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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 413
| if you have a horse that is sore, say in the hocks or stifles; and you choose to not inject-- what do you do to get them sound? |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
   
Location: Texas | I've always just injected :/. bump |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| Time off, then rehabbing slowly back. I've had to lay off Xena three or four times now due to her stifle(s). Injected her in June this year and after only one run in late June she was back to bucking around the pattern in her first run at the Colonials, even after a summer of working back to long trotting and backing up hills, and no running barrels. I dosed her with bute at the Colonials after her sr bucking run and she went in Friday in the open and ran mid-2D, smooth and easy. I feel bad that I had to bute her, but if a couple grams of bute was all it took for her to feel fine then it probably isn't a serious issue going on in the joint. I will not be injecting again since it didn't work. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| You could do routine acupuncture, my vet does acupuncture and feels if that were done every couple of weeks you might not have to inject but if they have reached the point that they need injections than they need injections. I don't think the preventative measures such as adequan etc will make them sound, maybe with long term time off and a frequent injection schedule but you would probably spend more $$ than injections cost. Why don't you want to inject? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 413
| I do, normally. But I know there are people that won't. and I just didn't know if I was missing something.
I understand the risks. But, if I can avoid it, I would like to. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Thecowgirlinme - 2014-09-11 8:26 PM I do, normally. But I know there are people that won't. and I just didn't know if I was missing something. I understand the risks. But, if I can avoid it, I would like to.
I think if there was a viable alternative that gave your horse the same relief the majority of us who inject would not be injecting. My vet injects with legend and tries to stay away from the steroids that can cause issues. I don't want my horses hurting and won't run them if I think they are. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I just weigh it out- what's worse, the damaging inflammatory process thats occurring in the joint or the risk of injection? You can control many factors to reduce injection risk such as scrub technique, choice of drugs, rest after injections.. |
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 Heeler Hoarder
Posts: 2067
| I would just inject no way am I taking a chance on them being sore. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I will inject anything except hocks, I go straight to surgical laser fusion, then I don't have to worry about the hocks again.
I haven't found and scientific research published in a scholarly journal for any alternative to injection, so there isn't an alternative.
We ask these horses to haul countless miles (this has been proven to be a contributing factor in developing arthritis) and we are asking the horses to use their body in unnatural ways. These horses give us a 100% until they are sore.
The least we can do is to treat the soreness, buting a horse is not treating, it is masking the pain, when the bute wears off the pain returns. Injection depending on what you inject ie Trimisclione has been proven to increase cartilage production in damaged joints versus depo, and betamethasone that have been shown to deteriorate the cartilage. HA has been proven to stimulate the body to produce HA, and also reduces inflammation.
Honestly if the horse is sore and you are unwilling to treat the root cause of the soreness, retire the horse, if you continue to run a sore horse it is animal cruelty |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 422
Location: Fort Bragg North Carolina | I will prolly get some dislikes but I ride them the most ill do is previcox. I have mixed feelings on injections I think too many horses get injected because the vet "says so". |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING | Dmso |
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Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
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I have considered putting Xena on Previcox. I watched what it did for my very old and lame broodie (untreatable arthritis from hip to pasturn in one rear) - it was like she was a young filly again.
I've 'treated' Xena multiple times over the years. 3 different vets have worked on her and tried to find something wrong. 'Slight inflammation' in her left stifle is the only thing we've ever found. She doesn't take a lame step even during the most thorough examination, and ultrasounds have come up nil also.
If you can't find something wrong to fix then it makes treatment very difficult. And if I choose to 'treat' only during shows using bute, instead of treating full time using Previcox, then there really is no difference. Either one reduces the risks involved with injecting. As for retiring her - I'd say most peeps would think she is semi-retired. I've gone to a whopping 5 shows so far this year with state finals being Xena's next and last show this year. Out of those 5 shows she's had two runs where she's been very rough, and all the rest have been in the money 2D (or JUST missing 2D money at the Colonial), with 3 of the shows being before injections, and only 1 show with bute. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| charlenenh - 2014-09-12 5:08 AM I will prolly get some dislikes but I ride them the most ill do is previcox. I have mixed feelings on injections I think too many horses get injected because the vet "says so".
Definitely something to think about, I have experienced vets who I thought were " injection happy." The vet I have used for the last 5 or 6 years uses acupuncture and chiro , if that doesn't work , he will inject. I have horses that I always run on previcox and they still need injections, previcox is not always enough. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | charlenenh - 2014-09-12 5:08 AM
I will prolly get some dislikes but I ride them the most ill do is previcox. I have mixed feelings on injections I think too many horses get injected because the vet "says so".
I suggest you search for a vet that suits your morals and expectations. The vet I use for most lameness work is not an injection jockey. They ARE OUT THERE, and they will never have my business. It takes research and trial and error to find the right vet that works for you. They come in all shapes and sizes. |
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 Blond Bombshell..
Posts: 6628
Location: Hill Country of TEXAS!! | I think it's cruel to use a horse that needs injections and not inject. Most remedies don't help the joint as a injection would. Injections done right help the joint. Previcox is great accompanied by injections. |
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| I will never inject the same spot more than 3xs in a horses life. I'm not against injections all together but the ones who do it every 6 months IMO is doing more harm then good it weakens them in the long run. They're going to lay down to roll and get up an snap their leg one day. (It's the truth, ask around you'll find people it's happened to.) That's why preventative measure are so important. Even if they don't need it, get a good supplement. I also like ice after hard workouts. (Could also try a Thera plate or adequin) You'd be surprised how many horses need something and the owners don't even look into it.
Edited by SwishMiss 2014-09-12 8:10 AM
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | SwishMiss - 2014-09-12 8:06 AM I will never inject the same spot more than 3xs in a horses life. I'm not against injections all together but the ones who do it every 6 months IMO is doing more harm then good it weakens them in the long run. They're going to lay down to roll and get up an snap their leg one day. (It's the truth, ask around you'll find people it's happened to.) That's why preventative measure are so important. Even if they don't need it, get a good supplement. I also like ice after hard workouts. (Could also try a Thera plate or adequin) You'd be surprised how many horses need something and the owners don't even look into it.
After being around performance horses my entire life....racehorses, jumpers, barrel horses and rope horses.... I have NEVER heard this before. We've injected several many more times that 3 and never had an issue.
I do agree preventative measures are important....but they aren't going to randomly break a leg because you've injected a joint more than 3 times. What are they injecting with when you've seen this happen?
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | SwishMiss - 2014-09-12 8:06 AM I will never inject the same spot more than 3xs in a horses life. I'm not against injections all together but the ones who do it every 6 months IMO is doing more harm then good it weakens them in the long run. They're going to lay down to roll and get up an snap their leg one day. (It's the truth, ask around you'll find people it's happened to.) That's why preventative measure are so important. Even if they don't need it, get a good supplement. I also like ice after hard workouts. (Could also try a Thera plate or adequin) You'd be surprised how many horses need something and the owners don't even look into it.
This is not true.
It may have happened, but I HIGHLY doubt the horse broke it's leg from being injected. I'd like to see some research on this claim. We all know horses that have been kept sound with injections for YEARS. I have never heard of this.
Horses are uniquely adept at finding ways to self destruct- injections or no injections. |
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| barrelracr131 - 2014-09-12 7:28 AM
SwishMiss - 2014-09-12 8:06 AM I will never inject the same spot more than 3xs in a horses life. I'm not against injections all together but the ones who do it every 6 months IMO is doing more harm then good it weakens them in the long run. They're going to lay down to roll and get up an snap their leg one day. (It's the truth, ask around you'll find people it's happened to.) That's why preventative measure are so important. Even if they don't need it, get a good supplement. I also like ice after hard workouts. (Could also try a Thera plate or adequin) You'd be surprised how many horses need something and the owners don't even look into it.
This is not true.
It may have happened, but I HIGHLY doubt the horse broke it's leg from being injected. I'd like to see some research on this claim. We all know horses that have been kept sound with injections for YEARS. I have never heard of this.
Horses are uniquely adept at finding ways to self destruct- injections or no injections.
I've done extensive research and reading on different types of injections and some of it depends on WHAT you inject with. That's my opinion and WHAT I BELEIVE in, yall have at. But yes a vet did say the horses leg snapped partly/ from injections weakening the area. I'm confused how you could think jamming a needle in there so many times would NOT weaken it? I'm squeamish anyway...I cant watch that. It's a little space to be cramming needles so often. That's just how I feel ,I know how many there are out there and lots never have any problems, but my horses will not be on that program.
Edited by SwishMiss 2014-09-12 8:41 AM
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| MS2011 - 2014-09-12 7:25 AM
SwishMiss - 2014-09-12 8:06 AM I will never inject the same spot more than 3xs in a horses life. I'm not against injections all together but the ones who do it every 6 months IMO is doing more harm then good it weakens them in the long run. They're going to lay down to roll and get up an snap their leg one day. (It's the truth, ask around you'll find people it's happened to.) That's why preventative measure are so important. Even if they don't need it, get a good supplement. I also like ice after hard workouts. (Could also try a Thera plate or adequin) You'd be surprised how many horses need something and the owners don't even look into it.
After being around performance horses my entire life....racehorses, jumpers, barrel horses and rope horses.... I have NEVER heard this before. We've injected several many more times that 3 and never had an issue.
I do agree preventative measures are important....but they aren't going to randomly break a leg because you've injected a joint more than 3 times. What are they injecting with when you've seen this happen?
I read hydraulic acid, BUT the horse this happened to was being injected with high quality injections. ETA - not trying to stir the pot!!
Edited by SwishMiss 2014-09-12 8:53 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 615
Location: Wyoming | SwishMiss - 2014-09-12 8:06 AM
I will never inject the same spot more than 3xs in a horses life. I'm not against injections all together but the ones who do it every 6 months IMO is doing more harm then good it weakens them in the long run. They're going to lay down to roll and get up an snap their leg one day. (It's the truth, ask around you'll find people it's happened to.) That's why preventative measure are so important. Even if they don't need it, get a good supplement. I also like ice after hard workouts. (Could also try a Thera plate or adequin) You'd be surprised how many horses need something and the owners don't even look into it.
If that's true then my horse should've broken her legs ages ago. She has an OCD lesion in her stifle and has been injected every 6 months for the past 6 years. Was on great joint supplement. She has over $25,000 verifiable 1D earnings. I have since sold her and she is still winning! I think it's cruel to run one that's sore when injections will help
Edited by perfectturns 2014-09-12 1:23 PM
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | i used to be on the never gonna inject bandwagon......thank god my friend pushed me off.........
i will get anything injected when its needed now
m |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| SwishMiss - 2014-09-12 8:06 AM
I will never inject the same spot more than 3xs in a horses life. I'm not against injections all together but the ones who do it every 6 months IMO is doing more harm then good it weakens them in the long run. They're going to lay down to roll and get up an snap their leg one day. (It's the truth, ask around you'll find people it's happened to.) That's why preventative measure are so important. Even if they don't need it, get a good supplement. I also like ice after hard workouts. (Could also try a Thera plate or adequin) You'd be surprised how many horses need something and the owners don't even look into it.
This is false information, there is no scientific evidence to back up your allegations.
What program are your horses on, do you ignore the subtitle signs and continue to run them till they start blowing barrels, refusing to go into the arena.
Long term bute and previcoxx can cause ulcers (previcoxx can still but not as fast as bute) both can suppress the bone marrow production, both can suppress the immune system. Both drugs affect the liver and kidney. These drugs can have long term negative effects when used for a prolonged time.
The needle used to inject joints is generally a 25 gage, there is very little scar tissue that develops, yes there is risk as with anything we do to our horses. But the pain the horse experiences without the injections to me far outweighs the risk.
If you float your horses teeth, there is a 1 in 1000 change they will have an adverse reaction to the anesthetic, is this going to stop you from having the teeth floated?
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-09-12 10:46 AM
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | SwishMiss - 2014-09-12 8:43 AM MS2011 - 2014-09-12 7:25 AM SwishMiss - 2014-09-12 8:06 AM I will never inject the same spot more than 3xs in a horses life. I'm not against injections all together but the ones who do it every 6 months IMO is doing more harm then good it weakens them in the long run. They're going to lay down to roll and get up an snap their leg one day. (It's the truth, ask around you'll find people it's happened to.) That's why preventative measure are so important. Even if they don't need it, get a good supplement. I also like ice after hard workouts. (Could also try a Thera plate or adequin) You'd be surprised how many horses need something and the owners don't even look into it. After being around performance horses my entire life....racehorses, jumpers, barrel horses and rope horses.... I have NEVER heard this before. We've injected several many more times that 3 and never had an issue.
I do agree preventative measures are important....but they aren't going to randomly break a leg because you've injected a joint more than 3 times. What are they injecting with when you've seen this happen?
I read hydraulic acid, BUT the horse this happened to was being injected with high quality injections. ETA - not trying to stir the pot!!
Hyluronic....not hydraulic.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 413
| I always inject too. can't stand a sore horse. but don't want to "over do" it either. what types of things prolong it? has anyone tried GLC5000? I do adequan and pent-aussie as well. |
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choosing not to inject