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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I was watching this youtube video about "The Race that Shocked the World" this morning. I don't know how many of you remember some of the track and field athletes of the 80s, but that was a very colorful era and full of controversy. That was when the idea of "doping" became front stage and center. Here are some random names: Carl Lewis, Ben Johnson, Linford Christie, and, of course who can forget Flo Jo? The video is about an hour long and very well done. I started it and couldn't stop. There was a very intense rivalry between these sprinters, especially Lewis and Johnson and it culminated in the epic showdown in the 1988 Olympics in Seoul. All 8 finalists in that 100 meter finals was a super star in his own right but all eyes were on Johnson and Lewis who made no secret of the fact that they hated each other. Johnson won, and shattered the world record, and Lewis came in second. Two days later the drug testing results came back positive for Johnson, and he was stripped of his medal and shunned. Overnight he went from a national hero and super star, to a humiliated, shunned villian. The video reveals that pretty much everyone doped back then, regardless of whether they were caught or not. Anyway, it was well worth watching. One drug I heard mentioned a couple times was "Winstrol". Then I got to thinking about doping in barrel racing. I wonder what percentage of high level competitors are doping and I wonder how many horses who have won big futurities have been juiced. I always have been amused at how this subject seems to get swept under the rug and how it inflames some people. Why would that be? I have the impression that it is pretty much common knowledge that doping is rampant in barrel racing, especially at the high levels. When will something finally be done about it - uniformly and across the board?
Here's the link, if you are interested - sorry, you have to C&P it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMMPYOLJZRc |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Well, I know IBRA is going to be testing now, at least at Nationals and State shows |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
 
Location: relocated to Texas | The use of these drugs on horses is one thing that makes my blood boil. So do the vets who hand it out like candy. Many of the "pros" use Winstrol as a common practice. The horses, who don't have a choice are turned into junkies. I knew a gal who had a nice little paint horse, made the same trip everytime around the barrels. One of the most consistent horses I have ever seen. Problem was, he couldn't run rodeo times. He would get outrun by about 5 to 7 tenths everytime. So, she goes to this vet who puts him on Equipoise (another steroid). Suddenly, he is outrunning everyone. A few months into the drug use, he started getting frequent injuries (because he was using himself harder than his body was naturally capable of) so they pumped him up with pain killers to keep him going. She won the Paint World on him a couple of times. I was there during that competiton and watched as he arched his neck out to get the needle. This horse was like a human who is a junkie. It was sickening. He lasted about 3 years before his body finally could not take it anymore and he was retired. I loved that little horse for his heart and try and hated to see what was done to him.
Edited by Hollywood's Fan 2014-05-03 9:56 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Personally I think the vets should loose their licence for prescribing performance enhancing drugs.
To stop it from happening you need to eliminate the supplier |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Should there be a penalty for competitors who are found using PEDs in their horses? |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:27 AM Should there be a penalty for competitors who are found using PEDs in their horses?
IBRA and WPRA have fines, suspensions, etc
are you talking legally? or within the realm of these associations? |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | It has been going on ever since I can remember and people used to be really out in the open about it. I feel bad for the horses that are used that way.
Speaking of horse-junkies, I had one that needed happy juice to be shod without a fight. He went from needle shy to begging for it because he loved being doped up. |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Doc, the track atheletes of the 80's were particularly fond of Winstrol V. Track athletes prefer that high anabolic vs high androgenic steriods. Less side effects, low water retention and water based so smaller needles. In the 80's, you could go to Mexico and get a 100 cc vial of Winstrol V from a vet for $10. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-03 10:29 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:27 AM Should there be a penalty for competitors who are found using PEDs in their horses? IBRA and WPRA have fines, suspensions, etc
are you talking legally? or within the realm of these associations?
I was thinking more along the lines of fines and suspensions.
How uniform is drug testing used? |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | TXBO - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM Doc, the track atheletes of the 80's were particularly fond of Winstrol V. Track athletes prefer that high anabolic vs high androgenic steriods. Less side effects, low water retention and water based so smaller needles. In the 80's, you could go to Mexico and get a 100 cc vial of Winstrol V from a vet for $10.
It's interesting that hGH was not a banned substance back then. I remember Mark McGuire pointed out how he thought it was OK to use it bacause it wasn't banned at the time.
The video talks about how the technology for drug testing has really advanced. The guy who ran that lab in Seoul went back and ran the urines that were saved a couple years later and almost all were positive for PEDs, even though they got away with a negative test at the time. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:54 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-05-03 10:29 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:27 AM Should there be a penalty for competitors who are found using PEDs in their horses? IBRA and WPRA have fines, suspensions, etc
are you talking legally? or within the realm of these associations?
How uniform is drug testing used?
Honestly, I'm not sure how they are doing it. I didn't go to Nationals last year, and I think that was the first time they did it. I'm not sure what protocol they are using, TBH. I don't run my horses on anything except maybe the occasional previcoxx if they are stalled (and they get that after they run, so it would be out of their system at test time anyway). As far as I know, Pentosan, Adequan, Legend are all permitted and I don't use anything else.
And as for WPRA, I think someone else can answer that.
IBRA is using the AQHA/USEF rules that can be found online. AQHA has tested for years too. I think these are all steps in the right direction.
I don't futurity, but I have heard some things that make me wish they tested at those types of events. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | If I remember right, IA joint injections containing steroids should be done 2 weeks prior to the show or they must be declared as well
Something like that. IDK, perhaps an AQHA person can clarify. but corticosteriods are not the same as the anabolics, obvi. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:58 AM
TXBO - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM Doc, the track atheletes of the 80's were particularly fond of Winstrol V. Track athletes prefer that high anabolic vs high androgenic steriods. Less side effects, low water retention and water based so smaller needles. In the 80's, you could go to Mexico and get a 100 cc vial of Winstrol V from a vet for $10.
It's interesting that hGH was not a banned substance back then. I remember Mark McGuire pointed out how he thought it was OK to use it bacause it wasn't banned at the time.
The video talks about how the technology for drug testing has really advanced. The guy who ran that lab in Seoul went back and ran the urines that were saved a couple years later and almost all were positive for PEDs, even though they got away with a negative test at the time.
Yea, hGH was so expensive back then that most amateur athletes couldn't afford it. Professional baseball players could.
You're right. It was prevalent throughout sports. |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-04 9:29 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:27 AM Should there be a penalty for competitors who are found using PEDs in their horses? IBRA and WPRA have fines, suspensions, etc
are you talking legally? or within the realm of these associations?
You know, I will believe this when I see it. They may put rules in place (good PR) but how strictly enforced are they? And, when & how is the testing done? The Paint World supposedly had drug testing too - my friend said that contestants had to pay for it in their entry. Sounds good, but I saw this particular horse get doped all 5 days he was at the competition. So, who do they test and when? I think they took urine, but wondered what the heck they did with it. And the vet told the owner before she went that he could give her some "good stuff" that wouldn't test.
Whoever said the vets should lose their license for this is right. I know of a couple who do so on a routine basis and the clientele is the who's who of barrel racing. |
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 Saint Stacey
| Posts like this always make me laugh and here's why...people will come out of the woodwork swearing that barrel racers don't do this. I have a good friend that worked for a well known vet practice. Many girls bought Winstral by the gallon pretty much. But everyone on BHW would claim these same girls are as pure as freshly fallen snow. I think that something that is worse and more scary than doping is the girls that are blocking injuries and just keep running. I know of a few that were great and then disappeared never to be heard of again that this happened to.Face it, some people have no conscience when it comes to a great horse that can draw checks. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Sometimes I wonder if half the people who barrel race just don't want to talk about it because, as the saying goes, the truth hurts. In fact, I wonder how many BBs are doping now? This is an important topic in barrel racing, but, in a way, I actually started the thread to see how quickly it would disappear. |
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 As Good As I Once Was
Posts: 1211
Location: frozen tundra of pa | When you go to a national show such as the Colonial Nationals and walk thru the barns and see all of the boxes marked "place used needles here" overflowing maybe its an easier question to ask Who isnt drugging the horse? |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | pabarrelnut - 2014-05-03 3:28 PM
When you go to a national show such as the Colonial Nationals and walk thru the barns and see all of the boxes marked "place used needles here" overflowing maybe its an easier question to ask Who isnt drugging the horse?
It's just vitamins and vaccines. I always give my horse a 6-way vaccine in the neck before a big barrel race. Loosens him up real nice. |
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As Good As I Once Was
Posts: 1211
Location: frozen tundra of pa | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 5:32 PM pabarrelnut - 2014-05-03 3:28 PM When you go to a national show such as the Colonial Nationals and walk thru the barns and see all of the boxes marked "place used needles here" overflowing maybe its an easier question to ask Who isnt drugging the horse? It's just vitamins and vaccines. I always give my horse a 6-way vaccine in the neck before a big barrel race. Loosens him up real nice.
Doc Im glad you think that but i have been barrel racing for over 40 years and it was going on in the 70's this isnt anything new. People just find new stuff to use. I know for a fact that one of the top NBHA people has a little "suitcase" if something is wrong with your horse he's the man to find. Im not saying its right or that i believe in it I dont but people will do whatever it takes to win! |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | pabarrelnut - 2014-05-04 2:41 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 5:32 PM pabarrelnut - 2014-05-03 3:28 PM When you go to a national show such as the Colonial Nationals and walk thru the barns and see all of the boxes marked "place used needles here" overflowing maybe its an easier question to ask Who isnt drugging the horse? It's just vitamins and vaccines. I always give my horse a 6-way vaccine in the neck before a big barrel race. Loosens him up real nice.
Edited by Hollywood's Fan 2014-05-03 3:55 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Most of it is just herbs and supplements. There's no cheating in barrel racing.
On a serious note, if you watch that video, the underlying theme back then was "if you don't do it, you won't win....everyone was doing it and everyone knew"
In fact, it still goes on today, I bet. The technology in drug detection has been followed in parallel by technology in avoiding detection. |
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Saint Stacey
| HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 2:32 PM
pabarrelnut - 2014-05-03 3:28 PM
When you go to a national show such as the Colonial Nationals and walk thru the barns and see all of the boxes marked "place used needles here" overflowing maybe its an easier question to ask Who isnt drugging the horse?
It's just vitamins and vaccines. I always give my horse a 6-way vaccine in the neck before a big barrel race. Loosens him up real nice.
Lasix. All those needles are for lasix and banimine. How dare people assume anything else. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 3:32 PM pabarrelnut - 2014-05-03 3:28 PM When you go to a national show such as the Colonial Nationals and walk thru the barns and see all of the boxes marked "place used needles here" overflowing maybe its an easier question to ask Who isnt drugging the horse? It's just vitamins and vaccines. I always give my horse a 6-way vaccine in the neck before a big barrel race. Loosens him up real nice.
I have given Lasix, banamine, bute, dex, and Adequan on the road. There are people giving stuff they really shouldn't for sure, but a needle does not automatically equal bad. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| This has been going on for years, at the track, at aqha, paints, ibra, and anywhere else. When they test they the guys willing to,spend the money there are things in peoples black boxes. How qbout blood doping i heard they have done this to horses. Clembuterol, using epi, all types of steroids. A lot of different pain killers, ritalin and other uppers. This a list that i do know and some of this is part of a coctail type stuff.. All those people that have great runs dont always have a horse that is better than yours, they just use stuff on there horse beside a joint suppliment. That is why some of those wonder horse will not live but so long. The trainers do it cause the owners what that check and the end game great horse so they can sell. You ever see a big name horse and some really nice people will buy it and for then it will be. 5 or. 7 off a winner. People then think those people cant ride it is not that. I hqve been around since the 80's. A vet told me drug testing will only discourage the honest type people, as like the atheletes of the 80's will find a way. Like thqt spice stuff is is very chemically simular to some illegal drugs, change one molecule and put it on poporri equals spice. The people thwt want that edge will always do some thing. I know people that used to buy a horse that was a worker and a low 2-d horse they would get it home and shoot is up with winstrol, in about 4-6 weeks you have another gear take it up north where people have money they would make about a 7500.00 profit. |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| SKM - 2014-05-03 4:01 PM Posts like this always make me laugh and here's why...people will come out of the woodwork swearing that barrel racers don't do this. I have a good friend that worked for a well known vet practice. Many girls bought Winstral by the gallon pretty much. But everyone on BHW would claim these same girls are as pure as freshly fallen snow. I think that something that is worse and more scary than doping is the girls that are blocking injuries and just keep running. I know of a few that were great and then disappeared never to be heard of again that this happened to.Face it, some people have no conscience when it comes to a great horse that can draw checks.
There's also this stigma that certain people try to push: That those who are against those drugs are upset because they're not winning, are jealous, or it's "unfair".
"Why is it unfair? You can do it too!" YEP, it's been said! On this forum no less!!!
That's annoying (not to mention SCARY) as heck and a great from the actual, real problem.
I don't care if I knock every time, never place, or never win anything. I don't care. I don't care who's winning. I DON'T CARE.
What I care about is the horse. I care about our sport. We already have a **** poor reputation among other sports in the way we treat our horses. Do we really want to sit idly by and let that reputation continue to be tarnished by these idiots? And yes, I said IDIOTS. Do we want other entities (gov, people who know nothing about horses) to clean up for us?
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Injecting Winstrol the day of a race won't give you any advantage. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | TXBO - 2014-05-03 6:20 PM Injecting Winstrol the day of a race won't give you any advantage.
It will if you run often enough. LOL |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-05-03 7:16 PM TXBO - 2014-05-03 6:20 PM Injecting Winstrol the day of a race won't give you any advantage. It will if you run often enough. LOL
True but you'd have to be a real dumbazz to do it at a show. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Both are amazing at burning a horse up. Shine brightly while you can... |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | Drug testing:
Level 3 test is for most of the drugs juridictions are looking for. Level 3 includes all drugs in Levels 1 and 2. That cost about $250.
Then there are spot check tests that cost about $35-50 per drug they are looking for.
Steroid tests are not in the 3 levels of testing. It cost about $150.
So if a jurisdiction wants to be thorough they would need to spend at least $400 per test.
If a jurisdiction is testing levels 1, 2 or 3, steroids would never be detected.
Edited by Douglas J Gordon 2014-05-04 8:30 AM
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BHW's Lance Armstrong
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | OBTW Equipoise and Winstrol will work the same for muscle, strength and speed. Winstrol just won't have as an agressive side effects as Equipoise. Happy injecting! |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I forgot to hit quote, but this is for hollywood
I know the testing right now is kind of a joke, depending on the event... but it gives me hope that the industry will take more steps towards enforcing it in the future.
The thing that sucks though is the cost.... it is not cheap and I'm not suprised by the figures posted by DJG.... But for big events, like nationals or worlds, I do hope they do really test the horses.
I haven't been to big shows enough and I don't run WPRA, so I'm not sure what is actually being done and what isn't right now. |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-05 7:51 AM I forgot to hit quote, but this is for hollywood
I know the testing right now is kind of a joke, depending on the event... but it gives me hope that the industry will take more steps towards enforcing it in the future.
The thing that sucks though is the cost.... it is not cheap and I'm not suprised by the figures posted by DJG.... But for big events, like nationals or worlds, I do hope they do really test the horses.
I haven't been to big shows enough and I don't run WPRA, so I'm not sure what is actually being done and what isn't right now.
I would have felt hopeful too except for what I saw with this horse at the Paint World. Honestly, I was hoping they would test him and that owner and the vet would receive some disciplinary action. It didn't happen. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-05-04 9:36 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-05-05 7:51 AM I forgot to hit quote, but this is for hollywood
I know the testing right now is kind of a joke, depending on the event... but it gives me hope that the industry will take more steps towards enforcing it in the future.
The thing that sucks though is the cost.... it is not cheap and I'm not suprised by the figures posted by DJG.... But for big events, like nationals or worlds, I do hope they do really test the horses.
I haven't been to big shows enough and I don't run WPRA, so I'm not sure what is actually being done and what isn't right now. I would have felt hopeful too except for what I saw with this horse at the Paint World. Honestly, I was hoping they would test him and that owner and the vet would receive some disciplinary action. It didn't happen.
Ugh, that makes me sad. :( |
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"Winstrol or Equipoise.....which works better?"