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Expert
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Location: Southwest Louisiana | Don't want to start a debate or argument, just want to know if there are any others out there that do this. This past year I've come across a lot of Christian people who no longer celebrate holidays like Christmas, Halloween, New Years, etc. because of specific commands in the bible. Instead, they celebrate the holy celebrations that are in the bible. I've been looking into this a lot and have learned a whole lot of information and facts that I never knew about Chrismas and the bible as well. Just wanted to see if there are more out there. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
 
| No. I know it is commercialized and the true meaning can be lost but we try hard to keep it about the true gift of the season. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1549
Location: Southwest Louisiana | Not for the commercialism, though that's way out of hand. I mean from the biblical side of things - Christmas isn't in the bible, wasn't really anywhere near Jesus' birthday, so many of the things about Christmas originated from Pagans, etc. I don't want to get into all of it here, just wanted to know if there were any bb's who followed the bible closely and not holidays. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| As my kids have become adults and our parents are aging and some in ill health, our whole family has realized the reason we love the holidays is the chance to see each other, eat good food, drink my FIL's version of eggnog and laugh. One side exchanges very few gifts and I think this year we are going homemade or not any presents. The other side exchanges gifts but that is not the focal point of the day. I hope this thread continues because I find other peoples' views very interesting whether I agree or not. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | My sister was part of this movement for a short time. Most of the time it is related to the Hebrew Roots movement, stressing the study of the Old Testament more which more modern Christians tend to not read or pay attention only to certain stories. This also focuses on a Hebrew interpretation of New Testament writings over a Greek one, which more modern theology is based on coming out of Renaissance humanism. I personally understand the position though I don't practice it. I'm very well read not only on the Bible itself but information about the Bible too. My sister is more thoroughly informed than me though.
A lot of early modern Puritan movements also eschewed holiday celebrations as do Jehovah's Witnesses, who are Christians though not always included in that group by those following a more traditional Western/Roman theology.
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 Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | I have found that Christmas and Easter are over the top commercialized but it is the responsibility of the Christians to keep the TRUE meaning a live and in the public eye. My daughter was a little older, but as my faith deepened I found it VERY hard to keep the whole fictional character thing going. I think she was 5 when I told her the truth and expressed that we need to focus on Jesus and not the other. My son was even younger and I stopped hiding that the other wasn't real. Christmas Eve church service is my favorite service of the year :)
I am not sure what specific verses you are referring to in the Bible (my Bible gets used and if you point me in the right direction I can find it, I am just not got at memorizing verses or anything for that matter). I also know that I worked with a lady, several years ago, that celebrated different Christian holy holidays and it always upset her that she could not have those holidays off but had Christmas and Easter. I guess though one thing that upset me about her was that after many conversations, we were both solid believers in Christ and him dying for our sins, the main differences were we just celebrated different holidays/ holy days. However, I respected that about her but she was very down on Christmas and Easter. I am not saying everyone, choosing to celebrate differently, is like that. It is just the experience I had. Why should I care if she celebrates Christ on such and such date and me another as long as we fully support one another that he is our ultimate celebration.
I do firmly believe is up to all Christians to keep Christ alive in Christmas and Easter. We have to start in our own hearts, homes, churches, communities.... but we can't walk away from this battle. We are letting to many of our religious freedoms and traditions disappear as it is. Even if those our not the dates someone choose to celebrate it comes down to millions of Christians do and we all need to support one another. I feel like if we don't start speaking out more, it is like we are allowing commercialization and those who want Christ completely taken out of holidays, win.
Now in MY opinion, holidays like Thanksgiving, Veterans Day, Memorial Day...to me are VERY important but for different reasons. Halloween and New Years are holidays of "fun/ silliness"
I have written and rewritten this because I am finding this topic difficult to betray accurately coming across a computer screen. Plus, it struck a cord in my heart about all of this. | |
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Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 8:09 AM Not for the commercialism, though that's way out of hand. I mean from the biblical side of things - Christmas isn't in the bible, wasn't really anywhere near Jesus' birthday, so many of the things about Christmas originated from Pagans, etc. I don't want to get into all of it here, just wanted to know if there were any bb's who followed the bible closely and not holidays.
I just read this after posting my first post. I guess I would be interested in where you are finding these scrpitures. I do agree that Dec. 25 is not in the Bible but I sure wish I can remember why that date was choosen. I am going to have to shot out an email to my pastor, I know she has talked about it before. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1549
Location: Southwest Louisiana | There are tons more places that have this info out there, these are just two I found quickly. I grew up catholic and Christmas and Easter were always important. Christmas has always been my absolute favorite time of year. This year I came across this info and was completely shocked. I guess a lot of people already knew this stuff, but I had no clue. I was raised Catholic, but have never once read the bible. Some verses, yes, listened to them at church, but never really dug into it like I have this past year.
After learning about these things, my world has been kind of turned upside down. I'm really struggling with which way to go here. That's one reason I figured I'd ask here. So many people with common sense and strong values.
http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/why-some-christians-dont-celebrate-christmas/
http://christiannews.net/2012/12/22/truth-or-tradition-christians-who-dont-celebrate-christmas/
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Expert
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Location: Southwest Louisiana | Oija, I believe we are talking about the same thing. Like I said, I'm very new to this and don't really know which way to go at this point. The things I'm learning are facts, so it's not like it's off the wall stuff or someone opinion. But then again, some of it just sounds so crazy! lol. The more I look into what God actually commands us to do, and realizing that hardly anyone (including myself) does these things, it's just hard to wrap my mind around. But now that I know these things, how can I go back to living like I always have? Should I go completely against what's normal these days, and follows His commands exactly like the book says? If I just celebrate Christmas like I always have, I'll feel guilty now, like i'm going directly agains His commands.
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Celebrate if it makes you happy. Most churches celebrate these holidays, it's just a small sub-set who don't. I like to have fun, so I'm all about it but I am careful not to lose sight of the real meaning behind the holiday and the symbols. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | This is my personal opinion, and I'm not religious, so take it for what you will (I grew up Catholic though)
I think what God would care about the most is people trying to live a good, kind, and ethical life.
Help others, and love one another
I would think celebrating one holiday or another wouldn't matter as long as you are celebrating for the right reasons.
Seems pretty silly that god would send good people to hell for celebrating some holiday if they were a good person.
However, this is all JMO from an agnostic's perspective which is worth what yall paid for it. ;-) | |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| At a time when traditions are dying. I hope Christians continue to speak out and teach the real reason for the season. People need it. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-13 9:20 AM
Celebrate if it makes you happy. Most churches celebrate these holidays, it's just a small sub-set who don't. I like to have fun, so I'm all about it but I am careful not to lose sight of the real meaning behind the holiday and the symbols.
^^This^^ | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I could not ever see us/as my family not celebrating Christmas or Easter. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 9:15 AM
Oija, I believe we are talking about the same thing. Like I said, I'm very new to this and don't really know which way to go at this point. The things I'm learning are facts, so it's not like it's off the wall stuff or someone opinion. But then again, some of it just sounds so crazy! lol. The more I look into what God actually commands us to do, and realizing that hardly anyone (including myself) does these things, it's just hard to wrap my mind around. But now that I know these things, how can I go back to living like I always have? Should I go completely against what's normal these days, and follows His commands exactly like the book says? If I just celebrate Christmas like I always have, I'll feel guilty now, like i'm going directly agains His commands.
Rocket, my sister did not celebrate Christmas in a traditional way for a long time. She still saw it as a reason to get together with family but wanted to celebrate Chanukah instead, Feast of Thrones, Trumpets, etc. She would not buy presents or have a tree but attend family celebrations. She was okay with us getting her and her family gifts and would buy for us (that is still a Chanukah tradition). She was primarily worried about the date and many things about Christmas itself that can be traced back to pagan holidays. The two links that you point out actually recognize this.
To make a long story short, Christ lived and died in the period 0-33 AD. Prior to that time and until Christianity as a religion really took hold (around 300 AD), paganism was the going thing. Pagans celebrated holidays based on the turning of the season. What we consider the first day of winter or the winters solstice, Dec 21-22, was regarded as a particularly important time because the days would get longer again, more daylight. This was reviewed as symbolic of rebirth. So most cultures celebrated it, some on the exact day and others on days very close. In this case the birth of Mithras and Apollo were celebrated on the 24th and 25th of December. When Pope Gregory the Great saw that many people did not want to give up their holidays as much for practical reasons as religious one. (Everybody likes a day off from work and an excuse to celebrate with friends and family) This winter festival provided that. He thought it would be easier to evangelize these pagans if the day didn't change but the reason for celebrating did. The same was often done with churches. There are many European churches built on the sites of old pagan holy places. Have the Muslims not done the same thing with the Dome of the Rock built over the site of the destroyed temple in Jerusalem?
What you must decide for yourself is whether the reason is more important than the day. We honestly do not know what day Jesus was born on, though it was more likely in July or August (one reason some Christians celebrate in July). We can pretty clearly definitively state based on historical evidence that he was NOT born on the 24th or 25th.
Imagine adopting a child though and you did not know what day they were born on. Would you not invent a day still to celebrate? Perhaps the day you adopted them instead. This need to celebrate is human. The need to celebrate what we believe in is even more human. You must decide for yourself if the 'reason for the season' is more important than the connections with early paganism and idolatry or not.
More reading and prayer will help you, but this is a decision everyone must make for themselves. Do realize other people in your family may be upset. But it is your life and your choice. | |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-13 10:05 AM I could not ever see us/as my family not celebrating Christmas or Easter.
Ditto. First grandbaby will be here in March, was just thinking how fun the holidays are going to be. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Look for Pope Gregory's Rule for Pastoral Care (freely available on the internet). It may help you understand some. | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | rodeomom3 - 2014-10-13 10:21 AM Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-13 10:05 AM I could not ever see us/as my family not celebrating Christmas or Easter. Ditto. First grandbaby will be here in March, was just thinking how fun the holidays are going to be.
And having the little ones around makes it even more special. .. And congrats to you on your first grand baby, we are working on the 4th, DIL is 4 months prego with her 3rd.  | |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | Give it time... Christmas will soon become politically incorrect and we will be labeled religious zealouts for celebrating it. Stores will no longer be aloud to put up decorations, Christmas Carols will be outlawed. The loudmouth Liberals who are offended for the minority who don't believe are getting away with everything else, it's just a matter of time. | |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I celebrate Christmas because it is an excuse to relax, eat amazing food, and spend time with family. :)
I was also raised Catholic and like you I did not read the Bible. I hardly knew anything from the Bible even though I went to Sunday school every Sunday from the time I was 6 until I was 16. It wasn't until I met my now husband who is an Adventist did I start to actually read the Bible and study it more in depth and learn about how all of our religious rituals are actually pagean based and many actually go against what the Bible teaches.
We are neither Catholic or Adventist now. We do not "claim" a religion. We do go to Adventist church now and then for the fellowship. Otherwise we pretty much just read the Bible and try to live our lives as good Christians. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1409
| Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 6:21 AM Don't want to start a debate or argument, just want to know if there are any others out there that do this. This past year I've come across a lot of Christian people who no longer celebrate holidays like Christmas, Halloween, New Years, etc. because of specific commands in the bible. Instead, they celebrate the holy celebrations that are in the bible. I've been looking into this a lot and have learned a whole lot of information and facts that I never knew about Chrismas and the bible as well. Just wanted to see if there are more out there. Have you read PaganChristianity? ~ ? It is a very well researched and documented book on the origins of what we call modern Christianity. I don't live by this book or promote everything in it, but it is a must read for all "Christians" in my opinion. We must think and learn for ourselves and that means reading and studying different beliefs other than your "denominations."
We do still celebrate "Christmas" by giving gifts and dinner, but I don't really decorate anymore or promote it as Jesus' actual birthday. The same goes for Easter, but not the truth of Passover and Resurrection.
In my opinion I would say be careful with the Hebrew Roots movements. Read Galatians. Even Jesus broke the "Laws" on a few occasions to show that He is the root of the New Promise, which is an inward, spiritual belief that we must grasp and trust in. I believe that is why Jesus prohesied about the temple being destroyed, which it was, to show us that God no longer dwells in buildings or certain rules, or certain days, but inside each one of us. The Old was fulfilled in order to bring the full truth of Jesus, living inside of us. No longer about following a define set of rules, but living according to His -Jesus' words of Loving God and our fellow man, Love truly fulfills all of the commandments.
Edited by TyE 2014-10-13 12:44 PM
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-13 10:26 AM rodeomom3 - 2014-10-13 10:21 AM Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-13 10:05 AM I could not ever see us/as my family not celebrating Christmas or Easter. Ditto. First grandbaby will be here in March, was just thinking how fun the holidays are going to be.
Thank you, we are excited! Congrats to you too! | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | rodeomom13 - 2014-10-13 10:46 AM Give it time... Christmas will soon become politically incorrect and we will be labeled religious zealouts for celebrating it. Stores will no longer be aloud to put up decorations, Christmas Carols will be outlawed. The loudmouth Liberals who are offended for the minority who don't believe are getting away with everything else, it's just a matter of time.
I hope I'm not around to see it as I agree with you. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | TyE - 2014-10-13 11:19 AM
Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 6:21 AM Don't want to start a debate or argument, just want to know if there are any others out there that do this. This past year I've come across a lot of Christian people who no longer celebrate holidays like Christmas, Halloween, New Years, etc. because of specific commands in the bible. Instead, they celebrate the holy celebrations that are in the bible. I've been looking into this a lot and have learned a whole lot of information and facts that I never knew about Chrismas and the bible as well. Just wanted to see if there are more out there.
Have you read PaganChristianity? ~ ? It is a very well researched and documented book on the origins of what we call modern Christianity. I don't live by this book or promote everything in it, but it is a must read for all "Christians" in my opinion. We must think and learn for ourselves and that means reading and studying different beliefs other than your "denominations."
We do still celebrate "Christmas" by giving gifts and dinner, but I don't really decorate anymore or promote it as Jesus' actual birthday. The same goes for Easter, but not the truth of Passover and Resurrection.
In my opinion I would say be carefule with the Hebrew Roots movements. Read Galatians. Even Jesus broke the "Laws" on a few occasions to show that He is the root of the New Promise, which is an inward, spiritual belief that we must grasp and trust in. I believe that is why Jesus prohesied about the temple being destroyed, which it was, to show us that God no longer dwells in buildings or certain rules, or certain days, but inside each one of us. The Old was done away with to bring the full truth of Jesus, living inside of us. No longer about following a define set of rules, but living according to His -Jesus' words of Loving God and our fellow man, Love truly fulfills all of the commandments.
As I mentioned, my sister ending up giving up this movement after more intense study. There are some issues with it. Then again, there are issues with every denomination and belief system. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can with the knowledge and information we have. I believe God will look into our hearts and know. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
| oija - 2014-10-13 12:12 PM TyE - 2014-10-13 11:19 AM Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 6:21 AM Don't want to start a debate or argument, just want to know if there are any others out there that do this. This past year I've come across a lot of Christian people who no longer celebrate holidays like Christmas, Halloween, New Years, etc. because of specific commands in the bible. Instead, they celebrate the holy celebrations that are in the bible. I've been looking into this a lot and have learned a whole lot of information and facts that I never knew about Chrismas and the bible as well. Just wanted to see if there are more out there. Have you read PaganChristianity? ~ ? It is a very well researched and documented book on the origins of what we call modern Christianity. I don't live by this book or promote everything in it, but it is a must read for all "Christians" in my opinion. We must think and learn for ourselves and that means reading and studying different beliefs other than your "denominations."
We do still celebrate "Christmas" by giving gifts and dinner, but I don't really decorate anymore or promote it as Jesus' actual birthday. The same goes for Easter, but not the truth of Passover and Resurrection.
In my opinion I would say be carefule with the Hebrew Roots movements. Read Galatians. Even Jesus broke the "Laws" on a few occasions to show that He is the root of the New Promise, which is an inward, spiritual belief that we must grasp and trust in. I believe that is why Jesus prohesied about the temple being destroyed, which it was, to show us that God no longer dwells in buildings or certain rules, or certain days, but inside each one of us. The Old was done away with to bring the full truth of Jesus, living inside of us. No longer about following a define set of rules, but living according to His -Jesus' words of Loving God and our fellow man, Love truly fulfills all of the commandments. As I mentioned, my sister ending up giving up this movement after more intense study. There are some issues with it. Then again, there are issues with every denomination and belief system. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can with the knowledge and information we have. I believe God will look into our hearts and know.
Exactly! Everything must land on Jesus only. Not man's denominations or theology or set of doctrines. I must say that what I thought I knew is a vapor and it is gone, and I only want to know Jesus ONLY anymore. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | TyE - 2014-10-13 12:47 PM
oija - 2014-10-13 12:12 PM TyE - 2014-10-13 11:19 AM Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 6:21 AM Don't want to start a debate or argument, just want to know if there are any others out there that do this. This past year I've come across a lot of Christian people who no longer celebrate holidays like Christmas, Halloween, New Years, etc. because of specific commands in the bible. Instead, they celebrate the holy celebrations that are in the bible. I've been looking into this a lot and have learned a whole lot of information and facts that I never knew about Chrismas and the bible as well. Just wanted to see if there are more out there. Have you read PaganChristianity? ~ ? It is a very well researched and documented book on the origins of what we call modern Christianity. I don't live by this book or promote everything in it, but it is a must read for all "Christians" in my opinion. We must think and learn for ourselves and that means reading and studying different beliefs other than your "denominations."
We do still celebrate "Christmas" by giving gifts and dinner, but I don't really decorate anymore or promote it as Jesus' actual birthday. The same goes for Easter, but not the truth of Passover and Resurrection.
In my opinion I would say be carefule with the Hebrew Roots movements. Read Galatians. Even Jesus broke the "Laws" on a few occasions to show that He is the root of the New Promise, which is an inward, spiritual belief that we must grasp and trust in. I believe that is why Jesus prohesied about the temple being destroyed, which it was, to show us that God no longer dwells in buildings or certain rules, or certain days, but inside each one of us. The Old was done away with to bring the full truth of Jesus, living inside of us. No longer about following a define set of rules, but living according to His -Jesus' words of Loving God and our fellow man, Love truly fulfills all of the commandments. As I mentioned, my sister ending up giving up this movement after more intense study. There are some issues with it. Then again, there are issues with every denomination and belief system. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can with the knowledge and information we have. I believe God will look into our hearts and know.
Have you heard of the Red Letter Christian Movement? It's interesting. :)
http://www.redletterchristians.org/ | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-10-13 11:40 AM rodeomom13 - 2014-10-13 10:46 AM Give it time... Christmas will soon become politically incorrect and we will be labeled religious zealouts for celebrating it. Stores will no longer be aloud to put up decorations, Christmas Carols will be outlawed. The loudmouth Liberals who are offended for the minority who don't believe are getting away with everything else, it's just a matter of time. I hope I'm not around to see it as I agree with you.
I was thinking the same thing, everything has changed so much and this is so sad to think that they could take our Christmas away from us.  | |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
| oija - 2014-10-13 12:49 PM TyE - 2014-10-13 12:47 PM oija - 2014-10-13 12:12 PM TyE - 2014-10-13 11:19 AM Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 6:21 AM Don't want to start a debate or argument, just want to know if there are any others out there that do this. This past year I've come across a lot of Christian people who no longer celebrate holidays like Christmas, Halloween, New Years, etc. because of specific commands in the bible. Instead, they celebrate the holy celebrations that are in the bible. I've been looking into this a lot and have learned a whole lot of information and facts that I never knew about Chrismas and the bible as well. Just wanted to see if there are more out there. Have you read PaganChristianity? ~ ? It is a very well researched and documented book on the origins of what we call modern Christianity. I don't live by this book or promote everything in it, but it is a must read for all "Christians" in my opinion. We must think and learn for ourselves and that means reading and studying different beliefs other than your "denominations."
We do still celebrate "Christmas" by giving gifts and dinner, but I don't really decorate anymore or promote it as Jesus' actual birthday. The same goes for Easter, but not the truth of Passover and Resurrection.
In my opinion I would say be carefule with the Hebrew Roots movements. Read Galatians. Even Jesus broke the "Laws" on a few occasions to show that He is the root of the New Promise, which is an inward, spiritual belief that we must grasp and trust in. I believe that is why Jesus prohesied about the temple being destroyed, which it was, to show us that God no longer dwells in buildings or certain rules, or certain days, but inside each one of us. The Old was done away with to bring the full truth of Jesus, living inside of us. No longer about following a define set of rules, but living according to His -Jesus' words of Loving God and our fellow man, Love truly fulfills all of the commandments. As I mentioned, my sister ending up giving up this movement after more intense study. There are some issues with it. Then again, there are issues with every denomination and belief system. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can with the knowledge and information we have. I believe God will look into our hearts and know. Have you heard of the Red Letter Christian Movement? It's interesting. : ) http://www.redletterchristians.org/
No, I haven't heard of that site. Thank You!! I will check it out!! | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| GLP - 2014-10-13 6:38 AM
As my kids have become adults and our parents are aging and some in ill health, our whole family has realized the reason we love the holidays is the chance to see each other, eat good food, drink my FIL's version of eggnog and laugh. One side exchanges very few gifts and I think this year we are going homemade or not any presents. The other side exchanges gifts but that is not the focal point of the day. I hope this thread continues because I find other peoples' views very interesting whether I agree or not.
I agree with this...I hate how commercialized the holidays have gotten and how they are all about BUY, BUY, BUY!!! (Wal-Mart has Christmas decorations up right now) but other than that, I LOVE the holidays and seeing everyone and the festivities. My husband's family still wants there to be a TON of presents for the kids, but I am not about that and am ambivalent at best about this idea. My kids don't need to be all excited about Christmas because "PRESENTS!!!!" but to enjoy the entire experience. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1549
Location: Southwest Louisiana | Thanks for the replies. I just ordered that book TyE and am looking forward to reading it. And I didn't know the way of thinking that I'm talking about even had a label, Hebrew Roots movement. I've never even heard of it. I looked it up and everything mentioned is exactly what I've been learning about lately. Honestly, I don't feel it's for me. My husband is starting to get into it, but I just don't feel a pull towards it. I do feel differently about Christmas a many things we deem religious these days, but aren't, but I lean more towards the thought that Jesus wants us to know Him in our hearts and lives, whether we have Christmas trees or live in succas for a week during the feast of trumpets. Thank you all for replying. It's really, really helped me today. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Some other good books:
Archaeology--Light on the Bible
Encyclopedia of Christian Theology
Jesus through Pagan Eyes
Misquoting Jesus
The Old Ones in the Old Book
Saving Jesus from the Church
Saint Benedict on the Freeway
Blue Like Jazz
Stations of the Sun: A History of the Ritual Year in Britain
The Golden Bough
Theology of many religions is of particular interest to me. If you have questions or want books (some in PDF format) let me know. I am Christian, just not of a particular denomination. I teach Bible as Literature classes at the college level and am a medievalist.
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 Veteran
Posts: 142
| We decided last year just to try and focus more on Jesus. We did really cute resurrection eggs in our easter egg hunt for the kids and no easter bunny and just really focused on the incarnation at Christmas time with lots of Bible stories, and family time.
I think you have to be careful with too literal understanding of the Bible as so much of it is esoteric..and also trying to understand it outside of the tradition it was written in.
True Jesus didnt come to set up a religion, but he did start a community of believers and promised to be with them till the end of the ages leading them into all truth and into proper worship which is revealed, not invented - so I do get skeptical when these spring up groups come promoting these ideas which are usually filled with half truths, historical inaccuracies and out of context Biblical proof texting.
Here's a more detailed article debunking some of the pagan-christian myths that are being pushed -
http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/the-pagan-origins-of-christmas/ | |
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  Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | I won't be anymore. I grew up celebrating it as Christ's birth, then learned after studying that it's truly not his birth. Also learned that there is no where in the bible that states his actual birthdate, which makes sense since it's the fact that he died for us that's important. I left my beliefs for a while and have since returned, so, no I won't be celebrating it. But, I do love family getting together to enjoy each others company, so I will be having a "family appreciation day" so that we can do that.
And halloween, don't get me started. Even before I studied the bible I did not celebrate it. It has never set well with me.
One thing I've learned is just because everyone else does it, doesn't make it right. | |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| rodeomom13 - 2014-10-13 11:46 AM Give it time... Christmas will soon become politically incorrect and we will be labeled religious zealouts for celebrating it. Stores will no longer be aloud to put up decorations, Christmas Carols will be outlawed. The loudmouth Liberals who are offended for the minority who don't believe are getting away with everything else, it's just a matter of time.
it almost is already happy ho;iday not christmas no navity nothing that relate to our lord
theyare almost ther | |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | We celebrate it for the meaning it is the birth of our savior and this life that he gave for our salvation | |
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| Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 3:38 PM Thanks for the replies. I just ordered that book TyE and am looking forward to reading it. And I didn't know the way of thinking that I'm talking about even had a label, Hebrew Roots movement. I've never even heard of it. I looked it up and everything mentioned is exactly what I've been learning about lately. Honestly, I don't feel it's for me. My husband is starting to get into it, but I just don't feel a pull towards it. I do feel differently about Christmas a many things we deem religious these days, but aren't, but I lean more towards the thought that Jesus wants us to know Him in our hearts and lives, whether we have Christmas trees or live in succas for a week during the feast of trumpets. Thank you all for replying. It's really, really helped me today.
I think you will find the book very interesting. I will say it has a lot of information even down to the history of choir robes and such. I found some of it a little "much," but interesting none the less. Just take your time and keep Jesus at the center.
Also thank you Oija for the book list. I am familiar with some of them, but will keep the list. What is a medievalist? The teaching, now that sound's like an interesting "job!"
I recently read "An Outsider's Guide to the Gospel" by Mick Mooney~ It is a very good read and is spot on in some parts imo, but other parts I am still digesting and praying/thinking about. The book has nothing to do with Christmas or origins, just a different look at what the Gospel is/could be. I would say some controversial parts especially if you are a member of a mainstream denomination/church.
Jesus Has left the Building~Vieira-- interesting as well.
www.austin-sparks.net is a great site with all his books free. His wrtings are not at all like the above authors, but more of a teaching type. He left mainstream "church" years and years ago, and has an amazing insight into true "body" life as well as many other subjects.
I say proceed with caution when reading any man's/woman's writings and pray about each of them.
Great subject and posts! | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | TyE - 2014-10-14 10:52 AM
Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 3:38 PM Thanks for the replies. I just ordered that book TyE and am looking forward to reading it. And I didn't know the way of thinking that I'm talking about even had a label, Hebrew Roots movement. I've never even heard of it. I looked it up and everything mentioned is exactly what I've been learning about lately. Honestly, I don't feel it's for me. My husband is starting to get into it, but I just don't feel a pull towards it. I do feel differently about Christmas a many things we deem religious these days, but aren't, but I lean more towards the thought that Jesus wants us to know Him in our hearts and lives, whether we have Christmas trees or live in succas for a week during the feast of trumpets. Thank you all for replying. It's really, really helped me today.
I think you will find the book very interesting. I will say it has a lot of information even down to the history of choir robes and such. I found some of it a little "much," but interesting none the less. Just take your time and keep Jesus at the center.
Also thank you Oija for the book list. I am familiar with some of them, but will keep the list. What is a medievalist? The teaching, now that sound's like an interesting "job!"
I recently read "An Outsider's Guide to the Gospel" by Mick Mooney~ It is a very good read and is spot on in some parts imo, but other parts I am still digesting and praying/thinking about. The book has nothing to do with Christmas or origins, just a different look at what the Gospel is/could be. I would say some controversial parts especially if you are a member of a mainstream denomination/church.
Jesus Has left the Building~Vieira-- interesting as well.
www.austin-sparks.net is a great site with all his books free. His wrtings are not at all like the above authors, but more of a teaching type. He left mainstream "church" years and years ago, and has an amazing insight into true "body" life as well as many other subjects.
I say proceed with caution when reading any man's/woman's writings and pray about each of them.
Great subject and posts!
I'm a professor. I specialize in Medieval Studies, particularly literature. This is what my Ph.D. is in. I teach at a community college, mostly writing classes, but also literature.
It is actually very useful in terms of teaching because I have a very good grounding in history and literature, including religion from the ancient world to modern times. I can easily see how theology developed and has changed over the last 2000 years, even what ideas we borrowed from the Egyptians, Greeks, etc. When students want to have a conversation about religion or are struggling, sometimes even questions about ISIS or how the bubonic plague in the 1340s compared to today's Ebola outbreak, I can help them think about it using the historical perspective to ground how people have often reacted to these types of events. I can lead them to older mystics who may give some comfort to their soul if they are having faith struggles. I generally tailor my teaching to each student, their questions, and their needs. What I will recommend for one I may not recommend for another. My wide reading in many fields helps me with this. I have a fairly encyclopedic understanding of art, history, philosophy, and literature for most of western culture. I read the bible through once a year, always in a different translation, checking things against my Greek/Hebrew Interlinear copy. My grounding in eastern cultures is a bit weaker.
I do tend to go my own path. I'm not a person with a simple faith but I am one with a very deep faith. I consider a very few things black and white. Everything else is gray. I do not decide on grey areas without careful study, sometimes years of reading and prayer. I'm also willing to change my mind based on new information. Like you I read each book with the idea that it has a particular bias that must be recalled. I feel that the more information I have the better decision I can make about my own beliefs. I don't like taking one viewpoint and running with it. It is also important to me NOT to tell someone what to think. I love talking with people and introducing them to sources, but I expect them to go their own journey about how they will believe, again especially in things I consider gray areas. I will say I consider many things gray that mainstream Christianity does not. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 621
Location: Arkansas | SG. - 2014-10-13 11:41 PM
We celebrate it for the meaning it is the birth of our savior and this life that he gave for our salvation
AMEN!!! I don't think the date is the important thing, some of you are missing the boat.....It's the fact that a day has been set aside to worship God for bringing His Son, Jesus, into this world in a miraculous virgin birth. Then Jesus led a sinless life so that he could be the perfect sacrifical lamb to pay for all our sins when He died on the cross. God raised Jesus from the dead, so we set aside a day, Easter, to celebrate this. Because i have chosen to ask God to forgive me of my sins and He chooses to accept Jesus' blood spilled at the cross as payment for my sins i now am an adopted daughter of the most High King of Kings and Lord of Lords and it's a free gift available to anyone who chooses to do the same.
So yes this christian celebrates because she is so thankful for what the Lord has done for her. The dates aren't important it's what's in the "heart" that's important to Him.
Edited by moorehorses 2014-10-14 12:11 PM
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Blessed
Location: Here | moorehorses - 2014-10-14 12:09 PM SG. - 2014-10-13 11:41 PM We celebrate it for the meaning it is the birth of our savior and this life that he gave for our salvation AMEN!!! I don't think the date is the important thing, some of you are missing the boat.....It's the fact that a day has been set aside to worship God for bringing His Son, Jesus, into this world in a miraculous virgin birth. Then Jesus led a sinless life so that he could be the perfect sacrifical lamb to pay for all our sins when He died on the cross. God raised Jesus from the dead, so we set aside a day, Easter, to celebrate this. Because i have chosen to ask God to forgive me of my sins and He chooses to accept Jesus' blood spilled at the cross as payment for my sins i now am an adopted daughter of the most High King of Kings and Lord of Lords and it's a free gift available to anyone who chooses to do the same. So yes this christian celebrates because she is so thankful for what the Lord has done for her. The dates aren't important it's what's in the "heart" that's important to Him.
THANK YOU!!! for explaining it so much better than I did... It is simply a designated date. The actual date isn't what is important it is honoring the event  | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RodeoCowgirl4u - 2014-10-13 3:36 PM GLP - 2014-10-13 6:38 AM As my kids have become adults and our parents are aging and some in ill health, our whole family has realized the reason we love the holidays is the chance to see each other, eat good food, drink my FIL's version of eggnog and laugh. One side exchanges very few gifts and I think this year we are going homemade or not any presents. The other side exchanges gifts but that is not the focal point of the day. I hope this thread continues because I find other peoples' views very interesting whether I agree or not. I agree with this...I hate how commercialized the holidays have gotten and how they are all about BUY, BUY, BUY!!! (Wal-Mart has Christmas decorations up right now ) but other than that, I LOVE the holidays and seeing everyone and the festivities. My husband's family still wants there to be a TON of presents for the kids, but I am not about that and am ambivalent at best about this idea. My kids don't need to be all excited about Christmas because "PRESENTS!!!!" but to enjoy the entire experience.
We use gifts to make a point. 3 gifts, just like the wise men gave 3 gifts. And we encourage aunts/uncles/grandparents to limit it to 1 so maybe they won't get overwhelmed and will remember where stuff came from. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | SG. - 2014-10-14 12:23 PM
moorehorses - 2014-10-14 12:09 PM SG. - 2014-10-13 11:41 PM We celebrate it for the meaning it is the birth of our savior and this life that he gave for our salvation AMEN!!! I don't think the date is the important thing, some of you are missing the boat.....It's the fact that a day has been set aside to worship God for bringing His Son, Jesus, into this world in a miraculous virgin birth. Then Jesus led a sinless life so that he could be the perfect sacrifical lamb to pay for all our sins when He died on the cross. God raised Jesus from the dead, so we set aside a day, Easter, to celebrate this. Because i have chosen to ask God to forgive me of my sins and He chooses to accept Jesus' blood spilled at the cross as payment for my sins i now am an adopted daughter of the most High King of Kings and Lord of Lords and it's a free gift available to anyone who chooses to do the same. So yes this christian celebrates because she is so thankful for what the Lord has done for her. The dates aren't important it's what's in the "heart" that's important to Him.
First off, I celebrate Christmas and so does my family. It's my favorite holiday because of everything mentioned. That being said, the OP expressed a genuine concern over whether we should celebrate at all because biblically there is no command to do so. The Old Testament is clear on Jewish holidays and exactly when they should be celebrated. The Bible gives the story of Jesus birth, life and death but does not command us to celebrate, only to accept him. The only specific acts given are communion and baptism. Thus many people trying to be true to the biblical account do not celebrate. It's a spirit of the law vs the letter of the law issue. It's most certainly a legitimate concern. People will constantly fall on either side based on whether they put faith or their literal reading of the Bible first. Sometimes more information and prayer helps people decide what they should practice. She could believe everything you just said about Christ and still think that practicing Christmas was wrong based on conviction and study. I believe that is the dilemma she is trying to solve and for which she does not have an answer. But if her new knowledge sets her ill at ease, she will feel better about her final decision after turning over a few rocks. Most people I know when they encounter do end up deciding continuing to celebrate. We should not judge any honest attempt to live out our faiths when it is approached with general concern and love for Christ. Edited for spelling.
Edited by oija 2014-10-14 12:57 PM
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| oija - 2014-10-13 10:20 AM Rocket'sMagicGirl - 2014-10-13 9:15 AM Oija, I believe we are talking about the same thing. Like I said, I'm very new to this and don't really know which way to go at this point. The things I'm learning are facts, so it's not like it's off the wall stuff or someone opinion. But then again, some of it just sounds so crazy! lol. The more I look into what God actually commands us to do, and realizing that hardly anyone (including myself) does these things, it's just hard to wrap my mind around. But now that I know these things, how can I go back to living like I always have? Should I go completely against what's normal these days, and follows His commands exactly like the book says? If I just celebrate Christmas like I always have, I'll feel guilty now, like i'm going directly agains His commands.
Rocket, my sister did not celebrate Christmas in a traditional way for a long time. She still saw it as a reason to get together with family but wanted to celebrate Chanukah instead, Feast of Thrones, Trumpets, etc. She would not buy presents or have a tree but attend family celebrations. She was okay with us getting her and her family gifts and would buy for us (that is still a Chanukah tradition ). She was primarily worried about the date and many things about Christmas itself that can be traced back to pagan holidays. The two links that you point out actually recognize this. To make a long story short, Christ lived and died in the period 0-33 AD. Prior to that time and until Christianity as a religion really took hold (around 300 AD ), paganism was the going thing. Pagans celebrated holidays based on the turning of the season. What we consider the first day of winter or the winters solstice, Dec 21-22, was regarded as a particularly important time because the days would get longer again, more daylight. This was reviewed as symbolic of rebirth. So most cultures celebrated it, some on the exact day and others on days very close. In this case the birth of Mithras and Apollo were celebrated on the 24th and 25th of December. When Pope Gregory the Great saw that many people did not want to give up their holidays as much for practical reasons as religious one. (Everybody likes a day off from work and an excuse to celebrate with friends and family ) This winter festival provided that. He thought it would be easier to evangelize these pagans if the day didn't change but the reason for celebrating did. The same was often done with churches. There are many European churches built on the sites of old pagan holy places. Have the Muslims not done the same thing with the Dome of the Rock built over the site of the destroyed temple in Jerusalem? What you must decide for yourself is whether the reason is more important than the day. We honestly do not know what day Jesus was born on, though it was more likely in July or August (one reason some Christians celebrate in July ). We can pretty clearly definitively state based on historical evidence that he was NOT born on the 24th or 25th. Imagine adopting a child though and you did not know what day they were born on. Would you not invent a day still to celebrate? Perhaps the day you adopted them instead. This need to celebrate is human. The need to celebrate what we believe in is even more human. You must decide for yourself if the 'reason for the season' is more important than the connections with early paganism and idolatry or not. More reading and prayer will help you, but this is a decision everyone must make for themselves. Do realize other people in your family may be upset. But it is your life and your choice.
Just bumping this part of the post back up for anyone interested in reading it again, so that they might understand the dilema for the original poster of the thread.
And I apologize if my conversation between Oija and myself has thrown the original question off the track, but thank you Oija for the information and your thoughts and I have enjoyed it!
Edited by TyE 2014-10-14 1:39 PM
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Posts: 1549
Location: Southwest Louisiana | oija - 2014-10-14 12:54 PM SG. - 2014-10-14 12:23 PM moorehorses - 2014-10-14 12:09 PM SG. - 2014-10-13 11:41 PM We celebrate it for the meaning it is the birth of our savior and this life that he gave for our salvation AMEN!!! I don't think the date is the important thing, some of you are missing the boat.....It's the fact that a day has been set aside to worship God for bringing His Son, Jesus, into this world in a miraculous virgin birth. Then Jesus led a sinless life so that he could be the perfect sacrifical lamb to pay for all our sins when He died on the cross. God raised Jesus from the dead, so we set aside a day, Easter, to celebrate this. Because i have chosen to ask God to forgive me of my sins and He chooses to accept Jesus' blood spilled at the cross as payment for my sins i now am an adopted daughter of the most High King of Kings and Lord of Lords and it's a free gift available to anyone who chooses to do the same. So yes this christian celebrates because she is so thankful for what the Lord has done for her. The dates aren't important it's what's in the "heart" that's important to Him. First off, I celebrate Christmas and so does my family. It's my favorite holiday because of everything mentioned. That being said, the OP expressed a genuine concern over whether we should celebrate at all because biblically there is no command to do so. The Old Testament is clear on Jewish holidays and exactly when they should be celebrated. The Bible gives the story of Jesus birth, life and death but does not command us to celebrate, only to accept him. The only specific acts given are communion and baptism. Thus many people trying to be true to the biblical account do not celebrate. It's a spirit of the law vs the letter of the law issue. It's most certainly a legitimate concern. People will constantly fall on either side based on whether they put faith or their literal reading of the Bible first. Sometimes more information and prayer helps people decide what they should practice. She could believe everything you just said about Christ and still think that practicing Christmas was wrong based on conviction and study. I believe that is the dilemma she is trying to solve and for which she does not have an answer. But if her new knowledge sets her ill at ease, she will feel better about her final decision after turning over a few rocks. Most people I know when they encounter do end up deciding continuing to celebrate. We should not judge any honest attempt to live out our faiths when it is approached with general concern and love for Christ. Edited for spelling.
This.
I DO believe in God and Jesus and the sacrafice. I'm more than thankful and remember each day of my life. But there is so much information we assume to be true that just isn't. I want to go through my life following facts, or at least learning more about that foundation so I can come to my own conclusions, not just jump in the pool because everyone else decided to take a swim.
Thanks everyone who commented. I appreciate the help and knowledge.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 621
Location: Arkansas | IMO this is the greatest commandment Jesus gave us. 1 Corinthians 13:1-13
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,a but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;b 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
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Veteran
Posts: 104
Location: The black prairie of Mississippi | In my family we try to keep it as simple as possible. Yes I put up a tree and yes I decorate my house a little, but the true meaning of the season is the celebration of Christ's birth. It's a time to reflect on the year, show your family you love them, and eat good food. I'm Southern though, so we celebrate Tuesday by eating good food.
We don't blow it out of proportion, I don't go into debt buying presents, and everyone has a good time. I think it's all in how you celebrate it. If it feels stressful and you're loosing your mind trying to do everything then stop. Take a look around. Focus on what's important and let the rest go. | |
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 Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| I was taught we should celebrate the birth, death and resurrection of Christ daily, not just on a certain day, so no, we don't really celebrate it as a "Christian" holiday. More like a Santa day and Easter is for the easter bunny. | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | kmcsunshine - 2014-10-19 4:43 PM I was taught we should celebrate the birth, death and resurrection of Christ daily, not just on a certain day, so no, we don't really celebrate it as a "Christian" holiday. More like a Santa day and Easter is for the easter bunny.
Wow you said it so well, thats the way we look at it here to.. | |
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Any Christians NOT celebrate Christmas?