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 Goat Giver
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What is your opinion of some of these? Kinsey and I will be discussing them at length.
For each of the following 10 examples (1) decide which amendment is involved, (2) and which rights are being violated. (3) What is the right thing to do according to The Bill of Rights?
Then, write a 100-200 word paragraph explain which amendment you think is the most important for the protection of your rights and why.
1. You hear a knock at the door. You open it and find 2 police officers asking if they can come into your home to talk about a family member of yours. You say yes. While sitting in the living room, one of the officers sees a bomb on your shelf and confiscates it. You are arrested.
2. You are planning a public meeting to protest a new law. You have filed all of your permits and the city has said that you can have this meeting. The night before the meeting, however, the mayor finds out that you were arrested 4 years ago in another town for starting a riot. On the day of the meeting, police show up to prevent you from holding the meeting.
3. You have lived in your home for 15 years. During that time the city has grown and there are not enough roads. The sheriff comes to your house and tells you that you have to move because a new road was going to be built right through your property. You tell the officer that you like living there and don’t want to move. He tells you, "Too bad, you have 30 days to get out."
4. The principal at the high school in your town decides that all students can have extra holidays from school for the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Most of the students were happy, but some parents were mad because they didn't have baby-sitters.
5. You are a new immigrant to the United States. One night you were coming out of a store and the police arrested you for stealing. You said you didn't do anything, but the police were convinced that they had the right person. When you told them that you wanted a lawyer, one of the policemen said, "You don't need a lawyer, I know that you're guilty. People from your country are always stealing. We're locking you up and throwing away the key."
6. You were arrested, tried, and convicted of kidnapping. There was no doubt that you were guilty. The judge said, "I can either send you to prison for 12 years or I can make you shave your head and stand in the middle of the freeway and dodge traffic for 8 hours a day so that you will know what it is like to be scared to death. Prison is too good for you."
7. You have worked in the same place for 17 years and only had one raise. You felt like your boss owed you something, so you took a computer. When the boss found out, he had you arrested. You asked for a trial because you said you were innocent. But the police said you didn't get a trial because they already caught you with the stolen computer, you were guilty.
8. At a gun collecting show, you picked out 5 guns that you wanted to add to your collection of guns from the 1800’s. When you tried to pay for the guns, you were told that you weren’t allowed to take so many guns. You could only buy 2 guns because the Constitution allows citizens to have one gun per adult family member.
9. Your friends robbed a liquor store. You did not help because you were at home sick. The police arrested the whole group including you. At the trial, you said that you were innocent and could prove it because you had witnesses. However, your witnesses were your friends, and if they said you weren’t there, it would mean that they were at the liquor store.
10. Your city is in a state of emergency. For 6 days there have been riots and fires. The National Guard was called to restore peace. When officers show up at your door demanding some food and a place to sleep, you were so afraid of their guns that you let them in and gave them what they wanted.
Edited by kmcsunshine 2014-07-13 4:25 PM
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  Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Interesting set of scenarios.
I answered all of them off the top of my head. I am looking forward to what kind of responses The Opposite of The Aisle will provide (if any).
Also, who will have to 'look up' which scenario falls under what pertinent Amendment.
Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment.
Thank You Tia for sharing! 
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | foundation horse - 2014-07-13 5:02 PM Interesting set of scenarios.
I answered all of them off the top of my head. I am looking forward to what kind of responses The Opposite of The Aisle will provide (if any ).
Also, who will have to 'look up' which scenario falls under what pertinent Amendment.
Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment.
Thank You Tia for sharing!
I stopped reading after no. 1 because I'm exhausted from the weekend. It's clearly outlined in the fourth amendment but I did want to ask you clay, what opposite side of the aisle? Those of us with children in public school?
Btw, i had Barney fife and his twin come to my door at 2 a.m. and ask to enter. Said my alarm had given an alert to trouble inside my home. That was the first red flag but I told them absolutely not and good night, shut the door and stumbled back to bed. They had the wrong house and we resumed sleeping. | |
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Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| foundation horse - 2014-07-13 5:02 PM Interesting set of scenarios.
I answered all of them off the top of my head. I am looking forward to what kind of responses The Opposite of The Aisle will provide (if any ).
Also, who will have to 'look up' which scenario falls under what pertinent Amendment.
Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment.
Thank You Tia for sharing!
I must say that I had to look up some of the amendment numbers......no excuse for that either. | |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | Is this part of the homeschool program you use? I can tell you all kids get in public school is crap. | |
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Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| equussynergy - 2014-07-13 5:45 PM Is this part of the homeschool program you use? I can tell you all kids get in public school is crap.
Yes, she is feeling real mistreated right now too...... | |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Most of these look like trick question or the test was written by an idiot. I see nothing wrong at all with #1. You invited the police into your home and they spotted the bomb..
#9... well he clearly needs to be arrested because it states the only reason he didn't help rob the store was because he was sick.
#8 is not a violation because it's not the government telling you you there is a limit on how many guns you can buy. Just some dealer at the show.
#3 falls under eminent domain.. this happens all the time. Of course they have to pay you something for it but they decide what to pay.
#6.... well, I kinda like this one...
Edited by komet. 2014-07-13 6:46 PM
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Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | kmcsunshine - 2014-07-13 5:05 PM equussynergy - 2014-07-13 5:45 PM Is this part of the homeschool program you use? I can tell you all kids get in public school is crap. Yes, she is feeling real mistreated right now too......
Do point me in the direction of the program. My nephew is probably coming to live with me and If he does we will be doing homeschool. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Great post! | |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | Good catch komet, i sped through the first one and it didn't compute, lol
kmc, This is a great post. Im going to quiz myself and my son tomorrow. | |
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Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| CurlyQ - 2014-07-13 7:40 PM Good catch komet, i sped through the first one and it didn't compute, lol
kmc, This is a great post. Im going to quiz myself and my son tomorrow.
I caught the first one.......but had to wonder why the dummy let him in the house if he had a bomb in plain sight.
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 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: SoCal | Didn't get though them all because I'm being really lazy, but this is very similar to what we did in government class. Just graduated High School and these are some of the situations we had class discussions on. I was in AP Gov, so not sure what the regular gov classes covered these type of things as in depth as we did, but I know we covered stuff like this. | |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| I don't know if they get these specific questions but I know our govt teacher has discussions revolving around these types of scenarios. I don't know how specific they get into dissecting amendments, but since most of these involve weapons and injustices, and we live in the hunting capitol of the world, many of our kids know about guns rules, entering homes rules, etc. So I think at least our public school has a good handle on the concepts, but I'm sure they'd have to do research into the depth of the amendments. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | CurlyQ - 2014-07-13 5:18 PM foundation horse - 2014-07-13 5:02 PM Interesting set of scenarios.
I answered all of them off the top of my head. I am looking forward to what kind of responses The Opposite of The Aisle will provide (if any ).
Also, who will have to 'look up' which scenario falls under what pertinent Amendment.
Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment.
Thank You Tia for sharing!
Btw, i had Barney fife and his twin come to my door at 2 a.m. and ask to enter. Said my alarm had given an alert to trouble inside my home. That was the first red flag but I told them absolutely not and good night, shut the door and stumbled back to bed. They had the wrong house and we resumed sleeping.
"My" definition in this case is those on the opposite of the aisle who do not believe or respect The Constitution and therefore believe and act if It is an outdated Archaic Document that should be done away or overhauled.
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | This isn't in any social studies curriculum that I have had to teach (K-8). Not even CLOSE.
But I'm stealing this.
Also, what homeschool program do you use? I'm looking into homeschooling my boys (LONG ways off still, but I've already started researching programs because many start at the pre-K level).
What a FABULOUS assignment. What grade work is your daughter doing right now? Age? | |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | foundation horse - 2014-07-13 5:02 PM
Interesting set of scenarios. I answered all of them off the top of my head. I am looking forward to what kind of responses The Opposite of The Aisle will provide (if any ). Also, who will have to 'look up' which scenario falls under what pertinent Amendment. Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment. Thank You Tia for sharing!
I don't know how to highlight part of your statement so I copied and paste it....
Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment.
I may be completely wrong but I'm goons see if I'm right. I believe you are referring to scenario #10..... During the Revolutionary War soilders would go into people's houses and take what ever they wanted. Whether it be food, guns, or something else. I'm guessing the 3rd amendment, but could partially be the 4th amendment.
I would think scenario #8 would also be a violation of the 2nd amendment.
We had to do a ton of this kind of stuff when I took Goverment when I was a senior in high school.
Edited by TessBelle 2014-07-14 9:44 AM
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | That is a great assignment. It will make her research and think, and most of all appreciate how our constitution protects us. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | svincent - 2014-07-13 9:43 PM This isn't in any social studies curriculum that I have had to teach (K-8). Not even CLOSE. But I'm stealing this. Also, what homeschool program do you use? I'm looking into homeschooling my boys (LONG ways off still, but I've already started researching programs because many start at the pre-K level). What a FABULOUS assignment. What grade work is your daughter doing right now? Age?
I'm not sure how much things have changed, but this stuff used to be introduced in high school. I had civics in 9th grade, and street law in 11th. Unfortunately, my civics teacher was an unapologetic flaming liberal (I only recognized this as an adult, she tried her best to indoctrinate), but my street law teacher was pretty awesome. | |
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 Making the post season
Posts: 7288
Location: your guess is as good as mine | Wow...awesome questions! We did similar assignments in Civics class when I was in Jr High, but I went to a private school. We were supposed to extensively cover the Constitution in American History my junior year in HS (teacher was a devout Constitutionalist) - but that was the year the wall fell in East Berlin so we spent most of the year discussing that, etc.
I'm thinking #8 is the one - dealing with the 2nd Amendment - that was one of the sticking points leading up to the Revolutionary War...  | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Interesting assignment. | |
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 Mrs. Perks Alive
Posts: 1162
Location: Madill Ok | I like number 9.. your freinds robbed a liquor store. You didnt because you were home sick??
Really?? How about you didnt because you were raised right and are not the criminal type.. geesh | |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | kmcsunshine - 2014-07-13 3:23 PM
What is your opinion of some of these? Kinsey and I will be discussing them at length.
For each of the following 10 examples (1) decide which amendment is involved, (2) and which rights are being violated. (3) What is the right thing to do according to The Bill of Rights?
Then, write a 100-200 word paragraph explain which amendment you think is the most important for the protection of your rights and why.
1. You hear a knock at the door. You open it and find 2 police officers asking if they can come into your home to talk about a family member of yours. You say yes. While sitting in the living room, one of the officers sees a bomb on your shelf and confiscates it. You are arrested.
2. You are planning a public meeting to protest a new law. You have filed all of your permits and the city has said that you can have this meeting. The night before the meeting, however, the mayor finds out that you were arrested 4 years ago in another town for starting a riot. On the day of the meeting, police show up to prevent you from holding the meeting.
3. You have lived in your home for 15 years. During that time the city has grown and there are not enough roads. The sheriff comes to your house and tells you that you have to move because a new road was going to be built right through your property. You tell the officer that you like living there and don’t want to move. He tells you, "Too bad, you have 30 days to get out."
4. The principal at the high school in your town decides that all students can have extra holidays from school for the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Most of the students were happy, but some parents were mad because they didn't have baby-sitters.
5. You are a new immigrant to the United States. One night you were coming out of a store and the police arrested you for stealing. You said you didn't do anything, but the police were convinced that they had the right person. When you told them that you wanted a lawyer, one of the policemen said, "You don't need a lawyer, I know that you're guilty. People from your country are always stealing. We're locking you up and throwing away the key."
6. You were arrested, tried, and convicted of kidnapping. There was no doubt that you were guilty. The judge said, "I can either send you to prison for 12 years or I can make you shave your head and stand in the middle of the freeway and dodge traffic for 8 hours a day so that you will know what it is like to be scared to death. Prison is too good for you."
7. You have worked in the same place for 17 years and only had one raise. You felt like your boss owed you something, so you took a computer. When the boss found out, he had you arrested. You asked for a trial because you said you were innocent. But the police said you didn't get a trial because they already caught you with the stolen computer, you were guilty.
8. At a gun collecting show, you picked out 5 guns that you wanted to add to your collection of guns from the 1800’s. When you tried to pay for the guns, you were told that you weren’t allowed to take so many guns. You could only buy 2 guns because the Constitution allows citizens to have one gun per adult family member.
9. Your friends robbed a liquor store. You did not help because you were at home sick. The police arrested the whole group including you. At the trial, you said that you were innocent and could prove it because you had witnesses. However, your witnesses were your friends, and if they said you weren’t there, it would mean that they were at the liquor store.
10. Your city is in a state of emergency. For 6 days there have been riots and fires. The National Guard was called to restore peace. When officers show up at your door demanding some food and a place to sleep, you were so afraid of their guns that you let them in and gave them what they wanted.
#1...4th Amendment. Say there's a search warrant for marijuana, they don't find that, but, they find heroin instead...no can do...gotta get a new search warrant..."...particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person or things to be seized".
#2...1st, 5th & 6th Amendments. "...the right of the people to peacefully assemble...due process of law...impartial jury in the State & districtwherein crime shall have been committed..."
#3...4th & 5th..."...unreasonable seizure...just compensation...". The sheriff doesn't have that authority in the first place.
#4...1st Amendment...idk! "...no law respecting an establishment of religion...", however, this is a principal making decisions that he/she has no authority to make without the school board & public opinion...not really a 'right' being violated?
#5...6th Amendment. "...accused shall enjoy...right to a speedy & public trial...to be confronted with witnesses against him...process for obtaining witnesses in his favor....assistance for councel for his defense".
#6...8th Amendment. "....no....cruel & unusual punishments inflicted". (I'm with Komet, though!)
#7....6th Amendment. See above.
#8...2nd, 9th & 10th Amendments. 2nd is obvious....the right of the people to keep & bear arms. 9th is less obvious to most & it is the corner stone we tend to ignore....nobody, including the Supreme Court, has the right to belittle or intimidate you, nor to deny you the rights protected by our Constitution. However, the 10th Amendment allows for the states & the people to set rules, regulations (how many guns you can buy at one time...the waiting period)....I guess.
#9...5th Amendment. Due process...nor compelled to be a witness against himself. We presume the 'innocent until proven guilty' even though it's not stated one time in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights...however, it is common law. Guilty by association is a moral code...not a legal standing.
#10...3rd Amendment. "No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner prescribed by law". Was war declared? Not.
Wow! That was interesting! Lol...I think it's great that questions like these are making a comeback!!!! I'll skip on the rest!
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TessBelle - 2014-07-14 2:17 AM foundation horse - 2014-07-13 5:02 PM Interesting set of scenarios.
I answered all of them off the top of my head. I am looking forward to what kind of responses The Opposite of The Aisle will provide (if any ).
Also, who will have to 'look up' which scenario falls under what pertinent Amendment.
Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment.
Thank You Tia for sharing!
I don't know how to highlight part of your statement so I copied and paste it.... Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment. I may be completely wrong but I'm goons see if I'm right. I believe you are referring to scenario #10..... During the Revolutionary War soilders would go into people's houses and take what ever they wanted. Whether it be food, guns, or something else. I'm guessing the 3rd amendment, but could partially be the 4th amendment. I would think scenario #8 would also be a violation of the 2nd amendment. We had to do a ton of this kind of stuff when I took Goverment when I was a senior in high school.
You are correct. The 3rd Amendment is Scenario #10 falls under. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | musikmaker - 2014-07-14 9:35 AM kmcsunshine - 2014-07-13 3:23 PM
What is your opinion of some of these? Kinsey and I will be discussing them at length.
For each of the following 10 examples (1) decide which amendment is involved, (2) and which rights are being violated. (3) What is the right thing to do according to The Bill of Rights?
Then, write a 100-200 word paragraph explain which amendment you think is the most important for the protection of your rights and why.
1. You hear a knock at the door. You open it and find 2 police officers asking if they can come into your home to talk about a family member of yours. You say yes. While sitting in the living room, one of the officers sees a bomb on your shelf and confiscates it. You are arrested.
2. You are planning a public meeting to protest a new law. You have filed all of your permits and the city has said that you can have this meeting. The night before the meeting, however, the mayor finds out that you were arrested 4 years ago in another town for starting a riot. On the day of the meeting, police show up to prevent you from holding the meeting.
3. You have lived in your home for 15 years. During that time the city has grown and there are not enough roads. The sheriff comes to your house and tells you that you have to move because a new road was going to be built right through your property. You tell the officer that you like living there and don’t want to move. He tells you, "Too bad, you have 30 days to get out."
4. The principal at the high school in your town decides that all students can have extra holidays from school for the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Most of the students were happy, but some parents were mad because they didn't have baby-sitters.
5. You are a new immigrant to the United States. One night you were coming out of a store and the police arrested you for stealing. You said you didn't do anything, but the police were convinced that they had the right person. When you told them that you wanted a lawyer, one of the policemen said, "You don't need a lawyer, I know that you're guilty. People from your country are always stealing. We're locking you up and throwing away the key."
6. You were arrested, tried, and convicted of kidnapping. There was no doubt that you were guilty. The judge said, "I can either send you to prison for 12 years or I can make you shave your head and stand in the middle of the freeway and dodge traffic for 8 hours a day so that you will know what it is like to be scared to death. Prison is too good for you."
7. You have worked in the same place for 17 years and only had one raise. You felt like your boss owed you something, so you took a computer. When the boss found out, he had you arrested. You asked for a trial because you said you were innocent. But the police said you didn't get a trial because they already caught you with the stolen computer, you were guilty.
8. At a gun collecting show, you picked out 5 guns that you wanted to add to your collection of guns from the 1800’s. When you tried to pay for the guns, you were told that you weren’t allowed to take so many guns. You could only buy 2 guns because the Constitution allows citizens to have one gun per adult family member.
9. Your friends robbed a liquor store. You did not help because you were at home sick. The police arrested the whole group including you. At the trial, you said that you were innocent and could prove it because you had witnesses. However, your witnesses were your friends, and if they said you weren’t there, it would mean that they were at the liquor store.
10. Your city is in a state of emergency. For 6 days there have been riots and fires. The National Guard was called to restore peace. When officers show up at your door demanding some food and a place to sleep, you were so afraid of their guns that you let them in and gave them what they wanted. #1...4th Amendment. Say there's a search warrant for marijuana, they don't find that, but, they find heroin instead...no can do...gotta get a new search warrant..."...particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person or things to be seized".
#2...1st, 5th & 6th Amendments. "...the right of the people to peacefully assemble...due process of law...impartial jury in the State & districtwherein crime shall have been committed..."
#3...4th & 5th..."...unreasonable seizure...just compensation...". The sheriff doesn't have that authority in the first place.
#4...1st Amendment...idk! "...no law respecting an establishment of religion...", however, this is a principal making decisions that he/she has no authority to make without the school board & public opinion...not really a 'right' being violated?
#5...6th Amendment. "...accused shall enjoy...right to a speedy & public trial...to be confronted with witnesses against him...process for obtaining witnesses in his favor....assistance for councel for his defense".
#6...8th Amendment. "....no....cruel & unusual punishments inflicted". (I'm with Komet, though!)
#7....6th Amendment. See above.
#8...2nd, 9th & 10th Amendments. 2nd is obvious....the right of the people to keep & bear arms. 9th is less obvious to most & it is the corner stone we tend to ignore....nobody, including the Supreme Court, has the right to belittle or intimidate you, nor to deny you the rights protected by our Constitution. However, the 10th Amendment allows for the states & the people to set rules, regulations (how many guns you can buy at one time...the waiting period)....I guess.
#9...5th Amendment. Due process...nor compelled to be a witness against himself. We presume the 'innocent until proven guilty' even though it's not stated one time in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights...however, it is common law. Guilty by association is a moral code...not a legal standing.
#10...3rd Amendment. "No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner prescribed by law". Was war declared? Not.
Wow! That was interesting! Lol...I think it's great that questions like these are making a comeback!!!! I'll skip on the rest!
I bet you did not have to look them either, now did you?  | |
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 Winner winner chicken dinner
Posts: 2047
Location: California | I think it is awesome to see such a positive response to this lesson as it is essentially a Common Core lesson and people have spoken so poorly about the CCSS here on BHW. This is the type of lesson I have my students do everyday in my classes.  | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | phillyincal - 2014-07-14 10:47 AM I think it is awesome to see such a positive response to this lesson as it is essentially a Common Core lesson and people have spoken so poorly about the CCSS here on BHW. This is the type of lesson I have my students do everyday in my classes.
Please provide a specific as to where this lesson is located in a The Common Core Curriclum. Trust but verify ya' know. | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | foundation horse - 2014-07-14 9:45 AM musikmaker - 2014-07-14 9:35 AM kmcsunshine - 2014-07-13 3:23 PM
What is your opinion of some of these? Kinsey and I will be discussing them at length.
For each of the following 10 examples (1) decide which amendment is involved, (2) and which rights are being violated. (3) What is the right thing to do according to The Bill of Rights?
Then, write a 100-200 word paragraph explain which amendment you think is the most important for the protection of your rights and why.
1. You hear a knock at the door. You open it and find 2 police officers asking if they can come into your home to talk about a family member of yours. You say yes. While sitting in the living room, one of the officers sees a bomb on your shelf and confiscates it. You are arrested.
2. You are planning a public meeting to protest a new law. You have filed all of your permits and the city has said that you can have this meeting. The night before the meeting, however, the mayor finds out that you were arrested 4 years ago in another town for starting a riot. On the day of the meeting, police show up to prevent you from holding the meeting.
3. You have lived in your home for 15 years. During that time the city has grown and there are not enough roads. The sheriff comes to your house and tells you that you have to move because a new road was going to be built right through your property. You tell the officer that you like living there and don’t want to move. He tells you, "Too bad, you have 30 days to get out."
4. The principal at the high school in your town decides that all students can have extra holidays from school for the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Most of the students were happy, but some parents were mad because they didn't have baby-sitters.
5. You are a new immigrant to the United States. One night you were coming out of a store and the police arrested you for stealing. You said you didn't do anything, but the police were convinced that they had the right person. When you told them that you wanted a lawyer, one of the policemen said, "You don't need a lawyer, I know that you're guilty. People from your country are always stealing. We're locking you up and throwing away the key."
6. You were arrested, tried, and convicted of kidnapping. There was no doubt that you were guilty. The judge said, "I can either send you to prison for 12 years or I can make you shave your head and stand in the middle of the freeway and dodge traffic for 8 hours a day so that you will know what it is like to be scared to death. Prison is too good for you."
7. You have worked in the same place for 17 years and only had one raise. You felt like your boss owed you something, so you took a computer. When the boss found out, he had you arrested. You asked for a trial because you said you were innocent. But the police said you didn't get a trial because they already caught you with the stolen computer, you were guilty.
8. At a gun collecting show, you picked out 5 guns that you wanted to add to your collection of guns from the 1800’s. When you tried to pay for the guns, you were told that you weren’t allowed to take so many guns. You could only buy 2 guns because the Constitution allows citizens to have one gun per adult family member.
9. Your friends robbed a liquor store. You did not help because you were at home sick. The police arrested the whole group including you. At the trial, you said that you were innocent and could prove it because you had witnesses. However, your witnesses were your friends, and if they said you weren’t there, it would mean that they were at the liquor store.
10. Your city is in a state of emergency. For 6 days there have been riots and fires. The National Guard was called to restore peace. When officers show up at your door demanding some food and a place to sleep, you were so afraid of their guns that you let them in and gave them what they wanted. #1...4th Amendment. Say there's a search warrant for marijuana, they don't find that, but, they find heroin instead...no can do...gotta get a new search warrant..."...particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person or things to be seized".
#2...1st, 5th & 6th Amendments. "...the right of the people to peacefully assemble...due process of law...impartial jury in the State & districtwherein crime shall have been committed..."
#3...4th & 5th..."...unreasonable seizure...just compensation...". The sheriff doesn't have that authority in the first place.
#4...1st Amendment...idk! "...no law respecting an establishment of religion...", however, this is a principal making decisions that he/she has no authority to make without the school board & public opinion...not really a 'right' being violated?
#5...6th Amendment. "...accused shall enjoy...right to a speedy & public trial...to be confronted with witnesses against him...process for obtaining witnesses in his favor....assistance for councel for his defense".
#6...8th Amendment. "....no....cruel & unusual punishments inflicted". (I'm with Komet, though!)
#7....6th Amendment. See above.
#8...2nd, 9th & 10th Amendments. 2nd is obvious....the right of the people to keep & bear arms. 9th is less obvious to most & it is the corner stone we tend to ignore....nobody, including the Supreme Court, has the right to belittle or intimidate you, nor to deny you the rights protected by our Constitution. However, the 10th Amendment allows for the states & the people to set rules, regulations (how many guns you can buy at one time...the waiting period)....I guess.
#9...5th Amendment. Due process...nor compelled to be a witness against himself. We presume the 'innocent until proven guilty' even though it's not stated one time in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights...however, it is common law. Guilty by association is a moral code...not a legal standing.
#10...3rd Amendment. "No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner prescribed by law". Was war declared? Not.
Wow! That was interesting! Lol...I think it's great that questions like these are making a comeback!!!! I'll skip on the rest!
I bet you did not have to look them either, now did you?
Sadly, I cheated to get the wording correct! Lol...I get my trusty little pocket Constitution out every time I have a question concerning our rights...just to be certain & to hopefully ingrain it even deeper into my head. There was a time when I didn't do this & I found I'd been taking liberties, I then found a website that I love...one we should all take a look at:
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#innocent
I'm so very pleased that the public is taking a new interest...at least one good thing has come from our current state of affairs!!!
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Winner winner chicken dinner
Posts: 2047
Location: California | foundation horse - 2014-07-15 8:50 AM phillyincal - 2014-07-14 10:47 AM I think it is awesome to see such a positive response to this lesson as it is essentially a Common Core lesson and people have spoken so poorly about the CCSS here on BHW. This is the type of lesson I have my students do everyday in my classes. Please provide a specific as to where this lesson is located in a The Common Core Curriclum. Trust but verify ya' know.
Sorry, I am about to board a plane so I don't have the time to do so and will be spending the next week with my grandma :-) Please google the CCSS and look at the reading standards for ELA (we don't have them for History/SS). You will see that the CCSS calls for students to work with informational text (primary sources as opposed to novels/literature) and complete an analysis of the source. Additionally there are writing standards. I would re-word the prompt to include the word analyze vs. explain (explanation/description is lower level thinking), but overall this lesson is typical of what we're trying to do with the CCSS. I'd be glad to get you more info, but it'd be at the end of the week. | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | For anyone interested in furthering their knowledge base...and being ill to boot...this is a must watch:
http://www.corbettreport.com/federalreserve/
It's long, but, it's mind blowingly worth it!
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Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| phillyincal - 2014-07-14 11:01 AM foundation horse - 2014-07-15 8:50 AM phillyincal - 2014-07-14 10:47 AM I think it is awesome to see such a positive response to this lesson as it is essentially a Common Core lesson and people have spoken so poorly about the CCSS here on BHW. This is the type of lesson I have my students do everyday in my classes. Please provide a specific as to where this lesson is located in a The Common Core Curriclum. Trust but verify ya' know.
Common core my hiney......this material predates common core and all of her assignments use methods such as this because we don't use text books. I have had a long workday or I'd share more. I'm just reading through this real quick to compare hers to these. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | musikmaker - 2014-07-14 10:56 AM
foundation horse - 2014-07-14 9:45 AM musikmaker - 2014-07-14 9:35 AM kmcsunshine - 2014-07-13 3:23 PM
What is your opinion of some of these? Kinsey and I will be discussing them at length.
For each of the following 10 examples (1) decide which amendment is involved, (2) and which rights are being violated. (3) What is the right thing to do according to The Bill of Rights?
Then, write a 100-200 word paragraph explain which amendment you think is the most important for the protection of your rights and why.
1. You hear a knock at the door. You open it and find 2 police officers asking if they can come into your home to talk about a family member of yours. You say yes. While sitting in the living room, one of the officers sees a bomb on your shelf and confiscates it. You are arrested.
2. You are planning a public meeting to protest a new law. You have filed all of your permits and the city has said that you can have this meeting. The night before the meeting, however, the mayor finds out that you were arrested 4 years ago in another town for starting a riot. On the day of the meeting, police show up to prevent you from holding the meeting.
3. You have lived in your home for 15 years. During that time the city has grown and there are not enough roads. The sheriff comes to your house and tells you that you have to move because a new road was going to be built right through your property. You tell the officer that you like living there and don’t want to move. He tells you, "Too bad, you have 30 days to get out."
4. The principal at the high school in your town decides that all students can have extra holidays from school for the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Most of the students were happy, but some parents were mad because they didn't have baby-sitters.
5. You are a new immigrant to the United States. One night you were coming out of a store and the police arrested you for stealing. You said you didn't do anything, but the police were convinced that they had the right person. When you told them that you wanted a lawyer, one of the policemen said, "You don't need a lawyer, I know that you're guilty. People from your country are always stealing. We're locking you up and throwing away the key."
6. You were arrested, tried, and convicted of kidnapping. There was no doubt that you were guilty. The judge said, "I can either send you to prison for 12 years or I can make you shave your head and stand in the middle of the freeway and dodge traffic for 8 hours a day so that you will know what it is like to be scared to death. Prison is too good for you."
7. You have worked in the same place for 17 years and only had one raise. You felt like your boss owed you something, so you took a computer. When the boss found out, he had you arrested. You asked for a trial because you said you were innocent. But the police said you didn't get a trial because they already caught you with the stolen computer, you were guilty.
8. At a gun collecting show, you picked out 5 guns that you wanted to add to your collection of guns from the 1800’s. When you tried to pay for the guns, you were told that you weren’t allowed to take so many guns. You could only buy 2 guns because the Constitution allows citizens to have one gun per adult family member.
9. Your friends robbed a liquor store. You did not help because you were at home sick. The police arrested the whole group including you. At the trial, you said that you were innocent and could prove it because you had witnesses. However, your witnesses were your friends, and if they said you weren’t there, it would mean that they were at the liquor store.
10. Your city is in a state of emergency. For 6 days there have been riots and fires. The National Guard was called to restore peace. When officers show up at your door demanding some food and a place to sleep, you were so afraid of their guns that you let them in and gave them what they wanted. #1...4th Amendment. Say there's a search warrant for marijuana, they don't find that, but, they find heroin instead...no can do...gotta get a new search warrant..."...particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person or things to be seized".
Apparently you are not aware the SC has decimated this to the point it may as well not exist anymore..
#2...1st, 5th & 6th Amendments. "...the right of the people to peacefully assemble...due process of law...impartial jury in the State & districtwherein crime shall have been committed..."
#3...4th & 5th..."...unreasonable seizure...just compensation...". The sheriff doesn't have that authority in the first place.
#4...1st Amendment...idk! "...no law respecting an establishment of religion...", however, this is a principal making decisions that he/she has no authority to make without the school board & public opinion...not really a 'right' being violated?
#5...6th Amendment. "...accused shall enjoy...right to a speedy & public trial...to be confronted with witnesses against him...process for obtaining witnesses in his favor....assistance for counsel for his defense".
This is another one you missed..... If the police just haul you straight to prison and bypass the courts...what are you to do?
#6...8th Amendment. "....no....cruel & unusual punishments inflicted". (I'm with Komet, though!)
#7....6th Amendment. See above.
#8...2nd, 9th & 10th Amendments. 2nd is obvious....the right of the people to keep & bear arms. 9th is less obvious to most & it is the corner stone we tend to ignore....nobody, including the Supreme Court, has the right to belittle or intimidate you, nor to deny you the rights protected by our Constitution. However, the 10th Amendment allows for the states & the people to set rules, regulations (how many guns you can buy at one time...the waiting period)....I guess.
This is another one that is gone Gone GONE!!! Practically any offense real or imagined is enough to take your "gun rights" away..
I got caught with 3 good lines of cocaine 25 years ago and can never own a firearm again. PPFFftTTT!!!!! Don't even start with me...
#9...5th Amendment. Due process...nor compelled to be a witness against himself. We presume the 'innocent until proven guilty' even though it's not stated one time in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights...however, it is common law. Guilty by association is a moral code...not a legal standing.
#10...3rd Amendment. "No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner prescribed by law". Was war declared? Not.
Wow! That was interesting! Lol...I think it's great that questions like these are making a comeback!!!! I'll skip on the rest!
I bet you did not have to look them either, now did you?
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#innocent
I'm so very pleased that the public is taking a new interest...at least one good thing has come from our current state of affairs!!!
See above to understand why I am less than proud of my government. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | foundation horse - 2014-07-14 10:42 AM
TessBelle - 2014-07-14 2:17 AM foundation horse - 2014-07-13 5:02 PM Interesting set of scenarios.
I answered all of them off the top of my head. I am looking forward to what kind of responses The Opposite of The Aisle will provide (if any ).
Also, who will have to 'look up' which scenario falls under what pertinent Amendment.
Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment.
Thank You Tia for sharing!
I don't know how to highlight part of your statement so I copied and paste it.... Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment. I may be completely wrong but I'm goons see if I'm right. I believe you are referring to scenario #10..... During the Revolutionary War soilders would go into people's houses and take what ever they wanted. Whether it be food, guns, or something else. I'm guessing the 3rd amendment, but could partially be the 4th amendment. I would think scenario #8 would also be a violation of the 2nd amendment. We had to do a ton of this kind of stuff when I took Goverment when I was a senior in high school.
You are correct. The 3rd Amendment is Scenario #10 falls under.
I don't know that they could go in and take whatever they wanted... But citizens were required to provide room and board to British solders. | |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| kmcsunshine - 2014-07-14 5:10 PM phillyincal - 2014-07-14 11:01 AM foundation horse - 2014-07-15 8:50 AM phillyincal - 2014-07-14 10:47 AM I think it is awesome to see such a positive response to this lesson as it is essentially a Common Core lesson and people have spoken so poorly about the CCSS here on BHW. This is the type of lesson I have my students do everyday in my classes. Please provide a specific as to where this lesson is located in a The Common Core Curriclum. Trust but verify ya' know.
Common core didn't just fall out of the sky. Last time I checked the constitution pre-dates American text books. It's been in every text book since we started American history. The common core DOES cover history through literacy. Go to commoncore.org and look up the standards. It's under the literay heading at first. Both 9-10 and 11-12 standards meet the criteria that this assignment is based around. | |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | My son, age 14 got all but 2 correct. I however, didnt fare so well. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | kmcsunshine - 2014-07-14 5:10 PM phillyincal - 2014-07-14 11:01 AM foundation horse - 2014-07-15 8:50 AM phillyincal - 2014-07-14 10:47 AM I think it is awesome to see such a positive response to this lesson as it is essentially a Common Core lesson and people have spoken so poorly about the CCSS here on BHW. This is the type of lesson I have my students do everyday in my classes. Please provide a specific as to where this lesson is located in a The Common Core Curriclum. Trust but verify ya' know.
KM, I find the Teacher's responses extremely interesting. Or the Teachers who endorse Common Core anyway.
I agree with whoever stated The Constitution predates Text Books (I want to say KMCSunshine). Everything I have read in reference to, and relationship to CC, leads to me that this Cirriculm is a money making venture for those who have pushed it, along with the fact that History has been rewritten to reflect Current Politically Correct Platitudes.
But then, I know enough about History in general and American History in particular to be capable of disputing the textbook lessons reasonable facts.
I get a kick out of my boys calling the History and Government Teachers 'out' on particular textbook lessons, because I have taught them the truth in opposition to what the textbook cirriculm claims to be factual. I have had very positive conservations with My Boys Teachers over the years and The Teachers have been rather receptive. Which is a good thing. Cause the idea of Public School was started by Horace Mann from the North East and His stated goal was to conform Public School Students to 'His' way of thinking.
Education has become a 'racket' over the years, publicly, charter school and private school speaking due to the idea of chasing the all might dollar.
I wish more people would wake up to this concept surrounding children and education. Parents need to be involved! Because without Parent Involvement there is no telling what kind of mush will spoon fed into children's brains!
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | CurlyQ - 2014-07-14 9:05 PM My son, age 14 got all but 2 correct. I however, didnt fare so well.
Public or Home Schooled? | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Oh, for the record, I am a public school product. My Boys are Charter School (cross between Private and Public Students).
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | foundation horse - 2014-07-14 9:15 PM Oh, for the record, I am a public school product. My Boys are Charter School (cross between Private and Public Students).
Oh dear....are you sure? You seem way to smaaaaart to be a product of "public" schools".......... | |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I am just starting to learn about common core and in my small community, the ONLY ones that like it, are the present teachers. I am not saying it is all bad, as I don't know all the details. I will be sending both my boys to school, the oldest does kindergarten this fall. I will stay involved the entire time as there are a lot of things common core that I don't agree with so far. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-07-14 9:21 PM I am just starting to learn about common core and in my small community, the ONLY ones that like it, are the present teachers. I am not saying it is all bad, as I don't know all the details. I will be sending both my boys to school, the oldest does kindergarten this fall. I will stay involved the entire time as there are a lot of things common core that I don't agree with so far.
Parent involvement is the key factor in any child's education.
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas |
I will go ahead and say for 'it' for you. heheheheheeh I am a smartazz! heheheheh | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | I'm a teacher, and generally speaking: a conservative. As far as common core - this assignment format IS definitely it. Yes, there's absolutely indoctrination of liberal views within the public school system; but as far as lesson format and expectations from the student, Common Core does MUCH better than most canned curriculums that have been used in classrooms in the past: think the reading books, then you do a worksheet, then you take a quiz - those suck.
For anybody interested, google Bloom's Taxonomy. Common Core aims to move students hire up this scale, more analyzing and less blind memorizing.
The materials, and subjects covered by any canned CC curriculum package will undoubtedly contain liberal indoctrination in some form or another; as a teacher, I take it as my job to teach BOTH sides of everything, while also guiding students into thinking for themselves. I LOVE LOVE LOVE when kids ask "why?" or "how come?" in my classroom - that's the point of education: to take your learning into your own hands and be responsible for the thoughts you think, form your own opinions, don't just follow blindly to where your "superiors" lead.
This is a GREAT assignment.
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10D Crack Champion
| In reference to the comments about common core, common core is not a curriculum. It is a list of standards to be met. Common Core State Standards (CCSS). The "curriculum" used to teach these standards is up to the individual state, district, administration, and teachers just as any state standards or objectives would be.
I post not against nor in favor of CCSS. Just posting information.
I assume homeschool curriculums are based on a set of standards or objectives as well. I am sure some parents set their own standards and objectives & decide which homeschool curriculum they will use to teach those standards..... and some parents probably create their own curriculum to teach those standards as well. Others probably use a curriculum which is based around the company's standards or national and state standards.... same with private schools and charter schools. Many charter schools follow standards of their state public schools and choose their own curriculum to teach those standards.
Edited by sodapop 2014-07-14 11:10 PM
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | komet. - 2014-07-14 4:29 PM foundation horse - 2014-07-14 10:42 AM TessBelle - 2014-07-14 2:17 AM foundation horse - 2014-07-13 5:02 PM Interesting set of scenarios.
I answered all of them off the top of my head. I am looking forward to what kind of responses The Opposite of The Aisle will provide (if any ).
Also, who will have to 'look up' which scenario falls under what pertinent Amendment.
Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment.
Thank You Tia for sharing!
I don't know how to highlight part of your statement so I copied and paste it.... Another interestion observation is that only scenario actually refers to an amendment that was written (specifically ) historically in regards to the runup to The Revolutionary War. I wonder who else will be able to pick that particular scenario out and which amendment. I may be completely wrong but I'm goons see if I'm right. I believe you are referring to scenario #10..... During the Revolutionary War soilders would go into people's houses and take what ever they wanted. Whether it be food, guns, or something else. I'm guessing the 3rd amendment, but could partially be the 4th amendment. I would think scenario #8 would also be a violation of the 2nd amendment. We had to do a ton of this kind of stuff when I took Goverment when I was a senior in high school. You are correct. The 3rd Amendment is Scenario #10 falls under. I don't know that they could go in and take whatever they wanted... But citizens were required to provide room and board to British solders.
Enter the Revolutionary War.
Our hard fought independence from that type of oppression.
Idk about the common core stuff...about all I can say concerning the public school system is that it became mandatory in 1850...jeez, I sure wonder how mankind survived before that. Seriously, I think they need to do something...kids are bored outta their minds which creates other social problems.
I don't even care 'why' somethings changing as long as it does!
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | svincent - 2014-07-14 10:37 PM I'm a teacher, and generally speaking: a conservative. As far as common core - this assignment format IS definitely it. Yes, there's absolutely indoctrination of liberal views within the public school system; but as far as lesson format and expectations from the student, Common Core does MUCH better than most canned curriculums that have been used in classrooms in the past: think the reading books, then you do a worksheet, then you take a quiz - those suck. For anybody interested, google Bloom's Taxonomy. Common Core aims to move students hire up this scale, more analyzing and less blind memorizing. The materials, and subjects covered by any canned CC curriculum package will undoubtedly contain liberal indoctrination in some form or another; as a teacher, I take it as my job to teach BOTH sides of everything, while also guiding students into thinking for themselves. I LOVE LOVE LOVE when kids ask "why?" or "how come?" in my classroom - that's the point of education: to take your learning into your own hands and be responsible for the thoughts you think, form your own opinions, don't just follow blindly to where your "superiors" lead. This is a GREAT assignment.
The things I'm seeing with CCSS in the younger grades is developmentally inappropriate. It's further eroding an already messed up educational institution by leaving holes in foundations, expecting advanced brain skills of little kids who mostly are not capable of grasping the abstract concepts yet, ignoring IEPs (happened to my nephew), and further increasing desk time in a desperate attempt to get these little ones ready for a standardized test that everything depends on. Some child development experts have likened it to abuse. Actual educators were not involved in the writing of the standards. The 2 that were invited to participate (apparently for the sake of appearances) refused to sign off on them because they were not well done.
another problem that is happening, and this is more-so with the higher grades is the polar opposite of the little kids: using the minimums set in the standards as the end-all, be-all and no longer offering the more advanced classes. Some schools are phasing out AP and honors classes in order to put their money into new materials that are CCSS aligned and remedial materials. Pearson and their ilk are nothing but a racket. Let's sell confusing, mistake-ridden text books and worksheets that align with the new standards, write a test meant to fail most kids, and then they will sell you the remedial materials to supposedly fix the problem. It's all about money.
I was lucky enough to start school before the reform movement caught on, so I remember the difference. The more the government tinkers with education, the worse they mess it up. Go back to local control and let the teachers teach, let the kids be kids. Bring back recess! The current situation makes me furious. | |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | foundation horse - 2014-07-14 10:50 AM
phillyincal - 2014-07-14 10:47 AM I think it is awesome to see such a positive response to this lesson as it is essentially a Common Core lesson and people have spoken so poorly about the CCSS here on BHW. This is the type of lesson I have my students do everyday in my classes.
Please provide a specific as to where this lesson is located in a The Common Core Curriclum. Trust but verify ya' know.
* curriculum | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-15 7:32 AM
svincent - 2014-07-14 10:37 PM I'm a teacher, and generally speaking: a conservative. As far as common core - this assignment format IS definitely it. Yes, there's absolutely indoctrination of liberal views within the public school system; but as far as lesson format and expectations from the student, Common Core does MUCH better than most canned curriculums that have been used in classrooms in the past: think the reading books, then you do a worksheet, then you take a quiz - those suck. For anybody interested, google Bloom's Taxonomy. Common Core aims to move students hire up this scale, more analyzing and less blind memorizing. The materials, and subjects covered by any canned CC curriculum package will undoubtedly contain liberal indoctrination in some form or another; as a teacher, I take it as my job to teach BOTH sides of everything, while also guiding students into thinking for themselves. I LOVE LOVE LOVE when kids ask "why?" or "how come?" in my classroom - that's the point of education: to take your learning into your own hands and be responsible for the thoughts you think, form your own opinions, don't just follow blindly to where your "superiors" lead. This is a GREAT assignment.
The things I'm seeing with CCSS in the younger grades is developmentally inappropriate. It's further eroding an already messed up educational institution by leaving holes in foundations, expecting advanced brain skills of little kids who mostly are not capable of grasping the abstract concepts yet, ignoring IEPs (happened to my nephew), and further increasing desk time in a desperate attempt to get these little ones ready for a standardized test that everything depends on. Some child development experts have likened it to abuse. Actual educators were not involved in the writing of the standards. The 2 that were invited to participate (apparently for the sake of appearances) refused to sign off on them because they were not well done.
another problem that is happening, and this is more-so with the higher grades is the polar opposite of the little kids: using the minimums set in the standards as the end-all, be-all and no longer offering the more advanced classes. Some schools are phasing out AP and honors classes in order to put their money into new materials that are CCSS aligned and remedial materials. Pearson and their ilk are nothing but a racket. Let's sell confusing, mistake-ridden text books and worksheets that align with the new standards, write a test meant to fail most kids, and then they will sell you the remedial materials to supposedly fix the problem. It's all about money.
I was lucky enough to start school before the reform movement caught on, so I remember the difference. The more the government tinkers with education, the worse they mess it up. Go back to local control and let the teachers teach, let the kids be kids. Bring back recess! The current situation makes me furious.
CCSS is FAR from perfect, but the actual standards that are set, are a step in the right direction for getting students to move into the higher levels of processing. The CCSS is just STANDARDS. It is NOT a curriculum. The problems you mentioned stem from a poorly designed CURRICULUM program. These are two different things. Company's like Houghton/Mifflin take the standards and then have to develop a lesson/unit/scope&sequence package to FIT those standards (there are TONS of curriculum companies). It is up to each state/district to decide what curriculum packages from what companies will be used.
If you look at the actual standards, they set excellent goals as far as processing goes. For example: a teacher using CCSS would ask students WHY the Revolutionary War happened, and back up their answer; while another teacher might simply drill the important dates of the Revolutionary War time period. The standards, especially for RLA do not dictate a curriculum at all - that is solely the responsibility of the individual districts and/or states.
Most confusion that I have heard about stems from the math standards in particular, and I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. The CCSS aims to teach students the mathematical THEORY, with less focus on the predetermined algorithm. CCSS aims for students to understand what is happening when you "borrow" in subtraction or "carry over" in addition. Many students just do these algorithms blindly with no understanding of what they are actually doing: manipulating the place values. Again, the standards themselves are vague and are at the mercy of the curriculum companies, who may or may not develop an effective approach to teaching these standards. I've seen CCSS math taught EXTRAORDINARILY well, but have definitely seen it taught in the most complicated, confusing way possible. The biggest problem I've seen is when teachers try to FORCE students into the theoretical processes instead of helping them to get there at their own speed. Kids CAN AND DO get to the theoretical math - but everyone goes a different speed. The higher-level thinkers might jump right into the theoretical, while the lower-level thinkers might need extra scaffolding and modeling to get there. I've also seen the frustration that comes when a student gets the correct answer, but not necessarily in the exact steps the teacher wants. This isn't the fault of CCSS, this is the fault of poor teaching. All CCSS asks of students in math is that they be able to explain their work/answer - which is something I've always required in my classroom. When a teacher decides to punish students for not doing it "the way I want you to", that is just flat out poor teaching. That would be the same as me telling my toddler he was tying his shoes "wrong" because he was using the "bunny ear" method instead of the "around the tree" method. Shoes got tied? Math got done? Is there a level of understanding deep enough that the student can explain his thinking? Good, then the teacher needs to shut up. *keep in mind, while it is poor teaching - the school admin might be doing a poor job supporting their teachers in implementing whatever curriculum package they chose. So, the teacher is not necessarily a bad teacher, but may be struggling temporarily.
CCSS is still very new, curriculum companies are still trying to figure it out, so are teachers and administrators. I just hate to see the CCSS totally demonized because of bad implementation - because there is SO much more behind what is seen in the classroom than just the CCSS.
*sorry for typos or any craziness. I'm on my phone and didn't want to proofread :) | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | svincent - 2014-07-15 12:04 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-15 7:32 AM svincent - 2014-07-14 10:37 PM I'm a teacher, and generally speaking: a conservative. As far as common core - this assignment format IS definitely it. Yes, there's absolutely indoctrination of liberal views within the public school system; but as far as lesson format and expectations from the student, Common Core does MUCH better than most canned curriculums that have been used in classrooms in the past: think the reading books, then you do a worksheet, then you take a quiz - those suck. For anybody interested, google Bloom's Taxonomy. Common Core aims to move students hire up this scale, more analyzing and less blind memorizing. The materials, and subjects covered by any canned CC curriculum package will undoubtedly contain liberal indoctrination in some form or another; as a teacher, I take it as my job to teach BOTH sides of everything, while also guiding students into thinking for themselves. I LOVE LOVE LOVE when kids ask "why?" or "how come?" in my classroom - that's the point of education: to take your learning into your own hands and be responsible for the thoughts you think, form your own opinions, don't just follow blindly to where your "superiors" lead. This is a GREAT assignment. The things I'm seeing with CCSS in the younger grades is developmentally inappropriate. It's further eroding an already messed up educational institution by leaving holes in foundations, expecting advanced brain skills of little kids who mostly are not capable of grasping the abstract concepts yet, ignoring IEPs (happened to my nephew), and further increasing desk time in a desperate attempt to get these little ones ready for a standardized test that everything depends on. Some child development experts have likened it to abuse. Actual educators were not involved in the writing of the standards. The 2 that were invited to participate (apparently for the sake of appearances) refused to sign off on them because they were not well done.
another problem that is happening, and this is more-so with the higher grades is the polar opposite of the little kids: using the minimums set in the standards as the end-all, be-all and no longer offering the more advanced classes. Some schools are phasing out AP and honors classes in order to put their money into new materials that are CCSS aligned and remedial materials. Pearson and their ilk are nothing but a racket. Let's sell confusing, mistake-ridden text books and worksheets that align with the new standards, write a test meant to fail most kids, and then they will sell you the remedial materials to supposedly fix the problem. It's all about money.
I was lucky enough to start school before the reform movement caught on, so I remember the difference. The more the government tinkers with education, the worse they mess it up. Go back to local control and let the teachers teach, let the kids be kids. Bring back recess! The current situation makes me furious. CCSS is FAR from perfect, but the actual standards that are set, are a step in the right direction for getting students to move into the higher levels of processing. The CCSS is just STANDARDS. It is NOT a curriculum. The problems you mentioned stem from a poorly designed CURRICULUM program. These are two different things. Company's like Houghton/Mifflin take the standards and then have to develop a lesson/unit/scope&sequence package to FIT those standards (there are TONS of curriculum companies ). It is up to each state/district to decide what curriculum packages from what companies will be used. If you look at the actual standards, they set excellent goals as far as processing goes. For example: a teacher using CCSS would ask students WHY the Revolutionary War happened, and back up their answer; while another teacher might simply drill the important dates of the Revolutionary War time period. The standards, especially for RLA do not dictate a curriculum at all - that is solely the responsibility of the individual districts and/or states. Most confusion that I have heard about stems from the math standards in particular, and I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. The CCSS aims to teach students the mathematical THEORY, with less focus on the predetermined algorithm. CCSS aims for students to understand what is happening when you "borrow" in subtraction or "carry over" in addition. Many students just do these algorithms blindly with no understanding of what they are actually doing: manipulating the place values. Again, the standards themselves are vague and are at the mercy of the curriculum companies, who may or may not develop an effective approach to teaching these standards. I've seen CCSS math taught EXTRAORDINARILY well, but have definitely seen it taught in the most complicated, confusing way possible. The biggest problem I've seen is when teachers try to FORCE students into the theoretical processes instead of helping them to get there at their own speed. Kids CAN AND DO get to the theoretical math - but everyone goes a different speed. The higher-level thinkers might jump right into the theoretical, while the lower-level thinkers might need extra scaffolding and modeling to get there. I've also seen the frustration that comes when a student gets the correct answer, but not necessarily in the exact steps the teacher wants. This isn't the fault of CCSS, this is the fault of poor teaching. All CCSS asks of students in math is that they be able to explain their work/answer - which is something I've always required in my classroom. When a teacher decides to punish students for not doing it "the way I want you to", that is just flat out poor teaching. That would be the same as me telling my toddler he was tying his shoes "wrong" because he was using the "bunny ear" method instead of the "around the tree" method. Shoes got tied? Math got done? Is there a level of understanding deep enough that the student can explain his thinking? Good, then the teacher needs to shut up. *keep in mind, while it is poor teaching - the school admin might be doing a poor job supporting their teachers in implementing whatever curriculum package they chose. So, the teacher is not necessarily a bad teacher, but may be struggling temporarily. CCSS is still very new, curriculum companies are still trying to figure it out, so are teachers and administrators. I just hate to see the CCSS totally demonized because of bad implementation - because there is SO much more behind what is seen in the classroom than just the CCSS. *sorry for typos or any craziness. I'm on my phone and didn't want to proofread : )
Do Teachers need to be reminded that teaching to a 'standard' is not truly teaching, but in essence creating a production line type mentality? Students meet a minimum bar under standards, remember?
Also, every one learns differently and per the exposure to the Common Core Plans that I have there are alternate methods for students to learn.
Folks, again I state there is a problem with Common Core! Both from the money trail via Companies who are selling, implementing and servicing CC and from The Current Day Politically Correct Platitudes that waver in the wind and do not follow the founding of This Great Country! 
Needless to say I do not trust or accept The Common Core Cirruculum. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | foundation horse - 2014-07-15 1:49 PM
svincent - 2014-07-15 12:04 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-15 7:32 AM svincent - 2014-07-14 10:37 PM I'm a teacher, and generally speaking: a conservative. As far as common core - this assignment format IS definitely it. Yes, there's absolutely indoctrination of liberal views within the public school system; but as far as lesson format and expectations from the student, Common Core does MUCH better than most canned curriculums that have been used in classrooms in the past: think the reading books, then you do a worksheet, then you take a quiz - those suck. For anybody interested, google Bloom's Taxonomy. Common Core aims to move students hire up this scale, more analyzing and less blind memorizing. The materials, and subjects covered by any canned CC curriculum package will undoubtedly contain liberal indoctrination in some form or another; as a teacher, I take it as my job to teach BOTH sides of everything, while also guiding students into thinking for themselves. I LOVE LOVE LOVE when kids ask "why?" or "how come?" in my classroom - that's the point of education: to take your learning into your own hands and be responsible for the thoughts you think, form your own opinions, don't just follow blindly to where your "superiors" lead. This is a GREAT assignment. The things I'm seeing with CCSS in the younger grades is developmentally inappropriate. It's further eroding an already messed up educational institution by leaving holes in foundations, expecting advanced brain skills of little kids who mostly are not capable of grasping the abstract concepts yet, ignoring IEPs (happened to my nephew), and further increasing desk time in a desperate attempt to get these little ones ready for a standardized test that everything depends on. Some child development experts have likened it to abuse. Actual educators were not involved in the writing of the standards. The 2 that were invited to participate (apparently for the sake of appearances) refused to sign off on them because they were not well done.
another problem that is happening, and this is more-so with the higher grades is the polar opposite of the little kids: using the minimums set in the standards as the end-all, be-all and no longer offering the more advanced classes. Some schools are phasing out AP and honors classes in order to put their money into new materials that are CCSS aligned and remedial materials. Pearson and their ilk are nothing but a racket. Let's sell confusing, mistake-ridden text books and worksheets that align with the new standards, write a test meant to fail most kids, and then they will sell you the remedial materials to supposedly fix the problem. It's all about money.
I was lucky enough to start school before the reform movement caught on, so I remember the difference. The more the government tinkers with education, the worse they mess it up. Go back to local control and let the teachers teach, let the kids be kids. Bring back recess! The current situation makes me furious. CCSS is FAR from perfect, but the actual standards that are set, are a step in the right direction for getting students to move into the higher levels of processing. The CCSS is just STANDARDS. It is NOT a curriculum. The problems you mentioned stem from a poorly designed CURRICULUM program. These are two different things. Company's like Houghton/Mifflin take the standards and then have to develop a lesson/unit/scope&sequence package to FIT those standards (there are TONS of curriculum companies ). It is up to each state/district to decide what curriculum packages from what companies will be used. If you look at the actual standards, they set excellent goals as far as processing goes. For example: a teacher using CCSS would ask students WHY the Revolutionary War happened, and back up their answer; while another teacher might simply drill the important dates of the Revolutionary War time period. The standards, especially for RLA do not dictate a curriculum at all - that is solely the responsibility of the individual districts and/or states. Most confusion that I have heard about stems from the math standards in particular, and I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. The CCSS aims to teach students the mathematical THEORY, with less focus on the predetermined algorithm. CCSS aims for students to understand what is happening when you "borrow" in subtraction or "carry over" in addition. Many students just do these algorithms blindly with no understanding of what they are actually doing: manipulating the place values. Again, the standards themselves are vague and are at the mercy of the curriculum companies, who may or may not develop an effective approach to teaching these standards. I've seen CCSS math taught EXTRAORDINARILY well, but have definitely seen it taught in the most complicated, confusing way possible. The biggest problem I've seen is when teachers try to FORCE students into the theoretical processes instead of helping them to get there at their own speed. Kids CAN AND DO get to the theoretical math - but everyone goes a different speed. The higher-level thinkers might jump right into the theoretical, while the lower-level thinkers might need extra scaffolding and modeling to get there. I've also seen the frustration that comes when a student gets the correct answer, but not necessarily in the exact steps the teacher wants. This isn't the fault of CCSS, this is the fault of poor teaching. All CCSS asks of students in math is that they be able to explain their work/answer - which is something I've always required in my classroom. When a teacher decides to punish students for not doing it "the way I want you to", that is just flat out poor teaching. That would be the same as me telling my toddler he was tying his shoes "wrong" because he was using the "bunny ear" method instead of the "around the tree" method. Shoes got tied? Math got done? Is there a level of understanding deep enough that the student can explain his thinking? Good, then the teacher needs to shut up. *keep in mind, while it is poor teaching - the school admin might be doing a poor job supporting their teachers in implementing whatever curriculum package they chose. So, the teacher is not necessarily a bad teacher, but may be struggling temporarily. CCSS is still very new, curriculum companies are still trying to figure it out, so are teachers and administrators. I just hate to see the CCSS totally demonized because of bad implementation - because there is SO much more behind what is seen in the classroom than just the CCSS. *sorry for typos or any craziness. I'm on my phone and didn't want to proofread : )
Do Teachers need to be reminded that teaching to a 'standard' is not truly teaching, but in essence creating a production line type mentality? Students meet a minimum bar under standards, remember? Also, every one learns differently and per the exposure to the Common Core Plans that I have there are alternate methods for students to learn. Folks, again I state there is a problem with Common Core! Both from the money trail via Companies who are selling, implementing and servicing CC and from The Current Day Politically Correct Platitudes that waver in the wind and do not follow the founding of This Great Country! Needless to say I do not trust or accept The Common Core Cirruculum.
I think you're looking for the evil in this. Standards don't say "this is all you have to teach" - standards just set a minimum (like you said). There will of course be teachers that teach only to that minimum, but these aren't great teachers, and should probably reevaluate their career choice. They'd be lazy teachers no matter what curriculum you handed them, or what standards you held them to. There have always been state standards to be met.
People (including yourself) also keep confusing "curriculum" with "standard". They are not the same. And most problems that people have with the CCSS are ACTUALLY with the chosen curriculum - which is a problem that needs to be addressed at the district level.
I'm not arguing that there are problems with the implementation of CCSS, because there absolutely are. I'm just trying to explain it from the side of a teacher: there's a lot more behind what parents see in the classroom, and none of it can be fairly blamed solely on one person, curriculum, or standard. :) | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Forgot to add: teaching to a standard is not the same as "teaching to the test". Standards are MEANT only as a general guide to what should be covered. They are not a set-in-stone list of subjects that need to be covered. Again, great teachers will do with the standards whatever they can to expand the learning, while lazy teachers are more than happy to just do the minimum and/or teach to a standardized test.
Edited by svincent 2014-07-15 2:38 PM
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10D Crack Champion
| foundation horse - 2014-07-15 1:49 PM svincent - 2014-07-15 12:04 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-15 7:32 AM svincent - 2014-07-14 10:37 PM I'm a teacher, and generally speaking: a conservative. As far as common core - this assignment format IS definitely it. Yes, there's absolutely indoctrination of liberal views within the public school system; but as far as lesson format and expectations from the student, Common Core does MUCH better than most canned curriculums that have been used in classrooms in the past: think the reading books, then you do a worksheet, then you take a quiz - those suck. For anybody interested, google Bloom's Taxonomy. Common Core aims to move students hire up this scale, more analyzing and less blind memorizing. The materials, and subjects covered by any canned CC curriculum package will undoubtedly contain liberal indoctrination in some form or another; as a teacher, I take it as my job to teach BOTH sides of everything, while also guiding students into thinking for themselves. I LOVE LOVE LOVE when kids ask "why?" or "how come?" in my classroom - that's the point of education: to take your learning into your own hands and be responsible for the thoughts you think, form your own opinions, don't just follow blindly to where your "superiors" lead. This is a GREAT assignment. The things I'm seeing with CCSS in the younger grades is developmentally inappropriate. It's further eroding an already messed up educational institution by leaving holes in foundations, expecting advanced brain skills of little kids who mostly are not capable of grasping the abstract concepts yet, ignoring IEPs (happened to my nephew), and further increasing desk time in a desperate attempt to get these little ones ready for a standardized test that everything depends on. Some child development experts have likened it to abuse. Actual educators were not involved in the writing of the standards. The 2 that were invited to participate (apparently for the sake of appearances) refused to sign off on them because they were not well done.
another problem that is happening, and this is more-so with the higher grades is the polar opposite of the little kids: using the minimums set in the standards as the end-all, be-all and no longer offering the more advanced classes. Some schools are phasing out AP and honors classes in order to put their money into new materials that are CCSS aligned and remedial materials. Pearson and their ilk are nothing but a racket. Let's sell confusing, mistake-ridden text books and worksheets that align with the new standards, write a test meant to fail most kids, and then they will sell you the remedial materials to supposedly fix the problem. It's all about money.
I was lucky enough to start school before the reform movement caught on, so I remember the difference. The more the government tinkers with education, the worse they mess it up. Go back to local control and let the teachers teach, let the kids be kids. Bring back recess! The current situation makes me furious. CCSS is FAR from perfect, but the actual standards that are set, are a step in the right direction for getting students to move into the higher levels of processing. The CCSS is just STANDARDS. It is NOT a curriculum. The problems you mentioned stem from a poorly designed CURRICULUM program. These are two different things. Company's like Houghton/Mifflin take the standards and then have to develop a lesson/unit/scope&sequence package to FIT those standards (there are TONS of curriculum companies ). It is up to each state/district to decide what curriculum packages from what companies will be used. If you look at the actual standards, they set excellent goals as far as processing goes. For example: a teacher using CCSS would ask students WHY the Revolutionary War happened, and back up their answer; while another teacher might simply drill the important dates of the Revolutionary War time period. The standards, especially for RLA do not dictate a curriculum at all - that is solely the responsibility of the individual districts and/or states. Most confusion that I have heard about stems from the math standards in particular, and I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. The CCSS aims to teach students the mathematical THEORY, with less focus on the predetermined algorithm. CCSS aims for students to understand what is happening when you "borrow" in subtraction or "carry over" in addition. Many students just do these algorithms blindly with no understanding of what they are actually doing: manipulating the place values. Again, the standards themselves are vague and are at the mercy of the curriculum companies, who may or may not develop an effective approach to teaching these standards. I've seen CCSS math taught EXTRAORDINARILY well, but have definitely seen it taught in the most complicated, confusing way possible. The biggest problem I've seen is when teachers try to FORCE students into the theoretical processes instead of helping them to get there at their own speed. Kids CAN AND DO get to the theoretical math - but everyone goes a different speed. The higher-level thinkers might jump right into the theoretical, while the lower-level thinkers might need extra scaffolding and modeling to get there. I've also seen the frustration that comes when a student gets the correct answer, but not necessarily in the exact steps the teacher wants. This isn't the fault of CCSS, this is the fault of poor teaching. All CCSS asks of students in math is that they be able to explain their work/answer - which is something I've always required in my classroom. When a teacher decides to punish students for not doing it "the way I want you to", that is just flat out poor teaching. That would be the same as me telling my toddler he was tying his shoes "wrong" because he was using the "bunny ear" method instead of the "around the tree" method. Shoes got tied? Math got done? Is there a level of understanding deep enough that the student can explain his thinking? Good, then the teacher needs to shut up. *keep in mind, while it is poor teaching - the school admin might be doing a poor job supporting their teachers in implementing whatever curriculum package they chose. So, the teacher is not necessarily a bad teacher, but may be struggling temporarily. CCSS is still very new, curriculum companies are still trying to figure it out, so are teachers and administrators. I just hate to see the CCSS totally demonized because of bad implementation - because there is SO much more behind what is seen in the classroom than just the CCSS. *sorry for typos or any craziness. I'm on my phone and didn't want to proofread : ) Do Teachers need to be reminded that teaching to a 'standard' is not truly teaching, but in essence creating a production line type mentality? Students meet a minimum bar under standards, remember? Also, every one learns differently and per the exposure to the Common Core Plans that I have there are alternate methods for students to learn. Folks, again I state there is a problem with Common Core! Both from the money trail via Companies who are selling, implementing and servicing CC and from The Current Day Politically Correct Platitudes that waver in the wind and do not follow the founding of This Great Country! Needless to say I do not trust or accept The Common Core Cirruculum.
Edited by sodapop 2014-07-15 2:40 PM
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | svincent - 2014-07-15 2:28 PM foundation horse - 2014-07-15 1:49 PM svincent - 2014-07-15 12:04 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-15 7:32 AM svincent - 2014-07-14 10:37 PM I'm a teacher, and generally speaking: a conservative. As far as common core - this assignment format IS definitely it. Yes, there's absolutely indoctrination of liberal views within the public school system; but as far as lesson format and expectations from the student, Common Core does MUCH better than most canned curriculums that have been used in classrooms in the past: think the reading books, then you do a worksheet, then you take a quiz - those suck. For anybody interested, google Bloom's Taxonomy. Common Core aims to move students hire up this scale, more analyzing and less blind memorizing. The materials, and subjects covered by any canned CC curriculum package will undoubtedly contain liberal indoctrination in some form or another; as a teacher, I take it as my job to teach BOTH sides of everything, while also guiding students into thinking for themselves. I LOVE LOVE LOVE when kids ask "why?" or "how come?" in my classroom - that's the point of education: to take your learning into your own hands and be responsible for the thoughts you think, form your own opinions, don't just follow blindly to where your "superiors" lead. This is a GREAT assignment. The things I'm seeing with CCSS in the younger grades is developmentally inappropriate. It's further eroding an already messed up educational institution by leaving holes in foundations, expecting advanced brain skills of little kids who mostly are not capable of grasping the abstract concepts yet, ignoring IEPs (happened to my nephew), and further increasing desk time in a desperate attempt to get these little ones ready for a standardized test that everything depends on. Some child development experts have likened it to abuse. Actual educators were not involved in the writing of the standards. The 2 that were invited to participate (apparently for the sake of appearances) refused to sign off on them because they were not well done.
another problem that is happening, and this is more-so with the higher grades is the polar opposite of the little kids: using the minimums set in the standards as the end-all, be-all and no longer offering the more advanced classes. Some schools are phasing out AP and honors classes in order to put their money into new materials that are CCSS aligned and remedial materials. Pearson and their ilk are nothing but a racket. Let's sell confusing, mistake-ridden text books and worksheets that align with the new standards, write a test meant to fail most kids, and then they will sell you the remedial materials to supposedly fix the problem. It's all about money.
I was lucky enough to start school before the reform movement caught on, so I remember the difference. The more the government tinkers with education, the worse they mess it up. Go back to local control and let the teachers teach, let the kids be kids. Bring back recess! The current situation makes me furious. CCSS is FAR from perfect, but the actual standards that are set, are a step in the right direction for getting students to move into the higher levels of processing. The CCSS is just STANDARDS. It is NOT a curriculum. The problems you mentioned stem from a poorly designed CURRICULUM program. These are two different things. Company's like Houghton/Mifflin take the standards and then have to develop a lesson/unit/scope&sequence package to FIT those standards (there are TONS of curriculum companies ). It is up to each state/district to decide what curriculum packages from what companies will be used. If you look at the actual standards, they set excellent goals as far as processing goes. For example: a teacher using CCSS would ask students WHY the Revolutionary War happened, and back up their answer; while another teacher might simply drill the important dates of the Revolutionary War time period. The standards, especially for RLA do not dictate a curriculum at all - that is solely the responsibility of the individual districts and/or states. Most confusion that I have heard about stems from the math standards in particular, and I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. The CCSS aims to teach students the mathematical THEORY, with less focus on the predetermined algorithm. CCSS aims for students to understand what is happening when you "borrow" in subtraction or "carry over" in addition. Many students just do these algorithms blindly with no understanding of what they are actually doing: manipulating the place values. Again, the standards themselves are vague and are at the mercy of the curriculum companies, who may or may not develop an effective approach to teaching these standards. I've seen CCSS math taught EXTRAORDINARILY well, but have definitely seen it taught in the most complicated, confusing way possible. The biggest problem I've seen is when teachers try to FORCE students into the theoretical processes instead of helping them to get there at their own speed. Kids CAN AND DO get to the theoretical math - but everyone goes a different speed. The higher-level thinkers might jump right into the theoretical, while the lower-level thinkers might need extra scaffolding and modeling to get there. I've also seen the frustration that comes when a student gets the correct answer, but not necessarily in the exact steps the teacher wants. This isn't the fault of CCSS, this is the fault of poor teaching. All CCSS asks of students in math is that they be able to explain their work/answer - which is something I've always required in my classroom. When a teacher decides to punish students for not doing it "the way I want you to", that is just flat out poor teaching. That would be the same as me telling my toddler he was tying his shoes "wrong" because he was using the "bunny ear" method instead of the "around the tree" method. Shoes got tied? Math got done? Is there a level of understanding deep enough that the student can explain his thinking? Good, then the teacher needs to shut up. *keep in mind, while it is poor teaching - the school admin might be doing a poor job supporting their teachers in implementing whatever curriculum package they chose. So, the teacher is not necessarily a bad teacher, but may be struggling temporarily. CCSS is still very new, curriculum companies are still trying to figure it out, so are teachers and administrators. I just hate to see the CCSS totally demonized because of bad implementation - because there is SO much more behind what is seen in the classroom than just the CCSS. *sorry for typos or any craziness. I'm on my phone and didn't want to proofread : ) Do Teachers need to be reminded that teaching to a 'standard' is not truly teaching, but in essence creating a production line type mentality? Students meet a minimum bar under standards, remember?
Also, every one learns differently and per the exposure to the Common Core Plans that I have there are alternate methods for students to learn.
Folks, again I state there is a problem with Common Core! Both from the money trail via Companies who are selling, implementing and servicing CC and from The Current Day Politically Correct Platitudes that waver in the wind and do not follow the founding of This Great Country!
Needless to say I do not trust or accept The Common Core Cirruculum. I think you're looking for the evil in this. Standards don't say "this is all you have to teach" - standards just set a minimum (like you said ). There will of course be teachers that teach only to that minimum, but these aren't great teachers, and should probably reevaluate their career choice. They'd be lazy teachers no matter what curriculum you handed them, or what standards you held them to. There have always been state standards to be met. People (including yourself ) also keep confusing "curriculum" with "standard". They are not the same. And most problems that people have with the CCSS are ACTUALLY with the chosen curriculum - which is a problem that needs to be addressed at the district level. I'm not arguing that there are problems with the implementation of CCSS, because there absolutely are. I'm just trying to explain it from the side of a teacher: there's a lot more behind what parents see in the classroom, and none of it can be fairly blamed solely on one person, curriculum, or standard. : )
I understand your PsOV from a Teacher's Perspective. However, I also find problems with the concept of CCCS from a finanical(sp) angle. This thing is Expensive to implement. A District has to completely scrap one system and pay for another that has not been proven to be effective.
Why fix something if it ain't broke? Especially with this as expensive and massive as it is? I agree there are education shortfalls in America, but I believe it goes to lack of parenting, not teaching to a standard. There are many children who are unloaded on school systems in lieu of parents. Parenting needs to addressed prior to education. And this come from within Americans not from a Government (School District) dictating what should happen.
Also, many Districts are implementing CCCS w/o Parental Knowledge or Consent. I have a problem with that. What about The Teachers, should the Parents not be aware of what is being taught and how it is being taught? | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | The bottom line question is:
Just who is in charge of a Child's Education? The Parent (who funds it via taxmonies paid or other fees) or The Teacher who implements via a Method/Technique/Lesson Plan etc?
My personal answer: I, The Parent, am! It is my job as a Parent to make My Child gets a better opporunity than I had. And implementing CCCS w/o Parental Knowledge or Consent defeats this from the get go. Research my reference to Horace Mann from the mid 1800s in this thread and Ya'll will understand what I am talking about.
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10D Crack Champion
| I don't know how every state works, but most have the same standards across the state in every district that must be followed. In Oklahoma each district is not able to create their own standards. Each district much follow what is required by the state. The individual district can decide or design their own curriculum. My district makes all of the information available to parents. The biggest issue with Common Core is not really the standards themselves. Although some of the standards for the very young ones are not developmentally appropriate. It is all the other requirements for assessment that pose the biggest choke hold. Oklahoma was in and now Oklahoma has passed on them for that reason... as well as some of the other concerns people have. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | sodapop - 2014-07-15 2:49 PM I don't know how every state works, but most have the same standards across the state in every district that must be followed. In Oklahoma each district is not able to create their own standards. Each district much follow what is required by the state. The individual district can decide or design their own curriculum. My district makes all of the information available to parents. The biggest issue with Common Core is not really the standards themselves. Although some of the standards for the very young ones are not developmentally appropriate. It is all the other requirements for assessment that pose the biggest choke hold. Oklahoma was in and now Oklahoma has passed on them for that reason... as well as some of the other concerns people have.
Your post illustrates control. Just who is in control? The State or The Citizens? | |
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10D Crack Champion
| foundation horse - 2014-07-15 2:47 PM
The bottom line question is:
Just who is in charge of a Child's Education? The Parent (who funds it via taxmonies paid or other fees) or The Teacher who implements via a Method/Technique/Lesson Plan etc?
My personal answer: I, The Parent, am! It is my job as a Parent to make My Child gets a better opporunity than I had. And implementing CCCS w/o Parental Knowledge or Consent defeats this from the get go. Research my reference to Horace Mann from the mid 1800s in this thread and Ya'll will understand what I am talking about.
I agree parents should be very involved. At your children's school do the parents participate in creating curriculum to meet whatever standards they require? Do the parents get to decide or help create the standards? Do you get to help decide methods of instruction as well? I have not had any direct involvement with charter schools. At your school are the children selected to attend from an random lottery type process? How does the school in general differ from your local public school? | |
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10D Crack Champion
| foundation horse - 2014-07-15 2:52 PM sodapop - 2014-07-15 2:49 PM I don't know how every state works, but most have the same standards across the state in every district that must be followed. In Oklahoma each district is not able to create their own standards. Each district much follow what is required by the state. The individual district can decide or design their own curriculum. My district makes all of the information available to parents. The biggest issue with Common Core is not really the standards themselves. Although some of the standards for the very young ones are not developmentally appropriate. It is all the other requirements for assessment that pose the biggest choke hold. Oklahoma was in and now Oklahoma has passed on them for that reason... as well as some of the other concerns people have. Your post illustrates control. Just who is in control? The State or The Citizens?
Edited by sodapop 2014-07-15 3:31 PM
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | svincent - 2014-07-15 2:34 PM
Forgot to add: teaching to a standard is not the same as "teaching to the test". Standards are MEANT only as a general guide to what should be covered. They are not a set-in-stone list of subjects that need to be covered. Again, great teachers will do with the standards whatever they can to expand the learning, while lazy teachers are more than happy to just do the minimum and/or teach to a standardized test.
There IS a problem with the actual standards for younger children. I have read some articles where some of the K-3 standards were dissected and it explained WHY most of their little brains aren't ready for what is being asked. Not every single standard is bad, but many of them are. I assure you I know the difference in standards and curriculum. The standards drive the testing which drives the curriculum. The same company providing curriculum materials, testing materials, and remediation materials, which also, not so incidentally, participated in writing the standards and then selling them is ethically wrong. The fact that so many states adopted CCSS BEFORE IT WAS WRITTEN for the sake of RTTT grants and NCLB waivers from the federal government makes me see red and distrust the state.
Entire school districts are, in their own words, "teaching to meet the standards, not exceed them." I have a huge problem with that. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-15 3:12 PM
svincent - 2014-07-15 2:34 PM
Forgot to add: teaching to a standard is not the same as "teaching to the test". Standards are MEANT only as a general guide to what should be covered. They are not a set-in-stone list of subjects that need to be covered. Again, great teachers will do with the standards whatever they can to expand the learning, while lazy teachers are more than happy to just do the minimum and/or teach to a standardized test.
There IS a problem with the actual standards for younger children. I have read some articles where some of the K-3 standards were dissected and it explained WHY most of their little brains aren't ready for what is being asked. Not every single standard is bad, but many of them are. I assure you I know the difference in standards and curriculum. The standards drive the testing which drives the curriculum. The same company providing curriculum materials, testing materials, and remediation materials, which also, not so incidentally, participated in writing the standards and then selling them is ethically wrong. The fact that so many states adopted CCSS BEFORE IT WAS WRITTEN for the sake of RTTT grants and NCLB waivers from the federal government makes me see red and distrust the state.
Entire school districts are, in their own words, "teaching to meet the standards, not exceed them." I have a huge problem with that.
I'm not promoting the CCSS by any means, just saying there is more to the problem than the standards themselves. Like you said, the curriculum publishing companies are a HUGE problem. As is the blind acceptance on the states' parts and then the implementation on the district level. | |
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Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| Did a little googling on common core+Bill of Rights and found this:
http://universalfreepress.com/common-core-childrens-textbook-completely-rewrites-second-amendment/ | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR |
Every time there is a curriculum change and text books are replaced, they infiltrate a little more. Common Core itself is not the cause of that but it is a catalyst being used to indoctrinate via CCSS aligned materials. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas |
This is UNAcceptable! The photo in the link is from a CCCS Textbook. Hey SVincent, am I still looking for the evil? No wonder I don't anything to do with Common Core!
And I am confident this is not the 'rewritten' lesson contained within this Cirriculum either!
Yes, I am very active in what My Boys study and should either of them come home with something like this, well it wouldn't be pretty.
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | foundation horse - 2014-07-14 9:33 PM
I will go ahead and say for 'it' for you. heheheheheeh I am a smartazz! heheheheh
Better a 'smart' one than a dumb one Clay... | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | foundation horse - 2014-07-16 12:55 PM
This is UNAcceptable! The photo in the link is from a CCCS Textbook. Hey SVincent, am I still looking for the evil? No wonder I don't anything to do with Common Core! And I am confident this is not the 'rewritten' lesson contained within this Cirriculum either! Yes, I am very active in what My Boys study and should either of them come home with something like this, well it wouldn't be pretty.
I completely agree that this example of CURRICULUM is 100% unacceptable. But PLEASE NOTE: your issue here is with the CURRICULUM, NOT with the STANDARDS. That was my only point in all of my previous posts: curriculum and standards are NOT the same things. I'm not promoting the CCSS by any means, and if my children brought this home as school work I would be livid. If as a teacher, I was given this to teach - I wouldn't. In my classroom, no matter how indoctrinated the CURRICULUM is, I teach a very neutral lesson that equally and TRUTHFULLY presents the information that is required by the STANDARD. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | FQH - We are both wanting the same thing: for our kids' education not to be a transcript of MSNBC nightly news.
My earlier posts were to simply help clarify the difference between STANDARDS and CURRICULUM. We are on the same "side" lol and I feel like we are both repeating ourselves "arguing" about the same thing, just using different words.lol | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | svincent - 2014-07-16 3:29 PM
FQH - We are both wanting the same thing: for our kids' education not to be a transcript of MSNBC nightly news.
My earlier posts were to simply help clarify the difference between STANDARDS and CURRICULUM. We are on the same "side" lol and I feel like we are both repeating ourselves "arguing" about the same thing, just using different words.lol
Now this I agree with. But where You and differ is just who sets the Standard. The State or The Parent. Therefore I have a problem with teaching to a test which what I believe happens more often than not. I as a Parent am responible for My Child to include education. Not the State! | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | foundation horse - 2014-07-16 7:22 PM
svincent - 2014-07-16 3:29 PM
FQH - We are both wanting the same thing: for our kids' education not to be a transcript of MSNBC nightly news.
My earlier posts were to simply help clarify the difference between STANDARDS and CURRICULUM. We are on the same "side" lol and I feel like we are both repeating ourselves "arguing" about the same thing, just using different words.lol
Now this I agree with. But where You and differ is just who sets the Standard. The State or The Parent. Therefore I have a problem with teaching to a test which what I believe happens more often than not. I as a Parent am responible for My Child to include education. Not the State!
I wish more parents felt like you :(
Then maybe this country could actually get something done as far as education goes.
Parents like yourself are the HIGHLIGHT of my career. Nothing makes me sadder than having students with parents who just don't give a damn.
When my own boys reach schooling-age, I'm leaning heavily towards homeschooling - for the very reasons we've all brought up in this feed. In my area, the only options available besides the local public schools are a Waldorf Academy (would never send my kids there lol) and a Christian Academy - both an hour away (one way). So for us parents that want to take control and play a large role in our kids' educations, homeschooling is where it is at.
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10D Crack Champion
| foundation horse - 2014-07-16 7:22 PM svincent - 2014-07-16 3:29 PMFQH - We are both wanting the same thing: for our kids' education not to be a transcript of MSNBC nightly news.My earlier posts were to simply help clarify the difference between STANDARDS and CURRICULUM. We are on the same "side" lol and I feel like we are both repeating ourselves "arguing" about the same thing, just using different words.lol Now this I agree with. But where You and differ is just who sets the Standard. The State or The Parent. Therefore I have a problem with teaching to a test which what I believe happens more often than not. I as a Parent am responible for My Child to include education. Not the State!
Edited by sodapop 2014-07-16 9:53 PM
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | I may be wrong, but doesnt a charter get its funding from the public school system? I know that partial funding comes from local taxes and federal funding. Maybe those funds would make the local p.s. more viable if allocated there. Idk, i hate discontent when we all really just want the best for our children. I wouldnt go so far as proclaiming that one sytem or protocol is superior or ' one size fits all.' I do agree though that if and when a majority of the parents take a more active interest in their children, wed all be better off, as would society as a whole. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | foundation horse - 2014-07-16 7:22 PM
svincent - 2014-07-16 3:29 PM
FQH - We are both wanting the same thing: for our kids' education not to be a transcript of MSNBC nightly news.
My earlier posts were to simply help clarify the difference between STANDARDS and CURRICULUM. We are on the same "side" lol and I feel like we are both repeating ourselves "arguing" about the same thing, just using different words.lol
Now this I agree with. But where You and differ is just who sets the Standard. The State or The Parent. Therefore I have a problem with teaching to a test which what I believe happens more often than not. I as a Parent am responible for My Child to include education. Not the State!
To the victors go the privilege of writing the history that is taught to the children.... Imagine my shock after school when I learned the truth... | |
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I wonder if public school kiddos get assignments like this