon bone his X-ray never picked it up. I have learned to go with my gut, and sent the X-rays to my regular vet who was able to tell something was wrong.
Point to my story, go with your gut, you know your horse better then anyone else, if you think he is sore, he is.
I would continue riding the horse as 2 vets have cleared him so it may be subtle, with a little rest the inflammation may go down and he may not flex sore.
Also get a copy of the file to take with you, once the vet finds his diagnosis, then pull the file out and make the vet go through it to make sure nothing else is missed.
Take videos with you of the runs before the si joint injections and the most current one, this way the vet can observe what your horse is doing during a run.
Insist on X-ray and ultrasound where pertinent, do not let the vet diagnose without the proper technology to back it up. |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | missroselee - 2014-04-22 8:51 AM TurnLane - 2014-04-22 9:48 AM I wish we could find a support group that is kind and helpful rather than all knowing and rude----- I wonder where that place would be?
If I didn't give a hoot, I wouldn't bother posting.
I think you and I have a few things in common. I guess I just get confused by your tone of caring vs being agressive as you call it.
It helps me see the error of my tone and how I get mistaken for rude as well. It is not how I mean or want to be remembered. 
Anyhow- I hope you get your horse some help. Its like a puzzle and sometimes the least fun part of the sport.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 10:22 PM
casualdust07 - 2014-04-21 10:13 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 10:05 PM missroselee - 2014-04-21 9:49 PM I think he looks terrible. Sorry but you wanted honesty. He is short stride and he never drops his head and looks comfortable. Just looks stressed and stiff. I haven't kept up with your posts/threads so I don't know all the story or what you have and haven't done with him. But when you say he is sore on a front foot, per the pads etc, have you actually had his front feet looked at? Xrayed? We thought for the longest time my mare was sore in behind. Turned out to all stem from a front foot issue. Oh the front feet are thoroughly examined every time he goes to the vet clinic nearest me. We've x-rayed many times and the only thing we can really determine is that his feet aren't very big and I think maybe his pasterns are kinda straight so the feet take a real pounding when he runs. Therefore he lives in magnetic bell boots, wears Soft Rides anytime he's in the trailer or tied to it at a jackpot or rodeo, and I avoid gravel & pavement like the plague.
Also, last November, we had his navicular bursa injected in both front feet to try and relieve the constant pain. Looking back, that was probably a band aid for a problem that started elsewhere, but it probably didn't hurt since the feet have been such a mess.
This is probably part of the problem in finding what hurts him - but he never ever refuses to go in the gate and he acts depressed if I leave without him. He'll run the fence for 20 minutes while I load other horses, nickering and having a fit. Since he's not buddy sour at all, I can only assume he wants to go. straight pasterns and small feet would make me think he possibly has his own issues on the front end and it's not just from compensation. Are you 100% the pain in his front right is from the foot in origin? What blocks does your vet do? Have you ever radiographed farther up on his front leg? if a PD blocks out the pain in his front foot that places it somewhere in the heel or sole of the foot, but not the toe. Abaxial knocks out everything from the pastern down Low 4 point gets the fetlock, pastern, and foot High 4 point starts getting your SDFT, DDFT, Suspensory starting mostly down the cannon bone. I've been told in the past one of mine was compensating and was sore in the hind end… She actually had a torn oblique distal sesamoidean ligament on her front end, and her hind end was not the issue.. the hocks were secondary. Have you ever had his hocks or stifles looked at?
March 6, we blocked all along that front leg and couldn't isolate the pain anywhere. Started low to see if it was in the foot, then worked up and did a couple more blocks. The second block was somewhere around the ankle and it got a slight improvement but didn't have him completely sound trotting little circles on gravel.
I've asked about hocks & stifles many times because that's what everyone on here says anytime a barrel horse isn't working, but we can't get any response to flexion tests and when there is a response in the front end, we wind up trying to fix the front feet so we can hopefully see if there's a problem elsewhere. Which of course we can never find and he never stops trying to work. If he would just stop mid-run when the pain hit, maybe we could figure out what actually hurt and fix it!
I'm going to try and get an appointment for a complete lameness exam and whatever else is necessary at a different vet next Wednesday (next day I will have any time) so hopefully we can get to the bottom of it and maybe have him back before the end of the year. I swear I'm done pre-entering things on him. Every time I do this year, we find more stuff that needs fixed.
Can you post pictures of his front feet, as it sounds like he may have contracted heels |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-22 9:41 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 8:25 AM Joker is my old reliable but I can't put a lot of runs on him because he's 21 now. He just can't handle an intense schedule and it seems like 3 runs in a weekend is too much for him. I have until next Monday to draw Chance out of state NBHA if I don't think Streak will be ready so at least there's that "silver lining."
Chance hasn't run hardly at all this year - 8 runs total. When I'm being told by more than one vet that he's OK to run, I don't feel like I've been stupid for running a few times with what I knew at the time. Now it looks like I was stupid to even try and run him at all this year or last. But hindsight is always 20/20.
I was told by the vet who did Chance's injections that 12 days after injections was about perfect timing to run him, otherwise I wouldn't have taken him to Lincoln at all. Heck the chiropractor/vet who initially found the SI soreness said I could run him four days later. But I didn't. I subbed Joker in at that weekend's races and gave Chance complete rest until 5 days after his SI injections. He had no forced exercise between March 15th and April 6th. NONE. I didn't ride him or even pony him with the others.
If you all thought he was sore last summer, why the heck was that never mentioned when I posted videos from August trying to figure out why we weren't placing at rodeos? Why is everyone attacking me now when they had the opportunity to mention all the things they think have been wrong for a year a long time ago? I guess I'm just frustrated by the whole situation. I don't want to run a sore horse but I'm not a lameness expert so I can't tell when the lameness isn't obvious just riding at home or by watching a video of him running. Believe me, I watch his videos 700 times but I apparently just don't have the eye for stuff like others do. It sucks when our own horses are sore, and it is very difficult for us to see the problems with our own horses, as we are looking at everything horse and rider. As for vets, that also sucks as I have taken the shorter route and it never paid off. The vet I usually use is 4 hours one way. I had a horse that was sound but had swelling in his leg, local vet cleared him said soft tissue, when in actuality it was a fractured cannon bone his X-ray never picked it up. I have learned to go with my gut, and sent the X-rays to my regular vet who was able to tell something was wrong. Point to my story, go with your gut, you know your horse better then anyone else, if you think he is sore, he is. I would continue riding the horse as 2 vets have cleared him so it may be subtle, with a little rest the inflammation may go down and he may not flex sore. Also get a copy of the file to take with you, once the vet finds his diagnosis, then pull the file out and make the vet go through it to make sure nothing else is missed. Take videos with you of the runs before the si joint injections and the most current one, this way the vet can observe what your horse is doing during a run. Insist on X-ray and ultrasound where pertinent, do not let the vet diagnose without the proper technology to back it up.
The frustrating part is that I can't tell that he's sore by riding him, stretching, flexing, or watching him move at home.This is the first true 1D horse I've had so I haven't had the soreness issues that come with them until recently. I just don't have the experience to spot every little thing, especially since Chance is so tough and keeps working no matter what. If Joker hurts, he quits going in - which means its easy to tell when he's sore.
My local vet and I watched a bunch of his videos, including in slow motion, from as far back as 2012 trying to spot a difference. We can see a difference from the March 15th run to the April 11th one, which means the SI injections helped.
If I can get an appointment, I'm planning to go back to the vet who did the SI injections next week and get a full lameness exam from him. He's done great things with my boyfriend's horses so hopefully he can get to the bottom of Chance too.
I'm sorry if my last post was short but I don't remember anyone even suggesting that Chance might be sore last year and so then when people act like I've known for a year that there was a problem, I get upset.
I'm in Southeast Kansas so its a lengthy drive to anywhere with a high tech lameness vet. I showed Diane his April 11th video and she said he still looked sore, so I figured it would be easy for the local vet to spot, and its so much easier & chepaer to go 40 miles than 120 miles. I guess I thought if I could get whatever diagnosed locally, I'd save money and time, which are both in short supply around here. I mean, why pay $80 for a lameness exam and $100 in fuel if I can get the same results with a $48 lameness exam and $40 in fuel. Made sense to me. |
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Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Melanie, I don't know how far it is to Pryor from where you live, but Dr. Propp has a Lameness Locator and he found a problem with my horse that no one else did by using it. He took about 4 hours with me and my friend and was spot on with both horses....he then told us what we needed to do to fix it and said to go back to our regular vets if we wanted. I was very impressed with him and that might be the way to go with Chance. I know TurnLane has used him, as well, and was well pleased. At least that would show you ALL the exact places he's hurting instead of having to guess. It wasn't terribly expensive, either. It cost me around $250. I was shocked that 4 hours of his time was that cheap. :) You might try that next, and that way you could be sure you're not missing anything. He's in NE OK, so he might not be terribly far from you. Just my suggestion.
Edited by dianeguinn 2014-04-22 11:35 AM
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| The difference between a local vet and a lameness vet is that the lameness vet sees horses with lameness issues all day every day. A local vet only gets the occasional lameness. They just don't have the experience. I've found a local vet the I really like, but for my lameness I still haul over 5 hours one way. Getting ready to head that way again next week. My gelding is clocking better than ever and working great, but I can feel him just a little off at a trot. Most people would never even see/feel it, but I've ridden enough with lameness issues that I've become attuned to that feel. It might seem logical to start out with a local vet to save money, but you really are money ahead to just go to someone who has more experience so that you get a proper diagnosis.
As far as your horse's soreness, feel for changes in his movement. Personally, I feel like it's easier to feel at a trot, unless it's very pronounced and then you can feel it at a walk. There should be a rhythm to the movement. My current gelding is like my retired gelding, they won't quit even if they are in pain. In this case, you've got to protect them because they won't protect themselves. When my retired gelding was finally diagnosed with an MRI, the vets were amazed at the amount of damage because he was not showing that much pain and he was still clocking on the pattern.
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | dianeguinn - 2014-04-22 11:33 AM Melanie, I don't know how far it is to Pryor from where you live, but Dr. Propp has a Lameness Locator and he found a problem with my horse that no one else did by using it. He took about 4 hours with me and my friend and was spot on with both horses....he then told us what we needed to do to fix it and said to go back to our regular vets if we wanted. I was very impressed with him and that might be the way to go with Chance. I know TurnLane has used him, as well, and was well pleased. At least that would show you ALL the exact places he's hurting instead of having to guess. It wasn't terribly expensive, either. It cost me around $250. I was shocked that 4 hours of his time was that cheap. :) You might try that next, and that way you could be sure you're not missing anything. He's in NE OK, so he might not be terribly far from you. Just my suggestion.
That would be well worth it. I'm an hour north of Independence KS so Oklahoma's not a terrible drive for me. I think Tulsa was 2.5 hours. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | It may be farther up in his leg. we've blocked all the way up the shoulder joint before and still couldn't isolate anything. finally decided it was most likely a lower neck/shoulder girdle area and the best we could do was bute and stretching. that worked actually. I wasn't going to pay for a bone scan. |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 11:47 AM dianeguinn - 2014-04-22 11:33 AM Melanie, I don't know how far it is to Pryor from where you live, but Dr. Propp has a Lameness Locator and he found a problem with my horse that no one else did by using it. He took about 4 hours with me and my friend and was spot on with both horses....he then told us what we needed to do to fix it and said to go back to our regular vets if we wanted. I was very impressed with him and that might be the way to go with Chance. I know TurnLane has used him, as well, and was well pleased. At least that would show you ALL the exact places he's hurting instead of having to guess. It wasn't terribly expensive, either. It cost me around $250. I was shocked that 4 hours of his time was that cheap. :) You might try that next, and that way you could be sure you're not missing anything. He's in NE OK, so he might not be terribly far from you. Just my suggestion. That would be well worth it. I'm an hour north of Independence KS so Oklahoma's not a terrible drive for me. I think Tulsa was 2.5 hours.
Dr. Propp also found a tough soft tissue issue for me with the Lameness Locator as well. For sure is something I would consider! |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-22 10:03 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 10:22 PM casualdust07 - 2014-04-21 10:13 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 10:05 PM missroselee - 2014-04-21 9:49 PM I think he looks terrible. Sorry but you wanted honesty. He is short stride and he never drops his head and looks comfortable. Just looks stressed and stiff. I haven't kept up with your posts/threads so I don't know all the story or what you have and haven't done with him. But when you say he is sore on a front foot, per the pads etc, have you actually had his front feet looked at? Xrayed? We thought for the longest time my mare was sore in behind. Turned out to all stem from a front foot issue. Oh the front feet are thoroughly examined every time he goes to the vet clinic nearest me. We've x-rayed many times and the only thing we can really determine is that his feet aren't very big and I think maybe his pasterns are kinda straight so the feet take a real pounding when he runs. Therefore he lives in magnetic bell boots, wears Soft Rides anytime he's in the trailer or tied to it at a jackpot or rodeo, and I avoid gravel & pavement like the plague.
Also, last November, we had his navicular bursa injected in both front feet to try and relieve the constant pain. Looking back, that was probably a band aid for a problem that started elsewhere, but it probably didn't hurt since the feet have been such a mess.
This is probably part of the problem in finding what hurts him - but he never ever refuses to go in the gate and he acts depressed if I leave without him. He'll run the fence for 20 minutes while I load other horses, nickering and having a fit. Since he's not buddy sour at all, I can only assume he wants to go. straight pasterns and small feet would make me think he possibly has his own issues on the front end and it's not just from compensation. Are you 100% the pain in his front right is from the foot in origin? What blocks does your vet do? Have you ever radiographed farther up on his front leg? if a PD blocks out the pain in his front foot that places it somewhere in the heel or sole of the foot, but not the toe. Abaxial knocks out everything from the pastern down Low 4 point gets the fetlock, pastern, and foot High 4 point starts getting your SDFT, DDFT, Suspensory starting mostly down the cannon bone. I've been told in the past one of mine was compensating and was sore in the hind end… She actually had a torn oblique distal sesamoidean ligament on her front end, and her hind end was not the issue.. the hocks were secondary. Have you ever had his hocks or stifles looked at?
March 6, we blocked all along that front leg and couldn't isolate the pain anywhere. Started low to see if it was in the foot, then worked up and did a couple more blocks. The second block was somewhere around the ankle and it got a slight improvement but didn't have him completely sound trotting little circles on gravel.
I've asked about hocks & stifles many times because that's what everyone on here says anytime a barrel horse isn't working, but we can't get any response to flexion tests and when there is a response in the front end, we wind up trying to fix the front feet so we can hopefully see if there's a problem elsewhere. Which of course we can never find and he never stops trying to work. If he would just stop mid-run when the pain hit, maybe we could figure out what actually hurt and fix it!
I'm going to try and get an appointment for a complete lameness exam and whatever else is necessary at a different vet next Wednesday (next day I will have any time) so hopefully we can get to the bottom of it and maybe have him back before the end of the year. I swear I'm done pre-entering things on him. Every time I do this year, we find more stuff that needs fixed. Can you post pictures of his front feet, as it sounds like he may have contracted heels
I'm at work until after dark tonight. Tuesdays suck at this job. Plus his feet are covered in mud I'm sure. We got an inch of rain yesterday so his feet aren't the only thing covered in mud I'd bet. He is part piglet I swear. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-04-22 11:56 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 11:47 AM dianeguinn - 2014-04-22 11:33 AM Melanie, I don't know how far it is to Pryor from where you live, but Dr. Propp has a Lameness Locator and he found a problem with my horse that no one else did by using it. He took about 4 hours with me and my friend and was spot on with both horses....he then told us what we needed to do to fix it and said to go back to our regular vets if we wanted. I was very impressed with him and that might be the way to go with Chance. I know TurnLane has used him, as well, and was well pleased. At least that would show you ALL the exact places he's hurting instead of having to guess. It wasn't terribly expensive, either. It cost me around $250. I was shocked that 4 hours of his time was that cheap. :) You might try that next, and that way you could be sure you're not missing anything. He's in NE OK, so he might not be terribly far from you. Just my suggestion. That would be well worth it. I'm an hour north of Independence KS so Oklahoma's not a terrible drive for me. I think Tulsa was 2.5 hours.
Ok was looking at Google Maps and it won't find a Pryor, OK, just Pryor Creek, OK, east of Tulsa. Is that the one I'm looking for? I like this lameness locator idea and Pryor Creek is only 2 hours & 40 minutes away according to google maps, which means probably more like 3 1/2 when I drive it LOL. (I am that slow vehicle that everyone else hates on the highways) And does anyone have this vet's phone number? I am hopping on here & back off while I try to bust out a 10-page newspaper in the next 2.5 hours so trying to minimize my googling. |
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BHW's Simon Cowell
Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | Pryor is a large town, I can't believe it won't pull up. It is North and East of Tulsa. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1028
| Pryor and Pryor Creek are the same town. But, it is almost always referred to only as Pryor instead of it's "official" name Pryor Creek. |
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 Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | bennie1 - 2014-04-22 8:56 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 6:56 PM dianeguinn - 2014-04-21 5:28 PM He's still sore. On the first barrel, he's striding really short with his back feet....more up and down instead of forward....almost stabbing them...and then runs across the pen with both back feet together instead of using them separately to push...in fact, he's not wanting to use his back end much at all...I'd guess now maybe hocks need injected or stifles blistered or maybe both. And maybe get a new vet.
Every single time I have thought my horse was sore, but chose to dink around with local vets instead of biting the bullet and driving the 200+ miles to a good vet, I have wasted hundreds of dollars and months of time when my horse could have been healing, instead of still trying the myriad of guesses on why they were sore.
Amen to this. I spent a couple of thousand dollars and a whole year out on my one mare just because I was lazy and didnt want to make the 4 hour drive to see Dr. Tanner. Had I immediately went to him, I would have saved time AND money. Lameness specialists are worth their weight in gold. It may be a whole day trip for me and cost me a crap ton of money but Dr. Tanner has yet to let me down and has saved Grasshopper's life and saved Lilly's career. There is a reason why the pros use him...
OP-I would follow everyone's advice and get to a good lamenes specialist. Good luck and I hope you get a good diagnosis soon!!! |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 1:02 PM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-04-22 11:56 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 11:47 AM dianeguinn - 2014-04-22 11:33 AM Melanie, I don't know how far it is to Pryor from where you live, but Dr. Propp has a Lameness Locator and he found a problem with my horse that no one else did by using it. He took about 4 hours with me and my friend and was spot on with both horses....he then told us what we needed to do to fix it and said to go back to our regular vets if we wanted. I was very impressed with him and that might be the way to go with Chance. I know TurnLane has used him, as well, and was well pleased. At least that would show you ALL the exact places he's hurting instead of having to guess. It wasn't terribly expensive, either. It cost me around $250. I was shocked that 4 hours of his time was that cheap. :) You might try that next, and that way you could be sure you're not missing anything. He's in NE OK, so he might not be terribly far from you. Just my suggestion. That would be well worth it. I'm an hour north of Independence KS so Oklahoma's not a terrible drive for me. I think Tulsa was 2.5 hours.
918-825-1717 |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I will also say, like I had shared with DG and others that have used the LL- it may have cost me a bit of money and time- it saved me from injecting joints that did not need injecting. For example- my horse was off behind but when we blocked the front foot- he went sound behind so it was compenstion for the front if that makes sense. However, he had issues in the past behind and I would totally have injected him because I believe in injecting but not if it is not necessary. So I loved the LL for that reason alone. I found it very helpful. And I thought all along my horse was off in the front even though he xrayd and ultrasounded clean-and seemed sound on the pad. The LL sees 20 frames per second that the eye may miss. Pin pointing the foot we did an MRI since we did do an injection and got relief but it did not last. |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Read through most of the replies. Nobody means to attack you, but it's really hard to not come across really strong, because we've all been there and done that to our nice horses too, before capitulating and heading to a good vet, or in my case, A&M.
The truth is, that when you add the time off work, hauling money spent going vetting, wear and tear on vehicles, your time, your frustration, your wasted entry fees, your wasted hauling fees, the horses pain, your time practicing and training an unsound horse, shoeing for said unsound horse, maintenance, feed, vaccines, etc, etc, etc, it is cheaper to just spend the money up front and haul somewhere that knows what they're doing.
True 1D horses are using their bodies to bits. I know it, you know it, and very one else here does too. It's our responsibility to recompense those animals with the least pain, most comfortable existence we can buy. It's not fair to them to keep asking that they work when it hurts for our pleasure. Believe me, if somebody is chasing me out across the desert looking to murder me, those mules of mine better antey up !!!! But for my obsession, not so much. If I can't afford to figure out what's wrong, they hit the road or are retired to a new profession, like hay eating or pasture growth maintenance, depending on how much they owe me.
The board has recommended at the least, new vets. I agree whole heartedly. If you can't afford treatment, consider spending the dough on genuine diagnostics, that way you'll at least know if Chance taking 2014 off will be beneficial, maintain, or exacerbate the problem.
I don't see a sound horse in your videos, I really hope you get answers soon! |
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 Uh....never mind
Posts: 2696
Location: Midwest Farmer's Daughter: Central Illinois | classicpotatochip - 2014-04-22 3:09 PM Read through most of the replies. Nobody means to attack you, but it's really hard to not come across really strong, because we've all been there and done that to our nice horses too, before capitulating and heading to a good vet, or in my case, A&M. The truth is, that when you add the time off work, hauling money spent going vetting, wear and tear on vehicles, your time, your frustration, your wasted entry fees, your wasted hauling fees, the horses pain, your time practicing and training an unsound horse, shoeing for said unsound horse, maintenance, feed, vaccines, etc, etc, etc, it is cheaper to just spend the money up front and haul somewhere that knows what they're doing. True 1D horses are using their bodies to bits. I know it, you know it, and very one else here does too. It's our responsibility to recompense those animals with the least pain, most comfortable existence we can buy. It's not fair to them to keep asking that they work when it hurts for our pleasure. Believe me, if somebody is chasing me out across the desert looking to murder me, those mules of mine better antey up !!!! But for my obsession, not so much. If I can't afford to figure out what's wrong, they hit the road or are retired to a new profession, like hay eating or pasture growth maintenance, depending on how much they owe me. The board has recommended at the least, new vets. I agree whole heartedly. If you can't afford treatment, consider spending the dough on genuine diagnostics, that way you'll at least know if Chance taking 2014 off will be beneficial, maintain, or exacerbate the problem. I don't see a sound horse in your videos, I really hope you get answers soon!
I agree.
I've spent the last two years trying to figure out my good horse's issues & as of right now they aren't figured out so he's not running. It won't be fun for me to watch everyone else but it's even less fun for him to hurt trying to please me. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I would say it's stifles. He is hopping around the barrels. If you don't get it fixed he is going to have more issues. Take him to a good lameness vet. Have them block the stifle and then flex him and watch him in circles. If it's a stifle they will usually be short strided when the effected leg is on the outside of the circle. |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| Isn't this the crux of the problem for all of us? I don't come close to running at the OP's level but even my "mutt" horses have problems and we dump all this time, money and worry into them. It's expensive and when you don't get the results you need/want it is disheartening too.
Op, I don't think you are a terrible person, you had hope, you tried. But now you have some cold hard facts and probably should face them. Maybe retire the horse.
I love barrel racing and then for these reasons I hate it too. It sucks to see a "team/dream" die. Sometimes its just time to move forward-on another horse.
Good luck OP...xoxoxo |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I wouldn't give up. I would get a lameness locator on him or at least a fresh set of eyes…
Honestly, a lot of times those big referral hospitals end up being cheaper because they can a lot of times get to the bottom of an issue in one visit, can give discounts on rads, they have more technology at their disposal, and theres always payment plans. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Sorry if anyone thought I disappeared. Had to finish the weekly newspaper and hustle to a middle school track meet so I just now got home and turned a computer on. I've got the number to the vet in Pryor that you guys have recommended and I'll call first thing in the morning. Meant to do it this afternoon but got buried in work and by the time I looked up, it was 5:30.
I probably shouldn't have read anything on here this morning - I was stressed with work (Tuesday is the craziest day of the week) and it was pretty easy to get under my skin then. Please don't think I am going to run Chance without getting things figured out. I thought I was doing the right thing by following advice of 3 different vets and running at Lincoln - obviously I should have just stayed home and eaten my fees since absolutely nothing went right up there on any of my horses. Again - hindsight is 20/20. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 9:35 PM
Sorry if anyone thought I disappeared. Had to finish the weekly newspaper and hustle to a middle school track meet so I just now got home and turned a computer on. I've got the number to the vet in Pryor that you guys have recommended and I'll call first thing in the morning. Meant to do it this afternoon but got buried in work and by the time I looked up, it was 5:30.
I probably shouldn't have read anything on here this morning - I was stressed with work (Tuesday is the craziest day of the week) and it was pretty easy to get under my skin then. Please don't think I am going to run Chance without getting things figured out. I thought I was doing the right thing by following advice of 3 different vets and running at Lincoln - obviously I should have just stayed home and eaten my fees since absolutely nothing went right up there on any of my horses. Again - hindsight is 20/20.
it always is… I've missed the mark several times on horses even though I was trying to find what was wrong with them. It happens to all of us. They can't talk, and we try our best! |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | casualdust07 - 2014-04-22 10:03 PM
rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-22 9:35 PM
Sorry if anyone thought I disappeared. Had to finish the weekly newspaper and hustle to a middle school track meet so I just now got home and turned a computer on. I've got the number to the vet in Pryor that you guys have recommended and I'll call first thing in the morning. Meant to do it this afternoon but got buried in work and by the time I looked up, it was 5:30.
I probably shouldn't have read anything on here this morning - I was stressed with work (Tuesday is the craziest day of the week) and it was pretty easy to get under my skin then. Please don't think I am going to run Chance without getting things figured out. I thought I was doing the right thing by following advice of 3 different vets and running at Lincoln - obviously I should have just stayed home and eaten my fees since absolutely nothing went right up there on any of my horses. Again - hindsight is 20/20.
it always is… I've missed the mark several times on horses even though I was trying to find what was wrong with them. It happens to all of us. They can't talk, and we try our best!
Yes we do try our best |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | bennie1 - 2014-04-22 8:56 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 6:56 PM dianeguinn - 2014-04-21 5:28 PM He's still sore. On the first barrel, he's striding really short with his back feet....more up and down instead of forward....almost stabbing them...and then runs across the pen with both back feet together instead of using them separately to push...in fact, he's not wanting to use his back end much at all...I'd guess now maybe hocks need injected or stifles blistered or maybe both. And maybe get a new vet.
Every single time I have thought my horse was sore, but chose to dink around with local vets instead of biting the bullet and driving the 200+ miles to a good vet, I have wasted hundreds of dollars and months of time when my horse could have been healing, instead of still trying the myriad of guesses on why they were sore.
THIS!
I have several vets within a few miles from me. I call them for things like bloodwork, teeth, or meds. When I have a lameness problem, I go straight to the track vets which is about a 2 hour drive. That long day saves me a lot of time and guesswork. What I really love about them? They don't get ****y when I tell them my horse has seen a different vet since his last visit. They understand that I'm not hauling that far for "minor" things. But when I tell my at home vet that I took him and they injected his knee bc it had arthritis, he visibly got annoyed.
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | maybe there's nothing actually significantly wrong with the horse except too many 'diagnostic/treatment procedures' trying to find something......
Edited by dhdqhllc 2014-04-23 10:32 AM
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| classicpotatochip - 2014-04-22 8:48 AM
barrelracr131 - 2014-04-22 8:00 AM
I would be taking him to a university or hospital where they have the ability to utilize diagnostic imaging to confirm what is at the root of the soreness from a pathology standpoint.
I don't think going back to your local vet would be prudent at this point in time
^^^^^This.
I'd be on my way to Oklahoma or College Station to A&M. Sometimes, one or two vets just won't cut it. I want the whole team that TEACHES the vets. I've had three now that I've dumped out at A&M and said, "Keep them until you figure it out." Sometimes it's six hours, one time it was three days, but I had an answer and a treatment plan, either way, they found the problem, and each time it had been totally overlooked locally. Not every teaching facility is equal, either. My big brown gelding was one that CSU totally bombed, and A&M nailed the problem in two hours.
I plan on keeping this habit. $600 in diesel and $1500 in vet bills is often a lot cheaper then hauling and trying to henpeck a sore horse one injection at a time. That's my thought, having been here and done that.
This is why I love being an Aggie. GIG EM (:
Oh and that 20% student discount on equine treatment heck yes |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Lameness locator appointment has been made for May 7th. Going to get to the bottom of this. Thanks to those of you who have legitimately tried to help without getting crabby or talking about me behind my back. To the rest of you - have fun acting like 3rd graders. Glad I could give you something to talk about amongst yourselves. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 2:19 PM Lameness locator appointment has been made for May 7th. Going to get to the bottom of this. Thanks to those of you who have legitimately tried to help without getting crabby or talking about me behind my back. To the rest of you - have fun acting like 3rd graders. Glad I could give you something to talk about amongst yourselves.
i'm sure we will be talking about it for some time.....thanks.... |
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 Veteran
Posts: 160
Location: Outside of Larryville, KS | Have you thought about Heartland Equine Vet? They are amazing and have quite the credentials and they are close and can get you in faster then May 7th. They are working out of Mark Gratnys barn right now, as their shop gets finished in May, but they are state of the art and will be able to do eveyrthing a major equine hospital can do. You get to vets for the price of one with Eric and Kelly Carlson. let me know if you want their info. |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I may have asked you before, but have you had his spine xrayed? I had one that was sore all over and it turns out he was a kissing spine case. Might be worth it to check. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 2:19 PM Lameness locator appointment has been made for May 7th. Going to get to the bottom of this. Thanks to those of you who have legitimately tried to help without getting crabby or talking about me behind my back. To the rest of you - have fun acting like 3rd graders. Glad I could give you something to talk about amongst yourselves. Glad that you are taking Chance so hopefully you can find out what the heck is going on with him  , how far away is this Lameness Locator from you?
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-04-24 3:16 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | dashnlotti - 2014-04-23 10:29 AM bennie1 - 2014-04-22 8:56 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-21 6:56 PM dianeguinn - 2014-04-21 5:28 PM He's still sore. On the first barrel, he's striding really short with his back feet....more up and down instead of forward....almost stabbing them...and then runs across the pen with both back feet together instead of using them separately to push...in fact, he's not wanting to use his back end much at all...I'd guess now maybe hocks need injected or stifles blistered or maybe both. And maybe get a new vet.
Every single time I have thought my horse was sore, but chose to dink around with local vets instead of biting the bullet and driving the 200+ miles to a good vet, I have wasted hundreds of dollars and months of time when my horse could have been healing, instead of still trying the myriad of guesses on why they were sore.
I have several vets within a few miles from me. I call them for things like bloodwork, teeth, or meds. When I have a lameness problem, I go straight to the track vets which is about a 2 hour drive. That long day saves me a lot of time and guesswork. What I really love about them? They don't get ****y when I tell them my horse has seen a different vet since his last visit. They understand that I'm not hauling that far for "minor" things. But when I tell my at home vet that I took him and they injected his knee bc it had arthritis, he visibly got annoyed.
And I thought I was the only person this happened to! Lol! |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Southtxponygirl - 2014-04-24 2:57 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 2:19 PM Lameness locator appointment has been made for May 7th. Going to get to the bottom of this. Thanks to those of you who have legitimately tried to help without getting crabby or talking about me behind my back. To the rest of you - have fun acting like 3rd graders. Glad I could give you something to talk about amongst yourselves. Glad that you are taking Chance so hopefully you can find out what the heck is going on with him , how far away is this Lameness Locator from you?
2 hours & 40 minutes according to Google maps. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | HDNAQHA - 2014-04-24 2:30 PM Have you thought about Heartland Equine Vet? They are amazing and have quite the credentials and they are close and can get you in faster then May 7th. They are working out of Mark Gratnys barn right now, as their shop gets finished in May, but they are state of the art and will be able to do eveyrthing a major equine hospital can do. You get to vets for the price of one with Eric and Kelly Carlson. let me know if you want their info.
Hmm.....I might be interested in that, if people are really having great luck finding lameness there, as they'd be a lot closer than Pryor OK, and I seem to spend a lot of time in that area already.......lol.
Shoot me a FB message with their info as I'm not checking this nearly as often as I check my FB. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 6:43 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-04-24 2:57 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 2:19 PM Lameness locator appointment has been made for May 7th. Going to get to the bottom of this. Thanks to those of you who have legitimately tried to help without getting crabby or talking about me behind my back. To the rest of you - have fun acting like 3rd graders. Glad I could give you something to talk about amongst yourselves. Glad that you are taking Chance so hopefully you can find out what the heck is going on with him , how far away is this Lameness Locator from you?
Awww thats not to bad of a drive |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news! |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 6:43 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-04-24 2:57 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 2:19 PM Lameness locator appointment has been made for May 7th. Going to get to the bottom of this. Thanks to those of you who have legitimately tried to help without getting crabby or talking about me behind my back. To the rest of you - have fun acting like 3rd graders. Glad I could give you something to talk about amongst yourselves. Glad that you are taking Chance so hopefully you can find out what the heck is going on with him , how far away is this Lameness Locator from you?
It takes me that long to get to my regular vet. The joys of living in the middle of no where. Keep us posted on what you find. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | ampratt - 2014-04-24 7:58 PM Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news!
I may or may not post on here again. Seems my posts on here aren't well-received by some and I'd really prefer not to be discussed by a select few behind my back. If you are that curious, shoot me a PM or send me a facebook request, and I will be happy to share the results. Hopefully we don't have any crazy things pop up between now & then - I came home yesterday and found him missing a front shoe because he caught it on the fence trying to reach grass on the other side - and we can get some answers. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 9:33 PM
ampratt - 2014-04-24 7:58 PM Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news!
I may or may not post on here again. Seems my posts on here aren't well-received by some and I'd really prefer not to be discussed by a select few behind my back. If you are that curious, shoot me a PM or send me a facebook request, and I will be happy to share the results. Hopefully we don't have any crazy things pop up between now & then - I came home yesterday and found him missing a front shoe because he caught it on the fence trying to reach grass on the other side - and we can get some answers.
Its just because youre a mere peon in the barrel racing industry and the elite of the elite are posting on here! You know the best trainers and riders are always posting on the internet instead of training and riding.... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 9:33 PM
ampratt - 2014-04-24 7:58 PM Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news!
I may or may not post on here again. Seems my posts on here aren't well-received by some and I'd really prefer not to be discussed by a select few behind my back. If you are that curious, shoot me a PM or send me a facebook request, and I will be happy to share the results. Hopefully we don't have any crazy things pop up between now & then - I came home yesterday and found him missing a front shoe because he caught it on the fence trying to reach grass on the other side - and we can get some answers.
Good luck, I still suggest taking a copy of his file, X-rays ultrasound and bloodwork. This way if needed the vet can compare and see if there are any changes to the affected area.
One other thing I do after my vet has given me the all clear is I do get my horses adjusted as if they have been compensating, they have more of a tendency to become misaligned.
If people are making comments behind your back, shame on them, keep your chin up, you have a wonderful horse and you are doing everything you can. A horse with a big heart makes it difficult to detect there is something wrong.
Again I wish you luck you find the issue |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Itsme - 2014-04-25 6:35 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 9:33 PM ampratt - 2014-04-24 7:58 PM Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news! I may or may not post on here again. Seems my posts on here aren't well-received by some and I'd really prefer not to be discussed by a select few behind my back. If you are that curious, shoot me a PM or send me a facebook request, and I will be happy to share the results. Hopefully we don't have any crazy things pop up between now & then - I came home yesterday and found him missing a front shoe because he caught it on the fence trying to reach grass on the other side - and we can get some answers. Its just because youre a mere peon in the barrel racing industry and the elite of the elite are posting on here! You know the best trainers and riders are always posting on the internet instead of training and riding....
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Yup, take everything with you in terms of test results/vet records
Glad you are going on to another vet, and hopefully they will give you some answers! |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Itsme - 2014-04-25 8:35 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 9:33 PM ampratt - 2014-04-24 7:58 PM Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news! I may or may not post on here again. Seems my posts on here aren't well-received by some and I'd really prefer not to be discussed by a select few behind my back. If you are that curious, shoot me a PM or send me a facebook request, and I will be happy to share the results. Hopefully we don't have any crazy things pop up between now & then - I came home yesterday and found him missing a front shoe because he caught it on the fence trying to reach grass on the other side - and we can get some answers. Its just because youre a mere peon in the barrel racing industry and the elite of the elite are posting on here! You know the best trainers and riders are always posting on the internet instead of training and riding....
Ain't that the truth!!!!!! |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Itsme - 2014-04-25 8:35 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 9:33 PM ampratt - 2014-04-24 7:58 PM Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news! I may or may not post on here again. Seems my posts on here aren't well-received by some and I'd really prefer not to be discussed by a select few behind my back. If you are that curious, shoot me a PM or send me a facebook request, and I will be happy to share the results. Hopefully we don't have any crazy things pop up between now & then - I came home yesterday and found him missing a front shoe because he caught it on the fence trying to reach grass on the other side - and we can get some answers. Its just because youre a mere peon in the barrel racing industry and the elite of the elite are posting on here! You know the best trainers and riders are always posting on the internet instead of training and riding....
Really???? It always amazes me that someone will post their LIFE on a public forum of over a couple thousand online (at any given time) and then get p*ffed if their problem is discussed on other forums......
Additionally, Itsme........let's throw your name and CREDENTIALS out there and compare to those who have posted in this thread and we will see just who are the trainers and winners and who is the sh*t pot stirrer......... |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | NJJ - 2014-04-25 2:12 PM Itsme - 2014-04-25 8:35 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 9:33 PM ampratt - 2014-04-24 7:58 PM Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news! I may or may not post on here again. Seems my posts on here aren't well-received by some and I'd really prefer not to be discussed by a select few behind my back. If you are that curious, shoot me a PM or send me a facebook request, and I will be happy to share the results. Hopefully we don't have any crazy things pop up between now & then - I came home yesterday and found him missing a front shoe because he caught it on the fence trying to reach grass on the other side - and we can get some answers. Its just because youre a mere peon in the barrel racing industry and the elite of the elite are posting on here! You know the best trainers and riders are always posting on the internet instead of training and riding....
Additionally, Itsme........let's throw your name and CREDENTIALS out there and compare to those who have posted in this thread and we will see just who are the trainers and winners and who is the sh*t pot stirrer.........
I don't mind being discussed but I'd like to be part of the discussion. From some things I've heard, the discussion is going on somewhere that I can't access and it doesn't sound like people are being very helpful there. It sounds like more of a bashing behind my back. However, I know my situation and I know I'm doing what I can, whether that is not running him (which I haven't hardly at all this year) or going to a different vet. He's been to 3 different ones this year and I know I've spent well over $1000 on him already just in performance-related vet bills, so believe me, an effort has been made/is being made.
Cheryl, I do plan on taking all his vet records from Eureka and the little bit of stuff I have from McCrady who did his SI injections. We haven't ultrasounded anything or pulled any blood recently, but I do plan on getting him adjusted again after we fix whatever else needs fixed. I need to call my regular vet and see when the chiro vet will be there again because I'd like to get my others adjusted too.
Three 4 Luck --- Oh I must be doing something right if I'm interesting enough to be talked about so much.
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| NJJ - 2014-04-25 2:12 PM
Itsme - 2014-04-25 8:35 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-24 9:33 PM ampratt - 2014-04-24 7:58 PM Keep your chin up. It is sometimes hard trying to figure out the correct action to take. Please share what you find out after the vet appointment. Wishing you and Chance a safe trip and good news! I may or may not post on here again. Seems my posts on here aren't well-received by some and I'd really prefer not to be discussed by a select few behind my back. If you are that curious, shoot me a PM or send me a facebook request, and I will be happy to share the results. Hopefully we don't have any crazy things pop up between now & then - I came home yesterday and found him missing a front shoe because he caught it on the fence trying to reach grass on the other side - and we can get some answers. Its just because youre a mere peon in the barrel racing industry and the elite of the elite are posting on here! You know the best trainers and riders are always posting on the internet instead of training and riding....
Additionally, Itsme........let's throw your name and CREDENTIALS out there and compare to those who have posted in this thread and we will see just who are the trainers and winners and who is the sh*t pot stirrer.........
Sorry, im not posting my info so you can internet stalk me.
BTW im not a trainer or a winner at barrel racing, just surrounding my daughter with those that are and they are assisting her on training her own colt! And its kind of funny, the successful racers I know dont say a bad word about others... |
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 Queen Boobie mascot
Posts: 706
Location: Mayerthorpe Alberta | Whoever is talking about rodeowithjoker, SHAME on you. The rest of us are here for you and are supporting you. please keep us updated and heck let us deal with the hecklers!!! Chin up girl, go find your answers
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | lurker - 2014-04-25 9:23 PM Whoever is talking about rodeowithjoker, SHAME on you. The rest of us are here for you and are supporting you. please keep us updated and heck let us deal with the hecklers!!! Chin up girl, go find your answers
Like I said earlier, I'm glad I am so interesting that people want to talk about me. What is the saying - there's no such thing as bad publicity? lol.
I'm going to find the answers on Chance, I have no doubt. My next (and actually more pressing) question is who the heck am I running in his spot at state NBHA in 2 weeks? lol. I've got a couple options so either Joker or Streak better step up the next week or so and claim that spot. :) |
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 Expert
Posts: 1384
Location: Kansas | Why do you feel the need to replace his slot and enter?
Sometimes it is better to pass and save the money
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Sangria - 2014-04-25 9:54 PM Why do you feel the need to replace his slot and enter?
Sometimes it is better to pass and save the money
I'm not sure why Sangria got a dislike for her post but I was wondering basically the same thing. Can't you vet out? |
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Queen Boobie mascot
Posts: 706
Location: Mayerthorpe Alberta | on the other hand, why not have one of the other horses step up and fill the slot spot? (hey im rhyming now) |
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Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | lurker - 2014-04-25 10:29 PM
on the other hand, why not have one of the other horses step up and fill the slot spot? (hey im rhyming now)
Exactly!!! It's a freaking D race....and usually even started horses should be able to run w/in 2 seconds or so. If nothing else, it can be good experience for her new horse and he may surprise her. If you've already paid the fees, why NOT go if you have another horse to run??? |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Last time I vetted out of a (large) race I lost partial entry, all the stall fees and my LQ hook up. I'd enter another horse. I wish I would have had something else to sub.
Edited by justcruzin 2014-04-26 9:03 AM
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | dianeguinn - 2014-04-25 11:03 PM lurker - 2014-04-25 10:29 PM on the other hand, why not have one of the other horses step up and fill the slot spot? (hey im rhyming now) Exactly!!! It's a freaking D race....and usually even started horses should be able to run w/in 2 seconds or so. If nothing else, it can be good experience for her new horse and he may surprise her. If you've already paid the fees, why NOT go if you have another horse to run???
I already paid the fees the last time we thought he was fixed. My options are to (1) sell the spot (and gosh what a pain that will be), (2) sub another horse in (and I have 2 to choose from) or (3) figure out the vet out rules and do that by Monday (but what fun is it to go and only run one horse when you're used to running 2 or 3).
I entered Chance and Clifford. Joker doesn't usually do well in that arena and it would be at least 2 but probably 3 runs in a weekend, which seems to be a lot for his old body. If Streak can keep progressing the next week & a half, I think he's my better option to make several runs in a weekend. He's not the type to look around or be silly, and it is a 4D. I think the only time I entered him (super small jackpot) he was 3 seconds off Matt's mare (2D time) and we didn't have a great trip through the pattern. He was kind of unprepared for me to ask him to actually run a little between barrels. But at state, if we can just make the finals, a lot of times most of the 4D times get a check.
Divisional races are a crapshoot unless you can go win them outright and not that many people have the horse to do that. It sucks to go without Chance because he's has won a round there the last two years and won a 1D check on every run but I don't have a choice this time. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-26 10:20 AM dianeguinn - 2014-04-25 11:03 PM lurker - 2014-04-25 10:29 PM on the other hand, why not have one of the other horses step up and fill the slot spot? (hey im rhyming now) Exactly!!! It's a freaking D race....and usually even started horses should be able to run w/in 2 seconds or so. If nothing else, it can be good experience for her new horse and he may surprise her. If you've already paid the fees, why NOT go if you have another horse to run???
I entered Chance and Clifford. Joker doesn't usually do well in that arena and it would be at least 2 but probably 3 runs in a weekend, which seems to be a lot for his old body. If Streak can keep progressing the next week & a half, I think he's my better option to make several runs in a weekend. He's not the type to look around or be silly, and it is a 4D. I think the only time I entered him (super small jackpot) he was 3 seconds off Matt's mare (2D time) and we didn't have a great trip through the pattern. He was kind of unprepared for me to ask him to actually run a little between barrels. But at state, if we can just make the finals, a lot of times most of the 4D times get a check.
Divisional races are a crapshoot unless you can go win them outright and not that many people have the horse to do that. It sucks to go without Chance because he's has won a round there the last two years and won a 1D check on every run but I don't have a choice this time.
your point in this past post? sounds to me and please dont take this wrong because I do not keep up with you or know your situation.. you arent experienced I guess or if you were you certainly would not be 2nd guessing nor asking here nor asking what to do.. youd know what to do.. we arent asking about your "other horses " and accomplishments.. truly not.. everyone was offering advice on this horse.. and you seem to want to ramble on about your life and other horses.. that wasnt the question nor the advice.. stop running the **** horse ,save your money on entries and figure out the horses issues.. or retire him.. period.. it not that difficult to figure that out.. truly.. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-26 9:20 AM dianeguinn - 2014-04-25 11:03 PM lurker - 2014-04-25 10:29 PM on the other hand, why not have one of the other horses step up and fill the slot spot? (hey im rhyming now) Exactly!!! It's a freaking D race....and usually even started horses should be able to run w/in 2 seconds or so. If nothing else, it can be good experience for her new horse and he may surprise her. If you've already paid the fees, why NOT go if you have another horse to run???
I entered Chance and Clifford. Joker doesn't usually do well in that arena and it would be at least 2 but probably 3 runs in a weekend, which seems to be a lot for his old body. If Streak can keep progressing the next week & a half, I think he's my better option to make several runs in a weekend. He's not the type to look around or be silly, and it is a 4D. I think the only time I entered him (super small jackpot) he was 3 seconds off Matt's mare (2D time) and we didn't have a great trip through the pattern. He was kind of unprepared for me to ask him to actually run a little between barrels. But at state, if we can just make the finals, a lot of times most of the 4D times get a check.
Divisional races are a crapshoot unless you can go win them outright and not that many people have the horse to do that. It sucks to go without Chance because he's has won a round there the last two years and won a 1D check on every run but I don't have a choice this time.
I hope you take this the right way, because this is what I would say to my kids or a friend, and I mean it in the nicest way possible: suck it up, buttercup.
Quite a lot of us have been in your shoes. You can do your horse justice, or you can make excuses for not. What kind of person do you want to be? |
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
Location: Always on call..... | Bibliafarm - 2014-04-26 12:32 PM
rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-26 10:20 AM dianeguinn - 2014-04-25 11:03 PM lurker - 2014-04-25 10:29 PM on the other hand, why not have one of the other horses step up and fill the slot spot? (hey im rhyming now) Exactly!!! It's a freaking D race....and usually even started horses should be able to run w/in 2 seconds or so. If nothing else, it can be good experience for her new horse and he may surprise her. If you've already paid the fees, why NOT go if you have another horse to run???
I entered Chance and Clifford. Joker doesn't usually do well in that arena and it would be at least 2 but probably 3 runs in a weekend, which seems to be a lot for his old body. If Streak can keep progressing the next week & a half, I think he's my better option to make several runs in a weekend. He's not the type to look around or be silly, and it is a 4D. I think the only time I entered him (super small jackpot) he was 3 seconds off Matt's mare (2D time) and we didn't have a great trip through the pattern. He was kind of unprepared for me to ask him to actually run a little between barrels. But at state, if we can just make the finals, a lot of times most of the 4D times get a check.
Divisional races are a crapshoot unless you can go win them outright and not that many people have the horse to do that. It sucks to go without Chance because he's has won a round there the last two years and won a 1D check on every run but I don't have a choice this time.
Her point was to answer another poster's question about why would she want to run a different horse instead of the horse that this post was about. She's already said numerous times that she is drawing Chance out of the State Finals show because something isn't right. When she mentioned running one of her other horses in his spot someone asked her why she would do that. This was her answer. It was not an attempt to brag. Simply stating it sucks she can't run the horse that she has had the most success with at this race isn't bragging.
Melanie is not "inexperienced". She's probably ran barrels more than most of the people on this board combined. She's definitely one of the most dedicated and driven barrel racers I know.
Good grief people, we should be praising Melanie for continuing to be concerned about her horses's welfare when she feels something is still off. THREE different vets have told her he was fine and to run him. So it's not like the horse has a known lameness and she just doesn't care. |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Dr. J - 2014-04-26 12:53 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-26 12:32 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-26 10:20 AM dianeguinn - 2014-04-25 11:03 PM lurker - 2014-04-25 10:29 PM on the other hand, why not have one of the other horses step up and fill the slot spot? (hey im rhyming now) Exactly!!! It's a freaking D race....and usually even started horses should be able to run w/in 2 seconds or so. If nothing else, it can be good experience for her new horse and he may surprise her. If you've already paid the fees, why NOT go if you have another horse to run???
I entered Chance and Clifford. Joker doesn't usually do well in that arena and it would be at least 2 but probably 3 runs in a weekend, which seems to be a lot for his old body. If Streak can keep progressing the next week & a half, I think he's my better option to make several runs in a weekend. He's not the type to look around or be silly, and it is a 4D. I think the only time I entered him (super small jackpot) he was 3 seconds off Matt's mare (2D time) and we didn't have a great trip through the pattern. He was kind of unprepared for me to ask him to actually run a little between barrels. But at state, if we can just make the finals, a lot of times most of the 4D times get a check.
Divisional races are a crapshoot unless you can go win them outright and not that many people have the horse to do that. It sucks to go without Chance because he's has won a round there the last two years and won a 1D check on every run but I don't have a choice this time. Her point was to answer another poster's question about why would she want to run a different horse instead of the horse that this post was about. She's already said numerous times that she is drawing Chance out of the State Finals show because something isn't right. When she mentioned running one of her other horses in his spot someone asked her why she would do that. This was her answer. It was not an attempt to brag. Simply stating it sucks she can't run the horse that she has had the most success with at this race isn't bragging. Melanie is not "inexperienced". She's probably ran barrels more than most of the people on this board combined. She's definitely one of the most dedicated and driven barrel racers I know. Good grief people, we should be praising Melanie for continuing to be concerned about her horses's welfare when she feels something is still off. THREE different vets have told her he was fine and to run him. So it's not like the horse has a known lameness and she just doesn't care.
Thank you!!!! |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I wasnt being condenscending... I dont know her nor the situation and I saw her second guessing to run or not . I must have missed the part shes not running.
over this year shes been running him but felt he was off was the reasoning to my post.. seems to continue
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I don't think she's doing anything wrong. I think she's been the victim of vets that seem willing to tell her the horse is fine. She's headed to a new vet. She's had an arsenal of advice. She's got a list she's going to do at the new vet. If she didn't care about her horse, be frustrated, and confused about what's going on with him, she wouldn't be posting.
I think, biblia, that you totally nasty to her just now, and unreasonably so. I usually agree with you, but on that post, nope.
Honestly, I think folks have been pretty rough on here towards her. I'm not as thick skinned as her, and I sure have felt upset about people's treatment of her. I don't even know her!!! and I'm pretty upset with the board. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | classicpotatochip - 2014-04-26 5:12 PM I don't think she's doing anything wrong. I think she's been the victim of vets that seem willing to tell her the horse is fine. She's headed to a new vet. She's had an arsenal of advice. She's got a list she's going to do at the new vet. If she didn't care about her horse, be frustrated, and confused about what's going on with him, she wouldn't be posting. I think, biblia, that you totally nasty to her just now, and unreasonably so. I usually agree with you, but on that post, nope. Honestly, I think folks have been pretty rough on here towards her. I'm not as thick skinned as her, and I sure have felt upset about people's treatment of her. I don't even know her!!! and I'm pretty upset with the board. Im sorry you feel that way. I wasnt being totally nasty to her.. stated what I read and my opinion.. I would have posted that after the 6 pages of alot of stuff being posted to anyone.. it wasnt intended to be nasty it was the truth as I saw it. Im sorry it sounded 'totally nasty" .. it did however appear she was 2nd guessing not running him.. so therefore i posted the last few sentences.. if you have issues with everyone dont just cram me for them ok.. My posts were honest posts.. I dont know her,, period... now over here we cant post our opinions without getting reprimended I guess.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-04-26 4:58 PM
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| Well, in the years I've been here on BHW, Melanie's training/advice threads have always been amazingly civil and informative. Her threads, to me, have always been this way. She seems to reply to every question, suggestion, and bit of advice...never a lick of frustration or attitude even when the situation was a little frustrating. These days we get mad when people neglect or ignore the advice given on this forum. Melanie doesn't do that. We get mad at the "askholes" that come on here asking for what they want to hear. Melanie isn't an askhole. I think she handled the ridiculousness of some of these posts pretty well. Frankly, I am surprised by some of the out-of-character posts here, by members whom I respect and like! Holy crap, my heart is pretty much sinking into my stomach after reading some of these posts. Melanie has shown tons of improvement on a horse that she made by herself (Chance), and who wouldn't be frustrated when your blood, sweat, and tears seem to be swirling down the drain due to the ever ominous weight of lameness. We've all been there, absolutely. I think some empathy is in order here. She has a new vet appmt arranged and I am sure she will do what is right for Chance. For crying out loud, at least she's trying! She could be one of those morons that continues to ignore ALL advice from ANYONE, doesn't consult vets, etc, but she is doing all of that. And she gets insulted numerous times for coming here for help and advice. I thought that was what BHW was for? We drive away new "askhole" members all the and laugh about it. Now I'm afraid we've lost a good, respected, nice member. Yay? Congrats? |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Im sorry melanie if it sounded as such. I didnt read all your posts and misunderstood..
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I haven't read them all either. I saw something about not being fun to only run 1 horse at a big event or how it sucks to run one that's not 1d where you have to depend on luck to win anything and it hit my PMSing self totally wrong.  You do what you have to do for your horses and be thankful for what you have--believe me, I learned those lessons well from Experience School. |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Just Plain Lucky - 2014-04-26 5:12 PM Well, in the years I've been here on BHW, Melanie's training/advice threads have always been amazingly civil and informative. Her threads, to me, have always been this way. She seems to reply to every question, suggestion, and bit of advice...never a lick of frustration or attitude even when the situation was a little frustrating. These days we get mad when people neglect or ignore the advice given on this forum. Melanie doesn't do that. We get mad at the "askholes" that come on here asking for what they want to hear. Melanie isn't an askhole. I think she handled the ridiculousness of some of these posts pretty well. Frankly, I am surprised by some of the out-of-character posts here, by members whom I respect and like! Holy crap, my heart is pretty much sinking into my stomach after reading some of these posts. Melanie has shown tons of improvement on a horse that she made by herself (Chance), and who wouldn't be frustrated when your blood, sweat, and tears seem to be swirling down the drain due to the ever ominous weight of lameness. We've all been there, absolutely. I think some empathy is in order here. She has a new vet appmt arranged and I am sure she will do what is right for Chance. For crying out loud, at least she's trying! She could be one of those morons that continues to ignore ALL advice from ANYONE, doesn't consult vets, etc, but she is doing all of that. And she gets insulted numerous times for coming here for help and advice. I thought that was what BHW was for? We drive away new "askhole" members all the and laugh about it. Now I'm afraid we've lost a good, respected, nice member. Yay? Congrats?
Not to be nasty but she seems to have gotten much of the same information and suggestions almost two months ago in this thread......which "may" be why some are not giving her the benefit of doubt......and it doesn't sound like the vet gave her a clean bill of health to run him?
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=446137&posts=58&mid=6948156&highlight=&highlightmode=1&action=search#M6948156 |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | I am mainly a lurker and have been for years and it is because of this. I have seem so many posts where someone is asking for advise, opinions etc and then gets ripped apart. Does it matter how many times they ask, no it shouldn't. If your bored with their posts then don't open it and go on. If you haven't read ALL the posts or followed the situation why even post? That is like putting your two cents in and you don't even have all the facts. We have all been given advise that we didn't follow for some reason or another. All I have seen in the posts from this young woman is that she realizes there is a problem, she is taking steps to resolve that problem. Are they the steps some of us would take, maybe not, maybe so. It doesn't affect anyone but her and HER horse. So if you get irritated or bothered, go to another thread. I have to agree with some I have never seen this person make a mean spirited or ugly post. Some should follow her example. Melanie, good luck to you and Chance. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Internet know it alls out in full force!! They can find any issue in a horse from 300 yards and a pair of binos... |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Itsme - 2014-04-26 9:05 PM Internet know it alls out in full force!! They can find any issue in a horse from 300 yards and a pair of binos... I think most were clearly trying to help.. and thought she is still running him sore itsme . its hard to know everyones personal stories on here..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-04-26 8:59 PM
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | NJJ, I have literally run him 4 times since that thread. March 15th, I was definitely told he was fine and to run him. heck other barrel racers at that show came up and said "oh I think he's back" when he took the lead, and I still kept racking my brain and looking for other ideas of what could be wrong because I knew something wasn't quite right.
About 10 days after that run, the chiro/vet found the SI issues and suggested those injections, which we did March 31st. The injecting vet even told my dad (who took Chance to the vet because I couldn't get off work that day) that running him 12 days later at a big show was about perfect timing and he should be back to his old self. So I took him to Lincoln, ran him Friday, Saturday & Sunday and he worked good Friday but didn't fire, then worked horrible Saturday & Sunday. I came home and promptly went right back to digging for answers.
It's really not like I have run him 20 times since that thread. Every time he's run, I've been told by VETS to run him, he's fine. Heck right now he has vet clearance to run and instead he's chilling in the pasture for the next two weeks or more. I'm not sure where some of you have gotten your information on what's going on in my world, but seriously, it's time for the speculation to stop.
I have always said BHW was a great resource for training and care advice, but I'm afraid this may be the last post I make asking for advice on anything besides what color to use on a sorrel horse! Chance's training benefitted greatly from BHW posts, and so it is extremely frustrating to have a site I believed to be a helpful resource go so far off course.
As far as state NBHA, I am going to substitute one of my other horses into Chance's spot. I just don't know which one yet, and with either one, winning money will be a crapshoot and depend on luck, so I'm weighing my options and trying to decide what's best for those two horses in the long run. Do I push the older one for more runs in a weekend than I normally do, or do I give Streak "baptism by fire" at a big show? That is the decision I get to wrestle with for the next 10 days. (And believe me, there's no way in he!! I am going to post on BHW and ask for help making it! LOL)
Thank you to those who have defended me or offered support. I'm glad my posts have always been civil and informative. My goal has always been to learn from those who know more than I do and to share what I've learned with others starting out, all without being nasty or condescending to anyone. You all have no idea how many times I type a response, then leave the computer for a half hour and come back to decide if I really should post it. Seems to me that if more people did that, we wouldn't have so many knee-jerk reaction fights on here.
That said, I hope you all have a great day and the severe weather misses everyone!
I'm off to replace the pocketknife I lost to airport security earlier this week.  It was a Christmas present from Matt and I am still mad that I forgot was in my purse until we were going through the screening and they had to completely empty my purse. (ETA the rest of the sentence)
Edited by rodeowithjoker 2014-04-27 3:37 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I know your frustration. I have a really nice mare. Went through what your going through. Vets telling me she was fine and to run her. I knew she wasn't. I finally found someone who would listen. It was her feet. Found a great Shoer and a vet that knows what to look for in barrel horses. You know your horse. Don't stop till you get the answers. Have you checked his whirlbone for soreness.? My mares feet caused soreness in the whirlbone and SI. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| How close are you to Bristol Oklahoma? |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | readytorodeo - 2014-04-27 2:47 PM I know your frustration. I have a really nice mare. Went through what your going through. Vets telling me she was fine and to run her. I knew she wasn't. I finally found someone who would listen. It was her feet. Found a great Shoer and a vet that knows what to look for in barrel horses. You know your horse. Don't stop till you get the answers. Have you checked his whirlbone for soreness.? My mares feet caused soreness in the whirlbone and SI. That is the part that sucks the most. My family members have thought I was wasting my money all year looking for problems with him, but finally last month my Dad got stuck taking him to a couple vet appointments (chiro/vet who found the SI soreness and the vet who did the SI injections) and now at least Dad is a believer. He's stopped questioning me when I've said there is something else that's still not right. Mom has kind of figured out that saying he's not lame and I should run him won't do any good so she just walks away when I mention going to another vet. I'm not sure I have Matt totally sold on it either but he's got enough barrel horse experience to not question my judgement.
I'm an hour north of Independence KS if that gives you any idea of my distance from Bristol. His feet have been feeling pretty darn good the last year or so, and Equipack seems to have helped the last couple shoeings. Granted he's a little off right now because he's missing one of the front shoes but we'll get that replaced this week. He's been running and playing even without that shoe but I'll be glad when my shoer gets home and can reset it.
We haven't checked whorlbones but it will be on my list. Hocks, stifles, whorlbones, kissing spine, feet of course.......I'm going to have to go back through and see if there are any suggestions I've missed. Yes I am that annoying horse owner who has a list longer than her arm of things to ask about at the vet clinic because learning something new is always one of my goals for a vet visit.
Edited by rodeowithjoker 2014-04-27 3:39 PM
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| Have not read but three posts on this last page of this thread...probably won't have time to look through it all, but just wanted to say CHIN UP!!! You are smart and will find your way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:-) |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-27 3:35 PM
readytorodeo - 2014-04-27 2:47 PM I know your frustration. I have a really nice mare. Went through what your going through. Vets telling me she was fine and to run her. I knew she wasn't. I finally found someone who would listen. It was her feet. Found a great Shoer and a vet that knows what to look for in barrel horses. You know your horse. Don't stop till you get the answers. Have you checked his whirlbone for soreness.? My mares feet caused soreness in the whirlbone and SI. That is the part that sucks the most. My family members have thought I was wasting my money all year looking for problems with him, but finally last month my Dad got stuck taking him to a couple vet appointments (chiro/vet who found the SI soreness and the vet who did the SI injections) and now at least Dad is a believer. He's stopped questioning me when I've said there is something else that's still not right. Mom has kind of figured out that saying he's not lame and I should run him won't do any good so she just walks away when I mention going to another vet. I'm not sure I have Matt totally sold on it either but he's got enough barrel horse experience to not question my judgement.
I'm an hour north of Independence KS if that gives you any idea of my distance from Bristol. His feet have been feeling pretty darn good the last year or so, and Equipack seems to have helped the last couple shoeings. Granted he's a little off right now because he's missing one of the front shoes but we'll get that replaced this week. He's been running and playing even without that shoe but I'll be glad when my shoer gets home and can reset it.
We haven't checked whorlbones but it will be on my list. Hocks, stifles, whorlbones, kissing spine, feet of course.......I'm going to have to go back through and see if there are any suggestions I've missed. Yes I am that annoying horse owner who has a list longer than her arm of things to ask about at the vet clinic because learning something new is always one of my goals for a vet visit.
The only thing I will add is, and this is a general statement, people need to do their homework on the vets that are going to be working on their horses.
This week I had time to "interview" a vet as mine is close to retirement. I asked his thoughts on MRI, fluoroscope, surgery, laser surgery, stem cells, and How he assess a horse. This vet also comes highly recommended by other barrel racers in my area, and honestly I can see him getting my business once the vet I currently use retires.
Also I drive 4 hours one way to see the current vet, I have learned my lesson twice over, that the distance is irrelevant to get the correct answer. |
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10D Crack Champion
| readytorodeo - 2014-04-27 2:47 PM How close are you to Bristol Oklahoma?
Where is Bristol, Oklahoma? I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I have never heard of it. Which vet is in Bristol, OK? Do you mean Bristow, Oklahoma? If so, Dr. Mitchell (the dad) is not practicing anymore. I know he was ill and retired I think. Not sure, but maybe his son took over his practice. I could be wrong about all this. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | sodapop - 2014-04-27 8:58 PM readytorodeo - 2014-04-27 2:47 PM How close are you to Bristol Oklahoma? Where is Bristol, Oklahoma? I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I have never heard of it. Which vet is in Bristol, OK? Do you mean Bristow, Oklahoma? If so, Dr. Mitchell (the dad) is not practicing anymore. I know he was ill and retired I think. Not sure, but maybe his son took over his practice. I could be wrong about all this.
His son was already the main vet, even before Doc Mitchell had his stroke, but old Doc was still working when he wanted to. Bill is a good vet, but he doesn't do the voodoo. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Good luck at the vet, Melanie!
I think some reading glasses are in order for some of our ladies around here..........  |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas |
Thanks.
I absolutely hate that vets not being able to correctly and completely diagnose Chance's issues have created my confusion, led me to post looking for more ideas & opinions, and eventually ruined the mature, upbeat, "I want to learn" reputation that I spent years cultivating on BHW. I think that's what I'm most upset about - the fact that people find it so easily to believe the worst about someone they've never met.
I really do try to care for my horses the best way possible, but it is an uphill battle with a family of non-barrel racers and no amazing lameness vets around here. Honestly I thought I was using the best horse vet in southeast KS. |
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 A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-28 12:45 PM
Thanks.
I absolutely hate that vets not being able to correctly and completely diagnose Chance's issues have created my confusion, led me to post looking for more ideas & opinions, and eventually ruined the mature, upbeat, "I want to learn" reputation that I spent years cultivating on BHW. I think that's what I'm most upset about - the fact that people find it so easily to believe the worst about someone they've never met.
I really do try to care for my horses the best way possible, but it is an uphill battle with a family of non-barrel racers and no amazing lameness vets around here. Honestly I thought I was using the best horse vet in southeast KS.
I've learned something about some of the folks on BHW (& in the world in general): You'll never please them. No matter who you take your horse to or what you have done to find out the problem, it will never be good enough for them. They will always have such and such problem you missed or think you just didn't do enough.
It's your horse. You know him better than anyone. And you're doing what you can. No one else can ask you to do more than you are. But opinions abound and everyone has one. As soon as one dog tastes blood, the rest show up to taste it too. Just how these things go.
Do the best you can with whats available. That's all you can do.
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | hlynn - 2014-04-28 11:54 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-28 12:45 PM Thanks. I absolutely hate that vets not being able to correctly and completely diagnose Chance's issues have created my confusion, led me to post looking for more ideas & opinions, and eventually ruined the mature, upbeat, "I want to learn" reputation that I spent years cultivating on BHW. I think that's what I'm most upset about - the fact that people find it so easily to believe the worst about someone they've never met. I really do try to care for my horses the best way possible, but it is an uphill battle with a family of non-barrel racers and no amazing lameness vets around here. Honestly I thought I was using the best horse vet in southeast KS. I've learned something about some of the folks on BHW (& in the world in general ): You'll never please them. No matter who you take your horse to or what you have done to find out the problem, it will never be good enough for them. They will always have such and such problem you missed or think you just didn't do enough. It's your horse. You know him better than anyone. And you're doing what you can. No one else can ask you to do more than you are. But opinions abound and everyone has one. As soon as one dog tastes blood, the rest show up to taste it too. Just how these things go. Do the best you can with whats available. That's all you can do.
Pretty sure that's right. But I really am trying, and I do want to learn. Sorry if some folks have thought I ignored past advice or continually ran a sore horse - that was never my intent at all. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas |
No body needs any glasses, they are all just giving their honest opinions. |
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Do you see any pain issues in this video?