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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Be shown at , what channel? Go CC Go
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-06-07 4:16 PM
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
      Location: oklahoma | NBC |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Never mine I found it Go CC Go  |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | CurlyQ - 2014-06-07 4:07 PM NBC
Thank you |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I'm so excited, cant wait to see the New Triple Crown winner  |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
     Location: Somewhere between S@% stirrer and Saint | ESPN is posting that a Triple Crown winner has never come out of a field more than 7 horses. This year 11 horses are in the race. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Douglas J Gordon - 2014-06-07 4:17 PM
ESPN is posting that a Triple Crown winner has never come out of a field more than 7 horses. This year 11 horses are in the race.
I got chills reading this, I'm so hoping that we get to see a New Triple Crown happening today  |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 417
    Location: CA | Douglas J Gordon - 2014-06-07 2:17 PM
ESPN is posting that a Triple Crown winner has never come out of a field more than 7 horses. This year 11 horses are in the race.
Boo........Hiss......... ESPN is peeing in the Wheaties!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 975
        Location: The barn...where else? SW Missouri | I'm so ready for the race to start. I'm nervous!! Lol. Want CC to win so bad!!!! |
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Common Sense and then some
         Location: So. California | California Chrome all the way!!!   |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | RunNbarrels - 2014-06-07 5:18 PM I'm so ready for the race to start. I'm nervous!! Lol. Want CC to win so bad!!!!
I'm super nervous for CC too, I dont know if I can even watch,lol...  |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
   Location: SE Louisiana | Almost... |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Well Heck, still a great race, One day I will see a Triple Crown. But hes still a awsome horse  |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Oh no the owner is really upset, I understand being upset but its over |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
     Location: Somewhere between S@% stirrer and Saint | Fresh horses are hard to beat at the Belmont. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Will a big congrats to Tonalist and his Jockey he ran a great race |
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  You just got to get mean and mean it.
     Location: Arkansas | Well, poo! I even had the black cat in my lap for luck!!
I know it a horse race, but I'd be damn upset if it were my horse!! Cut the owner some slack!!  |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Lobo - 2014-06-07 6:11 PM Well, poo! I even had the black cat in my lap for luck!!
I know it a horse race, but I'd be damn upset if it were my horse!!
Cut the owner some slack!!
Hey I'm with the Owner, I wanted this really bad too |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
      Location: oklahoma | I see his point. I will say that by the time cc went from the rail to the far outside to make his move, he looked totally gassed....nothing left. Still a fan. Bummed |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Douglas J Gordon - 2014-06-07 6:09 PM Fresh horses are hard to beat at the Belmont.
That was a really tuff race |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| DARN IT
LOVE HIM ANYWAY! |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
     Location: In a happy place | I don't care I still love CC as much as ever. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-06-07 6:22 PM I don't care I still love CC as much as ever.
Me too he's still number one |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | komet. - 2014-06-07 6:00 PM Almost...
One day Komet we will see another Triple Crown |
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    Location: South Dakota | Southtxponygirl - 2014-06-07 6:16 PM Douglas J Gordon - 2014-06-07 6:09 PM Fresh horses are hard to beat at the Belmont. That was a really tuff race
Not a level playing field when fresh horses allowed in....all in all...CC made dreams come true..and is an awesome horse...I feel for his owners, he is a man of passion, and you don't get far in life without passion...and sometimes you say the wrong thing...it happens. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| I havent heart a peep about "level playing fields" since this started and now that he lost everyone's bent out of shape??? I wanted CC to win as much as the next person but thats why winning the triple crown is so special. It takes that super horse to do it.
Didnt Curlin run all three? And he came in last. It shows how grueling this stretch is and CC did a fine job and finished with pride!!
Im a CC fan, triple crown winner or not... |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
        Location: Pacific Northwest | stayceem - 2014-06-07 4:41 PM
I havent heart a peep about "level playing fields" since this started and now that he lost everyone's bent out of shape??? I wanted CC to win as much as the next person but thats why winning the triple crown is so special. It takes that super horse to do it.
Didnt Curlin run all three? And he came in last. It shows how grueling this stretch is and CC did a fine job and finished with pride!!
Im a CC fan, triple crown winner or not...
Haha people keep shortening Ride on Curlin's name to just Curlin and I when I read that I got so confused. I was thinking "no he didnt, Curlin got 2nd when he ran in the Belmont..."
but that's the discussion a friend and I just had. CC did just fine for being a baby, never running that far and running in all three races. He just got tired, that's all. And I think his owners plan on continuing to run him so I'm sure we'll get to see him again!
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Southtxponygirl - 2014-06-07 6:13 PM Lobo - 2014-06-07 6:11 PM Well, poo! I even had the black cat in my lap for luck!!
I know it a horse race, but I'd be damn upset if it were my horse!!
Cut the owner some slack!!
Hey I'm with the Owner, I wanted this really bad too
I wanted CC to win as much as anyone, but his owners rants were uncalled for. What he said, should not have been said on national television. The triple crown is a gruelling run, they knew that going in. 3 races in 5 weeks is tough on a horse no matter what caliber horse they are. His jockey said in an interview that CC was empty after a half mile. He should have been a little more tactful about what he was saying. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | total performance - 2014-06-07 6:51 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-06-07 6:13 PM Lobo - 2014-06-07 6:11 PM Well, poo! I even had the black cat in my lap for luck!!
I know it a horse race, but I'd be damn upset if it were my horse!!
Cut the owner some slack!!
Hey I'm with the Owner, I wanted this really bad too I wanted CC to win as much as anyone, but his owners rants were uncalled for. What he said, should not have been said on national television. The triple crown is a gruelling run, they knew that going in. 3 races in 5 weeks is tough on a horse no matter what caliber horse they are. His jockey said in an interview that CC was empty after a half mile. He should have been a little more tactful about what he was saying.
I just hated it when he say that this was a cowards way of winning. I think thats how he put it, its sad that CC lost but this horse is one in a millon to me, Love you CC your still the best in my books.  |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Southtxponygirl - 2014-06-07 7:01 PM total performance - 2014-06-07 6:51 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-06-07 6:13 PM Lobo - 2014-06-07 6:11 PM Well, poo! I even had the black cat in my lap for luck!!
I know it a horse race, but I'd be damn upset if it were my horse!!
Cut the owner some slack!!
Hey I'm with the Owner, I wanted this really bad too I wanted CC to win as much as anyone, but his owners rants were uncalled for. What he said, should not have been said on national television. The triple crown is a gruelling run, they knew that going in. 3 races in 5 weeks is tough on a horse no matter what caliber horse they are. His jockey said in an interview that CC was empty after a half mile. He should have been a little more tactful about what he was saying. I just hated it when he say that this was a cowards way of winning. I think thats how he put it, its sad that CC lost but this horse is one in a millon to me, Love you CC your still the best in my books. 
That is exactly what he said. Cowards way of winning. I understand his frustration, but lose with dignity. |
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Expert
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| It needed to be said I knew the minute he got stuck on the rail he was done he doesn't like dirt in his face |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
     Location: North Dakota | Anyone see the pics that just came up that show him getting stepped on by the #3 horse at the gate and how the bulb of his heal was ripped off? I saw them on my newsfeed on facebook. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Just Bring It - 2014-06-07 9:02 PM Anyone see the pics that just came up that show him getting stepped on by the #3 horse at the gate and how the bulb of his heal was ripped off? I saw them on my newsfeed on facebook.
Oh no I have'nt heard about this, Thats got to be why he was looking slower then what I have seen, poor guy. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
        Location: Ky | We just got in from Ellis Park where we went for a Belmont-Triple crown party. I haven't seen or read these comments by the owner or trainer. But if he is making excuses then he needs to stop.
I wanted CC to win and bet him to win heavily. I thought he would win.
But this is why the triple crown is so special and hard to win. It takes a super horse. CC is not that. He is a very good horse and I would love to own him but super horses take on all comers and win. I so wanted CC to be that super horse. He just isn't that horse. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 742
   
| Can someone explain how long the "fresh" horses have been coming in to the Belmont? Is this something that has just started or has it been this way for 146 years? I am trying to understand this whole thing that CC's owner was talking about. I still love Chrome, he's a cool cat! |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| California Chrome, center, is flanked by Wicked Strong, left, and Tonalist, right, as they run down the backstretch during the 146th running of the Belmont Stakes horse race at Belmont Park, Saturday, in Elmont, N.Y. Tonalist went on to win the race, denying California Chrome the Triple Crown victory. Jason DeCrow, AP Related article » BELMONT, N.Y. – California Chrome’s magical ride to history ended with the harsh reality that so many of his predecessors met. The Los Alamitos-trained colt with the captivating back story fell short of completing horse racing’s first Triple Crown in 36 years when he lost Saturday in the 146th Belmont Stakes at Belmont Park. California Chrome became the 13th horse in that stretch to win the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes but fail to win the Belmont. Tonalist played the spoiler with the victory; California Chrome finished in a dead heat for fourth place. Commissioner took second and Medal Count was third. The loss in the Belmont was the first in California Chrome’s past seven races. He won the King Glorious Stakes in the final day of racing at Hollywood Park in December --- his first race with jockey Victor Espinoza aboard --- and stormed through his Derby prep races. California Chrome then won the Kentucky Derby on May 3 by 1 3/4 lengths and the Preakness Stakes on May 17 by 1 1/2 lengths. He simply couldn’t pull off the rare feat of winning the three Triple Crown races in a five-week span in three states. Horse racing’s Triple Crown drought reaches back to 1978, when Affirmed edged rival Alydar in all three races. Racing diehards and sports fans in general were eager for California Chrome to join the previous 11 Triple Crown winners, and the crowd at Belmont Park roared its support for the chestnut colt and showed up sporting the purple and green of his silks. California Chrome had captured fans’ imagination with the story of his breeding that cost a little more than $10,000 and his friendly connections who turned into celebrities the past five weeks. Others simply loved that he came from California and not some bluegrass farm in Kentucky or that his chrome --- his white stripe down his head and four white socks --- on his chestnut coloring made him so distinctive. Following Saturday’s loss, California Chrome likely will get an extended rest before resuming his 3-year-old campaign. There are plans to pay tribute to him at his Los Alamitos home, though he’s unlikely to run in the July 5 Los Alamitos Derby. Trainer Art Sherman said he believed California Chrome "grabbed a quarter" or injured his right front hoof. When California Chrome returned to his barn, he was bleeding lightly from the back of his hoof. The injury did not stop him from running, but a rival trainer said it likely was extremely painful. "He's a pretty courageous horse to finish fourth," said Billy Gowan, the trainer of Ride On Curlin. California Chrome's co-owner, Steve Coburn, blasted other owners who skipped one or both of the previous two races to have a fresh horse in the Belmont. "That's the coward's way," he said
Edited by stayceem 2014-06-07 9:31 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3300
    
| Yes Matterhorn came down on his right leg at the break |
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 Party Gal
Posts: 3432
       Location: fun meter pegged OK | This newsday link has the picture of his injury........... http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/big-crowd-big-disappointment-at-belmont-1.8368063 |
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 Not Afraid to Work
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I dont see a picture of the injury? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
     Location: NC | After being there i have to say he ran a very good race. Just got home (traffic was insane leaving!!) and saw the pic of his foot. he ran a great race for being hurt |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
   
| I saw the medial side right front where his heel was bleeding. You can see it on the video where they're leading him back to his barn. From the pic at the break showing the outside horse stepping on him they're fortunate the laceration wasn't worse. |
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 Party Gal
Posts: 3432
       Location: fun meter pegged OK | stayceem - 2014-06-07 9:47 PM  I dont see a picture of the injury?
Follow it down about 3/4s of the way it will say posted/updated 36 mins ago |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
   
| kramerica - 2014-06-07 9:24 PM
Can someone explain how long the "fresh" horses have been coming in to the Belmont? Is this something that has just started or has it been this way for 146 years? I am trying to understand this whole thing that CC's owner was talking about. I still love Chrome, he's a cool cat!
I to would like to know how it was in the 70s for the last triple crown winners, im pretty sure they ran against far fewer horses.  |
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Expert
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 Not Afraid to Work
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| yankeeredneck - 2014-06-07 9:54 PM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 9:47 PM  I dont see a picture of the injury?
Follow it down about 3/4s of the way it will say posted/updated 36 mins ago
Must be my internet  |
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 Party Gal
Posts: 3432
       Location: fun meter pegged OK | I'm going to try to get the pic up
(CCInjury.jpg)
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CCInjury.jpg (52KB - 185 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
   
| It's not like they didn't know the rules when they entered. If they were so concerned about it they shouldn't have entered. Had they won they wouldn't have cared. Just excuses and frustration for not winning. That's horse racing. It just wasn't meant to be. There are lots of races(horse races, barrel races, etc) that you think a favorite should win and they don't. Doesn't really mean anything except they didn't have it on that day and doesn't mean they won't win the next one. Just because you're "an underdog" doesn't give you a free pass to be unclassy. There's nothing worse than a sore loser. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
       Location: Opelousas, LA | yankeeredneck - 2014-06-07 9:54 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 9:47 PM  I dont see a picture of the injury? Follow it down about 3/4s of the way it will say posted/updated 36 mins ago
From that picture you can see that it looks like he ran down on his left front (burned the underside of his fetlock) maybe trying to get off his injured foot?
You never know how bad that can hurt a horse. We have had them be fine after something like that, but it can also end thier career. We had a filly get stepped on in a race, looked like a bad overreach but the impact did so much damage that a third of her coffin bone had to eventually be removed after it lost the blood supply and died off. Hope CC is ok and we get to see him run again. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| Itsme - 2014-06-07 9:54 PM
kramerica - 2014-06-07 9:24 PM
Can someone explain how long the "fresh" horses have been coming in to the Belmont? Is this something that has just started or has it been this way for 146 years? I am trying to understand this whole thing that CC's owner was talking about. I still love Chrome, he's a cool cat!
I to would like to know how it was in the 70s for the last triple crown winners, im pretty sure they ran against far fewer horses. 
Mainly because nobody wanted to run against BigRed or Affirmed....LoL |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| Thanks for posting the picture. My gelding did something very similar and it took about 4 weeks to heal because there was some flesh they wanted to reconnect. Hes been fine since (knock on wood) but it definetely took some time to heal. He did it during a run and it was the roughest ride and he definetely wasnt himself.
Almost makes it worse, you never know if this injury hindered him but you also never know what could have been if he had 4 good legs. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | 
(BpkfuR5CAAATwo_.jpg)
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BpkfuR5CAAATwo_.jpg (35KB - 192 downloads)
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 Party Gal
Posts: 3432
       Location: fun meter pegged OK | Had the heart to run the race but no at full capacity. Articles are speculating this was his last race and will now be put up for stud. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
       Location: Opelousas, LA | He ran down a little bit on the right leg too, not to mention it looks like the shoe was bent some. There is no way that horse had been running down in races past or he would have been wrapped. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 514
 Location: NM | I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!!
Edited by Dreem_Chazer 2014-06-07 10:38 PM
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 Not Afraid to Work
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| Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM
I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!!
Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
         Location: Where I am happiest | Nevertooold - 2014-06-07 10:18 PM 
Youch!! |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM
Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM
I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!!
Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses?
There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | aqhabarrelchic1 - 2014-06-07 9:54 PM 
Wow this is a scary picture, its a wonder that the other horses didnt catch CC's shoe and CC go down. I say that the Jockeys were really lucky that there was not a accident. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
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| jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM
Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM
I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!!
Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses?
There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it.
But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Sometimes you need to step back and look at the whole picture. Today the Dumb Ass Partners weren't blessed with a win but they were sure blessed that California Chrome walked off the track today. The angels were looking down as this was about to be one horrible wreck.     |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM
jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM
Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM
I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!!
Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses?
There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it.
But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss
Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM
jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM
Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM
I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!!
Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses?
There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it.
But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss
Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three.
My question though... has it changed? |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas |
You said what I was trying to say , and no Jockeys were hurt, they had their Angel's riding along with them. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!! Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. My question though... has it changed? Not that I know of but it seems in the last decade or so there have been more lightly raced horses that end up in the Belmont. I can remember many years ago, the biggest entered race was the Derby and then you saw the entries drop for the last 2 races and the other entries were from the Derby that were contenders. At that time it seemed everyone was after the Triple Crown and all the eligible horses went for the win at the Derby. Tonalist didn't even try to run to be eligible for the Derby. Where some say it's like cheating, how about saying that the horse was too immature at that point and they waited to let him grow more instead of crippling him? If I could swap never having another Triple Crown winner for never having to see a horse breakdown on the track, I would go for never having another Triple Crown winner. I wish they would hold these horses back and not race them so young.
Edited by Nevertooold 2014-06-08 12:19 AM
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10D Crack Champion
         
| Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 12:15 AM
stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!! Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. My question though... has it changed?
Not that I know of but it seems in the last decade or so there have been more lightly raced horses that end up in the Belmont. I can remember many years ago, the biggest entered race was the Derby and then you saw the entries drop for the last 2 races. At that time it seemed everyone was after the Triple Crown and all the eligible horses went for the win at the Derby. Tonalist didn't even try to run to be eligible for the Derby. Where some say it's like cheating, how about saying that the horse was too immature at that point and they waited to let him grow more instead of crippling him? If I could swap never having another Triple Crown winner for never having to see a horse breakdown on the track, I would go for never having another Triple Crown winner. I wish they would hold this horses back and not race them so young.
If I remember correctly, Tonalist was recovering from an illness/virus or something I believe which kept him out of the other races. I don't think much of anything has changed either. I know only like 4 horses ran against Secretariat in the Belmont because most knew they couldn't come close to running against Secretariat and Sham. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM
jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM
jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM
Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM
I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!!
Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses?
There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it.
But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss
Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three.
My question though... has it changed?
Not really. The dates of the three races have changed. And some of the rules of each individual race have changed. As far as a fresh horse coming into one of the races and beating the favorite tuff cookies it happens everyday in racing. As I said before the only rule is to enter all three races and win all three. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:37 AM
stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM
jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM
jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM
stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM
Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM
I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!!
Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses?
There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it.
But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss
Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three.
My question though... has it changed?
Not really. The dates of the three races have changed. And some of the rules of each individual race have changed. As far as a fresh horse coming into one of the races and beating the favorite tuff cookies it happens everyday in racing. As I said before the only rule is to enter all three races and win all three.
Thank you. Thats what I understood but I have seen people making is sound as if they used to once upon a time not allow the fresh horse in to the 3 race series and thats why there were so many triple crown winners.
Just wanted to make sure I wasnt misinformed. |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
   Location: SE Louisiana | Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 12:15 AM
stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!! Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. My question though... has it changed? Not that I know of but it seems in the last decade or so there have been more lightly raced horses that end up in the Belmont. I can remember many years ago, the biggest entered race was the Derby and then you saw the entries drop for the last 2 races and the other entries were from the Derby that were contenders. At that time it seemed everyone was after the Triple Crown and all the eligible horses went for the win at the Derby. Tonalist didn't even try to run to be eligible for the Derby. Where some say it's like cheating, how about saying that the horse was too immature at that point and they waited to let him grow more instead of crippling him? If I could swap never having another Triple Crown winner for never having to see a horse breakdown on the track, I would go for never having another Triple Crown winner. I wish they would hold these horses back and not race them so young.
LOL!!!! I can't imagine a horse maturing enough in the 5 week spread between these 3 races to warrant that explanation.. Especially since the Belmont is 1/4 longer than the Derby..
I don't think the rules should be changed... It would be unfair to the memory of the 11 horses that have won the TC in the last 138 years and it would bring about enough winners to make a TC winner an everyday thing.....
Edited by komet. 2014-06-08 1:02 AM
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| komet. - 2014-06-08 1:00 AM
Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 12:15 AM
stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!! Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. My question though... has it changed? Not that I know of but it seems in the last decade or so there have been more lightly raced horses that end up in the Belmont. I can remember many years ago, the biggest entered race was the Derby and then you saw the entries drop for the last 2 races and the other entries were from the Derby that were contenders. At that time it seemed everyone was after the Triple Crown and all the eligible horses went for the win at the Derby. Tonalist didn't even try to run to be eligible for the Derby. Where some say it's like cheating, how about saying that the horse was too immature at that point and they waited to let him grow more instead of crippling him? If I could swap never having another Triple Crown winner for never having to see a horse breakdown on the track, I would go for never having another Triple Crown winner. I wish they would hold these horses back and not race them so young.
LOL!!!! I can't imagine a horse maturing enough in the 5 week spread between these 3 races to warrant that explanation.. Especially since the Belmont is 1/4 longer than the Derby..
I don't think the rules should be changed... It would be unfair to the memory of the 11 horses that have won the TC in the last 138 years and it would bring about enough winners to make a TC winner an everyday thing.....
Sir Barton the first Triple crown winner in 1919 only had four days between the first two races. The dates used to be a lot closer in the past. |
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
   Location: Always on call..... | Tonalist was going to be pointed to the Derby, but because of missing most of the prep races with a foot injury and an illness he didn't have the points to qualify.
The Derby field is the top 20 three year olds in points. It used to be graded earnings, but that changed a couple of years ago so that now you earn points based on how the horse finishes in the prep races leading up to the Derby.
There are not any restrictions on the Preakness or Belmont as far as points or earnings. If the owners pay the entry fee they can run their horse. It has always been that way, nothing has changed in that sense. The derby didn't even have to limit its field until it became such a popular race.
The timing and the order of the TC races has changed over time. The Preakness used to be run one week after the Derby. For some reason the year Gallant Fox won, in 1930, the Preakness was moved and was actually ran before the Derby. Then it went back to being just one week after the Derby again. In either 1941 or 1942 the Preakness was moved again to be two weeks after the Derby (Whirlaway in 1941 won it one week after the Derby and then Count Fleet in 1943 won it two weeks after the Derby). So the TC has not been the same since 1919.
Each race was created on its own. After Sir Barton and Gallant Fox both won all three races in the same year the press started calling the feat "The Triple Crown", because England had a three race series that was called the Triple Crown. Even then, the concept of the TC took another couple decades to really become a big deal. Often times winners of the Derby and Preakness would skip the Belmont to run in races with larger purses.
It is a heartbreaker about CC's loss today. I hope to actually see a TC winner in my life, but horses are not bred or trained to race like that anymore. Horses used to race much more frequently so that even if a horse skipped the Derby and Preakness to run in the Belmont that horse would likely have raced somewhere in the preceding 5 weeks. Horses didn't go months between races, so there wasn't such a disparity in how rested they were.
I see Mr. Coburn's point about horses should only run in the Belmont if they have ran in the others, but I wish he wouldn't have been so bitter about it. The TC campaign is very hard on a three year old horse and if you follow racing closely you'd know that not many horses who run in all three go on to ever have much of a racing career after. If you had a valuable and talented horse that didn't do well in the Derby why would you risk its career to continue running it in the TC?? You wouldn't. So then the Belmont field would be tiny every year and there would be TC winners every few years. That's not what you want either.
Maybe a middle ground of having to be in the top 30-40 in points to be eligible, or something like that. Where at least there were still some restrictions on who could run in the other two races. So those races aren't totally open to any horse.
Edited by Dr. J 2014-06-08 1:44 AM
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| Dr. J - 2014-06-08 1:42 AM Tonalist was going to be pointed to the Derby, but because of missing most of the prep races with a foot injury and an illness he didn't have the points to qualify.
The Derby field is the top 20 three year olds in points. It used to be graded earnings, but that changed a couple of years ago so that now you earn points based on how the horse finishes in the prep races leading up to the Derby.
There are not any restrictions on the Preakness or Belmont as far as points or earnings. If the owners pay the entry fee they can run their horse. It has always been that way, nothing has changed in that sense. The derby didn't even have to limit its field until it became such a popular race.
The timing and the order of the TC races has changed over time. The Preakness used to be run one week after the Derby. For some reason the year Gallant Fox won, in 1930, the Preakness was moved and was actually ran before the Derby. Then it went back to being just one week after the Derby again. In either 1941 or 1942 the Preakness was moved again to be two weeks after the Derby (Whirlaway in 1941 won it one week after the Derby and then Count Fleet in 1943 won it two weeks after the Derby). So the TC has not been the same since 1919.
Each race was created on its own. After Sir Barton and Gallant Fox both won all three races in the same year the press started calling the feat "The Triple Crown", because England had a three race series that was called the Triple Crown. Even then, the concept of the TC took another couple decades to really become a big deal. Often times winners of the Derby and Preakness would skip the Belmont to run in races with larger purses.
It is a heartbreaker about CC's loss today. I hope to actually see a TC winner in my life, but horses are not bred or trained to race like that anymore. Horses used to race much more frequently so that even if a horse skipped the Derby and Preakness to run in the Belmont that horse would likely have raced somewhere in the preceding 5 weeks. Horses didn't go months between races, so there wasn't such a disparity in how rested they were.
I see Mr. Coburn's point about horses should only run in the Belmont if they have ran in the others, but I wish he wouldn't have been so bitter about it. The TC campaign is very hard on a three year old horse and if you follow racing closely you'd know that not many horses who run in all three go on to ever have much of a racing career after. If you had a valuable and talented horse that didn't do well in the Derby why would you risk its career to continue running it in the TC?? You wouldn't. So then the Belmont field would be tiny every year and there would be TC winners every few years. That's not what you want either.
Maybe a middle ground of having to be in the top 30-40 in points to be eligible, or something like that. Where at least there were still some restrictions on who could run in the other two races. So those races aren't totally open to any horse.
Yes I agree that if your horse doesnt win the derby I cant forsee them entering in both the belmont and preakness...
You said After Sir Barton and Gallant Fox both won all three races in the same year the press started calling the feat "The Triple Crown",
How did they both win it the same year? Am i reading this wrong? |
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10D Crack Champion
         
| stayceem - 2014-06-08 2:00 AM
Dr. J - 2014-06-08 1:42 AM Tonalist was going to be pointed to the Derby, but because of missing most of the prep races with a foot injury and an illness he didn't have the points to qualify.
The Derby field is the top 20 three year olds in points. It used to be graded earnings, but that changed a couple of years ago so that now you earn points based on how the horse finishes in the prep races leading up to the Derby.
There are not any restrictions on the Preakness or Belmont as far as points or earnings. If the owners pay the entry fee they can run their horse. It has always been that way, nothing has changed in that sense. The derby didn't even have to limit its field until it became such a popular race.
The timing and the order of the TC races has changed over time. The Preakness used to be run one week after the Derby. For some reason the year Gallant Fox won, in 1930, the Preakness was moved and was actually ran before the Derby. Then it went back to being just one week after the Derby again. In either 1941 or 1942 the Preakness was moved again to be two weeks after the Derby (Whirlaway in 1941 won it one week after the Derby and then Count Fleet in 1943 won it two weeks after the Derby). So the TC has not been the same since 1919.
Each race was created on its own. After Sir Barton and Gallant Fox both won all three races in the same year the press started calling the feat "The Triple Crown", because England had a three race series that was called the Triple Crown. Even then, the concept of the TC took another couple decades to really become a big deal. Often times winners of the Derby and Preakness would skip the Belmont to run in races with larger purses.
It is a heartbreaker about CC's loss today. I hope to actually see a TC winner in my life, but horses are not bred or trained to race like that anymore. Horses used to race much more frequently so that even if a horse skipped the Derby and Preakness to run in the Belmont that horse would likely have raced somewhere in the preceding 5 weeks. Horses didn't go months between races, so there wasn't such a disparity in how rested they were.
I see Mr. Coburn's point about horses should only run in the Belmont if they have ran in the others, but I wish he wouldn't have been so bitter about it. The TC campaign is very hard on a three year old horse and if you follow racing closely you'd know that not many horses who run in all three go on to ever have much of a racing career after. If you had a valuable and talented horse that didn't do well in the Derby why would you risk its career to continue running it in the TC?? You wouldn't. So then the Belmont field would be tiny every year and there would be TC winners every few years. That's not what you want either.
Maybe a middle ground of having to be in the top 30-40 in points to be eligible, or something like that. Where at least there were still some restrictions on who could run in the other two races. So those races aren't totally open to any horse.
Yes I agree that if your horse doesnt win the derby I cant forsee them entering in both the belmont and preakness... You said After Sir Barton and Gallant Fox both won all three races in the same year the press started calling the feat "The Triple Crown",How did they both win it the same year? Am i reading this wrong?
Sir Barton won all 3 races in 1919 or something like that. Gallant Fox won all 3 races in 1930 or so. That is what she means by won all 3 in one year....not the same years of course. |
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Expert
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| I agree with the owner If you enter the KY Derby then you run in the final two if you want to win . But 2 out of three wins competing for the tripple crown ain't bad |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
   
| I just wonder if people would be reacting the same or so sympathetic if say, Bob Baffert made the same comments? Somehow I don't think as many people would be on his side... And he's lost the Belmont 3 times after winning the Derby and Preakness. The Triple Crown isn't a race. It's a title (do they give an award?) for the horse that enters and wins all 3 races. There are no other stipulations. The press makes a big deal out of it which is why our focus gets drawn to that rather than the individuality of the races. Don't all 3 races have their own rules within themselves depending on the State? Not like they are getting together and saying let's make all the races "fair". It would be up to the Preakness and Belmont to limit their entries to Derby entries and that doesn't look like it's happening. |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
     Location: In a happy place |
Amen Kathie. My heart dropped to my stomach when I saw CC stepped on at the start of the race. It could have been bad bad bad. I understand how disappointed the owners, trainer and jockey were but they need to just be thankful. I for one don't want to see anything changed with what it takes to win the Triple Crown. How it runs out is what makes it so special. It should not be made easier to win. Thank you God that all horses and jockeys finished this race safe. I still love CC and his connections. |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
      Location: oklahoma | 3 To Go - 2014-06-07 10:01 PM It's not like they didn't know the rules when they entered. If they were so concerned about it they shouldn't have entered. Had they won they wouldn't have cared. Just excuses and frustration for not winning. That's horse racing. It just wasn't meant to be. There are lots of races(horse races, barrel races, etc) that you think a favorite should win and they don't. Doesn't really mean anything except they didn't have it on that day and doesn't mean they won't win the next one. Just because you're "an underdog" doesn't give you a free pass to be unclassy. There's nothing worse than a sore loser.
Agreed. Anything can happen in sports, just wasn't their day. I'm as disappointed as the next person but.... Congratulating the winner should be done. Always. They enter their horses where they think they'll win and even though he's everyone's hero, as he should be, he couldn't do it yesterday. I think his owners rant and lack of class took away from this great horse's accomplishment and it's a shame. When you play to win, no matter how badly you want it, just doesn't happen sometimes. |
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Common Sense and then some
         Location: So. California | I was hoping CC would win too, unfortunately, that didn't happen. However, I do feel a bit sorry for the connections of Tonalist. The track sure went quiet when he won and it should have been cause for celebration. It reminded me of when Blame beat Zenyatta in the Breeders Cup. The sentimental favorite doesn't win and it doesn't bode well with the masses...
There may or may not be another TC in my lifetime, I can only hope to see another.
1919 - Sir Barton 1930 - Gallent Fox 1935 - Omaha 1937 - War Admiral 1941 - Whirlaway 1943 - Count Fleet 1946 - Assault 1948 - Citation 1973 - Secretariat 1977 - Seattle Slew 1978 - Affirmed
It may be, as some have stated, that racing strategy has changed over the years or breeding decisions are different. IDK - Maybe, we just haven't seen that exceptional extraordinary brilliant "once in a lifetime" superstar colt lately... He has to be the 'one in a million', the one that against all odds, runs and wins.  |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
          Location: 31 lengths farms | It seemed a fade kind if started when Smarty Jones was making his run for the TC, of owners and trainers gunning for them, not only to simply win the Belmont themselves but to keep another horse from winning. A "if I can't win it, neither will he" approach if you will. I'm just glad CC is okay, he was going to
Have to have a Secretariat type day to win it anyway with no other horses to help him tactically. It's the one time coming from a small stable hurt him. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
        Location: Oklahoma | Anniemae - 2014-06-08 12:45 PM
I was hoping CC would win too, unfortunately, that didn't happen. However, I do feel a bit sorry for the connections of Tonalist. The track sure went quiet when he won and it should have been cause for celebration. It reminded me of when Blame beat Zenyatta in the Breeders Cup. The sentimental favorite doesn't win and it doesn't bode well with the masses...
There may or may not be another TC in my lifetime, I can only hope to see another.
1919 - Sir Barton 1930 - Gallent Fox 1935 - Omaha 1937 - War Admiral 1941 - Whirlaway 1943 - Count Fleet 1946 - Assault 1948 - Citation 1973 - Secretariat 1977 - Seattle Slew 1978 - Affirmed
It may be, as some have stated, that racing strategy has changed over the years or breeding decisions are different. IDK - Maybe, we just haven't seen that exceptional extraordinary brilliant "once in a lifetime" superstar colt lately... He has to be the 'one in a million', the one that against all odds, runs and wins. 
I think something that most people are not considering is that steroids were not illegal in the 70's. I'm not saying that the TC winners would or would not have won with or without drugs or that any of them were on steroids, but I'm saying that could very well make a difference in how horses in that decade handled 3 close races as compared to now. Look at how Big Brown's speed changed when he was pulled off Equipoise. Everyone is saying that the quality of horses has declined. I don't think that's so. I just don't think that racing is the same as it was in 70's, and I think that there's just so many quality horses and they have to run to run totally on their heart w/no medicinal help....I'm not saying that the former TC winners were on anything, but I do know that it was widely used in racing back then. |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
        Location: Pacific Northwest | The fields are so much bigger now than they were back then too. When Affirmed won the Triple Crown there were 11 horses in the Derby, 7 in the Preakness and 5 in the Belmont. Not sure if it makes a difference but I do think it makes it difficult to fairly compare the horses of today to horses back then. |
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 No Fear
Posts: 5089
    Location: TN | dianeguinn - 2014-06-08 1:02 PM Anniemae - 2014-06-08 12:45 PM I was hoping CC would win too, unfortunately, that didn't happen. However, I do feel a bit sorry for the connections of Tonalist. The track sure went quiet when he won and it should have been cause for celebration. It reminded me of when Blame beat Zenyatta in the Breeders Cup. The sentimental favorite doesn't win and it doesn't bode well with the masses...
There may or may not be another TC in my lifetime, I can only hope to see another.
1919 - Sir Barton
1930 - Gallent Fox
1935 - Omaha
1937 - War Admiral
1941 - Whirlaway
1943 - Count Fleet
1946 - Assault
1948 - Citation
1973 - Secretariat
1977 - Seattle Slew
1978 - Affirmed
It may be, as some have stated, that racing strategy has changed over the years or breeding decisions are different. IDK - Maybe, we just haven't seen that exceptional extraordinary brilliant "once in a lifetime" superstar colt lately... He has to be the 'one in a million', the one that against all odds, runs and wins.  I think something that most people are not considering is that steroids were not illegal in the 70's. I'm not saying that the TC winners would or would not have won with or without drugs or that any of them were on steroids, but I'm saying that could very well make a difference in how horses in that decade handled 3 close races as compared to now. Look at how Big Brown's speed changed when he was pulled off Equipoise. Everyone is saying that the quality of horses has declined. I don't think that's so. I just don't think that racing is the same as it was in 70's, and I think that there's just so many quality horses and they have to run to run totally on their heart w/no medicinal help....I'm not saying that the former TC winners were on anything, but I do know that it was widely used in racing back then.
Wow Diane, this is something I haven't even thought of...... |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | komet. - 2014-06-08 1:00 AM Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 12:15 AM stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!! Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. My question though... has it changed? Not that I know of but it seems in the last decade or so there have been more lightly raced horses that end up in the Belmont. I can remember many years ago, the biggest entered race was the Derby and then you saw the entries drop for the last 2 races and the other entries were from the Derby that were contenders. At that time it seemed everyone was after the Triple Crown and all the eligible horses went for the win at the Derby. Tonalist didn't even try to run to be eligible for the Derby. Where some say it's like cheating, how about saying that the horse was too immature at that point and they waited to let him grow more instead of crippling him? If I could swap never having another Triple Crown winner for never having to see a horse breakdown on the track, I would go for never having another Triple Crown winner. I wish they would hold these horses back and not race them so young. LOL!!!! I can't imagine a horse maturing enough in the 5 week spread between these 3 races to warrant that explanation.. Especially since the Belmont is 1/4 longer than the Derby.. I don't think the rules should be changed... It would be unfair to the memory of the 11 horses that have won the TC in the last 138 years and it would bring about enough winners to make a TC winner an everyday thing.....
Tonalist didn't qualify to run the derby and my point is they could have pushed the envelope even though he wasn't 100%. He only had one out as a two year old and didn't place so I would say the owner's were smart enough to know he wasn't ready and didn't race him again until his 3 year old year. So yes...A year makes a huge difference. Tonalist not only skipped the Derby but he also skipped the Preakness so he became the 9th straight horse to skip the Preakness to go on to win the Belmont so I sure understand CC's owner's frustrations.
If CC wasn't stepped on out of the gates we might have seen a different end result but of course we will never know. I can't wait for CC to heal up and be able to run against Tonalist once again. |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward. Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner. |
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     Location: Northeast Nebraska | The jock rode a terrible ride. The owner should STFU. No, they should not change how the races are run. Hope Junior heals up ok. |
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 Midget Lover
          Location: Kentucky | fatchance - 2014-06-08 5:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
No matter how unpopular, I agree with this opinion also. I didn't like Steve when he was at Churchill, and I didn't like him when he ran his mouth off when CC lost. He should have listened to his wife, who was behind him trying to get him to shut up.
To be a TC winner, you have to win against any horse you are put up against. Changing the rules to fit your agenda isn't going to happen. He knew going into the race there would be "fresher" horses running. If he was pouty pants about that, he should have pulled him then.
I am a CC fan, and was hoping he would win, but it just wasn't his day. Steve could have had a little more class, but instead, showed his @$$ for sure. |
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Expert
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| fatchance - 2014-06-08 4:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
irony... |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | fatchance - 2014-06-08 4:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
FC...Tells us how you really feel..LOL I didn't see the video with his comments until this morning since I left the house before CC lost. I have to agree...He was a real cry baby and I hope his wife kicked him in the gonads when they got home as what he did to her was BS too. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 5:11 PM fatchance - 2014-06-08 4:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
FC...Tells us how you really feel..LOL
I didn't see the video with his comments until this morning since I left the house before CC lost. I have to agree...He was a real cry baby and I hope his wife kicked him in the gonads when they got home as what he did to her was BS too.
Meant to add...I highly doubt that the racing world will miss him with another Triple Crown contender as it's evident they don't get that CC is a freak just like Scamper was and they can breed that mare again the same and will probably get what the breeding of him dictates...Not much. JMO It was a neat fairy tale story and CC stole the hearts of America and racing needed that. |
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| fatchance - 2014-06-08 5:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
You've stated my sentiments exactly! They knew going in what the rules were and that they would be running against fresh horses. They knew they would also have a target on their backs. Mr. Coburn, even after a night to think about it, continues the rant today with the audacity and total lack of compassion in comparing race horses to children in wheelchairs. He is, indeed, a DumbA**....Chrome, the other partner, the trainer Mr. Sherman and the rest of the connections may of deserved a Triple Crown but Mr. Coburn doesn't deserve to be called a horseman. He is a jerk and I hope I never have to listen to him again. I got strongly ridiculed on FB for saying he was a sore-loser right after the race. After hearing him this morning, the term sore-loser was giving him too much credit. |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Let me add this to this conversation. We were with newbie's this weekend to this wonderful sporting event. It was hard to explain Cogburns rant. I doubt they will ever care to watch again. |
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| fatchance - 2014-06-08 7:23 PM Let me add this to this conversation.
We were with newbie's this weekend to this wonderful sporting event. It was hard to explain Cogburns rant.
I doubt they will ever care to watch again.
Because he so poorly represented horse racing and the racing community to the outside world. When you become a public figure and thereby represent an industry, there comes a lot of personal responsibility. Mr. Coburn failed miserably at his upholding that responsibilty. Some will say that he didn't have any responsibility. I, personally, believe if advancing the horse racing industry is of any interest to him at all he did have responsibility. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | I've been thinking about this all day and some say he was an ass but brought up what has been considered an unfair practice of fresh horses to be included in the Triple Crown races. All of the Triple Crown winners had the same hurdle and came out on top. To change the rules now would be lowering the standards in order for someone to succeed. I disagree with that in the real world along with racing. If we never have another Triple Crown winner is better then lowering the standards in order to have one. It would cheapen what is a real feat. |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 4:50 PM I've been thinking about this all day and some say he was an ass but brought up what has been considered an unfair practice of fresh horses to be included in the Triple Crown races. All of the Triple Crown winners had the same hurdle and came out on top. To change the rules now would be lowering the standards in order for someone to succeed. I disagree with that in the real world along with racing. If we never have another Triple Crown winner is better then lowering the standards in order to have one. It would cheapen what is a real feat.
Does it matter? Meaning he knew there would be fresh horses gunning his horse. OH SURPRISE! Personally tired of those who feel they know best when they are new to the game. CC trainer is keeping the class, but not Cogburn. I find it funny he(Cogburn) wasn't more hacked off by his horse getting purposely boxed in. Sometimes you just have to make a point. |
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
       Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | I spoke my mind yesterday in he other thread. I will say this again though. I feel for Mr.Sherman. A good horse person here.
http://www.wdrb.com/story/25722256/crawford-sherman-updates-chrome-... |
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Expert
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| The only change I think they should make is that you should have grade 1 money earned so green horses can't be ran.. If your horse has only won a maiden special weight claiming you shouldn't be able to run it... Jmo... |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | aqhabarrelchic1 - 2014-06-08 5:21 PM The only change I think they should make is that you should have grade 1 money earned so green horses can't be ran.. If your horse has only won a maiden special weight claiming you shouldn't be able to run it... Jmo...
Might want to start adding up graded 1 races for 3 year olds. It's why they came up with the point system.
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
     Location: In a happy place | Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 5:11 PM fatchance - 2014-06-08 4:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
FC...Tells us how you really feel..LOL
I didn't see the video with his comments until this morning since I left the house before CC lost. I have to agree...He was a real cry baby and I hope his wife kicked him in the gonads when they got home as what he did to her was BS too.
I am so glad you said that about his wife. I wanted to say something about it but didn't feel I had the right words. I cannot believe he so dissed her too. At least she has some class dispite her husband. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 2:04 PM
komet. - 2014-06-08 1:00 AM Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 12:15 AM stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!! Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. My question though... has it changed? Not that I know of but it seems in the last decade or so there have been more lightly raced horses that end up in the Belmont. I can remember many years ago, the biggest entered race was the Derby and then you saw the entries drop for the last 2 races and the other entries were from the Derby that were contenders. At that time it seemed everyone was after the Triple Crown and all the eligible horses went for the win at the Derby. Tonalist didn't even try to run to be eligible for the Derby. Where some say it's like cheating, how about saying that the horse was too immature at that point and they waited to let him grow more instead of crippling him? If I could swap never having another Triple Crown winner for never having to see a horse breakdown on the track, I would go for never having another Triple Crown winner. I wish they would hold these horses back and not race them so young. LOL!!!! I can't imagine a horse maturing enough in the 5 week spread between these 3 races to warrant that explanation.. Especially since the Belmont is 1/4 longer than the Derby.. I don't think the rules should be changed... It would be unfair to the memory of the 11 horses that have won the TC in the last 138 years and it would bring about enough winners to make a TC winner an everyday thing.....
Tonalist didn't qualify to run the derby and my point is they could have pushed the envelope even though he wasn't 100%. He only had one out as a two year old and didn't place so I would say the owner's were smart enough to know he wasn't ready and didn't race him again until his 3 year old year. So yes...A year makes a huge difference. Tonalist not only skipped the Derby but he also skipped the Preakness so he became the 9th straight horse to skip the Preakness to go on to win the Belmont so I sure understand CC's owner's frustrations.
If CC wasn't stepped on out of the gates we might have seen a different end result but of course we will never know. I can't wait for CC to heal up and be able to run against Tonalist once again.
I thought I read that Tonalist did run in the Peter Pan at Belmont 3 weeks ago?
http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/10916514/tonalist-hits-h...
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 Proud to be Deplorable
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | I thought I read that Tonalist did run in the Peter Pan at Belmont 3 weeks ago? http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/10916514/tonalist-hits-h...
Yes..My point is he only ran once as a 2 year old while CC ran about 7 times. Tonalist didn't run enough races to get enough points to qualify to run in the derby. Tonalist has only ran a handful of times while CC has run about 11 times I think? |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | I am tired of going from facebook to here. So I shall paste and copy...my own words. Listen people buy a racing form, and handicap a horse along with knowing the breeding and lastest workouts....and never forget the track they like. Coburn has made me a disliker of Coburn....Go back to California you big ole crybaby! Something about the saying of "Stay on the porch" comes to mind. In the meantime I was impressed with winner of the grade II Peter Pan stakes winner Tonalist and thought he could pull this win off, due to winning on Belmont already, and never leaving Belmont up to this race. Something about how they way they trained him and how he was bred to go a route....and the fact they said they wanted the Belmont. Silly me for paying attention. To bad Coburn didn't. |
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Expert
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| fatchance - 2014-06-09 5:25 PM aqhabarrelchic1 - 2014-06-08 5:21 PM The only change I think they should make is that you should have grade 1 money earned so green horses can't be ran.. If your horse has only won a maiden special weight claiming you shouldn't be able to run it... Jmo... Might want to start adding up graded 1 races for 3 year olds. It's why they came up with the point system.
Did no one see the video of rommans saying general a rod should have been scratched? Because he didn't go to the vet barn and saddling ring at the correct time?!.
Edited by aqhabarrelchic1 2014-06-08 8:05 PM
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
   Location: Always on call..... |
You've stated my sentiments exactly! They knew going in what the rules were and that they would be running against fresh horses. They knew they would also have a target on their backs. Mr. Coburn, even after a night to think about it, continues the rant today with the audacity and total lack of compassion in comparing race horses to children in wheelchairs. He is, indeed, a DumbA**....Chrome, the other partner, the trainer Mr. Sherman and the rest of the connections may of deserved a Triple Crown but Mr. Coburn doesn't deserve to be called a horseman. He is a jerk and I hope I never have to listen to him again. I got strongly ridiculed on FB for saying he was a sore-loser right after the race. After hearing him this morning, the term sore-loser was giving him too much credit.
Yeah I got into it too on FB with some people about this. People who were clearly just casual race fans - which is great, I'm glad the Triple Crown gets people to follow racing if only for 5 weeks out of the year - that kept saying how right he was and how unfair the Belmont was. One lady kept talking about how the TC was "all horse racing cared about" and that the TC "was the championship of horse racing". Uh no - the Breeders Cup races are the championship races each year and the TC is only for 3 year olds. There is a lot more to horse racing than the Triple Crown each year. I certainly don't think everyone has to agree with me about Coburn, but if you don't really follow racing don't try to make a stance on something you don't know any of the facts behind. |
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
   Location: Always on call..... | aqhabarrelchic1 - 2014-06-08 7:21 PM The only change I think they should make is that you should have grade 1 money earned so green horses can't be ran.. If your horse has only won a maiden special weight claiming you shouldn't be able to run it... Jmo...
I agree with you. I don't think only those qualified for the Derby should be allowed to run in the Preakness and Belmont, but I do think there should be some restrictions on who can enter. I like your idea on at least having grade 1 earnings. Or be in the top 30 in points standings from the prep races (the top 20 three year olds in the points standings are the horses eligible for the Kentucky Derby).
Instead of just having allowance or claiming earnings. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | darn it my computer died and I'm on my husband cell phone so now I can't join in this conversation about cc so hopefully my computer will get better in a couple days and I can maybe catch up oh well my darn luckLol |
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
   Location: Always on call..... | Here's a good article I found about Coburn.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24583468/california-chrome-owner-coburns-coward-rant-wrong-record-shows-it |
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 Not Afraid to Work
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| What frustrates me is that CC is being linked to a poor sport of an owner... that horse has done great things and his injury may or may not have hindered him yesterday but he sure gave it his all. |
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Ms. Dr. Phil
    Location: My happy place | Check out GMA the owner & his wife were on with a heartfelt apology. I actually think he was sincere and sorry. Either his trainer or wife must have told him what a classless ass he was. I also agree with Billy Reed article below andI believe by his apology he read it. Billy Reed says Coburn 'classless in defeat' Posted: Jun 08, 2014 9:19 PM EDTUpdated: Jun 09, 2014 7:41 AM EDT  Billy Reed by Billy Reed WAVE 3 News Contributor Even before the horses were unsaddled after yesterday's Belmont Stake, the nation's TV screens were filled with the image of the big hat, big mustache and big mouth of Steve Coburn, who has just seen California Chrome the colt he co-owns with Perry Martin lose his bid to become thoroughbred racing's first Triple Crown winner since Affirmed 36 years ago. He was so boastful following the colt's victories in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness that it shouldn't have come as a surprise that he was classless in defeat. Almost literally shaking a fist at the victorious Tonalist, who had skipped both the Derby and Preakness to point for the Belmont, Coburn accused winning owner Robert Evans of "taking the coward's way out." He furthermore claimed that Evans' strategy was "unfair" to the horses who had run in the Derby. In other words, only the horses who run in the Derby and/or Preakness should be allowed to run in the Belmont. After he was done thoroughly embarrassing himself, his wife Carolyn admonished him but he snarled, "I don't care." He owes Evans a public apology. No owner should be forced to run a horse before he's ready and it's a perfect acceptable strategy to point a horse for the Belmont, the third jewel in the Triple Crown and New York's most prestigious race, instead of the Derby. At least, that's the way it has been since the Derby was first run in 1875. No owner or trainer in 140 years has ever criticized another's game plan the way Coburn lashed out at Evans yesterday. It's hard to say whether Coburn is as much of a bad sport as he is a blowhard, or whether he's just ignorant about the sport's customs. Probably a little of both. But his attack on Evans, coming only three weeks after his ill-advised criticism of Churchill Downs on the Preakness victory stand, has stained the feel-good story of California Chrome more than yesterday's defeat. Why did the colt lose? Well, maybe the pedigree experts were right. Maybe he didn't have the breeding necessary to handle the Belmont distance of a mile and a half. Maybe jockey Victor Espinoza, who rode perfect races in the Derby and Preakness, should have recognized the slow pace and taken him to lead after the first quarter-mile. Maybe Espinoza moved him too quickly and didn't leave anything in the tank for the last 300 yards. Or maybe – and most likely – Chrome ran into a late-blooming colt who had the perfect game plan. Of the three colts who finished ahead of Chrome yesterday, none had competed in both the Derby and the Preakness. Heck, given his druthers, Art Sherman, Chrome's trainer, might have skipped the Preakness. But once a horse wins the Derby, he's almost obligated to go for the Triple Crown, whether it's good for him or not. Since the Triple Crown was invented in the 1930s, the Derby winner always has faced "new shooters" – fresh horses – in both the Preakness and the Belmont. It's as much a part of Triple Crown history as the roses, Black-Eyed Susans, and carnations that go the winners of the three events. The 11 Triple Crown winners were good enough to take on all comers. California Chrome was not. It's really as simple as that. Generally speaking, the owners and trainers of the Triple Crown winners all have been deserving horsemen and perfect sportsman. But sometimes a good horse falls into the hands of people who don't deserve him, and that now appears to be the case with Coburn and Martin. Especially Coburn. After the Preakness, he praised Baltimore and Pimlico for their hospitality. But then, instead of leaving it at that, he added that "Churchill Downs could learn something" from them. He later explained that Churchill hadn't made the necessary arrangements for Martin's mother, who was in a wheelchair, to see the race and get to the winner's circle. Coming in the wake of other complaints by horsemen, Coburn's comments were easy to believe. But the facts didn't support his complaints. The Lexington Herald-Leader ran a photo of Churchill employees carrying the wheelchair to the winner's circle. And apparently Martin chose a place for his mother to watch the race where it was impossible to prevent fans from jumping up in front of her. Although Martin tried to soften the sting of Coburn's remarks when he was finally interviewed, Coburn did not retract his statements or apologize. But his remarks about Churchill paled in comparison with his attack on Evans (who, by the way, is not the same Bob Evens who runs Churchill Downs, Inc.). Here's a thought: Maybe the racing gods just don't let cads and heels win the Triple Crown. Even before the Derby, Coburn predicted that Chrome would sweep all three races. Conceit makes the gods frown. Maybe that's as good an explanation as any for what happened yesterday. Maybe Coburn's boorishness trumped the goodness and decency of Art Sherman, the 77-year-old former jockey who was trying to join immortals such Sunny Jim Fitzsimmons, Ben A. Jones, and Laz Barrera on the Triple Crown winner's list. Chrome did not run a bad race. He dead-heated with Wicked Strong for fourth, maybe two lengths behind the winner. He just did not get the perfect trip he got in the Derby. Had he gone straight to the lead and controlled the pace, the outcome might have been different. Instead of becoming the 12th Triple Crown winner, Chrome became the 13th horse to win the first two legs and fail in New York. Since Affirmed last won all three in 1978, the list of horses who couldn't cut it in the Big Apple includes Spectacular Bid (1979), Pleasant Colony (1981), Alysheba (1987), Sunday Silence (1989), Silver Charm (1997), Real Quiet (1998), Charismatic (1999), War Emblem (2001), Funny Cide (2003), Smarty Jones (2004), Big Brown (2008), and I'll Have Another (2012). So many quests have failed that the public can't be blamed for feeling as if they're trapped in the move "Groundhog Day," where history keeps repeating itself. It has the feeling of Lucy from the "Peanuts" comic strip, promising Charlie Brown that she won't jerk away the football when he tries to kick it, but then always does, leaving poor Charlie flat on his back. But there was nothing funny about Coburn's shocking display of bad sportsmanship. Sadly, it detracted from Tonalist's victory. When NBC's Bob Costas repeated Coburn's charges to Evans on the victory stand, he declined to reply because, well, he's a gentleman and a sportsman. Everything, in other words, that he of the big hat, big mustache, and big mouth is not. |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
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        Location: Pacific Northwest | fatchance - 2014-06-08 6:00 PM
I am tired of going from facebook to here. So I shall paste and copy...my own words. Listen people buy a racing form, and handicap a horse along with knowing the breeding and lastest workouts....and never forget the track they like. Coburn has made me a disliker of Coburn....Go back to California you big ole crybaby! Something about the saying of "Stay on the porch" comes to mind. In the meantime I was impressed with winner of the grade II Peter Pan stakes winner Tonalist and thought he could pull this win off, due to winning on Belmont already, and never leaving Belmont up to this race. Something about how they way they trained him and how he was bred to go a route....and the fact they said they wanted the Belmont. Silly me for paying attention. To bad Coburn didn't.
People underestimate how much it means for a horse to already prove successful at Belmont. I hadn't been paying close attention to anything and the day of the race a friend asked me why this "random Tonalist" horse had such good odds. I looked his race history up on Equibase and said "probably because he's already won at Belmont".
Of course then she boasted on FB after the race was over that she picked the winner and knew CC wasn't going to win, but oh well haha. |
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| EXCELLENT article and spot on! |
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    Location: South Dakota | CC's trainer Art Sherman, and his sons are real classy guys...and have been very professional and gracious throughout this whole journey....unfortunately Colburn's outburst has overshadowed them....and his horse. Hope Mr Steve, learns from this....maybe his mama needed to give him 1 more spanking, when he was a little boy....learn to be a good winner and loser. |
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Ms. Dr. Phil
    Location: My happy place | I wonder how the owner of CC felt when he realized the owner of Tonalist was also the owner of Pleasant Colony who in 1981 was in the same spot as CC for the Triple Crown and got beat by fresh horse.
Edited by Palopony 2014-06-09 8:06 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1114
  Location: Mo. | runs4fun - 2014-06-08 5:31 PM fatchance - 2014-06-08 5:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
You've stated my sentiments exactly! They knew going in what the rules were and that they would be running against fresh horses. They knew they would also have a target on their backs. Mr. Coburn, even after a night to think about it, continues the rant today with the audacity and total lack of compassion in comparing race horses to children in wheelchairs. He is, indeed, a DumbA**....Chrome, the other partner, the trainer Mr. Sherman and the rest of the connections may of deserved a Triple Crown but Mr. Coburn doesn't deserve to be called a horseman. He is a jerk and I hope I never have to listen to him again. I got strongly ridiculed on FB for saying he was a sore-loser right after the race. After hearing him this morning, the term sore-loser was giving him too much credit.
I echo what both of you ladies say. I was appalled at Colburns raving---he knew the rules when he entered his horse.
However..... Bob Costas is a big pot stirrer, who loves drama. So Iit didn't surprised me when he sensationalized the interview. Mr. Costas loves doing this cr*p |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
     Location: North Dakota | Just watched Coburn on GMA right now. He gave a very emotional apology. I like Coburn. No, he should not have said what he said or in the way he did but he is a passionate man and I think he was just heartbroken because he had high hopes for his horse and that dream was just smashed and then a mic was shoved in his face. He has never filtered himself before so why expect him to when he is defeated? He was upset and a lot of emotions just came out. I don't fault him for it one bit. It happens. We have all said stupid crap in the heat of the moment we just didn't have it broadcasted over national TV.
Edited by Just Bring It 2014-06-09 8:47 AM
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    Location: South Dakota | Just Bring It - 2014-06-09 8:44 AM Just watched Coburn on GMA right now. He gave a very emotional apology. I like Coburn. No, he should not have said what he said or in the way he did but he is a passionate man and I think he was just heartbroken because he had high hopes for his horse and that dream was just smashed and then a mic was shoved in his face. He has never filtered himself before so why expect him to when he is defeated? He was upset and a lot of emotions just came out. I don't fault him for it one bit. It happens. We have all said stupid crap in the heat of the moment we just didn't have it broadcasted over national TV.
It is one of those hard lessons of life...of which we all can learn from...my wish is that he can learn...and move on from this and truly savor and enjoy the great things his wonderful horse accomplished...of which I am sure he will. He is surrounded by a great trainer, and family.. which will help him...and it takes a big man to apoligize, especially on such a big stage...as I stated in a earlier post...maybe he needed one more spanking when he was little...but hey maybe he got enough of those...and found his way to say he was sorry... |
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| fatchance - 2014-06-08 8:02 PM Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 4:50 PM I've been thinking about this all day and some say he was an ass but brought up what has been considered an unfair practice of fresh horses to be included in the Triple Crown races. All of the Triple Crown winners had the same hurdle and came out on top. To change the rules now would be lowering the standards in order for someone to succeed. I disagree with that in the real world along with racing. If we never have another Triple Crown winner is better then lowering the standards in order to have one. It would cheapen what is a real feat. Does it matter? Meaning he knew there would be fresh horses gunning his horse. OH SURPRISE! Personally tired of those who feel they know best when they are new to the game. CC trainer is keeping the class, but not Cogburn.
I find it funny he(Cogburn) wasn't more hacked off by his horse getting purposely boxed in. Sometimes you just have to make a point.
He obviously handled it poorly and I'm not sticking up for him but he did say in an interview on GMA immediately after winning the Preakness that he thought it was unfair for fresh horses to be able to enter the Belmont. So he wasn't just on a rant after losing, he has been saying that all along. But very poor way of expressing his beliefs.
I saw the view from overhead and it didn't look like CC was boxed in for much of the race, Victor instead chose not to go to the lead. In that big sweeping turn, he was 5 horses wide. How much ground did he have to give up in the turn? He then only lost by 1 3/4 lengths. Would he have been able to hold them off if he had moved on out in front of the field instead of giving so much ground in that huge turn? And it's intersting to note that he did outrun every horse that competed in both the Derby and Preakness. The three horses that outran him were fresh horses. And he did it all with a very painful injury right out of the gate. Something to think about. He has the heart of a true Champiom in my opinion. |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | Just Bring It - 2014-06-09 8:44 AM Just watched Coburn on GMA right now. He gave a very emotional apology. I like Coburn. No, he should not have said what he said or in the way he did but he is a passionate man and I think he was just heartbroken because he had high hopes for his horse and that dream was just smashed and then a mic was shoved in his face. He has never filtered himself before so why expect him to when he is defeated? He was upset and a lot of emotions just came out. I don't fault him for it one bit. It happens. We have all said stupid crap in the heat of the moment we just didn't have it broadcasted over national TV.
I also think he's so new to the sport and got caught up on the ride and easy wins he's had. I hope this doesn't take anything away from a great colt that made a lot of people new racing fans. |
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 Husband Spoiler
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     Location: North Dakota | ride n slide - 2014-06-09 8:56 AM fatchance - 2014-06-08 8:02 PM Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 4:50 PM I've been thinking about this all day and some say he was an ass but brought up what has been considered an unfair practice of fresh horses to be included in the Triple Crown races. All of the Triple Crown winners had the same hurdle and came out on top. To change the rules now would be lowering the standards in order for someone to succeed. I disagree with that in the real world along with racing. If we never have another Triple Crown winner is better then lowering the standards in order to have one. It would cheapen what is a real feat. Does it matter? Meaning he knew there would be fresh horses gunning his horse. OH SURPRISE! Personally tired of those who feel they know best when they are new to the game. CC trainer is keeping the class, but not Cogburn.
I find it funny he(Cogburn) wasn't more hacked off by his horse getting purposely boxed in. Sometimes you just have to make a point.
He obviously handled it poorly and I'm not sticking up for him but he did say in an interview on GMA immediately after winning the Preakness that he thought it was unfair for fresh horses to be able to enter the Belmont. So he wasn't just on a rant after losing, he has been saying that all along. But very poor way of expressing his beliefs.
I saw the view from overhead and it didn't look like CC was boxed in for much of the race, Victor instead chose not to go to the lead. In that big sweeping turn, he was 5 horses wide. How much ground did he have to give up in the turn? He then only lost by 1 3/4 lengths. Would he have been able to hold them off if he had moved on out in front of the field instead of giving so much ground in that huge turn? And it's intersting to note that he did outrun every horse that competed in both the Derby and Preakness. The three horses that outran him were fresh horses. And he did it all with a very painful injury right out of the gate. Something to think about. He has the heart of a true Champiom in my opinion.
I hate reading all the comments about how CC never stood a chance and would not have won if he didn't get stepped on, boxed in, wide in the turn, etc, etc, etc. anyways. I definitely think CC had it in him but it just wasn't his day. I hope he comes back from his vacation and just whoops up on everyone. |
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 Husband Spoiler
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     Location: North Dakota | CYA Ranch - 2014-06-09 9:05 AM Just Bring It - 2014-06-09 8:44 AM Just watched Coburn on GMA right now. He gave a very emotional apology. I like Coburn. No, he should not have said what he said or in the way he did but he is a passionate man and I think he was just heartbroken because he had high hopes for his horse and that dream was just smashed and then a mic was shoved in his face. He has never filtered himself before so why expect him to when he is defeated? He was upset and a lot of emotions just came out. I don't fault him for it one bit. It happens. We have all said stupid crap in the heat of the moment we just didn't have it broadcasted over national TV. I also think he's so new to the sport and got caught up on the ride and easy wins he's had. I hope this doesn't take anything away from a great colt that made a lot of people new racing fans.
Yup. Losing gracefully takes practice! Very few people are born a good loser especially when you have had nothing but success and then to learn on national TV is even more difficult. I feel for him. I am sure he is completely embarrassed and feels that his tirade took away from his horse. |
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  Whack and Roll
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      Location: NE Texas | The one thing we have to remember is that Mr. Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!! 
Edited by Herbie 2014-06-09 9:21 AM
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Regular
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  Location: Florida | Herbie - 2014-06-09 9:19 AM
The one thing we have to remember is that Mr. Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!! 
Big ditto to this we all make mistakes  |
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Posts: 183
   
| Herbie - 2014-06-09 9:19 AM
The one thing we have to remember is that Mr. Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!! 
Amen sister! |
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 No Fear
Posts: 5089
    Location: TN | illlookup - 2014-06-09 9:23 AM Herbie - 2014-06-09 9:19 AM The one thing we have to remember is that Mr . Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!!  Amen sister!
I totally agree Herbie! You said it wonderfully!  |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
     Location: In a happy place | Herbie - 2014-06-09 9:19 AM The one thing we have to remember is that Mr. Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!! 
I am in total agreement with everything you said Herbie. Mr. Coburn needs our forgiveness. And it is so true he really loves his horse. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 830
     Location: Paradise , tx | I think something that most people are not considering is that steroids were not illegal in the 70's. I'm not saying that the TC winners would or would not have won with or without drugs or that any of them were on steroids, but I'm saying that could very well make a difference in how horses in that decade handled 3 close races as compared to now. Look at how Big Brown's speed changed when he was pulled off Equipoise. Everyone is saying that the quality of horses has declined. I don't think that's so. I just don't think that racing is the same as it was in 70's, and I think that there's just so many quality horses and they have to run to run totally on their heart w/no medicinal help....I'm not saying that the former TC winners were on anything, but I do know that it was widely used in racing back then.
You make an excellent point I had not thought about |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 830
     Location: Paradise , tx | Herbie - 2014-06-09 9:19 AM The one thing we have to remember is that Mr. Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!! 
You are so right. He asks for forgiveness, time to forgive and forget. He has a wonderful horse and should be proud of CC. We all make mistakes. No one can ever take away that CC won the Kentucky Derby. |
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      Location: California | The quality of TB's has gone down. Go to the track and look at the lack of bone on alot of the horses. I remember years ago, looking at a filly of D. Wayne's in the paddock and gasped when I looked at her chicken bone legs. We just breed for speed now. No double tough horses around for a long time. Breeding and training methods have given us fragile TBs. My husband has been doing this all his life and he agrees.
Edited by NonaY 2014-06-09 11:26 AM
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 Midget Lover
          Location: Kentucky | NonaY - 2014-06-09 12:24 PM The quality of TB's has gone down. Go to the track and look at the lack of bone on alot of the horses. I remember years ago, looking at a filly of D. Wayne's in the paddock and gasped when I looked at her chicken bone legs. We just breed for speed now. No double tough horses around for a long time. Breeding and training methods have given us fragile TBs. My husband has been doing this all his life and he agrees.
I was at Churchill a few days after Derby and saw horses in the paddock with these chicken legs. They looked like they could snap at any moment. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | They just played Coburn's apology on Fox News. |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
     Location: North Dakota | Murphy - 2014-06-09 11:28 AM NonaY - 2014-06-09 12:24 PM The quality of TB's has gone down. Go to the track and look at the lack of bone on alot of the horses. I remember years ago, looking at a filly of D. Wayne's in the paddock and gasped when I looked at her chicken bone legs. We just breed for speed now. No double tough horses around for a long time. Breeding and training methods have given us fragile TBs. My husband has been doing this all his life and he agrees. I was at Churchill a few days after Derby and saw horses in the paddock with these chicken legs. They looked like they could snap at any moment.
You see them in the cutting pen as well. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
      Location: NE Texas | NonaY - 2014-06-09 11:24 AM The quality of TB's has gone down. Go to the track and look at the lack of bone on alot of the horses. I remember years ago, looking at a filly of D. Wayne's in the paddock and gasped when I looked at her chicken bone legs. We just breed for speed now. No double tough horses around for a long time. Breeding and training methods have given us fragile TBs. My husband has been doing this all his life and he agrees. I'm going to disagree with you, Nonay, that the integrity of the horse has been decreased resulting in a lack of bone. The size of the bone has nothing to do with the strength of the horse, or lack therof. I think what you should be referring to is the lack of BONE DENSITY, which is built and increased by work and ground pounding exercise, not heredity. Smaller/finer bone does not represent weak bone and conversely bigger/heavier bone does not represent strong bone. You have have a large bone and there be a huge lack of bone density due to lack of work, a nurtition deficiency, or both. In fact, it has been proven by several top equine university programs that big heavy bone when stressed will result in catastrophic breakdown more ofthen that it's counterpart. Big/heavy bone also takes alot longer to develop into strong bone and become dense simply due to the size of the bone.
Smaller/finer bone on the other hand is more tensile and more forgiving, and under the same amount of pressure, it has shown that while there still can be injury to the bone, it is less likely to be catastrophic injury. Smaller bone also takes less time to build density because it is smaller in size/circumference. Another thing that makes smaller/finer bone and smaller feet more desireable in a performance/race horse is that it requires less energy to perform the same motion that of it's big boned/big footed counterpart, meaning that more energy can be stored and left in the tank for other actions like that final kick, running home from the third barrel, getting across the pen to make that final cut. What we have with our current exercise/training regimes are locomotives running on toothpics. That's a scary thought isn't it.
The difference in the horses today from what they used to be in the 70's and before is the horse trainer himself. The old trainers would work a horse and prepare them to perform the task that was being asked of them. They would do more race specific training instead of more jogging and slow gallops. About the early 80's QH trainers began moving over the the TB side bringing along their "less is more" training practices and their "more is more" stable size. Also during this time lasix became an allowable race day medication. In that time, people saw horse racing change.....for the worst in my opinion.
Yes, Secretariat was a freak.....but he was trained and prepared to go a full mile and a half. He was not rested and wrapped in bubble wrap and placed in a stall....they worked him harder and faster than most other people were working their horses....it's true....and documented. I don't understand why so many horsemen continue to ignore science and the other aspects of simple phsyiology. Take a human distance runner and put him in his closet every day. Take him out for 30 mintues a day and let him jog around, maybe get a quick half a ss sprint in of about 1/4 of his race distance once a week, maybe once every other week. Feed him the best food and supplements money can buy. Then ask him to come and run a race once a month and see how fit he is, see how many injuries he gets in a race, so how much longevity he has, how much endurance he has, and how long it takes him to break down with these training methods.
Until we have some trainers who are willing to step outside the box and prepare a horse a little differently, try something new, go the extra mile, i'm afraid that things will never change. Every trainer does basically the same thing, so they are relying on that heart to carry them through. But what if a horse had the heart and the body and was actually prepared to go the distance. It can be done, it is being done by a very select few, but it is time consuming and can't be done in barns where there are 30 head to get worked in the morning.
Edited by Herbie 2014-06-09 12:48 PM
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
      Location: NE Texas | Murphy - 2014-06-09 11:28 AM NonaY - 2014-06-09 12:24 PM The quality of TB's has gone down. Go to the track and look at the lack of bone on alot of the horses. I remember years ago, looking at a filly of D. Wayne's in the paddock and gasped when I looked at her chicken bone legs. We just breed for speed now. No double tough horses around for a long time. Breeding and training methods have given us fragile TBs. My husband has been doing this all his life and he agrees. I was at Churchill a few days after Derby and saw horses in the paddock with these chicken legs. They looked like they could snap at any moment.
I'll take all the chikcen legged horses you'll send to me. In the right program, they'll stay sounder longer and be quicker footed than those big, heavy boned, slow footed horses if they are conditioned properly and prepared to perform the job we are asking them to do! Send em my way....I love chicken legs! LOL |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Herbie - 2014-06-09 9:19 AM The one thing we have to remember is that Mr. Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!! 
I agree and I did own one TB race horse in my lifetime and I couldn't handle the stress...LOL
Great post. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Herbie - 2014-06-09 11:55 AM Murphy - 2014-06-09 11:28 AM NonaY - 2014-06-09 12:24 PM The quality of TB's has gone down. Go to the track and look at the lack of bone on alot of the horses. I remember years ago, looking at a filly of D. Wayne's in the paddock and gasped when I looked at her chicken bone legs. We just breed for speed now. No double tough horses around for a long time. Breeding and training methods have given us fragile TBs. My husband has been doing this all his life and he agrees. I was at Churchill a few days after Derby and saw horses in the paddock with these chicken legs. They looked like they could snap at any moment. I'll take all the chikcen legged horses you'll send to me. In the right program, they'll stay sounder longer and be quicker footed than those big, heavy boned, slow footed horses if they are conditioned properly and prepared to perform the job we are asking them to do! Send em my way....I love chicken legs! LOL
I couldn't agree more. I owned a chicken legged horse years ago and almost didn't buy her because of it and she was the soundest horse I have ever owned while the biggest boned mare I owned was a walking cripple. |
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Expert
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| Being involved with California Chrome and as the company that has been supplying his nutritional formula I could not have said it any better. The two owners are down to earth and every day people like us. The emotional ups and downs would take a toll on anyone put in that situation.
Do I agree with him? No. The Triple Crown is set up to make it hard to win, that's why it has not been won in 36 years.
But we all should keep in mind that to win two out of three ain't bad. |
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| Can I forgive him for his atrocious attitude and comments even as furious as both made me? Yes. However, I will say this on the subject of his apology: I don't think he had much choice - he made a fool of himself, I am sure upset and totally embarrassed all of the connections; along with his wife not to mention 99% of the people in the TB racing industry. Do I think he's truly sorry? Yes. Do I think he apologized because he softened his attitude? No.
Do I feel really bad that Chrome didn't win? Yes. I hate that Mr. Coburn got so close to one of the most glorious moments in racing history BUT I certainly hope that as he has time to reflect that he will realize just how awesome, how totally AWESOMEn it is to win the KY Derby much less the Preakness. He will always reflect back with sadness at how close they came to that TC;however, I hope he also feels immense gratitude for what that wonderful horse did accomplish and not dwell on what not what he didn't. |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
      Location: Online | NonaY - 2014-06-09 10:24 AM The quality of TB's has gone down. Go to the track and look at the lack of bone on alot of the horses. I remember years ago, looking at a filly of D. Wayne's in the paddock and gasped when I looked at her chicken bone legs. We just breed for speed now. No double tough horses around for a long time. Breeding and training methods have given us fragile TBs. My husband has been doing this all his life and he agrees.
I don't know anything about the TBs, but I see it in the QH racing too. They are breeding the soundness out for speed. IMO. I currently have 4 OTTQH, they all ran well, two are big, two are small. My big boned 16 hand gelding ran 97 SI, he is the most sound horse his race owners have ever had, he is from older, more foundation race breeding. The other big one is newer breeding, 101 SI big boned, had chips taken out of both knees at 2, and has terrible feet. The other two are smaller, finer boned. The one that is older breeding is 100% sound, never a problem. The newer breeding one is a chocolate mess, race career ended due to soundness and has terrible feet. Some will say that breeding has nothing to do with it, but I believe it does. They were all race trained by the same trainer. |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
      Location: Online | Back to the Chrome saga.....
I haven't read all the comments on the thread, so I don't know if someone already brought this up, but.....
It irritated me so bad that the NBC reporters ran right to Chrome's owners. Why not the winners? Because NBC wanted drama, they knew they would get a sound bite. It's no fun to run down the owners of the winning horse and get the woohoo's and excitement - that's not going to be as memorable than drama. It's way more fun to interview the loser in hopes of getting the dramatic negative. The connections of Chrome have been living in a stressful highly emotional situation for months leading up to this moment and they got the rug pulled out from under them. Of course they are going to be emotional and say things they shouldn't. Emotions will shut off the brain to mouth filter every time. I don't like any of the NBC reporters anyway, especially Costas, they crossed the line. IMO.
Now Coburn has apologized for his emotional outburst and is getting chastized by some for that. Certain people will never be happy, they focus on the negative and can't move past it. An apology is never enough to change their view of a person. We all talk about taking responsibility for our actions, yet when someone does, it's still not good enough in the eyes of some people. It bites my butt. There. Rant over. |
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10D Crack Champion
         
| rodeomom13 - 2014-06-10 9:09 AM
Back to the Chrome saga.....
I haven't read all the comments on the thread, so I don't know if someone already brought this up, but.....
It irritated me so bad that the NBC reporters ran right to Chrome's owners. Why not the winners? Because NBC wanted drama, they knew they would get a sound bite. It's no fun to run down the owners of the winning horse and get the woohoo's and excitement - that's not going to be as memorable than drama. It's way more fun to interview the loser in hopes of getting the dramatic negative. The connections of Chrome have been living in a stressful highly emotional situation for months leading up to this moment and they got the rug pulled out from under them. Of course they are going to be emotional and say things they shouldn't. Emotions will shut off the brain to mouth filter every time. I don't like any of the NBC reporters anyway, especially Costas, they crossed the line. IMO.
Now Coburn has apologized for his emotional outburst and is getting chastized by some for that. Certain people will never be happy, they focus on the negative and can't move past it. An apology is never enough to change their view of a person. We all talk about taking responsibility for our actions, yet when someone does, it's still not good enough in the eyes of some people. It bites my butt. There. Rant over.
I agree with you about NBC not going to the winning owners first too. It was for drama. I also think they knew Cogburn would be a bit outspoken just because of his general demeanor up to this point. They should have shown respect to the winning owners first. I really hated that they even asked Tonalist owner about Cogburn's rant when he was getting the trophy from the NY governor. That was tacky for sure. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 208
 
| sodapop - 2014-06-10 10:32 AM rodeomom13 - 2014-06-10 9:09 AM Back to the Chrome saga.....
I haven't read all the comments on the thread, so I don't know if someone already brought this up, but.....
It irritated me so bad that the NBC reporters ran right to Chrome's owners. Why not the winners? Because NBC wanted drama, they knew they would get a sound bite. It's no fun to run down the owners of the winning horse and get the woohoo's and excitement - that's not going to be as memorable than drama. It's way more fun to interview the loser in hopes of getting the dramatic negative. The connections of Chrome have been living in a stressful highly emotional situation for months leading up to this moment and they got the rug pulled out from under them. Of course they are going to be emotional and say things they shouldn't. Emotions will shut off the brain to mouth filter every time. I don't like any of the NBC reporters anyway, especially Costas, they crossed the line. IMO.
Now Coburn has apologized for his emotional outburst and is getting chastized by some for that. Certain people will never be happy, they focus on the negative and can't move past it. An apology is never enough to change their view of a person. We all talk about taking responsibility for our actions, yet when someone does, it's still not good enough in the eyes of some people. It bites my butt. There. Rant over. I agree with you about NBC not going to the winning owners first too. It was for drama. I also think they knew Cogburn would be a bit outspoken just because of his general demeanor up to this point. They should have shown respect to the winning owners first. I really hated that they even asked Tonalist owner about Cogburn's rant when he was getting the trophy from the NY governor. That was tacky for sure.
I thought the same thing! I wish the owner of Tonalist would have asked Costas why in the world he was asking him such rude and inappropriate questions in the winners circle. What a jerk! |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | Herbie - 2014-06-09 10:19 AM The one thing we have to remember is that Mr. Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!! 
I too agree with you - thank you for saying this so well. If you follow any sport there are outburst like this when emotions are high. Just watch a NASCAR race when they run right up to a driver after someone caused them to wreck. I did not care for NBC's people doing the interviews. Really did not like to guy that interviewd CC's jockey before the race. As you mentioned so well some people own then for tax purposes, etc. and I would imagine may never actually see the horse run. CC's owner has been with him since he hit the ground. Still a great story. Still love CC and will continue to pull for him and his team. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Herbie - 2014-06-09 9:19 AM The one thing we have to remember is that Mr. Coburn is a newbie to horse racing and in their first try they breed a horse for $10,000 that wins two of the most pretigious races of all time. To say one gets emotionally caught up in that was an understatement. Heck, I got caught up in mine running in a $5000 claimer and finishing 9th. HAHA Horse racing is an emotional thing and if you've never owned one, it's like nothing else seeing your horse come down the race track. I can't imagine someone shoving a camera in your face right after that. Yes, he knew the deal when he paid the entry fee, and I agree with NONE of what he said and certainly don't want or think anything needs to be changed in the campaign for the Triple Crown. All I can say is that he was emotional, exhausted, heart broken, and loves his horse.....but most of all he's human and made a mistake. It's my understanding he and his wife just appeared on Good Morning America and he delivered the most sincere, heartfelt apology. I forgive him because he's the first person i've seen in the game of horse racing in a very long time who actually loves his horse. For most owners, it's simply business and a tax write off and once the horse isn't profitable (if it ever is to start with) big time owners often don't care what happens to them, but Steve LOVES this horse, and for that I applaud him. I'm still a CC fan, I think he's a special horse and I forgive Mr. Coburn for the way he acted. The Good Lord knows I wouldn't want a camera in my face after any of those races because there is no telling what might come out of my mouth! It takes a big man to know he was in the wrong and an even bigger man to admit it with tears in his eyes! So I still say, Go Chrome!!!!!! 
Very well said, my friend!  |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Once upon a time the news channels would actually report the news and not try to create their own news. |
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 No Fear
Posts: 5089
    Location: TN | ride n slide - 2014-06-10 9:39 AM sodapop - 2014-06-10 10:32 AM rodeomom13 - 2014-06-10 9:09 AM Back to the Chrome saga.....
I haven't read all the comments on the thread, so I don't know if someone already brought this up, but.....
It irritated me so bad that the NBC reporters ran right to Chrome's owners. Why not the winners? Because NBC wanted drama, they knew they would get a sound bite. It's no fun to run down the owners of the winning horse and get the woohoo's and excitement - that's not going to be as memorable than drama. It's way more fun to interview the loser in hopes of getting the dramatic negative. The connections of Chrome have been living in a stressful highly emotional situation for months leading up to this moment and they got the rug pulled out from under them. Of course they are going to be emotional and say things they shouldn't. Emotions will shut off the brain to mouth filter every time. I don't like any of the NBC reporters anyway, especially Costas, they crossed the line. IMO.
Now Coburn has apologized for his emotional outburst and is getting chastized by some for that. Certain people will never be happy, they focus on the negative and can't move past it. An apology is never enough to change their view of a person. We all talk about taking responsibility for our actions, yet when someone does, it's still not good enough in the eyes of some people. It bites my butt. There. Rant over. I agree with you about NBC not going to the winning owners first too. It was for drama. I also think they knew Cogburn would be a bit outspoken just because of his general demeanor up to this point. They should have shown respect to the winning owners first. I really hated that they even asked Tonalist owner about Cogburn's rant when he was getting the trophy from the NY governor. That was tacky for sure. I thought the same thing! I wish the owner of Tonalist would have asked Costas why in the world he was asking him such rude and inappropriate questions in the winners circle. What a jerk!
Totally agree Rodeo....irritates me too..... |
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      Location: California | You all are so right. NBC stirred the pot big time. Why bring up what Coburn said during the awards presentation to the Belmont winner? The guy was more irritated with the reporter bringing it up than with Coburn's comment. I am seeing TB people (arm chair hadicappers and racing fans) continue to say that he didn't mean the apology and what an ass he is. But hey, they will be the first to sing him praises when he horse wins again. Bunch of two-faced cowards. Not one of them would say it to his face. Not one. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | I think he was sincere and embarrassed when he gave his apology.
I like CC and hope to see him win again.
I personally think the TB world has been ticked since CC didn't cost a bunch of money more then anything. I guess they now can say they have their own Scamper in the TB racing world..LOL |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Nevertooold - 2014-06-10 3:53 PM I think he was sincere and embarrassed when he gave his apology.
I like CC and hope to see him win again.
I personally think the TB world has been ticked since CC didn't cost a bunch of money more then anything. I guess they now can say they have their own Scamper in the TB racing world..LOL
Really? Pretty sure they were happy for him until Cogburn felt he could tell them all how to do it and when to do it. Cogburn was out of control. We hopefully will see CC at the Breeders Cup....and he won't have to travel far for it.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
     
| I read one comment the next day from someone that were in line with this thread....he's new to this level of the industry, he was emotional, etc. They then went on to say that maybe he has a point. The world of the last Triple Crown winner and the world of today with technology at every turn from breeding to strategy etc is not even close.
Frankly I think his analogy of 'it's like entering a triathalon, just doing the swimming and saying you won'. The point the journalist made was does the thoroughbred racing industry keep doing the same thing, or after a century do they look at the new world and say...'Maybe this 'ol coot has something'.
The only thing I know is that I wanted the fairy tale to go on. I've only had one horse that we ran, only 2 races, and it was thrilling, but I didn't really like what you have to do when they're running.
Either way, it was a great ride for the spectators and the country, can't even imagine what it was like for the owners. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | fatchance - 2014-06-10 6:48 PM Nevertooold - 2014-06-10 3:53 PM I think he was sincere and embarrassed when he gave his apology.
I like CC and hope to see him win again.
I personally think the TB world has been ticked since CC didn't cost a bunch of money more then anything. I guess they now can say they have their own Scamper in the TB racing world..LOL Really?
Pretty sure they were happy for him until Cogburn felt he could tell them all how to do it and when to do it. Cogburn was out of control.
We hopefully will see CC at the Breeders Cup....and he won't have to travel far for it.
They were called Dumb Asses long before CC started racing and is why they went with Dumb Ass Partners. I don't feel that was being supportive of their breeding program..LOL |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| I dont see the point in holding it against him... people say things or do things all the time that they later regret. I understand being frustrated, although I dont agree with his viewpoint, I also understand why he feels that way. I wish CC could have done it and it could have gone differently for him at the belmont. |
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