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Expert
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| So I'll share symptoms incase it might help someone: the horse was one & off lame on the front end. One day fine, next day off, next day fine, next day lame. Weird stuff.
Here's what happened at the vet: 1. lameness exam 2. blocked RF 3. lameness 4. x-rays (showed lesion on navicular bone) 5. Injected coffin joint because he didn't want to go through the (flexor?) to inject bersa (sp?)
Here's my new plan: Figure out what THE sup she needs to be on, keep her on low dose previcox, inject coffin as long as possible, BOT bell boots. Explore other options such as Tildren and de-nerving. Keep her sound and happy competing for as long as I can and when I feel she is in pain or unhappy competing she will be a momma.
Questions:
1. Your experiences with trying to compete on a navicular horse? Please include how severe your horse is/was. What did you do? How did it work? ect
2. My vet said he wasn't sure how much good the IM shots (adequan, pentosan ect) could do me. Have yall ever tried this with navicular horses?
3. Any experience with Tildren (cost? Good? Bad?) and/or Nerving (Cost? Good? Bad? Did you compete on the horse?)
thank you in advance. I have never had to deal with this before :( |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 393
Location: Texas | I am in same boat as you! :(
My vet suggested my mare be in wedge shoes and previcox daily... We are trying to hold off as long as possible on the injections to the navicular bursa.. In another month or so we are going to do Tildren on her. I had it done on a horse with a bad hock and it worked wonders.... My vet thinks it is going to help my navicular mare, we will see...
Curious to see what others say... |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| TILDREN put my horse in the competition pen again! |
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 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | Navicular is no longer the career ending diagnosis that it once was. There are lots of different things that you can try before going as far as nerving, although as a last resort that has kept many horses comfortable long into their older years competing.
I first would try some corrective shoeing (if your vet didnt give you any shoeing recommendations I have some good literature that can help in that department- just let me know). You definitely are headed in the right direction with the coffin joint injections... Like your vet said, you can inject the navicular bursa but it carries a little more risk as you have to go through the deep digital flexor tendon with the needle. Tildren has also proven to be pretty efficacious although it can be pricey. Did they radiograph both front feet? I would be curious as to what the left front looked like as navicular is very commonly a bilateral phenomenon, although usually worse on one side. That would probably help me decide if I was going to go the Tildren route whether I wanted to do it IV systemically or a localized distal limb perfusion.
Nerving would be a last resort for me but definitely has allowed many navicular horses to go on and compete pain free... There is obviously many risks that come along with it (neuroma's, horse injuring itself further since it doesnt have the protective mechanism of feeling pain, etc.) BUT it can be a definite option.
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Thank you everyone.
as for shoeing I was told short round edged toes for break over. He said he's not a big fan of wedging them. I would be interested in anymore info.
As for the left, it's 99.9% sure she's got it there to but was just barely off in that foot compared to lame in the right. Did not X-ray left due to $. I would like to try tildren Iv eventually.
Question about tildren. Those that have done it and said you paid $500 or whatever was that 1 shot or (1) 10 day series? The website says to do a 10 day series of Iv injections. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Have you thought about trying Equine Natural Care Herbs.? |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I just wanted to say to NEVER NEVER let your vet inject from behind, through the tendon to get directly to the bursae. NEVER.
The first time you do that, you have about a 1 1/2 years left of use on your horse. That's it. I recently took my horse to a vet who used to do that all the time (my horse has front feet issues too, like yours) and he said it was great until they found out about that little side effect. He doesn't know exactly why that is or what causes it, he thinks it might have to do with the high concentration in the one area or disturbing the tendon ..... but either way, your horse will be dead lame in about 1 1/2 years and that's it.
Injecting from the front into the coffin joint does not carry the same horrible side effect, thankfully.
I second the wedge shoes and the Previcoxx suggestions. 
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 368
Location: Ellensburg, Washington | I have a question about Tildren. It says IV slowly daily for 10 days. Those of you that used it, you hauled your horse to the vet everyday for 10 days to have them do the IV or did your vet trust you enough to adminster yourself? What was the cost for treatment and how often do you repeat? |
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It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-08 2:56 PM Thank you everyone. as for shoeing I was told short round edged toes for break over. He said he's not a big fan of wedging them. I would be interested in anymore info. As for the left, it's 99.9% sure she's got it there to but was just barely off in that foot compared to lame in the right. Did not X-ray left due to $. I would like to try tildren Iv eventually. Question about tildren. Those that have done it and said you paid $500 or whatever was that 1 shot or (1) 10 day series? The website says to do a 10 day series of Iv injections.
One round of Tildren is generally about $800-$1000 (this usually includes the 10 day series if that is your veterinarians preferred way of giving it). I've seen it given in a couple of different ways including that 10 day series and so far I've seen the best results with it given IV diluted in a bag of saline, or as a regional limb perfusion. |
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It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | r_beau - 2014-08-08 4:39 PM I just wanted to say to NEVER NEVER let your vet inject from behind, through the tendon to get directly to the bursae. NEVER.
The first time you do that, you have about a 1 1/2 years left of use on your horse. That's it. I recently took my horse to a vet who used to do that all the time (my horse has front feet issues too, like yours) and he said it was great until they found out about that little side effect. He doesn't know exactly why that is or what causes it, he thinks it might have to do with the high concentration in the one area or disturbing the tendon ..... but either way, your horse will be dead lame in about 1 1/2 years and that's it.
Injecting from the front into the coffin joint does not carry the same horrible side effect, thankfully.
I second the wedge shoes and the Previcoxx suggestions.
I don't think there have been any studies done to show this... This approach to injecting the bursa does carry a lot more risk than your general joint injection. BUT, injecting just the coffin joint is not at all guaranteed to diffuse to the navicular bursa and much of the time it does not. It's one of those things where you weigh the risks vs. benefit. |
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Veteran
Posts: 193
Location: TEXAS | Why are navicular bursa injections not working for you? My rodeo gelding has had it done about three times he is 14 and still running hard. Just curious why a person would not try this first before nerving one. I get it about the needle going thru the DDFT. But if you have problems with the navicular bone already like lollipos and remodeling you have got to do something to get the inflammation out. Injections in general are not the cure all answer and they usually lead to more injections eventually & more freqent too. I have tried "special shoeing, NB, that vasodialater feed stuff horse pill (cant remember name of it). My horse has underslung feet, sidebone, and surgery to a ligament in one front leg. Here is whats working this far bursa injections once a year, 1/2 tab previcox everyday, double dose MSM everyday, normal shoeing, and only exercising in straight lines no circles or strenuous stuff. Oh yeah 24/7 turnout.
Edited by BRN4CASH 2014-08-08 8:49 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1159
Location: alabama | barrelracingchick16 - 2014-08-08 1:50 PM
Navicular is no longer the career ending diagnosis that it once was. There are lots of different things that you can try before going as far as nerving, although as a last resort that has kept many horses comfortable long into their older years competing.
I first would try some corrective shoeing (if your vet didnt give you any shoeing recommendations I have some good literature that can help in that department- just let me know). You definitely are headed in the right direction with the coffin joint injections... Like your vet said, you can inject the navicular bursa but it carries a little more risk as you have to go through the deep digital flexor tendon with the needle. Tildren has also proven to be pretty efficacious although it can be pricey. Did they radiograph both front feet? I would be curious as to what the left front looked like as navicular is very commonly a bilateral phenomenon, although usually worse on one side. That would probably help me decide if I was going to go the Tildren route whether I wanted to do it IV systemically or a localized distal limb perfusion.
Nerving would be a last resort for me but definitely has allowed many navicular horses to go on and compete pain free... There is obviously many risks that come along with it (neuroma's, horse injuring itself further since it doesnt have the protective mechanism of feeling pain, etc.) BUT it can be a definite option.
I agree on NOT nerving!! I JUST put a horse down due to someone nerving him previously. The nerves grew back and he was in horrible pain. It's not fair to the horse to keep competing on a nerved horse, the inside is still breaking down the more wear an tear u put on them. Maybe others have had better luck, this was just my experience and it was SUPER hard to watch! |
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 Winner winner chicken dinner
Posts: 2047
Location: California | You are getting a lot of great advice, but I want to add one simple and cheap suggestion for you. If you pen up your horse (even for feeding for a few hours a day) add pea gravel to her pen. The small, smooth rocks help stimulate the foot and circulation. It is very cheap and made a notcible difference in my horse's comfort. Good luck to you and your horse! |
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Veteran
Posts: 296
| My horse was diagnosed with navicular at age 5...by the fall of his 6 year old year he was a grade 4 out of 5 on the lameness scale. We did the stem cell injections (he was too far advanced for Tildren and bursa injections weren't working) and he's 8 now and at the top of his game, good enough I bought my permit. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Thanks again to all of the responses.
I'm having the farrier out tomorrow morning. I started previcox today. She's on FalmOxide. I'm not sure if it will help or not but we'll see. I'm not choosing nerving before injecting the bursa but like everyone has pretty much agreed, injecting the bursa is very risky and once you do it it usually is conformation your getting in pretty bad shape.
Since she has been only slightly off every now and then without any help for her feet hopefully the extra things I'm doing now will make a big difference for a while. Big ole just wait and see. I do want to try the Tildren. The vet I work for quotes me around $1000 per treatment. My manager is going to get me a more accurate quote Monday. At least that way they can take small chunks out of my checks. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | First, get the horse so that they are sound to ride. Second, teach the horse what is called, "hind quarters front quarters." This teaches the horse to balance out their weight, and let their hind end do its fair share of the "heavy lifting." Buy any Buck Brannaman or Steve Rother video that goes over this, and it will be well worth the money and will make your vet and pain management money go further. I'm not saying since the horse navicular already it will be enough alone, but I would rather see you get the best possible results and the most out of your money. Good luck! |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| Does your horse have contracted heels? If he does, start working on getting the heels spread. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: Up and over to the right | Bar shoes, degree pads, Isox, MSM and the occasional day of bute kept my guy going for years. My vet said I had to keep him moving even on his off days, the more he moved, the better it was for him. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| What it isox? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-09 7:40 AM
What it isox?
Isoxiprine
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Found out today one of my horses is navicular. I have a few questions.