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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| So I am fairly young and only have a 2.5 year old son. Is bullying different now days? When I was in school, we teased and were teased. Somedays you hated everybody and somedays everybody probably hated you. My question is...because I'm inexperienced with this, do you protect or let your kid learn to deal with difficult circumstances? I'm sure there is definatly a line, but where is it?
Edited by Whiteboy 2014-09-30 5:07 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 4625
  
Location: Desert Land | I am 29 and was bullied in school - but like you mentioned I also made some mean comments and treated people bad and they might've considered me a bully too - I surely didn't go out of my way to do it but was the type that would join in on teasing a kid. Nothing was ever physical - it was always verbal. I don't remember ever getting it so bad I had felt tormented, so I never spoke up to anyone about it and if someone was giving me crap I either ignored them or gave them crap back. My own sister was actually mean to me and did whomp on me a little bit - she was more of a bully to me than the kids at school.
I'm not sure if you can or how you can protect your kids from being bullied. I think a certain amount of it is normal and your child will learn that not everyone is nice. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| I have taught my daughter to ignore name calling, etc. I know that some (and her school definitely does disagree with this) that if someone touches you first, and you have gone to the teacher, principal, etc and they have done nothing but the old "no one likes a tattletale" crap...if the bully physically assaults you again and makes first contact a second or third time- punch them.
Then again, I was bullied a lot in school until I and everyone else around me discovered that the "Horse Girl" was strong and could get very angry. I do not want my daughter to hurt anyone...but I also don't want her to be picked on or taken advantage of. In our area the schools have a diversity agenda and any kind of conflict is looked down upon. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Whiteboy - 2014-09-30 4:35 PM So I am fairly young and only have a 2.5 year old son. Is bullying different now days? When I was in school, we teased and were teased. Somedays you hated everybody and somedays everybody probably hated you. My question is...because I'm inexperienced with this, do you protect or let you kid learn to deal with difficult circumstances? I'm sure there is definatly a line, but where is it?
I think it is different today. FB, texting, etc has allowed kids/teens and adults to say and do things they would not have done face to face, they hide behind the screen. There are situations where parents have even joined in. In my day you had to have the guts to say it to someone's face. I also think society has been desensitized so to speak to what is now thought of as behavior that is the norm- cyber bullying, etc. Mob or pack mentality sets in when in the old days info did not travel as fast. I never had to deal with it with my kds, rodeo kept them busy and away from the school drama. I tend to think that you have to let kids learn to deal with difficult circumstances but with the cr@p that goes on today, IDK. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | Along with what others have said. I think that parenting in general has gone out the window these days. People are too busy on their phones and posting ridiculous crap all over social media for attention. I am not including everyone, just the general population. I think those kids who grow up with horses or play any sport will have it better because they are taught so much about life. Those that are raised by TV and video games I think have a better chance at becoming the bully because they may not get the attention they need from parents at home. I too was made fun of constantly growing up because of different things, but I learned early on to ignore and let things roll off my back. | |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | KylaKris - 2014-09-30 5:32 PM Along with what others have said. I think that parenting in general has gone out the window these days. People are too busy on their phones and posting ridiculous crap all over social media for attention. I am not including everyone, just the general population. I think those kids who grow up with horses or play any sport will have it better because they are taught so much about life. Those that are raised by TV and video games I think have a better chance at becoming the bully because they may not get the attention they need from parents at home. I too was made fun of constantly growing up because of different things, but I learned early on to ignore and let things roll off my back.
^ I agree.
I think as parents, one of our greatest jobs is to prepare them for life. As adults, they'll have people that they just don't click with and will have to have the tools to deal with them because mommy and daddy won't be there. I'm not talking about actual tormenting on a long term basis. Some are the extreme opposite and want to 'make life easier' on little Johnny, when in actuality, they're crippling them in the life skills department. | |
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| It's changed in that we used to just deal with it ourselves. After school, at the park or in the school parking lot. Nowadays, if your kid gets into a fight-they get suspended. If your kid fights (and tries to deal with the bully themselves) and happens to kick their butt--then the other parents want to press charges or sue you.
I also agree with the above, parents don't take the time anymore to teach right from wrong. Sure, there is teasing and taunting and you have to learn to live with that and go on. Parents who allow their children on facebook to tell another kid they SHOULD "just kill yourself" aren't really being parents-more like babysitters.
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I was raised by my dad, a military man. He was stern and fun at the same time. He pretty much made it clear that if someone hit me, and I didn't hit back to stick up for myself, I would be in a mess of trouble at home. I also better not be the instigator (sp?).
He raised me to KNOW I was tough and to believe in myself enough to not care what a bunch of idiot bullies said. I am youngish too, 34. I have 2 small boys 6 and 2. They will be raised the same. I can't stand a whiner or cry baby, but they will not themselves be bullies. I hate to see anyone picked on. On here it is usually the soft spoken naive ones. Doesn't make it right, whatever the reason. If you feel the need in person or on the internet to be rude, take a step back and think maybe they are living in a personal hell. Why make it worse. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Bullying really hits a nerve in me. I've been out of school 4 years. Bullying is very different now than it used to be. I went to a very small rural school. My school didn't give a d--- about bullies. The bullied were told to ignore them. My school was constantly trying to out-do the other city schools. Seriously, we got a new school and stadium because the high school down the road got one and dare there's be better than ours. My school couldn't admit they had bullies because it would make them look bad. Finally when I was a senior I had had enough. They learned the tiny little quite and shy one wasn't so quite and shy. As the saying goes "Don't mess with the little guy who doesn't say that much".
It wasn't just students either. I have a physical disability and there were some teachers who refused to make accommodations for me. When I was in6th grade The school councilor even called my mom at work and told her that there was absolutely nothing wrong with me and we were using disability to get special treatment because I was TOO LAZY to learn and they WOULD NOT be giving me any accommodations. This was after I went to my doctor another doctor and even one the school sent me too(she ended up being a god-send) So mom and dad filed a lawsuit against the school system. Dad works for the city and has for 28 years now. He received a phone call at his office from the mayor and mayor told him didn't want to do it but if they followed through with the lawsuit then he would be fired from his job. They couldn't take me out of the school system either because I live in one of the more rural counties in Alabama and the next closest school was a over a hour away. Finally though my dad got my cousin involved who just happened to be the state senator at the time and some jobs were lost including the school superintendent.
Ok I'm off my soap box now. Sorry this isn't exactly what you asked for.
Edited by TessBelle 2014-09-30 10:40 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Bullying is SO much more complex now than it used to be. I'm not even old (22) and it has changed drastically from when I was a little kid in elementary school.
Parents are the ones you have to look out for now.... When kids get in trouble now, parents want to sue, they want someone to lose their job, etc. It's absolutely insane. For some reason, this world is so twisted, so victimized that parents can't fathom that THEIR precious angel did something bad! That they didn't raise a godsend from heaven. They refuse to take responsibility for their child and certainly refuse to force their child to take responsibility for their actions.
Used to kids could work it out among themselves or if a kid was caught bullying that parent snatched them up for an a$$ whipping, or authorized someone at the school to do so for them until the parent could get there.
I think this is the danger in bullying today. People are seeing a greater and greater lack of support from the school system because there is absolutely no reinforcement from the parents of the bad kids, or worse, the parents of those kids DO get involved, and it gets ugly.
Not to even mention all that rodeo mom brought up about cyber bullying.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 720
| It is taken much more seriously now. Back then, if you had a problem, you fought it out. That seems to be frowned upon today. Kids take the teasing more seriously, too. They don't just brush it off like we used to. Now they kill themselves, therefore, the adults have to take it seriously, too. A kid in my school was out for 2 days last week because he said he was going to knife another kid. Would he have done it? I doubt it, but we can never be too sure these days. | |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | When I was a kid there were always those "no bullying policies" etc. they never worked. The way we handled it was either mouth off to the other so they knew you weren't an easy target, or there was a fight at 3:00 on the playground. I got bullied young and at times I thought for SURE my life was hopeless and I would never have friends. I just learned to mouth off and people would leave you alone pretty much. And the most important part was having a good strong group of friends! And my parents always told me that I wouldn't ever be in trouble with them if I was defending myself. My parents never got involved when I was being bullied because I was positive it would make any situation worse.
Now that I'm dating someone with two young kids his 8 yr old is now being bullied(and coincidentally just hand a thread asking for advice). My understanding is they are just calling him some names. OBVIOUSLY i don't want to encourage him to start slinging fists or shooting out "yo momma" jokes at these kids. But it was handled by time spent with the counselor, mom coming into school and hanging out all day, and telling the teacher which kids. When I was a kid that would of earned you a lot of torment, but apparently it has stopped since his mom came to hang out with him. I don't know if he just stopped talking about it, or the mean kids just found a new target, or the mean kids parents scared the snot out of them to quit it.
I don't know if this helps you make a decision on how to handle your own child when situations arise in the future, but for me it was a learning experience that maybe these tactics actually do resolve these types of situations.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| LoudAppy - 2014-10-03 11:17 AM
It is taken much more seriously now. Back then, if you had a problem, you fought it out. That seems to be frowned upon today. Kids take the teasing more seriously, too. They don't just brush it off like we used to. Now they kill themselves, therefore, the adults have to take it seriously, too. A kid in my school was out for 2 days last week because he said he was going to knife another kid. Would he have done it? I doubt it, but we can never be too sure these days.
You say they take it seriously, but what actions have you seen to prove this?
I have seen signs up, and I have seen children still being bullied.
I spoke with a girlfriend yesterday who has a kid in grade 2, she said yes there was a bully, and yes there is one child who gets picked on repeatedly. She says nothing has been done.
My girlfriend says the wife of the bully won't do anything she says because she has 4 boys, the father is in the oilfield so gone a lot. Lack of parenting.
Problems are in Canada children have to go to school, or homeschooled till the age of 16. If there is no record of school, social services will intervene. So how can a school expel the bullies in a rural community when the mother refuses to homeschool.
How can you segregate bullies from the rest of the school, it would be too expensive.
How can you offer counselling when the parents refuse?
Right now in our province, zeros cannot be given, and students can not fail as this can damage their self esteem. Soon they will be able to brag 100% graduate rate. | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | What really bugs me is when the parents of the bully get involved and do nothing, or encourage it. They need their butts kicked.
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Of course times have changed! Heck, I might have an extreme "redneck" country boy/girl upbringing but I remember when people would actually whip each others a$$ when they disagreed! GASP! I remember sitting in the bar as a kid GASP in the early evening playing pool (with the neighbor kids) while my folks socialized with neighbors-granted I was never redneck enough to be there til closing time, but I remember bar fights and actual fist fights! I seriously can't believe grown adults have gotten so timid/tromped on/or "socialized" that they no longer physically fight! What I see some people do/say to others is just over the top. So, now that I've said that I have 2 kids 11 and 8, I don't think either of them are technically bullied, they are both well mannered happy kids. We had a bus incident last year with my son and his seat mate, seat mate ended up with a bloody nose (after many attempts to get the bus driver to help my son), now they are buddies-am I proud that it took my son to hit his buddy? Heck no, did it work? this time it did-but my son was always told if he gets caught fighting he's going to be in trouble-both kids better have good explanations as to what was going on and why they were fighting. I still say almost weekly at work-more people need a good licken! I'm not sure anything was better 30 years ago, but I do think there was more personal respect, people were more polite and friendly. Just like the herd of mares and foals, is someone does something stupid the rest kick the crap out of the dumb one until they learn!.
We are living in a world full of people entitled to fairness, but in reality I think the entitlement has gone too far, people are so brainwashed that everything needs to be nice, polite, easy they get caught up in not being able to do what's right, like stand up for themselves or their friends when bad situations come around. Everyone points their finger and says they'll sue, aaarrgh just kick the crap out of the dumb one until they learn :)
I like to believe that I've given my kids the skills to not draw attention to themselves unless they need it and to be able to stand up for themselves and for what they believe is right! They both know how to make a fist properly as well ;) | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | LMS - 2014-10-03 1:42 PM Of course times have changed! Heck, I might have an extreme "redneck" country boy/girl upbringing but I remember when people would actually whip each others a$$ when they disagreed! GASP! I remember sitting in the bar as a kid GASP in the early evening playing pool (with the neighbor kids) while my folks socialized with neighbors-granted I was never redneck enough to be there til closing time, but I remember bar fights and actual fist fights! I seriously can't believe grown adults have gotten so timid/tromped on/or "socialized" that they no longer physically fight! What I see some people do/say to others is just over the top. So, now that I've said that I have 2 kids 11 and 8, I don't think either of them are technically bullied, they are both well mannered happy kids. We had a bus incident last year with my son and his seat mate, seat mate ended up with a bloody nose (after many attempts to get the bus driver to help my son), now they are buddies-am I proud that it took my son to hit his buddy? Heck no, did it work? this time it did-but my son was always told if he gets caught fighting he's going to be in trouble-both kids better have good explanations as to what was going on and why they were fighting. I still say almost weekly at work-more people need a good licken! I'm not sure anything was better 30 years ago, but I do think there was more personal respect, people were more polite and friendly. Just like the herd of mares and foals, is someone does something stupid the rest kick the crap out of the dumb one until they learn!.
We are living in a world full of people entitled to fairness, but in reality I think the entitlement has gone too far, people are so brainwashed that everything needs to be nice, polite, easy they get caught up in not being able to do what's right, like stand up for themselves or their friends when bad situations come around. Everyone points their finger and says they'll sue, aaarrgh just kick the crap out of the dumb one until they learn :)
I like to believe that I've given my kids the skills to not draw attention to themselves unless they need it and to be able to stand up for themselves and for what they believe is right! They both know how to make a fist properly as well ;)
I have to agree with you on the fighting. Do I think it will fix all issues, no, but it dang sure can some of them. I have personally never been in a fight. I don't instigate them and sure try to keep from it. But I dang sure would get crazy a$$ nasty if someone hit me.
All animals have some sort of fighting to establish respect, I don't feel we should stoop to acting like animals exactly but my farrier who just turned 70 was telling me a story. He is a stand up guy in all aspects, a great father and husband. I had no idea prior, but he was telling me his father in law never thought he was good enough for his daughter. Just a no good rancher. So he said one time the arguements came to blows and afterwards, they never had an issue since. Kind of made me giggle, because I just can not imagine him mad enough to throw a punch, but whatever works I guess. | |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I think what it really comes down to is lack of respect: (your farrier earned his FIL respect that day)
For ourselves and for others.......think about it. As adults we are told we should "take it" and we continue on until there is such a lack of respect for ourselves it's pathetic and then how do we respect others when we can't even respect ourself?
No fights for me either, close a few times, but was able to intimidate the smart a$$ enough to get by. Don't want to act like an animal but I will if I have to. (I had enough home lessons to know how to make a fist and hit properly if needed)
Sit in a social setting sometime and listen to people talk to each other-eek-bunch of damn animals! :)
Edited by LMS 2014-10-03 3:02 PM
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | Your child is still young so you can't really explain much to a child that age. When your child is close to 6 and starts real school thats a good age to explain a few things. I have always told my children to stand up for themselves. If someone hits them, hit back, if someone says something bad say something back. When my daughter was in fourth grade a boy that sat near her would block her way and not let her get to her seat, he would push her with his chest. She asked me what to do about it. The next day he did the same thing and she pushed him down on to the floor! He never bothered her again and the teacher said nothing, if she had I would have explained and got involved, but my daughter handled it herself and it was solved. if I had gone the kid likely would have picked on my daughter more. Yes sometimes much bigger kids will pick on your child but if they stand up for themselves it will end 99% of the time. If my children ever picked on a weaker or shy kid they would have to answer to me, and I am NOT a time out parent ! | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| LMS - 2014-10-03 2:42 PM
Of course times have changed! Heck, I might have an extreme "redneck" country boy/girl upbringing but I remember when people would actually whip each others a$$ when they disagreed! GASP! I remember sitting in the bar as a kid GASP in the early evening playing pool (with the neighbor kids) while my folks socialized with neighbors-granted I was never redneck enough to be there til closing time, but I remember bar fights and actual fist fights! I seriously can't believe grown adults have gotten so timid/tromped on/or "socialized" that they no longer physically fight! What I see some people do/say to others is just over the top. So, now that I've said that I have 2 kids 11 and 8, I don't think either of them are technically bullied, they are both well mannered happy kids. We had a bus incident last year with my son and his seat mate, seat mate ended up with a bloody nose (after many attempts to get the bus driver to help my son), now they are buddies-am I proud that it took my son to hit his buddy? Heck no, did it work? this time it did-but my son was always told if he gets caught fighting he's going to be in trouble-both kids better have good explanations as to what was going on and why they were fighting. I still say almost weekly at work-more people need a good licken! I'm not sure anything was better 30 years ago, but I do think there was more personal respect, people were more polite and friendly. Just like the herd of mares and foals, is someone does something stupid the rest kick the crap out of the dumb one until they learn!.
We are living in a world full of people entitled to fairness, but in reality I think the entitlement has gone too far, people are so brainwashed that everything needs to be nice, polite, easy they get caught up in not being able to do what's right, like stand up for themselves or their friends when bad situations come around. Everyone points their finger and says they'll sue, aaarrgh just kick the crap out of the dumb one until they learn :)
I like to believe that I've given my kids the skills to not draw attention to themselves unless they need it and to be able to stand up for themselves and for what they believe is right! They both know how to make a fist properly as well ;)
^^This^^ was our experience also. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | As a teacher, I can tell you that bullying is SOOOOO much different than when we were in school. The Internet plays a HUGE part in this. I've seen very few physical fights at school, but can't begin to count how many times I've seen a kid crying because of something that happened or was said online.
Bullying has also gotten more malicious. Kids not only get made fun of for what they wear or do, but also for their socioeconomic status, sexual experience levels (like for being a virgin) - it is BAD.
As a parent, like you I have youngsters and hacent come to this bridge yet. I plan on teaching my children that some people are just jerks, and as long as the bullying is benign teasing, I will let it happen. If the "teasing" becomes a daily occurrence or escalates to any sort of malicious behavior, I will address it as the situation calls for it. I'm not going to shelter my children from the jerks, but I'm sure not going to allow them to be made to feel miserable or unsafe.
As far as physical fighting goes: they better not start a fight, but they are darn sure allowed to stand up for themselves.
ETA: if I found out my children were BEING bullies - their lives outside of school and home would be OVER until they made some changes. I would not tolerate bullying from my children. I really hope and like to think I'm raising compassionate and kind gentlemen and won't ever have to even deal with that aspect. *fingers crossed*
Edited by svincent 2014-10-03 5:48 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 720
| cheryl makofka - 2014-10-03 11:36 AM LoudAppy - 2014-10-03 11:17 AM It is taken much more seriously now. Back then, if you had a problem, you fought it out. That seems to be frowned upon today. Kids take the teasing more seriously, too. They don't just brush it off like we used to. Now they kill themselves, therefore, the adults have to take it seriously, too. A kid in my school was out for 2 days last week because he said he was going to knife another kid. Would he have done it? I doubt it, but we can never be too sure these days. You say they take it seriously, but what actions have you seen to prove this? I have seen signs up, and I have seen children still being bullied. I spoke with a girlfriend yesterday who has a kid in grade 2, she said yes there was a bully, and yes there is one child who gets picked on repeatedly. She says nothing has been done. My girlfriend says the wife of the bully won't do anything she says because she has 4 boys, the father is in the oilfield so gone a lot. Lack of parenting. Problems are in Canada children have to go to school, or homeschooled till the age of 16. If there is no record of school, social services will intervene. So how can a school expel the bullies in a rural community when the mother refuses to homeschool. How can you segregate bullies from the rest of the school, it would be too expensive. How can you offer counselling when the parents refuse? Right now in our province, zeros cannot be given, and students can not fail as this can damage their self esteem. Soon they will be able to brag 100% graduate rate.
I can only speak for my own school, and the stories I've read. I know that there are anti-bullying campaigns everywhere. Do I have proof that they work? Of course not. I don't even believe that they work. I just know that it is taken seriously, there are programs, it is expressly taught in my school. Now that you've got me thinking, though, the lessons are always about what to do if you see someone being bullied, what to do if you are being bullied. None of them teach the kids how NOT to be a bully, or what punishment there is (besides suspension) for being a bully. | |
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Bully Thread (not the bullion type)