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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
  
| My gelding is a big boy 16.2 and appendix. He's kinda a hard keeper and I've been struggling since day one to find him a weight builder he will eat. I board so I have to keep that in mind so beat pulp, oil and other messy ones arent options for me.
I currently have him on forco which is helping but I think he needs some extra calories. He currently gets a scoop of stradegy morning and night and gets 2-3 flakes mix hay morning and night with pasture.
Ive tried cool calories, weight builder, amplify, rice bran and another pellet that i cant remember the name of right now. Ive considered muscle mass but heard picky horses wont eat it.
I think a pelleted form is best as he did eat the one I cant seem to name but it was so expensive and he was getting A LOT without any real results. Hes in good shape and performing great but hes just a tad thin for my liking between the heat and the bugs.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. |
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 I Freaking Love Ponies
Posts: 2717
Location: Not in Texas where I should be! | I have a 16.2 appendix myself that thank goodness is a somewhat easy keeper. My 16.1 TB however was the opposite. I tried everything in the book from expensive performance horse feeds to beet pulp to fat additives. The only thing that kept the weight on and didn't make him more of a lunatic than he already was was barley. I fed him a scoop and a half of rolled barley with one-two scoops of pelleted feed am and pm plus hay of course. Barley wasn't cheap at the time but it's the only thing that worked. I'm pretty sure either ThreeCorners or someone of the like (forgive me if I'm wrong, it was one of us older members on here as it was circa 2001 or so) on here is the one that told me to try it. |
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Veteran
Posts: 205
| I give all My Horses Calf Manna its the best . |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 682
Location: Northwest | stayceem - 2014-07-18 10:15 PM
My gelding is a big boy 16.2 and appendix. He's kinda a hard keeper and I've been struggling since day one to find him a weight builder he will eat. I board so I have to keep that in mind so beat pulp, oil and other messy ones arent options for me.
I currently have him on forco which is helping but I think he needs some extra calories. He currently gets a scoop of stradegy morning and night and gets 2-3 flakes mix hay morning and night with pasture.
Ive tried cool calories, weight builder, amplify, rice bran and another pellet that i cant remember the name of right now. Ive considered muscle mass but heard picky horses wont eat it.
I think a pelleted form is best as he did eat the one I cant seem to name but it was so expensive and he was getting A LOT without any real results. Hes in good shape and performing great but hes just a tad thin for my liking between the heat and the bugs.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I had an OTT mare that was extremely hard to keep weight on and she was also a picky eater. Treating for ulcers helped quite a bit, but she still wasn't getting up to my desired weight. Tried lots of different things but switching her to Nutrena XTN was the best choice I ever made. Didn't make her hot at all like some feeds will, added the weight and it has a lot of good minerals/prebiotics/etc in it. Just my own experience, but I absolutely swear by the feed and drove over 75 miles to get it last time I was running low :) |
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  Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | Add in a few pounds of alfalfa am and pm, as pellets or flakes. Also, if he is getting "a scoop" of Strategy, I would look at what that amount of Strategy weighs. Generally, one average feed scoop holds 3 lbs. of Strategy, so check the amount you are feeding to the recommendations. Since you board, if you are looking for a good fat addition, you may want to look at SmartPak or a fat pellet such as Amplify. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | pm me your address and I can send you a couple scoops of muscle mass to try :) |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Morab76 - 2014-07-19 9:56 AM
Add in a few pounds of alfalfa am and pm, as pellets or flakes. Also, if he is getting "a scoop" of Strategy, I would look at what that amount of Strategy weighs. Generally, one average feed scoop holds 3 lbs. of Strategy, so check the amount you are feeding to the recommendations. Since you board, if you are looking for a good fat addition, you may want to look at SmartPak or a fat pellet such as Amplify.
I may be mistaken but arent the smark packs mostly powder? I think thats one of the biggest problems. How on earth he can pick through so well is beyond me but seems to have it down to a fine art. I didnt notice a great result with Amplify and kinda got scared away from continuining after many people said it made their horses nutty. Granted me gelding is very laid back but I certainly dont want him to become a crazy.
Anyone had any luck with the rice bran pellets? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I add half a cup of flax seed to the grain/pelleted food. |
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 I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | My older guy hates anything powder. I add 1/2 cup of the cheapest apple sauce I can find with his feed and supplements. He devours it.
ETA: I also feed soaked beet pulp and soaked alfalfa cubes along with rice bran in his feed. The added moisture seems to help avoid the waste of powder. I think the apple sauce tricks his mind. haha.
Edited by sophiebelle 2014-07-19 8:48 PM
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| The pellet type food he ate is Envision by Progressive but again you had to feed so much of it and I barely saw a difference. Just finally came to me.
I tried doing a mix awhile back with molasses and another time with apple sauce and he wasnt impressed. Ive heard good things about aloe juice???? But again, I think I have to stick with a more pellated form because if I add more than one supplement, they require me to bag it at the boarding stable I am at. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | Over the years I have found that picky eaters usually become even more so when you start adding suppliments to their feed. Find a good quality, high fat feed that they will clean up. Hard keepers would not be tagged as such if they could bloom on the "recommended daily ration". You will have to up the amount to fit the individual horses needs. |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Here's a link to a blog that I wrote on this very thing...... my old horse is in the picture. He's always been a picky eater & hard keeper.
https://qheventer.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/old-horses-hard-keepers/
A 3 quarter scoop holds 3.8 pounds so your horse is getting 7.6 pounds of Strategy. Off the top of my head I think they recommend 9 pounds for a 1200 pound horse that's working. Unless you're feeding absolutely top notch hay with it, that's not going to be enough.
Best bang for the buck I've found is adding alfalfa cubes. Beet pulp helps stretch their hay but it's alfalfa that gets the weight. Rice bran & flax seed can helps add some weight but you've got to feed quite a bit to get a lot of weight.
As far as picky eaters, I've found cutting out joint supplements, all kinds of molassas, and in a lot of cases beet pulp as well (even the non-molassas kind) will help with appetite. |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| I treated my picky eating hard keeper for ulcers and he is no longer a picky eater and his condition has improved drastically. |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I have an appendix mare that appeared to be a picky eater but I treated her for ulcers and now she eats everything I put in front of her. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I should clarify this horse eats all his grain, cleans up his hay and does well with his forco for the most part but hes not a fan of powders. He just eats around the powders and eats the grain. He'll eat anything in pellets, he doesnt seem to have any other ulcer symptoms... Maybe ill read up on ulcers more but from the symptoms I know, he doesnt seem to fit that but i suppose you never know.
He may not be getting enough grain for a horse thats working hard. I wish I could switch his feed all together but its kinda hard with boarding.... Ive wanted to put him on a higher fat feed since strategy is kinda blahhh but just difficult when I cant be the one feeding him. |
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 Winner winner chicken dinner
Posts: 2047
Location: California | I'd give the folks at Renew Gold a call and see if their product will help. I love this product for my horses, they have never looked better! It's a pelleted feed and even my pickiest eater gobbles it up. Good luck! |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| phillyincal - 2014-07-19 11:47 PM
I'd give the folks at Renew Gold a call and see if their product will help. I love this product for my horses, they have never looked better! It's a pelleted feed and even my pickiest eater gobbles it up. Good luck!
Ive thought about them before! I just dont know much about their products but with a little dedication I figured out how to work their website and found the brochure! This definetely may be something to look into. Thanks!
ETA apparently there is not a dealer in the 5 state area ... anyone know anyone i can get more info from? Otherwise ill call the main page listing
Edited by stayceem 2014-07-20 12:26 AM
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I feed blue seal low starch, it has 12% fat, i also bump with a scoop of cool calaries, my horse eat one 50lb bag in about 6 days all three, they get one slab of alfalfa, and about 5 lb. Slab of hay and grass. In the winter time they get xtra hay, and beet pulp and alfafa cubes. I like feeding anything but grain. They look good and are a lot quieter. Grain is the easiest thing to feed.
Edited by daisycake123 2014-07-20 6:36 AM
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | If he's eating what your feeding, then he's not too picky! IMO he just needs more! Weigh your grain to be sure and throw in more hay, if he's cleaning it up how is he ever going to have enough to gain? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | We lucked into an own son of Seattle Slew this year. He was healthy when he got here but you could tell he needed more to eat - he's a 15 year old TB stallion and that's not a recipe for easy keeping. He's 16.3. You can imagine, we want to take very good care of him!
Protein and energy are the keys. We are lucky to be able to get very nice 3rd cutting alfalfa here and he gets that plus all he can he grass hay. Nothing will put condition on a horse faster than good alfalfa. He also gets Progressive Nutrition ration balancer because it has extremely good quality proteins. Then I do pour soybean oil on it too. You might not be able to do that, but Progress makes another feed called Envision that is a high fat pellet. It's expensive too but would work for you n the boarding situation.
The change in this horse in the first three months is unreal. When he got off the trailer, you knew there was a good horse there. Now he is truly jaw dropping - muscle everywhere. Most QHs would like a hip like he has - he did not have that when we got him.
In other words, my advice is to quit looking for a weight builder supplement and just go with really good quality feed.
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| LMS - 2014-07-20 8:41 AM
If he's eating what your feeding, then he's not too picky! IMO he just needs more! Weigh your grain to be sure and throw in more hay, if he's cleaning it up how is he ever going to have enough to gain?
I guess I am a bit skeptical about just pushing strictly grain on him due to energy levels and stuff. Ill be checking to make sure hes getting the reccomended amount but posted because he doesnt eat supplements so yes i find him a picky eater in that respect. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Not many horses will initially clean up the powdered supplements. I always start mine out and either wet the pelleted foods, mix with a little red cell, mix with molasses, mix with Apple cider vinegar, or mix with papaya.
Right now I give papaya with all my pelleted feed and my horses eat every morsel of food.
I do agree with giving free choice hay, as it sounds like if he is eating it all up, he isn't getting enough, I always like for them to have leftovers, this will also help prevent ulcers. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Thank you!
He doesnt clean it all up right away... he eats a good marjority, goes and grazes maybe drinks and munches on it the rest of the evening but I guess my point is hes not leaving food uneaten besides maybe a tiny bit which I believe is normal.??
I was just trying to see if there was a supplement I should be looking at. hes not skinny by any means but hes just thinner than preferred |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| cheryl makofka - 2014-07-20 8:32 PM
Not many horses will initially clean up the powdered supplements. I always start mine out and either wet the pelleted foods, mix with a little red cell, mix with molasses, mix with Apple cider vinegar, or mix with papaya.
Right now I give papaya with all my pelleted feed and my horses eat every morsel of food.
I do agree with giving free choice hay, as it sounds like if he is eating it all up, he isn't getting enough, I always like for them to have leftovers, this will also help prevent ulcers.
Sometimes he leaves some of his forco but he will usually go back and clean it up. However, when I had him on cool calories and/or weight builder... he left the majority of the powder in the feeder. Do people just spray the feed with water? or how much water do you add? |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | stayceem - 2014-07-20 8:23 PM LMS - 2014-07-20 8:41 AM If he's eating what your feeding, then he's not too picky! IMO he just needs more! Weigh your grain to be sure and throw in more hay, if he's cleaning it up how is he ever going to have enough to gain? I guess I am a bit skeptical about just pushing strictly grain on him due to energy levels and stuff. Ill be checking to make sure hes getting the reccomended amount but posted because he doesnt eat supplements so yes i find him a picky eater in that respect.
Edited by LMS 2014-07-21 6:33 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | They probably aren't giving him enough hay. That was my problem with some of the barns I boarded at in the past... I would add alfalfa pellets or get him turned out on good pasture. If he's not cleaning up his grain I would also consider something for ulcers.
I have personally fed rice bran and seen good results. If he wasn't gaining with that, I would again suspect ulcers (which if he is not on pasture and just getting a couple flakes of hay/grain twice per day, is not uncommon per the studies I read). |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | stayceem - 2014-07-20 9:01 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-07-20 8:32 PM Not many horses will initially clean up the powdered supplements. I always start mine out and either wet the pelleted foods, mix with a little red cell, mix with molasses, mix with Apple cider vinegar, or mix with papaya. Right now I give papaya with all my pelleted feed and my horses eat every morsel of food. I do agree with giving free choice hay, as it sounds like if he is eating it all up, he isn't getting enough, I always like for them to have leftovers, this will also help prevent ulcers. Sometimes he leaves some of his forco but he will usually go back and clean it up. However, when I had him on cool calories and/or weight builder... he left the majority of the powder in the feeder. Do people just spray the feed with water? or how much water do you add?
Anytime I'm adding a powdered supplement, I wet their feed. Just a light mist to make the powder stick to the pellets.
I've also used applesauce before. Just to mask the taste/smell of the meds/supplements. And applesauce is also something that will stick to the feed.
Does your boarding stable feed for you? Is it possible that they could feed him 3x a day instead of just 2? For his size I just don't think he's eating enough. And it would be more beneficial to him to add more feedings than to add more feed to each feeding. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| Being a picky eater can be the only noticeable symptom of ulcers.
I'd get the horse checked, or start treating and see if you notice an improvement. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | I would try Renew Gold. I've had nothing but GREAT results with it! Give them a call; they are very helpful. |
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Picky Eater - - who has them? Weight Supplements