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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
 
Location: IL | Looking for some suggestions, tips, and/or drills for a horse that is anticipating the turns. When just trotting or slow loping between the barrels (breaking down to trot around barrels) she works great. But when I go to slow lope her through the pattern she starts to anticipate the turns especially her second barrel. Help? |
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 Expert
Posts: 2604
  
Location: Texas | I'm having the same issue. Look forward to hearing some solutions. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | I like all lefts or rights. You can get a good handle on teaching them to move up, out and then finish the backside of the turn. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | TBone - 2014-05-28 11:44 AM I'm having the same issue. Look forward to hearing some solutions.
Frustrating isnt it? She's a very ratey mare too so it compounds the problem. Almost all my barrel work I've done with her has been done at a long trot to try and keep her free'd up and she does great. Same when I break her down to a trot around the barrels from a lope. But ask her to lope completely through and it all goes south. Lol |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2014-05-28 11:49 AM
I like all lefts or rights. You can get a good handle on teaching them to move up, out and then finish the backside of the turn.
I've been doing all lefts and all rights some but maybe I need to do it more? I just dont want to burn her out, ya know? She's the type that gets bored with the same drill pretty quick. :/ |
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Regular
Posts: 82
| I like to take them to the fence, roll them off the barrel. Make them think and listen to me. Change it up some so they're not sure what to expect. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | 3canchaser01 - 2014-05-28 11:54 AM I like to take them to the fence, roll them off the barrel. Make them think and listen to me. Change it up some so they're not sure what to expect.
This is exactly what I did with my Paint mare when she started anticipating turns. And it only took one session to break her of the issue. I haven't tried it with this mare yet as I know its the type of drill that will make her very nervous but maybe I just need to suck it up and give it a try. |
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The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | TACKyPaints - 2014-05-28 11:53 AM WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2014-05-28 11:49 AM I like all lefts or rights. You can get a good handle on teaching them to move up, out and then finish the backside of the turn. I've been doing all lefts and all rights some but maybe I need to do it more? I just dont want to burn her out, ya know? She's the type that gets bored with the same drill pretty quick. :/
Then I would work her off the pattern and being more respectful of your leg (lots of lateral work)and going foward when you drive her forward with your legs. Once she's good with that then a couple spins around the three barrel drill and you'll know if it worked.
I know mine would ignore my leg cue to go up into the turn and drive forward, stay shaped and come around the backside. Part of it is he was stifle sore so make sure thats not why she's anticipating. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2014-05-28 12:01 PM
TACKyPaints - 2014-05-28 11:53 AM WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2014-05-28 11:49 AM I like all lefts or rights. You can get a good handle on teaching them to move up, out and then finish the backside of the turn. I've been doing all lefts and all rights some but maybe I need to do it more? I just dont want to burn her out, ya know? She's the type that gets bored with the same drill pretty quick. :/
I know mine would ignore my leg cue to go up into the turn and drive forward, stay shaped and come around the backside. Part of it is he was stifle sore so make sure thats not why she's anticipating.
She not sore, just had her looked over recently. :/ I think thats part of what frustrates me is when riding off the pattern she is very respectful of my leg and moves off leg pressure beautifully. Side passes while still or moving out, counter arcs at a canter when asked, moves shoulders easily, disengages hip when asked, etc. Very responsive to leg pressure off of the pattern. But once I ask her to lope through the barrels it does seem like she almost forgets. She's not a fan of spurs (pretty sensitive horse) so I haven't tried using them for the added pressure. :/
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Are you pushing her past the barrel, even at a walk? My rate point on my gelding is about when his tail gets to the barrel when walking or trotting or slow loping, because he LOVES to turn it. (going faster it's just when we get to the barrel, because of momentum) I also have to look to the fence to make sure my body isn't telling him to turn. If I look at, no bueno. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | Nateracer - 2014-05-28 12:18 PM Are you pushing her past the barrel, even at a walk? My rate point on my gelding is about when his tail gets to the barrel when walking or trotting or slow loping, because he LOVES to turn it. (going faster it's just when we get to the barrel, because of momentum) I also have to look to the fence to make sure my body isn't telling him to turn. If I look at, no bueno.
Oh yes, I keep her constantly moving forward. I've been training her for more of a tear drop, constant forward motion turn. I've been keeping her straight past the barrel until her hip is clear, asking her to turn on the backside, and then come straight back out an into the next barrel. I've never stopped her at barrels for rate and when I've slow loped, I sat for the turn when my leg was past the barrel. Do you think I need to sit later with her? Perhaps I'm sitting too soon at a lope which is making her anticipate? |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| I like to set up a bunch of barrels and just incorporate them into my ride.
Lateral work...oh we're going to leg yield between these two barrels... This time we're going to add a little circle around the barrel and go on about our ride. No big deal. If you're going to circle and feel her anticipate turn the to the other way, no big deal. I don't like to turn them up the wall if I actually send them into the pattern, but if I'm just riding around the arena with a bunch of barrels set up in no particular pattern or order I'm not opposed to it. If barrels make her hot start with cones or poles. |
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| I took my futurity colt to the fence 3 times in a row on the second barrel, and it worked wonders. I actually had to start telling him whoa. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1087
Location: Midland, MI | if I do a lot of pattern work with my mare she anticipates really bad and I can even hussle, kick, smooch, whip and she still shuts down when I'm still going forward. what I do at home is rush past a barrel right to the fence or when I get to the barrel when she starts to shut down in anticipation - turn the other way. After doing this a couple of times she stops anticipating and she listens to me. I stop the whole tutorial right there and I don't touch the barrels again. You may be drilling the barrels too much and she's going to keep anticipating. Stay off the pattern a bit, do some drills to get her to where she's not anticipating a practice and then leave on a good note. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| TACKyPaints - 2014-05-28 9:34 AM Looking for some suggestions, tips, and/or drills for a horse that is anticipating the turns. When just trotting or slow loping between the barrels (breaking down to trot around barrels) she works great. But when I go to slow lope her through the pattern she starts to anticipate the turns especially her second barrel. Help?
If you have a ratey horse this is the last thing you want to do with them. When you go from moving faster to moving slow (ie, lope to trot) you are telling them to slow down. Why would you expect any different when you go faster? By doing your above mentioned drill you are re-enforcing "slow down at the barrel" and saying to the horse "I want you to change speed/slow down here". If your goal with the drill is collection at the barrel then you need to work on lengthening and shortening the stride. Your horse should be able to go the same speed to and around the barrel, while shortening the stride when you get there to prepare for collection in the turn. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| I had a horse a few years ago that started anticipating that I didn't get on top of and ended up spending a year re-wiring his running brain to keep him from turning his "anticipation" to can crashing. Now, as soon as they start it I IMMEDIATELY fix. My favorite is to head towards the barrel (not doing the pattern, could be all lefts or rights or squares) and if I don't give them the cue to turn they better go right on by. That means if I'm going towards a barrel and that horse starts to turn and I don't give them any cue (this includes eyes, body, hands- don't even look at the barrel) then as soon as they start to turn we counter arc off and go the other way or if my plan was to go further by the barrel I counter arc 360 and just go further by the barrel, then turn.
On the flip side, when I ask a horse to turn (eyes, body, voice, hands) they had better keep turning until I ask them to go on.
That ^^ is only walk, trot, lope. When we are at running speed it is always the pattern. No more no less. I don't need a horse to not be confident at a run but other than that I want FULL control. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | It is my experience that it is not generally the horse that is anticipating the turn, but the driver. Stay two-handed, don't look at the barrel, look ahead of you, keep moving forward and then make your barrel turn. If she/you are doing it correctly slowly then you just need to be consistent when you add a little speed. Do it the same exact way.
Good luck!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | grinandbareit - 2014-05-28 4:14 PM It is my experience that it is not generally the horse that is anticipating the turn, but the driver. Stay two-handed, don't look at the barrel, look ahead of you, keep moving forward and then make your barrel turn. If she/you are doing it correctly slowly then you just need to be consistent when you add a little speed. Do it the same exact way. Good luck!
Thanks! I think I'm going to start sitting for my turn, with her in slow work, farther past the barrel than I have been. Maybe sitting when next to the barrel will work with more speed, but maybe it's too soon for slow work which is cueing her too turn too early without enough momentum. Thanks for the advice! :) |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | grinandbareit - 2014-05-28 4:14 PM It is my experience that it is not generally the horse that is anticipating the turn, but the driver. Stay two-handed, don't look at the barrel, look ahead of you, keep moving forward and then make your barrel turn. If she/you are doing it correctly slowly then you just need to be consistent when you add a little speed. Do it the same exact way. Good luck!
 Yep! A big DITTO! This was going to be my advice as well. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Get someone to video you, as I also suspect you are cueing your horse with your body.
Read Ed Wright's book, it is a very useful tool, at his clinics he speaks about turning the barrel a few times, one taking them out a 8, 10, 12 feet away from the barrel, then bringing them back in. He also talks about going up and reverse arcing away from the barrel. His methods really do work. |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | grinandbareit - 2014-05-28 3:14 PM It is my experience that it is not generally the horse that is anticipating the turn, but the driver. Stay two-handed, don't look at the barrel, look ahead of you, keep moving forward and then make your barrel turn. If she/you are doing it correctly slowly then you just need to be consistent when you add a little speed. Do it the same exact way. Good luck!
^^^I have to agree with this...how do I know? I'm a big anticipator, and I know it is going to hurt our runs in the long run and the short run. So I'm trying to take my and my horse's trainer's advice and wait until her shoulder is by the barrel before I go one handed and start to turn. We are only really bad on our first barrel (and we aren't hitting, knock on wood). But it might be an idea! Or wait to turn until your leg is by the barrel. So, more slow work for us (i.e. ME! LOL) so I can get the position right. We are (I am) great up to a lope through, but when we add speed we are not there yet...but I feel like we are (I am, ha-ha) going to get it right eventually. :) So, with that being said, you will get by this and the barrel too!  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | mtcanchazer - 2014-05-28 8:48 PM
grinandbareit - 2014-05-28 3:14 PM It is my experience that it is not generally the horse that is anticipating the turn, but the driver. Stay two-handed, don't look at the barrel, look ahead of you, keep moving forward and then make your barrel turn. If she/you are doing it correctly slowly then you just need to be consistent when you add a little speed. Do it the same exact way. Good luck!
^^^I have to agree with this...how do I know? I'm a big anticipator, and I know it is going to hurt our runs in the long run and the short run. So I'm trying to take my and my horse's trainer's advice and wait until her shoulder is by the barrel before I go one handed and start to turn. We are only really bad on our first barrel (and we aren't hitting, knock on wood). But it might be an idea! Or wait to turn until your leg is by the barrel. So, more slow work for us (i.e. ME! LOL) so I can get the position right. We are (I am) great up to a lope through, but when we add speed we are not there yet...but I feel like we are (I am, ha-ha) going to get it right eventually. :) So, with that being said, you will get by this and the barrel too!
Haha! I love your explanation and thank you for your encouragement! :) I sure hope we can get past the barrel cause have a nasty bruise and scab on my shin from the time we didn't quite make it by! Lol I do think it has to be me cueing too early for the turn, probably by sitting too soon. I'm going to start sitting for the turn farther past the barrel in our slow work and see how it goes! *fingers crossed!* haha! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-28 8:29 PM
Get someone to video you, as I also suspect you are cueing your horse with your body.
Read Ed Wright's book, it is a very useful tool, at his clinics he speaks about turning the barrel a few times, one taking them out a 8, 10, 12 feet away from the barrel, then bringing them back in. He also talks about going up and reverse arcing away from the barrel. His methods really do work.
I actually own Ed Wrights book but it's been quite awhile since I read it. Maybe its time I pull it out and read through it again. I do love his methods. I've done the 3 distance drill with this mare a couple times but haven't done it in awhile. This mare is sometimes too smart for her own good. Do a certain maneuver with her twice and, being the over achiever tht she is, will keep doing that exact maneuver. So needless to say there were a couple times I went to turn the barrel once but she thought we needed to turn it two more times! Lol. But I think I'll start throwing that drill into our work randomly and see if it helps. If not for her but to help me :) |
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 Veteran
Posts: 193
Location: USA | I had the same problem with my TB mare and she's the big anticipator but only on the 2nd barrel. I have to make sure when I kicking her and pushing her through the pattern that I use my leg closest to the barrel more and keep her in line between my hands and make sure she stays above herself if she does that we ace the 2nd barrel. And if she gets on her hind end she usually doesn't shoulder because she's already balancing herself. But she's more of a free runner with my push style mare I had on her second I'd do the same thing with my legs but right before the barrel I'd raise my hand till my leg passes the barrel then lower it and she'd turn it.
Also, a horse naturally moves away from pressure so doing your warm up or slow work trying getting the corner of her eye and still making her go straight or move off your leg because your other rein should be lose while the one your pulling on to get her eye should have some pressure making her want to move over to the loose rein. Also, don't forget leg, I like to use more leg and seat than I do rein. |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | I would bet its the rider. I do the same thing in bigger patterns when I have too much time to think, or have my head up my rear I'm not sure which. Just last night I went to my first big outdoor run of the season. I asked wayyyyyyy too soon at the 3rd barrel. Thankfully my mare is too dang honest and didn't turn right into it like I asked but we did lose a lot of time. I'll work on that next week.
Edited by CYA Ranch 2014-05-29 9:34 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 802
| 3 To Go - 2014-05-28 2:02 PM TACKyPaints - 2014-05-28 9:34 AM Looking for some suggestions, tips, and/or drills for a horse that is anticipating the turns. When just trotting or slow loping between the barrels (breaking down to trot around barrels) she works great. But when I go to slow lope her through the pattern she starts to anticipate the turns especially her second barrel. Help? If you have a ratey horse this is the last thing you want to do with them. When you go from moving faster to moving slow (ie, lope to trot ) you are telling them to slow down. Why would you expect any different when you go faster? By doing your above mentioned drill you are re-enforcing "slow down at the barrel" and saying to the horse "I want you to change speed/slow down here". If your goal with the drill is collection at the barrel then you need to work on lengthening and shortening the stride. Your horse should be able to go the same speed to and around the barrel, while shortening the stride when you get there to prepare for collection in the turn.
Totally agree with this statement. My bay mare is cowhorse bred and can't wait to sit and turn. The drill where you ask for more speed at the barrel has helped me get by them a lot better. So I walk to a barrel then trot around it. Then trot up and lope around it. Then lope up and run around it. I have to really hustle her on the backside too which I had to learn to get up and kick her on the backside instead of just sitting there. |
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Anticipating the turns?