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 Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
   
Location: British Columbia | I was just out with my colts and I noticed my yearling not walking straight. His left hind leg is obviously sore but it's like the tendons aren't working in both. He knocks himself and trips and rolls his fetlock. Honestly this horse is going to lame himself. I watched him try to kick flies off his belly and smack the back of his knee and drop to the ground. Is it possible this is all because of his unusually long legs or should he definitely have more power in his hind end at this point?
Edited by TMEquine 2014-05-31 8:32 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Wobblers?
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | agree.. exactly how bad is he? have a video or is he just a bit Juvenile clumsy? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 600
Location: Oklahoma & Texas | Get him tested for epm ..fasteryou catch it better off your chances chances are for a good recovery... |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | It's really hard to tell, I was just out with him and made him lope big circles around the pasture and he seemed fine until he slowed to a trot and he looked like he couldn't find the proper rhythm. My other colt bumped him at a trot and sent him completely off kilter and he stopped to regain his balance. I'm not sure I think it's wobblers so much as his right hip is out, but I won't rule it out either. We have a vet appointment for Monday afternoon.
ETA- if someone knows how to post a video I can send it to them.
Edited by TMEquine 2014-05-30 9:31 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| BBrewster - 2014-05-30 9:17 PM
Get him tested for epm ..fasteryou catch it better off your chances chances are for a good recovery...
I don't think we have EPM in our area.
But maybe west Nile |
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-31 1:28 AM
BBrewster - 2014-05-30 9:17 PM
Get him tested for epm ..fasteryou catch it better off your chances chances are for a good recovery...
I don't think we have EPM in our area.
But maybe west Nile
If he tests clean for west nile and wobblers I would definitely test him for EPM though. I hate to say it but I have seen my first Opossum in Mid Ontario area. They are slowly moving north; and I see them all the time when I travel to the Kitchener/Waterloo area too, so it's likely only a matter of time.
Depending on how long he's had it I would check for west nile first. Have you just noticed it recently? I know we are having a bad start to the year for bugs. It was almost overnight and they were swarming. IMO |
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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: Up and over to the right | Sounds neurological to me. Have you asked the opinion of a vet? Would be interested in a video if you can post it to youtube then here. |
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Veteran
Posts: 197
| Had one acting the same way and it was wobblers, ended up putting her down. Prayers that's not what's wrong with your guy |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | ndiehl - 2014-05-31 12:51 AM
cheryl makofka - 2014-05-31 1:28 AM
BBrewster - 2014-05-30 9:17 PM
Get him tested for epm ..fasteryou catch it better off your chances chances are for a good recovery...
I don't think we have EPM in our area.
But maybe west Nile
If he tests clean for west nile and wobblers I would definitely test him for EPM though. I hate to say it but I have seen my first Opossum in Mid Ontario area. They are slowly moving north; and I see them all the time when I travel to the Kitchener/Waterloo area too, so it's likely only a matter of time.
Depending on how long he's had it I would check for west nile first. Have you just noticed it recently? I know we are having a bad start to the year for bugs. It was almost overnight and they were swarming. IMO
I did only just notice it. Previously he had been "clumsy", stopping hard at a full gallop in the pasture, bumping trees while trying to weave through them, etc. But last night it was all while moving in straight lines. After rewatching the video over and over it all looks to be in his left hind... like its giving out on him. I've booked a chiro for sunday night and the vet for Monday afternoon. Fudge. |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| cheryl makofka - 2014-05-31 1:28 AM
BBrewster - 2014-05-30 9:17 PM
Get him tested for epm ..fasteryou catch it better off your chances chances are for a good recovery...
I don't think we have EPM in our area.
But maybe west Nile
EPM is everywhere!!!! Usually linked to opossum poop, it could very easily be caused by barn cats. It could be anything. Stringhalt, wobblers, any neurological diseases. Vet evaluation is the best bet.
Catching it early has nothing to do with recovery. I have a horse that I have been treating 3 years. He has never gotten worse. He has very subtle signs and I had a hard time convincing the vets (plural) that he had EPM.. They can have a mild case, a moderate case or a severe case in which they will be dead within a few days. My horse is 2013 APHA Reserve Champion in Pole Bending. He ran on Tuesday and had another round of meds for EPM starting the next Saturday. Again, he has a very mild case of EPM. He was extremely sore when he ran and it takes knowing the horse and knowing the subtle signs to identify the problem. |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | My concern is the vet not knowing, I assume blood work will tell all? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 437
| Had one diagnosed with wobblers remember there are 2 kinds one is traumatic, he may have injured himself and kike mine can recover. Univ of Kentucky has tons of really excellant info on wobbers and ways to fix them without surgery. With my colt we put him on an anti inflamitory to see if it helped and it did within 24 hours, not 100 percent but enough to know it was traumatic. Kept him in a small pen only grass hay and water for almost 8 months but today he just finished 90 days barrel training and is out doing time onlies! There is hope
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | Wrapn3inAK - 2014-05-31 3:36 PM
Had one diagnosed with wobblers remember there are 2 kinds one is traumatic, he may have injured himself and kike mine can recover. Univ of Kentucky has tons of really excellant info on wobbers and ways to fix them without surgery. With my colt we put him on an anti inflamitory to see if it helped and it did within 24 hours, not 100 percent but enough to know it was traumatic. Kept him in a small pen only grass hay and water for almost 8 months but today he just finished 90 days barrel training and is out doing time onlies! There is hope
Is the severity of wobblers increased by feeds with high sugar content? Should I eliminate feed entirely other than hay? |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | can you post video? id not get to focused on one thing or another.. it could be a injury as well.. |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| TMEquine - 2014-05-31 5:20 PM
Wrapn3inAK - 2014-05-31 3:36 PM
Had one diagnosed with wobblers remember there are 2 kinds one is traumatic, he may have injured himself and kike mine can recover. Univ of Kentucky has tons of really excellant info on wobbers and ways to fix them without surgery. With my colt we put him on an anti inflamitory to see if it helped and it did within 24 hours, not 100 percent but enough to know it was traumatic. Kept him in a small pen only grass hay and water for almost 8 months but today he just finished 90 days barrel training and is out doing time onlies! There is hope
Is the severity of wobblers increased by feeds with high sugar content? Should I eliminate feed entirely other than hay?
do not think that feed affects Wobblers. It can be hereditary, affects young horses, is progressive. Here is a link to a pretty good article.
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/asc133.pdf |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | Bibliafarm - 2014-05-31 4:29 PM
can you post video? id not get to focused on one thing or another.. it could be a injury as well..
I don't know how to post videos to youtube, I'll try to post it to facebook and attach that link maybe? |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | that would work.. and
make it public (the video on fb.. )then others can see it from here.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-05-31 6:07 PM
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | I'm having a hell of a time even getting it off my phone...Sigh, all this technology and still nothing. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Id help if i knew how from cell!! LMBO |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10154217458230327
Here we go, hopefully that works! Lol
At 44 seconds and 1:01, and again at 1:41 you can see his odd lope
Edited by TMEquine 2014-06-01 1:58 PM
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| That is some kind of injury. Definitely not an illness |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | Honeymoney - 2014-05-31 7:41 PM
That is some kind of injury. Definitely not an illness
I think it's his left hip. His left leg paddles in and that's the hip that drops. He's penned alone right now and I have the chiro coming tomorrow morning. Hopefully they can identify where exactly hurts and do something for him.
ETA- I picked up both his hind legs and stretched them and lifted them to his belly and moved them forward. It seemed to help for a while.
Edited by TMEquine 2014-05-31 8:50 PM
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 Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
Location: Memphis, TN | Maybe his stifle is catching? I agree it looks like a lameness vs. neurological. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I might hold off on chiro until you get a diagnosis from the vet.
The few things that come to mind
Fractured pelvis, if it was my horse I wouldn't want chiro cracking my horse and possibly moving the pelvis out of alignment. I am not sure how a vet could diagnose this on a yearling, as I am not sure they can perform a rectal on that small of a horse.
The less severe thing that comes to mind is the stifle as the toe drag from my understanding is a sign of stifle problems, again I wouldn't want chiro pulling on that in case ligaments and tendons have torn, I wouldn't want to make it any worse.
Good luck |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-31 8:59 PM
I might hold off on chiro until you get a diagnosis from the vet.
The few things that come to mind
Fractured pelvis, if it was my horse I wouldn't want chiro cracking my horse and possibly moving the pelvis out of alignment. I am not sure how a vet could diagnose this on a yearling, as I am not sure they can perform a rectal on that small of a horse.
The less severe thing that comes to mind is the stifle as the toe drag from my understanding is a sign of stifle problems, again I wouldn't want chiro pulling on that in case ligaments and tendons have torn, I wouldn't want to make it any worse.
Good luck
If it were his pelvis wouldn't both his hind legs not function properly? I'm thinking more a stifle problem, but if it is something torn, what could the vet even do for that?
And would a horse still have this much mobility with a fractured pelvis? |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The last part where he went to lope would concern me alot. it doesnt appear that his hip or pelvis area is working correctly.. a slight fracture or something of that nature.. It to me doesnt appear a locking stifle at all..both legs had a issue and it to me looks higher up.. in the pelvis hip area.. id be concerned and id not allow anyone to mess with him until a vet gets there . I may be wrong and I hope I am. I went back and looked and doesnt both legs at the end of video mess up? It couldnt see closely.. but it did to me.. also possibly pelvis is just out. just some things to think about but Id get vet first before anyone adjusts or goes and does anything
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-05-31 10:22 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| TMEquine - 2014-05-31 10:11 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-05-31 8:59 PM
I might hold off on chiro until you get a diagnosis from the vet.
The few things that come to mind
Fractured pelvis, if it was my horse I wouldn't want chiro cracking my horse and possibly moving the pelvis out of alignment. I am not sure how a vet could diagnose this on a yearling, as I am not sure they can perform a rectal on that small of a horse.
The less severe thing that comes to mind is the stifle as the toe drag from my understanding is a sign of stifle problems, again I wouldn't want chiro pulling on that in case ligaments and tendons have torn, I wouldn't want to make it any worse.
Good luck
If it were his pelvis wouldn't both his hind legs not function properly? I'm thinking more a stifle problem, but if it is something torn, what could the vet even do for that?
And would a horse still have this much mobility with a fractured pelvis?
Not necessarily, it all depends on where the fracture is in the pelvis. I had one who did a toe drag and waddled somewhat like a penguin at a walk, had a fairly normal gait at a jog, lope she was fine. She had an aligned internal (along the birth canal) fracture of the left side, she had no impairments on the right, the first vet actually thought it was the left stifle and said to give her time, 2 months later she improved but not fully, I went for a second opinion and got the diagnosis.
I am very blessed as my vet looks at the whole view of the horse, especially for my goals with the horse.
With that being said not many vets will do what mine will.
Any new tear the less time that passes before you can inject stem cells in results in less scar tissue.
Also if it is in a joint, I want the inflammation out of the joint immediately as the longer a joint is inflamed, the more chance of arthritis developing later on. There is a wonderful drug that removes inflammation within hours of injection, and has no effect on the cartilage, I get this done ASAP.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-05-31 10:26 PM
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Elite Veteran
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| Bibliafarm - 2014-05-31 10:20 PM
The last part where he went to lope would concern me alot. it doesnt appear that his hip or pelvis area is working correctly.. a slight fracture or something of that nature.. It to me doesnt appear a locking stifle at all..both legs had a issue and it to me looks higher up.. in the pelvis hip area.. id be concerned and id not allow anyone to mess with him until a vet gets there . I may be wrong and I hope I am. I went back and looked and doesnt both legs at the end of video mess up? It couldnt see closely.. but it did to me.. also possibly pelvis is just out. just some things to think about but Id get vet first before anyone adjusts or goes and does anything
This. I'd get X-rays. |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | At 56 seconds I can see his stifle kick out oddly. Hoping it's not his pelvis. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | From watching the video I would be willing to put more money on a catching stifle than wobblers. It's hard to tell neurological from musculoskeletal problems, especially with horses.
I would go to a vet, not a chiropractor. I would really want to get radiographs and look at the leg and the cervical spine if they think its something like wobblers… you don't want a chiropractor to be adjusting a potentially unstable area.
At this point watching the video, I am leaning toward a stifle issue- anything from an OCD to luxation could cause that dramatic lameness. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | at 1:02 it appears like both gave a issue like higher up in pelvic area .. but i can see the other times appears stifle to some degree.. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | I would skip the chiro and go to a good vet. JMO.
Good luck with your yearling.
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| Try the simple EPM test while you are holding him ... step back to his hip and just shove firmly on the point of his hip as if you want to flip him over.
See if he almost falls down and ends up with his rear legs crossed ... ... this would be a good start.
The clarity of the video makes it tuff to see everything that is going on ... on one side it looks like suspensory ligaments in both rears is making him walk on face of his hooves ... next look .. his short stepping in both rears appears to be stifle joint problems ... and then hip problems with his rears short stepping and long open step out behind his tail in the same step ...
Do a serious EPM physical which will cover the other things I mentioned... he is not using either rear leg/foot to support the other one... both go down in the same stride.
Best advice I can give is .. when this young with a serious problem in the rear end like this ... be careful and do not let your emotions empty your bank acct trying to fix a maybeso or serious situation. Accept the fact he may be a trail horse at his best and will not be able to hold up under the rigors of barrel racing....
GOOD LUCK ... hope it is just bad trimming on his rear feet ...
(i am going to kill autocorrect first chance i get!!)lol
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-06-01 12:08 AM
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | I've had him alone all night and morning. His hind end seems stronger today. Still sore, but he's putting his hind feet down normally with even weight distribution on them.
I've still got the chiro out today but only to do an assessment, not work on him. I didn't sleep last night after reading everyone's comments so I'd like to have someone come out and evaluate him to hopefully put my mind at ease until Monday afternoon. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: Montana | TMEquine - 2014-05-31 3:02 PM My concern is the vet not knowing, I assume blood work will tell all?
Blood work CBC , Chem panel, will not alert you to ALOT of things. EPM is Everywhere! Skunks, cats, birds also transfer it.
Most vets are Not gonna know by laying eyes on something neurologic. Test will need to be done to blood or spinal fluid to determine.
Most of these test are not performed by vets, they will need to be sent off to labs. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Montana | Honeymoney - 2014-05-31 7:41 PM That is some kind of injury. Definitely not an illness
agree.... |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | I'll have an updated video of today shortly. It's much clearer. Just fighting it out with my phone and facebook right now. |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10154220139730327
New video from this morning, turn off the volume so you don't hear me telling my hubby what to do lol |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| If you watch very closely you can see him limping on his left rear. This really does not tell you much because he could be compensating for somewhere completely different but going by the other video I would say left hip. I do not think this horse has EPM.
A couple of EPM tests that you can do----
Cross the front legs. The horse should fight you just trying to cross them. If they just stand there it is NOT good.
Take their tail and curve it up over the horse's back---push very hard. They should hump up like a scared cat. If they stay flat it is NOT good.
If this horse has a pelvic issue and you push him over he is going to stumble over so that is not a reliable test for EPM.
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The EPM test will not be conclusive due to he may have a Injury of some sort. and any horse with injury will fall or not be balanced if his hind is injured or out.. I dont think its epm either.. he is to secure in all other aspects of his body.. jmo his hind is still off.. get a good lameness vet...
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-06-01 3:39 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 555
Location: Puky midwest | Looked like his stifle is catching to me. |
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 Sweet Tea
Posts: 3496
Location: Home of the World Famous "Silver Bullet" | keep us in the loop. praying he isn"t a wobbler. |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | I'll be sure to update tomorrow evening, thank you for caring :) |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Update? |
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Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | FlyingJT - 2014-06-03 8:43 AM
Update?
Vet rescheduled for 3:30 today. We're having x-rays done. I've had the poor snot stalled for two days up to his ears in shavings and straw. He loves being inside though(he thinks the auto waterers are the cats meow and loves to sleep splayed out on straw).
I'll post right when the vet leaves this evening. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 437
| TMEquine - 2014-05-31 3:20 PM Wrapn3inAK - 2014-05-31 3:36 PM Had one diagnosed with wobblers remember there are 2 kinds one is traumatic, he may have injured himself and kike mine can recover. Univ of Kentucky has tons of really excellant info on wobbers and ways to fix them without surgery. With my colt we put him on an anti inflamitory to see if it helped and it did within 24 hours, not 100 percent but enough to know it was traumatic. Kept him in a small pen only grass hay and water for almost 8 months but today he just finished 90 days barrel training and is out doing time onlies! There is hope
Is the severity of wobblers increased by feeds with high sugar content? Should I eliminate feed entirely other than hay?
Edited by Wrapn3inAK 2014-06-03 11:00 PM
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Unusually clumsy yearling?-Video Added p.2