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Veteran
Posts: 150
 
Location: Okla | Now I know there are some people that will disagree with this and I will be the first to agree color has no basis to horses preformance abilities--but for some unknown reason to me and I sincerely hope I learn the why to this before I die--why do grays,palominos,bays and sorrels do better in the rodeo events than paints,pintos ect? We all know most paints are just colored quarter horses::but...... somebody please clue me in to this, it's been bugging me for years and I see it happen over and over. Thank you |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
 
| old timey barrel rac - 2014-05-15 8:06 PM
Now I know there are some people that will disagree with this and I will be the first to agree color has no basis to horses preformance abilities--but for some unknown reason to me and I sincerely hope I learn the why to this before I die--why do grays,palominos,bays and sorrels do better in the rodeo events than paints,pintos ect? We all know most paints are just colored quarter horses::but...... somebody please clue me in to this, it's been bugging me for years and I see it happen over and over. Thank you
I have wondered the same thing. LOL |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | I would generally agree...I know of one paint that is an exception and it ran a 16.994 on a standard pattern. Do think it is possible that they run faster times because there are more sorrels, bays, palominos, and greys out there doing it? Please tell me it will be true for my little chestnut mare!  |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I think there just aren't a lot out there doing it. There's a girl I know that runs NBHA and only runs paints and she is ALWAYS at the top of the 1D if not winning. |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | How many paints do you see at your local barrel race? Most of the barrel races I've been to, those painted ponies are making the others eat dust. At the NFR two red and white were in the top doing some team roping and calf roping. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Because look at the Paints say 40 years ago. They were thick, coby heavy boned and were slow footed and traveled like they were peddling a bicycle. All Paints descend from these horses. Sure breeding has improved immensely and so have the horses. BUT, you cant erase the where's and who's they came from. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Often paints are bred for color....not strictly performance. JMO, and I know a lot of people love them.... they aren't as advanced as a breed as Quarter Horses. |
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 Toy Story Fanatic
Posts: 4148
Location: Oregon | MS2011 - 2014-05-15 7:56 PM Often paints are bred for color....not strictly performance. JMO, and I know a lot of people love them.... they aren't as advanced as a breed as Quarter Horses.
Uh Paints are Quarter Horse or Thoroughbred. No other breed is acceptable. Judys Lineage is Paint.... Judys Lineage surpasses $4 million in offspring earnings
FORT WORTH, TEXAS—Judys Lineage has long been a sought after sire for Paint race and barrel horses, but he has now accomplished something no other sire in Paint racing history has accomplished surpassing the $4 million dollar mark in offspring earnings. Earlier this year, he surpassed $3 million offspring earnings along with another leading sire Texas Hero. But, when I Kick won the richest Paint race in history the G1 Graham Paint Futurity in May 2009 and then Cutrock won the RG1 Pot O’Gold on October 17 it pushed Judys Lineage to the very top of the lifetime leading sire’s list with a total of $4,041,229.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| More money and emphasis has been put into quarter horse, racing and the incentive programs, therefore more money and emphasis has been put into breeding of quarter horses.
There is a substantially more quarter horse to pain ratio, the numbers are in the quarter horses favor to do better. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1062
Location: Probably On the Road to the Next Barrel Race! | ThreeCorners - 2014-05-15 9:55 PM Because look at the Paints say 40 years ago. They were thick, coby heavy boned and were slow footed and traveled like they were peddling a bicycle. All Paints descend from these horses. Sure breeding has improved immensely and so have the horses. BUT, you cant erase the where's and who's they came from.
that last statement is just pure ignorance...Paints ARE being bred to some of the finest Thoroughbred a QH's. and some of the offspring are flat kick-ass in barrels, especially down here in Texas. They are breeding for color AND performance. You just don't see a lot because they are a minority in sheer numbers, compared to QH's, but trust me..they are coming... |
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 Winner winner chicken dinner
Posts: 2047
Location: California | Our local girl who cleans house runs a paint...of course he is a solid paint so you would never know! |
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| The paint horse association .. APHA .. dotes on western pleasure and halter horses because those owners play golf and invited them to play at their country clubs ... The Paint Journal is dedicated to these two classes of horses.
The Racing and Speed Event horses get an internet magazine that is so far behind the horses have died before it is published ...
You could say Affirmative Action is big time at APHA ... all they can think of is ... only a colored horse can compete in this or this or that or that ... they shove the step children that are solid off into a corner and make them play by themselves instead of competing in the colored paint classes. By APHA records every year there are 37% solid bred paints born with no where to go play ...
ANOTHER ...New color rule that went in affect Jan 2013 ....
D. Registration Requirements for Stakes Race
To establish eligibility to participate in stakes races,
all APHA registered horses foaled on or after January
1, 2013, must meet the following requirements:
1. APHA Regular Registry Paint Horses must have
at least one APHA Regular Registry Paint Horse in
the first generation.
2. APHA Solid Paint-Bred Horses must have at
least one APHA Regular Registry Paint Horse in the
first generation AND must have at least one APHA
Regular Registry Paint Horse in the second generation.
ALSO HIDDEN IN THE RULE CHANGE: It is important to note
those who breed their cropout Regular Registry
Paint horse to a Quarter Horse or Thoroughbred
will be able to race their resulting foal in stakes races
only if the resulting foal qualifies for registration
in the Regular Registry.
This color rule pertains to all speed, racing and arena eventing classes .... now .. tell me who in their right minds would breed for paints when the association is downing 37% or more of their foal crop each year!!
LINK: RULE CHANGE ... read how happy they are ... it sounds like democrats telling everyone how great Obamacare is ... READ THE ENTIRE THING ....>>>
http://www.paintracing.com/pdfs/PHRFromTheChairman.pdf
APHA blames the paint horse breeders for not having more colored horses running at the track or arena events. BUT NOT ONE WORD on them allowing crop out quarter horses with one 2 inch spot to be regular registered paints and create more solid colored foals .. NEITHER DID YOU READ anything about kicking the crop outs out of APHA!!
In their chart of 20 stallions there is only one Overo and 3 Tobiano stallions ... all the rest are AQHA or crop-outs listed as Overo's (O) by their names ...
The fix is simple .. kick out the crop out quarter horses. Then change all the rules that any horse registered as APHA with or without color all compete in the same classes//events for the same monies and recognition.. Only one registered paint ....solid or colored... is needed for a foal registration or to enter any event listed in the APHA RULE BOOK ....
and if you want to really get aggressive ... bar breeding to qh or TB's for the next 20 years ... because that is how long it has taken the poor leadership (non horse owners) at APHA to wreck what was once a great and exciting association ....
I have been a life time member with both AQHA and APHA for over 30 years and I am very proud to say ... I do not own any APHA horses due to the constant rule changes and discrimination against solid bred paints.
These negative rule changes against paint horses by the association has brought the price of paints down lower than they have ever been ... take a look at the prices at Heritage Place and weep!! and these are the best bred paints available!!!
A paint breeder cannot continue the yearly losses on his solid colored paints when attacked by the association that is supposed to be promoting paints!!
Pull up the APHA RULE BOOK and read the nonsense that has been created by idiots that do not own any paint horses!!
Then they wonder why their paint shows and even the world shows only have 3-4 entries in each class ... what do they do ... increase the entry fees .... sound familiar and similar to the tax increases coming out of Washington DC???
What is a shame .. just like this rule change ... APHA is proud of downing the paint horse every chance they get ... we see the same bragging against tax payers on TV all the time ...
Be sure and read the entire link and pay attention to what is said on homozygous paints ... which is true...
http://www.paintracing.com/pdfs/PHRFromTheChairman.pdf
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-05-16 12:27 AM
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| Cause there aren't as many Paints entered.  |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | I've seen a lot of paints in my lifetime......very few that I'd be proud to own.
There I said it.  |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | ThreeCorners - 2014-05-15 9:55 PM Because look at the Paints say 40 years ago. They were thick, coby heavy boned and were slow footed and traveled like they were peddling a bicycle. All Paints descend from these horses. Sure breeding has improved immensely and so have the horses. BUT, you cant erase the where's and who's they came from.
Weren't the first paints just accidents that came out colored from solid horses? Here is something else to think about.. how many of those solid horses running and winning are actually Paints. The horse in my avitar is SOLID black.. only white on him is his one dot (star) on his head and he is registered PAINT. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-15 10:42 PM More money and emphasis has been put into quarter horse, racing and the incentive programs, therefore more money and emphasis has been put into breeding of quarter horses. There is a substantially more quarter horse to pain ratio, the numbers are in the quarter horses favor to do better.
agree |
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 Expert
Posts: 2161
Location: NW. Florida | A lot of the bays, sorrels, grays are possibly registered paints. Not all paints are painted. |
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 Ima Fickle Fan
Posts: 3547
Location: Texas | Two reasons - Numbers game. I would guess that 90% of horses competing are Quarter Horse, so the odds aren't in favor of another breed winning.
Second - A lot of competitive Paint Horses are solid, so you never know they are a Paint. So for an obvious Paint to win, it has to beat out a LOT of solid horses to do it. |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | You would be surprised how many are actually out there and winning since many are solid colored. I have a nice solid one that is the most beautifully built mare. I would take a whole herd built just like her! She is a powerhouse! She was always first out of the gates when she raced. She is just starting the pattern but I am super excited for her because she is a beast! When working her on the ground she is like a cutting horse....when you ask her to switch directions she gets super super low, pins her ears and turns back quick! I love that attitude! |
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 Roan Wonder
Location: SW MO | 2 reasons maybe 75% of the horses are sorrel or bay so the odds for them is just increased in number. Second is probably bloodlines. The most popular running bloodlines tend to throw mostly Sorrels & bays, today there are a lot of yellow horses because of the influnces of some popular bloodlines such as Sun Frost |
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| To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common.
Edited by Rodeodreamqueen 2014-05-16 9:25 AM
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | What panties??? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
| LRQHS - 2014-05-16 9:26 AM
What panties???
Well played!!!!  |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM
To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common.
Paint actually is a breed AMERICAN PAINT HORSE ASSOCIATION, not all paint horses have the paint coloured markings. |
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| Yes I am aware of the registry. That's why I specified that the dam of one of the better paint horses I run against isn't just APHA registered but also has white patches. |
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| I am also an APHA member. My mom and I showed paint halter horses. She still does so I am certainly not trying to slam the registry. |
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Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-16 9:33 AM Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common. Paint actually is a breed AMERICAN PAINT HORSE ASSOCIATION, not all paint horses have the paint coloured markings.
So are Palaminos and Pintos a breed then?? Palomino Horse Association, Pinto Horse Association of America Inc. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| cheryl makofka - 2014-05-16 9:33 AM
Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM
To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common.
Paint actually is a breed AMERICAN PAINT HORSE ASSOCIATION, not all paint horses have the paint coloured markings.
Of course it's a breed with a registry. But that doesn't change the validity if what rodeodreamqueen said. Most paints you see winning are out of (registered) paint mares and by proven QH studs. They are registerable as paints (color or not). ??? I don't see your point. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Maybe because the bigger trainers are sticking with taking horses with proven pedigrees (usually QH's, because that's what most people are out there proving and running)
Unless they are a paint circuit person, how many of the folks who run the big shows/futurities/rodeos/races/whatever seek out paints as prospects?
Just me thinking out loud |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-05-16 9:51 AM
cheryl makofka - 2014-05-16 9:33 AM Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common. Paint actually is a breed AMERICAN PAINT HORSE ASSOCIATION, not all paint horses have the paint coloured markings.
No, they are colors. While Pintos and Paints may outwardly appear the same, genetically they would be different. The Pinto association is for crop outs from any breed.
People often only go by what a horse LOOKS LIKE. There's two sides to the genetic coin: phenotype and genotype. We only see the phenotype, but BREED is determined by the genotype. Of course there are phenotype cropouts in the Paint breed that come out solid, just like there are splashy cropouts in other breeds. Paint is a breed, not a color. If you breed two Paints, you're not going to end up with an Arabian, or a Clydesdale, or a Morgan - you're going to have a Paint, no matter what color it is. Contrary, if you breed two palominos - you will get a breed cross of whatever the two horses were, and it might be a palomino, or it might not. Other than color, there is no standard set of physical characteristics that can be repeatedly reproduced.
Cheryl's original comment was in response to RodeoDreamQueen's statement that Paint is only a color and not a breed. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common.
If you look at it regionally, you can find colored sires who were successful in the rodeo arena that sired babies who were also successful. Apocalypse comes to mind--he stood in NW Arkansas. I ran against him, rode some of his babies, and my current barrel horse is a maternal grandson. Several of the current hot bloodlines were successful regionally long before they became known on the national stage. And there are others who are still only known in their respective regions, although there are lots of them winning. It's partly promotion and partly luck with who gets their hands on the babies. |
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Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | svincent - 2014-05-16 10:40 AM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-05-16 9:51 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-16 9:33 AM Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common. Paint actually is a breed AMERICAN PAINT HORSE ASSOCIATION, not all paint horses have the paint coloured markings. No, they are colors. While Pintos and Paints may outwardly appear the same, genetically they would be different. The Pinto association is for crop outs from any breed. People often only go by what a horse LOOKS LIKE. There's two sides to the genetic coin: phenotype and genotype. We only see the phenotype, but BREED is determined by the genotype. Of course there are phenotype cropouts in the Paint breed that come out solid, just like there are splashy cropouts in other breeds. Paint is a breed, not a color. If you breed two Paints, you're not going to end up with an Arabian, or a Clydesdale, or a Morgan - you're going to have a Paint, no matter what color it is. Contrary, if you breed two palominos - you will get a breed cross of whatever the two horses were, and it might be a palomino, or it might not. Other than color, there is no standard set of physical characteristics that can be repeatedly reproduced. Cheryl's original comment was in response to RodeoDreamQueen's statement that Paint is only a color and not a breed.
I am aware, was just being a bit facetious this morning. Based on her statement it appeared she justified Paints being a breed soley because they have an association. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-05-16 10:43 AM
svincent - 2014-05-16 10:40 AM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-05-16 9:51 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-16 9:33 AM Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common. Paint actually is a breed AMERICAN PAINT HORSE ASSOCIATION, not all paint horses have the paint coloured markings. No, they are colors. While Pintos and Paints may outwardly appear the same, genetically they would be different. The Pinto association is for crop outs from any breed. People often only go by what a horse LOOKS LIKE. There's two sides to the genetic coin: phenotype and genotype. We only see the phenotype, but BREED is determined by the genotype. Of course there are phenotype cropouts in the Paint breed that come out solid, just like there are splashy cropouts in other breeds. Paint is a breed, not a color. If you breed two Paints, you're not going to end up with an Arabian, or a Clydesdale, or a Morgan - you're going to have a Paint, no matter what color it is. Contrary, if you breed two palominos - you will get a breed cross of whatever the two horses were, and it might be a palomino, or it might not. Other than color, there is no standard set of physical characteristics that can be repeatedly reproduced. Cheryl's original comment was in response to RodeoDreamQueen's statement that Paint is only a color and not a breed.
Oh you stinker....
This "debate" has come up before about color vs breed in relation to the Paint. Lol I literally face-palmed when it got brought up again. |
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Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | svincent - 2014-05-16 10:58 AM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-05-16 10:43 AM svincent - 2014-05-16 10:40 AM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-05-16 9:51 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-16 9:33 AM Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common. Paint actually is a breed AMERICAN PAINT HORSE ASSOCIATION, not all paint horses have the paint coloured markings. No, they are colors. While Pintos and Paints may outwardly appear the same, genetically they would be different. The Pinto association is for crop outs from any breed. People often only go by what a horse LOOKS LIKE. There's two sides to the genetic coin: phenotype and genotype. We only see the phenotype, but BREED is determined by the genotype. Of course there are phenotype cropouts in the Paint breed that come out solid, just like there are splashy cropouts in other breeds. Paint is a breed, not a color. If you breed two Paints, you're not going to end up with an Arabian, or a Clydesdale, or a Morgan - you're going to have a Paint, no matter what color it is. Contrary, if you breed two palominos - you will get a breed cross of whatever the two horses were, and it might be a palomino, or it might not. Other than color, there is no standard set of physical characteristics that can be repeatedly reproduced. Cheryl's original comment was in response to RodeoDreamQueen's statement that Paint is only a color and not a breed. Oh you stinker.... This "debate" has come up before about color vs breed in relation to the Paint. Lol I literally face-palmed when it got brought up again.
I know, me too! There are so many times I read things and have wonderful (I think so anyway) input, but refuse to comment... once I comment I get sucked into the virtual whirlpool circling the drain... and usually the ones asking, there is no reasoning with.  |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Three 4 Luck - 2014-05-16 10:41 AM Rodeodreamqueen - 2014-05-16 9:23 AM To make a paint foal one parent or both have to carry the gene that gives the extra white patches that make Overo, Tovero, Tobiano (I'm sure there are more pattern colors but I can't name them.) How many APHA sires are there that have done well in the rodeo world and sired competive paint colts? None that I can think of. In our industry we see that Frenchmans Guy horses typically produce palominos and buckskins. Perks horses typically produce black and dark bays. Jet deck and streaking sixes usually produce sorrels and chestnuts. The colors we see running just depend on the bloodlines. I don't see many paints run in the places I run but the ones I do see have an APHA dam (with white patches) and a well known barrel horse sire (with a solid coat). I don't think that just because the horse is a paint it won't be able to run well, because paint is simply a color not a breed. I've seen some painted horses do very well. And remember that palominos use to be few and far between in the barrel pen. But now they are very common. If you look at it regionally, you can find colored sires who were successful in the rodeo arena that sired babies who were also successful. Apocalypse comes to mind--he stood in NW Arkansas. I ran against him, rode some of his babies, and my current barrel horse is a maternal grandson. Several of the current hot bloodlines were successful regionally long before they became known on the national stage. And there are others who are still only known in their respective regions, although there are lots of them winning. It's partly promotion and partly luck with who gets their hands on the babies.
Tiny Who Too is another one. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | LRQHS - 2014-05-16 9:26 AM What panties???
I knew it  |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | Pedigree-wise, many of the top producing bloodlines are QH. A lot of people would rather have a registered AQHA so they breed to another Quarter Horse instead of crossing that top bloodline with a Paint. Not always, I've seen Paints with nice QH or TB lines. Also there are probably a lot more solid-breds out there winning than people realize. |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | They are out there. Sidney Forrest a 2 AWESOME paint on her trailer right now. She won Sherry-Lynns a couple years ago on one and she has Sierra Tallchief's Chico (Leos King of Spades) with her too.
Google him and see how many big races he has won.
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 Regular
Posts: 73
| I ran a paint mare for 3 years and she did very well. She is by World Speed and out of a paint mare who was by FL Fancy Bug a Paint World Champion Cutting horse and he was also a Cutting horse of the year. I never thought twice about buying her because she worked. I made MSRA Finals on her all 3 years. She is now a broodmare and has had 2 solid babies. A palomino colt by PC Frenchmans Hayday and this year had a solid sorrel colt by Firewater Finale. Both horses will end up running in the futurities. They are athletic and actually probably my 2 best looking colts out of all my broodmares.
Edited by hilaryvg 2014-05-16 2:38 PM
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I had a very nice gelding who was a solid sorrel…paint. he was a 1D winner, put $$ on my WPRA permit. And on top of that, he was halter/pleasure paint bred on the top and running paint on the bottom.
Shelbie Parrish just won the Bridgeport, TX PRCA rodeo on a bay tobiano I think she calls Biscuit.
I think in 2014, they are just as capable and just as good. They aren't as popular of a breed, and I think it's easier to remember a loud colored paint horse than it is a regular sorrel.
Also, I will be the first to admit.. I don't actively look for paint horses to buy and ride. Especially colored ones. I just love quarter horses, and the gelding I bought that I mentioned earlier was already exhibitioning .5 off the stakes at races so we knew he was going to be good. I wonder if there aren't other people out there like me that simply don't look for paints. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| I don't look for paints. But I just bought one. This is my first ever APHA ownership experience, she looks like a QH, acts like a QH, and is bred (75%) like a QH. But with paint markings. She's halter/race/show bred and I have her at the breeder now to a proven barrel stallion. I'm excited for the baby and positive he/she will be a good one - no matter the color. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | I ride two solid blacks, one a paint and the other a pinto. A guy asked me what the breeding was on my black horse, and he said, "and don't tell me he's a blankety blank paint." I said, "he's not, he's a pinto! " Both good horses, in my own biased opinion! |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Lee Ann Rust's Ss Streakers R Us breaks all the stereotypes and arguments that are trying to be made on here.
If Paints aren't your thing, good for you. But why knock the breed?
Has anyone looked at statistics? If i'm reading correctly: Total number of living AQHA horses in 2013 was over 2 million (http://www.aqha.com/About/Content-Pages/About-the-Association/AQHA-Annual-Report.aspx ). Total number of APHA horses ever registered is barely over 1 million (http://www.apha.com/association/pressroom/releases/2014/04/23/apha-2013-annual-report-details-association's-accomplishments ). And, 37% of 2013 registered foals were solid.
It just doesn't make sense to say they are inferior because you don't see as many colored paints as regular bays, sorrels, etc. winning.
Edited by just4fun 2014-05-18 3:52 PM
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BHW's Simon Cowell
Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | A paint has won the average at the NFR in the barrel racing. He could outrun anyone and he was all paint. T Bar and Kim West. |
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 Looking For Fun!
Posts: 4067
Location: Feeding those that need me | Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but to say that paints are simply not as good as Quarter Horses is just ignorance.
As another poster said, there is a HUGE difference in the number of APHA horses born every year compared to their AQHA counterparts.
I think another large problem is that people get hung up on a paints color so they focus on that instead of quality and produce "sub-par" foals. I feel like our paints are bred just as well, if not better, than most AQHA programs, and by breeding them, we are hoping to change the outlook of paints in the barrel industry.
The PBRIP program that was launched last year has been a huge stepping stone for APHA horses and owners and we are getting a lot more interest in our stock than ever before. It is very exciting.
Also, as another poster stated, there are paints out there winning. You just have to look for them because most have not had the number of chances and opportunities that their AQHA counterparts have had. T Bar is an excellent example. As is ShesaRareTreasure that Haley thorne won ALOT of money on. Also anyone ever heard of a gelding named Classy French Paint? Yep, you guessed it. APHA registered. He's a Jr World Champion and has won over 100k+.
Dont tell me paints cant run. I know better. |
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Now don't get your panties in a wad-but....