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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
  
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | I need some training tips for my mare, who in the past year has really started gaining a lot of speed, and is now struggling to get up under herself to turn the first barrel. I'd much prefer to teach her how to handle it rather than slow her back down. She's still hunting, not really wanting to get by it, just losing time getting a little lost trying to gather up, or taking too many steps.
Couple of variables...she is SUPER light. She runs in a locked ring snaffle. I've tried hacks on her, and they are usually too much leverage for her. Heck, a jr cowhorse can be too much for her. I'm curious if I keep her bit the same or similar, and adding a noseband would help? Or maybe trying something like a Simplicity with no chinstrap? I've never been a huge fan of that much movement in a bit... |
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 Veteran
Posts: 209
| I am going through the same thing so curious what people have to say as well! |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Hopefully someone will give you some good answers. One thing I would do is a lot of up and down transitions off the pattern at a canter. That teaches them how to gather themselves and helps with balance and speed control. Also doing rollbacks correctly at a good pace will teach them how to gather themselves and where to put their feet. But like anything else, start slower and work up. Its better to slow down a little and build some confidence because they can do it than stay fast and have them get frustrated or overwhelmed because they can't. You can always speed up-- its harder to re-train when one has a bad experience. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | OK, maybe a video will help. This was the last run she made, 11 days ago. She was 16th out of 96, so it's not like she's sucking it up, LOL. But she was just over 0.6 off a REALLY nice horse and wasted at least that much time on the first, and some more on the second. Oh what she could do if I could speed those turns up just a little. I admit, this was NOT my best riding...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkOwVn7c1AI&list=UUeKtzmJqvEVD2B6o5n...
Here was her 8/31 run at the Barrel Bash in Topeka, also about 6/10ths off a horse that won it all 3 days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQJSUsEltkA&index=1&list=UUeKtzmJqvE...
This was a year ago, 5th in the 1D out of 79. This was the first time I'd ever really seen the speed in her...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOrbEOhNxxU&index=14&list=UUeKtzmJqv...
And just for comparison sake, this is several years ago, when she was still a baby running in the 3D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wXy9Z5-kyY&list=UUeKtzmJqvEVD2B6o5n...
There are more on my youtube, but I just picked a few.
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | Fairweather has some great advice up there and from your first video, you keep a contact with her going to the 2nd and 3rd but you don't seem to have the contact (giving at the poll and face, and ribs) going to the first.
I would maybe try keeping her soft going to the 1st, in the face (just contact enough to see her eye a little) and in the ribs and see if she can't stay under herself a little more.
I would also suggest spirals, changing speeds going smaller and back to bigger with a little contact in the bit...
I hope I made sense lol
But she is a neat little ride! |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I'm not exactly sure how you're going to fix it, but what I see is her taking her head away from you on the first in the most recent video. Nose stuck up and out is never good for the time clock. Now one of my first thoughts is to take her down a little going to the first-is it really necessary to blow through the gate?? I couldn't tell where the timer was. I have a horse that the harder you take him to the first barrel the more out of frame and unlistening he becomes-kind of like a freight train but if I ease him to the time line his brain usually sticks with me. The trouble with the second barrel is probably a repercussion of the 1st barrel.
I don't know what bit to suggest but I love the simplicity bits, if you have the option try one you might like it. I'm also wondering if you maybe could try a VERY long tie down on her in case she wants to get that powerfull to the first.. (gasp) after you try some "rate and come back to me" drills of course.
Lastly after coming up with all of this, it looks to me like her legs are weak-like she's scrambling for good grab with her feet. Is she sore?? New shoes? Dryer ground than usual-maybe she needs new shoes? Sorry for not having better suggestions but I think it's good you asked, something is just not right. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | LMS - 2014-09-17 4:03 PM
I'm not exactly sure how you're going to fix it, but what I see is her taking her head away from you on the first in the most recent video. Nose stuck up and out is never good for the time clock. Now one of my first thoughts is to take her down a little going to the first-is it really necessary to blow through the gate?? I couldn't tell where the timer was. I have a horse that the harder you take him to the first barrel the more out of frame and unlistening he becomes-kind of like a freight train but if I ease him to the time line his brain usually sticks with me. The trouble with the second barrel is probably a repercussion of the 1st barrel.
I don't know what bit to suggest but I love the simplicity bits, if you have the option try one you might like it. I'm also wondering if you maybe could try a VERY long tie down on her in case she wants to get that powerfull to the first.. (gasp) after you try some "rate and come back to me" drills of course.
Lastly after coming up with all of this, it looks to me like her legs are weak-like she's scrambling for good grab with her feet. Is she sore?? New shoes? Dryer ground than usual-maybe she needs new shoes? Sorry for not having better suggestions but I think it's good you asked, something is just not right.
She's not sore, has been vetted. She's had EPM, and she has ok days, and good days...and in the 9/6 video it was dry and sandy, so not a lot of grab. She had week old shoes on in that video. Also, in that video, she didn't blow through the gate (though she would've if I let her--she is always very on the muscle at the gate, wanting to go). It's kind of a weird set up, and the gate is behind the announcers stand and the tree. We are already inside the gate and it's closed where the video starts, and I wouldn't let her take off until after the tree, which was about 25 feet off the timer. But I do see what you're saying about her getting her nose up--and I'm not sure when that's started. When I ask her to set for the first barrel is the only time she evades. Perhaps a tie down would help. |
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 Party Girl
Posts: 12293
Location: Buffalo, Wyoming | I have a mare that is kind of doing the same thing except we are only loping at this point. She only has about 3 months totally on the barrels. I think she is hurting but SO thinks she is being lazy and doens't know how to use herself.
I don't want to steal your thread but would you mind if I posted a video? |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Heart of Texas | It looks like your pocket is too big. You're spending so much time just going around the 1st, that she's tired of her head being messed with half way around it. I would run her straight to that barrel. Watch a video of Kay Blandford. A smaller pocket will make her turns snappier  |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | jewishprincess - 2014-09-17 4:28 PM
It looks like your pocket is too big. You're spending so much time just going around the 1st, that she's tired of her head being messed with half way around it. I would run her straight to that barrel. Watch a video of Kay Blandford. A smaller pocket will make her turns snappier
Funny you should say that, to me it looked like she was cutting off the pocket, haha, but it is a different view than most video's. Maybe when I stated blowing through the gate, it seemed like a really long run to the first than a lot of set ups and it just seemed like she got pretty "pushy" on you- she was really rolling. AS for the shoes is she wearing rims now?? Glad she isn't sore. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | LMS - 2014-09-17 4:39 PM
jewishprincess - 2014-09-17 4:28 PM
It looks like your pocket is too big. You're spending so much time just going around the 1st, that she's tired of her head being messed with half way around it. I would run her straight to that barrel. Watch a video of Kay Blandford. A smaller pocket will make her turns snappier
Funny you should say that, to me it looked like she was cutting off the pocket, haha, but it is a different view than most video's. Maybe when I stated blowing through the gate, it seemed like a really long run to the first than a lot of set ups and it just seemed like she got pretty "pushy" on you- she was really rolling. AS for the shoes is she wearing rims now?? Glad she isn't sore.
She just has regular shoes on, no rims. Maybe that's something to try on the front--I'll ask my shoer to bring some next time he's out. I think they are due the first Thur or Fri in October (she is done every six weeks). It was a very big pen, she ran an 18.1, and a 17.5 won it. Big pens have never been her strong suit--she runs out of gas. I started trying the flair strips and that seems to really be helping.
She sees her vet/chiro very regularly. With the EPM I have to be diligent at keeping her pelvis in. I can always tell when she needs adjusting because she won't roll in the pasture, or she will drop a back lead. But she is a junkie for the chiro...LOVES it! Maybe a little too much, LOL. It was after I brought her back after EPM treatments that she started gaining speed, and A LOT of it. I've never thought she was a fast horse until that. But those short legs can flat SCOOT if she feels like it. I'm just trying to get all the pieces together all at the same time. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I think horses like yours probably need a bit more grip when the base of the pens get hard and dry, talk to your shoer about your options, I would think a rim should would help-maybe all the way around. I have a little nerd at home that loves his massages too but when he's in that pen he flat wants to fly and if the ground isn't super deep he can. Miss running him, my daughter is riding him now and he's so good for her, takes great care of her unless she gets a little too cocky then he shows her how fast he really can go!! Your horse has found a truly great owner-glad you have each other-should be a good team! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1162
Location: White Mountains of AZ | I was looking at one of your other videos, and on your first, she threw that head up and stepped out. But it didn't look like you asked her to rate until you were already at the barrel. When you got to the 1st, you sat and pulled back on her head... Then she threw that head up. So maybe that's something to pay attention too as well. Nice little mare though!!!! :) |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | My advice would be a very light two handed pinky check....better known as a gather. This is NOT to be confused with the two hand tug that you see at many of the futurities. This is just a very, very light, two handed gather that I would do right before you go to the horn. I have to do it usually only on the first, but if a horse is getting a little lost when I add speed on the other barrels i'll do it there too. Basically all this is to do is say ok....we're about to turn so gatttttttther yourself up and get your inside back leg underneath you.
Remember, your outside rein controls your horses hip and somewhat the outside shoulder, so if your only checking with the inside rein or running in and pulling with the inside rein alone, you are completely losing the hip and the shoulder. With the very, very light two handed pinky check/gather, it gets the body underneath itself front too back and keeps a horse from getting their outside shoulder and hip outside of the turn. Hope this makes sense. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Thank you to all! My friend (who is a much better trainer than I) helped me with her last week and we worked on getting that hip up and under and her nose down. I took her to a jackpot last Saturday and really focused on how I was asking her to rate down, especially at the first barrel. She ended up 2nd in the 1D, and I was really pleased with her improvements. There was still several places for both of us to work on, but I was happy with the improvements she made in just one short training session. Can't wait to see what she can do this weekend. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Wonderful advice and congrats on the improvement! I have a horse that wants to be a freight train to the first. I'm going to ride him like Herbie advised at the rodeos I go to this weekend. I did so at slack yesterday and I liked the results. However, I miss judged the slow deep track conditions and when I turned 3rd was very disappointed in seeing both barrels down in front of me! I've had trouble in the past when I'm in transition from colt to rodeo stage.
I want to add, a drill I do is a single barrel and a 50 ft circle. I will transition my horse as I approach the barrel then turn it in a correct form. I will do several turns around that barrel ranging in a distance from 8' to 12' for a younger horse. If the horse isn't leaving it hard I will get a smack in on the last step around, with enough outside leg to push that inside hock into the ground for a hard leave. I start three year olds at a trot/walk and work my speed up to a fast run around that circle into a smooth downward transition with a very soft chin/poll when I ask with my hands.
Edited by uno-dos-tres! 2014-09-26 11:21 AM
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | RockinGR - 2014-09-26 9:38 AM Thank you to all! My friend (who is a much better trainer than I) helped me with her last week and we worked on getting that hip up and under and her nose down. I took her to a jackpot last Saturday and really focused on how I was asking her to rate down, especially at the first barrel. She ended up 2nd in the 1D, and I was really pleased with her improvements. There was still several places for both of us to work on, but I was happy with the improvements she made in just one short training session. Can't wait to see what she can do this weekend.
Yippee, that's awesome to hear! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I would work on her balance and foot placement, and getting her more comfortable with being handled, then help her a bit more. Guide her through it instead of expecting her to figure it out. Some do, but some won't and it's up to the trainer to know the difference. If you don't have a tie down on, I would consider using one for a while to help give her more confidence. It's not unusual for me to use one and take it back off several times through the training process. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RockinGR - 2014-09-26 9:38 AM Thank you to all! My friend (who is a much better trainer than I) helped me with her last week and we worked on getting that hip up and under and her nose down. I took her to a jackpot last Saturday and really focused on how I was asking her to rate down, especially at the first barrel. She ended up 2nd in the 1D, and I was really pleased with her improvements. There was still several places for both of us to work on, but I was happy with the improvements she made in just one short training session. Can't wait to see what she can do this weekend.
Well, I was a day late and a dollar short. LOL. Congrats!!! |
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Training Tips for a Horse That's Getting Faster...