|
|
 1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
 
Location: Southeast, Texas | Who has had a horse that developed this habit. Was it pain, or just a habit? Were you able to correct it? What did you check? I have a mare that has started ducking the first. I'm leaning toward hock pain as she has a touch of arthritis in her right hock. (We run left.. If that matters.) She only does it on a left turn.. If I run her right she will duck at the third. |
|
| |
|
Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
  
| Pain somewhere |
|
| |
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | In my case, I think it was my riding. My horse is too good and too experienced and too healthy to do that on his own accord, seriously. I think I was anticipating and not keeping squared up, as far as body position. Also, sometimes I went to the horn early and maybe asked for rate too early. I think once that happened a time or two, I wound up with a viscious cycle, and attempts to "correct" it (ie: reining off, etc...) would up getting him stiff and pushing back.....once that cycle starts it almost becomes habit. When you have to start correcting for your mistakes, you end up losing focus and time. I would recommend watching several videos and looking very critically at your own riding just as much as looking for soreness and lameness. You can spend a fortune looking for lameness.....in my case, the lameness was between my ears. I applaud your asking for opinions. |
|
| |
|
I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | Poor fitting saddle! |
|
| |
|
 Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | We are experiencing a similar problem right now with my daughter's gelding. He normally has a beautiful first barrel then about month ago we noticed he did not want to pick up his right lead and he acted as if he was going to buck coming out of the first barrel. However, the more we rode him/ warmed him up the better he moved overall.
We went immediately to pain but was not sure of the cause. Had the chrio guy out yesterday and his left hip was out and he was sore up his back because of it. Our generally laid back horse was not happy when the guy was working on his back and hip. Hopefully, we have found the source of the pain and can work on helping him now.
I would start with possible pain somewhere and I would seek the help (or a second set of eyes) from someone that knows what they are looking for. I was lucky to have some good friends try and help us and we proceeded from that starting point. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If you know the horse has arthritis in the hock and the horse is ducking out on the turn, why would you think your horse developed a ducking habit and not due to pain? |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 614
| My trainer said a lot of ducking starts off as pain or bad riding then becomes habit if it is not figured out early. I would rule out pain first. I know I have the problem for both reasons. |
|
| |
|
1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
Location: Southeast, Texas | I do think it is pain related. I am thinking it stems from the right hock, but she never comes off lame or sore in the hock. It is very slightly "capped" and per our vet, she has very minimal arthritis. I ask because I am certain someone else here has dealt with a similar issue. Maybe they could tell me what to look for specifically. Or what I need to pressure my vet into checking. Or if I need to haul her to someone else. She has been chiro'd but she wasn't actually "out" anywhere. Our vet took X-rays of her hocks, but acted as though they would not be causing her to do this. She started ducking during a period of heavy hauling. 2-3 nights a week. The first time she did it was with a lesson student, and she launched her at the third barrel. She turned a perfect barrel.... Before the barrel.... The rider was still "riding" all the way to the pocket. [= This is when we started looking for causes, as she had never before offered to take a step out of place on the pattern. I stopped letting anyone else work her, we vet checked, we chiro'd, and we slow worked some.. And spent a lot of time over correcting like someone else mentioned. Nothing helped. She works pretty slow, and ducks at a run. I turned her out, and she spent about 6 months in the pasture. I pulled her up and hauled her to the arena with me to see what she would do. I warmed her up like I would any other time, knowing she was out of shape, I ran her once pushing to first... Perfect pattern, her same old pattern. Spent some time getting her back in shape enough to enter, without working the pattern, entered her in a race and she ducks. Maybe it's me, maybe it's something I'm doing. I'm not above thinking that. But, I still feel like it's a pain thing.. Otherwise why would it only be to the left? But, seeing as my vet doesn't seem to think things are as serious as I think they are.. This is my way of researching this particular problem. If someone else dealt with a similar issue and finally found the answer by checking ___, then I can start pressuring my vet to check that too. If I still cannot get him to help me solve the problem, she needs a new doctor. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This is a very good thread about a fairly common problem. I'm learning a lot. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 507
Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | I have a mare the kids ride and she is super ratey and very in tune with your seat, it they sit too soon then she ducks 1st. Also, later discovered that she was sore on her front end and she was ducking due to that. If it's not you, then I'd check for pain issues. |
|
| |
|
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I have a gelding that would not duck but would go to the fence on his lefts. Lots of $$ spent at vets looking for answer. Hocks, shoulder, saddle, chips in ankle taken out. He was never lame, no swelling anywhere. Turns out it was a rear suspensory. They can be very hard to find, he finally tore his and he was 3 legged lame after a run. He was off a year but back 100% after healing. Good luck |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | My good horse was ducking his left turns, and when I say ducking he was cutting left HARD before the barrel. I took him to like 4-5 different vets, tried thousands of dollars worth of treatments, mostly for stuff they thought was going on in his back end, before one finally put him on a diagnostic machine and his front feet lit up.
If your vet isn't too concerned about the fact that he hasn't found her problem then I would find another vet. But I definitely think this is pain related. |
|
| |
|
1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
Location: Southeast, Texas | This is why I bothered to ask.. Look at the variation in causes. Not that it has narrowed it down for me, which would have been helpful. Maybe my vet is right not to think it is her hocks, as it could be so many other causes. I have never personally had a horse that ducked. Maybe I am giving her some sort of cue that I don't realize, but I can't imagine what. I don't think that my "ride" has changed, and this problem is new. I do know that when you are up and riding, pushing to your pocket and your horse just detours to the left.... You will look like a fool. [= If you can get her around that one left turn, she runs a very nice set. I am much more concerned in finding the problem and correcting it. If it is her, I darn sure don't want her hurting. If it's me, I need to step it up and get my head out of my rear. I'll try to get some videos. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I would suggest taking your horse to a good lameness vet, it will cost a bit if the vet does everything right.
First the vet should flex all joints fronts and hinds. Then the vet should do blocks on where the horse failed the flexion tests.
After the blocks then the vet should do minimum 3 views of the area in question.
Also if the horse is ducking after a hard weekend my money would be the hock is bothering the horse as with each turn there is a shearing action that will take place in the joint where the arthritis is bone on bone is very painful and it causes inflammation which causes pain as well.
If you are not treating the inflammation, or pain after day 3 I would expect the horse to show symptoms of pain if they already have a predisposing condition (arthritis) to me this is what yours is doing by ducking. |
|
| |
|
 I too, shall remain nameless!
Posts: 2248
Location: Wearing a winter coat...... | In my case, I spent so much time looking at my horses hind end and ignored her front end. A lot of horses will sit to turn but not finish with their front end when they duck a barrel. Might want to look close at the front end. Good luck to you. It is a HARD road to find out what is wrong......from someone who has been there. |
|
| |
|
 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | Okay, here is the thing... horses can be sore enough not to perform at high rates of speed, but still be sound enough at normal gates to not appear sore. Horses can flex sound and still be sore, horses can x-ray clean, and still be sore. You KNOW she has arthritis in her right hock and now she is ducking the left barrel... the outside leg takes most of the abuse when turning (it is the one pushing off while the inside mostly guides around for direction control), go get her hocks (both) injected and then see where you are. If that does not fix the issue, then you know you need to look somewhere else or even at you to see if you are cueing incorrectly. Just my 2 cents and what I would do.
|
|
| |
|
| Speaking from experience it's usually pain related. |
|
| |
|
I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | I posted earlier about poor fitting saddles but it could also be a broken or cracked tree in the saddle. A friend had one that ducked and she had a cracked tree. Fixed the tree no more ducking. |
|
| |
|
 Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-07-02 11:36 AM Okay, here is the thing... horses can be sore enough not to perform at high rates of speed, but still be sound enough at normal gates to not appear sore. Horses can flex sound and still be sore, horses can x-ray clean, and still be sore. You KNOW she has arthritis in her right hock and now she is ducking the left barrel... the outside leg takes most of the abuse when turning (it is the one pushing off while the inside mostly guides around for direction control), go get her hocks (both) injected and then see where you are. If that does not fix the issue, then you know you need to look somewhere else or even at you to see if you are cueing incorrectly. Just my 2 cents and what I would do.
 Totally agree with all of this. I took my horse a few of weeks ago to the vet and she came back sound on the lameness exam but when I started taking her through the pattern at a higher speed she was popping her head up especially around 2nd and when I was trying to stop her. This is a broke horse and I noticed at home she did not want to collect but didn't really work on it like I should so I didn't figure that into the lameness exam. I had really only been legging her up and not really working her on the pattern. Took her back today and told the vet what was going on and showed him a video of her taking a small fall at second in Nov. Well, after further examination he decided to inject her hocks and he got fluid from the left. She is a mare that got a late start on the barrels(last summer) and has not shown outward signs of lameness but she felt really off and I was not happy about her head popping up on the second or trying to stop her coming home.
Get your horse to a good lameness vet and show him/her video of her runs. I would bet there is a 95% chance she is in pain somewhere, most likely hock(s). Good luck! |
|
| |
|
Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| I totally agree with Aceinthehole about them looking sound during vet exams but they are not sound at a dead run. Been down that road many times and it is very frustrating. I had a mare that would duck at the first and run up the fence. Her teeth were really bad and were cutting the right side of her mouth. I had a girl come float teeth on several horses and my gelding's mouth was a bloody mess when she was done. Obviously her tools cut his mouth in the back and he started trying to go up the fence and refuse to turn to the right, didn't even want to lope to the right warming him up. I'm convinced you have a pain issue. It is a matter of finding it.
Also check out your horse's feet. That fungal (black greasy looking) stuff that will get in the crevice between their sole and their frog can make one super sore. I can't think of the name of that. |
|
| |
|
Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| HotbearLVR - 2014-07-01 6:47 PM In my case, I think it was my riding. My horse is too good and too experienced and too healthy to do that on his own accord, seriously. I think I was anticipating and not keeping squared up, as far as body position. Also, sometimes I went to the horn early and maybe asked for rate too early. I think once that happened a time or two, I wound up with a viscious cycle, and attempts to "correct" it (ie: reining off, etc...) would up getting him stiff and pushing back.....once that cycle starts it almost becomes habit. When you have to start correcting for your mistakes, you end up losing focus and time. I would recommend watching several videos and looking very critically at your own riding just as much as looking for soreness and lameness. You can spend a fortune looking for lameness.....in my case, the lameness was between my ears. I applaud your asking for opinions.
that it it on the nail that is i think most of the problem for most people |
|
| |
Ducking the first barrel..