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Regular
Posts: 61
| As a barrel racer, do you enter rodeos/jackpots that you specifically know what the payout percentage will be? Is it a 90% payout of entry fees, 10% goes to the producer etc. I personally when entering rodeos can tell you what first will pay (within reason and not including vet outs, but a solid ball park) prior to even leaving home. How many other people enter with this thought in mind. I have NO problem paying the producer for their time and for the venue for the opportunity to barrel race however doing the math plays into my analytical personality and if I don't know before hand I have a tendancy to go back and figure it out after its been posted. Do you look for deductions or percentage pay outs before even going to a jackpot? What is the norm in you area? | |
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Location: Somewhere up North | Here in the midwest open show producers typically pay 70% of the entry fee and keep 30% for putting on the show. It is pretty easy to figure the payout for NBHA/IBRA in a a 4D format, which is typically 40% to the 1D, 30% to the 2D, 20% to the 3d and 10% to the 4D. To figure the total purse, you take 70% of the entry fee (minus association fees) and then multiply that by the total number in the class. For example, if there are 100 in the class and the entry fee is $20, the total purse would be $1400. The 1D would pay $560 to the 1D placers, $420 to the 2D, $280 to the 3D and $140 to the 4D placings.
What differs from show-to-show is the percentages producers pay to each placing within each division. However, with a little research, you can generally figure out the percentages paid to each placing within each division and the rest is easy to calculate.
I've come out of shows figuring these percentages and have made slightly more and less than what I should have made for my placing within a particluar division so it is good to know the math. And yes, I do take this into consideration before attending a show. | |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
 
Location: Tulsa, Ok | Yes the math is a definite factor in the events that I enter. When the percentage held out plus the "processing fees" become excessive I tend to elect out. | |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Yep.... I always look at percentage paid out vs held. 75% and up should be paid out. JMHO. When you do the math on guaranteed races, you'll be amazed at what's being held out. I also prefer races with the most money being paid out in the 1D - I don't give a rip if 4D-5D entries paid the same money, at the end of the day, the horse that ran the fastest time deserves the biggest check. Not a fan of equal payout at all!! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | I definitely look at payout percentage and office fees. I believe that producers need to make money for their time and effort but 20-25 percent plus exhibitions and office fees is plenty. Every horse has only so many runs in them. It costs fuel and my time as well to enter. If I feel a show costs too much I go somewhere else. ... | |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | It is part of what I look at, but pretty darn low on the deciding factor list. I don't mind a 70% percent payout, which is about the lowest on most around here. If something is 70 vs 75 vs 80, other factors are going to play more in my decision. There was a 100% paid back race with really nice prizes (trailer, saddles, etc) an hour down the road that I didn't enter because we had to run 2x in the same day and I was running a bleeder at the time.
Higher on the list would be arenas I don't run well in, producers who don't draw entries (this can really lower the payout), ground conditions, schedule conflicts, how much money is in by bank account at the time, blah, blah, blah | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| You have to remember that producers have to pay for the arena use, if it's indoor that could be any where between 650-1200 and outdoor could be 250-500. plus equipment, tractor driver, helpers for barrels, gate, entries, etc. Yes, I agree that at least 75% should be paid back and ideally I like to see 80 or above. We don't charge an office fee but we do charge a facility fee to help us cover the cost of the arena, etc. I think any fee above $10(for local jackpots) is outrageous though. I choose where to go based off money added, then I look to see what the payout is and entry amount is.
Edited by FlyingJT 2014-09-11 4:55 PM
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | 70% can be a decent payback taking into consideration added money and the reasonable office or processing fees. The whole equation changes if the "fees" are not nominal.
A $50 entry with a true 70% payout puts $35 of your fees in the pot.
A $50 entry, 70% payback plus a $5 processing is actually a 64% payout.
A $50 entry, 70% payback plus a $10 processing is a 59% payback.
Do the math based on the total cost vs the dollars actually in the pot. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 268
| 80% seems to be pretty standard, but do see some 70% as well. If there were two barrel races equal in all other aspects - I would obviously choose the higher paying race. However, like Linds said, there are other factors involved - footing, arena size/depth (what your horse likes or clocks best in), awards, etc. - when choosing which race to enter. | |
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Location: In my own little world | Yes I definitely take it into consideration and I always have a rough estimate figured of what it will pay before the payout is done. It has always amazed me the number of people who just take it all for granted and don't have a clue about any of it. For me I think a lot of that comes from producing barrel races and team ropings. Over the years we have gone to team ropings where it ended up the office crew had no idea about doing the payouts etc so ropers were always asking me about what it should pay so they knew if the payout was even half way close.
Also I don't mind paying arena fees and office fees (within reason) because I know exactly the costs that they are having to pay if office help, tractor rentals, driver, barrel helpers, facility rent, and all the other expenses that go into it.
When I am willing to not worry about what it pays, etc is if I am hauling a young horse seasoning. Then it really doesn't matter to me because it is part of the process, but I also won't haul that young one a million miles from home to a jackpot either. I'll stay within a couple hours from home until they are far enough along that I think they have a chance of winning money. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 825
| At all of our jackpots and local shows the payout percentage and any additional fees are listed on the show flyer. Its expected that whatever is listed on the flyer is what will be charged. So you know what you're being charged before you leave home.
Most shows pay back 80%, however it isn't odd to have a show payback 70% IF it has over $1000 (this is an NBHA rule but most associations and producers follow that method). In addition to that, usually there is only a $3 or $4 NBHA fee that comes out, no timer fees, office fees, etc until you get to a multiple day show.
I don't calculate any of that in my head beforehand, but if I see results with payouts that don't add up, I'll definitely calculate the payout. | |
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Doing the math- Payouts and deductions