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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
  
| So my friend just bought one a month or so ago, I have had my mare on it once a day for almost 2 weeks now...at the settings it says for joint/arthritis pain. I went to a barrel race last weekend and I didn't tell a difference in her at all. I do think her hocks need to be done, going in next week to the vet for a lameness check. I thought the theraplate had immediate results? Anyone have a story good or bad to tell? I don't want to keep hauling over there if it's not going to help her...just curious to what others have to say. Thanks. | |
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Mrs. Txdad
Posts: 14084
 
Location: the fantasy txdad married | They have a different brand (Equi-Vibe) at the Hydro barn where I aqua-tread my horses.
I have put my "cripple" on it after he treads twice a week for 3 weeks. No clue what setting.
Someone is running him this weekend and I'm anxious to see how he does.
I can tell you he feels like a million bucks. He has always been really good on a lead but, he turned into Zenyatta going back to the trailer after his very first vibe and every time after. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| I wonder what the difference is in the Equi Vibe and Theraplate? Hmmm, thanks for the info...anyone else??  | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | I have a Theraplate. I bought it for a horse that has a history of navicular (caudal heel) pain, long toe, under run heels, not landing heel first, etc... I was putting him on it once per day for about three months and was not seeing much results. Two weeks ago I started doing it twice per day and I now can tell a difference. He is moving out better, landing heel first, etc. Personally... I don't think once per day is enough. I think you have to be doing it two or maybe even three times per day to really see an improvement. But I have no experience with it on hocks. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 443
Location: Southern IL somewhere between KY and MO | I tried it with my guy before a big race and I felt a big difference. I plan on getting one for my barn. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| TBone - 2014-05-23 10:17 AM
I have a Theraplate. I bought it for a horse that has a history of navicular (caudal heel) pain, long toe, under run heels, not landing heel first, etc... I was putting him on it once per day for about three months and was not seeing much results. Two weeks ago I started doing it twice per day and I now can tell a difference. He is moving out better, landing heel first, etc. Personally... I don't think once per day is enough. I think you have to be doing it two or maybe even three times per day to really see an improvement. But I have no experience with it on hocks.
Glad that you are seeing a difference . One time a day is not enough if you are treating a issue. I think in the acute stage you need to use it 2 to three times a day. Then 2 times a day and gradually decrease to 1 time a day. For chronic issues 1 time a day may be sufficient. | |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | This is strictly my personal opinion... I don't like them. We do all kinds of stuff to our horses to help their joints and I think that the Theraplate undoes a lot of it. Vibration is not good for joints. That is why they make anti-vibration gloves, etc for people. Carpal tunnel syndrome can be a result of vibration. I know that I sold a horse not long ago that had never been injected, and never needed them. The people who bought her have a Theraplate... She just had her hocks, stifles, and whirlbones injected. Coincidence, maybe, but I wouldn't take the chance myself.
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Regular
Posts: 75
| grinandbareit - 2014-05-23 1:06 PM
This is strictly my personal opinion... I don't like them. We do all kinds of stuff to our horses to help their joints and I think that the Theraplate undoes a lot of it. Vibration is not good for joints. That is why they make anti-vibration gloves, etc for people. Carpal tunnel syndrome can be a result of vibration. I know that I sold a horse not long ago that had never been injected, and never needed them. The people who bought her have a Theraplate... She just had her hocks, stifles, and whirlbones injected. Coincidence, maybe, but I wouldn't take the chance myself.
I don't agree either with them either. Different vibe plates used to be a big fad in the rehabilitation and physical therapy industry for people but have pretty much been phased out because they can do as much harm as good. My cousin owns her own rehabilitation clinic and has a back room full of diff vibrations plates for people she'd like to get rid of since they are no longer recommended to use them. | |
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Mrs. Txdad
Posts: 14084
Location: the fantasy txdad married | WalknFaith - 2014-05-23 1:03 PM grinandbareit - 2014-05-23 1:06 PM This is strictly my personal opinion... I don't like them. We do all kinds of stuff to our horses to help their joints and I think that the Theraplate undoes a lot of it. Vibration is not good for joints. That is why they make anti-vibration gloves, etc for people. Carpal tunnel syndrome can be a result of vibration. I know that I sold a horse not long ago that had never been injected, and never needed them. The people who bought her have a Theraplate... She just had her hocks, stifles, and whirlbones injected. Coincidence, maybe, but I wouldn't take the chance myself. I don't agree either with them either. Different vibe plates used to be a big fad in the rehabilitation and physical therapy industry for people but have pretty much been phased out because they can do as much harm as good. My cousin owns her own rehabilitation clinic and has a back room full of diff vibrations plates for people she'd like to get rid of since they are no longer recommended to use them.
I am ever the skeptic on all the fad stuff. I was not interested in using the vibe at all but, thought, what the heck.
Now, being the skeptic, maybe the unruly, fired up walk back to the trailer was my horses' way of saying he was not happy about those vibe treatments....?? Just something to think about. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| It speeds up circulation which speeds healing. Believe me if the Theraplate hurt horses, i wouldn't be using it. And I know Mary wouldn't use it on Latte. | |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | readytorodeo - 2014-05-23 2:54 PM
It speeds up circulation which speeds healing. Believe me if the Theraplate hurt horses, i wouldn't be using it. And I know Mary wouldn't use it on Latte.
Lol… I can certainly appreciate your position… and no offense to Mary, or to you, but I can assure you Mary is no expert on what long term affects the Theraplate could be having on Latte's joints. Just because someone "famous" is doing it, doesn't make it good. Ask Lance Armstrong and his crew. ;)
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| WalknFaith - 2014-05-23 1:03 PM grinandbareit - 2014-05-23 1:06 PM This is strictly my personal opinion... I don't like them. We do all kinds of stuff to our horses to help their joints and I think that the Theraplate undoes a lot of it. Vibration is not good for joints. That is why they make anti-vibration gloves, etc for people. Carpal tunnel syndrome can be a result of vibration. I know that I sold a horse not long ago that had never been injected, and never needed them. The people who bought her have a Theraplate... She just had her hocks, stifles, and whirlbones injected. Coincidence, maybe, but I wouldn't take the chance myself. I don't agree either with them either. Different vibe plates used to be a big fad in the rehabilitation and physical therapy industry for people but have pretty much been phased out because they can do as much harm as good. My cousin owns her own rehabilitation clinic and has a back room full of diff vibrations plates for people she'd like to get rid of since they are no longer recommended to use them.
eta: you should always be wary of anyone who claims that their equipment can benefit all conditions. I've seen this a lot in those who push the vibration plates-
and the Aculife Patches, and the magnetic wraps, and the Acuscope machines, and the lasers - etc. etc. etc. It's true that I use and sell a lot of different therapy products- but I honestly inform potential buyers the limitations of them all. If someone tells you they have a device that helps with every condition imaginable- run!
Edited by trickster j 2014-05-23 5:28 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| grinandbareit - 2014-05-23 4:20 PM
readytorodeo - 2014-05-23 2:54 PM
It speeds up circulation which speeds healing. Believe me if the Theraplate hurt horses, i wouldn't be using it. And I know Mary wouldn't use it on Latte.
Lol… I can certainly appreciate your position… and no offense to Mary, or to you, but I can assure you Mary is no expert on what long term affects the Theraplate could be having on Latte's joints. Just because someone "famous" is doing it, doesn't make it good. Ask Lance Armstrong and his crew. ; )
I never say that the Theraplate cures all. And I'm not using it because Mary does. In fact I owned mine before she got hers. I
think it does help. But I also use the Laser, have a Accuscope and massager. And have recently bought Ice Vibe Boots. Every horse is different. I have asked my vet. and they think that the Theraplate works. I think it is really helpful with feet issues. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I want to see some medical evidence what it is doing. If someone that winds puts milk on itmlegs wil increase circulation and they win. Everyone will be doing the same thing. I need scientific evidence. My mind is still out on maginets. I had a friend lone me one for my neck. I did not see,any difference and i wore that thing for 3 days.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| Thanks soo much for these replies...like I said originally, my horse has been on it probably 10-12 times so far. This weekend will be a small test, I want to see if she's feeling better in her runs...then it's off to the vet next week probably hocks. I'm hoping my vet can explain to me why or why not the vibration is good for a horses and soreness...I will admit, after having her on that plate and feeling her legs vibrate, it makes ya wonder if it's doing more harm than good therapy?
I agree to the other post, I wish someone like a vet would come on here and comment the good and/or bad | |
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 Butter my Biscuits
Posts: 2948
Location: MI | We don't have one so am definitely not a expert. Just wanted to say that we stood on one at the NFR for 15 minutes. Was 3 of us. All 3 commented that altho it felt nice while on it, our legs still tingled when we got off like they were asleep. Will stumbled shortly after getting off and commented that he "couldn't feel his feet". I don't think I would want to use one at a race. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 473
| Wild1 - 2014-05-22 11:24 PM
I wonder what the difference is in the Equi Vibe and Theraplate? Hmmm, thanks for the info...anyone else??
The way it vibrates. One is up and down, one is a "vortex" | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 473
| grinandbareit - 2014-05-23 2:06 PM
This is strictly my personal opinion... I don't like them. We do all kinds of stuff to our horses to help their joints and I think that the Theraplate undoes a lot of it. Vibration is not good for joints. That is why they make anti-vibration gloves, etc for people. Carpal tunnel syndrome can be a result of vibration. I know that I sold a horse not long ago that had never been injected, and never needed them. The people who bought her have a Theraplate... She just had her hocks, stifles, and whirlbones injected. Coincidence, maybe, but I wouldn't take the chance myself.
This is very good.
Honestly, when buying one you want to look at the way one vibrations and find a more natural vibration for the horse. Up down, side to side, vortex . . . that's what makes all of these brands different. Only ONE company I know of actually has RESEARCH to back them.
Also, what they don't tell you: DO NOT put a horse on them with anything broken or torn (something that needs to REATTACH/MEND) as the vibration with interfere with weak tissue trying to come back together.
They are great for hooves and HEALTHY horses. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2049
Location: Utah | I tried a theraplate demo, and here is my thoughts. For most of my horses they were ok getting on it. They would stand and were not at all bothered by it. I only had one who I felt like it maybe helped her. She ran ok while I had it, but I'm not sure if it was the plate or a few other things I did. However, she did get really hard to keep her on it while I was doing a treatment. She would want to walk off and was unhappy standing on it after a few weeks. I did have one horse who couldn't tolerate it. I had to have a chain on him to keep him on it and never was able to do a full "treatment" on him. He could only tolerate 10 minutes on a good day. The week that I kept him on it all week and then went to a race that weekend was the weekend that he ran off with me both days. Now, I understand he is "special" and couldn't tolerate acculife patches, magnets, and only 2 vets can inject him or the same thing happens, but I pulled him off it and a 2 weeks later he was right back to winning. I personally couldn't stand on it, but I could sit in a chair and keep my feet on it. I could also lay on it and was fine, but it made my husband feel sick. I really feel like to each their own, it was ok, but not worth the price to me. I didn't feel like I "saw" or "felt" enough of a difference, but I know lots of people who love them and swear by them. | |
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Location: midwest mama | trickster j - 2014-05-23 5:20 PM
WalknFaith - 2014-05-23 1:03 PM grinandbareit - 2014-05-23 1:06 PM This is strictly my personal opinion... I don't like them. We do all kinds of stuff to our horses to help their joints and I think that the Theraplate undoes a lot of it. Vibration is not good for joints. That is why they make anti-vibration gloves, etc for people. Carpal tunnel syndrome can be a result of vibration. I know that I sold a horse not long ago that had never been injected, and never needed them. The people who bought her have a Theraplate... She just had her hocks, stifles, and whirlbones injected. Coincidence, maybe, but I wouldn't take the chance myself. I don't agree either with them either. Different vibe plates used to be a big fad in the rehabilitation and physical therapy industry for people but have pretty much been phased out because they can do as much harm as good. My cousin owns her own rehabilitation clinic and has a back room full of diff vibrations plates for people she'd like to get rid of since they are no longer recommended to use them.
eta: you should always be wary of anyone who claims that their equipment can benefit all conditions. I've seen this a lot in those who push the vibration plates-
and the Aculife Patches, and the magnetic wraps, and the Acuscope machines, and the lasers - etc. etc. etc. It's true that I use and sell a lot of different therapy products- but I honestly inform potential buyers the limitations of them all. If someone tells you they have a device that helps with every condition imaginable- run!
Totally agree with you Trickster J about the vibrational plates...............I stood on one at the NFR last year and my equilibrium was off and I hurt (my joints, muscles) for several days afterwards.
However DO NOT agree with you about the Acuscope and its effectiveness. I know tons of people who use it and have for 20+ years on horses and have gotten excellent results with it. I'm not saying it is the ONLY thing that works or that it works on 100% of the horses treated with it, however its been around for 30+ years and is still going strong so there must be some validity to it. Lots of human practitioners are still using it daily in their practices. It definitely has not "failed" in the human world and was then just picked up by clever marketers to be "pushed" toward horse owners. And no, I do not sell Acuscopes or have any vested interest in the machine. But I have had horses treated with it on occasion in the past and been very happy with the results we have gotten. | |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| OldSchoolCowgirl - 2014-05-24 12:42 PM trickster j - 2014-05-23 5:20 PM WalknFaith - 2014-05-23 1:03 PM grinandbareit - 2014-05-23 1:06 PM This is strictly my personal opinion... I don't like them. We do all kinds of stuff to our horses to help their joints and I think that the Theraplate undoes a lot of it. Vibration is not good for joints. That is why they make anti-vibration gloves, etc for people. Carpal tunnel syndrome can be a result of vibration. I know that I sold a horse not long ago that had never been injected, and never needed them. The people who bought her have a Theraplate... She just had her hocks, stifles, and whirlbones injected. Coincidence, maybe, but I wouldn't take the chance myself. I don't agree either with them either. Different vibe plates used to be a big fad in the rehabilitation and physical therapy industry for people but have pretty much been phased out because they can do as much harm as good. My cousin owns her own rehabilitation clinic and has a back room full of diff vibrations plates for people she'd like to get rid of since they are no longer recommended to use them.
eta: you should always be wary of anyone who claims that their equipment can benefit all conditions. I've seen this a lot in those who push the vibration plates-
and the Aculife Patches, and the magnetic wraps, and the Acuscope machines, and the lasers - etc. etc. etc. It's true that I use and sell a lot of different therapy products- but I honestly inform potential buyers the limitations of them all. If someone tells you they have a device that helps with every condition imaginable- run! Totally agree with you Trickster J about the vibrational plates...............I stood on one at the NFR last year and my equilibrium was off and I hurt (my joints, muscles ) for several days afterwards. However DO NOT agree with you about the Acuscope and its effectiveness. I know tons of people who use it and have for 20+ years on horses and have gotten excellent results with it. I'm not saying it is the ONLY thing that works or that it works on 100% of the horses treated with it, however its been around for 30+ years and is still going strong so there must be some validity to it. Lots of human practitioners are still using it daily in their practices. It definitely has not "failed" in the human world and was then just picked up by clever marketers to be "pushed" toward horse owners. And no, I do not sell Acuscopes or have any vested interest in the machine. But I have had horses treated with it on occasion in the past and been very happy with the results we have gotten.
eta: I remember demoing vibrational plates when they first came out for people- they gave me a headache and aggravated my injuries. Those pretty much did fail on the human market- and weren't replaced.
Edited by trickster j 2014-05-24 2:31 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: North of where I want to be | I am so glad to see this thread! I was wondering what the thoughts were on the differences. I think I will stick to the Accuscope. I have seen the best results from it on all my horses, me, and my dogs. | |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I am glad I am not the only one that isn't sold on the vibration plates. Just the thought of vibrating an injury scared me. I now people that suggest for tendon injuries, etc and I just cannot see how vibrating a soft tissue injury like that could be helpful and not more harmful?? They may be good for hoof injuries to get more circulation to the hoof since the hoof is such a hard area to treat but I can't see it being any good for anything else. I thought maybe my thinking was way off but it looks like I'm not the only one that feels this way. Also I know how I feel after mowing for an hour on our zero-turn mower....my arms still feel like they are vibrating for quite a while later and that is not a good feeling. Not painful but just plain annoying.
Edited by Just Bring It 2014-05-25 1:57 PM
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 Blond Bombshell..
Posts: 6628
Location: Hill Country of TEXAS!! | If you want to increase circulation and blood flow, get out and hand walk your horse.. Vibrations and shaking isn't good and hardly does anything (my opinion/ bc we have to be PC here..) | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| KRJ1791 - 2014-05-25 6:36 AM
I am so glad to see this thread! I was wondering what the thoughts were on the differences. I think I will stick to the Accuscope. I have seen the best results from it on all my horses, me, and my dogs.
Did you buy an accuscope or do you haul to the vet? Interested...also what's the respond laser stuff? | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| After reading all these threads Im really unsure on a theraplate now :( Some say good and others say stay away! I'm going to ask my vet next week their opinion too...they are sure a pricey unit if not sure on it's results | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| Bump one last time :) | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| daisycake123 - 2014-05-26 3:59 PM Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad.
There is articles on the website. Also they have fine thermography studies, showing increased blood flow /circulation. | |
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | Dash4KJ - 2014-05-25 10:16 AM
If you want to increase circulation and blood flow, get out and hand walk your horse.. Vibrations and shaking isn't good and hardly does anything (my opinion/ bc we have to be PC here..)
I completely agree. I will stick with natural movement to increase blood flow. Something about being vibrated unnaturally makes me think it will do more harm. | |
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Hubby and I were discussing this today. I don't agree with them. I don't like them. Sometimes I wonder if the vibration numbs the pain issue which is why people see a difference.
If some people use it strictly to increase circulation, or say that's what its for, I'll stick to the less invasive ways to increase it. That and I promise you that my gelding wouldn't get on one for all the apples in the world. | |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| readytorodeo - 2014-05-26 5:12 PM daisycake123 - 2014-05-26 3:59 PM Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad. There is articles on the website. Also they have fine thermography studies, showing increased blood flow /circulation.
eta: and articles on the products website are usually biased.
Edited by trickster j 2014-05-26 7:14 PM
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | My horse has shown increased hoof growth for sure. I am able to trim/tweak his issues after two weeks and that was my goal. Increase hoof growth to work on better hoof form. Combined with some oxine/citric acid soaks his hooves are getting better and he won more money this weekend than any other time. I used my pony plate twice while at the show and he was quite happy to munch his hay and stand. Stalls were concrete but I used heavy shavings and made my own version of soft rides for him to wear (garden kneeling mat, and gorilla tape).
Yes I might have been able to work on his hooves and get similar results without the pony plate, but definitely not as fast as this (compared to the years previous trimming timeline). Our issues include long toe, underrun heel and flare. Never lame, but never showed much improvement with my previous trim style. I've learned a few more things and so far implementing them has helped a lot.
As for the theraplate- no experience. Others I know on facebook have seen happy with them. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| This is not a new product these vibration machines where used in pt where are those studies. I agree thermography not reliable.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | readytorodeo - 2014-05-26 6:12 PM daisycake123 - 2014-05-26 3:59 PM Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad. There is articles on the website. Also they have fine thermography studies, showing increased blood flow /circulation.
As a scientist, the studies they posted are not enough to sell me on this product.
I see some fundamental problems with using these studies as evidence for several reasons:
1) They are all performed on human subjects, not equine subjects
2) Many of the studies are not published, and the ones that are published did not seem (to me) to come from well-respected, peer reviewed scholarly journals
3) The samples sizes in many of these studies were extremely small (and therefore less statistcally significant)
4) Many of the studies did not show significant positive results in support of this therapy
5) They do not have studies supporting these claims (below), only testimonials:
How our customers are using it
Increases Circulation
Increases Bone Density (>30%)
Increases Muscle Mass
Reduces Swelling & Inflammation
Reduces Injuries
Faster Healing (2-3 times)
Improves Joint Health & Function
Improves Balance
Decreased Lameness
Prevent Bucked Shins
Improves Balance
Reduced Stress
Pain Relief
Increased Hoof Growth
Increased Digital Cushion Circulation
Maintain Muscle Mass - Stalled Horses
Warm Up/Warm Down
OCD
Sesamoiditis
Improves Joint Health & Function
Hocks and Stifles
Speed Fracture Healing
Improves Under Run Heels & Thin Soles
High Suspensory Injuries
Founder
Laminitis
EPM
Bleeders
Side note: I have noticed on the website they do not DIRECTLY say that the product does anything. They say "why our customers are using this", or just "why" in another section. That probably protects the company because they have a "satisfaction guarantee", so that in the event of the buyer not seeing the above results, they cannot use that as a reason for returning the produce for a full refund.(purely speculation on my end)
This is a pretty expensive therapy to invest in without significant evidence that the product does as advertised, JMO. | |
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 Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | Riding in a trailer gives them plenty of vibration. I have known 2 people that jumped out and bought a theraplate and quickly sold them | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| 3rdtimesacharm - 2014-05-27 9:20 AM
Riding in a trailer gives them plenty of vibration. I have known 2 people that jumped out and bought a theraplate and quickly sold them
The vibration from a trailer is totally different than the vibration from a Theraplate. I use mine daily and have no issues. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 7:18 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-26 6:12 PM daisycake123 - 2014-05-26 3:59 PM Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad. There is articles on the website. Also they have fine thermography studies, showing increased blood flow /circulation.
I see some fundamental problems with using these studies as evidence for several reasons:
1) They are all performed on human subjects, not equine subjects
2) Many of the studies are not published, and the ones that are published did not seem (to me) to come from well-respected, peer reviewed scholarly journals
3) The samples sizes in many of these studies were extremely small (and therefore less statistcally significant)
4) Many of the studies did not show significant positive results in support of this therapy
5) They do not have studies supporting these claims (below), only testimonials:
How our customers are using it
Increases Circulation
Increases Bone Density (>30%)
Increases Muscle Mass
Reduces Swelling & Inflammation
Reduces Injuries
Faster Healing (2-3 times)
Improves Joint Health & Function
Improves Balance
Decreased Lameness
Prevent Bucked Shins
Improves Balance
Reduced Stress
Pain Relief
Increased Hoof Growth
Increased Digital Cushion Circulation
Maintain Muscle Mass - Stalled Horses
Warm Up/Warm Down
OCD
Sesamoiditis
Improves Joint Health & Function
Hocks and Stifles
Speed Fracture Healing
Improves Under Run Heels & Thin Soles
High Suspensory Injuries
Founder
Laminitis
EPM
Bleeders
Side note: I have noticed on the website they do not DIRECTLY say that the product does anything. They say "why our customers are using this", or just "why" in another section. That probably protects the company because they have a "satisfaction guarantee", so that in the event of the buyer not seeing the above results, they cannot use that as a reason for returning the produce for a full refund.(purely speculation on my end)
This is a pretty expensive therapy to invest in without significant evidence that the product does as advertised, JMO.
Thank you Alison!
I don't know who came up with the idea of "vibrational medicine", but he must be in the running for "King of 20th Century Charlatans".
Anytime a person sees a wide, sweeping, almost exhaustive list of maladies that are "cured", this should be a red flag.
We all succumb to various unproven remedies and quackery from time to time, but this theraplate device is a wallet biopsy, in my opinion. I rank it right up there with coffee enemas and body wraps....and those things they had back in the 50's that featured a belt wrapped around your ass and it would jiggle back-and-forth, thus toning the ass muscles and melting the fat away. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | Well I personally have seen results but I tried the lesser cost device as I was unsure I could get my horse on it.
I think the long list of ailments that are "cured" are vast due to the fact of those are all things that increased circulation help- wouldnt you agree?
As far as hand walking vs vibration- if they are lame- walking sometimes isnt an option. And I can tell you like bones need impact for remodeling- this is an option to help. JMO.
I think like the much loved magnets on here---- they arent proven........ yet they are supposed increase blood flow which helps the body to heal itself of everything:) | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | TurnLane - 2014-05-27 12:59 PM Well I personally have seen results but I tried the lesser cost device as I was unsure I could get my horse on it.
I think the long list of ailments that are "cured" are vast due to the fact of those are all things that increased circulation help- wouldnt you agree?
As far as hand walking vs vibration- if they are lame- walking sometimes isnt an option. And I can tell you like bones need impact for remodeling- this is an option to help. JMO.
I think like the much loved magnets on here---- they arent proven........ yet they are supposed increase blood flow which helps the body to heal itself of everything:)
It's possible. However, this was not represented in any of the posted studies. They also have no equine studies posted. As we all know, a horse is much larger than a human. How would they be able to claim they have the best vibration type or frequency without any studies to explore that claim?
If it has never been trialed in horses in an organized study, how can they claim there is any effect at all? I assume the proof they present is in the form of testimonials for the equine products.
I will admit the company has no reason to perform such a study from a financial standpoint. After all, they are moving units without taking the time and money to perform such a study on equine subjects.
Side note, I thought because this product could actually inhibit soft tissue regeneration, it was not recommened for lame horses with ligament or tendon issues? (Correct me if I am wrong).
The thing with magnets is that they have a very small chance of causing harm, unlike a forced vibration therapy which forces movement. In addition, the magnets cost is MUCH less, so I have less of an issue buying them just to try it without much evidence. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 684
Location: Oklahoma | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 7:18 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-26 6:12 PM daisycake123 - 2014-05-26 3:59 PM Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad. There is articles on the website. Also they have fine thermography studies, showing increased blood flow /circulation.
I see some fundamental problems with using these studies as evidence for several reasons:
1) They are all performed on human subjects, not equine subjects
2) Many of the studies are not published, and the ones that are published did not seem (to me) to come from well-respected, peer reviewed scholarly journals
3) The samples sizes in many of these studies were extremely small (and therefore less statistcally significant)
4) Many of the studies did not show significant positive results in support of this therapy
5) They do not have studies supporting these claims (below), only testimonials:
How our customers are using it
Increases Circulation
Increases Bone Density (>30%)
Increases Muscle Mass
Reduces Swelling & Inflammation
Reduces Injuries
Faster Healing (2-3 times)
Improves Joint Health & Function
Improves Balance
Decreased Lameness
Prevent Bucked Shins
Improves Balance
Reduced Stress
Pain Relief
Increased Hoof Growth
Increased Digital Cushion Circulation
Maintain Muscle Mass - Stalled Horses
Warm Up/Warm Down
OCD
Sesamoiditis
Improves Joint Health & Function
Hocks and Stifles
Speed Fracture Healing
Improves Under Run Heels & Thin Soles
High Suspensory Injuries
Founder
Laminitis
EPM
Bleeders
Side note: I have noticed on the website they do not DIRECTLY say that the product does anything. They say "why our customers are using this", or just "why" in another section. That probably protects the company because they have a "satisfaction guarantee", so that in the event of the buyer not seeing the above results, they cannot use that as a reason for returning the produce for a full refund.(purely speculation on my end)
This is a pretty expensive therapy to invest in without significant evidence that the product does as advertised, JMO.
I can't imagine vibration would be very helpful in healing fractures? That seems really off to me. Also underrun heals?
hmmm....not convinced. lol | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets? | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-27 11:39 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 7:18 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-26 6:12 PM daisycake123 - 2014-05-26 3:59 PM Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad. There is articles on the website. Also they have fine thermography studies, showing increased blood flow /circulation.
I see some fundamental problems with using these studies as evidence for several reasons:
1) They are all performed on human subjects, not equine subjects
2) Many of the studies are not published, and the ones that are published did not seem (to me) to come from well-respected, peer reviewed scholarly journals
3) The samples sizes in many of these studies were extremely small (and therefore less statistcally significant)
4) Many of the studies did not show significant positive results in support of this therapy
5) They do not have studies supporting these claims (below), only testimonials:
How our customers are using it
Increases Circulation
Increases Bone Density (>30%)
Increases Muscle Mass
Reduces Swelling & Inflammation
Reduces Injuries
Faster Healing (2-3 times)
Improves Joint Health & Function
Improves Balance
Decreased Lameness
Prevent Bucked Shins
Improves Balance
Reduced Stress
Pain Relief
Increased Hoof Growth
Increased Digital Cushion Circulation
Maintain Muscle Mass - Stalled Horses
Warm Up/Warm Down
OCD
Sesamoiditis
Improves Joint Health & Function
Hocks and Stifles
Speed Fracture Healing
Improves Under Run Heels & Thin Soles
High Suspensory Injuries
Founder
Laminitis
EPM
Bleeders
Side note: I have noticed on the website they do not DIRECTLY say that the product does anything. They say "why our customers are using this", or just "why" in another section. That probably protects the company because they have a "satisfaction guarantee", so that in the event of the buyer not seeing the above results, they cannot use that as a reason for returning the produce for a full refund.(purely speculation on my end)
This is a pretty expensive therapy to invest in without significant evidence that the product does as advertised, JMO.
I don't know who came up with the idea of "vibrational medicine", but he must be in the running for "King of 20th Century Charlatans".
Anytime a person sees a wide, sweeping, almost exhaustive list of maladies that are "cured", this should be a red flag.
We all succumb to various unproven remedies and quackery from time to time, but this theraplate device is a wallet biopsy, in my opinion. I rank it right up there with coffee enemas and body wraps....and those things they had back in the 50's that featured a belt wrapped around your ass and it would jiggle back-and-forth, thus toning the ass muscles and melting the fat away.
Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | TurnLane - 2014-05-27 1:47 PM I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets?
For the soft tissue issue, I am curious as to how vibrational therapy would be of benefit to a horse with, say, a DDFT tear. That horse would traditionally be on stall rest to prevent the area from tearing during the healing process (ie keeping the area still). That statement was partially based on other people's comments on this thread indicating they thought they would see a potential problem with this therapy for similar injuries.
And yes, I have a PHT blanket, as well as other therapy products (BOT). They are the cost of the large theraplate minus a zero, lol. I don't have issues with people spending money on these products, I'm just explaining why I'm not convinced based upon the information they provided on the website.
My point about the magnets is that a static charge is pretty unlikely to cause harm.
And as far as testimonials AGAINST vibration, well I highly doubt those would make print on the company website. And the fact that it could be harmful was nothing more than my own speculation!
I don't think the product has been widely tested enough in any sort of clinical setting to say if it is harmful or helpful for a horse, based upon what I have read.
As far as studies go for magnet therapies, I don't think they really exist.
Much in the way of all the supplements on the market, it does not really make sense for a company to test the effectiveness of a product if they are not required to do so. After all, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a fiscal standpoint. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine.
Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON! | |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 4:02 PM Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON!
I could say something but I think we are supposed to stay PG rated at least :) | |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM
For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results
I understand that you own and use a Theraplate so it is difficult to for you to be totally open minded when people voice their concerns. By agreeing with them, then you would, in essence, be admitting to causing possible damage to your horse. No one wants to think that what they are doing to help their kids, animals, themselves… could actually be hurting them. Especially when they have spent big bucks to do it, lol. I think that although there is no absolute proof, either way, some people just don't want to take a chance that it could cause issues for their horse. If you are willing to take that chance then more power to you. We are all allowed to voice our opinion, either way. No one is trying to cause any hard feelings.
Good luck with your horses.
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Expert
Posts: 2049
Location: Utah | readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 2:02 PM
For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results
See, I personally don't believe that you will be able to use the higher settings on every horse or that it does in fact work for every horse. Sorry. My one horse would pretty much crawl out of his skin and 5 minutes at ANY setting (after trying for over 3 weeks) was too much for him, the most I got him to was 10 total minutes and I think 40 or maybe 50 and I had to have a chain on him to even get that. He just couldn't do it, and when I tried to keep him on it was a train wreck when I ran, I'm talking pretty much 1/2D all winter then on this and he would run off and not work. Took him off, went back to our old routines and he went right back to where he was. Do I think it might work for some, sure, my back felt better when I would lay on it; but is it a cure all, I don't think it is. I think it might have helped one of mine, but I also did some other things so I won't ever know for sure which it was. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Snappy - 2014-05-27 10:05 PM readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 2:02 PM For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results See, I personally don't believe that you will be able to use the higher settings on every horse or that it does in fact work for every horse. Sorry. My one horse would pretty much crawl out of his skin and 5 minutes at ANY setting (after trying for over 3 weeks ) was too much for him, the most I got him to was 10 total minutes and I think 40 or maybe 50 and I had to have a chain on him to even get that. He just couldn't do it, and when I tried to keep him on it was a train wreck when I ran, I'm talking pretty much 1/2D all winter then on this and he would run off and not work. Took him off, went back to our old routines and he went right back to where he was. Do I think it might work for some, sure, my back felt better when I would lay on it; but is it a cure all, I don't think it is. I think it might have helped one of mine, but I also did some other things so I won't ever know for sure which it was.
Believe me if I thought it was in any way hurting a horse I would not use it. I have seen it help a lot of horses. But each horse is different. I knownof one vet that uses it in his rehab facility and have talked to several vets that see no problem with using one. If there is any documentation showing it detrimental for horses I haven't seen it. And I did a lot of research before getting one. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results
Do you have documentation showing that wbv therapy increases circulation from a study published in a peer reviewed journal using equines as the subject? | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| barrelracr131 - 2014-05-28 5:12 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results Do you have documentation showing that wbv therapy increases circulation from a study published in a peer reviewed journal using equines as the subject?
I'm going to ask you the same question, do you gave something saying it doesn't? If you don't want to use one that's ok and in your opinion it doesn't work. That's your option to not use it.
Edited by readytorodeo 2014-05-28 8:28 AM
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 2:20 PM TurnLane - 2014-05-27 1:47 PM I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets? For the soft tissue issue, I am curious as to how vibrational therapy would be of benefit to a horse with, say, a DDFT tear. That horse would traditionally be on stall rest to prevent the area from tearing during the healing process (ie keeping the area still). That statement was partially based on other people's comments on this thread indicating they thought they would see a potential problem with this therapy for similar injuries.
And yes, I have a PHT blanket, as well as other therapy products (BOT). They are the cost of the large theraplate minus a zero, lol. I don't have issues with people spending money on these products, I'm just explaining why I'm not convinced based upon the information they provided on the website.
My point about the magnets is that a static charge is pretty unlikely to cause harm.
And as far as testimonials AGAINST vibration, well I highly doubt those would make print on the company website. And the fact that it could be harmful was nothing more than my own speculation!
I don't think the product has been widely tested enough in any sort of clinical setting to say if it is harmful or helpful for a horse, based upon what I have read.
As far as studies go for magnet therapies, I don't think they really exist.
Much in the way of all the supplements on the market, it does not really make sense for a company to test the effectiveness of a product if they are not required to do so. After all, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a fiscal standpoint.
I agree, I dont think magnetic therapy studies exist and talk about everyone and their dog uses them- at a lower per piece price- I would say volume of sales far exceeds any vibration therapy $$$$$$$ and everyone uses them. I think it may be a placebo effect but hey- I have them as well.
I think on soft tissue- like you brought up- it is the flexion often times that needs to be avoided and the vibration is a zero flexion stimulation that sends bloodflow from impact without movement- just my theory in my mind. I am not suggesting they are the cure all end all but if I believe ANY thing- I believe the foot is the life of the horse and the hoof is the place I want the most blood flow and the hardest place to get it. People try frog support, balancing the foot, isoxoprene (sp?) and all sorts of supplements for this reason.
But mainly I will say much like advertising- I see what others that I respect do differently or use and sometimes try it- point and case Tiany. Edwin has all the money in the world to use any therapy he wants. They used the Equivibe for years and had results yet saw ways to improve it. Does she ride great horses -- yes-- does this make them win? Likely not but if they have an unending budget and choose this device- Im all for trying it. And it is bar none the device I have used the most of any. My horse will drag me down the hall to get on it. Does it work-- I cant say but I do see increased growth and a thicker hoof wall. I like it. But above all things I believe in my vet and fda approved meds. 
So for the vast majority of those who spend their money on Apple Cider Vinegar that I am pretty sure has a list of cure alls as long as vibration-- more power to them--but they have as little proof as magnets, jello powder, ect. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON!
Colored lights, tuning forks. Making your body actually shake is very crude. I think it's scientifically proven that colors and sounds can affect mood and brain activity. Take it one step further and they can be used to promote a healing state--your body is quite capable of healing itself of most things. Sounds out there, but I've seen it work on migraines, gall bladder issues, and neurological problems. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| missroselee - 2014-05-27 6:23 PM
lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 4:02 PM Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON!
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-05-28 8:48 AM lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON!
Yes, I can dig up peer reviewed journal articles on light therapy - especially red light wave length type therapy. I know that it works on deep tissue and promotes healing of nicked tendons. I have not seen a peer reviewed journal article for vibrational therapy/medicine ... I'd love to see one!
I agree, a body that is healthy except for a single injury can heal itself quite well. I think the hard part with the theraplate type therapy is to not stress or hurt something else while compensating for the original injury. Does that make sense or did I just muck it up?? | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | readytorodeo - 2014-05-28 8:22 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-05-28 5:12 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results Do you have documentation showing that wbv therapy increases circulation from a study published in a peer reviewed journal using equines as the subject?
I'm not saying it doesn't work (and did not say that), I'm saying the science isn't there to support it- either way- because the effects of WBV therapy have not been studied on equines. Ever. (and if they have, link me the article por favor)
My ideas about injuries responding to WBV therapy were just that- ideas. Speculation.
However, my original point was that "the science" they were quoting on the company's site did not provide statistically significant data to support the claims made regarding expected results in horses. In other words, I am not yet convinced. As far as saying "it doesn't work", no one can do that with any confidence because this therapy has not been adequately studied in horses. | |
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 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | BARREL RACERS LOVE PRODUCTS!
At BBR in OKC, I watched the patch people, at $12 a set, have 'em lined up 5 or 6 deep. The lady with the magnawave, another vibrating tool, made a killing. There I stand with just my hands and a therapy that has 3,000 years of use and is extensively used by humans and I can't get a single customer! My health insurance started paying for massages 4 years ago! Massage has proven good results but gets overlooked in favor of the newest fad product.
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | CanCan - 2014-05-28 10:23 AM BARREL RACERS LOVE PRODUCTS!
At BBR in OKC, I watched the patch people, at $12 a set, have 'em lined up 5 or 6 deep. The lady with the magnawave, another vibrating tool, made a killing. There I stand with just my hands and a therapy that has 3,000 years of use and is extensively used by humans and I can't get a single customer! My health insurance started paying for massages 4 years ago! Massage has proven good results but gets overlooked in favor of the newest fad product.
I would have thought you would have customers if for no other reason than to watch you so they could then try to do it themselves. Then again, massage is WORK, so maybe not. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 2:20 PM TurnLane - 2014-05-27 1:47 PM I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets? For the soft tissue issue, I am curious as to how vibrational therapy would be of benefit to a horse with, say, a DDFT tear. That horse would traditionally be on stall rest to prevent the area from tearing during the healing process (ie keeping the area still). That statement was partially based on other people's comments on this thread indicating they thought they would see a potential problem with this therapy for similar injuries.
And yes, I have a PHT blanket, as well as other therapy products (BOT). They are the cost of the large theraplate minus a zero, lol. I don't have issues with people spending money on these products, I'm just explaining why I'm not convinced based upon the information they provided on the website.
My point about the magnets is that a static charge is pretty unlikely to cause harm.
And as far as testimonials AGAINST vibration, well I highly doubt those would make print on the company website. And the fact that it could be harmful was nothing more than my own speculation!
I don't think the product has been widely tested enough in any sort of clinical setting to say if it is harmful or helpful for a horse, based upon what I have read.
As far as studies go for magnet therapies, I don't think they really exist.
Much in the way of all the supplements on the market, it does not really make sense for a company to test the effectiveness of a product if they are not required to do so. After all, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a fiscal standpoint.
It's very hard to find anything in Alison's remarks that is incorrect. All she is really trying to say is, Theraplate might actually be beneficial, but the sound scientific evidence that it definitely helps hasn't been cited. The question is do you have $6000 laying around to spend on a product that is unproven? The manufacturers of this device use articles that show, for example, that there is increased venous return, as seen in venograms, following the use of theraplate. The nice pictures of xrays that purport to demonstrate this may be impressive, but this "evidence" does not prove anything as far as effectiveness is concerned. I will admit that the article is a handy marketing tool. If increased venous flow was the answer to a given problem, I would think there are far less expensive ways of accomplishing this....ie: heat, isoxuprine, etc.....
To ask "Where is the proof that Theraplate therapy does NOT work?" is clever, but that's like asking "Where is the proof that there is NOT a candy-apple red '57 Chevy orbiting the moon?" Just because you can't prove something doesn't exist, doesn't mean it definitively exists. Proving a negative is usually much harder than proving a positive. Since there doesn't appear to be definitive proof that the Theraplate device does NOT work, the manufacturers of this device would like you to give it a try.....for $6000. I have a feeling that if I bought one of these contraptions, it would wind up in my garage next to my Bowflex.
If you want a few laughs, take a tour of the various quackery devices that have been promoted like Theraplate, such as the "Vibrometer":
http://www.museumofquackery.com/devices/vibrate.htm
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Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | I have a hand held massager with heat I got at wal mart for my husband several years ago for his back that we don't use anymore and have been using it on my horse and he just loves it. Will make the funniest faces when I use it on him. Best $39 I've ever spent. Ask Jackie jatzlau what she thinks about hers and is she still uses it, but she may have the pony plate. I saw one of her posts 6 months ago or do where she had some of her horses using it. This like most things is a padding fad because they know a lot of horse people will buy it if someone tells them it will make their horse perform better | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-28 10:58 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 2:20 PM TurnLane - 2014-05-27 1:47 PM I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets? For the soft tissue issue, I am curious as to how vibrational therapy would be of benefit to a horse with, say, a DDFT tear. That horse would traditionally be on stall rest to prevent the area from tearing during the healing process (ie keeping the area still). That statement was partially based on other people's comments on this thread indicating they thought they would see a potential problem with this therapy for similar injuries.
And yes, I have a PHT blanket, as well as other therapy products (BOT). They are the cost of the large theraplate minus a zero, lol. I don't have issues with people spending money on these products, I'm just explaining why I'm not convinced based upon the information they provided on the website.
My point about the magnets is that a static charge is pretty unlikely to cause harm.
And as far as testimonials AGAINST vibration, well I highly doubt those would make print on the company website. And the fact that it could be harmful was nothing more than my own speculation!
I don't think the product has been widely tested enough in any sort of clinical setting to say if it is harmful or helpful for a horse, based upon what I have read.
As far as studies go for magnet therapies, I don't think they really exist.
Much in the way of all the supplements on the market, it does not really make sense for a company to test the effectiveness of a product if they are not required to do so. After all, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a fiscal standpoint.
To ask "Where is the proof that Theraplate therapy does NOT work?" is clever, but that's like asking "Where is the proof that there is NOT a candy-apple red '57 Chevy orbiting the moon?" Just because you can't prove something doesn't exist, doesn't mean it definitively exists. Proving a negative is usually much harder than proving a positive. Since there doesn't appear to be definitive proof that the Theraplate device does NOT work, the manufacturers of this device would like you to give it a try.....for $6000. I have a feeling that if I bought one of these contraptions, it would wind up in my garage next to my Bowflex.
If you want a few laughs, take a tour of the various quackery devices that have been promoted like Theraplate, such as the "Vibrometer":
http://www.museumofquackery.com/devices/vibrate.htm
I think you and I were fb buddies for a topic or two? Anyhow- I am not saying she is wrong at all. I usually prefer science- I am just saying- why the bashing on the TP (which i DONT own) when the same evidence to support it is the same as for the BOT or PHT might use (venograms?) ect. It is not less valid for them just becuse it cost $6k.
I do think there are snakeoil salesmen in every industry but I see this less as a way to make a bunch of money and more as a service to try and help a horse- proven or not. Just my thoughts.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | TurnLane - 2014-05-28 11:12 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-28 10:58 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 2:20 PM TurnLane - 2014-05-27 1:47 PM I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets? For the soft tissue issue, I am curious as to how vibrational therapy would be of benefit to a horse with, say, a DDFT tear. That horse would traditionally be on stall rest to prevent the area from tearing during the healing process (ie keeping the area still). That statement was partially based on other people's comments on this thread indicating they thought they would see a potential problem with this therapy for similar injuries.
And yes, I have a PHT blanket, as well as other therapy products (BOT). They are the cost of the large theraplate minus a zero, lol. I don't have issues with people spending money on these products, I'm just explaining why I'm not convinced based upon the information they provided on the website.
My point about the magnets is that a static charge is pretty unlikely to cause harm.
And as far as testimonials AGAINST vibration, well I highly doubt those would make print on the company website. And the fact that it could be harmful was nothing more than my own speculation!
I don't think the product has been widely tested enough in any sort of clinical setting to say if it is harmful or helpful for a horse, based upon what I have read.
As far as studies go for magnet therapies, I don't think they really exist.
Much in the way of all the supplements on the market, it does not really make sense for a company to test the effectiveness of a product if they are not required to do so. After all, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a fiscal standpoint.
To ask "Where is the proof that Theraplate therapy does NOT work?" is clever, but that's like asking "Where is the proof that there is NOT a candy-apple red '57 Chevy orbiting the moon?" Just because you can't prove something doesn't exist, doesn't mean it definitively exists. Proving a negative is usually much harder than proving a positive. Since there doesn't appear to be definitive proof that the Theraplate device does NOT work, the manufacturers of this device would like you to give it a try.....for $6000. I have a feeling that if I bought one of these contraptions, it would wind up in my garage next to my Bowflex.
If you want a few laughs, take a tour of the various quackery devices that have been promoted like Theraplate, such as the "Vibrometer":
http://www.museumofquackery.com/devices/vibrate.htm
I do think there are snakeoil salesmen in every industry but I see this less as a way to make a bunch of money and more as a service to try and help a horse- proven or not. Just my thoughts.
You might be right TurnLane. Maybe the makers of this device are merely trying to better our lives and maybe the $6000 price tag is not intended to profiteer. Maybe it's all just a benevolent gesture. If you wish to believe that, then by all means, be my guest.
For some reason, this thread reminds me of the ads for "colon cleanse" where they used an aesthetically pleasing photo of a huge fecal cast of the colon as "proof" of how their product eliminated "toxins".
I happen to believe this is all snake oil, pure and simple. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I like BOT and PHT products but I don't go around saying they are scientifically proven.....big difference. Like I said earlier, we all succumb to the use of a wide array of unproven remedies but some of us admit that they aren't really backed by sound science. I used a BOT "mini blanket" and wrapped it around my sore knee and the next day it felt MUCH better. That does not mean the product is scientifically proven. It's one thing to spend $50 or even $300 on a product that may not actually be based on sound science.....but another thing entirely to spend $6000. As Alison said, Theraplate MIGHT actually work and maybe there will be sound evidence to support it, but so far, contrary to what many seem to think, that evidence seems to be lacking. | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | Haha, I rarely believe much other than real life friends that I know and trust-you would be one of the virtual ones on certain topics:) I will say it again, this device is no different in facts, studies, advertising or claims than magnets, feed thrus or ACV, thats all. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | TurnLane - 2014-05-28 11:39 AM
Haha, I rarely believe much other than real life friends that I know and trust-you would be one of the virtual ones on certain topics:) I will say it again, this device is no different in facts, studies, advertising or claims than magnets, feed thrus or ACV, thats all.
I agree. | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | That is one of the reasons I bought the Pony Plate- LESS money (Ive spent that much at the vet in one visit) but also UL listed for safety which really matters to me on electrical devices. The more sore footed a horse is- the more they seem to enjoy it. I liken it to a foot massage. And I love it- thats all- just sharing. | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | 3rdtimesacharm - 2014-05-28 10:59 AM I have a hand held massager with heat I got at wal mart for my husband several years ago for his back that we don't use anymore and have been using it on my horse and he just loves it. Will make the funniest faces when I use it on him. Best $39 I've ever spent. Ask Jackie jatzlau what she thinks about hers and is she still uses it, but she may have the pony plate. I saw one of her posts 6 months ago or do where she had some of her horses using it. This like most things is a padding fad because they know a lot of horse people will buy it if someone tells them it will make their horse perform better
Can you google and find the one you have- the massager? I wanted to buy the one Molly Powell uses but this one sounds handy. | |
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Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | I took a pic of the box but I don't know to load it off my iPad. It's made by homedis and it's called a percussion massager with heat but you don't have to use the heat and it has different levels of vibrations. It has 2 knobs on it andyou only want to use it on areas with a lot of fat or muscles. I would think, although mine loves it around his withers where horses like to scratch one another. I bought this at wal mart a long time ago. IF they still carry it, it's probably lot more expensive. I also tried a chiropractic massager but it only has one speed and it was hard for me to use it shook me so bad.. I just googled them and they still sell them and are $39.99 at bed bath and beyond too
Edited by 3rdtimesacharm 2014-05-28 12:15 PM
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | 3rdtimesacharm - 2014-05-28 12:09 PM I took a pic of the box but I don't know to load it off my iPad. It's made by homedis and it's called a percussion massager with heat but you don't have to use the heat and it has different levels of vibrations. It has 2 knobs on it andyou only want to use it on areas with a lot of fat or muscles. I would think, although mine loves it around his withers where horses like to scratch one another. I bought this at wal mart a long time ago. IF they still carry it, it's probably lot more expensive. I also tried a chiropractic massager but it only has one speed and it was hard for me to use it shook me so bad.. I just googled them and they still sell them and are $39.99 at bed bath and beyond too
Thanks!
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | A car buffer with the soft pad works well too. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Herbie - 2014-05-28 12:52 PM
A car buffer with the soft pad works well too.
I would love to do a side by side comparison. Price, ease of use, and effectiveness. I use my Equisports massager A LOT but it was a good chunk of money, so I better use it. LOL I was wearing my hands out without it. | |
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 Miss Positive
Posts: 3554
Location: Crowder, OK | I know for a for a fact that it helped my horses feet. he had underrun heals, thin soles and shelly feet. it did increase his sole depth. Im sorry i dont have my x rays on hand to prove it, but I did see them. all horses are different and I do believe some horses the higher settings will make them sore. its a catch 22 w/anything imo....I think it works on some things and others it doesnt. I also love BOT stuff, I have personnaly seen the results the wraps made on a healing a suspensory tear, and the fact that due to my horse's wraps helping my husband's back while in his recliner, we bought a BOT bed cover and it has most def helped his restless leg syndrome at night and other sorenesses...Now, I cannot sleep on it, it makes my skind crawl all night, but we have it just on his side of the bed and it works for him....again, horses are like people, some things works on some and some things dont. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-28 11:42 AM TurnLane - 2014-05-28 11:39 AM
Haha, I rarely believe much other than real life friends that I know and trust-you would be one of the virtual ones on certain topics:) I will say it again, this device is no different in facts, studies, advertising or claims than magnets, feed thrus or ACV, thats all. I agree.
Totes agree as well
Magnets, feed throughs, etc are also not backed by studies (With the exception of Cosequin, which does have a clinical trial backing its absorbtion). The difference for me, like Hotbear said, is price. I can gamble with a few hundred bucks..... thousands, not so much. I don't have the money to do so on a therapy. I would rather spend that on a nice prospect, new tack, put towards a trailer, etc etc.
I could care less what folks do, or use, especially if they are seeing good results. But for me..... At this level of expense, I would want some better science backing this therapy. If I were spending it on a therapy, I would rather put the money towards chiro, massage, and a good lameness vet. Again, JMO. I am a hobbyist and this is not how I make my money, so I do not need every possible competitive edge either.
FTR I did consider having my husband make me a PP to try it out, and their price point really is not far off. The materials plus labor, plus a small markup (they should make a profit after all) put their price in a reasonable range in his opinion. I didn't want to spend that much to try it, so we never made one.
What happened to my font? lol | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Tinkerbell - 2014-05-28 1:13 PM I know for a for a fact that it helped my horses feet. he had underrun heals, thin soles and shelly feet. it did increase his sole depth. Im sorry i dont have my x rays on hand to prove it, but I did see them. all horses are different and I do believe some horses the higher settings will make them sore. its a catch 22 w/anything imo....I think it works on some things and others it doesnt. I also love BOT stuff, I have personnaly seen the results the wraps made on a healing a suspensory tear, and the fact that due to my horse's wraps helping my husband's back while in his recliner, we bought a BOT bed cover and it has most def helped his restless leg syndrome at night and other sorenesses...Now, I cannot sleep on it, it makes my skind crawl all night, but we have it just on his side of the bed and it works for him....again, horses are like people, some things works on some and some things dont.
Just another question- did you do anything else for the horse with the bad feet at the same time? (Like biotin, better feed, supplements, special trims)? This is one of the tougher things using testimonials as evidence. Don't get me wrong- I am really glad it helped you horse! And def glad he's doing better :)
Scientific studies, as a whole, eliminate the other variables that may be partially or even fully accountable for the changes one sees (again just saying this in general, I'm not picking you out in particular).
I too really like the BOT stuff. They do increase circulation IME and help my horse warm up smoother.
I agree that different therapies seem to work better for some than for others. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Tinkerbell - 2014-05-28 1:13 PM I know for a for a fact that it helped my horses feet. he had underrun heals, thin soles and shelly feet. it did increase his sole depth. Im sorry i dont have my x rays on hand to prove it, but I did see them. all horses are different and I do believe some horses the higher settings will make them sore. its a catch 22 w/anything imo....I think it works on some things and others it doesnt. I also love BOT stuff, I have personnaly seen the results the wraps made on a healing a suspensory tear, and the fact that due to my horse's wraps helping my husband's back while in his recliner, we bought a BOT bed cover and it has most def helped his restless leg syndrome at night and other sorenesses...Now, I cannot sleep on it, it makes my skind crawl all night, but we have it just on his side of the bed and it works for him....again, horses are like people, some things works on some and some things dont.
That's interesting: made your skin crawl? I wasn't impressed with the BOT company claims, but there were so many people who had used the stuff on themselves and noticed it working, that I decided to try a couple of products to see for myself. My horse now lives in the no-bows every day. It actually worked just as well as a furacin sweat and better than poulticing at getting rid of the inflammation in his ankles and keeping it down (he has thinned cartilage in his front fetlocks) and made a huge difference when compared to using regular no bows with no medications. (I did my own control LOL) | |
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| I have the demo currently and let's just say that I will be giving it back... I don't really know how to prove that it IS working, for one. Also, my horse won't have anything to do with it. She jumps off of it. Lastly, I frankly don't have the time or energy to get out there 3 times a day for 20 minutes. The lameness vet at A&M didn't recommend it so I'm trusting all of his schooling on this one (: | |
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Forever Tan
Posts: 2925
Location: Wisconsin | achildres - 2014-05-29 1:40 PM
I have the demo currently and let's just say that I will be giving it back... I don't really know how to prove that it IS working, for one. Also, my horse won't have anything to do with it. She jumps off of it. Lastly, I frankly don't have the time or energy to get out there 3 times a day for 20 minutes. The lameness vet at A&M didn't recommend it so I'm trusting all of his schooling on this one (:
I so agree with this post...
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Theraplate users....