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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
   
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | We can keep this anonymous but I'm curious....who uses it an why? |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | I have used it on a couple different horses for breathing issues when I was running. I used strictly for that issue.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I don't use it now, but if I had a horse with airway issues and a vet prescribed it I would use it, barring it was legal in the rule book for that event. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I used it on my best horse years and years ago with success. I have tried it on two horses since then with very negative reactions. They get severely agitated, heart racing, and break out sweating horribly. With my current horse, a bleeder with a restricted airway, I just feel like I am doing more for him by using other products then ventipulmon, but i am just curious. I remember years ago it was the hot thing on the market. But now I wonder just how hot it still is and if ppl still use it. I came across an old friend the other day that is going to use is strictly as a performance enhancer because she can. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| We're you giving iv or po?
Just read in my vet drug book it says adverse effects at high doses can cause tachycardia and tremors.
I had one horse who for 2 years would get chronic lung infections, he was always on it, I had the iv on hand in case his breathing got too bad, never had to use it thank goodness.
If you are having good results with others great, I don't change what isn't broken
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-05-29 1:26 PM
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | po, and I think the heart rate increase was a result of nerves and agitation. Not necessarily from the ventipulmon. I don't have any plans of using it on my current horses, I'm just asking out of curiosity and boredom, and because it's a horse topic :) |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I have used it with my horse that has a breathing issue. It was prescribed by a vet. I have since switched to a different product, but still have some in the medicine cabinet in case I need to use it.
Just curious, what products are you using for your bleeder with restricted airway? I've been struggling with my mare, and it gets much worse in the spring, so I'm assuming hers is allergy/dust related. She has been scoped, but don't have access after a run, so I don't know for sure if she's bleeding or not, but vet suggested I run her on Lasix so I do. I've got her on Tri-Hist and use a product to open her airways prior to riding (Super Wind). A couple of days ago my vet suggested a shot, can't remember for sure the name, something like betamethasone, and that seemed to help quite a bit. She had been off of the Tri-Hist for several months, but I had to put her back on it recently to help with her breathing. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| My good horse has been on it for over a year. He has really bad dust allergies. I use it the day before a run, day of, and smaller dose day after. |
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 Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | Used it when I lived in very dry conditions out west and horse developed a dry cough due to dust. Used it when I ran and for daily riding. Was eventually able to discontinue it. |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I really like using Ventipulmin via inhalation. It cuts down on the "Jitters" the beta 2 effects are affecting the very target tissue, the lungs and the Beta 1 effects on the heart are much milder.
If your horses is having seasonal allergies test for the cause then treat.
I sure hate giving Ventipulmin to rank horses it just makes your warm up miserable, not to mention how the horse must feel with their heart rate up. Laid back horses that need it I have no problems using it PO.
For the horse that ran better on the beclomethasone, have your tried Fluticasone? It's had great results for long term use and less side effects. Some believe that horses are "cured" by its use.
I'm going to try to find a good write up on these meds for you. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Ventipulmin is a beta-2 agonist
Horses, unlike most other animals, are adrenergic sweaters. Norepinephrine is the neurotransmitter for horses to sweat, whereas acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter for other animals. Those animals are muscarinic cholinergic sweaters.
Long story short- give a beta 2 agonist like ventipulmin- you get beta 2 effects- bronchodilation, and sweating.
I'm reading up on why the tachycardia happens sometimes… I will return! |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I hope this link will work for you... http://www.thehorse.com/articles/15922/inhalation-therapy-for-equine-airway-disease
OP, thank you, love discussing the issues that affect our horses and have so much impact on their longevity. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | As to the when/why we use it…
I've kept it on hand in the past because our summers get very hot and every once in a while we will have a horse get heavey in the summer. IDK if its the fact they quit sweating that they started the heave like breathing, or if they were just heavey from allergies and miserable. I would give it to them and they would start sweating and their breathing would calm back down.
We have an old mare who we run on ventipulmin just the day of the race and on half the recommended dose. We have cicatrix in our area, and there's really not much to do about it other than not turn out horses, or try the pythium vaccine which I am not sold on. her airways are a bit scarred up so she runs on it.
I wonder if there's not a cross reactivity sometimes with beta-1 receptors that can sometimes cause tachycardia? my guess.. don't know yet. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | casualdust07 - 2014-05-29 2:11 PM Ventipulmin is a beta-2 agonist Horses, unlike most other animals, are adrenergic sweaters. Norepinephrine is the neurotransmitter for horses to sweat, whereas acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter for other animals. Those animals are muscarinic cholinergic sweaters. Long story short- give a beta 2 agonist like ventipulmin- you get beta 2 effects- bronchodilation, and sweating. I'm reading up on why the tachycardia happens sometimes… I will return!
It has some beta 1 activity. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | uno-dos-tres! - 2014-05-29 2:19 PM
casualdust07 - 2014-05-29 2:11 PM Ventipulmin is a beta-2 agonist Horses, unlike most other animals, are adrenergic sweaters. Norepinephrine is the neurotransmitter for horses to sweat, whereas acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter for other animals. Those animals are muscarinic cholinergic sweaters. Long story short- give a beta 2 agonist like ventipulmin- you get beta 2 effects- bronchodilation, and sweating. I'm reading up on why the tachycardia happens sometimes… I will return!
It has some beta 1 activity.
Yep that's the reason. My friend confirmed..LOL we are bored this summer! the beta 1 activity causes vasodilation which will cause a drop in blood pressure.. heart rate increases to compensate |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | justcruzin - 2014-05-28 3:07 PM Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
Some will disagree with you............or so they believe........... |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Iv'e learned lots out of boredom! |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | yep we covered the basics of alpha and beta agonists/antagonists in physiology last year but I'm sure my mind will be blown when we take pharmacology next year..
My prof told me that a normal horse will be dilated as much as they possibly can, therefore giving them a bronchodilator won't dilate them anymore…That being said, I do know people have described anabolic like effects when giving ventipulmin long term. so maybe theres something more that goes on |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | justcruzin - 2014-05-29 2:07 PM
Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
I think this is correct. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| uno-dos-tres! - 2014-05-29 2:11 PM
I really like using Ventipulmin via inhalation. It cuts down on the "Jitters" the beta 2 effects are affecting the very target tissue, the lungs and the Beta 1 effects on the heart are much milder.
If your horses is having seasonal allergies test for the cause then treat.
I sure hate giving Ventipulmin to rank horses it just makes your warm up miserable, not to mention how the horse must feel with their heart rate up. Laid back horses that need it I have no problems using it PO.
For the horse that ran better on the beclomethasone, have your tried Fluticasone? It's had great results for long term use and less side effects. Some believe that horses are "cured" by its use.
I'm going to try to find a good write up on these meds for you.
What my vet gave me was an IM shot. I'll have to go dig the bottle out of the trash so I know for sure what it was. He thought that the shot would be effective for 1-2 months. I read the link and saved it for future reference. I've thought several times that I should try to get some kind of an inhaler for her, but I don't even know where to begin. Do I need to go through a vet? Sometimes I feel like the vets think I'm crazy. I really just need to set up a dynamic endoscopy so they can see what she does while she's working, not just at a stand-still. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Jenbabe - 2014-05-29 2:36 PM I have used it with my horse that has a breathing issue. It was prescribed by a vet. I have since switched to a different product, but still have some in the medicine cabinet in case I need to use it. Just curious, what products are you using for your bleeder with restricted airway? I've been struggling with my mare, and it gets much worse in the spring, so I'm assuming hers is allergy/dust related. She has been scoped, but don't have access after a run, so I don't know for sure if she's bleeding or not, but vet suggested I run her on Lasix so I do. I've got her on Tri-Hist and use a product to open her airways prior to riding (Super Wind). A couple of days ago my vet suggested a shot, can't remember for sure the name, something like betamethasone, and that seemed to help quite a bit. She had been off of the Tri-Hist for several months, but I had to put her back on it recently to help with her breathing.
THE Pulmon-EZE and EQ Royal |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | You can buy an inhaler thru your vet or from a supply company. You will need to get the meds from your vet.
Try the OTC products that missroselee suggested, I had success with the THE products on a rodeo horse about 10 years ago. I also like using Vit CK from BigD race supply. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 473
| justcruzin - 2014-05-29 3:07 PM
Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
I completely disagree. Unless all the horses I've encountered that are using it on the track don't have normal lung function. |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | AfleetEquine - 2014-05-30 9:50 AM justcruzin - 2014-05-29 3:07 PM Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
I completely disagree. Unless all the horses I've encountered that are using it on the track don't have normal lung function.
Please do some research. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | You guys are great! Love the information everyone has offered! I personally don't need to lower my dose because I don't intend on using it. However when I refer to the times I have, I was giving a low dose, 5cc.
I guess part of my curiosity is because I don't really see the point in using it unless there is a darn good medical condition to, such as airway problems/allergies/etc.
I just don't care for it though because I feel like if you are only using it to enhance performance, then there are better products out there to accomplish that. And I also don't feel like it enhances anything on a "normal" horse. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| missroselee - 2014-05-30 12:19 PM
You guys are great! Love the information everyone has offered! I personally don't need to lower my dose because I don't intend on using it. However when I refer to the times I have, I was giving a low dose, 5cc.
I guess part of my curiosity is because I don't really see the point in using it unless there is a darn good medical condition to, such as airway problems/allergies/etc.
I just don't care for it though because I feel like if you are only using it to enhance performance, then there are better products out there to accomplish that. And I also don't feel like it enhances anything on a "normal" horse.
I agree with you, I don't use it unless my horses are in respiratory distress, I will administer it after having a discussion with the vet on the course of treatment.
For my own piece of mind, I don't run my horses on it unless the vet has examined the horse and says it is safe to do so. The later rarely happens. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | We used it on one horse every time he competed. He does have a bit of a chonic cough when it's dusty so it was great for him. We used the cough syrup type. For arond home and the other horses we used the cheap stuff, Air Power.
Worked great for us and I would it again in a heartbeat. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 473
| justcruzin - 2014-05-30 1:06 PM
AfleetEquine - 2014-05-30 9:50 AM justcruzin - 2014-05-29 3:07 PM Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
I completely disagree. Unless all the horses I've encountered that are using it on the track don't have normal lung function.
I don't agree with it, but I do feel as it is an upper. Even you stated "restlessness," which, in some cases I do believe can be a performance enhancer. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | AfleetEquine - 2014-05-30 5:12 PM justcruzin - 2014-05-30 1:06 PM AfleetEquine - 2014-05-30 9:50 AM justcruzin - 2014-05-29 3:07 PM Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
I completely disagree. Unless all the horses I've encountered that are using it on the track don't have normal lung function. I don't agree with it, but I do feel as it is an upper. Even you stated "restlessness," which, in some cases I do believe can be a performance enhancer.
Yet it is outlawed on racetracks. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | SC Wrangler - 2014-06-01 2:02 PM AfleetEquine - 2014-05-30 5:12 PM justcruzin - 2014-05-30 1:06 PM AfleetEquine - 2014-05-30 9:50 AM justcruzin - 2014-05-29 3:07 PM Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
I completely disagree. Unless all the horses I've encountered that are using it on the track don't have normal lung function. I don't agree with it, but I do feel as it is an upper. Even you stated "restlessness," which, in some cases I do believe can be a performance enhancer.
I think part of why it's outlawed is because of the dangers of the wrong people using it. I've seen this stuff almost kill a horse when not dosed properly. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | missroselee - 2014-06-01 6:35 PM SC Wrangler - 2014-06-01 2:02 PM AfleetEquine - 2014-05-30 5:12 PM justcruzin - 2014-05-30 1:06 PM AfleetEquine - 2014-05-30 9:50 AM justcruzin - 2014-05-29 3:07 PM Clenbuterol is a bronchodilator, when usen in high doses it will cause sweating, tachycardia and restlessness. Lower the dose and go from there, also it will not enhance performance if the horse has normal lung function. The drug works and I have used it with great success in the past.
I completely disagree. Unless all the horses I've encountered that are using it on the track don't have normal lung function. I don't agree with it, but I do feel as it is an upper. Even you stated "restlessness," which, in some cases I do believe can be a performance enhancer.
Drug regulations in racing jurisdictions are 90% about protecting the betting public and maybe 10% about the horses. There is definitely not agreement about the performance enhancing properties of Ventipulmon. |
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 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | I used it on my mare that has allergies but I've since switch to wind aid and Finishline airpower they seem to be working well, she did get really sweaty on ventipulmon. I'll only use venti if conditions are really bugging her and I syringe it in her mouth. |
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Ventipulmon......