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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
   
Location: Missouri | I've asked before about this horse and was told the cracks were surface cracks and not to worry. But, I feel like his feet are falling apart now! Are they as awful as they look?
Back story, he was my main man, feet were in rough shape (VERY overgrown) when I first got him three years ago. They had vertical cracks all over. The largest cracks never did go away. This spring, vet said it was time to retire due to arthritis in his knees  In June, I had his shoes pulled and he's been turned out since. His last trim was about 4 weeks ago.
Prior to him being turned out, he was on feed with biotin, in addition to a biotin supplement.
His feet are getting worse by the day! Is he just one that can't go barefoot?
Any suggestions? Recommendations? He is 20. I attached two left pics, two right, and one of his general condition. All were taken today.
Thanks so much for any help. He's really special and I want him to be as comfortable as possible!
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Dang they are a shelly mess, if he was mine, I would put shoes back on him and get him back on his supplements. Were the supplements working befor you pulled shoes and turned him out? Is the problem with his front feet only or all four? |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Holy ****!!!! This horse is out of balance.. As everyone can see... Notching the crack without going through to the white line is not working..... Get the horse back in balance and lace the vertical cracks.. and add Biotin to the diet!!! And be prepared to wait a year.. It takes that long to grow a hoofwall from the hairline to the ground.. (where is that stupid bich that keeps saying to notch a vertical crack?) THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T DO THAT!!! |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Yikes. The vertical crack was notched by the Amish farrier that trimmed him last.
We are in a VERY bad location for farriers.
Here is a picture of his left foot in Feb. His shoes were off for the winter. I put him on the additional biotin after this photo. I know I took picture 60 days later, but can't find them. I also had his shoes put back on in March, so I don't know what made a bigger difference?
The other photo was taken in May and was never intended to be a picture of his feet, so I'm sorry about the quality. You can get the idea of what he looked like in shoes though. This job was done by students at the Heartland Horseshoeing School. They were in the area doing a clinic, so I brought him by. The put the side clips on hoping to hold his feet together. I wasn't able to continue with their treatment, though. There is a possibility that they will be back, or at least one of their instructors and I could definintely have him done again.
I'm not exaggerating when I say I have tried every even slightly recommended farrier that will come!!! I cannot haul all of mine to have them done, but I would be willing to take him anywhere that could help.
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | eta: problem is in front feet only. Back feet don't have any cracks and only minor chips |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | just4fun - 2014-08-22 11:39 PM
Yikes. The vertical crack was notched by the Amish farrier that trimmed him last.
We are in a VERY bad location for farriers.
Here is a picture of his left foot in Feb. His shoes were off for the winter. I put him on the additional biotin after this photo. I know I took picture 60 days later, but can't find them. I also had his shoes put back on in March, so I don't know what made a bigger difference?
The other photo was taken in May and was never intended to be a picture of his feet, so I'm sorry about the quality. You can get the idea of what he looked like in shoes though. This job was done by students at the Heartland Horseshoeing School. They were in the area doing a clinic, so I brought him by. The put the side clips on hoping to hold his feet together. I wasn't able to continue with their treatment, though. There is a possibility that they will be back, or at least one of their instructors and I could definintely have him done again.
I'm not exaggerating when I say I have tried every even slightly recommended farrier that will come!!! I cannot haul all of mine to have them done, but I would be willing to take him anywhere that could help.
Is it just the front feet or all four, I would be feeding a good supplement and find or keep trying to find a good farrier, dang they look pretty bad to me. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | just4fun - 2014-08-22 11:42 PM eta: problem is in front feet only. Back feet don't have any cracks and only minor chips
Thats were all his weight is, I would be keeping his front shoed for sure.. Hes a good looking fella, I have a gelding thats got crappy shelly feet to, hes out in the back pasture but going to bring him back up to get him back on a supplement for his feet. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | just4fun - 2014-08-22 11:39 PM
Yikes. The vertical crack was notched by the Amish farrier that trimmed him last.
We are in a VERY bad location for farriers.
Here is a picture of his left foot in Feb. His shoes were off for the winter. I put him on the additional biotin after this photo. I know I took picture 60 days later, but can't find them. I also had his shoes put back on in March, so I don't know what made a bigger difference?
The other photo was taken in May and was never intended to be a picture of his feet, so I'm sorry about the quality. You can get the idea of what he looked like in shoes though. This job was done by students at the Heartland Horseshoeing School. They were in the area doing a clinic, so I brought him by. The put the side clips on hoping to hold his feet together. I wasn't able to continue with their treatment, though. There is a possibility that they will be back, or at least one of their instructors and I could definintely have him done again.
I'm not exaggerating when I say I have tried every even slightly recommended farrier that will come!!! I cannot haul all of mine to have them done, but I would be willing to take him anywhere that could help.
Yes.. very wide quarter clips to prevent expansion in front of the frog is a good idea... I can't see how thick the wall is so maybe lacing is not an option if they are thin... I remember something from school tho.... a good farrier can extend around the toe and drill short holes and screw it in place... a radiator clamp band... just cut it off..
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Poor farrier, underslung heels, long toe especially in the second picture.
You need to find a good barefoot trimmer, or educate yourself to fix the problem.
As komet said he is unbalanced as well.
To get rid of the cracks and shelly feet, you need to feed internally, I would feed flax, maybe some silica, you could give a bit of coconut oil as well.
I would also start putting fish oil at the top of the cornet to moisturizer the foot. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | And another thing, I would make sure who ever does the shoeing to use small nails for now. Does he have a hard time keeping shoes on? |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | cheryl makofka - 2014-08-22 11:50 PM Poor farrier, underslung heels, long toe especially in the second picture. You need to find a good barefoot trimmer, or educate yourself to fix the problem. As komet said he is unbalanced as well. To get rid of the cracks and shelly feet, you need to feed internally, I would feed flax, maybe some silica, you could give a bit of coconut oil as well. I would also start putting fish oil at the top of the cornet to moisturizer the foot.
So, turning him out isn't an option anymore?
He's spent the last two months as a wild brumby and loved it! lol! |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Southtxponygirl - 2014-08-22 11:53 PM And another thing, I would make sure who ever does the shoeing to use small nails for now. Does he have a hard time keeping shoes on?
No, never had a problem with lost shoes. |
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 Vodka for Lunch
Location: Lala Land | What did your vet advise going further with this horse? |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Southtxponygirl - 2014-08-22 11:53 PM
And another thing, I would make sure who ever does the shoeing to use small nails for now. Does he have a hard time keeping shoes on?
#5 is the standard for normal horses... Tho there are slimmer nails... Not sure what they are today.. Capewell and Izumi were our nails of choice.. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | just4fun - 2014-08-22 11:56 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-08-22 11:53 PM And another thing, I would make sure who ever does the shoeing to use small nails for now. Does he have a hard time keeping shoes on? No, never had a problem with lost shoes.
Now thats a good sign, when he was on supplements could you tell if his feet looked better/less cracking ? |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | komet. - 2014-08-22 11:59 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-08-22 11:53 PM And another thing, I would make sure who ever does the shoeing to use small nails for now. Does he have a hard time keeping shoes on? #5 is the standard for normal horses... Tho there are slimmer nails... Not sure what they are today.. Capewell and Izumi were our nails of choice..
I would worry about the bigger nails causing more cracking with his dry shelly hoofs. I would want the slimmer nails till the dry shelly got under control. |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Lovin Life - 2014-08-22 11:56 PM What did your vet advise going further with this horse?
No hoof advice. I took him due to lameness in right front. Being told he was done was shocking and sickening. I couldn't think to ask any questions.
He was injected in both knees in March and May. He is still lame.
Vet did say we could try IRAP, but very slim chance it would help as there is too little joint space.
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | YIKES! Your farrier is 99% of your problem. Really look at the 2nd picture you posted, the top section of the foot is the angle his hoof "wants" to grow at but the farrier is allowing him to have underrun heels & WAY to much toe. If the trim was correct it would help a ton with the cracking as the way he is trimmed is causing a lot of stress on the hoof wall & causes the cracks. His feet are cracking & chipping in part as their own way of trying to trim themselves to where they need to be. I really don't think your issue is nutrition if his back feet are normal & healthy looking. I drew lines on the one pic to show where his foot should be.....
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Southtxponygirl - 2014-08-23 12:00 AM just4fun - 2014-08-22 11:56 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-08-22 11:53 PM And another thing, I would make sure who ever does the shoeing to use small nails for now. Does he have a hard time keeping shoes on? No, never had a problem with lost shoes.
The vertical cracks are always present. I do not think the supplement made a difference with those. Maybe with the chipping? But, again, could have just looked better b/c he had shoes.
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Southtxponygirl - 2014-08-23 12:02 AM
komet. - 2014-08-22 11:59 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-08-22 11:53 PM And another thing, I would make sure who ever does the shoeing to use small nails for now. Does he have a hard time keeping shoes on? #5 is the standard for normal horses... Tho there are slimmer nails... Not sure what they are today.. Capewell and Izumi were our nails of choice..
I think the race nails are slimmer... The head size fitting into the nail holes in the shoe is what you watch... A #4 head will be small enough to let a normal shoe slop around... |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | If I'm doing my math right...
The supplement is 240mg/lb. I fed 1 ounce.
The feed is 1.15mg/lb. I fed ~5lb (depending on lots of factors)
So, he was getting a min. of 20mg/day.
Is that enough? Should I change? |
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Expert
Posts: 1207
| I would put him on the Farrier's Hoof Formula. Can get it through Valley Vet. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | SaraJean - 2014-08-22 11:08 PM YIKES! Your farrier is 99% of your problem. Really look at the 2nd picture you posted, the top section of the foot is the angle his hoof "wants" to grow at but the farrier is allowing him to have underrun heels & WAY to much toe. If the trim was correct it would help a ton with the cracking as the way he is trimmed is causing a lot of stress on the hoof wall & causes the cracks. His feet are cracking & chipping in part as their own way of trying to trim themselves to where they need to be. I really don't think your issue is nutrition if his back feet are normal & healthy looking. I drew lines on the one pic to show where his foot should be.....
Listen to this lady!!!!! Feed will help but without a proper trim nothing will get fixed. You can slap shoes on but if they get pulled off and take hoof you'll be a world of hurt. If you can't find a farrier get a stand a hoof rasp. You can trim your own horse! |
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 Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | You've been given some VERY bad advice on this post and some good advice as well. You do need a new farrier. Barefoot is not your problem, the trim IS your problem.
Due to the angle the feet are right now, you have a lack of blood flow and a very shelly cracking hoof. |
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I Need a Xanax!
Posts: 2774
| Great thread, lots of good info from farrierlady as usual. I have a gelding whose hooves looked just like that for 2 years after I got him and I finally started trimming him very short every 3 weeks or so and it helped a lot but his feet were still shelly soft and stayed cracked like this and were thin and flat and he kept central sulcrus thrush on and off pretty bad all the time. I'd get it healed(or so I thought) then it would come right back. Then out of totally unrelated circumstances I started feeding him SafeChoice Original feed and within 2 months I could not believe the difference in his hooves and I totally wasn't expecting that. His central sulcrus thrush went away and the groove nearly completely closed up and his hooves got harder(not chalky anymore) and quit splitting. So all that to say....after you consider that his toe needs to be backed way up...could his nutrition be lacking? I'm not necessarily trying to promote the Safe Choice feed but it DOES have something in it that made a world of difference in my horses hooves in a short amount of time!! |
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | SaraJean - 2014-08-22 10:08 PM YIKES! Your farrier is 99% of your problem. Really look at the 2nd picture you posted, the top section of the foot is the angle his hoof "wants" to grow at but the farrier is allowing him to have underrun heels & WAY to much toe. If the trim was correct it would help a ton with the cracking as the way he is trimmed is causing a lot of stress on the hoof wall & causes the cracks. His feet are cracking & chipping in part as their own way of trying to trim themselves to where they need to be. I really don't think your issue is nutrition if his back feet are normal & healthy looking. I drew lines on the one pic to show where his foot should be.....
THIS is what my thought was when I saw the pictures. His hoof WANTS to grow down. And the newer growth looks fairly healthy. Someone really needs to get your geldings angles right. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | I agree with farrierlady 100%. I also don't think any supplement will help. Maybe cut back the sugars in his diet if that is a factor. The only other thing I have to add is that maybe he has a fungal or bacterial infection going on that is creating the cracks and poor outer wall. I had one who cracked up, though not as badly as yours, and a couple anti fungal soaks along with an herbal hoof treatment from tractor supply stopped the cracking. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Sockittoemred - 2014-08-23 11:06 AM
I agree with farrierlady 100%. I also don't think any supplement will help. Maybe cut back the sugars in his diet if that is a factor. The only other thing I have to add is that maybe he has a fungal or bacterial infection going on that is creating the cracks and poor outer wall. I had one who cracked up, though not as badly as yours, and a couple anti fungal soaks along with an herbal hoof treatment from tractor supply stopped the cracking.
I have to disagree with you on supplements not working.
Yes you need to correct the balance, angles, of the feet, but if a horse is not digesting the food properly, or unable to absorb the nutrients needed, or is malnourished, the horses feet will still be dry brittle and shell like and continue to chip off.
One must correct the internal problems AND the external problems. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | cheryl makofka - 2014-08-23 2:34 PM Sockittoemred - 2014-08-23 11:06 AM I agree with farrierlady 100%. I also don't think any supplement will help. Maybe cut back the sugars in his diet if that is a factor. The only other thing I have to add is that maybe he has a fungal or bacterial infection going on that is creating the cracks and poor outer wall. I had one who cracked up, though not as badly as yours, and a couple anti fungal soaks along with an herbal hoof treatment from tractor supply stopped the cracking. I have to disagree with you on supplements not working. Yes you need to correct the balance, angles, of the feet, but if a horse is not digesting the food properly, or unable to absorb the nutrients needed, or is malnourished, the horses feet will still be dry brittle and shell like and continue to chip off. One must correct the internal problems AND the external problems.
I believe in a good diet and good supplements when needed, and I feed supplements, I have found a good joint supplement is also good for hair/coat and hoofs.  |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | He has a slight club foot. Pull the toe back and cut off some heel. Bevel the edges and they won't break off so bad. |
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| I'm surprised no one has asked. Where does this horse live?
My husband is a farrier and it appears this foot is experiencing extremes in moisture. Very wet, very dry, very wet, very dry..... Mix that with a horse that probably has TB blood and this seems to be a common result. |
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | the cracks are sand cracks/ grass cracls they don't botther me as much as the angle of his feet.
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 Night Chat Leader
Posts: 13150
Location: Home....Smiling M Farms | just4fun - 2014-08-23 12:23 AM If I'm doing my math right...
The supplement is 240mg/lb. I fed 1 ounce.
The feed is 1.15mg/lb. I fed ~5lb (depending on lots of factors)
So, he was getting a min. of 20mg/day.
Is that enough? Should I change? I feed mine 50 mg once a day and a thing of Knox gelatin. Makes all the difference in the world.
Edited by Leo 2014-08-24 4:05 AM
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I have very wet conditions and that is what is happening to my horses. I found that rain maker has improved that problem. The long toe needs to be corrected in order to help the hoof and stress. In order for biotin to work in the system it needs his partner D-L Methionine or biotin will not work. D-L Methionine by it self with produce hoof growth and with biotin will produce a healthy hoof. If you use 100% pure D-L Methionine and required amount of biotin the hoof will become rubber like that a hoof nipper can not cut within six months time. Creating a healthy solid hoof. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Cinchy girl - 2014-08-23 4:06 PM
I'm surprised no one has asked. Where does this horse live?
My husband is a farrier and it appears this foot is experiencing extremes in moisture. Very wet, very dry, very wet, very dry..... Mix that with a horse that probably has TB blood and this seems to be a common result.
Not necessarily true, I have 20 horses and they see wet and dry conditions, none of their feet are cracked.
Mine do get their feet done when they need it, are all on pasture with a good mineral free choice.
Also most of my horses if you look far enough into their pedigree are practically all thoroughbred
It all comes down to maintenance, caring for the feet, and ensuring they are getting a balanced diet fulfilling all their requirements. |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | cheryl makofka - 2014-08-24 11:38 AM Cinchy girl - 2014-08-23 4:06 PM I'm surprised no one has asked. Where does this horse live? My husband is a farrier and it appears this foot is experiencing extremes in moisture. Very wet, very dry, very wet, very dry..... Mix that with a horse that probably has TB blood and this seems to be a common result. Not necessarily true, I have 20 horses and they see wet and dry conditions, none of their feet are cracked. Mine do get their feet done when they need it, are all on pasture with a good mineral free choice. Also most of my horses if you look far enough into their pedigree are practically all thoroughbred It all comes down to maintenance, caring for the feet, and ensuring they are getting a balanced diet fulfilling all their requirements.
Would like to clarify that I also have other horses, ranging from 3 months to 32 years old. None have issues like this. I do care for their feet regularly and feed a balanced diet, including free choice minerals.
Cinchy girl~ his pasture conditions do vary. At home, he shares a small turnout (~2 acres) with one other horse. It is overgrazed, so a lot of dirt and short grass (mud in the spring). When he's "turned out" he is out on ~30 acres of grass with one other horse. The grass is very thick, but was baled earlier so is less that a foot tall. It gets heavy morning dew. His water source there is a pond (so he stands in water to drink).
He does have a lot of TB in his pedigree.
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| We have nine horses on pasture. We irrigate here and pull the horses off for a few days after we irrigate. If you look at a shod horse five days or so after they've been standing in water and their feet have dried out, the clinches have loosened just a bit from the foot expanding then contracting. We have a 20 year old paint horse that without shoes and left on the irrigated pasture would have the same cracking and would be sore.
I agree with the others that your horse will benefit from proper angles. It's nice to give your farrier something to work with though. I would try and control the moisture, proper trimming, and a healthy diet. It's not going to fix the joint issues but maybe clear up his feet to make him comfortable. My 6year old mare had the IRAP done and it didn't help due to the small amount of space in the joints. She had her whole barrel racing future ahead of her. Not sure it's worth the money to spend on a 20 year old gelding. JMO! Good luck.
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