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| wanted to know if the saying (the harder they are to break the better they turn out) is true, has anyone had one that was hard to start but ended up being the best horse they had?..... hope i'm not asking a stupid question. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | it really depends on what you mean by tough. Like broncy and unwilling...that doesn't usually change.
I have one now I just love to ride and he is a total turd otherwise. He just acts like he is scared of people in a hard headed kind of way. Snorts when I brush him or move too fast, but it is all a show. I get on him and can smack him with a rein to go, nothing seems to bother him under saddle and he has maybe 60 rides. He's super fun to ride, just irritating otherwise. I do think he will come around once we develop a relationship so to speak. His full brother was as kind and sweet as the day is long. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| I think there might be some truth to that. Got a gelding that was hard to get broke. No buck but he would think up 1000 different ways to NOT have to do what you asked. Way to smart for his own good, mess up and do something wrong and he would hold on to it forever! Bull headed, stubborn, but... Once I got him going the right direction, by 4 you could do anything you wanted with him. The type of horse you could work calves all day on, load him up and take him to a race and he'd still put out 110%. Make a smokin run on, and through a kid on him right out the gate and he'd turn into a turtle. Once he got about 8, he was definition of automatic in about everything. Haven't found another like him yet. :( |
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 Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377
Location: NC | I have one now that seems pretty lazy and a little hardheaded which had me worried. but my friend who is a barrel trainer assured me that her top 1D/rodeo mare was the same way if not worse. Said she was super lazy and you would have to really get after her to get into a lope, then she would buck. but know she is the best horse on the farm. A super fast hard running mare that will suck up a barrel. I hope my girl turns out to be half as good as hers!! Good luck! |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | FlyingJT - 2014-07-10 10:00 PM I think there might be some truth to that. Got a gelding that was hard to get broke. No buck but he would think up 1000 different ways to NOT have to do what you asked. Way to smart for his own good, mess up and do something wrong and he would hold on to it forever! Bull headed, stubborn, but... Once I got him going the right direction, by 4 you could do anything you wanted with him. The type of horse you could work calves all day on, load him up and take him to a race and he'd still put out 110%. Make a smokin run on, and through a kid on him right out the gate and he'd turn into a turtle. Once he got about 8, he was definition of automatic in about everything. Haven't found another like him yet. :(
YES!!! That is exactly how this gelding is. I halter broke him and OMG I wanted to kill him. We rope them to halter break and he would give great to the rope, lead like a gem, but as soon as I reached out to tough him, he would lean just as far as he could from my hand. Not a bit afraid of me, just wasn't going to be touched. I could get a stick or a pipe or anything else and reach out and touch him all over, but not with my hand.
We sent him off to be started and he loved him, said he was a pill to catch, but great to ride. It was the truth. I round penned him here when he came back and got him to where when I said WHOA I damn well mean it and he learned to be caught. I do think he will be a good one, he is already showing his talent. Has a ton of work ethic. |
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Location: South Dakota | Had a plain brown mare that I bought as a yearling...she could be lazy..broncy..a mind of her own...got bucked off a time or two..or three!
She also had a great long stride and could gather and turn a barrel like no other...She took me to the Canadian Finals...and made dreams come true for me.
On the flip side...had a very nice gelding...very sweet and willing...he made dreams come true for me too...doing great at the Calgary Stampede.
Working on my next dream maker these days! |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | I would say there's something to that. My 3.5yo was a baby who hated people. I've had him since birth, and when he was born he would shy and run from everyone. It got to where I could work with him in the stall only, hated to be halter broke, tying and leading was a pain, and if he was out he wouldn't let me near. I learned from a lady who had his mom that she was 'difficult' when she was younger, but she was unsure if it was the mare or the aggressive reining barn she was in before her.
Fast forward to yearling year and he gets better about doing stuff with people, but still prefers me over my husband quite readily. Quite skittish. He was started last summer and ridden on and off throughout the summer by me pretty decently. He was doing pretty good, but didn't want to be pushed. Has had the fall/winter/spring off since I was pregnant. He's been ridden a bit and hauled once this year to 'see the sights' and has been pretty decent and felt pretty solid. He definitely needs to get out more and I would love to have time to ride and haul him more, but at the same time I think the time off over the winter did him a lot of good. He 'wants' to be ridden this year. Just for fun, here's some pics:
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | moeman17 - 2014-07-10 10:01 PM wanted to know if the saying (the harder they are to break the better they turn out) is true, has anyone had one that was hard to start but ended up being the best horse they had?..... hope i'm not asking a stupid question.
I don't think it's exactly true. There are some horses that are just RANK when you start them, and never turn into anything worth a darn.
But that being said, I think all of the truly exceptional horses do have their quirks. Different quirks for different horses.
Kinda like the other saying, too... I have a 3yo in my barn now I swear needs to be put in a bubble! It's just one thing after another I'm doctoring on or fixing, pretty sure that means she's gonna be awesome though! Lol! You can't kill the crappy ones if you try! |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I don't think it's necessarily true that they will make the "best" horse, but just because a horse is tough to start doesn't mean they will be hard to handle their entire lives. We had some younger horses that were really broncy up until they were like 6 but once they outgrew that phase, they were done with it. On the other hand I bought an unhalterbroke yearling who was spooky and scared to death of people, movement, sounds (like velcro of a fly mask or a lead rope snapping to a halter) and I thought she was going to be rank to start and that's actually where she was most comfortable. No buck or spook under saddle, ever, and super easy and willing to learn. |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Easy colts make easy horses. Tough colts keep the meat buyers in business. |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I have had somecolts break out great and once they got some age on them and got more sure of themselves they turned into a bronc. Then I've had some horses that were much tougher to nreak turn out to be the best horses I've ever had. I think tough horses make better horsemen and that may be why they turn out better! Tough horses you work a lot harder on and I think that could be why they turn out better! |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Whiteboy - 2014-07-11 12:14 PM
Easy colts make easy horses. Tough colts keep the meat buyers in business.
Especially for those that don't know how to make a tough horse an easy horse. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Some horses are pleasers, some need to be convinced, some will never get there no matter what you do. I don't think they have to be difficult to be winners, although the really good ones usually have some quirks that have to be worked through or accepted and worked around (in other words, wouldn't suit just anyone). I have won on easy ones, quirky ones, and some that took a lot of work to bring around. I have never been successful with the ones that absolutely didn't want to work and had rather see blood than sweat. If someone else can get through to those, more power to them. I don't mind a challenge, but I like being healthy and whole... |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| ^^^^^^ Nailed it. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-11 10:35 AM Some horses are pleasers, some need to be convinced, some will never get there no matter what you do. I don't think they have to be difficult to be winners, although the really good ones usually have some quirks that have to be worked through or accepted and worked around (in other words, wouldn't suit just anyone). I have won on easy ones, quirky ones, and some that took a lot of work to bring around. I have never been successful with the ones that absolutely didn't want to work and had rather see blood than sweat. If someone else can get through to those, more power to them. I don't mind a challenge, but I like being healthy and whole... ^^^ This. 
And you have to decide how much horse you can work with. Some people just aren't able to work well with a tough horse. Just because they are tough, doesn't mean that translates into a good horse in the end either. I know when I was younger I had some that were tough to get by, try you every time. Only one out of a half dozen of them worked out really well. The rest were pukes who were difficult and didn't want to work for a living. I had some that put more effort into trying to get out of doing what you wanted than it would take for them to just DO IT! I don't have those kind anymore. I won't raise that kind either. I gelded a beautiful, gray, well bred son of a now famous barrel sire because I test bred him to some nice mares and he gave me babies that wanted to fight about every dang thing. Now I have a stud that puts nice minded babies on the ground out of those same mares. Doesn't mean that some of them aren't a bit like the mares or need to be worked with some. But they aren't always trying to outthink you to do the WRONG thing or waiting for you to be thinking about something else and screw you.
I've never had someone come ask me for the rankest sucker I have. So I have to assume nobody really wants one like that. Some people can make one like that into a good horse. We hear about those success stories all the time. But you don't hear about the 6495165419541 that were tried and stayed pukes. I know a lot more horses that are nice to get along with AND are really good at their jobs. It's not necessary for them to be tough to be a good horse. Disposition is really high on my list of priorities. 
Edited by OregonBR 2014-07-11 3:42 PM
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Fairweather - 2014-07-11 12:28 PM Whiteboy - 2014-07-11 12:14 PM Easy colts make easy horses. Tough colts keep the meat buyers in business. Especially for those that don't know how to make a tough horse an easy horse.
There are certainly many between the two extremes. I do agree that the better the trainer the fewer tough horses. |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| I don't know if the saying is true or not but here's hoping. Mine is 6 this year. He is quirky, mischievous, more playful than any horse I've ever been around or on, and too smart for his own good. When he was born he was super sweet, within 6 months he didn't want to be caught, liked having his way in the pasture. He was super easy to break to the saddle but put a person on and he could not be trusted to not buck. I had to send him off at 4 for 30 days (and I should have done it at 3) but it was money well spent. Been bucked off a few times but this year he has behaved himself. And now he comes to me or waits and he never runs from me (knocking on wood as I type this). He WANTS to work but if I don't cinch him up gradually (and I do this anyway) and longe him for a few minutes when he's had time off he will think about bucking. It irritates the ever loving H E double hockey sticks out of me but something tells me to keep going with him. At the beginning of this year I told him if he didn't come around he was going down the road and well, he is slowly but surely getting there. He has been super slow to mature and I think he's always going to be goofy but he is really coming around on the pattern and I am just going to build on that. I have always said horses don't get their brains till they turn 10 and that is now coming back to haunt me but what the heck, I've only got 4 more years to go. |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | I hope there's some truth to it.
I have a 4 y/o that I want to kill most days. He's not bucked (knock on wood!!!) for three months now, but holy smokes he wears me OUT!
I have sent him out three times, not really his fault, just the way it worked out. The guy that started him told me to be careful where we went next b/c he wasn't going to fit into the typical trainer mold. And, boy didn't he! lol!
I won't mind so much that it's taken this long to get him going if he turns out decent. I hope the last couple of months are a glimpse of that! |
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | I think too that it is a lot of genetics and the way they have been handled. Those who handle a horse is a trainer good or bad. |
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 Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | In my experience the broncy and unwilling ones do NOT turn out best because the best horses are willing and give their all to you. All of the broncy ones I've owned turned out to be nothing more than trail horses, and most of them were related. I will NOT own another horse bred like them. It was a huge disappointment because they were all built the right way and gorgeous, but all ornery and unwilling from the time they were born. I had them from different ages (some I night as 4 yos and others I raised from birth or bought very young, trained by different people and all handled right) |
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | My best horses were/are a joy to handle and train. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | OregonBR - 2014-07-11 12:56 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-11 10:35 AM Some horses are pleasers, some need to be convinced, some will never get there no matter what you do. I don't think they have to be difficult to be winners, although the really good ones usually have some quirks that have to be worked through or accepted and worked around (in other words, wouldn't suit just anyone). I have won on easy ones, quirky ones, and some that took a lot of work to bring around. I have never been successful with the ones that absolutely didn't want to work and had rather see blood than sweat. If someone else can get through to those, more power to them. I don't mind a challenge, but I like being healthy and whole... ^^^ This.
And you have to decide how much horse you can work with. Some people just aren't able to work well with a tough horse. Just because they are tough, doesn't mean that translates into a good horse in the end either. I know when I was younger I had some that were tough to get by, try you every time. Only one out of a half dozen of them worked out really well. The rest were pukes who were difficult and didn't want to work for a living. I had some that put more effort into trying to get out of doing what you wanted than it would take for them to just DO IT! I don't have those kind anymore. I won't raise that kind either. I gelded a beautiful, gray, well bred son of a now famous barrel sire because I test bred him to some nice mares and he gave me babies that wanted to fight about every dang thing. Now I have a stud that puts nice minded babies on the ground out of those same mares. Doesn't mean that some of them aren't a bit like the mares or need to be worked with some. But they aren't always trying to outthink you to do the WRONG thing or waiting for you to be thinking about something else and screw you.
I've never had someone come ask me for the rankest sucker I have. So I have to assume nobody really wants one like that. Some people can make one like that into a good horse. We hear about those success stories all the time. But you don't hear about the 6495165419541 that were tried and stayed pukes. I know a lot more horses that are nice to get along with AND are really good at their jobs. It's not necessary for them to be tough to be a good horse. Disposition is really high on my list of priorities.
I agree with this. A stallion/mare that produce user friendly babies are always easy to sell. My stallion was one anyone could have gotten along with. I used to joke that he was a big dummy because anyone, even with rough hands, could have jerked him around and I think he would have tried his heart out for them. I notice most of his babies are that way. It can be sad because they sure take a lot of crap from some poor riders, but they don't change hands often either I guess. |
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Veteran
Posts: 171
| I have a 4 year old that rode better and more willing as a 2 year old. Loved him as a 2 year, not so much now.
You would think the more you ride them the better they would get. Nope, full brother was the same way.
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 Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| If one is tough to start, it leaves my house......why fight when there are willing ones. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I would much rather break one thats good mind and willing to learn then to fight. Had one years ago, was the hardest thing to break, I should have know better at the start of breaking him to just get rid of him, but my pride got in the way and kept at it, so then send him over to a friend I needed help with this one, then did do good for awhile, all fell apart with this one gelding, all this horse wanted to do was fight, and then took him to another trainer. Never ever again, will I waste my time on any horses that dont have the want to.
I was really young back then and my darn pride just took over.  |
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 Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | Sometimes it's the handler. I have observed a "trainer" struggle with a horse, sent it home, owner didn't give up. She was able to do more with that horse in a few weeks than that 'trainer" did in months. Not everyone can ride anything. This horse it turns out is the nicest ride, willing and smart. Find a new trainer if you believe in that horse. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489
| I really think it depends on the mind and the attitude of the colt. I think there is a difference between an unwilling/onery colt and one that is scared, or wired a little hotter - spooky...whatever. I prefer the "quirky" colts. I think they have more guts and try. I will not mess with the ones that are LOOKING for a fight. If the mind is resistant - they aren't going to stay honest. You'll have to make them do somthing, and they will find a way to cheat you. I don't care about a spooky colt, as long as they don't loose their mind when spooked. If I can feel them trying to stay with me, then time and patience probably will get you to a good spot.
I don't mind a colt that bucks at first. They gotta learn the ropes. I'll ride a cold backed horse if it's honest. Be cold-backed when first saddled and then be over it. Those suckers that buck after 30 minutes are those looking for a fight type. Not worth messing with.
The mind is what matters. They gotta want to try and work. The best horse I've ever had the prvilage of riding was tough to get along with as a colt. First ride lasted 2 hours, because he freaked every time you went to get off. I'd stepped up and down in the stirrup many times, laid over him, rubbed all over his body while laying over him. He never bucked. Didn't mind me on him - but he wasn't gonna take that getting off stuff. He saw a lot of things! Took a LONG time to season. Trotted barrels for a whole year because he wasn't ready to lope. Did a lot of other types of riding. Took a long time to season. When he was 8- he was a solid, BAD cat, that could run with the big dogs. Coulda blowed up easy, but with time and patience - become a really solid rodeo horse. I'd go through it again in a heartbeat.
You can feel the difference between "quirky' and "counterfit". |
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