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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
  
Location: Texas | I have a mare the will just stop and plant her feet in the alley. Works great at home through the barrels and warming up, but refuses the alley. We've never had to turn out because of it. she'll usually end up backing in or just going. She has come up 100% sound at every lameness exam. Could kissing spine be something they are missing? |
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 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | Radiographs will give you an idea if there is any narrowing of the spaces in between the dorsal spinous processes of the vertebrae and any associated bony changes. This is the best (and only) way to truly diagnose kissing spine. Now...Determining if those radiographic changes (if there are any present) are to blame for performance issues is a whole other ball game! |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Have you considered ulcers? They will cause a horse to refuse. |
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 Miss Positive
Posts: 3554
Location: Crowder, OK | ESMS in Weatherford is where mine was diagnosed w/xrays and then Animal Imaging in Dallas is where I had bone scan done. Mines always been a bucker, but hes been inconsistant over past two years Ive hualed him. would run real good and then run like poo.....he would tie up and be entire body sore but really bad through his back half of body....we didn injections, i changed saddles & pads and so far all has been good.....mine never refused alley, but he could run 1d a run or two and then just not even feel like he wanted to move forward on the next run.......I wish I woulda found mine before now but so glad I did get some answers.....its very managable to deal with. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 499
Location: ARKANSAS | I would have your horse scoped for ulcers, this is a classic sign!!!
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1163
Location: Foot of the Smoky Mtns, East Tennessee | What type of saddle and pad did you go to Tinkerbell?
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | The only way to diagnose kissing spines is via back xrays. My horse has KS and he would go up the fence when I ran him. All lameness exams were negative. I have know quite few horse with KS and they all ended up either going up fence, bucking or ducking barrels. My guess is your horse has another issue could be ulcers. I would treat it vs scope as it ends up being cheaper in the long run pulse you would know for sure if thT was his issue or not. Good luck |
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Member
Posts: 25
Location: siberia it seems | My mare never bucked, or ran up the fence or anything like that. She was very hesitant to go in, but bless her heart, always tried. She did however, drop more to her front end when it first started really bothering her. She had 5 places of impingement, and was back sore when the vet first recognized it and we did x-rays, which is truely the only way to know. |
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Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | No ulcers.
Trust me this horse done this for 2 years, we have gone through just about everything.
I've had 2 friends in the past week take horses in because of alley refusal and both horses had kissing spine. This why I'm questioning this now. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | outrundaizy - 2014-09-24 1:58 PM No ulcers.
Trust me this horse done this for 2 years, we have gone through just about everything.
I've had 2 friends in the past week take horses in because of alley refusal and both horses had kissing spine. This why I'm questioning this now.
The best thing to do is take her in to the vets and let them X-Ray her to see if there is any K-S going on. Hope not  |
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Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | This is just a side note.....just because a horse shows on X-ray to have kissing spine it's does not necessarily mean that is what is causing the performance issues. There are some horses out there that show positive on X-ray that perform perfectly. A really great way to know if KS is indeed the problem causing behavioral issues is to do one or both of the following things
1. Inject back and give a few days off then see how they do. If there is a significant change in performance that is indicative of it being and issue
2. Do a block of the neves in the back and then run horse within 4 hours. Again if horse performs significantly better then that would be more diagnostic then just X-rays
Just my experiences with my horse. He is one year post surgery and back 1d/2d against though tx competition |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Most horses I have seen with kissing spine, show back soreness. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 514
| I too have a horse with kissing spine. I ran him a year and a half with no problem . Than just out of the blue he developed an ally issue. Did a whole process of elimination. X rays showed ks. I can get the surgery done but im also afraid he will have it in his mind and still give me a problem. What is anyone's experience with their attitude after surgery? |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I have a horse that just will not run, i have injected hocks, stifles. Even alcohol blocked his his hocks whicj will klll the nnerve and fuse hocks. Then injected stifles. Then we injected stifles and si. Not,any better. Also, he was tested for epm. Came back neg. I sent the test in to,another vet the one in fla. He is nero sore on rifht rear. And more imride him the more sore he get. I talked to,vet today, but we can only test with nsaids the back and hind limb. Tyat s where we are at. I will send test off for lyme disease and crp. The vet does not know we are at the ehd. I am not spendimf money for anything else. The worse thing and ver mentiineda he is a nice horse and he is sweet as he could be. But i did notmtellhim that imsent off blood to another place. Should kmow by monday. And willsend a lyne diseaase and crp test. That wikl tell the tale. Butmfrom what i read about lyme hemhas it a chromic case hust like thenvet suggectied. Imtold,him i think he has epm. I also read that people who horse have tested for epm who came back neg. When the horse died they where tested and camemback,with protoza in there csf i cant believe that. I have a nice horse who,as a 4 year old won a furtity by. 5 second and tipped a barred second day. Now,is running in then4-d. Sucks. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| This is just my opinion. But you said she works fine at home. A horse with something like KS would not work anywhere. The pain would be the same . I'm still saying ulcers. Stress is a trigger for ulcers. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | bigblackhorse1 - 2014-09-24 10:42 PM I too have a horse with kissing spine. I ran him a year and a half with no problem . Than just out of the blue he developed an ally issue. Did a whole process of elimination. X rays showed ks. I can get the surgery done but im also afraid he will have it in his mind and still give me a problem. What is anyone's experience with their attitude after surgery?
I'm interested in that too.... Dr Honnas suggested to start with injections and see if that makes a difference.... if it does then he would recommend surgery.... |
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| I have a horse that has bucked on occasion in the middle of a pattern... but mainly her problem is rearing at the second barrel on the back side of the barrel. I did lamness exams and only the stifle was a bit sore we injected it several times with no luck at fixing it the rearing. she wont ever do it at home only at shows and only about 50 % of the time. if she quit she'd be a 1D horse.
So could this also be kissing spine? how do they know where to inject and how much does this cost? i'm about at my witts end with this horse too and trying to figure her out...
ETA: Sorry OP! I dont want to steal your thread! I hope you dont mind!
Edited by Kgirl 2014-09-25 8:51 AM
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Member
Posts: 34
| If you suspect ulcers ...has anybody heard of people trying 60 cc of Pepto before the run ? |
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| Rookie4ever - 2014-09-25 9:03 AM If you suspect ulcers ...has anybody heard of people trying 60 cc of Pepto before the run ?
I did this for my one of my mares.. i did it for about a week twice a day... she picked up appetite and was really starting to work nice. so i went on GastroGuard and all her issues cleared up :) it is a cheap way to diagnose imo
ps... my mare hated the cherry she only liked the mint
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Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | readytorodeo - 2014-09-25 4:41 AM
This is just my opinion. But you said she works fine at home. A horse with something like KS would not work anywhere. The pain would be the same . I'm still saying ulcers. Stress is a trigger for ulcers.
I normally would agree with you but that was not the case with my horse. He worked great at home but when we went to a jackpot he pulled his stuff. Ultimately it was the kissing spine that was his problem. |
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Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | GoMistyGo - 2014-09-25 8:20 AM
bigblackhorse1 - 2014-09-24 10:42 PM I too have a horse with kissing spine. I ran him a year and a half with no problem . Than just out of the blue he developed an ally issue. Did a whole process of elimination. X rays showed ks. I can get the surgery done but im also afraid he will have it in his mind and still give me a problem. What is anyone's experience with their attitude after surgery?
I'm interested in that too.... Dr Honnas suggested to start with injections and see if that makes a difference.... if it does then he would recommend surgery....
When I first brought him back from surgery I was very nervous about the mental aspect of both of our game. He worked fine sometimes and others he would have issues. I think part of it was he worried when he felt me tense up. I just switched him to the left and he is working like a DREAM. I could probably change him back right now if I wanted to but I am happy with how things are now so why mess with it. I know he is not hurting and it is evident he is happy so I am just going to leave it alone. |
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Member
Posts: 34
| Thanks Kgirl .. All I really know about kissing spine. It's a 50 Percent chance The surgery will work .... Now that's just what I've heard .. And just wondering if That is a trait from the stud.... Hmmmm |
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Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | Cost depends on your vet.... I have paid $400 for a set of back x-rays.... Spoke to Dr. Honnas who is one of the experts for KS... he charges a lot less for x-rays and told me that injections at his clinic would run about $200.
So even it is a long drive for me I think I will take my mare there, as well as the idiot mare to find out if she has KS too.... That would just be my luck to have two horses with it. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I spent thousands on symptoms. Mine was compensating in every which way to work, work, work and coming up sore in SI, hocks, stifles. I finally took him to A&M and did a bone scan. Nothing. Natta. Not one little thing. Last ditch effort, took spinal xrays (costing $250, ha ha, jokes on me) and there. it. was. Took the case over to Dr Honnas, the genius. One of the top 3 worst cases he'd ever seen. Lucky us. This horse never had gate issues, never did anything but go in and run his big red heart out. He was running top 2D times against national competition, then started to slow up, he literally couldn't turn first. He wanted to, he was trying, but he just physiologically and painfully couldn't turn it.
He came back just great. I've given him a year off turned out on the mountain at home to run up and down hills, highstep through sage brush, cross creeks, ditches, run through timber, all the wild brumbie stuff he wants and get his muscle tone back, as the surgery was extensive compared to what other horses get. When I was home in July, I did a quick check of all the things he had stopped doing, like doing stifle stretches. He literally would hurt you trying to get his leg back under him, since the stretch was pulling his back. He now does beautiful stretches, and has absolutely no reaction when you pressure his back, flex him, anything. He feels awesome. I'm hoping to get him back to work sometime next summer and give it whirl, but I'm 100% betting he comes back to the pattern perfectly.
Can't wait. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 514
| Also,my horse developed ulcers during this time. He compesats his back pain and is alittle hock sore. Ive put alot of $ into him him as well. Ive not been competing or enjoying myself. Love this horse, super talent,super looks,disposition. ..but im kind of at the point of maybe selling him cheap and starting over. Its heartbreaking. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| I've been told by 2 vets now that the spot on the back of a gelding I bought may be KS. He has a large bump on the lumbar vertebreas. When hes stressed out or in pain it gets bigger. When hes feeling ok its smaller but still there. I havent rode him in almost 2 months since he chipped his cannon bone. But other than xrays, how would it be diagnosed? The poor guy came to me in January. I felt bad and bought him. He was so body sore it was unbelievable! Ive been gaining his trust and he is doing so much better but that spot worries me.
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | I would just go to a vet that had a good digital x-ray machine and see whats there. If your vet suspects an issue he can e-mail the results to Dr. Honnas and you can go from there. |
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Kissing spine- How did you find your horse had it?