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Extreme Veteran
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| So my gelding just got home from 60 days at a trainer. He's 8 years old, just started on the pattern during those 60 days. Before that our time was spent trail riding and some dressage lessons here and there.
I would like to point out before going any further that THIS BUCKING IS NOT A PAIN ISSUE. He has always been the horse that likes to buck when he gets wound up or excited. Even out in the field when he gets running around, he's a bucker.
At the trainer, he wasn't pushed for speed; understandable, he was JUST started on the pattern. He needs a smooth consistent pattern before we're asking for speed.
So I have taken him to three exhibitions and he's getting to the point where he is wanting to hustle a little more. I'm not asking for the hustle, I'm asking for nice smooth patterns. Obviously if he's comfortable hustling a little on his own, I'm not really going to need to be asking for it right now.
Yesterday he warmed up great. Loped a NICE smooth pattern, nice tight turns, all the barrels were still standing, and then coming out of the third barrel, he wanted to move out a little more. I let him a little bit, and then he started to get a little crow-hoppy (he bucks like a bronc when he can get his head down, rounded back, straight up stuff). I kept hold of his head, and pushed him forward through it, while holding on tightly :-D We finished with me still on the horse, so that is always a plus! I considered it a successful day! LOL!
Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time? That's where he gets into trouble because he thinks the running faster part is all about kicking up his heels (literally) and having fun. It might be fun for him, but not for me! LOL!
I do sprint him out on the trails, but it seems to be the arena where he gets a combination of excited and maybe a little nervous and that is when his MO is to kick up his heels.
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 Midget Lover
   
Location: Kentucky | I know you said it's not a pain issue, but have you had a lameness exam done on him, just to make certain?
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I totally feel your pain, suckerforhorses. I have a 4 YO that i've had a similar issue with, however mine did what you're describing at the exhibitions and then when I made a run on him at home, he worked a beautiful pattern and then bogged his head and made an audition for the eliminator pen at the NFR. We ran this colt at the track last year, so he KNOWS how to run with someone on him.
I have been to three different vets to make sure it isn't a pain issue, three complete flex tests and nothing. We injected his TMJ joint, put him on ulcer meds, and previcoxx just in case there was some minor inflammation somewhere we couldn't see that might be bothering him. I haven't had the nerve to try it again yet. I can handle one humping up with me and bucking along like that, but this bog your head and jump and kick like he did wasn't much fun and I am not too excited about doing it again.
I don't have the answer, but I do feel your pain. I've backed off of my colt on the barrels and just doing some basic stuff until he earns a little bit of my trust back.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| Murphy - 2014-08-25 11:55 AM
I know you said it's not a pain issue, but have you had a lameness exam done on him, just to make certain?
Yes, I'm certain per multiple vet exams and knowing my horse like the back of my hand.
So, in light of that clarification:
Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time?
Edited by SuckerForHorses 2014-08-25 11:10 AM
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:08 PM Murphy - 2014-08-25 11:55 AM I know you said it's not a pain issue, but have you had a lameness exam done on him, just to make certain?
Yes, I'm certain per multiple vet exams and knowing my horse like the back of my hand. So, in light of that clarification: Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time?
I didn't mean to offend, just asking. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| Murphy - 2014-08-25 12:15 PM
SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:08 PM Murphy - 2014-08-25 11:55 AM I know you said it's not a pain issue, but have you had a lameness exam done on him, just to make certain?
Yes, I'm certain per multiple vet exams and knowing my horse like the back of my hand. So, in light of that clarification: Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time?
Not offended, I know how some of these questions turn into 85 people asking about pain so I wanted to be sure it was addressed from the start. I have been guilty of pointing out the pain aspect when folks ask these sorts of questions, so that is always the first thing I rule out on my own horses also. | |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | Aside from Trying to ride it out and busting his butt, I have never come up with an answer to that question. With maturity I have had some come out of it.
Edited by clover girl 2014-08-25 11:30 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Of the 85 questions that will be asked
Are you sure it is not saddle fit. Have you watched videos to make sure the saddle isn't hitting his back when taking off from the barrel.
If he sprints at home fine, this leads me to believe something is different when he takes off from the barrel.
It could be stifle catching, sometimes a horse needs to kick out to get it to unlock
It could be something in the hock catching, I had a horse that felt like he was humping up and it was because his hocks were shot, he had bone spurs interfering with tendons, if you haven't xrayed it might be worth xraying as some horses will flex sound and they are not in pain till a tight turn.
Ribs out could cause a horse to buck, I had one would buck everytime her ribs were out, needless to say she is someone else's pasture pet now.
Pssm can cause horses to buck as the lactic acid buildup can cause cramping that can cause a horse to buck. There are more muscles used in barrel racing then just sprinting and this may be why he doesn't do it while sprinting.
Ulcers can cause a horse to do many things so I think about this when they are bucking.
The other thing is you might just have a dirty horse that will continue bucking, you will need to decide how far you are willing to go and how much you are willing to tolerate. I have seen a handful of buckers that are talented, personally I won't tolerate a bucker, my life is more important.
To help get a horse over it, wet saddle blankets, and roll backs in the arena. A no sugar diet, and turnout 24/7.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-08-25 11:34 AM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I would check my saddle all over and pad, cinch to make sure nothing is pinching him anywhere to cause him to want to buck, I have one that get's excited too at times, I checked all these just to make sure, and that's when I went with a different saddle pad and he stoped all his messing around, but then there is some horses that love to goof around and got to grow out of their playful ways.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-08-25 11:34 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| cheryl makofka - 2014-08-25 12:32 PM
Of the 85 questions that will be asked
Are you sure it is not saddle fit. Have you watched videos to make sure the saddle isn't hitting his back when taking off from the barrel.
If he sprints at home fine, this leads me to believe something is different when he takes off from the barrel.
It could be stifle catching, sometimes a horse needs to kick out to get it to unlock
It could be something in the hock catching, I had a horse that felt like he was humping up and it was because his hocks were shot, he had bone spurs interfering with tendons, if you haven't xrayed it might be worth xraying as some horses will flex sound and they are not in pain till a tight turn.
Ribs out could cause a horse to buck, I had one would buck everytime her ribs were out, needless to say she is someone else's pasture pet now.
Pssm can cause horses to buck as the lactic acid buildup can cause cramping that can cause a horse to buck. There are more muscles used in barrel racing then just sprinting and this may be why he doesn't do it while sprinting.
Ulcers can cause a horse to do many things so I think about this when they are bucking.
The other thing is you might just have a dirty horse that will continue bucking, you will need to decide how far you are willing to go and how much you are willing to tolerate. I have seen a handful of buckers that are talented, personally I won't tolerate a bucker, my life is more important.
To help get a horse over it, wet saddle blankets, and roll backs in the arena. A no sugar diet, and turnout 24/7.
I am aware of everything on this partial list of 85 questions and all have been considered, explored, and ruled out. I know this horse. I have had him since he was 3 and this bucking while excited or wound up has always been his response, not just now that we've started loping a pattern. He does it out on the trail when he gets excited as well.
Can we just humor me and answer the question about exercises that may help him understand the sprinting is his job, and not permission to F-off on the run home?
Thanks!
Edited by SuckerForHorses 2014-08-25 11:39 AM
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| be very careful........I have found even if I do get a horse past issues like you mention, i never trust them and it's hard to be confident when you know it's always a possibility.
As far as exercises......I would have him very tired before I ran barrels on him. Wear him out and maybe he will feel like working instead of goofing. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| clover girl - 2014-08-25 12:28 PM
Aside from Trying to ride it out and busting his butt, I have never come up with an answer to that question. With maturity I have had some come out of it.
I'm afraid this is the only "solution" so to speak.
Yesterday when we did our practice run, he was a little "stiff legged" so I knew there was some shenanigans up his sleeve so for our regular run I was ready for it.
I was NOT going to ask him to go faster (i.e. I was not going to kiss or squeeze, was just going to let him travel at whatever speed he felt comfortable) but when he started to crow hop, I kept his head up, grabbed ahold of my cantle, and DROVE him forward! He sped up and crow hopped a few times into that, and then came out of it the last few strides before we crossed the timer. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| y_do_i_do_this - 2014-08-25 12:39 PM
be very careful........I have found even if I do get a horse past issues like you mention, i never trust them and it's hard to be confident when you know it's always a possibility.
As far as exercises......I would have him very tired before I ran barrels on him. Wear him out and maybe he will feel like working instead of goofing.
Oh yeah, I'll always be on my toes with this one, even if he goes months without shenanigans! LOL!
BUT, I will say that he is very smart, and GENERALLY when he gets worked a few times so that he knows its WORK, and not a game, he likes to work and agrees to it very readily. That's why I'm thinking (hoping?) that once he realizes this is part of the JOB, it will be something he does honestly, like the rest of the work we do. | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 10:40 AM So my gelding just got home from 60 days at a trainer. He's 8 years old, just started on the pattern during those 60 days. Before that our time was spent trail riding and some dressage lessons here and there. I would like to point out before going any further that THIS BUCKING IS NOT A PAIN ISSUE. He has always been the horse that likes to buck when he gets wound up or excited. Even out in the field when he gets running around, he's a bucker. At the trainer, he wasn't pushed for speed; understandable, he was JUST started on the pattern. He needs a smooth consistent pattern before we're asking for speed. So I have taken him to three exhibitions and he's getting to the point where he is wanting to hustle a little more. I'm not asking for the hustle, I'm asking for nice smooth patterns. Obviously if he's comfortable hustling a little on his own, I'm not really going to need to be asking for it right now. Yesterday he warmed up great. Loped a NICE smooth pattern, nice tight turns, all the barrels were still standing, and then coming out of the third barrel, he wanted to move out a little more. I let him a little bit, and then he started to get a little crow-hoppy (he bucks like a bronc when he can get his head down, rounded back, straight up stuff). I kept hold of his head, and pushed him forward through it, while holding on tightly :-D We finished with me still on the horse, so that is always a plus! I considered it a successful day! LOL! Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time? That's where he gets into trouble because he thinks the running faster part is all about kicking up his heels (literally) and having fun. It might be fun for him, but not for me! LOL! I do sprint him out on the trails, but it seems to be the arena where he gets a combination of excited and maybe a little nervous and that is when his MO is to kick up his heels.
You are asking advice on here and everybody that has answered you are just trying to help, so dont take it wrong with the answers you get, you are getting good advice here...
To me if he dont buck while sprinting on trails, and he does in the arena running barrels, to me there is something going on, could be something not fitting right saddle, pad to stiff, cinch bothering him or he does hurt after making a tight turn and it hurts to move out so hes telling you, but then again he could be goofing off. But I dont think so. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| "He does it out on the trail when he gets excited as well. "
From a standstill. This isn't only something he does while on a pattern or sprinting on the trail. We could be walking along and if he gets wound up (other horses running, etc) his go-to is to buck and act like an idiot. While not doing anything other than walking.
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Extreme Veteran
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| And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere. | |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| MYO sell him its not worth you get hurt who can trust a bucker? send to a stock contractor for a while he either will get rode out of it or
may become a elimator nfl | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 876
Location: Wisconsin | Have to tried to sprint him and then if he humps up made him lope big fast circles? How about big fast circles? If he humps up make the circles smaller and more difficult? I would make him think that everytime he even thinks about humping up he is going to go to work. After he bucked on the run home did you continue out and work his butt off? I had one that would do it due to a saddle fit. Took care of that and he would do it if my foot got a little to far back. Everytime he did it he got worked hard. Now if he gets excited you can actually feel him think twice. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1531
Location: South | Almost every young horse i've started has wanted to buck and play once they felt confident enough to start really running on the way home. I don't know if it's because I don't ask for speed until they have successfully walked, trotted and loped a perfect pattern for months at exhibitions or what. I do wonder if it's because it never clicked with them that they get to go fast in the beggining, or what since I do take my time and do it correctly. I ruled out pain with the 3 I had that did it as well- and you definitely can tell they're playing, unfortunately the only thing that I could do was push past and ride out the buck.
It's extremely beneficial to breeze them on a track. Especially next to a seasoned horse who knows how to run. I find theyre too busy trying to pace them than to play. There is a lot of empty, open space to keep running through it instead of having to stop once you get past the timer and around all the other horses. All of mine finally got over it after riding it out, unfortunately.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:40 PM
And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere.
I agree, while mine is NOT a "chronic" bucker, I let him have a week off, & the first night I saddled him up & asked him to do something, he bucked me off. Needless to say he worked "perfect" circles for 30 minutes after that!!! And for the rest of the week too!!! He just felt good!!! (not as good the rest of the week though!!!  | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:40 PM
And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere.
There are not many horses that buck for other reasons then soundness.
Generally it is a training problem then, or you do have one of the few that is a dirty buggar.
My opinion the dirty ones need to be canned, too many horses that are bred nicely, good conformation that don't buck.
From your first post you said he only did it in the arena, now you are saying he does it even on the trail. From the example you gave on the trail, he is being disrespectful, and I would say a training issue.
The only way to see if the horse will get over it is wet saddle blankets, but if this horse has had over 60 days of riding, he should have quit bucking | |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | y_do_i_do_this - 2014-08-25 11:39 AM be very careful........I have found even if I do get a horse past issues like you mention, i never trust them and it's hard to be confident when you know it's always a possibility.
As far as exercises......I would have him very tired before I ran barrels on him. Wear him out and maybe he will feel like working instead of goofing.
ditto, as in sweat dripping, tired....they buck on me once and they better be ready, because IF I survive, they might not think they are going to survive. It is one of the habits that I DO NOT tolerate from any horse, no matter how "great" they are. My extremely spoiled, super nice gelding will hog a little in the spring and he will have spur marks on him by the time we are done.....no patience for that type of attitude even if you can interpret it as "fun" | |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | I had one that was a little cold backed.. never knew when he was going to attempt anything. Until the day (seemed like to the day) he turned 6 he was this way, but then never again after that. Every time he tried me, I would just set his butt in the ground and make his feet move. Around in circles, backing up, reverse arcs, even sometimes just lighting him up with my over/under.. something to let him know he was in trouble. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| cheryl makofka - 2014-08-25 3:39 PM SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:40 PM And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere. There are not many horses that buck for other reasons then soundness. Generally it is a training problem then, or you do have one of the few that is a dirty buggar. My opinion the dirty ones need to be canned, too many horses that are bred nicely, good conformation that don't buck. From your first post you said he only did it in the arena, now you are saying he does it even on the trail. From the example you gave on the trail, he is being disrespectful, and I would say a training issue. The only way to see if the horse will get over it is wet saddle blankets, but if this horse has had over 60 days of riding, he should have quit bucking
I realize it's a training issue or that he is a dirty bugger. That is why I am asking for exercises to see if I can get through the issue.
The trainer that he was at didn't ask for speed; the horse doesn't get excited just loping around on contact. He gets excited with the more forward lope/hand gallop/loose rein/exciting things. As the speed is coming along, and he feels more comfortable going faster, that is where he is getting excited and wants to be a turd.
So, that is why I am asking about exercises that I can do (TRAINING) to see if he improves with this TRAINING issue.
I understand wet saddle pads will definitely help. But I don't want to just ride him into the dirt before every competition either. I want to work productively on the issue. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| "My opinion the dirty ones need to be canned, too many horses that are bred nicely, good conformation that don't buck."
My horses are my horses for life, no matter. He won't be sold. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
| I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice. | |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | This is a tough subject for sure. OP, I do understand and I do know what it's like to be willing to try anything. My colt will run in the pasture as hard as he can go and kick over his head at a dead run. We have nearly patented the phrase "buck, fart, side-kick" as that is all he does....I have owned him since he was a weanling. This colt has always run everywhere he goes and bucked and kicked while doing it. He's just a feel good kind of horse. He has never blatently bucked with me before, even when I first started riding him after we brought him home from the race track, and there are some days I gave him good reason to. As we progressed, he got really nice and broke really quickly and was working a pattern handily after about 60 days. I cruised him through at home once a week or so. Took him to his first exhibition and he was so happy to be there. Ears up, paying attention, excited to be there. Didn't spook at all, went in and worked, and did one little crow hop about a stride or two after the third barrel. I sat him down and got his attention and that was it. Next time going to exhibitions he was more fussy. Not high or watchy, but just anxious. Diarrhea, etc. I wanted him to ease through and he wanted to go on a little bit, but I didn't let him. I held him and no humping up at all. Gave him a day off and started back on Monday. Took him out back and warmed him up....WELL. Loped a half mile both directions and long trotted a half mile both directions. Put his boots on and went to make a run, and he worked perfectly, and then tried to get at about where the time line would be.....were I started to pull up.
So all that being said.....training, maybe, but I think my program is working fairly well. Pain.....maybe, but only if it was ulcers, which id definitely could have been. Back girth.....maybe, I did take it off because he's always a little sensitive through the flank. He hasn't bowed up and bucked like that before or since and may never do it again, but it did scare me. So i'm baby stepping it right now. I really think he has developed some ulcers and that was the biggest thing. But I admit that I now ride him with something I can get his head up with and something I have a tinge more control.
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I like the comment that even though you gave him a chance to buck, he didn't! From my experience, those horses that buck during the pattern tend to have a few things in common.
1. They are usually large personality types-some happy, some not!
2. They are fed too well-look like a million bucks and feel that way too
3. When they buck, they do not get reprimanded to within an inch of their life and as they progress their bucking gets harder and stronger
4. The riders are usually pretty dang quiet, don't get too excited or kick too hard, you might set off "precious"
5. There is usually an excuse for lameness being an issue (which,surpisingly you do not have that excuse-which is great)
6. There is a large sum of money involved when buying/training the horse and therefore the horse isn't going anywhere-will just make her into a broodmare (I ask with that crappy attitude-not me!)
All in all what I'm getting at is put A LOT of miles on YOUR horse, become the boss, not the tag a long!! Bucking is not right, show your horse, do not wimp out or laugh it off-this is a serious deal, in the right situation you could be watching the dirt coming up to your body at a high rate of speed. I would even say round pen work is in order-respect get it. I've said before when my "precious" gets too full of himself he gets his legs worked off-that's loping a ton of circles-if you don't like that-I don't know what to tell you-some horses need it! You know what-my horse is 11 this year and with minimal warm up he is a charm! They do mature, they do age, but if you don't fix this, your horse isn't going to mature!! And will probably get worse!
Edited by LMS 2014-08-25 3:42 PM
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 Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| If you have a track that you can use... I'd have a friend pony me as fast as is safe to do so. He just may not know HOW to really run with weight on his back. When we first start the race horses that is what we will do. We put a rider on the new (young) horse and pony him around the track at a breezing type speed.
WHat some of seem to forget is running with weight on your back is way different than just walking or jogging. | |
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Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| Or race him up a long sloping hill. I have yet have a horse that can buck hard running UP hill.
Don't get me wrong I know they can still buck and crow hop but my experience is not hard. | |
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| I know you probably do not like LMS's answer, but I TOTALLY agree with her. I'm sorry. The truth hurts. And I have been there. It's hard to accept giving up on one and moving onto another.
Please do not get hurt. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | If he's getting crow-hoppy, whip his butt out of it. If he's breaking in 2, move on. I could never trust them. | |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:40 PM And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere. This is so very true. If you've ever watched grand prix show jumping you know horses don't always buck out of pain! Sorry, I don't have advice, I've just ridden a few that were, like your horse, buckers when they got excited. They just didn't do it very hard at all so it was easy to ride out.
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2014-08-25 11:55 PM
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I guess for me... I try and identify why they are bucking. A friends horse bucks out of excitement and another friends horse bucks out of lazyness.
So I think their training approaches need to be different. The mare who bucks out of excitement needs to be sad down hard and have a little come to jeses moment and then made to WORK and WORK hard! Because shes bucking to run which pushing them through it just encourages it (I think). Wheras, a horse who bucks because their looking to get out of work, will benefit by being pushed through it because thats not what they want. Push through it and dont let them rest for awhile.
I dunno if that makes sense. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I have had several horses do,that when you start to get speed. make sure that they are not fresh. Most of,the time when they buck it is,usually when youmare teaching them to gather thenselves at the barrels. Once you get after then a couple of times they stop it. Sometimes i,would lope circles and lope big faster circles like reines do.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Mine would do it when he was fresh. He's the type that likes having job. If he gets time off and goes back to work, he will buck soem little ones, "like WOOHOO! I'm doing something, yay!"
He also does it when the weather first turns cold in the fall. He doesn't do it on the pattern, just when riding in general. He did do it once or twice on the pattern as a young one and soon learned that was a poor choice. He's not mean or a dirty bucker, he's playful. He doesn't break in two, he hops around and maybe throws one good one.
When I first got him, I'd one rein him around to get him to quit, than lope circles till he was too tired to buck (some days this was dripping sweat mind you), then ride him a little more and quit on a good note. He learned that the bucking was not only unwanted, but it also led to a lot of boring and tiring busywork.
He's older now (17) and rarely does it now- pretty much only if he feels real good, it's cool, he hasn't been worked in a while, and he's feeling real froggy. I basically yell "hey, knock it off" if I feel him hunchy, and he quits... but I've also had him 10 years now. He's just goofy but has a good heart. He's a "forever young" in spirit type. :)
I realize I rambled a bit but hope my story helps ya. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| star1218 - 2014-08-25 4:24 PM
I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice.
Making excuses for him?
I see it as the opposite, the only "excuse" he has is that I think he's just being a dink. I know he needs to be WORKED, other than just riding the p*ss out of him until he's ready to keel over, I was wondering if there were any training exercises that would help me.
That being said, I did the exercise you describe last night...loped on contact up the road, then would kiss and squeeze to sprint him faster, then I would bring him back down to either a controlled lope on contact or a trot, and then I would kiss and push him into a sprint. We did this quite a few times and after the 3rd or 4th time, he was sprinting without issue. Definitely wanted to GO! but with his ass down where it belonged! I think this exercise will be very helpful.
As far as working that exercise in the arena, my plan is to NOT set up a pattern, but instead lope him and randomly ask for the sprinting, and then bring him back down, sprint, then back down. I think the randomness of this exercise will help him figure out that it doesn't matter WHERE I'm asking him to sprint in the ring, it's still work. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| stayceem - 2014-08-26 1:32 AM
I guess for me... I try and identify why they are bucking. A friends horse bucks out of excitement and another friends horse bucks out of lazyness.
So I think their training approaches need to be different. The mare who bucks out of excitement needs to be sad down hard and have a little come to jeses moment and then made to WORK and WORK hard! Because shes bucking to run which pushing them through it just encourages it (I think). Wheras, a horse who bucks because their looking to get out of work, will benefit by being pushed through it because thats not what they want. Push through it and dont let them rest for awhile.
I dunno if that makes sense.
This makes sense! The reason I pushed him through it on Sunday was because I felt like if his feet were moving faster forward, it would be more difficult for him to get them off the ground in the upward direction (although I've seen him in the field before without a rider and he can buck pretty good even when going wide open!)
It was my go-to at the time, and he DID stop after a few strides. But at home (see above post) when I try the sprinting exercise in the ring, if he bucks, I'll put him right to work on some circles, rollbacks, etc. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
| SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-26 8:00 AM star1218 - 2014-08-25 4:24 PM I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice. Making excuses for him? I see it as the opposite, the only "excuse" he has is that I think he's just being a dink. I know he needs to be WORKED, other than just riding the p*ss out of him until he's ready to keel over, I was wondering if there were any training exercises that would help me. That being said, I did the exercise you describe last night...loped on contact up the road, then would kiss and squeeze to sprint him faster, then I would bring him back down to either a controlled lope on contact or a trot, and then I would kiss and push him into a sprint. We did this quite a few times and after the 3rd or 4th time, he was sprinting without issue. Definitely wanted to GO! but with his ass down where it belonged! I think this exercise will be very helpful. As far as working that exercise in the arena, my plan is to NOT set up a pattern, but instead lope him and randomly ask for the sprinting, and then bring him back down, sprint, then back down. I think the randomness of this exercise will help him figure out that it doesn't matter WHERE I'm asking him to sprint in the ring, it's still work.
Good! I am glad that helped you! Maybe over a bit of time you can extend the distance you let him sprint out and by then he will know to settle back into an easy gallop / lope as soon as you ask. I am going to do more of this too!
I didn't mean to offend by saying you were making excuses for him - I just meant like you said - If he is being a dink there should be no excuse for that! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| star1218 - 2014-08-26 9:30 AM SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-26 8:00 AM star1218 - 2014-08-25 4:24 PM I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice. Making excuses for him? I see it as the opposite, the only "excuse" he has is that I think he's just being a dink. I know he needs to be WORKED, other than just riding the p*ss out of him until he's ready to keel over, I was wondering if there were any training exercises that would help me. That being said, I did the exercise you describe last night...loped on contact up the road, then would kiss and squeeze to sprint him faster, then I would bring him back down to either a controlled lope on contact or a trot, and then I would kiss and push him into a sprint. We did this quite a few times and after the 3rd or 4th time, he was sprinting without issue. Definitely wanted to GO! but with his ass down where it belonged! I think this exercise will be very helpful. As far as working that exercise in the arena, my plan is to NOT set up a pattern, but instead lope him and randomly ask for the sprinting, and then bring him back down, sprint, then back down. I think the randomness of this exercise will help him figure out that it doesn't matter WHERE I'm asking him to sprint in the ring, it's still work.
I didn't mean to offend by saying you were making excuses for him - I just meant like you said - If he is being a dink there should be no excuse for that!
"I didn't mean to offend by saying you were making excuses for him - I just meant like you said - If he is being a dink there should be no excuse for that!"
^^^AGREED! I wasn't sure what you meant, not offended! I was like "wait, I'm not blaming it on this, that, and the other thing, how am I making excuses for him?!" LOL! If anything, I am saying he has no excuses because we've ruled out everything other than his personality/attitude! HAHA! Honestly it would be easier if it were something physical, because then we could fix it and be on our way! Working the bucks out is much harder when that's just who they want to be!  | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| star1218 - 2014-08-26 9:30 AM
SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-26 8:00 AM star1218 - 2014-08-25 4:24 PM I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice. Making excuses for him? I see it as the opposite, the only "excuse" he has is that I think he's just being a dink. I know he needs to be WORKED, other than just riding the p*ss out of him until he's ready to keel over, I was wondering if there were any training exercises that would help me. That being said, I did the exercise you describe last night...loped on contact up the road, then would kiss and squeeze to sprint him faster, then I would bring him back down to either a controlled lope on contact or a trot, and then I would kiss and push him into a sprint. We did this quite a few times and after the 3rd or 4th time, he was sprinting without issue. Definitely wanted to GO! but with his ass down where it belonged! I think this exercise will be very helpful. As far as working that exercise in the arena, my plan is to NOT set up a pattern, but instead lope him and randomly ask for the sprinting, and then bring him back down, sprint, then back down. I think the randomness of this exercise will help him figure out that it doesn't matter WHERE I'm asking him to sprint in the ring, it's still work.
I didn't mean to offend by saying you were making excuses for him - I just meant like you said - If he is being a dink there should be no excuse for that!
And thank you for your suggestion! It helped validate that the plan I thought up in my head was a good place to start with confirmation from someone else that is what they would do!  | |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | If you've ruled out everything else and as you say you know him like the back of your hand then the next time he pulls that crap you need to over and under his butt so he knows its not some cute little game. There are no exercises to get a horse to quit bucking. Its discipline, wet saddle blankets and you being in control. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 238
| It's not unusual that a well bred, fit horse will show their "excitement" by kicking up their heels. And it can be because they are fresh, in pain, confused, scared, ticked off etc.
As long as pain is not an issue, I've found that a newbie will do it for a couple of simple reasons. 1, common, is that they are figuring out how to use their body and feet and if they got through something that was tricky and they are back on solid footing, they express themselves this way. 2, Same with one that doesn't know how to run. Oh sure, they all know how to run in pasture, but to learn how to run and handle a rider etc. It's a learning experience.
Most will "grow" out of it. Your job is to be sure you set them up for successful turns, don't ask for more than they are ready for, don't ask for speed if they slip or have a rough turn. 2, slowly ask/allow for speed without hauling butt, until they learn how to go from turn to straight and stretch out. 3, they get their butt in trouble for bucking. Rip those suckers around and start spinning, galloping tiny circles, back up hard etc. and then go RIGHT back into the exact job they were doing when you had to take a break. I don't ignore it and keep going, that just teaches them it's ok to do. I also don't quit the job I was asking for, we just take a break for disciplinary action.
But yes, most learn eventually the difference between work on the pattern and goofing off. You just need to be confident and ready for it. If it's predictable and rideable, I don't feel they are a "dirty rotten bucker" that needs to be sent down the road. This coming from one who has sent buckers down the road and who won't tolerate/ride a bucker. | |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | Sounds to me like your horse needs to go back to some ground work. Respect starts on the ground and I think its something that a lot of people overlook and don't take seriously. I know i've been lax on it in the past and its got me into trouble. I don't tolerate any sort of bucking or rearing for that matter under saddle. If they get squirrely (because I didn't do my homework of getting them respectful on the ground) I get off and do ground work to gain their respect back.
I'd start there to see if he does it. If he does then I'd discipline him. Mine don't get to play on the end of the lunge line. It is not a place where they burn off excess energy, it is a place to move their bodys to gain respect and soften the mind. That process, believe it or not, wears them out.
Who knows he may not even do it if you get his respect back on the ground. If he does and you think your ground work is pretty dang good then I'd make sure I have some safety buttons in place, like a one rein stop, that if he does go to humping, I can redirect those feet. Then he would get a licken:) Be safe in the process and good luck.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| We have an excellent one-rein stop installed, that was one of the very first things when I started riding him as a 3 y.o.
I'm going to haul to the arena tonight and work on two things: the sprinting, which I think will be a good exercise, and being THE BOSS if any shenanigans are pulled while sprinting.  I'll report back!
Thanks all! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| So Tuesday night I rode at the arena and just did some loping and sprinting exercises. Did not set up the actual pattern but did use two barrels for some of the work.
Did some controlled collected loping, then along the long sides of the arena, kissed and sprinted to the other end, then brought back to controlled collected lope for a few circles on the short side, until he was relaxed, then sprinted out of the circle down the long end again, collected lope on the short end again, until calm and relaxed, then sprinted back to the other end. Repeated a few times. He was good, caught on that it wasn't about RACING like an idiot to the other end because when he got there, he didn't get to stop working, he was expected to keep going and the collected lope helped to keep him focusing on work and not just running.
Then because I wanted him to work on the sprint out of an actual barrel turn, but don't want him to get hot on an actual pattern, I set up 2 barrels, one on each end of the arena, and I worked on a figure 8 pattern around them. I hustled him around the barrel and up out of the barrel, then loose rein to the next one, hustle around and out, loose rein to the next one. I think someone else mentioned that some green horses on the pattern get a little foot loose when they start really pushing up out of those turns, so I wanted him to work on being able to hustle the turn, but not always getting to race home (where the excitement comes in).
Tomorrow I am going to do the same, but I am going to ask him to hustle between the barrels. I think again, when he has to hustle home, but not really "home" because I'm going to turn another barrel with him, its not so much fun running and kicking up his heels when the work doesn't stop at the other end.
Also, trail rode with a friend last night. Did some cantering out on a trail, nothing fast, not really good footing for that. But then on the way home, after I parted ways with my friend, we have a long gradual hill. I asked for a canter, he picked it up nice and respectful, and he felt good (he's usually the type that you can tell when he has shenanigans up his sleeve within a few strides). Last night he picked it up calm, nice and rhythmic, so I asked for faster, and he did very respectfully, so I gave him the reins and I kissed and squeezed and he WENT! Without any ill manners. He ran and he ran clean. At the top of the hill, I just sat deep, said "easy" and he came right back to a walk and we walked home.
I'm feeling good about our progress.
A lot of the progress has to do with getting my balls back this year   | |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | A lot of the progress has to do with getting my balls back this year
Haha! That my dear is what I was trying to say, but in a nice "politicaly correct" manner!
Good for you! Ride like you mean it and are in charge!
Kids and horses will get away with as much as they are allowed! | |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-28 8:52 AM So Tuesday night I rode at the arena and just did some loping and sprinting exercises. Did not set up the actual pattern but did use two barrels for some of the work. Did some controlled collected loping, then along the long sides of the arena, kissed and sprinted to the other end, then brought back to controlled collected lope for a few circles on the short side, until he was relaxed, then sprinted out of the circle down the long end again, collected lope on the short end again, until calm and relaxed, then sprinted back to the other end. Repeated a few times. He was good, caught on that it wasn't about RACING like an idiot to the other end because when he got there, he didn't get to stop working, he was expected to keep going and the collected lope helped to keep him focusing on work and not just running. Then because I wanted him to work on the sprint out of an actual barrel turn, but don't want him to get hot on an actual pattern, I set up 2 barrels, one on each end of the arena, and I worked on a figure 8 pattern around them. I hustled him around the barrel and up out of the barrel, then loose rein to the next one, hustle around and out, loose rein to the next one. I think someone else mentioned that some green horses on the pattern get a little foot loose when they start really pushing up out of those turns, so I wanted him to work on being able to hustle the turn, but not always getting to race home (where the excitement comes in ). Tomorrow I am going to do the same, but I am going to ask him to hustle between the barrels. I think again, when he has to hustle home, but not really "home" because I'm going to turn another barrel with him, its not so much fun running and kicking up his heels when the work doesn't stop at the other end. Also, trail rode with a friend last night. Did some cantering out on a trail, nothing fast, not really good footing for that. But then on the way home, after I parted ways with my friend, we have a long gradual hill. I asked for a canter, he picked it up nice and respectful, and he felt good (he's usually the type that you can tell when he has shenanigans up his sleeve within a few strides ). Last night he picked it up calm, nice and rhythmic, so I asked for faster, and he did very respectfully, so I gave him the reins and I kissed and squeezed and he WENT! Without any ill manners. He ran and he ran clean. At the top of the hill, I just sat deep, said "easy" and he came right back to a walk and we walked home. I'm feeling good about our progress. A lot of the progress has to do with getting my balls back this year
I haven't read through all the responses but the drill setting up the 2 barrels at each end of the arena sounds like a neat one. Hang in there.
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 Expert
Posts: 2154
Location: USA | When my gelding wanted to start speeding up on his own, he would buck/crow hop on the way home too. I think with all the people and other horses, he was getting excited and a little too cocky. He only did it for a few shows and quit. Good Luck to you. I know it can be frustrating. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| LMS - 2014-08-28 10:00 AM
A lot of the progress has to do with getting my balls back this year
Haha! That my dear is what I was trying to say, but in a nice "politicaly correct" manner!
Good for you! Ride like you mean it and are in charge!
Kids and horses will get away with as much as they are allowed!
Well when he was 4, he did buck me off. That time, I think he got stung by something because we were out in the field and had been working great, and he FREAKED OUT like something got him, bolted and then started bucking, like bronc style. I came off after about 6, and he continued tweaking out.
That set me back in terms of my confidence, hitting the ground isn't nearly as painless as it used to be!
But the bucking stuff he's done since then, are the cocky excited I want to kick up my heels feel good bucks. But I was hesitant to really push "just in case" he bucked me off again. But we've reached a point where he is turning into a harder worker, and I'm at the point where I'm like "Okay, you're 8, let's do this!"
So, cowgirl up!  | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| canrunnr - 2014-08-28 10:35 AM
When my gelding wanted to start speeding up on his own, he would buck/crow hop on the way home too. I think with all the people and other horses, he was getting excited and a little too cocky. He only did it for a few shows and quit. Good Luck to you. I know it can be frustrating.
This gives me hope!  | |
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Veteran
Posts: 216
Location: In between 4 ridges | As I have been adding speed to my 11 yr old gelding (first year competing) he does the same thing! I KNOW he isn't in any pain as well. I know when he is FEELING GOOD to expect him to kick up a little on the way home. I believe that he is just telling me that he is liking what he is doing. He hasn't kicked up at all at a race. However when we are practicing he does.
Good luck. | |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | LMS - 2014-08-28 8:00 AM A lot of the progress has to do with getting my balls back this year
Haha! That my dear is what I was trying to say, but in a nice "politicaly correct" manner!
Good for you! Ride like you mean it and are in charge!
Kids and horses will get away with as much as they are allowed!
Can you send me some. I lost mine somewhere along the way | |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-08-28 10:45 AM
LMS - 2014-08-28 8:00 AM A lot of the progress has to do with getting my balls back this year
Haha! That my dear is what I was trying to say, but in a nice "politicaly correct" manner!
Good for you! Ride like you mean it and are in charge!
Kids and horses will get away with as much as they are allowed!
Can you send me some. I lost mine somewhere along the way
Sounds like a country song... | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| Itsme - 2014-08-28 11:56 AM
wyoming barrel racer - 2014-08-28 10:45 AM
LMS - 2014-08-28 8:00 AM A lot of the progress has to do with getting my balls back this year
Haha! That my dear is what I was trying to say, but in a nice "politicaly correct" manner!
Good for you! Ride like you mean it and are in charge!
Kids and horses will get away with as much as they are allowed!
Can you send me some. I lost mine somewhere along the way
Sounds like a country song...
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The horse that likes to buck on the run home...