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Location: Tumbleweed Capital of the World | I recently acquired a 3 year old filly (I say "acquired" because she was given to me) that I sent to a reining trainer to get some ground work done on. Backstory - she goes back to Sunfrost, out of a mare who is the granddaughter of Cannonade (1974 Kentucky Derby winner) - she was never halter broke, much less anything else. Now she is 3 and the owner had several colts that he had never done anything with, and wanted to find homes for them. My friend asked me if I'd be interested in this filly, which I was/am, so I got her about a month ago. I have been so busy that I knew I couldn't give her the time she needed, which is why I sent her to a reining trainer who I highly respect. Fast forward to today - he says she's unsafe, "counterfeit" is the word he used to describe her. She tolerates everything except human contact. She's a biter, and a kicker, and doesn't give you any warning what she's getting ready to do. So now, I don't know what to do. I want to give her every chance to be a productive citizen, but I don't want a dangerous horse. Maybe she hates men? Maybe she hates being in a corral all the time? Anybody ever have a colt like this? I need suggestions! |
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Member
Posts: 42
| I doubt she hates men but I'd send her to someone is actually a colt breaker. Im sure your reining guy is great but she might need someone who specializes in colts. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | I sent you a P.M. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | I had a mare (4years old when I got her) that was FLAT DANGEROUS. Bit, kicked, charged, struck - HORRIBLE. She had been both abused AND allowed to get away with anything. But I loved her and was a teenager and was never going to be talked out of her. She wasn't even halter broke when I got her, you'd have had better luck trying to halter an alligator. We loaded her into our stock trailer using cattle panels and lunge whips (for protection).
We took her straight to a trainer (who has since passed away) that worked primarily starting mustangs and followed a lot of Buck Brannaman type of methods. She spent.... Six months there I think....
She turned into a WHOPPER of an equitation hunter and I won TONS on her. She was a DREAM to ride, but you could never fully trust her on the ground. She'd still try to test you every now and then. And you couldn't hardly discipline her such as a pop to the face if she bit you, because then she would FIGHT you - which probably comes from the years of abuse. I lost her to pneumonia in 2005 - and I'm a bit grateful. I would NEVER have kept her once I had kids, but I also know she probably would have ended up in a kill pen if I ever had to sell her to somebody else.
There's definitely hope for the nasty ones, but not all of them, and not always 100%. I'd say mine recovered 75%, but I was an idiot teenager - so like, whatever ;) I'd send her to a colt starter or somebody who works with problem horses primarily - rather than a specific discipline trainer. She needs horse rehab essentially.
Good luck, and keep us posted. |
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 BHW Cheerleader!!
Posts: 6847
Location: Where it is too cold, SD | Well? She is 3 and never handled - you say you only had her a month and so that tells me the trainer couldn't have really have had her in his care for very long.
Is he someone that trains after they are started under the saddle? Because she might just need a good solid 90 days of basic basic colt breaking first - hours standing tied up is all she may need for now and gentling her down. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I had one that was sketchy, not handled till two, sire was untrainable and dangerous.
Long story short with the proper trainer for her personality she has become a wonderful 5 year old, but I still will not trust her when it comes to kicking, if you startle her she will kick out.
I suggest finding a trainer and speak with them about her personality. As there are some horses you have a fragile mind and cannot be bullied. The trainer needs to know when to push and when to stop. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | She needs someone who does ground work and round pen work. I know someone in OK that is awesome, but I don't know where you live, so that may be too far away. |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24952
Location: WYOMING | Stress, nerves and fear will make one act counterfit. Patience and time can work wonders.
Edited by geronabean 2014-04-23 6:23 PM
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 Toy Story Fanatic
Posts: 4148
Location: Oregon | Agree with Diane and Geronabean. I bought a paint stud(now gelding) He would raise his head, open his mouth and charge me. Took about 2 lessons on that one and they weren't pretty. He also tried to kick me(another painful lesson..for him) The rest was just basic ground work for months. He was so skinny and stunted that he could not be rode. So I worked with him daily. Brushing, teaching him to give, back, whoa. You name it..I did it from the ground. He is now very respectful of humans. I do not worry about him pulling the shenanagins he did back then. Once I gained his trust and respect it ended. Never been touched or worked with at that age it will take you longer. My job was made easier because he was barely the size of a yearling when I got him but much skinnier.
Edited by squeek 2014-04-23 7:30 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 222
Location: Texas | Get a second opinion first. But if the next trainer agrees send that filly down the road. There is nothing worse then a counterfeit horse. When you really need them they won't give it to you or they will cheat you in a dirty way. I absolutely hate horses with no heart. Heart is more important then color breed or bloodlines IMHO. Can you tell this is something very important to me? LOL we have started a couple conterfit horses some work out of it ok and can be productive with the right owner. Others just wait until the right moment to put you in the dirt or hurt you. We will not keep a horse that doesn't have a huge heart and we will definitely not breed something without heart. To many nice ones out there. |
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 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | Alls I can say is there is a reason. |
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| Call a rodeo stock contractor .......... you will never be able to trust this filly ... and she will get you after being 'broke' by the best ... because the colt breaker is the only one she has learned to respect ...
FREE IS NEVER CHEAP IN MONEY OR LIFE ... |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | She may be counterfeit compared to a reiner prospect. But, that doesn't mean she won't come around for someone who's willing to change up their program and work with her.
I had a similar experience...a 2 y/o was given to me that had very little human contact. The contact he had was for doctoring, so he was pretty rotten. I sent him to a friend/trainer and he was awesome with him, but could only spend 30 days and told me to bring him back as a 3 y/o. I turned him out until then, but the trainer didn't have room so he sent me somewhere else. The lady that took him said he was "a bronc" and advised me to sell him.
Without getting into the gory details, I did not feel like he was given a fair shake with the 2nd trainer. After talking with the first trainer again, I sent him off to a third trainer and things went much better.
Long story short, he's 4 now. He NOT a bronc, but I hardly have any time to spend with him, so he can be cold-backed sometimes. I'm still not sure if I will keep or sell him, but given even more time, he will make a nice horse.
Good luck and best wishes. I understand the heartache and frustration!
PS If you want inspiration, watch "Wild Horse, Wild Ride". Wylene Wilson rode my colt, her husband, Randall Davis, is the third trainer that I used and the one I highly recommend. That's the type of riding and experience these horses need, imo.
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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | One month and he's calling her counterfeit? He may be right, but if you really want to give her a chance, I'd send her to someone else. |
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | One of my biggest peeves is not teaching the basics and then be almost ready to write a horse off after so few rides. This is a 3 yr old that should be at a colt starter learning confidence and the basics. To me it's kind of like sending a kid to a calculus class before they have learned basic addition. Find another trainer that can put some outside miles on your colt and has the patience to not write the colt off when it screws up. You are building the foundation for what this horse is going to be for the rest of its life and that just doesn't h a open in 60 days.
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I've had some nasty ones come through in my time. However, reining prospects (I'm picturing my sweet little innocent Doc O'lena mare) have a completely different mindset than anything Sunfrost. I equivocate anything Sunfrost with anything Hancock. Can be a tad waspy, rude, and dominate, but once you earn their trust and show them that you have WAY more time for them to be miserable than they do, they're all yours.
I'd let somebody that savvies true round pen work and probably a foot rope have a crack at her. They might need 60 days to undo what the reiner got her thinking she could get away with. Just my thoughts. |
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"Counterfeit" 3 yr old - any suggestions?