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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
   
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Tell me your training techniques. Thanks :) |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | You don't say.......very interesting.....I did not know that..... |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Are you talking to yourself? |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| To me, it's not terribly easy to convey. That may be why you're not getting scads of replies 
You might search videos on youtube, then you would have visuals as well.  |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | barrelracr131 - 2014-08-06 8:01 AM Are you talking to yourself?
Maybe..... |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | bennie1 - 2014-08-06 8:02 AM To me, it's not terribly easy to convey. That may be why you're not getting scads of replies
You might search videos on youtube, then you would have visuals as well.
Ok lol....I can try that :) |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Also, you want to create energy with you legs, but don't let it out the front door. Think about cueing the horse on, but having the energy go UP instead of OUT. Light contact on the mouth. The horse will lift it's back and shorten the stride, and round out.
Here is perhaps the most dramatic example, a Piaffe (trotting in place)
Vs extension:
Edited by barrelracr131 2014-08-06 8:08 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Nice Collected trot
I'm using dressage examples because it is easier to see.
See how is back is "lifted up"? The energy is coming from the hind end. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | What's up with the giant picture?
Ok, I kind of get what you're saying. I am responsible for holding the head in the right position, right? I thought that there would be a contraption to put on him first......
Man, trainers starving your horses sure makes it hard on a girl. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Do the bridles that they are wearing serve any collection purpose? I see the nose band on all of them... |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:11 AM What's up with the giant picture?
Ok, I kind of get what you're saying. I am responsible for holding the head in the right position, right? I thought that there would be a contraption to put on him first......
Man, trainers starving your horses sure makes it hard on a girl.
In the beggining, I would just focus on getting them working on the hind end and don't fuss with head position, especially since you are dealing with youngsters.
You want to feel a PUSH from the hind instead of them trolling around on the forelegs |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:13 AM
Do the bridles that they are wearing serve any collection purpose? I see the nose band on all of them...
Ignore that, it's a dressage thing. They use them to hold the mouth closed and it is also tradition |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | barrelracr131 - 2014-08-06 8:13 AM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:11 AM What's up with the giant picture?
Ok, I kind of get what you're saying. I am responsible for holding the head in the right position, right? I thought that there would be a contraption to put on him first......
Man, trainers starving your horses sure makes it hard on a girl. In the beggining, I would just focus on getting them working on the hind end and don't fuss with head position, especially since you are dealing with youngsters.
You want to feel a PUSH from the hind instead of them trolling around on the forelegs
And....how do I do that lol? |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Seriously it is hard to explain just typing words. Would you happen to have any English/Dressage places near you. I promise it would be easiest to pay for a few lessons than to have someone to try to tell you on here. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:14 AM
barrelracr131 - 2014-08-06 8:13 AM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:11 AM What's up with the giant picture?
Ok, I kind of get what you're saying. I am responsible for holding the head in the right position, right? I thought that there would be a contraption to put on him first......
Man, trainers starving your horses sure makes it hard on a girl. In the beggining, I would just focus on getting them working on the hind end and don't fuss with head position, especially since you are dealing with youngsters.
You want to feel a PUSH from the hind instead of them trolling around on the forelegs
You probably first need to establish a few buttons ... meaning does the horse move off you leg well?
I like to work on collection after I have the colt moving well off my leg pressure. Then like Allison said, you are looking to hold the energy in the horse by squeezing gently with your legs (get them to move forward) but holding their face initially with your hands thus allowing the energy to go up instead of out - thus creating a shorter stride, lifting the rib cage, allowing the rear to reach under the body farther, etc. While teaching this, it is important to focus on baby steps in the progress and allow the colt the freedom to collect and then immediately release the all cues and pressure. Eventually when it gets what is going on, you can hold the collection for longer and longer periods.
Its super hard to explain and ... time and feel are incredibly important when teaching this correctly. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-08-06 8:31 AM Seriously it is hard to explain just typing words. Would you happen to have any English/Dressage places near you. I promise it would be easiest to pay for a few lessons than to have someone to try to tell you on here.
I believe you and no lol. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-06 8:32 AM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:14 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-08-06 8:13 AM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:11 AM What's up with the giant picture?
Ok, I kind of get what you're saying. I am responsible for holding the head in the right position, right? I thought that there would be a contraption to put on him first......
Man, trainers starving your horses sure makes it hard on a girl. In the beggining, I would just focus on getting them working on the hind end and don't fuss with head position, especially since you are dealing with youngsters.
You want to feel a PUSH from the hind instead of them trolling around on the forelegs You probably first need to establish a few buttons ... meaning does the horse move off you leg well? I like to work on collection after I have the colt moving well off my leg pressure. Then like Allison said, you are looking to hold the energy in the horse by squeezing gently with your legs (get them to move forward ) but holding their face initially with your hands thus allowing the energy to go up instead of out - thus creating a shorter stride, lifting the rib cage, allowing the rear to reach under the body farther, etc. While teaching this, it is important to focus on baby steps in the progress and allow the colt the freedom to collect and then immediately release the all cues and pressure. Eventually when it gets what is going on, you can hold the collection for longer and longer periods. Its super hard to explain and ... time and feel are incredibly important when teaching this correctly.
No, that's great. I understand what you are saying. It gave me a good mental picture. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:36 AM
lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-06 8:32 AM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:14 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-08-06 8:13 AM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:11 AM What's up with the giant picture?
Ok, I kind of get what you're saying. I am responsible for holding the head in the right position, right? I thought that there would be a contraption to put on him first......
Man, trainers starving your horses sure makes it hard on a girl. In the beggining, I would just focus on getting them working on the hind end and don't fuss with head position, especially since you are dealing with youngsters.
You want to feel a PUSH from the hind instead of them trolling around on the forelegs You probably first need to establish a few buttons ... meaning does the horse move off you leg well? I like to work on collection after I have the colt moving well off my leg pressure. Then like Allison said, you are looking to hold the energy in the horse by squeezing gently with your legs (get them to move forward ) but holding their face initially with your hands thus allowing the energy to go up instead of out - thus creating a shorter stride, lifting the rib cage, allowing the rear to reach under the body farther, etc. While teaching this, it is important to focus on baby steps in the progress and allow the colt the freedom to collect and then immediately release the all cues and pressure. Eventually when it gets what is going on, you can hold the collection for longer and longer periods. Its super hard to explain and ... time and feel are incredibly important when teaching this correctly.
and when all else fails, beat 'em with a stick. j/k |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM
You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear.
said much better than I ... |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-06 8:48 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. said much better than I ...
Ohhhh, I don't know lol....her version sounded a bit like magic to me......collect the magic in your hands.....what do I do once I have the magic in my hands? |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:54 AM
lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-06 8:48 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. said much better than I ...
hmmmmmm ... throw in some harry potter spells and let it flow! You'll need a magic wand to .... remember "the wand chooses the wizard" .... |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-06 9:29 AM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:54 AM lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-06 8:48 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. said much better than I ... hmmmmmm ... throw in some harry potter spells and let it flow! You'll need a magic wand to .... remember "the wand chooses the wizard" ....
COLLECTO PERFORMITUS (poof) |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| LRQHS - 2014-08-06 9:33 AM
lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-06 9:29 AM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 8:54 AM lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-06 8:48 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. said much better than I ... hmmmmmm ... throw in some harry potter spells and let it flow! You'll need a magic wand to .... remember "the wand chooses the wizard" ....
lift and flick --- make sure to use proper wand safety. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | You peeps are cray cray. I've never watched or read Harry Potter, but I kinda doubt he has a clue about capturing a horse's ass-energy in his hands. |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 9:52 AM
You peeps are cray cray. I've never watched or read Harry Potter, but I kinda doubt he has a clue about capturing a horse's ass-energy in his hands.
You'd be surprised! 
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I need brain bleach now. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | I just vomited. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Another good way to think is to pretend you are riding just the hind end. Imagine the horse shifting all weight and energy to that end... ignore the front and ride just the back of the horse. (in other words, don't focus on where the head is). The goal is to have the horse tracking up (the back foot will step overtop of where the front foot on the same side landed). You can see where the feet land by looking at imprints in the sand.
See here:
This horse is NOT tracking up and is on the forehand:
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Sweet love of God, I need a trainer lol. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| LRQHS - 2014-08-06 10:05 AM
I just vomited.
me too. ug. |
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Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| Gunner11 - 2014-08-06 10:00 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 9:52 AM You peeps are cray cray. I've never watched or read Harry Potter, but I kinda doubt he has a clue about capturing a horse's ass-energy in his hands. You'd be surprised!
uh....that's just creepy .... |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear.
This is a good description, I will add that to be collected and lifted thru the back....they can't have their head straight up in the air.
Lightly set your hands and push with your seat and legs into them. You've got to have a light feel, don't pull....if they feel heavy, add leg, not hand.
I'd really recommend riding with a trainer if you can to at least get a feel for it. It's tough to describe.
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | MS2011 - 2014-08-06 10:28 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. This is a good description, I will add that to be collected and lifted thru the back....they can't have their head straight up in the air.
Lightly set your hands and push with your seat and legs into them. You've got to have a light feel, don't pull....if they feel heavy, add leg, not hand.
I'd really recommend riding with a trainer if you can to at least get a feel for it. It's tough to describe.
Trouble is finding a trainer around here. I refuse to leave my horses some place that I can't visit daily or every few days now. And, just finding a teacher is near impossible too. I'm not sure what to do.
I appreciate all of the responses though. I did learn a little :) |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | Hope you don't mind me asking some questions...
So, most everyone is saying don't worry about the head, I get that, but it also sounds like most everyone has light contact with the mouth?
And, posting? yay or nay? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Like this! haha!
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Ridenrun4745 - 2014-08-06 10:47 AM
Hope you don't mind me asking some questions...
So, most everyone is saying don't worry about the head, I get that, but it also sounds like most everyone has light contact with the mouth?
And, posting? yay or nay?
It's not a firm hold on the mouth but a bump/give type action. It is also not continuous contact.
posting - meh. depends on who you are training with, how you ride, if your horse has a clue what you are asking ..... etc. Sorry I can't be more specific but this stuff is really hard to describe in general terms if you are not riding with a trainer that can see what you are doing and correct you and the horse at the same time ... does that make sense? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas | I sent my horses and going to ride weekly with a WC reining trainer and what they are telling you above is what he is teaching me. I always thought mine were collected and broke in the poll. Haha what he has taught me |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | LRQHS - 2014-08-06 10:33 AM MS2011 - 2014-08-06 10:28 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. This is a good description, I will add that to be collected and lifted thru the back....they can't have their head straight up in the air.
Lightly set your hands and push with your seat and legs into them. You've got to have a light feel, don't pull....if they feel heavy, add leg, not hand.
I'd really recommend riding with a trainer if you can to at least get a feel for it. It's tough to describe.
I appreciate all of the responses though. I did learn a little :)
Seriously, if you can go ride with Levi Olson. He is in Texas, so shouldn't be too far for you! This man can work wonders with you AND your horse! |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-08-06 1:05 PM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 10:33 AM MS2011 - 2014-08-06 10:28 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. This is a good description, I will add that to be collected and lifted thru the back....they can't have their head straight up in the air.
Lightly set your hands and push with your seat and legs into them. You've got to have a light feel, don't pull....if they feel heavy, add leg, not hand.
I'd really recommend riding with a trainer if you can to at least get a feel for it. It's tough to describe.
I appreciate all of the responses though. I did learn a little :)
Do you know where he is in TX? |
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Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | LRQHS - 2014-08-06 1:06 PM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-08-06 1:05 PM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 10:33 AM MS2011 - 2014-08-06 10:28 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. This is a good description, I will add that to be collected and lifted thru the back....they can't have their head straight up in the air.
Lightly set your hands and push with your seat and legs into them. You've got to have a light feel, don't pull....if they feel heavy, add leg, not hand.
I'd really recommend riding with a trainer if you can to at least get a feel for it. It's tough to describe.
I appreciate all of the responses though. I did learn a little :)
Check him out on FB!
Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2014-08-06 1:12 PM
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-08-06 1:11 PM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 1:06 PM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-08-06 1:05 PM LRQHS - 2014-08-06 10:33 AM MS2011 - 2014-08-06 10:28 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-06 8:46 AM You don't want to put the head into position, you create energy from behind and capture it with your hands. The horse comes into your hands and onto the bit. And when they're learning, they can only collect a few strides at a time because it takes a lot of strength. A lot of people make the mistake of using draw reins or a German martingale to force the horse into a frame and call it collection, but it's not. It's only a frame without impulsion from the rear. This is a good description, I will add that to be collected and lifted thru the back....they can't have their head straight up in the air.
Lightly set your hands and push with your seat and legs into them. You've got to have a light feel, don't pull....if they feel heavy, add leg, not hand.
I'd really recommend riding with a trainer if you can to at least get a feel for it. It's tough to describe.
I appreciate all of the responses though. I did learn a little :)
Check him out on FB!
Ok. I'll look him up. Thanks. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | Think if it as if your horse were to walk into a wall, the head drop, shoulders become light, topline rounds, hind end comes underneath. You need impulsion, cadence and STRENGTH!!! You need to ride with your seat and legs, try to think as if you are scooping up your horses tummy! Good Luck!!!
Edited by MC1993 2014-08-06 1:25 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Oh come on ... we like the magic wand waving and making up nerdy things to make us feel better while trying to catch the elusive unicorn known as collection ... |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | ...soooooo, there's no magic in collection? Not even a little??? :( |
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Veteran
Posts: 147
| A reining trainer can help you with this if you have one near you. It is not something you can learn over night, but so worth all the effort and time to learn it. Never give up trying to learn it, it is the key to any atheltic event you will ever do on a horse. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | fabulous2006 - 2014-08-06 1:49 PM A reining trainer can help you with this if you have one near you. It is not something you can learn over night, but so worth all the effort and time to learn it. Never give up trying to learn it, it is the key to any atheltic event you will ever do on a horse.
I really need a trainer to teach me. That's what I'm learning through all of this. I definitely don't have the riding skills. Hmmmmm, now to find a reiner near by..... |
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