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| As far as value of siblings and their offspring?
For example, Horse A and Horse B are full siblings. Horse A gets in the hands of capable people and becomes excellent performer and then produces excellent performers. Horse B is less fortunate and doesn't perform as well as Horse A.
Thoughts?
Edited by darchick 2014-04-24 4:05 PM
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
  
Location: Riding Crackhead. | IMO there's a huge difference. Take me for instance. I'm amazing. Just ask me. My brothers.......not so much.
In all seriousness I saw full siblings to Jill Moody's NFR mount Dolly not amount to near what Dolly did and they were even in the same hands as Dolly herself.
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I don't think they are very similar going on ones I have ridden. Even the full brothers and full sisters that produce aren't usually equal. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I've known a few past kick butt barrel mares that produced kick butt barrel horses and were with different studs and then I've seen full siblings that were nothing alike. I would think it might have something to do how tight their lineage is. Could be way off as I'm not a breeder. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I look more at half siblings. But I do look at full as well. And by half, I mean what their dam produced. I always look at what the sire's side produces, but what REALLY intrigues me is a dam that produces consistent winners. That's the key- does she produce consistent winners. If you see 2 or 3 babies doing really well out of the same dam, I am definitely going to notice. Definitely helps for resale and breeding purposes.
For example- my shazoom daughter is a half sister to Dashin Czar, 2014 futurity standout. My mare got hurt, I did the surgery on her stifle, but school got too hectic for me to give her a half decent shot at rehab/legging up, so I listed her for sale at broodmare price. She sold in one day on Facebook.
Another example- My reckless Dash mare is a 1/2 sister to Levin Lucille, futurity standout with Dena Kirkpatrick. Also hauled by Ryan Lovendahl and Marilee Deines. She had career LTE in excess of $100,000 in futurity, open, and pro rodeo earnings. My mare is a PRCA rodeo winner herself. Her full sister, Lucy Lucille, won over $13,000 in futurity earnings. I think it's safe to say that Leavem Lucille (their dam) is a producer.
Look at the race horses- their whole catalog system is based off what the dam produced, and you can tell a lot about the success of a particular bloodline with a good catalog page.
There is never a guarantee that your horse is going to be a winner. Even if you pay X amount for the horse, who his parents are, and who his siblings are. There are no guarantees, but it definitely puts the odds in your favor. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | It all depends on the horse, IMO. I have a full bro/sis and they are like night and day. The gelding is older and can be a complete azz, but he is a nice head horse for hubby. He is not very soft and will fight you on occasion. He likes to do things on his terms. The filly on the other hand, is SUPER light and so much more athletic than him. Everything comes natural for her and she is much more willing. |
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| If your talking strictly blood lines.. I would say horse B would not be worthless, but obviously horse A is more valuble. If I had a horse that was even half sibling of a great horse id still be excited about it, not trying to recreate another horses accomplishment or expecting it, just bring the horse to the potential it has an an individual. |
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 Peecans
| darchick - 2014-04-24 3:01 PM
As far as value of siblings and their offspring?
For example, Horse A and Horse B are full siblings. Horse A gets in the hands of capable people and becomes excellent performer and then produces excellent performers. Horse B is less fortunate and doesn't perform as well as Horse A.
Thoughts?
Even when the both win, one is always better and more valabule than the other.
Take rey dual (lte of 123,000+) and dual rey (lte 105,000+) even though Rey Dual has won more money he dosent produce as well as his full brother hence a 1, 500 stud fee when his full brother (Dual Rey) is a 12,000 stud fee.
Both sucessful Cowie NICE horses but not at all even in he breeding shed. |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I don't think I would ever breed to a stud just because of what a sibling did. Performance is the result we are trying to acheive. Bloodlines could increase the chances of attaining that desired level of performance. Same idea with conformation. With a sibling, bloodlines are there but the performance record may not be. Like Corona Cartel and King Corona. Same bloodlines, but Corona Cartel performed and produced, while King Corona, who is nice in his own right, didn't perform or produce to the same level of Corona Cartel. But I can see why an owner of a sibling to a nice horse wouldn't risk failure. The sibling is worth more without the record than if it didn't perform well. Back to my opinon: a stallion should be able to stand on his own merits.
Edited by Whiteboy 2014-04-24 4:48 PM
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I'm anxious to watch how the full bros. like LSOF and OAG compare on what they produce. Also anxious to see how the clones produce, specifically the fg clones since there are multiple. |
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| I should clarify that I'm talking about mares that are full siblings and are out of a mare with multiple perfomers by several different stallions. Just so happens, these mares have the same sire. Mare A performs and produces wonderfully. Mare B, not much to write home about as far as documented performance record and offspring. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I would say a full sibling's value would increase IF it was a prospect, weanling or yearling, maybe a two year old. As then there is hope the success can be replicated.
If the horse is over the futurity age and did not futurity, then the value of the horse decreases, as then people suspect there is something wrong, counterfeit, soundness issues, etc and in general most horses value decreases after futurity year as most people focus on futurity.
In short if the horse is over futurity year, your horse is worth less then she would have been as a 0-2 yr old.
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Whiteboy - 2014-04-24 4:51 PM I'm anxious to watch how the full bros. like LSOF and OAG compare on what they produce. Also anxious to see how the clones produce, specifically the fg clones since there are multiple.
This interests me also. Especially the FG clones. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | CYA Ranch - 2014-04-24 7:02 PM Whiteboy - 2014-04-24 4:51 PM I'm anxious to watch how the full bros. like LSOF and OAG compare on what they produce. Also anxious to see how the clones produce, specifically the fg clones since there are multiple. This interests me also. Especially the FG clones.
I think it will be hard to compare the 2 because of the mares being bred. OAG has big race people buying his up and paying a pretty penny for them. He is breeding him to some really nice blacktype producing race mares. I expect them to be sent to the track vs the arena.
LSOF is being bred to barrel mares, not sure what type, and they are more likely to stay in the arena.
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-04-24 8:31 PM
CYA Ranch - 2014-04-24 7:02 PM Whiteboy - 2014-04-24 4:51 PM I'm anxious to watch how the full bros. like LSOF and OAG compare on what they produce. Also anxious to see how the clones produce, specifically the fg clones since there are multiple. This interests me also. Especially the FG clones.
LSOF is being bred to barrel mares, not sure what type, and they are more likely to stay in the arena.
It's hard to say right now. I know of two 3 year olds that getting ready for the barrel arena next year. I have not seen any go to the track yet but it's still early for this years 2 yr.olds. Both Studs have a colt in this weekends sale at the BBR. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-24 6:44 PM
I would say a full sibling's value would increase IF it was a prospect, weanling or yearling, maybe a two year old. As then there is hope the success can be replicated.
If the horse is over the futurity age and did not futurity, then the value of the horse decreases, as then people suspect there is something wrong, counterfeit, soundness issues, etc and in general most horses value decreases after futurity year as most people focus on futurity.
In short if the horse is over futurity year, your horse is worth less then she would have been as a 0-2 yr old.
I agree- it helps you out a lot more before the horse hits the arena. All about the gamble. Once it proves itself that its either- just as good, or not as good, then the value is more based on the horse as an individual. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If you are looking at selling a foal out of the non proven mare and expecting more money because you will be advertising
Out of full sister to ______. If the mare hadn't won I would not buy the foal unless it was a steal of price and out of a really good sire |
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| cheryl makofka - 2014-04-24 9:29 PM If you are looking at selling a foal out of the non proven mare and expecting more money because you will be advertising Out of full sister to ______. If the mare hadn't won I would not buy the foal unless it was a steal of price and out of a really good sire
So a foal by a good sire and out of an unproven full sister to, say, a famous gelding such as "Latte" or "Worm" should be priced as a "steal?"
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I don't think so. I think a full sister to Latte will command good prices for her babies, if there's one out there. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | CYA Ranch - 2014-04-24 4:11 PM IMO there's a huge difference. Take me for instance. I'm amazing. Just ask me. My brothers.......not so much.
In all seriousness I saw full siblings to Jill Moody's NFR mount Dolly not amount to near what Dolly did and they were even in the same hands as Dolly herself.
well said |
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Does success of full siblings have any merit for other siblings?