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  Bye-Bye Jiggle
Posts: 1691
   
Location: Where ever there's sunshine! | Let me begin by saying I am not trying to step on any toes.
So, the term "fancy" broke has been going around a lot and it has got me puzzled. What does it mean??? I come from a barrel background but have rode with and in as many other disciplines as I can get myself into. I have come to realize that many, and I use this lightly, barrel racers are riding horses that appear to be just above green broke. Takes all the riders strength and the largest bit they can find To control the animal and at that their horse is still dragging them down the alley and around the arena. And as for the rider moving their legs, all the horses seem to know is that if the leg moves go forward as fast as you can. Forget about the seat...up, down, hanging off the side, horse can't seem to tell a difference. And these are supposed to be fancy broke??? I don't get it!!! They're are many trainers just In The barrel world alone turning out horses with amazing handles, body control, and the ability to listen the the riders body. These people NEVER use the term "fancy" broke. Because the horse isn't "fancy" broke, he is simply broke, well broke.
Ok, rant over. Flame away |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
 
Location: Texas |  preach it! I agree! |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I agree 110%!!
When I read "fancy broke" that horse better be like top level reining or dressage broke. Otherwise the horse is just plain BROKE! |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | THIS is why I don't even bother giving riding lessons anymore. It's not that people can't find people willing to teach them, it's that they aren't willing to learn! I have had probably about a dozen people over the past couple years try to start riding lessons with me because they wanted to learn to barrel race, but I told them before you can start barrel racing there's some basic horsemanship you need to learn. Every single one of them come for anywhere from 1 to a few lessons and I don't hear back from them. Then I see them at a show riding exactly how you just described. Flailing around, trying to go Mach 5, and all I can think is poor horse.
So now when people ask me, I just say no. |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| And this is one of the biggest and most obvious flaws with barrel racing.
It looks so easy to ignorant people from afar, but It's still easy to do it wrong, and very hard to do it right.
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | BamaCanChaser - 2014-06-05 4:09 PM THIS is why I don't even bother giving riding lessons anymore. It's not that people can't find people willing to teach them, it's that they aren't willing to learn! I have had probably about a dozen people over the past couple years try to start riding lessons with me because they wanted to learn to barrel race, but I told them before you can start barrel racing there's some basic horsemanship you need to learn. Every single one of them come for anywhere from 1 to a few lessons and I don't hear back from them. Then I see them at a show riding exactly how you just described. Flailing around, trying to go Mach 5, and all I can think is poor horse. So now when people ask me, I just say no.
Yup! I have girls every year that want to intern for me during the summer but when they find out little of my riding time is actually spent on the barrel pattern they lose interest. One girl lasted about a week. I have one girl right now that does a great job and really wants to learn the hardwork that is put in behind the success in the arena. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | We always called it "sale barn broke".  |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | BamaCanChaser - 2014-06-05 4:09 PM
THIS is why I don't even bother giving riding lessons anymore. It's not that people can't find people willing to teach them, it's that they aren't willing to learn! I have had probably about a dozen people over the past couple years try to start riding lessons with me because they wanted to learn to barrel race, but I told them before you can start barrel racing there's some basic horsemanship you need to learn. Every single one of them come for anywhere from 1 to a few lessons and I don't hear back from them. Then I see them at a show riding exactly how you just described. Flailing around, trying to go Mach 5, and all I can think is poor horse.
So now when people ask me, I just say no.
Lol SO TRUE!!
There was a teen girl a few years back that asked for lessons - just basic riding, but with an end goal of barrel racing. I gave her ONE lesson on MY good, solid, BROKE horse because hers was the classic green/green "so they can learn together" situation. Her and her mother BOTH contradicted EVERYTHING the WHOLE time saying, "we read about this on the internet and.... Soandso says to do it like this...." Yes, Al Dunning DOES want a horse to be able to do things a bit different, but he can also lope a circle with his butt in the saddle - so why don't we work on that before we go trying to win an NRHA Championship mmmkay?
Later that same year.... I was pregnant with my first son and I saw them at a local rodeo and the mom was like "oh man!! You should have had ______ ride Buster in the barrels tonight! I bet they would have done awesome!!"
I tried not to laugh too hard, and kindly (as I could) brushed it off.
TO THIS DAY that girl still can't ride, has taken lessons from several other folks - and ALL have dropped her for the same "Cowboy Google" routine.
Back on topic..... When I hear "fancy broke", I generally hear "this horse is trained OKAY, and was trained by somebody who doesn't necessarily know what they are doing. So good luck. Oh, but he does stop."
Unless the seller is a BIG trainer - "fancy broke" is a warning to me. Lol. Because if you are buying from somebody who knows what they are doing, they generally don't need to say anything. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 503
| Agree with you! I have a younger horse and I've had quite a few people ask why I haven't started running him yet - the truth being he's not as broke as I want him to be. I want shoulder control, soft mouth, flying lead changes, collection, rollbacks, leg yields, etc. and that takes a lot longer than just throwing him on the pattern to let him figure it out. |
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 Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | To me it means the seller who wrote the ad does not normally ride a really broke horse.
IMO it means they have all the buttons and whistles that one has that I consider to just be broke. I have two terms for broke, broke and green broke, if they aren't one then they are the other. And yes, I would consider a lot of barrel horses to be not be fully broke. |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | I tried to help one years back that didn't know leads, what a pocket was or that a horse could back up. I have never been so frustrated. She is giving lessons and training horses now. Enough said. |
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Bye-Bye Jiggle
Posts: 1691
Location: Where ever there's sunshine! | AHHHHH THANK YOU LADIES!!!!! I was expecting to get flamed. I feel soo much better knowing I'm not the only one who cringes at the term!! |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I feel like my horses are "dummy broke" and thank God they are because the large majority of people who come try them can't ride THEM, much less something "fancy broke". All my horses are LIGHT because I'm old and weak and can't pull on one, so I expect them to pretty much do it by themselves and when they get these people that want to pull and yank and throw their weight around, they get frustrated pretty quick. It's not fun. I always feel sorry for the horses. |
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Bye-Bye Jiggle
Posts: 1691
Location: Where ever there's sunshine! | LuckyNGG'sGirl - 2014-06-05 6:29 PM
Agree with you! I have a younger horse and I've had quite a few people ask why I haven't started running him yet - the truth being he's not as broke as I want him to be. I want shoulder control, soft mouth, flying lead changes, collection, rollbacks, leg yields, etc. and that takes a lot longer than just throwing him on the pattern to let him figure it out.
Exactly!! I just bought a gelding in October. Literally picked him up at the track. He tried to rip his hind leg off and needless to say is just now, 9 months later, he's finally at the trainers getting his basics. He's just now learning to move off of leg pressure at a trot. He's doing very well and progressing quickly but he's IMHO no where near ready to see the pattern. However, I have people asking me all the time why I haven't put him on the pattern yet. I'm in no hurry with him. The more mTure his body Nd mind and the more he knows under saddle the longer career and better horse I will have. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I watch videos on here all the time that say fancy broke and when horse stops he noses out so bad like jerk reins out of said persons hands and when they do a turn around there is no cross over they just turn and no bend so stiff. And there words where professional and soft. I just laugh. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| The term fancy broke doesn't bother me. The MISUSE of it does. I have 2 horses. 5yo & 3yo. The 5yo is "fancy broke" I know I must be "one of those" right? Wrong. I can ride her without a bridle no problem. That means loping circles, spinning, slow work on the barrels (walk, trot, lope). She is very, very fancy. she does the western pleasure "jog" or the hunt seat flat- kneed long trot. She listens VERY well to my body. Her and I have spent a ton of time together. From the time she was 16mo old. And to add about the running the barrels thing, if I collect my reins, she will get excited but stay flat footed and stay 100% under my control. 100% of her body. Otherwise, its a head down lazy horse walk.
I don't take offense to the post purely because there are so many people out there ruining the term "fancy broke" I do believe however there are a few that truly have "fancy broke" horses. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | To me, fancy broke is one with a strong reining handle; and maybe not the "most" user friendly. Like one that would need a more advanced rider to really get the best out of the horse, or takes a little more experience/feel to ride. If that makes sense.
Like, we have a horse that is NICE. He's the nicest horse I've ridden. So broke, anyone can ride him--he's fabulous. And then there's my horse who I call fancy broke because he looks like a carousel horse while you're ridng him and you have to use more body language that anything to ride him.
Make sense? Prob not. |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| The horse better be dragging it's nose in the dirt! |
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10D Crack Champion
| I think we can use "fancy broke" to describe folks who are living way above their means. They like fancy stuff and have fancy stuff, but behind closed doors they are truly broke & swimming in debt. I've never heard anyone say a horse is fancy broke. Who knows want one really means when he or she uses the term. It's probably very subjective to their knowledge. I guess you have to consider the source. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I love watching the quiet riders, still hands, using their seat, in harmony with their horse.
Edited by rodeomom3 2014-06-06 7:42 AM
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | I tried out a horse that was "fancy broke"
FANCY BROKE DOESN'T MEAN THAT ALLS IT CAN DO IS LOPE A CIRCLE ON THE CORRECT LEAD AND STOP. THAT IS JUST BROKE.. nothing fancy about it.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | It means they don't spook at the glare off your blingy saddles, tack, belts, etc  |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
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 Dog Rescue Hero
Posts: 1660
Location: Oklahoma City OK | It's my opinion that a lot of people can't ride a "fancy broke" or BROKE horse to begin with. A kid asked me last night if he could come over and ride my horse
...he didn't understand that just because he was broke didn't mean that just anybody could ride him. A good broke horse has too many buttons for the average new or novice rider to successfully negotiate - causing both the rider and horse huge frustration and usually ending up ruining the horse. |
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 Friendly horse swapper
Posts: 4122
Location: Buffalo, TX | You are 100% right..."fancy broke" is a term I think sellers over-use to separate their "broke" horses from the ones that feel like pigs....fancy to them might mean a whole different feel than it does to me....it's kind of like saying the horse is "high loping" a pattern....what the heck is "high loping anyway....LOL????  |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | smmthbr - 2014-06-06 10:37 AM It's my opinion that a lot of people can't ride a "fancy broke" or BROKE horse to begin with. A kid asked me last night if he could come over and ride my horse
...he didn't understand that just because he was broke didn't mean that just anybody could ride him. A good broke horse has too many buttons for the average new or novice rider to successfully negotiate - causing both the rider and horse huge frustration and usually ending up ruining the horse.
I think that depends on the horse. I have one now and have had others in the past, that would totally change for a novice rider. As in lose the sensitivity, lose the extra buttons, and totally gear down. But then I step on, and they are up, and ready to work, no tuning needed. And then there are some that refuse to adapt and get mad or take advantage if someone doesn't ride them correctly. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Cindy Hamilton - 2014-06-06 10:48 AM You are 100% right..."fancy broke" is a term I think sellers over-use to separate their "broke" horses from the ones that feel like pigs....fancy to them might mean a whole different feel than it does to me....it's kind of like saying the horse is "high loping" a pattern....what the heck is "high loping anyway....LOL????
Faster than a pleasure lope, slower than a run? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 443
Location: Southern IL somewhere between KY and MO | My horse is "Fancy Broke" and I'm green broke in skills and $$$. LOL thank the good Lord I know i suck and need to improve and am always a willing listener and thank you Cash for being such a great horse and putting up with this ole gal. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Three 4 Luck - 2014-06-06 10:50 AM
smmthbr - 2014-06-06 10:37 AM It's my opinion that a lot of people can't ride a "fancy broke" or BROKE horse to begin with. A kid asked me last night if he could come over and ride my horse
...he didn't understand that just because he was broke didn't mean that just anybody could ride him. A good broke horse has too many buttons for the average new or novice rider to successfully negotiate - causing both the rider and horse huge frustration and usually ending up ruining the horse.
I think that depends on the horse. I have one now and have had others in the past, that would totally change for a novice rider. As in lose the sensitivity, lose the extra buttons, and totally gear down. But then I step on, and they are up, and ready to work, no tuning needed. And then there are some that refuse to adapt and get mad or take advantage if someone doesn't ride them correctly.
I 100% agree with you!
The buckle I'm most proud of my gelding for winning? The PEEWEE/LEADLINE buckle with a 5 year old girl.....
I can get on him, lay down a heck of a run, get off, and hand him to a kid and boom he's a different horse: forgiving, patient, SLOW, lazy, and wonderful. This is the same gelding I mentioned in the "turning style" thread. And he only does it for kids - beginner adults he has no patience for. Maybe he's like a carnival ride? If you weigh over 100 pounds you better know what you're doing. Lol. If somebody would have told me six years ago that he'd end up being a PHENOMENAL kids' horse, I would have laughed them out of town. And now, I wouldn't hesitate to put any kid on him, to do anything with. |
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Mrs. Txdad
Posts: 14084
Location: the fantasy txdad married | svincent - 2014-06-06 10:01 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-06-06 10:50 AM smmthbr - 2014-06-06 10:37 AM It's my opinion that a lot of people can't ride a "fancy broke" or BROKE horse to begin with. A kid asked me last night if he could come over and ride my horse
...he didn't understand that just because he was broke didn't mean that just anybody could ride him. A good broke horse has too many buttons for the average new or novice rider to successfully negotiate - causing both the rider and horse huge frustration and usually ending up ruining the horse. I think that depends on the horse. I have one now and have had others in the past, that would totally change for a novice rider. As in lose the sensitivity, lose the extra buttons, and totally gear down. But then I step on, and they are up, and ready to work, no tuning needed. And then there are some that refuse to adapt and get mad or take advantage if someone doesn't ride them correctly. I 100% agree with you! The buckle I'm most proud of my gelding for winning? The PEEWEE/LEADLINE buckle with a 5 year old girl..... I can get on him, lay down a heck of a run, get off, and hand him to a kid and boom he's a different horse: forgiving, patient, SLOW, lazy, and wonderful. This is the same gelding I mentioned in the "turning style" thread. And he only does it for kids - beginner adults he has no patience for. Maybe he's like a carnival ride? If you weigh over 100 pounds you better know what you're doing. Lol. If somebody would have told me six years ago that he'd end up being a PHENOMENAL kids' horse, I would have laughed them out of town. And now, I wouldn't hesitate to put any kid on him, to do anything with.
I had a mare years ago that was just like that! Put a tiny tot on her and she was so smooth and would stop and shift her weight if they started to slip. We used to throw sacks of feed on her back and send her through the pattern. Put a big person on her and it was Game On! Like she figured if your ^this tall^, you had better already know how to ride, lol |
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Bye-Bye Jiggle
Posts: 1691
Location: Where ever there's sunshine! | smmthbr - 2014-06-06 10:37 AM
It's my opinion that a lot of people can't ride a "fancy broke" or BROKE horse to begin with. A kid asked me last night if he could come over and ride my horse
...he didn't understand that just because he was broke didn't mean that just anybody could ride him. A good broke horse has too many buttons for the average new or novice rider to successfully negotiate - causing both the rider and horse huge frustration and usually ending up ruining the horse.
I got put on a horse like that. I told myself that would not happen again. And promptly started taking all kinds of lessons. Best decision I ever made. And still make as often as I can. |
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 Texas Lone Star
Posts: 5318
Location: where ever my L/Q trl is parked | Cindy Hamilton - 2014-06-06 10:48 AM You are 100% right..."fancy broke" is a term I think sellers over-use to separate their "broke" horses from the ones that feel like pigs....fancy to them might mean a whole different feel than it does to me....it's kind of like saying the horse is "high loping" a pattern....LOL????
....what the heck is "high loping anyway
High loping to me means- not a flat out balls to the wall running. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Well trained or fine tuned is what I would call a horse that has all the buttons and can work good off your seat and aids.. ..
fancy broke seems like a silly defination imho |
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Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | sodapop - 2014-06-06 3:12 AM I think we can use "fancy broke" to describe folks who are living way above their means. They like fancy stuff and have fancy stuff, but behind closed doors they are truly broke & swimming in debt. I've never heard anyone say a horse is fancy broke. Who knows want one really means when he or she uses the term. It's probably very subjective to their knowledge. I guess you have to consider the source.
Isn't that the truth!! I like your definition best of all. |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | sodapop - 2014-06-06 4:12 AM I think we can use "fancy broke" to describe folks who are living way above their means. They like fancy stuff and have fancy stuff, but behind closed doors they are truly broke & swimming in debt. I've never heard anyone say a horse is fancy broke. Who knows want one really means when he or she uses the term. It's probably very subjective to their knowledge. I guess you have to consider the source.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Cindy Hamilton - 2014-06-06 10:48 AM You are 100% right..."fancy broke" is a term I think sellers over-use to separate their "broke" horses from the ones that feel like pigs....fancy to them might mean a whole different feel than it does to me....it's kind of like saying the horse is "high loping" a pattern....what the heck is "high loping anyway....LOL????
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR |
I need some of what you're smoking there so I have an excuse for why I was attempting to put a barrel horse handle on and pattern a 26 year old ex-roping horse today. It's a losing battle...  |
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"Fancy" broke