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Edited by 3ToBurn 2015-03-24 10:53 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I think for the majority of barrel racers, yes... Barrel racers in general are not as adamant about dams being proven as racing breeders are.
But on the flip side, barrel racers in general will not pay as much for a prospect as racing people do either. There's just more money in racing.
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future. | |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
 
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
You stole that mare. | |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:48 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
I stole a vet bill and another mouth to feed is all I stole!! lol | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:50 PM LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:48 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
Soooooooo, you don't want her no mo??? | |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:54 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:50 PM LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:48 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
Haha I didn't say that! | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:57 PM LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:54 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:50 PM LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:48 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
That's what I thought, Whiteman. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | A nice dam side of the pedigree is definitely a good thing, but I will always be a firm believer that some mares are put on this earth to produce winners not necessarily be winners themselves. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| To me it depends on the money im dropping, the age of the prospect and what I expect out of the prospect. If I want a almost guaranteed 1D/rodeo horse I wouldnt settle for anything less than the dam and stud being 1D/multi-rodeo winners. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM
I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
I'd have taken a chance on her too! WOW!!!
I think Mare power is underestimated in the barrel industry. Personally, I bought a filly whose momma is proven in the roping pen (PRCA money earner) and is out of one hell of a cutting stud (think LOTS of money won and his name reminds you of human gastroenteritis fixes). I didn't buy the filly because of the names on her paper, I bought her for her mind after working/ training on her for a couple months.
Also, like someone else pointed out, the racing industry will pay a heck of alot more than the barrel industry. Cutters and Reiners depend more on the region in my opinion when it comes to what the Dam has accomplished.
EDA - my crappy spelling. sorry.
Edited by lindseylou2290 2014-09-16 4:48 PM
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | It shouldn't be, but it is. Kuhlmann trained me well on how to REALLY look at a pedigree. If you just look at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation sires I'm sure it all looks dandy.
So many people look at a mare and think she's awesome because she's a daughter of such and such stallion, or even a granddaughter of such and such stallion. But you then need to ask- WHO IS HER MOTHER? What did her dam do? What did her dam produce? What did her 2nd dam on the maternal side produce and do?
I DO think people will pay more for horses who have strong maternal lines- and when I say maternal lines, I don't mean the paternal names on the bottom side of the papers.
When it comes to mares on the track, I look at the mare herself, her dam, and her second dam. I need to have something good within those generations…
Unfortunately i will have a horse who won't get to prove herself in the arena because of an old injury. However, she has a pedigree packed with strong mares who consistently produced winning horses and were winners themselves. Thankfully, she has a solid female family to fall back on.
Edited by casualdust07 2014-09-16 5:14 PM
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | casualdust07 - 2014-09-16 4:12 PM It shouldn't be, but it is. Kuhlmann trained me well on how to REALLY look at a pedigree. If you just look at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation sires I'm sure it all looks dandy. So many people look at a mare and think she's awesome because she's a daughter of such and such stallion, or even a granddaughter of such and such stallion. But you then need to ask- WHO IS HER MOTHER? What did her dam do? What did her dam produce? What did her 2nd dam on the maternal side produce and do? I DO think people will pay more for horses who have strong maternal lines- and when I say maternal lines, I don't mean the paternal names on the bottom side of the papers. When it comes to mares on the track, I look at the mare herself, her dam, and her second dam. I need to have something good within those generations… Unfortunately i will have a horse who won't get to prove herself in the arena because of an old injury. However, she has a pedigree packed with strong mares who consistently produced winning horses and were winners themselves. Thankfully, she has a solid female family to fall back on.
This is very true, but most barrel horse breeders can't afford to buy a $25K + broodmare that won't have a foal make a name for itself for another 4-5 yrs. Also, I know there are some, but most barrel breeders aren't doing multiple embryo on their broodmares. Race people are huge on this. They have a AAA, $100,000 winner with a black type female family bred to 4 different stallions and maybe 2-3 of them hit the track winning in 2 yrs. They get much faster return on their investment and a mare like that is a HELL of an investment.
We have always done the best with what we can buy. I have a Sixarun mare that had just a couple starts, most of her offspring seem to have ended up in Mexico. Her dam produced a stakes winner of $100K. She has been a really nice broodmare for us. We actually got a heck of a deal on her because she was due in May.
If I were to buy a barrel prospect, I could actually care less how fast the dam ran. Too many NFR and Futurity winners without race records for me to care about a race track record. | |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| I am a bit off in that I will always look at a mare's side of a pedigree before the sire. I think a strong maternal line puts a strong stamp on the resulting foal more often than not. | |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-09-16 6:08 PM
casualdust07 - 2014-09-16 4:12 PM It shouldn't be, but it is. Kuhlmann trained me well on how to REALLY look at a pedigree. If you just look at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation sires I'm sure it all looks dandy. So many people look at a mare and think she's awesome because she's a daughter of such and such stallion, or even a granddaughter of such and such stallion. But you then need to ask- WHO IS HER MOTHER? What did her dam do? What did her dam produce? What did her 2nd dam on the maternal side produce and do? I DO think people will pay more for horses who have strong maternal lines- and when I say maternal lines, I don't mean the paternal names on the bottom side of the papers. When it comes to mares on the track, I look at the mare herself, her dam, and her second dam. I need to have something good within those generations… Unfortunately i will have a horse who won't get to prove herself in the arena because of an old injury. However, she has a pedigree packed with strong mares who consistently produced winning horses and were winners themselves. Thankfully, she has a solid female family to fall back on.
This is very true, but most barrel horse breeders can't afford to buy a $25K + broodmare that won't have a foal make a name for itself for another 4-5 yrs. Also, I know there are some, but most barrel breeders aren't doing multiple embryo on their broodmares. Race people are huge on this. They have a AAA, $100,000 winner with a black type female family bred to 4 different stallions and maybe 2-3 of them hit the track winning in 2 yrs. They get much faster return on their investment and a mare like that is a HELL of an investment.
We have always done the best with what we can buy. I have a Sixarun mare that had just a couple starts, most of her offspring seem to have ended up in Mexico. Her dam produced a stakes winner of $100K. She has been a really nice broodmare for us. We actually got a heck of a deal on her because she was due in May.
If I were to buy a barrel prospect, I could actually care less how fast the dam ran. Too many NFR and Futurity winners without race records for me to care about a race track record.
You don't have to spend $25,000 on a broodmare with a solid female family. You just have to know what to look for. The race horse broodmares who sell 30,000-50,000 yearlings are way out of my budget. But I've managed to find mares who have pretty solid black type on their pedigrees and I never paid over $5000 for any of them. Part of it is luck…
I got a Stoli daughter out of Shiney Miles, who's the dam to the stallion Rare News. I bought her skinny and open before Stolis were hot for $3500. Shiney Miles is a stakes winner, three of my mare's half siblings won over 40,000 on the track, the fourth won $22,000, the fifth won over $70,000.
I got a Shazoom daughter out of Dashin La Jolla- dam of Dashin Czar- for an even trade worth $4500. Her dam won over $54,000 on the track and was exported to Brazil. Mine was AA and a race winner, but wasn't a big money winner.
I got a Strawflyin Buds mare who's second dam is Bunnys Fortune for $3500. The biggest plus for her was that she's a finished barrel horse.
I like to see a race record, but it's not necessary. I think of it like this- between the mare herself, the first dam, and the second dam, two of the three have to have done something. I understand some mare's don't get to prove themselves as a performer,or maybe their dam never got to.. My Strawflyin Buds mare's dam wasn't stellar on the track at all. And like you said- they don't have to be stellar race horses to make stellar barrel horses. That's how I got most of my mares. But a solid family that proves good genes are passed down sure helps. | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | casualdust07 - 2014-09-16 6:05 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-09-16 6:08 PM casualdust07 - 2014-09-16 4:12 PM It shouldn't be, but it is. Kuhlmann trained me well on how to REALLY look at a pedigree. If you just look at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation sires I'm sure it all looks dandy. So many people look at a mare and think she's awesome because she's a daughter of such and such stallion, or even a granddaughter of such and such stallion. But you then need to ask- WHO IS HER MOTHER? What did her dam do? What did her dam produce? What did her 2nd dam on the maternal side produce and do? I DO think people will pay more for horses who have strong maternal lines- and when I say maternal lines, I don't mean the paternal names on the bottom side of the papers. When it comes to mares on the track, I look at the mare herself, her dam, and her second dam. I need to have something good within those generations… Unfortunately i will have a horse who won't get to prove herself in the arena because of an old injury. However, she has a pedigree packed with strong mares who consistently produced winning horses and were winners themselves. Thankfully, she has a solid female family to fall back on. This is very true, but most barrel horse breeders can't afford to buy a $25K + broodmare that won't have a foal make a name for itself for another 4-5 yrs. Also, I know there are some, but most barrel breeders aren't doing multiple embryo on their broodmares. Race people are huge on this. They have a AAA, $100,000 winner with a black type female family bred to 4 different stallions and maybe 2-3 of them hit the track winning in 2 yrs. They get much faster return on their investment and a mare like that is a HELL of an investment.
We have always done the best with what we can buy. I have a Sixarun mare that had just a couple starts, most of her offspring seem to have ended up in Mexico. Her dam produced a stakes winner of $100K. She has been a really nice broodmare for us. We actually got a heck of a deal on her because she was due in May.
If I were to buy a barrel prospect, I could actually care less how fast the dam ran. Too many NFR and Futurity winners without race records for me to care about a race track record. You don't have to spend $25,000 on a broodmare with a solid female family. You just have to know what to look for. The race horse broodmares who sell 30,000-50,000 yearlings are way out of my budget. But I've managed to find mares who have pretty solid black type on their pedigrees and I never paid over $5000 for any of them. Part of it is luck… I got a Stoli daughter out of Shiney Miles, who's the dam to the stallion Rare News. I bought her skinny and open before Stolis were hot for $3500. Shiney Miles is a stakes winner, three of my mare's half siblings won over 40,000 on the track, the fourth won $22,000, the fifth won over $70,000. I got a Shazoom daughter out of Dashin La Jolla- dam of Dashin Czar- for an even trade worth $4500. Her dam won over $54,000 on the track and was exported to Brazil. Mine was AA and a race winner, but wasn't a big money winner. I got a Strawflyin Buds mare who's second dam is Bunnys Fortune for $3500. The biggest plus for her was that she's a finished barrel horse. I like to see a race record, but it's not necessary. I think of it like this- between the mare herself, the first dam, and the second dam, two of the three have to have done something. I understand some mare's don't get to prove themselves as a performer,or maybe their dam never got to.. My Strawflyin Buds mare's dam wasn't stellar on the track at all. And like you said- they don't have to be stellar race horses to make stellar barrel horses. That's how I got most of my mares. But a solid family that proves good genes are passed down sure helps.
I know what you mean, but the nicest female families out there, including the mare being proven herself (and not having 1 foot already in the grave) are going to cost a lot more than $3500. Most of the really nice barrel mares, proven producers, would not even get a 2nd look from the top race breeders. Good too, leave those nice mares more affordable for us
I have shopped for good deals on all our mares. My Ivory James was a steal compared to what the IJ are bringing. Her 2nd dam is Lil Bit Rusty. We paid 1/2 what she brought at the Heritage as a yearling because she had a minor track injury and they didn't want to wait for her to heal.
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Yep!! That is how I do it too. But we also have different jobs and expectations out of our barrel horses, I don't think we need quite what the race horse people need.. which is why I'm OK with a really well bred race track flunky :P.
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| I prefer a proven barrel horse for a dam, that's just my conclusion. (btw I'm getting hocks injected next week, yawl were right sore hocks is no good.) 
Edited by SwishMiss 2014-09-16 8:15 PM
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 MEOW!
Posts: 4477
Location: High heels in the air... | I'll play...I bred one of my cutting mares to a top barrel stallion...She was too hot in the cutting pen and will outrun everything on the place...big butt, baby doll head, well bred for a cutting horse and physically correct..She is the first one everyone asks about since she is so pretty...She also reproduces the stallion, not herself..her colts all take after their daddies..I want a low hocked, balanced individual that can hold up to anything we want it to do...
My mares are pretty, well bred, low to the ground...if my colts don't cut it running barrels, we rope on them and can sell them to working cowhorse people...
So, I look more at the individual as well as bloodlines... | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 365
| I want a colt from 2 proven parents preferably. Take my gelding for example. His mom was a 1D barrel and pole horse, daughter of Dinkys Red Man. His sire is a son of Sticks An Stones, ran decent on the track not a 1D barrel horse. My gelding looks exactly like his dam, and I mention her before the stud.
Half your horse still comes from the mare. | |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM
I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
Holy beans - she is bred out the hiney!! | |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | So I counted all our mares:
Jet of Honor mare- proven 1D barrel horse, THSRA state qualifier with several girls over her long career, AQHYA world show qualifier, 2013 top 10 AQHYA high point barrel horse:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/doc+o+flits+honor
Reckless Dash mare- WPRA permit filler, PRCA rodeo winner, ANHA 1D shootout qualifier and 2D shootout qualifier, open rodeo money winner, 1D at WBR and Jurassic Classic. Half sister to Levin Lucille and Lucy Lucille
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/reckless+lucy
Strawflyin Buds mare- 1D mare, has won 4 barrel races since I got her in Feb 28, ANHA 2D shootout qualifier. Second dam is Bunnys Fortune
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ms+rare+buds
Rare Bar mare- LTE exceed $25,000 NBHA TX State 1D champion, multiple 1D wins, ANHA 2D shootout qualifier in 2014
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ole+rare+hope
Stoli mare- SI 79. Dam is stakes winner Shiney Miles, half sister to Rare News. Bought to be a broodmare:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bright+miles
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| casualdust07 - 2014-09-18 8:38 AM So I counted all our mares:
Jet of Honor mare- proven 1D barrel horse, THSRA state qualifier with several girls over her long career, AQHYA world show qualifier, 2013 top 10 AQHYA high point barrel horse:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/doc+o+flits+honor
Reckless Dash mare- WPRA permit filler, PRCA rodeo winner, ANHA 1D shootout qualifier and 2D shootout qualifier, open rodeo money winner, 1D at WBR and Jurassic Classic. Half sister to Levin Lucille and Lucy Lucille
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/reckless+lucy
Strawflyin Buds mare- 1D mare, has won 4 barrel races since I got her in Feb 28, ANHA 2D shootout qualifier. Second dam is Bunnys Fortune
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ms+rare+buds
Rare Bar mare- LTE exceed $25,000 NBHA TX State 1D champion, multiple 1D wins, ANHA 2D shootout qualifier in 2014
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ole+rare+hope
Stoli mare- SI 79. Dam is stakes winner Shiney Miles, half sister to Rare News. Bought to be a broodmare:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bright+miles
That is a bunch of nice mares! | |
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | Pedigree, Conformation, Produce Record & Performance Record. Not necessarily in that order.
We have quite a few mares in our program ... lots of old mares and people always question why we keep and or buy such old mamas - but IMO if they aren't old they either didn't do anything themselves or dang sure never produced anything. If you have a younger mare -- by the time she DOES produce some colts, she'll be old too.
Not all of our mares won themselves (track/barrel racing) but the ones that didn't have the opportunity themselves have proven to be pretty nice producers.
They are all bred very nice though - own daughters of somebody - Shawne Bug, Easily Smashed, Jet of Honor, Dash For Perks, Bully Bullion, Freedom Flyer, Dashing Cleat, Dean Miracle, On The Money Red, Reckless Dash, Rime, Rare Jet Extremes, A Classic Dash, Bullys On Fire, Beduinos Charger, Willie Wicked, La Jollas Gold, Captain Biankus
O/o Daughters of Shawne Bug, Special Effort, Easily Smashed, Rocket Wrangler, Go For Bugs, Stocks N Bonds, Oklahoma Fuel, etc. | |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Whiteboy - 2014-09-18 9:00 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-09-18 8:38 AM So I counted all our mares:
Jet of Honor mare- proven 1D barrel horse, THSRA state qualifier with several girls over her long career, AQHYA world show qualifier, 2013 top 10 AQHYA high point barrel horse:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/doc+o+flits+honor
Reckless Dash mare- WPRA permit filler, PRCA rodeo winner, ANHA 1D shootout qualifier and 2D shootout qualifier, open rodeo money winner, 1D at WBR and Jurassic Classic. Half sister to Levin Lucille and Lucy Lucille
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/reckless+lucy
Strawflyin Buds mare- 1D mare, has won 4 barrel races since I got her in Feb 28, ANHA 2D shootout qualifier. Second dam is Bunnys Fortune
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ms+rare+buds
Rare Bar mare- LTE exceed $25,000 NBHA TX State 1D champion, multiple 1D wins, ANHA 2D shootout qualifier in 2014
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ole+rare+hope
Stoli mare- SI 79. Dam is stakes winner Shiney Miles, half sister to Rare News. Bought to be a broodmare:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bright+miles
Yeah my problem is, I can't afford to ET any of them. We are just now going to breed the Jet Of Honor mare next year, and have two embryos sold on her for people that can pay for that..
The Reckless Dash mare took a year off to have a baby, but is going back into training..
And the other two are in the same boat.. I would love to get babies out of them now, and maybe if I had my own stallion I could afford the ET better but it's such an expensive process :(. Hey in three years I will have a degree to do it though!! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Those are some great "brood" mares!
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma |
nm.......
Edited by TwistedK 2014-09-18 11:36 AM
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| The only distinction I would make is that not all 1D horses are the same and not all stakes winners/placers are the same. The other day on equibase I was looking at a stakes wining mare with $1,200 in earnings, technically black type but not in my book. People often say this prospect is out of a 1D mare...okay...1D where and against who? | |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Whiteboy - 2014-09-18 11:42 AM
The only distinction I would make is that not all 1D horses are the same and not all stakes winners/placers are the same. The other day on equibase I was looking at a stakes wining mare with $1,200 in earnings, technically black type but not in my book. People often say this prospect is out of a 1D mare...okay...1D where and against who?
very valid point!! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| No doubt, Taylor Jacob put some of the best horses in the 2d at the finals last year so it kinda goes both ways.
I know the people in my area and I know how hard they run, so I try and base it off their runs when possible. No backyard gymkhanas included... | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1969
Location: Texas | This!
http://barrelhorseworld.com/horsedetail.asp?ID=236517? | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1028
| Runnin < C > - 2014-09-18 9:49 AM Pedigree, Conformation, Produce Record & Performance Record. Not necessarily in that order.
We have quite a few mares in our program ... lots of old mares and people always question why we keep and or buy such old mamas - but IMO if they aren't old they either didn't do anything themselves or dang sure never produced anything. If you have a younger mare -- by the time she DOES produce some colts, she'll be old too.
Not all of our mares won themselves (track/barrel racing) but the ones that didn't have the opportunity themselves have proven to be pretty nice producers.
They are all bred very nice though - own daughters of somebody - Shawne Bug, Easily Smashed, Jet of Honor, Dash For Perks, Bully Bullion, Freedom Flyer, Dashing Cleat, Dean Miracle, On The Money Red, Reckless Dash, Rime, Rare Jet Extremes, A Classic Dash, Bullys On Fire, Beduinos Charger, Willie Wicked, La Jollas Gold, Captain Biankus
O/o Daughters of Shawne Bug, Special Effort, Easily Smashed, Rocket Wrangler, Go For Bugs, Stocks N Bonds, Oklahoma Fuel, etc.
I agree with Runnin C here. I am very fortunate to have some amazing mares right now, and they sure as heck didn't come cheap. I'm just not lucky enough to find the "deals". But I can say, every mare I have is either a stakes producer or stakes placed herself, with a great maternal family and has solid conformation. The best mare I have couldn't outrun a fat man on the track, so her original owner bred her and everything she's produced (out of several different stallions) have been at least stakes qualifiers. Now, her daughters are producing race winners as well. So, point is, some mares can't handle competition for whatever reason and won't have the performance record, but they can become great producers. | |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| I think the reason people breed no-name or lesser-name mares to good studs is to try to get resale value in the foal. Everyone wants a DTF, so breed a regular ol' mare to him to try to sell the foal for high $$. Some buyers would bite simply because of the DTF.
As far as what I would look for, I would look for a good solid mare with good conformation and some speed that has hopefully been used or an older broodmare with proven offspring. The conformation will help determine how the foal will hold up (hopefully, in a perfect world) and that to me is more important than being a world beater on speed. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
Location: Bigfoot Country | I love a strong maternal line, but..........
What else did Scampers dam produce?
Hotshots?
Seabiscuit?
Secretariat?
I'm sure there are tons more.
So much depends on WHO rides them too. I would bet that if I rode a horse and Charmayne
rode the same horse, she would MAKE it way better than me!
These horses seem to have ONE thing in common.............HEART!
Bloodlines can be great, but they gotta have HEART!.
Don't get me wrong, I love a great pedigree. But winners WIN, no matter who their parents are!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1028
| nuevocowgirl - 2014-09-18 12:44 PM I love a strong maternal line, but.......... What else did Scampers dam produce? Hotshots? Seabiscuit? Secretariat? I'm sure there are tons more. So much depends on WHO rides them too. I would bet that if I rode a horse and Charmayne rode the same horse, she would MAKE it way better than me! These horses seem to have ONE thing in common.............HEART! Bloodlines can be great, but they gotta have HEART!. Don't get me wrong, I love a great pedigree. But winners WIN, no matter who their parents are!
Not to get nit picky, but Secretariat's dam, Something Royal, came from a pretty strong maternal line herself and produced 4 stakes winners besides Secretariat. Heart and whose hands a colt ends up in has something to do with it, but nowadays those really good owners/trainers are going to be looking at a pedigree in its entirety. I believe Molli Montgomery recently did an interview and said that she buys a lot of her prospects site unseen, based on pedigree alone. So, IMO, to up your odds of your colt ending up with a top trainer, I believe that you should breed the best mare you can afford to the best stud you can afford that will compliment your mare. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
Location: Bigfoot Country | bowersk - 2014-09-18 1:08 PM
nuevocowgirl - 2014-09-18 12:44 PM I love a strong maternal line, but.......... What else did Scampers dam produce? Hotshots? Seabiscuit? Secretariat? I'm sure there are tons more. So much depends on WHO rides them too. I would bet that if I rode a horse and Charmayne rode the same horse, she would MAKE it way better than me! These horses seem to have ONE thing in common.............HEART! Bloodlines can be great, but they gotta have HEART!. Don't get me wrong, I love a great pedigree. But winners WIN, no matter who their parents are!
Not to get nit picky, but Secretariat's dam, Something Royal, came from a pretty strong maternal line herself and produced 4 stakes winners besides Secretariat. Heart and whose hands a colt ends up in has something to do with it, but nowadays those really good owners/trainers are going to be looking at a pedigree in its entirety. I believe Molli Montgomery recently did an interview and said that she buys a lot of her prospects site unseen, based on pedigree alone. So, IMO, to up your odds of your colt ending up with a top trainer, I believe that you should breed the best mare you can afford to the best stud you can afford that will compliment your mare.
Oh, I agree 100%! But, just saying, there were some great horses from no-name mares.
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | nuevocowgirl - 2014-09-18 2:12 PM bowersk - 2014-09-18 1:08 PM nuevocowgirl - 2014-09-18 12:44 PM I love a strong maternal line, but.......... What else did Scampers dam produce? Hotshots? Seabiscuit? Secretariat? I'm sure there are tons more. So much depends on WHO rides them too. I would bet that if I rode a horse and Charmayne rode the same horse, she would MAKE it way better than me! These horses seem to have ONE thing in common.............HEART! Bloodlines can be great, but they gotta have HEART!. Don't get me wrong, I love a great pedigree. But winners WIN, no matter who their parents are! Not to get nit picky, but Secretariat's dam, Something Royal, came from a pretty strong maternal line herself and produced 4 stakes winners besides Secretariat. Heart and whose hands a colt ends up in has something to do with it, but nowadays those really good owners/trainers are going to be looking at a pedigree in its entirety. I believe Molli Montgomery recently did an interview and said that she buys a lot of her prospects site unseen, based on pedigree alone. So, IMO, to up your odds of your colt ending up with a top trainer, I believe that you should breed the best mare you can afford to the best stud you can afford that will compliment your mare. Oh, I agree 100%! But, just saying, there were some great horses from no-name mares.
Edited by 3canstorun 2014-09-18 1:37 PM
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Good conformation, disposition and a good pedigree are essential. Performance is nice but not necessary. I used to buy older mares with good performance or produce records but after losing a few to foaling complications or throwing a lot of money at them and not being able to get them in foal, I swore off anything that was older than 12-14 depending on how many babies they had already. I have mares that are 1D performers but aren't producers (yet) and I have mares that are not performers but have the conformation, disposition and pedigree to produce a good horse. It makes no difference in the end result. Meaning the mares with the best conformation, disposition and pedigree to do the job are producing as well as the ones with the proven ability. All of my mares that have had a foal get to the pen are 1D producers. The least "popular" bred mare I have is a 3X 1D/rodeo winning producer. But the pedigree is what sells when all else is equal. | |
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