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| I have recently found out my good mare has come down with a case of EPM, blood tests were sent and tried. She stumbled on her back end several times this summer but I didn't think much about it at the time. I think we have caught it early enough and just a slight case, however I want to know opinions and results of people who have treated for EPM in the past!! Cost isn't a factor, I want the best treatment with the best results and lowest chance of relapsing. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
  
| I use the herbal treatment. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I have a gelding, who is just not quiet right. And sent thetest off last monday. I got,the results faxed to me as the vet was not in, it is neg/neg. He has all the nero, he has seen 5/6 vets. But he cant get into ground any more. He has had more injections and he is no better, been tested for pssm. Does not want to ride and the more you work him the more he sulls up. He is such a sweet horse. On the east cost there are a bunch of vets that have delt with this. The more i read the less i know. I spent all day yesturday on the internet have more questions than answers.
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Has anyone on here done dr. Ellerson treatment from florida, oroquin 10.
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Go Misty Go, should chime in for you as she has....
If you have access to SMZ's and levamasole I would start there while you wait on a formula to put your horse on for the 'month' treatment time.
I believe the best horse in the country died this year from EPM it was not showing on the labs but once the necrospy was done it was there. |
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Member
Posts: 10
| daisycake123 - 2014-09-22 6:08 AM
Has anyone on here done dr. Ellerson treatment from florida, oroquin 10.
My vet recommended using Orogin, which is somewhat new but e says he has had really good results with it. It is a 10 day treatment from a lady in Florida. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | I used Oroquin 10 with great results, however my mare just relapsed... see my other post from a few minutes ago.... |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Several years ago we treated one with IV Diclazuril for 5-7 days along with 30 days of I think it was sulfa meds. At that time my vet said that was his treatment of choice and he'd seen the best results with it. |
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Member
Posts: 10
| I am checking with my vet to see if this is the same treatment or if they are actually different. I have Orogin ordered, which is a 10 dY treatment of pills from Dr. Ellison in Florida. |
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Member
Posts: 10
| Jenbabe - 2014-09-22 8:23 AM
Several years ago we treated one with IV Diclazuril for 5-7 days along with 30 days of I think it was sulfa meds. At that time my vet said that was his treatment of choice and he'd seen the best results with it.
Yes the IV drip would be my next choice as I know it has had good results also, but I also heard that it's very hard on the horse? |
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Member
Posts: 10
| How long was she clean before she relapsed? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 589
| How much does the Orogin cost? I had a lady tell me about it and she told me to try it. Is there a website or something? |
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Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | Ask your vet to get it through www.pathogenes.com It is $200 plus whatever your vet will tag on to it. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Acutt22 - 2014-09-22 8:49 AM
Jenbabe - 2014-09-22 8:23 AM
Several years ago we treated one with IV Diclazuril for 5-7 days along with 30 days of I think it was sulfa meds. At that time my vet said that was his treatment of choice and he'd seen the best results with it.
Yes the IV drip would be my next choice as I know it has had good results also, but I also heard that it's very hard on the horse?
We actually did the treatment at home and our mare tolerated it fine. However, I don't believe that our mare's neurologic issues were caused by EPM. She had a heat stroke and became neurologic. She tested positive for EPM so we decided to try the treatment in case that was the cause of her problems. She never came out of her issues, but I honestly didn't expect her to based on the cause of her symptoms. So I don't know if the treatment would be hard on a horse that actually has EPM. But our vet didn't seem too concerned about us treating her at home. I've heard that the first couple days of treatment are really hard on them, but then they improve greatly. And when this was said it was about all treatments not one in particular. |
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Member
Posts: 10
| panamasgold - 2014-09-22 9:20 AM
How much does the Orogin cost? I had a lady tell me about it and she told me to try it. Is there a website or something?
Misty is right. I had my blood tests sent to the Pathogenes Inc. lab in FL, which is who specific recommend the Orogin. However, my vet had recommended orogin also before the tests were even sent off. It is fairly new, but have seen some good results with it! It's going to cost me $250 for the full 10 days, then we will re-test after treatment to see what levels changed. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I am confused as to why you dont think she had EPM when you say she in fact tested positive? I know the heat stroke (or any stress) can trigger the EPM. And in all EMP- the central nervous symptom damages can not be reversed. You can only hope to stop the damage.
Anyhow- if money were not an object, I would use Marquis under the care of a vet. Oriquin is not FDA approved although I applaud her efforts for her studies and have tried the pills recently as a last ditch effort.
There is a very informative video (about 45 min long) on The Horse website from April of this year- very informative. |
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | I used Oroquin 10 compounded paste and had PHENOMINAL results in February 2013. My mare had been not right for a while, but went undiagnosed by multiple vets for at least two years. Went full blown neurologic--think 8 year old mare walking like a newborn foal that doesn't know where it's feet are. We treated her with anti-inflammatories for the few days it took to get the meds, and once meds were started I noticed a remarkable improvement after just a few days.
I entered her 6 weeks post treatment, and it did take a couple of runs to get her confidence back. It was a 3 day weekend run, and she was mid 4D the first run, took a whole second off the second run to get in the middle of the 2D, and another 2/10ths for the final day to barely miss 2D money.
I was very impressed with the Oroquin 10, and really liked that it is so safe. I know that one of my mare's triggers is her transitional heat cycles, so I discussed it with my vet and we decided to be proactive this spring, and we treated her again the first week of March this year. She wasn't having any problems, but my vet said it wouldn't hurt her, and could prevent problems. I maintain mine on AE Detox, and double her up for times of stress, such as over night hauling. I also have to keep her on a pretty regular chiro schedule, because she can sometimes get out in her pelvis and poll. She's been running in the top 10-12% even at big races, usually landing in the top part of the 2D. She did make a 1D 2nd place run yesterday. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| TurnLane - 2014-09-22 9:46 AM
I am confused as to why you dont think she had EPM when you say she in fact tested positive? I know the heat stroke (or any stress) can trigger the EPM. And in all EMP- the central nervous symptom damages can not be reversed. You can only hope to stop the damage.
Anyhow- if money were not an object, I would use Marquis under the care of a vet. Oriquin is not FDA approved although I applaud her efforts for her studies and have tried the pills recently as a last ditch effort.
There is a very informative video (about 45 min long) on The Horse website from April of this year- very informative.
It's been long enough ago that I don't remember the specifics, but I was told that many horses are exposed and will show a positive test. This mare's symptoms showed up after the heat stroke and there was never any improvement after treatment. We did two different treatments and got no response. She may have in fact had EPM, but with how severe her symptoms were after the heat stroke I don't think they were caused by EPM.
We started out with a set of injectable meds from Dr. Brunk in. Nebraska along with sulfa meds. We went this rout because the first vet that saw her wanted to use Marquis but this mare was a bear to give oral meds to and I was afraid more would end up on the ground than in her mouth. We saw no change, which is when we went to a different vet who recommended the Diclazuril and sulfa meds. Again, saw no change. When this mare went down she became neurologic in all 4 legs and had a head tilt. She never came out of it. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Acutt22 - 2014-09-22 8:35 AM panamasgold - 2014-09-22 9:20 AM How much does the Orogin cost? I had a lady tell me about it and she told me to try it. Is there a website or something? Misty is right. I had my blood tests sent to the Pathogenes Inc. lab in FL, which is who specific recommend the Orogin. However, my vet had recommended orogin also before the tests were even sent off. It is fairly new, but have seen some good results with it! It's going to cost me $250 for the full 10 days, then we will re-test after treatment to see what levels changed.
This is the one I was going to go with too. It seems to be a popular choice. |
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Regular
Posts: 73
| I have a mare that developed EPM as a later yearling. It was a horrible case. We treated her with Marquis ! At the time insurance paid for it. EMP is not something to be take lightly treatment should be started immediAtely. My mare came back 100% I sometimes think she is not as big as she could have been but she is the best horse I have hAd and shows no signs of ever being sick. |
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Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | Marquis treatement and then a bag of THE EPM formula. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | Animal Element has a treatment. I used that and Rebalance. ReBalance is basically an old timey treatment, only available from vets or with a script, but it worked GREAT for us and was so much more afordable. I pay $80 per bottle and the first time we did 3 bottles. Since then we do it once a year but we have had no reoccurrances. Almost every vet said no matter what treatment you go with, you need to retreat periodically as it never really goes away...just gets under control. We also feed extra Vit. C, and E. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Honestly, i think there is not a lot known about epm. Not sure why horses seem to relapse. Not sure what drugs are best. As, my horse rested by the uc davis test neg/neg. Thenvet has not,called me back as i called and they got results told to,fax them to me. i did call the lady in fl and she said her test was more sensitive. I got 2 red top tubes from my dog vet and am willing to spend the 38.00 to see. But he is getting worse not fast but he is and i saw them do the nero test and know that him being ridden is not safe. He is not being mean, but he sulls up if you ride him for more than 15 minutes. I have shown him 2 times both overnight shows, i would longue him and then take him imto holding pen and get some one to lead me in. He just looked like he was barely balking. Most people think i am just too nice too him. Beating will just get into a pissing match. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I just say if you think your horse has epm read everything you can good and bad. You can get a lot of info. My horse is not that bad but i can run him any longer for both of our saftey. i saw then do a neruo test and i realize that one leg has no,stength and i thought about it if he falls with me i could get hurt. But his bloodwork came back fri fri uc davis and vet has not called me back so i called dr. Ellison. I went by dog vet and got the red top tube and will pull blood tomorrow. But o some of the blogs i read that someone had taken a horse to the same clinics that i had been too and they got them to talk to dr. Ellerson. I went right to the horses mouth. One thing i did notice there where several on blogs that critisized dr. Ellison. But not one thread or blog did i see where her treatment did not help. Not saying it is a cure all. And a few horse did have a relapse, but after retreating they got better. So i guess i am glad of the way things happen for a reason. I usually dont get along with geldings, but this guy is so sweet and he is a very talented horse he just cant show it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 897
Location: Glendive Mt. | I have used the Oriquin 10 and had great results as well as a friend of mine. Far better then anything out there. You also get more support people in your corner. I would never use anything else. I hope to never need to. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I talked to vet at pathogenes yesturday, went by the dog vet got blood tube will pull and send it today. She said her test is more sensitive that uc davis test. I have read anything other than drug companies advertisment and still looking. Most of information is before 2008 not much after. But i read blog after blog, that the horses pathogenes has treated most of them have been like the above posters treat and horse gets better, and treatment not costly. I read one that they had taken there horse to the same two clinics and got the vets to talk to,dr. Ellerison, in fla. I had the bloodwork taken at vets last monday and sent off to,uc davis and results came back fri. Called they said no vet in, so i called yesturday ask my vet to call me back, no call. i will just send my sample off today and they will call me back.. I have a friend that is a nurse all the way back she is telling listen to the vet, get the good stuff dont scrimp. What she said monday, i know your horse has epm, it just makes sense. Problem, i have listened to vets so far expecting them to know more than i do, and last time just did not feel right, that vet should have just told me i dont know. She has been unsure from the get go as the first time i carried him last year she kept sayimg he is not sore enough, and kinda called him a wuss. He was not a wuss when he would not ride, and last year this time i decieded that i would kinda stay on him and make him sore enough to find it. He would just sull and and refuse to go toward the arena. He is 16.1 and is a bestiful mover. I even let other people ride. He had been not just right for over a year, i had him chiroed and what she said he was jacked up in right hip. That is where his weakness is. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 555
Location: Puky midwest | Merve Williams in Weatherford Texas 1-800-657-8714 |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Make sure you get him on a immune builder. I had a mare that had EPM. The vets told me to make sure she was on an immune builder. A weakened immune system is one thing all EPM horses have in common . |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| This may sound like a crazy question but has anyone's horse started having symptoms soon after being sedated for any procedures like dental work? I agree with Daisy, the more I learn, the more confused I get but this year has been a b**ch for me when it comes to EPM. Never had a horse with it before this year. I have had 3 now. One is a big colt that had some visible neuro symptoms the way he walked in his hind end. The more I rode him, the worse he got in that he would ride pretty good the first 10-15 min, then get to where he didn't want to move and he would get stiff to one side. Had vet do lameness exam and no lameness issue but he noticed this horse almost seemed numb from the shoulder back like he can't feel much. You could jab him with a spur or something and he would barely react if at all We did not test him but we treated him with a compounded sulfa drug with very slight results. My 2nd horse to have it is a nice barrel mare. Only "symptom" was she got really spooky about things that never bothered her before and she would feel like she was stumbling behind the barrels or struggling to handle the ground. Three good vets all looked at her and we did some injections but they were adamant she could not possibly have EPM because she was so sure footed and strong, etc.....After an episode/fit she had in the trailer pressing her head, etc.... (totally out of character for her) I took her back to the vet and insisted on testing her for everything possible and they scoped her. She had a bad case of ulcers but she also tested positive for EPM with high titer #'s. Treated her with Marquis and she is back to her old self, very sure footed, smooth lead changes, no spookiness, and thank God. I had also been saying for the past year this mare is just not quite right but the vets couldn't find anything in multiple visits. I'm using very well known high profile equine vets too.
Horse #3 here is a rodeo horse that is a hard runner and turns. For months he has "stumbled and/or slipped" way too often behind the barrels. Again vets have done lameness exams on him a few times and found nothing. I had his teeth floated the end of June and he started going up the fence at the first barrel.....a WTH moment for sure. I thought the dentist screwed something up. Anyway, he got progressively more stiff to the right even when just exercising him so back to the vet we go and checked his mouth, tooth by tooth, etc....and nothing is wrong in his mouth. I insisted on the vet watching him trot and lope with me on his back instead of the usual trotting off type exam. The vet starts to see him not traveling as coordinated. So I get off and he crossed this horse's hind legs. Horse never moves them. Did it twice and he stood there in a real awkward position like he didn't know it or couldn't feel his legs. yes WTH!!! Trotting off in straight lines and pulling his tail sideways, he was very weak in hind end and had very little resistance to the tail pulling so now treating him with Marquis too. The vet told me to continue with training and that stress is NOT a factor. Either the drugs work or they don't but he does recommend treating for 2 months instead of one. The 2nd month we will use a pharmacist compounded drug that is far cheaper than Marquis. The vet told me that after treating with Marquis for 2-3 weeks, the horse will already have shed off 80+% of the protozoa causing the EPM. They do not take the expensive race horses out of training that test positive for it. They start treatments and keep them in training.
I am sadly bewildered at how many horses are having EPM, like an epidemic. My horses graze in a huge pasture and when they come in to be fed, their rubber feed tubs are cleaned out daily before dumping their feed in there so I know there is no bird or possum feces in their feed tubs. I'm convinced there is some other way it is being passed on to horses that we are not aware of. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| The Protozoa have to have a way to break the blood membrane barrier. The immune system being compromised is one way. Ulcers are another. So I would always use a immune builder and ulcer product when I horse is diagnosed with EPM. I
had a horse that was diagnosed and we treated with herbal and then every 3months would use the herbal wormer. Kept her on immune builder and ulcer preventative. Never had a reoccurrence. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The high profile vet that did the bloodwork for my horse it came back negative. I dont know why he will not call me back, but in the meantime, i sent bloodwork to pathogenes as she said her test was more sensitive. Cant hurt, i need to find out what is wrong with my horse. My horse is like the ones above, went from working well to being sullly and now when he runs you can see the difference in front strides and back strides. From what i read, a lot of times epm horses get labeled stifle horses. I think from the mild symptoms you see a lot of horses that have back problems, and other unexplained lamness problems may have this. I have been on the internet reading and most of the stuff i read was older before 2008. Not much new and what is goes to dr. Ellerson in flordia and is like the post test ans treat and it is from average people who are like us trying to,find a answer. i think epm is like lyme disease not a lot known. I have also read that some of the treatments have only 60% recovery rate. I have also read that sometimes horses will test negative multipule times and when they die test csf (spinal fuild) and have protoza. I know they have found 2 different bugs. Maybe there are more that will not test. There are a lot of unknowns and a lot of affected horses. my horse had more than one problem, he had ulcers making him humpy also he had fusing hocks now there are no problems left, but the vet last monday,was the only one out of 5 to do,neuro test. But it started with horse nubbing off his back toes last year. I will find an answer with out spending tons of money. I been thru that. |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | quickdraw - 2014-09-23 8:20 AM This may sound like a crazy question but has anyone's horse started having symptoms soon after being sedated for any procedures like dental work? I agree with Daisy, the more I learn, the more confused I get but this year has been a b**ch for me when it comes to EPM. Never had a horse with it before this year. I have had 3 now. One is a big colt that had some visible neuro symptoms the way he walked in his hind end. The more I rode him, the worse he got in that he would ride pretty good the first 10-15 min, then get to where he didn't want to move and he would get stiff to one side. Had vet do lameness exam and no lameness issue but he noticed this horse almost seemed numb from the shoulder back like he can't feel much. You could jab him with a spur or something and he would barely react if at all We did not test him but we treated him with a compounded sulfa drug with very slight results. My 2nd horse to have it is a nice barrel mare. Only "symptom" was she got really spooky about things that never bothered her before and she would feel like she was stumbling behind the barrels or struggling to handle the ground. Three good vets all looked at her and we did some injections but they were adamant she could not possibly have EPM because she was so sure footed and strong, etc.....After an episode/fit she had in the trailer pressing her head, etc.... (totally out of character for her) I took her back to the vet and insisted on testing her for everything possible and they scoped her. She had a bad case of ulcers but she also tested positive for EPM with high titer #'s. Treated her with Marquis and she is back to her old self, very sure footed, smooth lead changes, no spookiness, and thank God. I had also been saying for the past year this mare is just not quite right but the vets couldn't find anything in multiple visits. I'm using very well known high profile equine vets too. Horse #3 here is a rodeo horse that is a hard runner and turns. For months he has "stumbled and/or slipped" way too often behind the barrels. Again vets have done lameness exams on him a few times and found nothing. I had his teeth floated the end of June and he started going up the fence at the first barrel.....a WTH moment for sure. I thought the dentist screwed something up. Anyway, he got progressively more stiff to the right even when just exercising him so back to the vet we go and checked his mouth, tooth by tooth, etc....and nothing is wrong in his mouth. I insisted on the vet watching him trot and lope with me on his back instead of the usual trotting off type exam. The vet starts to see him not traveling as coordinated. So I get off and he crossed this horse's hind legs. Horse never moves them. Did it twice and he stood there in a real awkward position like he didn't know it or couldn't feel his legs. yes WTH!!! Trotting off in straight lines and pulling his tail sideways, he was very weak in hind end and had very little resistance to the tail pulling so now treating him with Marquis too. The vet told me to continue with training and that stress is NOT a factor. Either the drugs work or they don't but he does recommend treating for 2 months instead of one. The 2nd month we will use a pharmacist compounded drug that is far cheaper than Marquis. The vet told me that after treating with Marquis for 2-3 weeks, the horse will already have shed off 80+% of the protozoa causing the EPM. They do not take the expensive race horses out of training that test positive for it. They start treatments and keep them in training. I am sadly bewildered at how many horses are having EPM, like an epidemic. My horses graze in a huge pasture and when they come in to be fed, their rubber feed tubs are cleaned out daily before dumping their feed in there so I know there is no bird or possum feces in their feed tubs. I'm convinced there is some other way it is being passed on to horses that we are not aware of.
You mentioned a lot but I think opening the mouth is an excellent theory to possibly activation of EPM. I know when I had autoimmune issues my doctor would not let me have dental procedures done.
But when you mentioned grazing all day but eating out of rubber tubs with no feces- you do realize they are grazing all day in feces, right?? And if they drink from a pond- that is a live source as well.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1157
Location: southeast KS | No one has mentioned using Toltrazuril. Has anyone used it? |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | smashednred - 2014-09-24 12:41 PM No one has mentioned using Toltrazuril. Has anyone used it?
Yes, I used it on a mare between her futurity and derby year break. She came back much stronger than I thought she would. I ran her in the first go of the derby at San Antonio and her young owner ran her in the sweepstakes race that night. She blew the field away and I handed the reins over to the owner! Mare is still going strong at 18 years and running 20's in the poles. I consider her recovered.
I've used several mixes that are off label to help horses. I've used the same meds I've given my goats. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1157
Location: southeast KS | That makes me feel better! I am using it, about thru with treatment. I was recommended to follow up with ReBalance. I am seeing improvement. Had him riding out and ready to start, then he fell apart. Hoping to start legging him back up this weekend and finally get to start him. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| TurnLane, yes I realize feces are in the pasture and the stock tank. That is far beyond my control.....dang it!!! I have thought about that but I just thought it very strange that this horse made a sudden change for the worse within days of having teeth floated. I wish I knew more of the scientific things happening in the body when you sedate them and the chain reactions as a result. Yes I think too much and drive myself crazy trying to figure out WHY, WHY, WHY. It may be purely coincidental as far as timing.
I'm convinced there is more than one strain or type of EPM because 2 of 3 horses that had it here this year, had NO neuro symptoms even when the vets tried to do neuro "tests" like crossing legs, pulling their tail sideways at a walk, etc...Last fall I had a horse with a freak injury and several vets were involved that all told me I should treat him with the cheaper EPM meds though he was not neuro. He just wouldn't get fat and bloomed out and his hair looked dead. The vets said there is "something" the EPM meds is getting though they do not know what it is......maybe an unidentified parasite. So I treated this horse and sure enough he put on tons of weight, especially along the topline, and his hair got very shiny and healthy looking. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| My gelding just started dragimg his,toes. Callled local vet, said to imject hick/stifles, we did no better. ! Went om avout 6 6 weeks carried to another vet. Said i had ulcers gave a,month break with meds. !went to,another show horse,srill had problems. Went to, another vet, still had hock/stifle problems. Had hock /stifle problems, vet said do,shckwave. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The above poster is on the right track as i think that there are several bugs that cause some of these problems, and theynjust dont know how to test. The vet called me last night and since test came back neg he was saying it could be this or that one of which is lyme and told him i wpuld not trailer my horse 2 hourse to pull blood. He said something maybe he could have some back issue, we might do a test with some rebaxin and previcox for a week see if he is better, as he wanted to,do more xrays of back. I am not spending money for guessing. But when i was there he was adament and it was his first guess about epm. But the other test will be back soon. If that comes neg. Have to refigure. But i have read stories that horses test negative and when horse dies they get spinal fluid and there where protzoans in it. Just like 10 years ago navicular was a death sentence now we know more and there are more options. |
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Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | My mare relapsed on epm last week. My vet spoke to the Pathogenes vet and in addition to another round of treatment she also recommended to give her some Quest Plus wormer... |
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 I too, shall remain nameless!
Posts: 2248
Location: Wearing a winter coat...... | This is all super helpful to me. Had one diagnosed yesterday with EPM. We are waiting for the test to come back from UCDavis. What a year it has been trying to figure this out........  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1157
Location: southeast KS | Any good tricks/advice on giving the ReBalance to one that is getting pretty grumpy about the oral treatments? Other than just get tough and deal with it....
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| My test just came back from pathogenes. His sag scores are, 2, 2, 4. she said do nero quell and the wormer thing. Have to get my vet to call, her, out of town till monday.
We will know in a couple of weeks.
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Member
Posts: 19
| I have treated 2 horses for EPM. It has been several years ago but when my horses had it i was told the only way to truly determine if they had EPM was a spinal tap. I spent the money on my good mare and had the spinal tap done. The results came back positive and she was treated with Marquis for 30 days and IV Diclazorel for an additional 10. She recovered but my vet felt that enough damage was done from the lesion that she would not be safe to run barrels on again.It was a long healing process. I was told to not put them under high stress as it would cause a relapse. A friend also treated her good rodeo mare and the vet treated hers with marquis and told her to keep her horses immune system strong and to use marquis before any long rodeo weekends to help prevent a relapse. I never showed my mare again so i can support that statement. However, i can say i have tried both approved FDA medicine and alternative medicine. EPM can be career ending and if money isn't a problem you should treat with Marquis because it is proven to work! |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida |
Sorry, No. And the mare HATED it. But she hates anything put in her mouth, so I don't think the Marque would have been any easier for us. We stayed tough and she finally just stopped fighting it. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Just curios how many vets did u go through before you go a diganosis.
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | I literally brought my horse home today from a VERY thorough testing. He was tested via the UC davis test on Thursday after labor day. The results came in the next Thursday for an 87% positive. He was walking solidly on 4 legs after a bad fall on the first thursday and by that evening he was 3 leg lame. Has been ever since, but I think it mostly has to do with the trauma of his fall and then the EPM balance testing done earlier that day.
Fast forward to this past Saturday he just seemed miserable. I had my local vet out on Tuesday to draw blood for pathogenes and had it sent off. Results came in last Friday. I planned to order the treatment on Saturday except for him being so depressed (we switched from a bute treatment to a previcox treatment for swelling). I was thinking of making the bad call. I gave banamine as I had decided he would at least have a pain free day and called my local vet for advice. In the meantime I sent videos of him walking to the lady at pathogenes and another lameness expert in the state. Well the lameness expert said his x-ray wouldn't work on the shoulder and he HAD to be taken to MSU. So I borrowed a trailer and made an appointment. When I spoke with my local vet he said to just keep him comfortable and keep the appointment at MSU. Well we made it and had a horrible unloading process, but they jumped on him with pain killers and sedation and went to taking x-rays and doing tests every time he stood on his own for a few minutes. We found out nothing was broken, but they wanted to keep him a few days and run more tests. They suspected a completely torn tricep. The next day they ultrasounded and found no torn muscles. The next day they did a neuro workup and found his tricep wasn't receiving any nerve impulses. They started him on Marquis. The vet stated it was the best even though I had already made arrangements to do the Pathogene Origin 10 treatment. Since she felt it would give him the best shot I decided to do it. After 3 days of treatment he is more bright eyed, back nickering, and getting up and down more.
While at MSU he was getting IV DMSO. So after a thorough workup he will be taking the Marquis and she also wants me to start the Rebalance treatment tomorrow too. Covering all our bases. I can't give you results, but I can give you Mississippi State University's vet school recommendation. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | daisycake123 - 2014-09-26 7:55 PM Just curios how many vets did u go through before you go a diganosis.
I'm not sure who this question was for, but I'll answer. Two vets for me as well as as 2 different Chiropractor (equine). Mare started with kicking readomly in the trailer a year before...The first vet is major into homeopathy and accupuncture. She is a DVM, but also treats with as much natural as possible. So we did that kidn of treatment. A year later we were still experiencing odd issues, random super mild lameness issues that would disappear. Lost weight, just had strange issues, like kicking wildly at nothing. Second vet discussed the tests, but not big on the testing because here in Florida, something like 80% come up positive on the blood test, have to do a spinal to know for sure. The spinal is very expensive and invasive (so is the treatment but anyway). Next Chiro did a series of balance tests, she failed every one, was so depressed she would hardly look up. She begged me (as did another friend) to treat for EPM. Money is a big issue here, so I chose the ReBalance and the Animal Element Immune treatments. That's what I could afford.
We saw results with in a week. By 6 weeks she was winning again, had gained her weight back and stopped kicking.
My vet does blood tests for anemia every 2 weeks while on ReBalance, but our mare had no problems.
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Hey what would be the difference between the symptons of epm vs lyme disease. Does anyone know a horse that had epm but did not show in blood test, several times. I dont want to a spinal cause, it is invasive, expensive, and not sure it will show up, as i have heard of horses having it but not show up in blood. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The last vet i went too was sure that is what he had, until blood work came back negative. Then he did not know what to tell me made him fail the nero test, he told me basically it could not be epm cause the test it was clear, maybe lyme, maybe something else. Just kinda told me some hocus pocus. The test came in on a friday and had to call him monday, tuesday and finally called me back on wednesday. I know why he just did not have an answer. But what did piss me off, he could have just said i dont understand. I just dont like when a doctor or vet does know and tells you some hocus pucus stuff you know isnt right. The last vet did a bunch of injections then told me my horse had terrible joint disease. But 3 months before that we did lamness exam and xrays, and untrasound of suspensories. Only problem was lower hocks. Even did xrays of front feet. Fixed hocks, and still not sound wont used hiself in rear. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Bump for the mourning crowd. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| My horse is 4 days out on orquin meds this mourning he was bucking in the pasture, it was cool, but something i,havent seen him do also,last night he was ready to go out, last week he acted like a 20 year old horse. I guess we will see, he does look better already. Just wanted to know how eveyones horses did after taking oroquin 10. How quick you saw results, how long before seeing progress. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | I'm about to go through this too I think. My horse has lost weight, moves funny in back and has a funny wavy muscle tone behind his shoulders. It's lumpy there and a little sore. Won't turn the 1st. Goes from acting sick and down to acting like a complete idiot on the pattern. This has been going on for months and is getting slowly worse. Vet Monday. Bumping for more info :)
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| You can send the bloodwork, your self go on pathogenes website get form and send in if she send you treatment has to,go,thru u vet bthey can call her.
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 Member
Posts: 30
Location: almost heaven | Pathogens. Dr. Ellison. She has the latest and most up to date treatments. By far in my opinion the best there is. She also has the highest success ratio according to her clinical trials. |
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Member
Posts: 10
| Just thought I would post here since this thread is still going on. I am/was the original creator of this whole thread a few weeks ago. I used Dr. Ellison with Pathogenes testing in FL. I was recommended to use Orogin, which is a 10 day pill, (PREVIOUSLY known as Oroquin 10 as a paste) so yes they are the same thing, but they no longer use a paste and now call it "Orogin." Tomorrow marks 10 days since finishing the 10th day of treating. I could tell within 2-3 days just different mannerisms and quirks that my mare has/had seemed to change. I DID also start her on an immune booster. I personally chose the Animal Element Immune because I love their products. Some vets call for no riding, some call for same routine depending on the severity of the case. However, I made a run tonight and was 2nd in the 1D just 9 days post treatment, so I believe she is feeling much better! I will continue with the AE Immune to keep her immune system in tip top shape. I have read so many great things on this thread in the last few weeks, so I thought I would finally share some good news with my personal results so far! ???? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | That's good news! I talked to my vet today. I was firing questions at him at 8 a.m. and he knows I'm crazy... lol
He does do a blood test, but not the same blood test everyone does. He says he trusts it but if I want a spinal tap we can do that too. The meds he has in mind aren't too expensive, but I'll know more tomorrow. I asked him if he could tell by checking him out whether he will come back 100% and he said no, but from my story, he is very sure it's EPM. Hopefully I'll have a good story too! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 428
Location: God's country | I started my mare on the Orogin and we are on the 3rd pill of the 10 day pill cycle. I noticed yesterday that she wasn't dragging her toes like she had been before. She was dragging her toes to the point she was squaring her back toes off. So that's definitely an improvement. We also have her on the 10,000 IU Vitamin E from MVP, 2 scoops a day. I'm hopeful this Orogin will get her back on track. |
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I too, shall remain nameless!
Posts: 2248
Location: Wearing a winter coat...... | smashednred - 2014-09-24 1:41 PM
No one has mentioned using Toltrazuril. Has anyone used it?
I am using this. I am also starting with 4 double doses of Marquis and then doing 40 days of Toltrazuril. We are on day 4 and already I see improvement. I did the UC Davis test and he was a little higher then middle of the road. What are you guys paying for treatment? My vet.....ripped me off. I wouldn't have known but the compound company sent his invoice., 175.00 and he charged me 385! |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I am finished with the ten day treatment almost done with the 14 day neouguil. I have noticed he is a liilte more anamated than he used to be and he is not so draggie in the rear. How long does it take to tell he is back to normal or more back to his self. I an scarde that i am imagineing him better. Hlw long before hlrse went back to,normal. I just dont want to,think he is but he may not be. Pleae help. I will have to do blood work next week. He is just a nice hlrse i want him to be better. I just dont want tl have it in my head. How long after treatment did you ride your horse. When he fell going into the trailer and i knew at that time i should not rife if he fell going into a trailer. How long does it take to get their strength back. Help!!!! When should i start riding. I have been longe lineing him on a 60 foot rope and having to chace him all the way. Tell me about your recovering horses and how you got them in shape.he actually looks a lot happier.
Edited by daisycake123 2014-10-20 8:25 PM
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I am scared tHATHE WILL NEED MORE OF THE OROGUIN TO GET RID OF ALL THE BUGS? HE HAS ONE SIDE WHICH IS WEAKER AND THE ALL THE OTHER? THE RIGHT STIFLE HAS SOME FIBROSIS ON IT AND I KNOW THAT THAT CAN BE WORKED OT OR FIXED? DONT SEE HIM WAK ENOUGH TO TELL IF THAT SIDE IS FETTING BETTER? THIS IS TRULY A 1-D HORSE AND A NICE HORSE ALSO? I AM JUST OVER VETS TELLING ME CRAP AND ME HAVING TO FIND OUT WHAT IS WRONG?!I CAN KNOW PULL HIS TAIL:-)TO THE BAD SIDE AND HE HAS RESISTANCE BUT NOT AS GOOD AS THE LEFT? |
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Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | My results did not turn out in my favor- due to the nerve injury from his fall. I lost my boy on 10/10/14. That day was also my husbands birthday. I now have some supplies I will no longer be needing should anyone need anything extra. Just PM me.
On a side note- the best Vitamin E in the largest dosage I found was Health-E and I believe I got it from Big D Web. 14,000 units per dose I believe. MSU had me giving him 4 doses/day. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Im so sorry for your loss |
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BEST EPM Treatment!! All results welcome!