|
|
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
  
| I agree, college costs are too high but as a parent who also had 3 in college at one time, our kids had to go where we could afford. The short version of this article is their 3 chose to go to expensive private schools, they had no savings to pay for it and did not quailify for financial aid. They had $500K in student dedt. One daughter has 150K in student debt for a music therapy degree, has graduated and earns 34K. Dad lost his job but they took out a laon on thier house to pay for eldest daughters wedding. They are now complaining about their debt but not the decisions they made to get them there. To me it is no different then spending money you don't have on cars and clothes.
Student debt nearly destroyed this family's finances.
View photo Valerie (left) and Peter Shippen (right) were $500,000 in debt after financing their children's college education. (Photo: Valerie Shippen) Valerie Shippen thought she was being frugal when she agreed to pay for only one year of college tuition for each of her four children.The 49-year-old Ipswich, Mass., schoolteacher and her husband, Peter, an electrical engineer, both went to college and graduate school. They wanted to do whatever they could to give their children the same opportunities. They assumed they would get help from financial aid, but like many middle-class households, their bids for federal financial aid were denied. It didn’t matter that three of their four children were in college at the same time — on paper, they looked better off than most, though their reality was far different.“All three kids were in college all at the same time and we didn’t have cash saved up,” Shippen says. “We had to finance everything.”SInce each of their three kids decided to attend private universities, their financing options were limited. They could have taken out private loans, which would have meant higher interest rates and fewer flexible repayment options. But when they found out the schools participated in the federal direct loan program, they opted to take go with Parent PLUS loans instead. They borrowed just enough to see their kids through their undergraduate degrees, with the understanding that each would pay off 75% of their loan balance after graduating. (Parent PLUS loans allow parents to take out student loans under their name on behalf of dependent undergraduates).With all three kids attending private universities, their collective student debt bill quickly grew to more than $500,000. Two of their children have managed to pay off their debt since graduating, but the couple is still strapped with more than $150,000 worth of loans and will add more to their load when their youngest son graduates next year (though, thankfully, he went to a public school). When Peter lost his job briefly a few years ago, they came close to losing their home and refinanced their mortgage in December to help pay for their eldest daughter's wedding. “It has just killed us,” Shippen says. “We have no retirement savings. We’re on a 25-year repayment plan and still paying $1,700 a month. It’s like having another mortgage payment.”Although their loans are federal and they have the option to apply for an income-based repayment plan, the Shippens were told their combined income was too high to qualify. Their story is extreme but not altogether uncommon.As much as parents want to give their kids a leg up in college, the reality is that college costs have increased by nearly 30% over the last five years alone. This has happened in tandem with the Great Recession, which many families are still recovering from.And when their savings are tapped and there’s nowhere else to turn to put their kids through school, parents can be just as likely to use loans to make up the difference. Since the recession, student loans have become the fastest growing household debt in the U.S..Nearly 30% of the 38 million federal student loan borrowers in the U.S. today are between 40 and 59 years old. There’s no data that details exactly how many of these older borrowers are parents looking to help out their children, like the Shippens, but it’s safe to assume they aren’t all simply late college bloomers. It's easier to estimate the number of parents who are tied up in private loans, however. Nearly 90 percent of all private student loans require at least one relative to cosign.When parents and other relatives cosign a student loan, they are held equally accountable for making payments on time. If the student can’t make their payments on time, cosigners have to pick up the slack. And they get burned just as badly by defaulted loans, which can wreck their credit score and make it difficult to qualify for new loans — not to mention the hassle of dealing with incessant phone calls from lenders. For parents who take on Parent PLUS loans, like the Shippens, the loans are entirely in their name, which means they’re the only ones who will take the hit for late payments.“I think a lot of parents work under the misunderstanding that they can get a lot of aid from schools and that it will be free money,” says Mary Anne Busse, a consultant who works with 529 plan administrators. “The reality is that it is most often not free money and a lot of financial aid packages come in the form of loans.”On the hook long after graduationThe burden of college cost-sharing can extend far beyond a student’s graduation date, as well. Though the economy is recovering, unemployment is still in the double digits for 20- to 24-year-olds, and for recent graduates who have managed to find jobs, nearly half are considered to be underemployed. Cash-strapped and with tens of thousands of dollars in loans to contend with, home is often the first place graduates go for assistance.In a survey to be released Tuesday by Upromise by Sallie Mae, nearly 85% of parents say they expect to bankroll their children well after graduation, either by letting them move back home or helping them pay for a place of their own. Half of parents say they would help out their kids for up to five years, while one-third say they would cut them off after six months.So far, two of Shippen’s children have had to move back home at some point to help pay off their loans. Her youngest daughter, Channing, graduated with a degree in music therapy from a private university in 2013 and now works as a music therapist at a nonprofit helping the elderly. She earns about $34,000 a year and owes five times that much in student loans, the bulk of which is in her mother’s name.She plans on moving back in with her parents in September so she throw as much money as possible toward her debt.“At the time, [the financial aid office] made it seem like the loans were free money, like it was the solution and there was no conversation about what it would actually mean when I graduated," she says. "I don't think anyone explained it to my parents either. I feel ridiculous being 25 years old and not being able to support myself financially.”The wisest thing college hopefuls and their parents can do to keep from biting off more debt than they can chew is to adjust their expectations about college altogether, Busse says.For parents who dreamed of putting their kids through school that may mean learning to put more of the cost burden on their children’s shoulders. For students who dream of going to private universities for a degree that may not lead to a very lucrative career, it may mean opting for an in-state school or community college instead.“I think for a while we were in that mode where the expectation was for parents to pay for everything,” Busse says. “But we’re finding young college students today are paying a little bit more and putting a little bit more of their skin the game. Parents are asking their children to take some ownership.
Edited by rodeomom3 2014-05-23 4:43 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | People are stupid and then want to blame everyone but themselves for their stupid decisions. |
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-05-23 4:06 PM People are stupid and then want to blame everyone but themselves for their stupid decisions.
Yes, not once in this article do they say they made wrong decisions or acknoweldge the decisions made that got them where they are. |
|
| |
|
  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Sad to say this seems to be the norm more and more today. It sound like the parents were not raised to respect money with what it can and cannot buy. Maybe the children can learn from this. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-05-23 4:15 PM Sad to say this seems to be the norm more and more today. It sound like the parents were not raised to respect money with what it can and cannot buy. Maybe the children can learn from this.
The children I've met from this generation are learning to be selfish, entitled, victimized brats. |
|
| |
|
 The Vaccinator
Posts: 3810
Location: Slipping down the slope of old age. Boo hoo. | It amazes me how young adults sign up for college and take out such massive loans for degrees yet do not take time to research the type of job they can land with the degree, i.e. the types of jobs available, salaries, the likelihood of landing a job with the chosen degree, the future of jobs in that particular field, etc. It amazes me the parents do not discuss this with them. Or that someone doesn't discuss it with them. Or that they don't even think about it. Or maybe they do. And don't care if they can land a paying job or not. I don't know. |
|
| |
|
Location: East of the Pecos | music therapy? no wonder |
|
| |
|
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Bug Is Alive - 2014-05-23 5:51 PM
music therapy? no wonder
At least it isn't Art History - like my sister-in-law. Lol |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Sigh... Why put yourself into hock to pay for a wedding? Really?! And PRIVATE college with no savings? This is beyond stupid. And it's true - THIS is exactly why this next generation expects everything handed to them. My generation is not making good decisions. |
|
| |
|
 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | A woman that I worked with for years just told me that her daughter (an only child) that graduated from college last December is going back to school to get her masters. The mom retired last August and they do not have a lot of savings. He husband lost his job last year after 20 something years with the same company when the owner died. Her degree is in art and I am not sure what kind of job you get with that. I think she said that she wants to teach at the college level but what are the chances of someone fresh out of college getting a position like that or even how many advanced art positions there are. This girl was always smart but I don't understand what she is thinking. |
|
| |
|
 A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | I can understand taking out loans for college. But letting your kids go anywhere they want AND seeking degrees that will land them mediocre jobs isn't the brightest idea. THEN refinancing their home to pay for a wedding? Tell her to go to the courthouse.
Too many girls want the wedding and not the marriage anyways. Geez. This is terrible.
Community college isn't crazy expensive and most have articulation agreements with the state school systems. Whole lot cheaper. But I don't think a public school has a music therapy degree. Ugh.
Edited by hlynn 2014-05-23 7:05 PM
|
|
| |
|
boon
Posts: 1
| I understand what everyone on here is saying but I will come from a students side. I did not ask nor could my mom pay for my college education. Our lives growing up were difficult and she couldn't save for our college. I graduated with a Bachelors degree in Ag Services and Development. Leaving college I now have around $50,000 in student loan debt. (I know that's small for some) When I graduated I couldn't find a job anywhere and definitely wasn't opposed to moving. I took a job working back where I worked while going through school. The pay was terrible but I couldn't find anything else. Making $20,000 a yr trying to pay for my home and my student loans which are like a house note themselves. I make it work. But responding to a few comments on here, some people are ridiculing someone's decision about their major. We are taught our whole lives to do what we enjoy and want to do for the rest of our lives. I thought Ag was suited for me. I knew jobs may be hard to find but IMO you have to do what you enjoy and sometimes student loans are the only option to get the education needed for certain jobs. I don't feel the parents should pay for everything and sometimes circumstances cause you to take out loans or do things you didn't plan. Now, I've found a better job and do well for myself but I don't think my generation is as bad as some say. The ones who are selfish and victimize themselves are the ones handed everything then asked to work etc... These parents knowingly gave up everything to better their children's future. I'm not saying I would do what they did or go about like that but let's not talk about them when they did what they felt they needed to do! |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| I will add: I feel better all the time about waiting a few years to start college. My parents did not pay one red cent on my tuition or living expenses. I chose a major that got me into the field I knew I wanted (Criminal Justice Admin). I now earn six figures and my student loan payment is around $200/ mo. Not bad for coming from nothing. Please people, don't go into hock to avoid teaching your kids hard work and responsibility.
ETA: I eloped to Maui and married the man of my dreams. No resentment over my parents not mortgaging their home for my princess day.
Edited by HorseMommyFiveO 2014-05-23 7:14 PM
|
|
| |
|
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | acrodeo - 2014-05-23 7:05 PM
I understand what everyone on here is saying but I will come from a students side. I did not ask nor could my mom pay for my college education. Our lives growing up were difficult and she couldn't save for our college. I graduated with a Bachelors degree in Ag Services and Development. Leaving college I now have around $50,000 in student loan debt. (I know that's small for some) When I graduated I couldn't find a job anywhere and definitely wasn't opposed to moving. I took a job working back where I worked while going through school. The pay was terrible but I couldn't find anything else. Making $20,000 a yr trying to pay for my home and my student loans which are like a house note themselves. I make it work. But responding to a few comments on here, some people are ridiculing someone's decision about their major. We are taught our whole lives to do what we enjoy and want to do for the rest of our lives. I thought Ag was suited for me. I knew jobs may be hard to find but IMO you have to do what you enjoy and sometimes student loans are the only option to get the education needed for certain jobs. I don't feel the parents should pay for everything and sometimes circumstances cause you to take out loans or do things you didn't plan. Now, I've found a better job and do well for myself but I don't think my generation is as bad as some say. The ones who are selfish and victimize themselves are the ones handed everything then asked to work etc... These parents knowingly gave up everything to better their children's future. I'm not saying I would do what they did or go about like that but let's not talk about them when they did what they felt they needed to do!
ALSO from a students' perspective, as I just finished my BS in Elementary Education not too long ago:
Yes, it is GREAT to do something you love, but be realistic. My sister-in-law is majoring in art history and has NO plan for her life other than hopefully marry a doctor or a lawyer. Yes, she likes art - there are so many other USEFUL AND MARKETABLE degrees: advertising, media, graphic design, digital communications, etc. The reason she chose Art History? It's easy and she can easily pass the classes while still staying active in her sorority. Her own words. My in-laws are paying for her to go to school, ALL her "living" expenses, AND just bought her a new SUV. I could care less what they do with all their money, but it irritates me that they are enabling yet ANOTHER person of our generation to enter the real world with no responsibility.
The point of the article wasn't about all the "sacrifices" these folks made - they were IDIOTS. Their kids could have gone to state universities, the one could have gotten married at the courthouse, I mean come on.
I have no student debt because I had a full academic scholarship for my entire degree. Would I have let myself or anybody else rack up 150k in debt so I could be a teacher and make 40k a year? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
My aunt on the other hand, just graduated with her PhD in virus pathology, and 150k in student loans - BUT her starting salary is more than that, so good on her. Go and rack up loans if your degree is WORTH IT. Just about any bachelors now is worthless and to get a decent job you need a master. This comes from the "college educated" pool being flooded with people who are under the impression that you HAVE to go to college to be successful - which is a lie. There is plenty of success to be had in the "trades": welding, plumbing, electrician, carpenter, general contracting, logging, etc. My husband didn't go to college, started a logging company, and now grosses over 500k easily. College degrees aren't everything, and I absolutely stand by the opinion that some are useless. |
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| acrodeo - 2014-05-23 7:05 PM I understand what everyone on here is saying but I will come from a students side. I did not ask nor could my mom pay for my college education. Our lives growing up were difficult and she couldn't save for our college. I graduated with a Bachelors degree in Ag Services and Development. Leaving college I now have around $50,000 in student loan debt. (I know that's small for some) When I graduated I couldn't find a job anywhere and definitely wasn't opposed to moving. I took a job working back where I worked while going through school. The pay was terrible but I couldn't find anything else. Making $20,000 a yr trying to pay for my home and my student loans which are like a house note themselves. I make it work. But responding to a few comments on here, some people are ridiculing someone's decision about their major. We are taught our whole lives to do what we enjoy and want to do for the rest of our lives. I thought Ag was suited for me. I knew jobs may be hard to find but IMO you have to do what you enjoy and sometimes student loans are the only option to get the education needed for certain jobs. I don't feel the parents should pay for everything and sometimes circumstances cause you to take out loans or do things you didn't plan. Now, I've found a better job and do well for myself but I don't think my generation is as bad as some say. The ones who are selfish and victimize themselves are the ones handed everything then asked to work etc... These parents knowingly gave up everything to better their children's future. I'm not saying I would do what they did or go about like that but let's not talk about them when they did what they felt they needed to do! I agree, a career you enjoy is worth every penny. That said, the choice for these children to go to private rather than much less expensive schools where they could get the same degree for a career that does not pay well, not a good choice. Yes, the parents did what they wanted so why are they complaining now about the debt? This is not a hard luck story of struggle, it is a story about choices made and not liking the outcome- personal responsibility. If you don't like the debt, don't take out the loans, go to a cheaper school. Our kids went to junior college for 2 years to save on costs then transferred to a university.
Edited by rodeomom3 2014-05-23 7:34 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Toy Story Fanatic
Posts: 4148
Location: Oregon | My son and daughter both attended college. However, I could not afford private school as a single Mom of 2-who by the way are 14 months apart in age. We did come up with a plan though. They started in Community College. Took all required courses that would transfer to the University that they would finish at. My Daughter ended up with a career before going to the University. My son with his Civil Engineering degree did just as we planned, took every class he could at the Community College-talked with both colleges to make sure it was an acceptable credit for his end goal. Community College we paid for totally between my son, myself and his Dad. We helped when he had to transfer to the University but it is so expensive he had to take out student loans. I think his end debt after graduation was $25,000. He had to attend 1 1/2 yrs while working full time to also chip in.
I feel the above parents have raised a generation that doesn't know how to live withing their means-but then again it appears they are just as bad. Sacrifices can be made but still attain the attempted goal. There are many BUT there are many also that do not do as those parents and their kids have done.
Edited to add my son had a job before he ever graduated and still works there to this day. And he does make very good money. He is now 30.
Edited by squeek 2014-05-23 7:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 188
Location: Under the Big Sky - Montana | I'm not part of the current generation, I graduated from college in 2000. Hard to believe it was that long ago. My parents couldn't afford college for any of us. I have a twin sister and a sister that is 3 years younger than we are so our college years were crammed pretty close together. I really wanted to go to one of the colleges that offered equestrian classes and had partial scholarships for some of them but the bottom line was I couldn't hardly afford community college then the state college I graduated from. I remember when my twin and I moved away to go to the state college we had almost no furniture or anything else and we'd put a few things on layaway at Kmart in a bigger town close by. It wasn't much, about $100.00. When our parents came to visit they actually stopped and paid for it and brought it up for us. That was a shock that they were able to pay for that.
Pursuing your dreams and pursuing a job to support those dreams are often two very different things. I was lucky. I had several scholarships, worked two jobs the entire time I was in college and graduated with high honors. I had $0 debt when I graduated. Today I am a home owner with very little other debt than my mortgage. I am doing most of what I wanted to do when I was younger. I don't own the newest or most of expensive of anything and I've gotten over the fact that I never will. No smartphone, car is 10 years old, just "upgraded" to an older horse trailer than what I had. The upgrade is over 15 years old. I have nice horses that are competitive and completely cared for and really wanting nothing. That is what is important.
In the case of the article, is it any wonder the children think it is ok to put themselves that deep in the financial hole when the parents are the ones who never taught them better? They were the role models. Not good ones, but models just the same. I see most of my friends and family raising their children with a work ethic and an understanding that money does not grow on trees so there is hope for future generations. Sometimes it is ok to tell your kids "no". I do it all the time. Mine all have four legs though  |
|
| |
|
A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | I believe goals are more important than dreams. You have to be realistic with your career. You can have dreams on the side of course. But you'll need the funding to chase them........ |
|
| |
|
 Nothing Comes Easy
Posts: 2353
Location: Texas | Delta Cowgirl - 2014-05-23 4:25 PM It amazes me how young adults sign up for college and take out such massive loans for degrees yet do not take time to research the type of job they can land with the degree, i.e. the types of jobs available, salaries, the likelihood of landing a job with the chosen degree, the future of jobs in that particular field, etc. It amazes me the parents do not discuss this with them. Or that someone doesn't discuss it with them. Or that they don't even think about it. Or maybe they do. And don't care if they can land a paying job or not. I don't know.
I went to a private university to avoid out of state tuition. I moved from CA to TX for school. I was offered scholarships to pay for half of my tuition which made it bare able and cost effective in the end. Community college in CA was not an option for me. You can't get into classes at the community college in my home town, it's too full. And financial aid isn't possible for what the government thinks of my family/home $.
During my time at this university, I studied nursing but along the way I took an intro to business class that had us research our degrees, prospect careers/jobs and salaries. We created a plan and knew what we were getting ourselves into. I think every freshman should do this.
I graduated last year. I did it all on my own, financial aid didnt help, nor did my parents. I have quite a bit of debt. My goal was to have less than my yearly salary in loans, seemed reasonable and I do make more than i owe thankfully. |
|
| |
|
 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I think they definitely had other options than the private schools!! Luckily I qualified for financial aid but did have to take out some loans. All in my name. I would go on but I don't want to be in debt up to my eyeballs. I see tuition prices and know I can't afford it. |
|
| |
|
Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | acrodeo - 2014-05-23 7:05 PM I understand what everyone on here is saying but I will come from a students side. I did not ask nor could my mom pay for my college education. Our lives growing up were difficult and she couldn't save for our college. I graduated with a Bachelors degree in Ag Services and Development. Leaving college I now have around $50,000 in student loan debt. (I know that's small for some) When I graduated I couldn't find a job anywhere and definitely wasn't opposed to moving. I took a job working back where I worked while going through school. The pay was terrible but I couldn't find anything else. Making $20,000 a yr trying to pay for my home and my student loans which are like a house note themselves. I make it work. But responding to a few comments on here, some people are ridiculing someone's decision about their major. We are taught our whole lives to do what we enjoy and want to do for the rest of our lives. I thought Ag was suited for me. I knew jobs may be hard to find but IMO you have to do what you enjoy and sometimes student loans are the only option to get the education needed for certain jobs. I don't feel the parents should pay for everything and sometimes circumstances cause you to take out loans or do things you didn't plan. Now, I've found a better job and do well for myself but I don't think my generation is as bad as some say. The ones who are selfish and victimize themselves are the ones handed everything then asked to work etc... These parents knowingly gave up everything to better their children's future. I'm not saying I would do what they did or go about like that but let's not talk about them when they did what they felt they needed to do!
You are NOT looking in the right areas if you are looking for agriculture. There are open jobs within Agronomy Sales ect. all over the US. Precision Ag is also huge as well as Ag lending. |
|
| |
|
Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | Do you mean like all the girls that I see at Career fairs looking for jobs and their major is Equine Science???? I'm sorry but that cracks me up. We all love our horses and want to be able to do whatever with them and go whereever with them but let's be reasonable. A degree in Equine Science isn't going to open very many doors to lucrative or at least decent paying jobs except for a select few positions. (as I'm zipping up my flame suit here) I really want to look at these girls ( I say girls because 98% are female) and ask what do you want to do when you grow up? |
|
| |
|
| I am so pleased that this article has been brought to our attention on BHW.
It is truly an outrage that institutions of higher learning are allowed to offer to its students a degree which, in the real world, is not worth the paper it is written on.
It is just another failure of this administration and congress should convene a hearing to look into this matter. At the least we need a rule, a law, maybe a constitutional amendment to not only put in place some limits to the outrageous cost of a useless education, but to demand that citizens are not allowed to chose to be stupid.
I also read that the father drives a Buick, shameful!! |
|
| |
|
 Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | IB1UKNO - 2014-05-24 2:25 PM I am so pleased that this article has been brought to our attention on BHW. It is truly an outrage that institutions of higher learning are allowed to offer to its students a degree which, in the real world, is not worth the paper it is written on. It is just another failure of this administration and congress should convene a hearing to look into this matter. At the least we need a rule, a law, maybe a constitutional amendment to not only put in place some limits to the outrageous cost of a useless education, but to demand that citizens are not allowed to chose to be stupid. I also read that the father drives a Buick, shameful!!
You're funny! snickering I just 'knew' your response would be 'good' and you proved me right! Now really more Government is what is needed in making personal decisions. Yeah right. Also, are you even familiar with or aware of how a Constitutional Amendment is created and accepted? |
|
| |
|
 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| WTF is music therapy?
Edited by TXBO 2014-05-24 3:58 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | foundation horse - 2014-05-24 3:03 PM IB1UKNO - 2014-05-24 2:25 PM I am so pleased that this article has been brought to our attention on BHW. It is truly an outrage that institutions of higher learning are allowed to offer to its students a degree which, in the real world, is not worth the paper it is written on. It is just another failure of this administration and congress should convene a hearing to look into this matter. At the least we need a rule, a law, maybe a constitutional amendment to not only put in place some limits to the outrageous cost of a useless education, but to demand that citizens are not allowed to chose to be stupid. I also read that the father drives a Buick, shameful!! You're funny! snickering I just 'knew' your response would be 'good' and you proved me right! Now really more Government is what is needed in making personal decisions. Yeah right. Also, are you even familiar with or aware of how a Constitutional Amendment is created and accepted?
Oh....my stars........that statement made me REALLY laugh outloud...... |
|
| |
|
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | TXBO - 2014-05-24 3:56 PM
WTF is music therapy?
I BELIEVE it is something they do with children/adults with special needs, for various reasons. |
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| acrodeo - 2014-05-23 7:05 PM I understand what everyone on here is saying but I will come from a students side. I did not ask nor could my mom pay for my college education. Our lives growing up were difficult and she couldn't save for our college. I graduated with a Bachelors degree in Ag Services and Development. Leaving college I now have around $50,000 in student loan debt. (I know that's small for some) When I graduated I couldn't find a job anywhere and definitely wasn't opposed to moving. I took a job working back where I worked while going through school. The pay was terrible but I couldn't find anything else. Making $20,000 a yr trying to pay for my home and my student loans which are like a house note themselves. I make it work. But responding to a few comments on here, some people are ridiculing someone's decision about their major. We are taught our whole lives to do what we enjoy and want to do for the rest of our lives. I thought Ag was suited for me. I knew jobs may be hard to find but IMO you have to do what you enjoy and sometimes student loans are the only option to get the education needed for certain jobs. I don't feel the parents should pay for everything and sometimes circumstances cause you to take out loans or do things you didn't plan. Now, I've found a better job and do well for myself but I don't think my generation is as bad as some say. The ones who are selfish and victimize themselves are the ones handed everything then asked to work etc... These parents knowingly gave up everything to better their children's future. I'm not saying I would do what they did or go about like that but let's not talk about them when they did what they felt they needed to do!
This was a "want" not a need, big difference. |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | docschic - 2014-05-24 1:01 PM Do you mean like all the girls that I see at Career fairs looking for jobs and their major is Equine Science???? I'm sorry but that cracks me up. We all love our horses and want to be able to do whatever with them and go whereever with them but let's be reasonable. A degree in Equine Science isn't going to open very many doors to lucrative or at least decent paying jobs except for a select few positions. (as I'm zipping up my flame suit here) I really want to look at these girls ( I say girls because 98% are female) and ask what do you want to do when you grow up?
I started out thinking I wanted to major in equine science. Haha. Luckily I wised up by HS graduation and had switched to Ag business. I'm like you, anyone who wants to work in Ag and can't find a job isn't looking in the right places. |
|
| |
|
 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I am drowning in student loans... ($500/mo) I know I know it could be worse. My parents didnt qualify for anything and I was the 3rd kid to go through school. I started at a community college and then transfered those into another school for my bachelors. I paid all my summer classes, books, etc out of my pocket. I worked full time and went to school full time for my education. I am very proud of it. I am still trying to get a job in my field but i continue to volunteer on my days off to try and get a leg up.
Now what gets me, is as I work my butt off there are other people getting it handed to them. An old friend of mine, is a single Mom. She lives for $17/mo (no typo there) and gets all college free. Books too. She then gets to sell her books after the semester. She's never worked a day in her life and her Uncle told me shes surpassed me in schooling and shes gonna get a better job than I ever could. Shes going on to get her masters in Criminal Justice (hasnt started the program yet). I have my bachelors right now so essentially we have the same degree. My two years at the community college gave me a A.S paralegal degree also. He said shes been in school 6 years... yea well not my fault it took her 6 years and not 4. its not just my generation its people like him who support those living off our assistance programs.
How do people expect to get jobs without work experience??!!!
Rant over...
Edited by stayceem 2014-05-24 10:53 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Regular
Posts: 92
Location: here there and everywhere! | I was smart.....Got accepted to a local University but still couldnt decided what the hell to do with myself!! So I dropped out a few months before I was to start. My way of thinking was why the hell am I going to spend 30G a year (i too didnt qualify for financial aid) and get some dumb degree!
About 6 years out of high school I landed a good job at a pharmaceutical company that paid full tuition so long as you passed. I got an associates in Biological Science but hey I'm debt free!!
Edited by SmokeNMirrors 2014-05-25 1:25 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | I'm drowning in student loans as well. Why? a) my parents make too much to qualify for financial aid and b) they didn't save anything up because a family member was supposed to pay for everything and well... he didn't (that's a whole 'nother can of worms). Funny thing is I will come out with a freaking BA in HISTORY. I went to college for Ag Business, realized I didn't really love it as much as I thought I would and I did really well at the Ag courses and accounting but everything else (if I wanted my degree I would have had to transfer to a University and take chem, bio, math, calc and there is no way I could do that. No way) I hated. I didn't have a farm anymore to come back to so I went to University. Why a history degree- because I like it, I'm good at it and I need a piece of paper. Do I know I can get absolutely nothing with this degree? Yup. My future plans are either military or law enforcement and I just need a degree! If I would have done it over again, I would have got the Canadian Forces to pay for my education and did it that way but I only have 2 years left so a little late on that one so I will just go Direct Entry Officer.
As far as taking out a second mortgage/loan for a wedding- are you freaking kidding me?! My plans are to elope or go to Vegas. I told my parents if they really wanted to pay for a wedding they can buy me a nice horse instead. I have no desire to have a big wedding, or traditional wedding at that. |
|
| |
|
 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | stayceem - 2014-05-24 9:51 PM I am drowning in student loans... ($500/mo) I know I know it could be worse. My parents didnt qualify for anything and I was the 3rd kid to go through school. I started at a community college and then transfered those into another school for my bachelors. I paid all my summer classes, books, etc out of my pocket. I worked full time and went to school full time for my education. I am very proud of it. I am still trying to get a job in my field but i continue to volunteer on my days off to try and get a leg up. Now what gets me, is as I work my butt off there are other people getting it handed to them. An old friend of mine, is a single Mom. She lives for $17/mo (no typo there) and gets all college free. Books too. She then gets to sell her books after the semester. She's never worked a day in her life and her Uncle told me shes surpassed me in schooling and shes gonna get a better job than I ever could. Shes going on to get her masters in Criminal Justice (hasnt started the program yet). I have my bachelors right now so essentially we have the same degree. My two years at the community college gave me a A.S paralegal degree also. He said shes been in school 6 years... yea well not my fault it took her 6 years and not 4. its not just my generation its people like him who support those living off our assistance programs. How do people expect to get jobs without work experience??!!! Rant over...
ugg don't get me started on the how we encourge girls to have babies without daddies. It is disgusting to me to watch single moms get all the hand outs instead of encourgaing families to be together. And before you flame me I know alot of time being a single mom isn't a choice but alot of the times it is. |
|
| |
|
| foundation horse - 2014-05-24 3:03 PM
IB1UKNO - 2014-05-24 2:25 PM I am so pleased that this article has been brought to our attention on BHW. It is truly an outrage that institutions of higher learning are allowed to offer to its students a degree which, in the real world, is not worth the paper it is written on. It is just another failure of this administration and congress should convene a hearing to look into this matter. At the least we need a rule, a law, maybe a constitutional amendment to not only put in place some limits to the outrageous cost of a useless education, but to demand that citizens are not allowed to chose to be stupid. I also read that the father drives a Buick, shameful!!
You're funny! snickering I just 'knew' your response would be 'good' and you proved me right! Now really more Government is what is needed in making personal decisions. Yeah right. Also, are you even familiar with or aware of how a Constitutional Amendment is created and accepted?
Congratulations, Gwyneth would be so proud.
You have succeeded in uncoupling from your consciousness! |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | IB1UKNO - 2014-05-25 10:04 AM foundation horse - 2014-05-24 3:03 PM IB1UKNO - 2014-05-24 2:25 PM I am so pleased that this article has been brought to our attention on BHW. It is truly an outrage that institutions of higher learning are allowed to offer to its students a degree which, in the real world, is not worth the paper it is written on. It is just another failure of this administration and congress should convene a hearing to look into this matter. At the least we need a rule, a law, maybe a constitutional amendment to not only put in place some limits to the outrageous cost of a useless education, but to demand that citizens are not allowed to chose to be stupid. I also read that the father drives a Buick, shameful!! You're funny! snickering I just 'knew' your response would be 'good' and you proved me right! Now really more Government is what is needed in making personal decisions. Yeah right. Also, are you even familiar with or aware of how a Constitutional Amendment is created and accepted? Congratulations, Gwyneth would be so proud. You have succeeded in uncoupling from your consciousness!
FH, I think you've been had.  |
|
| |
|
Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Totally agree on the job-seeking person with an Ag degree - it shocks me that you can't find a job.
I graduated with a BS in Ag Econ and an AS in Agronomy, I don't know anyone I graduated with who didnt have a job maximum 6 months after graduation. Granted that was 4 years ago now but the Ag industry is still very strong and seeking young talent. I think there's more to the story.
Sometimes what you like to do and what you need to do are two different things. Kids aren't taught to choose a career wisely anymore. My family saw the writing on the wall and really tried to push me towards a pharmacy degree. I knew it wasn't for me. I looked at equine programs but hated the job outlooks and pay. I have (like all of us) a hobby that is a lot more fun when you have a comfortable amt of cash to support it. When you can load up the trailer and go - whether it's to a local play day or a big race and know you'll have the gas to get home even if you don't pick up a check. I can put u with quite a bit of BS at work if I know I'm loading the trailer up on Friday to escape for the weekend.
Kids are graduating high school with zero concept of what it means to support themselves and what real life costs. I had a car payment at 16 and a job. My parents weren't going to let me fail, but they weren't going to sugar coat real life like year parents did. They had saved some for college and helped out, but I also helped out with scholarships and 2-3 part time jobs. I ended up with a couple small loans. I can't wait until they are gone, should be next summer, 5 years after graduating. |
|
| |
|
Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | Chance Of Rein - 2014-05-23 8:20 PM
I'm not part of the current generation, I graduated from college in 2000. Hard to believe it was that long ago. My parents couldn't afford college for any of us. I have a twin sister and a sister that is 3 years younger than we are so our college years were crammed pretty close together. I really wanted to go to one of the colleges that offered equestrian classes and had partial scholarships for some of them but the bottom line was I couldn't hardly afford community college then the state college I graduated from. I remember when my twin and I moved away to go to the state college we had almost no furniture or anything else and we'd put a few things on layaway at Kmart in a bigger town close by. It wasn't much, about $100.00. When our parents came to visit they actually stopped and paid for it and brought it up for us. That was a shock that they were able to pay for that. Pursuing your dreams and pursuing a job to support those dreams are often two very different things. I was lucky. I had several scholarships, worked two jobs the entire time I was in college and graduated with high honors. I had $0 debt when I graduated. Today I am a home owner with very little other debt than my mortgage. I am doing most of what I wanted to do when I was younger. I don't own the newest or most of expensive of anything and I've gotten over the fact that I never will. No smartphone, car is 10 years old, just "upgraded" to an older horse trailer than what I had. The upgrade is over 15 years old. I have nice horses that are competitive and completely cared for and really wanting nothing. That is what is important. In the case of the article, is it any wonder the children think it is ok to put themselves that deep in the financial hole when the parents are the ones who never taught them better? They were the role models. Not good ones, but models just the same. I see most of my friends and family raising their children with a work ethic and an understanding that money does not grow on trees so there is hope for future generations. Sometimes it is ok to tell your kids "no". I do it all the time. Mine all have four legs though
This^^^^
I've never understood why parents/ children feel as though it were the parents responsibility to put them through college. If you can help, sure, by all means but to feel obligated is beyond me. We do our children no favors by making things easy for them. |
|
| |
|
 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | I still don't get why some kids are EXPECTING parents to pay for THEIR college experience for THEIR future. When what they are usually paying for is a party animal and a lot of missed classes.  |
|
| |
|
| Idk... I know at least 4 people with MS and at least 5 with BS in Aminal Science that were unable to find jobs and ended up working in other fields as a result. Might be geographic location but here any Ag/animal science/equine science degree is basically useless. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-05-23 5:12 PM
I will add: I feel better all the time about waiting a few years to start college. My parents did not pay one red cent on my tuition or living expenses. I chose a major that got me into the field I knew I wanted (Criminal Justice Admin). I now earn six figures and my student loan payment is around $200/ mo. Not bad for coming from nothing. Please people, don't go into hock to avoid teaching your kids hard work and responsibility.
ETA: I eloped to Maui and married the man of my dreams. No resentment over my parents not mortgaging their home for my princess day.
I did this, too. Got an AA in Admin of Justice and went to work for the county. Went back to school while employed by the government and was paid well and completed a BA in business at our state college. My payments were $300 and I will be finished with them at the end of this year.
My parents gave me $500 toward my wedding. In total it cost $3k. We have no debt from it and even though it wasn't fancy...apparently it was the best wedding our town has ever seen.
My mother told me upfront since I was 10 that she had no $$ to send me to a fancy college so I better get a scholarship or find another option. When it was time there were no "unicorns and rainbows" about what my decisions needed to be.
As a parent I would "like" to be able to pay for my kid's college...but in reality after the husband being laid off, selling off almost all of our possessions and me carrying the family for a year, we don't have that option. Sorry kids, that's called a lesson in life. It's not always a Disney ending. |
|
| |
|
 I Love My Mares!
Posts: 1613
Location: Moved to Montana | TXBO - 2014-05-24 2:56 PM
WTF is music therapy?
It is a promising therapy for Alzheimer's and tbi patients using music to help the brain work in a more ordered manner
It has also shown good results with autistic children basically music is used to induce specific brAin patterns and help with memory and emotional response |
|
| |
|
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | bscanchaser - 2014-05-25 11:11 AM
Idk... I know at least 4 people with MS and at least 5 with BS in Aminal Science that were unable to find jobs and ended up working in other fields as a result. Might be geographic location but here any Ag/animal science/equine science degree is basically useless.
An animal science degree and an AgBusiness degree (of whatever sort) are VERY different. Wth are you supposed to do with an Animal Science degree besides some sort of veterinary career? Right, not much. An AgBusimess degree is just as versatile and marketable in the real world as any other business degree - it just has a more focused area, but even then - if you spin it right - you can get a job with a company that may not necessarily be the traditional "Ag" that people picture. There's also an ENTIRE WEBSITE devoted to Ag jobs (http://www.agcareers.com/). |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | svincent - 2014-05-25 11:50 AM bscanchaser - 2014-05-25 11:11 AM Idk... I know at least 4 people with MS and at least 5 with BS in Aminal Science that were unable to find jobs and ended up working in other fields as a result. Might be geographic location but here any Ag/animal science/equine science degree is basically useless. An animal science degree and an AgBusiness degree (of whatever sort ) are VERY different. Wth are you supposed to do with an Animal Science degree besides some sort of veterinary career? Right, not much. An AgBusimess degree is just as versatile and marketable in the real world as any other business degree - it just has a more focused area, but even then - if you spin it right - you can get a job with a company that may not necessarily be the traditional "Ag" that people picture. There's also an ENTIRE WEBSITE devoted to Ag jobs (http://www.agcareers.com/ ).
All the animal science people I knew either went to the USDA, extension, or line managers for Tyson. Ag business and agronomy are a lot more in demand. Weed science, plant pathology, things along those lines will have zero problem finding work in their field. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
| OMG...this is ridiculous!! Both parents work and from the sounds of it have decent careers that pay well and they have no college savings for their children nor any retirement savings. Talk about not teaching your children very good money habits. Then they finance a wedding by using equity from their home?! This is a mess. And then to top it off all but one child goes to a private school?! Bottom line...This sounds like a couple who has spent everything they made and haven't made good financial decisions. Now they're blaming the education system and lack of funding available for people to go to college on their problems. I think there are problems with the cost of higher education, but ultimately it is the individual who wants higher education to be responsible for how it's going to get paid.
I understand what people are saying about doing something they like for a career, but sometimes that is not practical. Music therapy at a private school? Oh geez! I don't love what I do, but I make good money, so I can do the things I enjoy. And my husband doesn't love his job (especially having the plant he works in explode), but he makes great money and they offer a fantastic retirement and pension. This allows us to do the things we love to do and have nice things. The doing something you love for work is a lie. Sometimes you have to look at it from a practical standpoint. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
| docschic - 2014-05-24 11:01 AM Do you mean like all the girls that I see at Career fairs looking for jobs and their major is Equine Science???? I'm sorry but that cracks me up. We all love our horses and want to be able to do whatever with them and go whereever with them but let's be reasonable. A degree in Equine Science isn't going to open very many doors to lucrative or at least decent paying jobs except for a select few positions. (as I'm zipping up my flame suit here) I really want to look at these girls ( I say girls because 98% are female) and ask what do you want to do when you grow up?
 |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Dave Ramsey would have a conniption fit over these people and their poor decisions. Student debt is HORRIBLE and it doesn't go away - wow!
I worked my TAIL off to get to college and had it paid for with scholarships while working a job in undergrad and a fellowship in grad school. I also, did NOT choose to go the private school route or the expensive route - even though I was accepted to two VERY prestigious and expensive schools.
I am saddened that my generation is learning to be selfish and expect their parents to pay for everything. I cannot thank my parents enough for teaching all of us work ethic and responsibility with money and our futures. WOW. Just WOW. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2457
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-05-25 2:20 PM svincent - 2014-05-25 11:50 AM bscanchaser - 2014-05-25 11:11 AM Idk... I know at least 4 people with MS and at least 5 with BS in Aminal Science that were unable to find jobs and ended up working in other fields as a result. Might be geographic location but here any Ag/animal science/equine science degree is basically useless. An animal science degree and an AgBusiness degree (of whatever sort ) are VERY different. Wth are you supposed to do with an Animal Science degree besides some sort of veterinary career? Right, not much. An AgBusimess degree is just as versatile and marketable in the real world as any other business degree - it just has a more focused area, but even then - if you spin it right - you can get a job with a company that may not necessarily be the traditional "Ag" that people picture. There's also an ENTIRE WEBSITE devoted to Ag jobs (http://www.agcareers.com/ ).
As an ani sci major with a research emphasis ... Yup - USDA, extension, line managers for kill plants, and feed lot managers. Ag business and agronomy are VERY different. Also - An sci production is VERY different from the An sci research majors that are offered through the midwest. I think most of those are jump off majors to put you in position for grad school or a professional school of sorts. JMO. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2457
| IB1UKNO - 2014-05-24 2:25 PM
I am so pleased that this article has been brought to our attention on BHW.
It is truly an outrage that institutions of higher learning are allowed to offer to its students a degree which, in the real world, is not worth the paper it is written on.
It is just another failure of this administration and congress should convene a hearing to look into this matter. At the least we need a rule, a law, maybe a constitutional amendment to not only put in place some limits to the outrageous cost of a useless education, but to demand that citizens are not allowed to chose to be stupid.
I also read that the father drives a Buick, shameful!!
But what about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY???? Shouldn't the person obtaining the degree know better?? Is it not somewhat their own fault for agreeing to PAY the astronomical price the institution is charging for a degree that won't merit a job that will pay back the loan in a decent amount of time?
Gov't has zero responsibility for your own poor decisions with your finances. That is YOUR decision, not the gov'ts and it sure as heck shouldn't bail you out after you choose that poor decision.
JMO. |
|
| |
|
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I'm in college now…have been since 2007 between my BS in Biology and now vet school, with a few breaks in between.
First off- I went to a junior college for two years. All of my friends in high school looked down on that and thought I would be cursed over it. I remember one of our favorite teachers senior year told our class he went to a junior college and some of my friends were so disappointed over hearing it. But I transferred with a 3.8 GPA to TAMU-Kingsville, and got a couple scholarships out of it. I could have gone to A&M for my BS degree but TAMUK was cheaper and smaller.
When I graduated from TAMUK I had about 30,000 in debt over those two years. I took a semester to work at a school and made enough money to pay for summer classes when I went back to get my pre reqs for vet school. I also sold a horse to pay for a semester finishing up those pre requisites.
The spring semester I signed up for Tuesday Thursday classes in Kinsgsville, and commuted 3 hours one way for those classes and came home because the high school needed me to long term sub for a chemistry teacher. So that semester I would wake up early on Tues and Thurs to get to school, then worked M-W-F for the school.
I got accepted into vet school and doubled my student loan debt in one year. I will probably graduate vet school with about $150,000 in debt, but thankfully most of it will be federal loans and not private (my loans from my bachelor's degree are mostly private). I will start out making $50,000 a year if I am lucky. BUT- I have the potential to expand my career as much as I want. many vets on average make about 80,000-100,000 a year. Then you get into practice owning, or finding a niche in a particular field…and I could potentially make more.
I catch a lot of flack from people because my boyfriend and I have been dating for 7 years and haven't gotten engaged yet. He and I both got our bachelor's together, he just completed his master's degree, and is starting his PhD this summer. He has ZERO college debt. He knows how much debt I am going to have… the last thing we need to do right now is get married. We won't be able to live together for the next two years anyway, and neither one of us want to put our parents into debt over a wedding right now. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
| casualdust07 - 2014-05-27 7:47 AM I'm in college now…have been since 2007 between my BS in Biology and now vet school, with a few breaks in between. First off- I went to a junior college for two years. All of my friends in high school looked down on that and thought I would be cursed over it. I remember one of our favorite teachers senior year told our class he went to a junior college and some of my friends were so disappointed over hearing it. But I transferred with a 3.8 GPA to TAMU-Kingsville, and got a couple scholarships out of it. I could have gone to A&M for my BS degree but TAMUK was cheaper and smaller. When I graduated from TAMUK I had about 30,000 in debt over those two years. I took a semester to work at a school and made enough money to pay for summer classes when I went back to get my pre reqs for vet school. I also sold a horse to pay for a semester finishing up those pre requisites. The spring semester I signed up for Tuesday Thursday classes in Kinsgsville, and commuted 3 hours one way for those classes and came home because the high school needed me to long term sub for a chemistry teacher. So that semester I would wake up early on Tues and Thurs to get to school, then worked M-W-F for the school. I got accepted into vet school and doubled my student loan debt in one year. I will probably graduate vet school with about $150,000 in debt, but thankfully most of it will be federal loans and not private (my loans from my bachelor's degree are mostly private). I will start out making $50,000 a year if I am lucky. BUT- I have the potential to expand my career as much as I want. many vets on average make about 80,000-100,000 a year. Then you get into practice owning, or finding a niche in a particular field…and I could potentially make more. I catch a lot of flack from people because my boyfriend and I have been dating for 7 years and haven't gotten engaged yet. He and I both got our bachelor's together, he just completed his master's degree, and is starting his PhD this summer. He has ZERO college debt. He knows how much debt I am going to have… the last thing we need to do right now is get married. We won't be able to live together for the next two years anyway, and neither one of us want to put our parents into debt over a wedding right now.
Sounds like you have been responsible in borrowing for your education. You've been willing to work and make sacrifices to do what you want for a career. You have made some wise decisions and most who go to vet school will no doubt come out with some debt. The amount of debt you will have seems reasonable for someone coming out ready to practice veterinary medicine. Very different from the individuals mentioned in the article. Good job and keep up the good work!! |
|
| |
|
You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Thanks! And that's exactly right… no way I would go that far into debt without the chance to pay it back.
I also do not understand why people think there's someone else to blame over all their debt. When you sign for the loan, it's understood its a loan to be paid back… not debt to cry over afterward and expect someone to forgive all of it. |
|
| |
|
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| toomanycolts - 2014-05-25 11:27 AM TXBO - 2014-05-24 2:56 PM WTF is music therapy? It is a promising therapy for Alzheimer's and tbi patients using music to help the brain work in a more ordered manner It has also shown good results with autistic children basically music is used to induce specific brAin patterns and help with memory and emotional response
Interesting. Thanks.
|
|
| |
|
 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | TXBO - 2014-05-27 11:33 AM toomanycolts - 2014-05-25 11:27 AM TXBO - 2014-05-24 2:56 PM WTF is music therapy? It is a promising therapy for Alzheimer's and tbi patients using music to help the brain work in a more ordered manner It has also shown good results with autistic children basically music is used to induce specific brAin patterns and help with memory and emotional response
It's pretty amazing really. We watched this clip in an Aging and Communication class I took this month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyZQf0p73QM
Edited by Murphy 2014-05-27 10:45 AM
|
|
| |
|
Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I can't understand why EVERYBODY doesn't go to a Jr. college first. Who cares about the "prestige" of going to a 4-yr school the whole time! My first 2 years of school were "free" except living expenses due to sports/music scholarships and all of my credits transferred right to K-State. |
|
| |
|
Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Griz - 2014-05-27 12:11 PM I can't understand why EVERYBODY doesn't go to a Jr. college first. Who cares about the "prestige" of going to a 4-yr school the whole time! My first 2 years of school were "free" except living expenses due to sports/music scholarships and all of my credits transferred right to K-State.
I was incredibly lucky and was offered a full scholarship to a private college in Louisville, KY. It's one of the best colleges in Kentucky, and one of the most expensive. If it wasn't for that scholarship, there's no way I could have afforded to go there. I would not go into thousands of dollars in debt to go there. I very much appreciate my experience, and I will tell you that when people ask me where I graduated, and I say the name of the college, people perk up. I work in recruiting and it may be vain, but prestige "can" make a difference. We hire a lot of Cornell, Booth, and Kellogg people. |
|
| |
|
 Ima Fickle Fan
Posts: 3547
Location: Texas | To those currently in school who say they aren't eligible for financial aid, are you specifically referring to grants and assistance that doesn't have to be paid back? Because financial aid isn't limited to that. It also includes student loans, which anyone can get.
I have student loans that I am working on. Between my bachelor's and master's, it adds up to about 30K. I am also in the dissertation phase of my doctorate degree. With that said, my parents didn't help with squat. I worked multiple jobs, got scholarships, and took out loans to make it work. Never did I expect my parents to foot the bill.
I also work for an ag entity. For those saying there are no jobs that pay well in agriculture, I'm calling b.s. The group I work for is also housed on a college campus. People do not realize how much scholarship money is available and goes unclaimed because students don't want to write a short essay.
The people in this article are stupid. You can't fix stupid and legislation has never made stupid people smart. When my boys get older, they will job shadow people before ever starting college. That will be part of their research to determine what they want to do. Fortunately my parents have wisened up about college expenses. (I was the first of my siblings to go to college.) So luckily for my kis, the grandparents are putting money in savings to help.
Is the price of education a problem? Dang right. But the contribution from the state decreases every year. Because of that, the costs to attend go up. However, where there is a will, there is a way. |
|
| |
|
 On the Countdown
Posts: 2934
Location: Texas | aggiejudger - 2014-05-27 12:00 PM To those currently in school who say they aren't eligible for financial aid, are you specifically referring to grants and assistance that doesn't have to be paid back? Because financial aid isn't limited to that. It also includes student loans, which anyone can get.
I have student loans that I am working on. Between my bachelor's and master's, it adds up to about 30K. I am also in the dissertation phase of my doctorate degree. With that said, my parents didn't help with squat. I worked multiple jobs, got scholarships, and took out loans to make it work. Never did I expect my parents to foot the bill.
I also work for an ag entity. For those saying there are no jobs that pay well in agriculture, I'm calling b.s. The group I work for is also housed on a college campus. People do not realize how much scholarship money is available and goes unclaimed because students don't want to write a short essay.
The people in this article are stupid. You can't fix stupid and legislation has never made stupid people smart. When my boys get older, they will job shadow people before ever starting college. That will be part of their research to determine what they want to do. Fortunately my parents have wisened up about college expenses. (I was the first of my siblings to go to college.) So luckily for my kis, the grandparents are putting money in savings to help.
Is the price of education a problem? Dang right. But the contribution from the state decreases every year. Because of that, the costs to attend go up. However, where there is a will, there is a way.
When I went back to add my teaching certification to my degree. I was told I had to much in savings and my parents made to much. I looked for grants and stuff with no luck, I didn't know where to look and I know I didn't. My semester was going to be close to 5k and the loan people said they would give me 2k... UM no!!! I didn't need their money since they didn't want to help.
I am very fortunate that my parents saved and I am one of the lucky few that don't have student loans, but I never asked for them to pay for it. Education is something very big in my family and going to college was never NOT an option.
Many of todays kids though want everything for free or getting something for doing nothing. I see it every day. They aren't grateful for anything they have it seems. They live in the "ME" world and if it doesn't revolve around them they could careless. Sad to say but where we are headed with this generation it is scary! I will get off my soapbox... |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Griz - 2014-05-27 11:11 AM I can't understand why EVERYBODY doesn't go to a Jr. college first. Who cares about the "prestige" of going to a 4-yr school the whole time! My first 2 years of school were "free" except living expenses due to sports/music scholarships and all of my credits transferred right to K-State.
I had a full ride for 4 years scholarship to a 4 year public university that was only 40 minutes away. And I was able to start taking ag classes my freshman year, which would not have been possible at any of the community colleges. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2457
| Griz - 2014-05-27 11:11 AM
I can't understand why EVERYBODY doesn't go to a Jr. college first. Who cares about the "prestige" of going to a 4-yr school the whole time! My first 2 years of school were "free" except living expenses due to sports/music scholarships and all of my credits transferred right to K-State.
not everyone NEEDS to go jr college or CC and the credits do not always transfer.
I agree that it is a good option for many but, I had scholarships AND worked my way through college. I came out with no student loans and my parents did not help me either. The caveat here ... I WORKED for it and chose my path with guidance from my parents. I didn't choose to accept the invitations to attend major, prestigious 4 year institutions. But I did attend a decent sized 4 year state university.
I think many in my generation don't know how to work for something ... for various reasons. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 937
| I can understand wanting your children to have the best education possible, but at some point they need to just own up to their financial planning mistakes. They definitely could have researched colleges to have found better deals I'm sure.
I can't even imagine being that far in debt. I've gradauted with my associates and bachelors with no debt, but am going to have to take out about 25,000 in loans for my masters and I hyperventilate thinking about it!!
My generation just has no concept of how to make more money than you spend!
Edited by sourkiss378 2014-05-27 2:00 PM
|
|
| |
|
You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I like junior colleges. the key is, know what university you want to transfer to, read their policies on transfer guidelines and what will and won't transfer. and make GOOD grades. I don't blame a 4 year university for not accepting Cs or Ds from a junior college. ( I know Cs will transfer but sometimes for your major universities want better)
I looked at my degree plan, read what they would and would not accept, and didn't take classes I knew wouldn't transfer. I was able to get two full years out of it and every single credit transferred.
One example I will put- organic chemistry is offered at the junior college near me. A&M specified on their website that for vet school they wouldn't accept O-chem from a junior college. So I didn't waste my time taking it there, I took it at TAMUK. Had I not read all the fine print, I would have found myself retaking a year of organic chemistry! |
|
| |
|
Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | Griz - 2014-05-27 11:11 AM I can't understand why EVERYBODY doesn't go to a Jr. college first. Who cares about the "prestige" of going to a 4-yr school the whole time! My first 2 years of school were "free" except living expenses due to sports/music scholarships and all of my credits transferred right to K-State.
If a person KNOWS what they are going to go into and are set on it then I don't see the need for a community or jr. college. If a person is up in the air then going to a jr./community is the way to get the non-major requists done (math, laungauge, English ect.) Also, I think, if the oppertunity presents itself that high schoolers should be taking more college credit courses if they can manage it.
|
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I work at a community college and love it. My husband attended one for two years and so did my mom for a nursing degree. The great thing about them is how affordable they are. But if someone knows they are going to a university, they should get their transferable basics out of the way. I see a lot of students end up spending a lot of money or getting a lot of loans getting an associate's they don't need. They may be at the community college for 4-5 years just to get basics. Now if that's all someone can afford or they work full time or they are behind in terms of needing to take developmental classes, then that's different. I see a lot of 18 year olds with an idea of what they want to do and the college they want to attend get trapped into pursuing classes they don't need and can't transfer and being here two or three semesters longer than necessary. As they say, get in, get your stuff, and get out. |
|
| |
|
Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| oija - 2014-05-27 6:53 PM
I work at a community college and love it. My husband attended one for two years and so did my mom for a nursing degree. The great thing about them is how affordable they are. But if someone knows they are going to a university, they should get their transferable basics out of the way. I see a lot of students end up spending a lot of money or getting a lot of loans getting an associate's they don't need. They may be at the community college for 4-5 years just to get basics. Now if that's all someone can afford or they work full time or they are behind in terms of needing to take developmental classes, then that's different. I see a lot of 18 year olds with an idea of what they want to do and the college they want to attend get trapped into pursuing classes they don't need and can't transfer and being here two or three semesters longer than necessary. As they say, get in, get your stuff, and get out.
I think people look down on "community" colleges but I can tell you there is so much more behind finding success in your career. I took my 2 year at a community college for Paralegal and I asked many attorneys their thoughts on hiring someone with a degree from a community college or say Hamline (fancy, expensive private college). They said that doesnt deter them or impress them one way or another. Ultimately its the skills, work history and other factors that land you the job you want. |
|
| |
|
Toy Story Fanatic
Posts: 4148
Location: Oregon | Here it was $600 semester compared to $6000 semester for Community versus University. My son knew what he wanted to do(civil engineer), It was cheaper to take the prerequisites at Community College that would transfer to the University.At the end his diploma is from the University. But he saved a lot of money by opting to get credits for classes that would transfer for his end degree.
Edited by squeek 2014-05-27 9:29 PM
|
|
| |
|
Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| squeek - 2014-05-27 9:26 PM
Here it was $600 semester compared to $6000 semester for Community versus University. My son knew what he wanted to do(civil engineer), It was cheaper to take the prerequisites at Community College that would transfer to the University.At the end his diploma is from the University. But he saved a lot of money by opting to get credits for classes that would transfer for his end degree.
I did this also. The community college and the university had like a partnership so my two year paralegal transferred directly into a criminal justice bachelors. I essentially got two degrees in in 4 years. My A.S is from a community college but my B.A is from a University. |
|
| |
|
Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 12:44 PM Griz - 2014-05-27 11:11 AM I can't understand why EVERYBODY doesn't go to a Jr. college first. Who cares about the "prestige" of going to a 4-yr school the whole time! My first 2 years of school were "free" except living expenses due to sports/music scholarships and all of my credits transferred right to K-State. not everyone NEEDS to go jr college or CC and the credits do not always transfer. I agree that it is a good option for many but, I had scholarships AND worked my way through college. I came out with no student loans and my parents did not help me either. The caveat here ... I WORKED for it and chose my path with guidance from my parents. I didn't choose to accept the invitations to attend major, prestigious 4 year institutions. But I did attend a decent sized 4 year state university. I think many in my generation don't know how to work for something ... for various reasons.
I guess I was just very lucky. All my credits transferred and my first 2 years were "free." I WORKED all through college too though so I wouldn't have to pay loans for 25 years after graduation. - I still paid about 5 years after graduation. |
|
| |
|
Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| casualdust07 - 2014-05-27 2:16 PM I like junior colleges. the key is, know what university you want to transfer to, read their policies on transfer guidelines and what will and won't transfer. and make GOOD grades. I don't blame a 4 year university for not accepting Cs or Ds from a junior college. ( I know Cs will transfer but sometimes for your major universities want better) I looked at my degree plan, read what they would and would not accept, and didn't take classes I knew wouldn't transfer. I was able to get two full years out of it and every single credit transferred. One example I will put- organic chemistry is offered at the junior college near me. A&M specified on their website that for vet school they wouldn't accept O-chem from a junior college. So I didn't waste my time taking it there, I took it at TAMUK. Had I not read all the fine print, I would have found myself retaking a year of organic chemistry!
This - 100%. |
|
| |
|
 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | I think there is to much pressure to put kids through college. So many flunk out and are there not caring how they do because parents are footing the bill. I told mine that I wasn't a wise saver and they need to get good grades or figure out a way to get the scholarships etc. College is way over rated so many go and can't make squat when they get out. I think going to a trade school anymore is a wise choice. Same with weddings. I told my daughter I would pay so much to help and the rest is on her. She wanted to go all out and she paid for a lot of if. And I didn't go in debt over it. She figured it out and I am not in the poor house. |
|
| |
|
 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
Location: West Tennessee | TXBO - 2014-05-24 3:56 PM WTF is music therapy?
Someone probably already answered but I believe it's therapy for the mentally challenged be it the elderly with memory problems or children with learning disabilities.
Just to add -- I recently read an article about dance therapy and dementia patients & alledgedly, it's proving very valuable in memory therapy? I personally don't see anything wrong with these fields or therapies -- however, one needs to be realistic if chosing them for a career. Just like going to Vet school & expecting to have the earning potential of a medical doctor / it rarely happens. My understanding is that in a small animal practice in the city, the top of the earnings bracket is around 100 thousand.
I'll confess now that I didn't finish reading all the comments and maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses: but, I kind of read the point of the article as a warning more than whining or complaining? |
|
| |
|
 Baby Blue's
Posts: 7306
Location: Texas | stayceem - 2014-05-24 10:51 PM I am drowning in student loans... ($500/mo) I know I know it could be worse. My parents didnt qualify for anything and I was the 3rd kid to go through school. I started at a community college and then transfered those into another school for my bachelors. I paid all my summer classes, books, etc out of my pocket. I worked full time and went to school full time for my education. I am very proud of it. I am still trying to get a job in my field but i continue to volunteer on my days off to try and get a leg up. Now what gets me, is as I work my butt off there are other people getting it handed to them. An old friend of mine, is a single Mom. She lives for $17/mo (no typo there) and gets all college free. Books too. She then gets to sell her books after the semester. She's never worked a day in her life and her Uncle told me shes surpassed me in schooling and shes gonna get a better job than I ever could. Shes going on to get her masters in Criminal Justice (hasnt started the program yet). I have my bachelors right now so essentially we have the same degree. My two years at the community college gave me a A.S paralegal degree also. He said shes been in school 6 years... yea well not my fault it took her 6 years and not 4. its not just my generation its people like him who support those living off our assistance programs. How do people expect to get jobs without work experience??!!! Rant over...
I'm not able to do the math on this one. So, you went to jr college first, paid off your summer class expenses, worked full time, and you're STILL "swimming" in student loan debt for just 4 semesters at a university? What is your degree?
And I got a job with only 5 years of waitress experience - you get them when you receive a skill via college (engineering, teacher, etc).
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2457
| Griz - 2014-05-28 5:31 AM lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 12:44 PM Griz - 2014-05-27 11:11 AM I can't understand why EVERYBODY doesn't go to a Jr. college first. Who cares about the "prestige" of going to a 4-yr school the whole time! My first 2 years of school were "free" except living expenses due to sports/music scholarships and all of my credits transferred right to K-State. not everyone NEEDS to go jr college or CC and the credits do not always transfer. I agree that it is a good option for many but, I had scholarships AND worked my way through college. I came out with no student loans and my parents did not help me either. The caveat here ... I WORKED for it and chose my path with guidance from my parents. I didn't choose to accept the invitations to attend major, prestigious 4 year institutions. But I did attend a decent sized 4 year state university. I think many in my generation don't know how to work for something ... for various reasons.
Exactly - you did your homework and your credits transferred and you worked! Just like casualdust said ... she checked that the classes she was taking were going to transfer for the degree she was/is trying to obtain. I know many people that didn't do that and ended up with more debt and indecision when they tried to transfer to a state 4 year.
I guess it just bugs the heck out of me when people don't plan and then rely on others/parents/gov't to bail them out of a bad decision - like in the article - these people are so freakin' far in debt, I'm just amazed! |
|
| |
|
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7306
Location: Texas | The real issue with "this generation" is that nobody is poor anymore. I mean really poor -- not poor but wear Nikes, get manicures, drive a decent car, etc. It's honestly been years since I've actually met a poor person - you know, that works multiple jobs just to cover the bills. Just last week my daughter's friend's trailer burned down. I drove by it. Wow, even before the fire it was almost unlivable - both parents don't work. What in the world? You have TWO children to take care of and nobody has a job? The economy is pretty fantastic here so there is no excuse. None.
I grew up "for real poor." Single mom that worked multiple jobs and did whatever she could to not take a handout (never did). Pride's really hard to come by these days. College to me was a door to opportunity. Period. I knew it was necessary and I treated it that way. Growing up poor is quite the privilege once you make it to the other side. I worry about my own kids and how to teach them about fiscal responsibility. Nothing teaches a kid like actually not having money, you know?
Edited by bocephus's mama 2014-05-28 1:57 PM
|
|
| |
|
Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| bocephus's mama - 2014-05-28 9:01 AM
stayceem - 2014-05-24 10:51 PM I am drowning in student loans... ($500/mo) I know I know it could be worse. My parents didnt qualify for anything and I was the 3rd kid to go through school. I started at a community college and then transfered those into another school for my bachelors. I paid all my summer classes, books, etc out of my pocket. I worked full time and went to school full time for my education. I am very proud of it. I am still trying to get a job in my field but i continue to volunteer on my days off to try and get a leg up. Now what gets me, is as I work my butt off there are other people getting it handed to them. An old friend of mine, is a single Mom. She lives for $17/mo (no typo there) and gets all college free. Books too. She then gets to sell her books after the semester. She's never worked a day in her life and her Uncle told me shes surpassed me in schooling and shes gonna get a better job than I ever could. Shes going on to get her masters in Criminal Justice (hasnt started the program yet). I have my bachelors right now so essentially we have the same degree. My two years at the community college gave me a A.S paralegal degree also. He said shes been in school 6 years... yea well not my fault it took her 6 years and not 4. its not just my generation its people like him who support those living off our assistance programs. How do people expect to get jobs without work experience??!!! Rant over...
I'm not able to do the math on this one. So, you went to jr college first, paid off your summer class expenses, worked full time, and you're STILL "swimming" in student loan debt for just 4 semesters at a university? What is your degree?
And I got a job with only 5 years of waitress experience - you get them when you receive a skill via college (engineering, teacher, etc).
Yes. I worked full time but to pay for my living expenses, car, my horse etc. I Paid for summer classes out of pocket, roughly $1200 per summer and books which ranged from $400-$800 per semester + summer classes which were usually about $200. I still accumulated 2 years of student loan debt from the jr college and two and a half years from the University. My point was, I didnt take out any "extra." I didnt use student loan money for a few classes (summer ones) and I didnt use student loan money to puchase books. In total I probably paid for 8k-10k out of pocket throughout the whole deal but in the grand scheme of a 50k education... you still have a lot of student loan debt. I also had to pull 2 private loans with my Dad as a co-signer because my parents had so much invested in my older sisters for loans.
I have a A.S paralegal degree and a B.A in Criminal Justice. The two years in jr college (paralegal) transferred directly (all credits) into my 4 year. The entire program should have taken 5 years but with summer classes and a few heavy semesters I got done a tad early. |
|
| |
Ugg, title of article should be stupid decisions and living beyond your means