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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 887
  
Location: MN | I have a female GSD that we adopted about 2 1/2 years ago. She's czech bred and was started in protection and drug detection work. The handlers determined that she could not be with other dogs because of her aggression and put her up for adoption. They first declined my application because I have other dogs. I pleaded my case ( I was so drawn to her!), they visited, Ari did great and she's been with us since. We've had a few episodes of her going after others, but I wasn't worried since the were very limited instances and easily broken up.
Anxiety wise, if Ari is anywhere that she can't see what she wants she will lick the hell out of her sides and grab her tail and chew or spin circles. Even going out for the bathroom then behing left to hang outside on her own will trigger this. Lately, the random attacks at other dogs has been increasing. My husband is at his end and fights at me. His solution is very permanent and "cheap", if you know what i mean! He is worried not only that a harmless dog will be killed (the one Ari goes after is a Corgi), but one of our kids would get hurt. I'm having a hard time. Ending her isn't fair. But she can't get along with other dogs (even non-alphas as we've now learned), she has had unpredictable moments, and we feel like she'd have to be medicated the rest of her life to live in town. She is spayed and gets plenty of time to get burn energy. Suggestions - please!
Siren, if you see this, this is my Vandenhuval female.
Edited by Echo 2014-04-26 10:31 AM
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  Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | Do some research on dogs and prozac, then take her to your vet asap. She sounds like she really has some anxiety/ocd issues and might be really good candidate to go on it. Killing her isn't fair at all, especially when they didn't want to approve your application due to her aggression with other dogs and you were able to talk them into it. Don't mean to sound harsh, but I volunteer in rescue and we have people get mad or try to persuade us all the time when their applications are turned down, or we think a different dog would be better in their household - we want nothing more thant he right home for the dog and have rules in place for a reason. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Call the place where you adopted her and tell them what is going on with her, and maybe they can rehome her. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Southtxponygirl - 2014-04-26 11:22 AM Call the place where you adopted her and tell them what is going on with her, and maybe they can rehome her.
THIS, I bet they will take her back
This will happen... if it didn't work out, I doubt they will hold it against you. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | I am amazed that 1. this outfit "adopted" a known aggressive dog to a house with other animals and children. How much did they charge you for this paragon of dogdom? And 2. That you would bring this nutcase into your home with other animals and children and go all limp on offing it. Listen to your husband and shoot it. |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24952
Location: WYOMING | You got what you were told she was. Take her back or find her someplace that an AGGRESSIVE dog can live. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 887
Location: MN | Yes, I knew what her history was. My case was I wanted a dog that was independent to me. One to travel with and run with. Not necessarily to be a family cuddle dog. When they visited, Ari was completely comfortable and relaxed. The handlers were quite shocked! We figured that her aggression prior was because she was so high energy that she could not find a balance with other high energy dogs. Here, everyone was low key.The scuffles we had after several months of living peacefully were typically when my Corgi would not back down. No particular trigger, just body language. Now being aware of their body signals I could watch to diffuse any issues. In the recent months is when she's gotten a hold of the Corgi with more verocity.
She has NEVER, EVER had any aggression towards a person outside of her actual training. There was one fight that I had to get in and soon as she realized she was on my arm with just a slight bit of pressure she completely turned off from the fight mode. She did not come from a rescue group or on a contract. However, I do work with a group myself and I am well aware of resources available. And absolutely, it's been on my mind. But what I'm trying to work through is living in a medicated cloud the rest of her life fair? I'm willing to try it! Part of my reaching out is for reports on experiences anyone may have with that. Does something like prozac just take of the edge and help them calm or completely put them in la-la land?
Edited by Echo 2014-04-26 12:36 PM
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | geronabean - 2014-04-26 12:09 PM You got what you were told she was. Take her back or find her someplace that an AGGRESSIVE dog can live.
^^^ THIS.....It isn't fair to the dog to be put down because YOU were the catalyst in this dog being in your home......and do it immediately before one of your dogs or (heaven forbid) your child gets hurt. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 887
Location: MN | I truely do not think she is a risk to any person or child. She has very stable nerves when it comes to relationships with people. Husband's opinion that she would do harm, not mine, and no I'm not being ignorant. He has never been a fan. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | These type of dogs have to be worked mentally to.. This was not a good home for him to begin with other dogs knowing he can be aggressive and if you have children .. bad combination
find a home suitable for dog. a working environment or a one owner one pet enviroment. it isnt fair to dog to be put in this situation where he is.. with you all.His enviroment is causing his anxiety. not him..
he doesnt deserve to die.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-04-26 12:42 PM
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 Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| Are you seriously willing to take a chance with your children? This is mind boggling. |
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Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | Echo - 2014-04-26 12:30 PM Yes, I knew what her history was. My case was I wanted a dog that was independent to me. One to travel with and run with. Not necessarily to be a family cuddle dog. When they visited, Ari was completely comfortable and relaxed. The handlers were quite shocked! We figured that her aggression prior was because she was so high energy that she could not find a balance with other high energy dogs. Here, everyone was low key.The scuffles we had after several months of living peacefully were typically when my Corgi would not back down. No particular trigger, just body language. Now being aware of their body signals I could watch to diffuse any issues. In the recent months is when she's gotten a hold of the Corgi with more verocity.
She has NEVER, EVER had any aggression towards a person outside of her actual training. There was one fight that I had to get in and soon as she realized she was on my arm with just a slight bit of pressure she completely turned off from the fight mode. She did not come from a rescue group or on a contract. However, I do work with a group myself and I am well aware of resources available. And absolutely, it's been on my mind. But what I'm trying to work through is living in a medicated cloud the rest of her life fair? I'm willing to try it! Part of my reaching out is for reports on experiences anyone may have with that. Does something like prozac just take of the edge and help them calm or completely put them in la-la land? This is a common misconception about Prozac, and anti-depression meds in general. It doesn't act as a sedative on people or animals. It is an SSRI (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor) which helps the neurons in the brain fire correctly and therefore reduces anxiety and alleviates depression. It is known to help in agressive dogs, I believe that was the first application in animals. Obviously it isn't a one size fits all thing, or guaranteed to remove all problems, but it can help. We have a dog aggressive dog who also had anxiety issues and got fixated on things and couldn't settle himself down. Our vet prescribed Prozac and it has helped a lot with the anxiety. His agression is fear based and is still there, but less so,we practice a crate and rotate situation with our dogs.
On another note, it's proven that dog/dog or dog/animal agression is entirely separate from dog/human agression. A dog agressive dog is very unlikely to be agressive towards humans, and I would bet that holds true with your dog given it's extensive training with people. Humans are more likely to get hurt in these situation only when they're trying to break up fights.
Good luck with your dog and thank you for trying to make her life better.
Edited by Calangelo 2014-04-26 12:48 PM
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 Peecans
| It sounds like she's getting worse???
Have you looked into anything medical? Brain tumor possibly?
Honistly though (and please dont take this the wrong way) from the little bit you said about her and how she acts her life sounds pretty sad right now.
I hope you can figure it out and give her what she needs no matter what it is.
My uncles retired K9 dog (he was a police officer) did the same biting tale spinning random attacks and he did have a brain tumor and had to be put to sleep. Best of luck to you. |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | Our german shepherd could not be left alone with other dogs. We had a big kennel area, partially covered and with 3 dog houses underneath that we used to lock the dogs in when we weren't home. Ika kept attacking the other two dogs (english setter and a spaniel-mix) when they were locked up even though we'd never seen her be aggressive when everyone was out running around. We separated her and gave her her own area. But if she would have been trying to attack the dogs when they were out and doing their own thing, or if she would have been aggressive to people or gone after the horses/calves, my dad would not have hesitated to shoot her.
I'm a little miffed they let you have her. I used to work at a vet that also adopted dogs out and it was irritating when we would STATE that a dog could not go to a home with other dogs/cats/children and people would inquire about them anyway.
ETA speaking of my own dog, there is NO WAY she would have been able to live in a house with other dogs. I think the only reason she was okay is that we have a lot of property (125 acres and a huge fenced yard) and she had ways to burn her energy and didn't have to be around the other dogs if she didn't want to be. In fact she never really liked any of our dogs except later we got a chocolate lab puppy and she loved her; Ika was old by that time but she would play with the puppy. But other than that she just wanted to be with us, she would follow me around while I worked with the horses and stuff and pretty much ignore the other dogs.
Edited by livexlovexrodeo 2014-04-26 1:03 PM
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | If you have children why take a chance one of them could get hurt, I would be finding her a new home, call the Adoption group where she came from, please let them rehome her. This is not fair for this dog. It's not if she will hurt one of the other dogs are kids but sounds like a when. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 887
Location: MN | I see the point about the prior handler moving forward with me. Had there been any alarm during their visit we would have both kept our separate ways. They came out to my farm and we hung out the afternoon. Ari was completely content, they said they had never seen her so relaxed. And with that we concluded she was in a good spot.
Good point on the mental stimulation. She has intense ball drive, so we can take that on more and look into other activities for her.
Maybe my use of 'random' isn't being taken as I meant it. The random part is she can go two weeks or two months normal as can be, then this morning she fought with the corgi. And it's only the corgi. Our other dog can jump on her and bounce all over the place and Ari just keeps on trotting. The kids are absolutely aware to never get in between with the dogs.
Edited by Echo 2014-04-26 1:18 PM
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Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | Echo - 2014-04-26 1:15 PM I see the point about the prior handler moving forward with me. Had there been any alarm during their visit we would have both kept our separate ways. They came out to my farm and we hung out the afternoon. Ari was completely content, they said they had never seen her so relaxed. And with that we concluded she was in a good spot.Good point on the mental stimulation. She has intense ball drive, so we can take that on more and look into other activities for her.Maybe my use of 'random' isn't being taken as I meant it. The random part is she can go two weeks or two months normal as can be, then this morning she fought with the corgi. And it's only the corgi. Our other dog can jump on her and bounce all over the place and Ari just keeps on trotting. The kids are absolutely aware to never get in between with the dogs. It may be that the corgi is doing something to set her off that you're not seeing? Not saying that she shouldn't be controlling herself from being the aggressor, but perhaps it could be a training issue that you can work on with a professional between the corgi and the other dog?
Edited by Calangelo 2014-04-26 1:19 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | della - 2014-04-26 11:50 AM
It sounds like she's getting worse???
Have you looked into anything medical? Brain tumor possibly?
Honistly though (and please dont take this the wrong way) from the little bit you said about her and how she acts her life sounds pretty sad right now.
I hope you can figure it out and give her what she needs no matter what it is.
My uncles retired K9 dog (he was a police officer) did the same biting tale spinning random attacks and he did have a brain tumor and had to be put to sleep. Best of luck to you.
Along the lines of what Della said, it appears to me that her anxiety is increasing and she is struggling to deal with all the stimulants in her environment. This is a sad situation to be in for everyone involved.
I have a middle aged Border Collie that was that way toward my Kelpie. I lived in a fairly busy house with a lot going on and it just raised her anxiety levels to the point that she would lash out particularly at my Kelpie because she is a more in your face type of dog. I was in denial about how bad the situation got until they got into it one day and both dogs ended up having to go to the vet to have drain tubes put in bite wounds. After that I called my parents who have a much more low key environment and asked if they would be willing to take my BC.
Since living with them she has blossomed into a happy healthy dog again that is relaxed and actually enjoys life. Sometimes we don't realize quite how bad a situation has gotten until we remove ourselves (our the affected animal) and reevaluate.
In your situation I would consider rehoming instead of medicating. I was heart sick over the damage my two girls caused each other and I can't imagine how I would feel if my BC had gotten ahold of my corgi, the size difference alone probably would have resulted in her death. I know it's hard to have to consider giving up one of your babies, but you have to be realistic and think about how the consequences of keeping her will affect your family. Injured corgi, injured child, or just more arguments between you and your husband, and then decide if it's worth it to you. We can sit here on this board and tell you all day long what we think is best for you but in the end it's your situation, I just felt like I should share my story with you to give you some more food for thought.
If you would like to send me a PM I can give you more details on what happened, or just be a sounding board.
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | redmansmyman11 - 2014-04-26 2:33 PM della - 2014-04-26 11:50 AM It sounds like she's getting worse??? Have you looked into anything medical? Brain tumor possibly? Honistly though (and please dont take this the wrong way) from the little bit you said about her and how she acts her life sounds pretty sad right now. I hope you can figure it out and give her what she needs no matter what it is. My uncles retired K9 dog (he was a police officer) did the same biting tale spinning random attacks and he did have a brain tumor and had to be put to sleep. Best of luck to you. Along the lines of what Della said, it appears to me that her anxiety is increasing and she is struggling to deal with all the stimulants in her environment. This is a sad situation to be in for everyone involved. I have a middle aged Border Collie that was that way toward my Kelpie. I lived in a fairly busy house with a lot going on and it just raised her anxiety levels to the point that she would lash out particularly at my Kelpie because she is a more in your face type of dog. I was in denial about how bad the situation got until they got into it one day and both dogs ended up having to go to the vet to have drain tubes put in bite wounds. After that I called my parents who have a much more low key environment and asked if they would be willing to take my BC. Since living with them she has blossomed into a happy healthy dog again that is relaxed and actually enjoys life. Sometimes we don't realize quite how bad a situation has gotten until we remove ourselves (our the affected animal ) and reevaluate. In your situation I would consider rehoming instead of medicating. I was heart sick over the damage my two girls caused each other and I can't imagine how I would feel if my BC had gotten ahold of my corgi, the size difference alone probably would have resulted in her death. I know it's hard to have to consider giving up one of your babies, but you have to be realistic and think about how the consequences of keeping her will affect your family. Injured corgi, injured child, or just more arguments between you and your husband, and then decide if it's worth it to you. We can sit here on this board and tell you all day long what we think is best for you but in the end it's your situation, I just felt like I should share my story with you to give you some more food for thought. If you would like to send me a PM I can give you more details on what happened, or just be a sounding board.
good advice |
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Expert
Posts: 1255
| I got a big Shepard from the pound that weights more than I do and he came with problems of carrying extra large rocks and logs and he wines till he can pick them up and at the end of the day he likes to drop them in water tough or food bowl but when I first got him he growled at me if I held up anything that looked like a stick and I've thought about having a trainer work with him. |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | Some animals just aren't wired, just like humans, to be social. I wouldn't take a chance on her going after one of my kids. She's a dog, there's more out there. |
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Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | "The random part is she can go two weeks or two months normal as can be, then this morning she fought with the corgi. And it's only the corgi. Our other dog can jump on her and bounce all over the place and Ari just keeps on trotting. The kids are absolutely aware to never get in between with the dogs." Wow. So your kids have to live their lives always knowing where your crazy dog is? How nice for them. How old are they, that they have this responsibility? And just because to date she has not attacked the other dog, does not mean she never will. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 887
Location: MN | GoGaited - 2014-04-26 7:18 PM "The random part is she can go two weeks or two months normal as can be, then this morning she fought with the corgi. And it's only the corgi. Our other dog can jump on her and bounce all over the place and Ari just keeps on trotting. The kids are absolutely aware to never get in between with the dogs." Wow. So your kids have to live their lives always knowing where your crazy dog is? How nice for them. How old are they, that they have this responsibility? And just because to date she has not attacked the other dog, does not mean she never will. That's not the illustration I was trying to make. Whether it be our animals or others, there are standards and I think everyone knows not getting in the middle of a dog fight is one of them. It's frustrating to reach out for insight/experiences/help and be condemned. I am thankful for the responses and responses that have been constructive to help me work through this and give some direction.
Edited by Echo 2014-04-27 8:37 AM
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | As mentioned, contact previous owner and have them help you rehome her to a situation that will accommodate her behaviour & issues....or if there are any GSD rescues in your area or state.
Edited by dream_chaser 2014-04-26 8:58 PM
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Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | GoGaited - 2014-04-26 7:18 PM "The random part is she can go two weeks or two months normal as can be, then this morning she fought with the corgi. And it's only the corgi. Our other dog can jump on her and bounce all over the place and Ari just keeps on trotting. The kids are absolutely aware to never get in between with the dogs." Wow. So your kids have to live their lives always knowing where your crazy dog is? How nice for them. How old are they, that they have this responsibility? And just because to date she has not attacked the other dog, does not mean she never will.
There's really no reason to get so nasty. She's here asking for help. |
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Randomly aggressive dog help! Siren!