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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
   
Location: Dubach, LA | Over the course of 20 years, I've had 5 horses injected (hocks, feet, stifles, SI, shoulder) by 3 veternarians in 2 states. Without exception, those injections have required time off from work (varying from two to five days). My horses have been chiro'd by 2 vets turned chiro, 2 human chiros turned equine, and 1 layman that took a course. Without exception, those adjustments have required time off from work (varying from a day to three days). So what do you guys think about the vets and chiros that turn up at barrel races to inject and adjust and send you on your merry way to make a run? |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | They sound like traveling snake oil salesmen. Unless they have a good rep that you know about, I'd not let them near your horses. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | Time off aside, I have an issue with injecting in a non-sterile enviornment. There is no way that places such as public wash racks in high traffic areas are an optimal place to be doing invasive procedures. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Injecting right before a run isn't really going to do much good. The steroids take a few days to get the inflammation out. Heck the horse might even be sore from the injection.... This is assuming they are injecting the typically used steroids and not something unethical...
I could see getting one done after the run as you are leaving so that someone won't have to travel to a clinic later. Ie saving themselves a trip. Still not my cup of tea unless I know the vet is good... I won't use just anyone to inject.
Fwiw, the trotters race the next day after joint injections. Not what I would do, but that's coming from a track vet so I assume it's true. |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
 
Location: In a happy place | I had a friend that had one injected at a barrel race in Abilene a few years back. It was a dirty mess. I don't know what kept him from getting an infection. She waited until after she ran to have him injected. Just don't think this is a good idea. |
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 Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | I say no way, no how am I getting my horses injected at a show. I would do the chiro but not before I ran. It's like throwing money down the drain. They absolutely need days off, depending on the procedure, before going back to work. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
| Sounds scary to me to have one injected at a race. I like to let them rest, though I know people that inject and keep on working and wonder why the horse gets worse. HMMMMMM |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Unless it is an emergency, I don't let anyone but my vet touch my horse for invasive procedures like injections. I have used chiro's that say time off and others that say ride immediately. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | No way would I be letting some vet that I dont know inject my horse at a barrel race, and I have only one Chiro that I will let adjust my horse at a race because I know him. |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm...
Edited by CanCan 2014-10-13 7:01 PM
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I was just talking about injecting horses, they imject hocks and tell you no,riding for a few days. people get injected like in a knee they tell you nothing. Go figure. |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | I've not heard of injecting at races, but we have a fairly well known equine chiro that comes to some of them. But I think it is more of a travel thing than anything else because we don't have many equine chiros on the area. So if someone has a horse that needs work and he is going to be at a barrel race, they can have that horse there with them as he travels to some of the smaller towns that have barrel races too. |
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 Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | My general rule of thumb on the chiro at races is no.
But I do think there are some adjustments that can help. Think about yourself at the chiro. There are plenty of adjustments that take time to work and can hurt like heck. But there are also a few that you can get immediate relief from. Horses are the same.
As far as injections, joints, not a chance in hell. |
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 Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | I had a horse get injected at a race...but we were DONE with the weekend, she sat for 3 hours before I loaded up, and we were close to home. And then she had that whole week off. I knew the vet, was comfortable and he did it away from the show. I needed her done and instead of waiting a month to get her done, I could do it right there and give her time off and be better off time wise. No infection happened, nothing bad period.
On the chiro thing, this is a funny topic as my good friend is a vet that does chiro and acupuncture work. She is not that big of a fan of chiro during a show, HOWEVER, Texans think SO DIFFERENTLY than Californians and she has found that in order to build her client base she has to go to the big shows. But I think what she is doing is the best option. At ANHA, she saw my horses before I ran and did acupuncture on the ones that needed it. I got there two hours before I was going to saddle just so they could see her and then rest. And then she checked them throughout the weekend and before I went home. It isn't ideal and I MUCH prefer her to work on them at home and she does. But for her to build her base and prove herself, it seems the only way she is getting her foot in the door to show how good she is here in Texas.
California is a different story. The mindset is a complete 180-truly.
Edited by sassy&tessa 2014-10-14 8:08 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Professional athletes give time off for themselves to have injections and chiro work. If they are hurting and need it but can't work rest into their schedule they normally inject and chiro anyway to ease the pain.
Ideally I want mine to rest but when that is not an option I'd rather them not be in pain.
Although I do feel for chiro adjustments to actually hold you need to get the muscles loosened up and out of trauma so they can actually "hold" the adjustment.
I don't really agree with adjusting or injecting at a show but when one hast to go one hast to go. |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | I kind of thought chiros/vets doing these sort of procedures at races was because so many people find out that horses are off the day of a race. I mean I don't know how many times I've ridden my horse day after day for me to take him into warm ups at a race and he's a little off, I love finding out somethings wrong that day! I've never had anyone besides people I know touch my horses and firmly believe in that, unless they are some amazing individual that I would otherwise never stand a chance getting an appointment with.
I had a horse strain his suspensory at a barrel race. Thankfully my chiro/ex vet was there with her magnawave machine. She adjusted him and magwaved him right there on the spot immediately following the race he hurt himself in.
I didn't know people would immediately race following any sort of body manipulation procedures or injections? some people are so darn desperate to make that run on their horse that they will do anything huh.
some people really grind my gears!
ETA: I've always been told to take the rest of the day off. Then resume working the next day with long and low exercises for 1-2 weeks. I've dealt with a few chiros and this has always been the same
Edited by Crowned Image 2014-10-14 10:47 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | I do what my vet tells me. Some have said run the next day, all the way to 2 weeks off. It really depends on how bad the horse was, where you are injecting, with what, how many you are doing at once, etc. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | CanCan - 2014-10-13 6:47 PM I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm...
I know who you're talking about and will not use him. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | SC Wrangler - 2014-10-13 5:51 PM
Time off aside, I have an issue with injecting in a non-sterile enviornment. There is no way that places such as public wash racks in high traffic areas are an optimal place to be doing invasive procedures.
This. ^^^^^ |
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Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-14 11:44 AM CanCan - 2014-10-13 6:47 PM I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm... I know who you're talking about and will not use him.
And I agree with Three 4 Luck. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-10-14 12:17 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-14 11:44 AM CanCan - 2014-10-13 6:47 PM I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm... I know who you're talking about and will not use him.
I'm not trying to open a can of worms... but may I ask why? Please feel free to PM. I'm not trying to start bashing anyone, just curious as to why the negative experiences. I've never used him, but have wondered if he really is that great to have as many people lined up as he always does. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 621
Location: Arkansas | I was told he also makes farm calls to the big name riders barns while he is out traveling and that is why you don't see them standing in line to see him at the show. They have enough horses in their barns to make it worth his while to go to them, while most of us only have the one or two hobby horses. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Many years ago, (about 25) we were at cutting horse trainer Bobby Nelson's place when Graham Boyd, the father of Horse Chiropractic, was working on his horses. A woman from Washington had sent a great horse down for Graham to work on that had been lame for over a year. After treatment, that horse walked out of the stall sound. I had never seen anything quite like that. In the end, I ended up buying that horse and we showed him sound until his mid twentys. Over the years I had Graham and later his son, work on a horse of mine from time to time. We always gave them at least a few days off for the adjustment to settle in.
No on joint injections outside of a clinic environment.
Edited by winwillows 2014-10-14 1:16 PM
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 Vodka for Lunch
Location: Lala Land | I would only have my vet that knows my horse inject, and I don't think I would chiro at a barrel race unless I knew the chiro was very reputable and only after I was finished for the weekend. |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Longneck - 2014-10-14 12:26 PM sorrel horse ranch - 2014-10-14 12:17 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-14 11:44 AM CanCan - 2014-10-13 6:47 PM I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm... I know who you're talking about and will not use him.
WHOA, NELLIE!!! I am NOT talking about a vet or chiro. I'm talking about the racers that use them. Those that go against the industry standards to inject or adjust and run in the same day or the next day are the ones that interest me. I totally understand the motivation of the vet/chiro. I just want to understand the motivation of the racer that chooses this option. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | CanCan - 2014-10-14 1:49 PM Longneck - 2014-10-14 12:26 PM sorrel horse ranch - 2014-10-14 12:17 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-14 11:44 AM CanCan - 2014-10-13 6:47 PM I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm... I know who you're talking about and will not use him.
People are being led to believe, if not told outright, that this is ok. So yeah, it IS about the practitioner as well as the horse owner. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | CanCan - 2014-10-14 1:49 PM Longneck - 2014-10-14 12:26 PM sorrel horse ranch - 2014-10-14 12:17 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-14 11:44 AM CanCan - 2014-10-13 6:47 PM I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm... I know who you're talking about and will not use him.
I'm just assuming that they believe the chiro/injections must be better to do them and then run versus not taking the time to haul to a vet at another time. I don't agree with it, but maybe the owners don't know otherwise. I had my horse's stifle injected in mid July and the vet told me stay off him for 3-4 days and then resume work as normal. That was a performance vet. I had a close friend get stifles injected by a non performance horse vet and he told her to resume work as normal without time off. She tried to argue with me that it was crazy to take time off. 
I know that I have taken my horse to a vet when I'm at a race, but the only injection he got were IM (Ichon/Adequan) and I believe that those are most effective within a few hours... but they weren't given directly in the joint.
If I feel as if something is wrong and there is a vet right there on location I will inquire as to what he/she might believe is wrong. I wouldn't inject or adjust unless it was inevasive.
I realize you aren't trying to slander a vet; my intent wasn't to do that either. I was just curious as to why some people avoid him all together. Assuming it is for more reason than just not wanting to inject/adjust at a race and then run again in within 24 hours.
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Longneck - 2014-10-14 2:24 PM CanCan - 2014-10-14 1:49 PM Longneck - 2014-10-14 12:26 PM sorrel horse ranch - 2014-10-14 12:17 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-14 11:44 AM CanCan - 2014-10-13 6:47 PM I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm... I know who you're talking about and will not use him.
If I feel as if something is wrong and there is a vet right there on location I will inquire as to what he/she might believe is wrong. I wouldn't inject or adjust unless it was inevasive.
I realize you aren't trying to slander a vet; my intent wasn't to do that either. I was just curious as to why some people avoid him all together. Assuming it is for more reason than just not wanting to inject/adjust at a race and then run again in within 24 hours.
People stand in line and horses are run through like cattle with minimal evaluation. I'm not saying he's bad at WHAT HE DOES, but I'm not going to use someone who thinks those practices are ok. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-14 2:42 PM Longneck - 2014-10-14 2:24 PM CanCan - 2014-10-14 1:49 PM Longneck - 2014-10-14 12:26 PM sorrel horse ranch - 2014-10-14 12:17 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-14 11:44 AM CanCan - 2014-10-13 6:47 PM I wondered if I was just old school and behind the times. The vet at the races I go to in Tx, Ar, and OK stays busy. He makes thousands a day injecting and chiropracting. Sometimes he has a line of horses 6 or 7 deep. He doesn't have a home clinic but a huge following at races. I. Just. Don't. Know. Edited to add: This thread is not a vet-bashing thread. I just question the knowledge base of the girls that use him. I spent some days close to his work area once and never saw any "big name" or "well-known" racers in his line. Just makes me go hmmmmm... I know who you're talking about and will not use him.
If I feel as if something is wrong and there is a vet right there on location I will inquire as to what he/she might believe is wrong. I wouldn't inject or adjust unless it was inevasive.
I realize you aren't trying to slander a vet; my intent wasn't to do that either. I was just curious as to why some people avoid him all together. Assuming it is for more reason than just not wanting to inject/adjust at a race and then run again in within 24 hours.
Thanks for the reply!! |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Thanks for the input. This is what I wanted. Dialogue. I wish someone who used these services would chime in and give us his or her reasons. Even the chiro could lead to harm if a major adjustment is made that strains the ligaments and puts the entire joint in an unstable position that needs time to calm from assymetrical inflammation at the site. Right or wrong?
Edited by CanCan 2014-10-14 7:54 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 920
| When I do injections I give more like 2 weeks off...it's a mental thing for me. I'm slightly needlephobic so I REALLY like to know they "set" in. Chiros are different. I did go to a show and had one horse done. He was a little out of whack and I went after my runs. I felt like it did make him feel better but it was a one time thing. When I do it normally I let them have a couple days off. I got done once and had felt wonderful that day. woke up with a crick in my neck only to have it go away in 2 days and I think I felt better than before. The ones getting it done at shows are in it for convenience and desperation more so maybe. The big names Probably have already lined their ducks in a row before they got there. That's why they have big names ;) |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I can tell you for me... I just recently went to the chiro myself. I definetely agree to a day or two off and I wouldnt ever run the same day as a chiro visit. Now I know what it feels like, it helped in the long run but I was sore, stiff and just didnt feel great the day of my appt and sometimes the day after. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 920
| WHen I had mine done at the show he wasn't bad out. It was a minor adjustment and he got a massage with it. I don't think I would do it again because I worried about it at the time. He didn't seem to have any issues from doing it at the show though but now that I've had it done more I'm not comfortable doing it at a show and working one. |
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Hmmm. What do you say?