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 Veteran
Posts: 226
 
Location: Middle Tennessee | I know this is a touchy subject on here, but I have a tiedown question.
I posted earlier that my gelding is getting strung out and front-endy. He is also nosing out and getting his head up on the back side of the third. He anticipates the run home. He also noses out on the first and steps past it a few steps every now and then. He has been thouroughly vetted and is fine. The only thing I have changed lately is his bit. My question is: Could he need a tiedown or bonnet to balance? He doesn't do this at home and always breaks at the poll when riding. I think it's just a bad habit. Any advise?
ETA: I switched him to the left a few weeks ago and it fixed everything. However, when I hauled him to a rodeo with an alley and bucking chutes where he couldn't see the first barrel, he was lost. If its an alley he can see the first or no alley he does great. Advice please. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Hummm, you need someone to video you while running so that you can see how you are riding him, maybe your hands are in the wrong place. Why did you change bits? Did he do this with his old bit? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: Up and over to the right | Did you change him to a gag? |
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 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
 
Location: My Own Little World | I also think you should get yourself a good video of a competition run and then a video of you during practice, then compare them. You may see what is going on that way. Also, it is my experience that SOMETIMES when we first start seasoning our horses, they just need to be able to build their cinfidence while they learn how to be on the road. Maybe you are just sending him out harder than he can mentally handle right now. JMO |
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Veteran
Posts: 226
Location: Middle Tennessee | This horse is very seasoned. I've been running him for 5 years. He used to run in a gag, then got overly bendy. So I went to a hack. Loved it, but then he started coming out wide on his third like I didn't have quite enough control. I put him in an o-ring combo with a rope noseband. He did good for a couple runs, then went back to running off on the third. I'm at a loss. This is a horse who I am filling my WPRA permit on. He's solid, until now??? |
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Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | Hmmmmm...... that is a tough one. Maybe a good video so you can evaluate yourself? Do you have someone you really use to coach you? Maybe they could watch you run? Ahhh the frustrations of competition lol |
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Veteran
Posts: 226
Location: Middle Tennessee | My fiance isgoing to do some videos for me. Ughhh, he is usually so solid, so this frustrates me badly lol. |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | RodeoGirlJodi - 2014-07-08 6:42 PM I know this is a touchy subject on here, but I have a tiedown question.
I posted earlier that my gelding is getting strung out and front-endy. He is also nosing out and getting his head up on the back side of the third. He anticipates the run home. He also noses out on the first and steps past it a few steps every now and then. He has been thouroughly vetted and is fine. The only thing I have changed lately is his bit. My question is: Could he need a tiedown or bonnet to balance? He doesn't do this at home and always breaks at the poll when riding. I think it's just a bad habit. Any advise?
ETA: I switched him to the left a few weeks ago and it fixed everything. However, when I hauled him to a rodeo with an alley and bucking chutes where he couldn't see the first barrel, he was lost. If its an alley he can see the first or no alley he does great. Advice please.
In general, a bonnet will generally help get them on their butt while a tiedown will keep them from taking their nose way away from you and getting strung out.
My solid seasoned rodeo horse a few years ago was throwing his head up, nose out and blowing off the third barrel. I put a tiedown back on him, loosely at first, and ran him in it for a couple years. We made URA Finals (pretty tough ammy association in the Midwest) with the tiedown on in 2012.
Last year, I noticed w/BHW help that he was slowing down and hanging up when he hit the tiedown on the backside of a barrel. Loosened it a little and it helped, then a month & a half later we took it off and went back to the bonnet (which I had used on him in 2009 & 2010). That freed him up, and I'm still running him in it.
Which one I would use - bonnet or tiedown - would depend on what he needs help with the most - nosing out or getting his head up. In general if I'm going to add headgear, I start with a bonnet because it's less intimidating, then go up to a tiedown and start w/it pretty loose so they don't hit it too fast and panic. Also because I'm big on common sense, I always ride in the new headgear, lope some circles and do a few rollbacks before I run in it. I've had a couple horses who just couldn't handle a regular tiedown and their reaction to it was not something I wanted to experience during a run! |
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Veteran
Posts: 226
Location: Middle Tennessee | Thanks for the reply!! I've run him in a tiedown before many times, but he seems to slow down in one and hang up on the back side of barrels. I'm thinking I'll try a bonnet because his major issue is not engaging his hind end. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | RodeoGirlJodi - 2014-07-08 11:25 PM Thanks for the reply!! I've run him in a tiedown before many times, but he seems to slow down in one and hang up on the back side of barrels. I'm thinking I'll try a bonnet because his major issue is not engaging his hind end.
Bonnet sounds like the better choice in that situation. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Just as another option, I personally love the headsetter tiedowns found in NRS. I feel like my horses arent as reliant on them. It has kinda a give and take method vs a constant pressure. My gelding was tossing his nose when I began seasoning him and I just put it on losely and it kinda bumped him when tossing his head up on the backside. It was more of a reminder. A few runs in it and he stopped altogether. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| If he's been solid then just randomly started coming off a barrel, then a bit fixed for a little while bits he's doin it again I'm going to assume he's hurting or uncomfortable somewhere. Solid horses don't go un-solid for no reason.
I say this because my mare is 5yo. She is not finished or solid. As a 3-4yo we could lope a 3D time. As a 5yo now we can run a 3D time because her first barrel went to crap. Why? Lameness. Stifle. Left stifle that he pushes off with leaving the first barrel. She currently if I tried to run her would make a 2D run one week and a 3D-4D run the next because she would blow the 1st. She's officially a momma this year while I load her up on THE and pray the new THE supp comes out before the baby lol. |
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Veteran
Posts: 226
Location: Middle Tennessee | He's been gone over by two very good vets. I've let it become a bad habbit. He only does it at rodeos because he knows he can get away with it, he's not stupid lol. I'm not going to stop him in themiddle of a rodeo perf and go around the third 3 or 4 times. That's why I feel I need something to help fix the issue sinceyou can't school during your rodeo run. He got lazy and found its easier to blow it than finish the turn and I didn't do anything right then. Now he's done it a few times and I guess I should have done something about it, but I didn't and now I have an issue to fix. It bothers me when people always assume lameness/soreness after the post says the horse has been vet checked. I can promise you these things: My vet is GREAT and knows his stuff and I am the first to assume a health issue when something changes in my horses and they are then taken to the vet. I care for my horses better than I do myself. I would not be on this forum asking for advice if there were any chance my horse was hurting! I am simply asking for TRAINING tips/advise. Sorry, rant over. This is not directed to anyone in particular and I don't want to offend anyone by any means, but I wish people would consider that others ARE in fact good, responsible horses owners. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | While I'm all for tiedowns in the right situation, I really only think you need is a little reminder for him to listen to you. Do you do any "fixing" drills on that third? The one I like the most is where you come around the barrel and at the point where your path crosses you figure 8 and go back around the barrel sometimes stopping after you make the turn. The reminder is "this is where you need to finish" before blowing home. I'm going to put money on the fact if you emphasize to your horse that he needs to finish the barrel 1st, THEN run home you will have him figured out!
Let's see if my crude drawing shows up.
 (drill.png)
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 drill.png (11KB - 216 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| Another exercise that my trainer has recommended for going back to slow work but still working on the barrels is to set up two barrels at opposite ends of the ring. Lope them in a figure 8.
The distance between the two gives the rider plenty of time to set the horse up for the best approach to the barrel, and the lope between the barrels gets them back away from the hustle between them, and they aren't anticipating the run home because you aren't running home.
Also, setting up only two barrels gets them away from the actual pattern, so you're not overworking the pattern, but still able to work on the barrel turn itself. |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | rodeowithjoker - 2014-07-09 12:12 AM RodeoGirlJodi - 2014-07-08 6:42 PM I know this is a touchy subject on here, but I have a tiedown question.
I posted earlier that my gelding is getting strung out and front-endy. He is also nosing out and getting his head up on the back side of the third. He anticipates the run home. He also noses out on the first and steps past it a few steps every now and then. He has been thouroughly vetted and is fine. The only thing I have changed lately is his bit. My question is: Could he need a tiedown or bonnet to balance? He doesn't do this at home and always breaks at the poll when riding. I think it's just a bad habit. Any advise?
ETA: I switched him to the left a few weeks ago and it fixed everything. However, when I hauled him to a rodeo with an alley and bucking chutes where he couldn't see the first barrel, he was lost. If its an alley he can see the first or no alley he does great. Advice please. In general, a bonnet will generally help get them on their butt while a tiedown will keep them from taking their nose way away from you and getting strung out.
My solid seasoned rodeo horse a few years ago was throwing his head up, nose out and blowing off the third barrel. I put a tiedown back on him, loosely at first, and ran him in it for a couple years. We made URA Finals (pretty tough ammy association in the Midwest) with the tiedown on in 2012.
Last year, I noticed w/BHW help that he was slowing down and hanging up when he hit the tiedown on the backside of a barrel. Loosened it a little and it helped, then a month & a half later we took it off and went back to the bonnet (which I had used on him in 2009 & 2010). That freed him up, and I'm still running him in it.
Which one I would use - bonnet or tiedown - would depend on what he needs help with the most - nosing out or getting his head up. In general if I'm going to add headgear, I start with a bonnet because it's less intimidating, then go up to a tiedown and start w/it pretty loose so they don't hit it too fast and panic. Also because I'm big on common sense, I always ride in the new headgear, lope some circles and do a few rollbacks before I run in it. I've had a couple horses who just couldn't handle a regular tiedown and their reaction to it was not something I wanted to experience during a run!
RWJ this is such a great answer especially the highlighted portion!. thank you! |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Crowned Image - 2014-07-09 9:06 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-07-09 12:12 AM RodeoGirlJodi - 2014-07-08 6:42 PM I know this is a touchy subject on here, but I have a tiedown question.
I posted earlier that my gelding is getting strung out and front-endy. He is also nosing out and getting his head up on the back side of the third. He anticipates the run home. He also noses out on the first and steps past it a few steps every now and then. He has been thouroughly vetted and is fine. The only thing I have changed lately is his bit. My question is: Could he need a tiedown or bonnet to balance? He doesn't do this at home and always breaks at the poll when riding. I think it's just a bad habit. Any advise?
ETA: I switched him to the left a few weeks ago and it fixed everything. However, when I hauled him to a rodeo with an alley and bucking chutes where he couldn't see the first barrel, he was lost. If its an alley he can see the first or no alley he does great. Advice please. In general, a bonnet will generally help get them on their butt while a tiedown will keep them from taking their nose way away from you and getting strung out.
My solid seasoned rodeo horse a few years ago was throwing his head up, nose out and blowing off the third barrel. I put a tiedown back on him, loosely at first, and ran him in it for a couple years. We made URA Finals (pretty tough ammy association in the Midwest) with the tiedown on in 2012.
Last year, I noticed w/BHW help that he was slowing down and hanging up when he hit the tiedown on the backside of a barrel. Loosened it a little and it helped, then a month & a half later we took it off and went back to the bonnet (which I had used on him in 2009 & 2010). That freed him up, and I'm still running him in it.
Which one I would use - bonnet or tiedown - would depend on what he needs help with the most - nosing out or getting his head up. In general if I'm going to add headgear, I start with a bonnet because it's less intimidating, then go up to a tiedown and start w/it pretty loose so they don't hit it too fast and panic. Also because I'm big on common sense, I always ride in the new headgear, lope some circles and do a few rollbacks before I run in it. I've had a couple horses who just couldn't handle a regular tiedown and their reaction to it was not something I wanted to experience during a run! RWJ this is such a great answer especially the highlighted portion!. thank you!
I can't take the credit for that - it's something I picked up on here. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Crowned Image - 2014-07-09 9:06 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-07-09 12:12 AM RodeoGirlJodi - 2014-07-08 6:42 PM I know this is a touchy subject on here, but I have a tiedown question.
I posted earlier that my gelding is getting strung out and front-endy. He is also nosing out and getting his head up on the back side of the third. He anticipates the run home. He also noses out on the first and steps past it a few steps every now and then. He has been thouroughly vetted and is fine. The only thing I have changed lately is his bit. My question is: Could he need a tiedown or bonnet to balance? He doesn't do this at home and always breaks at the poll when riding. I think it's just a bad habit. Any advise?
ETA: I switched him to the left a few weeks ago and it fixed everything. However, when I hauled him to a rodeo with an alley and bucking chutes where he couldn't see the first barrel, he was lost. If its an alley he can see the first or no alley he does great. Advice please. In general, a bonnet will generally help get them on their butt while a tiedown will keep them from taking their nose way away from you and getting strung out.
My solid seasoned rodeo horse a few years ago was throwing his head up, nose out and blowing off the third barrel. I put a tiedown back on him, loosely at first, and ran him in it for a couple years. We made URA Finals (pretty tough ammy association in the Midwest) with the tiedown on in 2012.
Last year, I noticed w/BHW help that he was slowing down and hanging up when he hit the tiedown on the backside of a barrel. Loosened it a little and it helped, then a month & a half later we took it off and went back to the bonnet (which I had used on him in 2009 & 2010). That freed him up, and I'm still running him in it.
Which one I would use - bonnet or tiedown - would depend on what he needs help with the most - nosing out or getting his head up. In general if I'm going to add headgear, I start with a bonnet because it's less intimidating, then go up to a tiedown and start w/it pretty loose so they don't hit it too fast and panic. Also because I'm big on common sense, I always ride in the new headgear, lope some circles and do a few rollbacks before I run in it. I've had a couple horses who just couldn't handle a regular tiedown and their reaction to it was not something I wanted to experience during a run! RWJ this is such a great answer especially the highlighted portion!. thank you!
I have to thank you, too!
I never have really understood the difference between the two. My gelding was ran in a bonnet before I bought him (a well respected barrel racer had put it on him), but I didn't have a bonnet. (I do now as I finally got my L&W Bits order!) He seemed to be running fine for a little while without anything, but he started to get away from me on the first barrel and I couldn't quite put my finger on what went wrong. I put him in a tiedown to for a quick fix for an alley issue (more my issue than the horse! I have been flipped over before and still get scared when a horse even gets antsy) and it helped our first barrel some, but not what I know it can be. Now, I can't wait to try him back in the bonnet and see what we're working with now. |
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 I keep my butt inside
Posts: 3281
Location: Weatherford, Texas | Get a rope poll buster and leave it pretty loose. I run all of mine in one- you never know when they may decide to come untrained. The thing is to leave it loose enough that it doesn't touch them unless they get too far away from you. I usually put it so that the strap while hooked comes maybe an inch above the throat latch. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | LMS - 2014-07-09 7:28 AM
While I'm all for tiedowns in the right situation, I really only think you need is a little reminder for him to listen to you. Do you do any "fixing" drills on that third? The one I like the most is where you come around the barrel and at the point where your path crosses you figure 8 and go back around the barrel sometimes stopping after you make the turn. The reminder is "this is where you need to finish" before blowing home. I'm going to put money on the fact if you emphasize to your horse that he needs to finish the barrel 1st, THEN run home you will have him figured out!
Let's see if my crude drawing shows up.
I agree with this. I think counter arcing and doing figure 8's get overlooked too many times. Both will help soften the body, but still keep the feet moving and not be so lazy. |
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Veteran
Posts: 226
Location: Middle Tennessee | Thanks for all the replies! I do drills at home, but just the generic go around it more than once and leave it goin towards the fence. I was hoping someone could give me some new ideas. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | RodeoGirlJodi - 2014-07-08 6:42 PM I know this is a touchy subject on here, but I have a tiedown question.
I posted earlier that my gelding is getting strung out and front-endy. He is also nosing out and getting his head up on the back side of the third. He anticipates the run home. He also noses out on the first and steps past it a few steps every now and then. He has been thouroughly vetted and is fine. The only thing I have changed lately is his bit. My question is: Could he need a tiedown or bonnet to balance? He doesn't do this at home and always breaks at the poll when riding. I think it's just a bad habit. Any advise?
ETA: I switched him to the left a few weeks ago and it fixed everything. However, when I hauled him to a rodeo with an alley and bucking chutes where he couldn't see the first barrel, he was lost. If its an alley he can see the first or no alley he does great. Advice please.
If he is getting strung out and front endy and then throwing his head on the back of the turn, I would be looking at the approach to the barrel and how far off the turn you are.
In my experience if I get my horse too far off the turn and he has to reach for it, it throws him off balance, he gets strung out, immediately falls on his front end, and then his head comes up because his body isn't in the correct position to turn the barrel. Several people have told me to throw a tie down on my guy, but I know if I position him correctly so he doesn't have to reach for the turn, rather he gathers and stays engaged, he gets low and gritty on the turn and his head and neck stay in the proper position.
If you think he is anticipating the run home, he may very well be in a hurry to turn it and is starting your turn too soon. I don't know I haven't seen a video.
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 Veteran
Posts: 212
| my horse runs in a hack and pulls off the third. I cant say for sure whether your issues are related but I can say most horses that bow off the third do it because either a) we give them to much pocket approaching third hoping to make them finish once in this habit and the wider you go in the wider they come out b) personally my biggest thing is I get down there and the horse tries to come in on the back so I kind of safety up to slide past the back and then she takes her nose and runs.. Im sure you've seen someone do this. C) they know its the last turn and just take their head/ tune you out... What has worked very well for me is turning the third once in slow or fast work and then turning again like I am going to go around again or do the side exit.. but then when I come around the first part of the third for the second time going straight past it and to the back fence... in a straight line if that makes sense? Because all horses know the ole' over finish and go out to side trick ;) sorry if this doesn't make sense but what I would suggest is going a little deeper on the barrel for a fewer runs.. like straighter longer, but making the horse come straight in and straight out on the first and last leg of it. It fixed my horse. |
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