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 Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
  
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | I feel like my dreams are over. My favorite horse ever bled for the first time (that I know of) last weekend. He was chasing his buddy very fast up the dirt road behind our house. He always loves running and I never have had to kick or whip; just lift the reins and off he goes as fast and as far as I would let him.
I had a feeling something might be wrong because he had been refusing the gate at races and not clocking like he should. He even reared once which is so unlike him.
I have had him for 8 yrs, since he was 2. Nursed him through a bad cough for a year when he was 4. Then a fractured coffin bone when he was 7. Then I had some other problems delaying his career. I thought he was finally getting somewhere and kept trying with him because he has so much more try than any other horse I have had.
He is now on rest, antibiotics, and banamine. I don't know if I will ever run him again although there is a part of me that wants to know how he would do on Lasix.
SO I guess my questions are :
I understand running a 1D horse on Lasix. Would you run a 2,3,4,5D horse Lasix?
Also has anyone used Flair strips for this?
And what other things besides trails would be good careers for him?
How do you exercise a bleeder who wants to run run run?
Finally does anyone else feel sad and guilty when they find out their horse bleeds...I do not even feel like patterning my other colt now...afraid to take the chance of ever having a horse bleed again. I wish we could all run on Lasix like at the racetrack every time. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | I think you need to take a deep breath and relax. Bleeding, depending on the underlying cause is not always a recurring situation. Even it it is a true case of eiph, it is most likely a matter of managing the symptoms and not career ending.
Yes lasix is often the treatment of choice, but many horses can be maintained with feed thru supplements and a stringent exercise and conditioning program.
If you want to continue running this horse you will just have to find the combination that works for him. |
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Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | SC Wrangler - 2014-09-02 9:16 PM
I think you need to take a deep breath and relax. Bleeding, depending on the underlying cause is not always a recurring situation. Even it it is a true case of eiph, it is most likely a matter of managing the symptoms and not career ending.
Yes lasix is often the treatment of choice, but many horses can be maintained with feed thru supplements and a stringent exercise and conditioning program.
If you want to continue running this horse you will just have to find the combination that works for him.
I am sorry, I probably sound overdramatic. It really shook me up.
What feed thru supplements work for this?
Thank you. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | I know it is upsetting to see your horse bleed, but it can be treated and doesn't have to be career ending. My horse bled for the first time a few months ago and I gt terribly guilty as he did not have the normal signs. I now run him on 3cc of lasix 2.5 hours before I run and also have him on bleed stop by Equidite. I have not seen him bleed since and he is working well. He actually seems to be clocking better as well. I would talk with your vet and see what he says. But I don't see any reason that you would have to retire him from the information you have told us. Good luck take a deep breath and try to relax |
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | He will be fine. And who cares if he's a 1d or a 5d horse. If you are willing to spend the money to treat him, and you enjoy riding/running him, then he doesn't have to be a 1D horse to justify spending money to treat EIPH. Definitely time off and keep doing what you are doing. There are plenty of over the counter daily supplements that can help some horses. My guy is on THE Pulmoneze and no lasix. I would still highly reccomend starting him back on lasix. Talk with your vet in depth about options! |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | My gray horse has bled a couple times but is not - per the vet who scoped him the 2nd time - a true bleeder. I ran him on lasix for about a month after the second bleed, which was almost a year after he bled the first time (Pretty sure he picked up some respiratory crap at rodeo finals that time), but haven't used it on him in two years and he's never bled since. I do run him with Flair strips especially in the summer when we're running in really big outdoor pens or super hot weather.
The other things I do to reduce the risk of him - and my other horses - bleeding are:
1. Keep them in very good shape. I don't run one that's not been being worked regularly. It's just not worth the risk. This is the really important rule - I can bend the others but if I have one that's not in shape, he stays home or at least isn't entered.
2. I give 6-10 cc of Air Power (made by Finish Line) cough syrup before starting my warm up routine.
3. I rub Clearex (Formula 707 product) goo in their nostrils before we start warming up.
4. I avoid dusty warmup areas like the plague.
I can't stress rule # 1 enough. My old bay horse isn't running this weekend because I haven't worked him enough the last 10 days. I'll get him worked the next couple days, then 2 or 3 times next week and feel OK running him next weekend because he's in decent shape already but I've let him have some time off and I want to be sure he's ready for a big outdoor pen before I bust him out again. He hasn't ever bled but he's had some inflammatory airway problems and asthma type symptoms so I'm pretty careful with him. He is a 3D horse at big shows but can occasionally clock in the 1D locally, yet I will retire him if lasix becomes our only option. He's horrible about needles and I just won't give him shots before every run. He's likely to hurt me in the process.
With your horse, I would say talk to your vet and figure out a plan of action.Bleeding can almost always be managed from what I've heard, and I know very few barrel racers who haven't had a bleeder at some point.
When we scoped Chance after he bled in July 2012, the vet was shocked at how clean his lungs were. He said if I hadn't told him Chance bled, he would have thought it didn't happen. There were literally only a few traces of blood when we scoped him about 12 hours later. I gave him antibiotics for several days, let him have about a week off, then started doing slow, longer workouts to build more of an aerobic base before I added some speed work (HILLS....oh how I love hills for sprint work) into his routine. I think I brought him back 2 1/2 weeks after he bled, and we started with 5 cc of lasix, then reduced it to 1 cc before I finally ran without it 5 or 6 weekends later. He bled in late July and about Sept. 20th was our first run w/out lasix. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 805
Location: Montana | First of take a deep breath, I had to several times this summer, my mare bled for the first time beginning of summer, I had her leased out to a hs girl for junior rodeos, first rodeo second day I was there. Scared the crap out of me. We didn't have her scoped but the vet they use runs thoroughbreds and didn't think she was a true bleeder. We did give her Lasix to get through the rest of the season. We went to a race a couple weeks ago, took away all her food and water three plus hours before no Lasix, and she ran one of her fastest times ever. She is on Silver a Linings No Lasix, and at races no food or water for three hours before she runs. |
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Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | Thank you SO MUCH everyone.
I had not even thought of supplements. I read that omega3 fatty acids were good for bleeders too.
I am pretty sure it really is EIPH because it was both nostrils after a very strenuous sprint. I see the vet Thursday morning so maybe he will scope to make sure.
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 Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | Twist has bled twice. Granted, I don't run her anymore but one was on a very hot humid day and the other was in a very dusty arena... again, on a hot day. That was the only two times. I would have him vetted before you get too upset about it. It could be an isolated event. Or it could be he needs meds. Either way, not the end of the world. :-) |
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Member
Posts: 41
| Flair Strips works wonders. A friend has an older gelding that bled the 1st time about a month ago she put him on bleedstop and he bled again she put a flair strip on him this weekend and he did not bleed!!!! I put flair strips on my mare not because she bleeds but because she has really bad allergies and I do not want her on meds and they help her so much! Also if his feed has alot of protein try to limit his protein intake that helps as well(old race horse trainer trick) |
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Regular
Posts: 71
| ninaom - 2014-09-02 8:55 PM
I feel like my dreams are over. My favorite horse ever bled for the first time (that I know of) last weekend. He was chasing his buddy very fast up the dirt road behind our house. He always loves running and I never have had to kick or whip; just lift the reins and off he goes as fast and as far as I would let him.
I had a feeling something might be wrong because he had been refusing the gate at races and not clocking like he should. He even reared once which is so unlike him.
I have had him for 8 yrs, since he was 2. Nursed him through a bad cough for a year when he was 4. Then a fractured coffin bone when he was 7. Then I had some other problems delaying his career. I thought he was finally getting somewhere and kept trying with him because he has so much more try than any other horse I have had.
He is now on rest, antibiotics, and banamine. I don't know if I will ever run him again although there is a part of me that wants to know how he would do on Lasix.
SO I guess my questions are :
I understand running a 1D horse on Lasix. Would you run a 2,3,4,5D horse Lasix?
Also has anyone used Flair strips for this?
And what other things besides trails would be good careers for him?
How do you exercise a bleeder who wants to run run run?
Finally does anyone else feel sad and guilty when they find out their horse bleeds...I do not even feel like patterning my other colt now...afraid to take the chance of ever having a horse bleed again. I wish we could all run on Lasix like at the racetrack every time.
I run a bleeder - you just have to learn how to manage it for the individual horse
I run my horse on lasix and kentucky red IV 4 hours out - I have a BAD bleeder
I give an oral electrolyte 1 hour before I run and air power 1 hour before I run, Works great for me
I have tried supplements/herbs to control the bleeding but nothing worked for me so I stick with KR and lasix
I would definitely scope him before you start him back to make sure his airways are clear - I had to do 3 rounds of antibiotics to totally clear my gelding - he gave no signs that he was still congested so thats why I would definitely scope
I long trot mine for 30 minutes 3 days a week with 5-10 minutes of loping and run on the weekends
I do work barrels - I just dont "run" a complete pattern without lasix, I might work 1-2-3 and then pull up coming out or sprint to barrels and trot or lope around them |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | We can tell from your post that you love your horse and from reading your posts it sounds like you take excellent care of your boy. :) You will be able to run again, he just needs some time off so the capillaries can heal. Probably 60 days of no hard work. The supplement I use and love is THE Pulmon-EZ and with no lasix. It works great for my horses. Everything will be ok  |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I agree you will be able to run again. I use Blood Build by Equine Natural Care. And feed Neprofin AVF . I don't give Lasix anymore. The Blood Build strengthens the cappillaries and helps the lungs heal along with Neprofin AVF |
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Veteran
Posts: 100
| I'm wondering if anyone has tried the Platinum Performance product Hemo-Flo? |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I have but didn't have any luck with it. Have had better luck with the herbs. Have been able to take her off Lasix. |
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Veteran
Posts: 100
| Which herbs did you have luck with? I'm desperate, we are bleeding thru Lasix :-( |
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Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | UPDATE: I took my horse to the vet last Thursday. The vet scoped him and he was clear. Vet said bleeding usually happens this time of year due to dry weather. He told me not to be silly, that he could run again. Just give him a rest. He said if he bleeds again he will give me oral lasix.I really wish he did not have to bleed again to get lasix but I guess thats his protocol.... Anyway my horse is going to get a good long rest and then I will try him againin Spring. I have another younger horse to ride in the meantime. All your posts really mad me feel MUCH more hopeful so thank you! |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Firefighter Wife - 2014-09-07 3:37 PM
Which herbs did you have luck with? I'm desperate, we are bleeding thru Lasix :-(
If you are bleeding through Lasix, then the herbs aren't going to work for you. How much lasix do you give and how far out?
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Veteran
Posts: 278
Location: Whitney, NE | It's good to see you vet had good news! Just food for thought though- I was told by a respiratory specialist that Lasix is ineffective unless given IV. He said IM and oral had been clinically proven to not work. This was just one vet, and I haven't read the research, but I would definitely get more info on Lasix protocols before giving oral Lasix. |
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Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | ninaom - 2014-09-08 5:04 PM UPDATE: I took my horse to the vet last Thursday. The vet scoped him and he was clear. Vet said bleeding usually happens this time of year due to dry weather. He told me not to be silly, that he could run again. Just give him a rest. He said if he bleeds again he will give me oral lasix.I really wish he did not have to bleed again to get lasix but I guess thats his protocol.... Anyway my horse is going to get a good long rest and then I will try him againin Spring. I have another younger horse to ride in the meantime. All your posts really mad me feel MUCH more hopeful so thank you!
Just ride him silly! He has had so much time being laid off, he would probably appreicate the riding through fall/winter. Horses are a lot tougher than we give them credit for. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | whatadoll - 2014-09-09 10:01 AM
It's good to see you vet had good news! Just food for thought though- I was told by a respiratory specialist that Lasix is ineffective unless given IV. He said IM and oral had been clinically proven to not work. This was just one vet, and I haven't read the research, but I would definitely get more info on Lasix protocols before giving oral Lasix.
I've never heard it's ineffective by mouth or IM, I give mine by IM every time and it works just as fast and well as IV. IM and oral usually have to be given further out then IV, which works faster but lowers blood pressure more as well.
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Sad. Horse bled for first time. a lot.(Long)