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 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
   
Location: Texas | We have a 6 yr old gelding that we raised. Actually, we raised him, his dam, grand dam and great grand sire. His momma was the sweetest, easiest to handle horse that we have ever had. He was always a kicker. If you startled him or really just anything, he wanted to kick. We have had several people ride him, but if anything happens he will buck. About a year ago, we let them buck him with a flank, hoping that he would just give it up. He didn't buck hard enough for that job so they started riding him again. Even tried roping off of him, but you can never tell when he is going to crank it up. He shys from anything. The culvert. Bushes. Birds. You name it. He would shy at the culvert every day. You would think that eventually he would get over it. I mentioned to my son about sending him to someone to do ranch work, but he said most of those guys want something they can depend on not bucking at any time. He thinks his mind might be too fragile. I don't want to send him down the road to be mistreated and I don't want anyone to get hurt. The thought of loading him on the kill truck does not appeal to me either, but do I have any other options? I cannot keep pouring more money into him. Cut my loses and bury him here on our place by his grandsire? |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | I wouldn't put him down......I'd find someone with experience in horses like him. Maybe a feedlot, or maybe he just needs to be ridden daily and taught a lesson each ride.
I had a gelding who was like that once, many many years ago. I sent him to my buddy, he had the gelding for 3 months....came back solid broke with no buck. He did a complete 180 with solid/everyday riding. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | i wouldn't put him down either....my mare is 15 yrs old (i got her at 10) and everytime you get on you better have your right foot in the stirrup and fast and not be digging for it or you will find out how hard the ground really is...lol
m
p.s.i love her crazy broncy ass.... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
| Have you had a vet or chiro go over him thoroughly? I know not all horses are in pain, but I would be curious as to whether or not he has something else going on. If I was in your situation and I found no health problems, I'd put him down. You are in a very difficulty situation and I'll pray for your decision.
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | I have a "home made" 7 year old mare that was dangerous to ride. Multiple vet checks never found anything.... I gave up on her a couple of months ago and decided to make her a pasture ornament.
Last week I took one horse with confirmed kissing spine to see the vet and decided to take the other one too for back x-rays. Low and behold - she has kissing spine too. I finally have the explanation I have been looking for all these years. While this is bad news at least I know why she acted the way she did...
Also, have you tested him for epm?
I own 4 horses - one is retired, two have kissing spine and will probably be pasture pets from now on. I only have 10 acres of rocks.... I know how you feel. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Vet check Chiro check... Send him to someone for a while... Maybe lease him to someone to ride... Patience patience patience. Mine is almost 9 and still acts likes he's 3... Some take longer to mature... Don't put him down. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| It sounds like you have put the time into him. If I couldn't find a treatable pain related problem, I would put him down. No animal is worth getting someone hurt or killed. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2161
Location: NW. Florida | What Whiteboy said. |
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 Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | if i was in your shoes i would probably do the same. I sent one thru a sale and never knew her fate.... i cant do it ever again.
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | How much TIME have you put into him? You didn't really say.
Sounds to me like he needs daily riding for months, to see if he snaps out of it. Some horses need lots of miles, work, and wet saddle blankets to figure it out. He's only 6. He's young.
Granted, he is your horse and you can do what you please with him. It would certainly be your choice and your right to put him down, if that was the best decision for you.
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 Expert
Posts: 2335
Location: IL | JMO, but I just had a mare that would buck randomly. I brought her to several vets and she checked out fine. I was at my wits end and decided to treat her for ulcers. She was only 8 and not your typical ulcer looking horse. She had not been hauled alot and has been sitting on pasture all summer. Low and behold after 5 days of ulcer treatment, she was a different horse. 2 weeks out she was to die for. No bucking or even humping up, her personality was better and she wasn't scared of everything. Try it, you never know. I started treating her with ranididtine.  |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | put him down...move on.... |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Have you looked into EPM, PSSM, Lymes, etc?
I also agree that he is still young. Some horses don't mentally or physically mature until they are 8yrs old. If you don't trust him then send him off to someone else that wants to cowboy him. I wouldn't put him down. Just be honest about what he is like and find someone willing to work with him. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Whiteboy - 2014-10-16 1:08 PM
It sounds like you have put the time into him. If I couldn't find a treatable pain related problem, I would put him down. No animal is worth getting someone hurt or killed.
I agree with this too. I live in WY where there are plenty of ranch jobs and feedlots. They don't want those kind of horses either. They have a job to do and I about guarantee they don't have health insurance, getting bucked off and hurt means the end of their income. I have a really hard time just finding someone to start my horses or ride one for another 30 that doesn't have a bit of an issue. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| That kicking thing is a deal breaker for me. Where I live if you send them to the local auction they end up in Mexico. I would put him down. No horse deserves to go to Mexico. |
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 The Calm before the Storm
Posts: 3822
Location: Missouri | Whiteboy - 2014-10-16 2:08 PM It sounds like you have put the time into him. If I couldn't find a treatable pain related problem, I would put him down. No animal is worth getting someone hurt or killed.
agree |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I am assuming you have had this horses checked out head to tail, lameness, soreness, ulcers etc.
There are a TON of really nice horses in the world that makes it really hard to deal with one that is an idiot! With that being said, horses that are "tough" will generally improve with a licken. One thing I will not tolerate is kicking, I had one double barrel me in the chest last fall, he was a new to us horse and would not leave the barn, I hit him with the lead rope and he got me- and though I'm not proud of it, that horse was beat within an inch of his life that day-however, there is never an offer to kick no matter how much you get after him. And before any of you get uptight about the butt whipping, I'm glad the horse kicked me and not my 8 year old son-I shudder at the thought of what would have happened if it would have been him! If this horse would have ever so much as thought about kicking again he probably would be coyote bait.
My point is, if there isn't even a slight amount of attitude improvement after a licken, get rid of them. I do know stories of some cowboys that take horses like him and whatever they do to them, is unknown, the horses normally come back, angels :) Maybe try to lay him down or always hobble him so he can't kick. I don't know...it's so hard to do, I wish you good wishes in your decision. |
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No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | When he was first started, we sent him for 30 days with someone who rides a lot of young horses for people. The day we went to pick him up, he bucked. (sigh) We hauled him and his 3/4 sister 250 miles to another guy who had a good reputation for starting horses. My nephew took him for several months. I went out to catch him a pasture and he was standing by another horse. As I walked up to him and put my hand on his neck he wheeled, kicked and ran off. He almost nailed me in the head. My son cannot afford to get hurt on him either. He has always had the kicking problem and has never been mistreated. This behavior has been going on for so long. We are too old to mess him and are frankly scared of him. It breaks my heart, but we can't keep spending money on him.
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | RocketPilot - 2014-10-16 3:58 PM When he was first started, we sent him for 30 days with someone who rides a lot of young horses for people. The day we went to pick him up, he bucked. (sigh) We hauled him and his 3/4 sister 250 miles to another guy who had a good reputation for starting horses. My nephew took him for several months. I went out to catch him a pasture and he was standing by another horse. As I walked up to him and put my hand on his neck he wheeled, kicked and ran off. He almost nailed me in the head. My son cannot afford to get hurt on him either. He has always had the kicking problem and has never been mistreated. This behavior has been going on for so long. We are too old to mess him and are frankly scared of him. It breaks my heart, but we can't keep spending money on him.
 it sounds like you know what needs to be done. One thing I've learned, is that no matter how nice a horses relatives are, sometimes there is a bad apple. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | First of all consider the fact that they are animals...and are just as predisposed to mental illness as any other living thing.
Sometimes letting them go on to greener pastures is the kindest thing that you can do for them and yourself. Once he leaves your hands you won't know how he's being handled...and often times someone that will take one on like that is looking for a cheap project and they aren't the kind of people that you would want handling a horse you ever cared about.
I have one that has been in the pasture for two years that will not see the winter. He's too dangerous to compete on and too expensive to maintain for just a riding horse... Tough, tough decision, but I felt better once I said it outloud and know that he won't ever be mistreated for something that he just can't help. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | RocketPilot - 2014-10-16 3:58 PM When he was first started, we sent him for 30 days with someone who rides a lot of young horses for people. The day we went to pick him up, he bucked. (sigh) We hauled him and his 3/4 sister 250 miles to another guy who had a good reputation for starting horses. My nephew took him for several months. I went out to catch him a pasture and he was standing by another horse. As I walked up to him and put my hand on his neck he wheeled, kicked and ran off. He almost nailed me in the head. My son cannot afford to get hurt on him either. He has always had the kicking problem and has never been mistreated. This behavior has been going on for so long. We are too old to mess him and are frankly scared of him. It breaks my heart, but we can't keep spending money on him.
That just sealed it for me, a horse that trys and wants to kick you would not have a place here with me and my family, I would just put him down are give him to someone that deals with problem horses, I had a filly that I raised and she was just a mean soul she would kick you just for the heck of it if she had the chance to and I did not trust her at all, told a race horse friend that I was thinking of putting her down he then try to buy her off of me and no I told him he could have her if he really wanted her he came and picked her up that afternoon, this was about 2 years ago and I never asked about her I really dont want to know, but I think he made a recept mare out of her{I guessed I spelled that right}. If you are scared of this gelding get rid of him are put him down. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Heart of Texas | Sounds like EPM or something. Have you tried a horse hair analysis? Something sounds not right. I have a hard time believing he's just plain evil so I have to think EMP, kissing spine, ulcers, something. If it is something incurable, at least you know when you put him down that it was the humane thing to do and not a frustrated motive. But from what I've heard those HHA can tell you some pretty amazing things. I have a stall waker that will walk a 12 ft diameter left circle in a 100 acre pasture and i'm curious if it's something he's "lacking" or just a weird tick that nobody can explain. But Good Luck! I wish you the best. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Can EPM cause a horse to kick with no provocation? I have had no experience with EPM, thankfully. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | GLP - 2014-10-16 4:56 PM Can EPM cause a horse to kick with no provocation? I have had no experience with EPM, thankfully.
I really dont think so, the horses that I knew that had EPM could hardley move fast enought to kick and run off. My mare sure didnt have EPM she was just a mean bit**,lol.. |
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | rachellyn80 - 2014-10-16 2:17 PM First of all consider the fact that they are animals...and are just as predisposed to mental illness as any other living thing.
Sometimes letting them go on to greener pastures is the kindest thing that you can do for them and yourself. Once he leaves your hands you won't know how he's being handled...and often times someone that will take one on like that is looking for a cheap project and they aren't the kind of people that you would want handling a horse you ever cared about.
I have one that has been in the pasture for two years that will not see the winter. He's too dangerous to compete on and too expensive to maintain for just a riding horse... Tough, tough decision, but I felt better once I said it outloud and know that he won't ever be mistreated for something that he just can't help.
well said! Sometimes thats the best answer. Its sad but heck i'm all for recycling horses too! |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| My gelding was broke at 2 he was kindest horse and all of a sudden the fall of 3 year old if you did not keep him worked everyday he would buck take him toa 2 or 3 day show first day he was a angel the longer show the worse he got. I had to,inject his hocks as a five year old he the got more reliable. The when my husband got sick imcoukd not,keep him ridden up he got worse after my husband died imstarted riding more he never as reliable one of the vets tested accupressure points he tested pos for ulcers, got him on omeprizole he turned in to a nonbucking angel. This did not fix his other problems but i am at this moment giving him oroquin an time will tell after i,finish with the meds i will do a week on omeprizole. before you put him down get 2 weeks of omeprizole get the compunded stuff and see what happens. If that does not fix it. I,dont know but if younhave kept him this long you must see some good in him. |
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I Need a Xanax!
Posts: 2774
| Sounds like you have done the right thing with him...like someone else said...horses can have mental illnesses too and he sounds to be off in the head pretty bad. The bucking is one thing but the kicking thing puts the nail in the coffin for me if he were mine. I'd put him down...don't sell him and don't keep putting time into him which only puts you in danger. If you kept messing with him and he hurt someone bad the guilt you'd feel KNOWING he was more than capable of that would be unbearable IMO. You would be doing the right thing to put him down and save yourself from danger and save him from a long life of possible abuse, starvation, or slaughter and the possibly of hurting someone else down the line. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 533
Location: Mississippi | Have him checked for PSSM. $35 @ Animal Genetics |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 927
Location: Iowa | You have to decide to 1. let someone else try him, and not knowing where he would go after that or 2. put him down and know he didn't suffer cruel treatment. A tough decision but only you know in your gut what is right for you and that horse. Not every horse can be fixed and there are enough bad ones out there. |
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 South Texas Hottie
Posts: 12130
Location: IM A DUDE!!!!!!! | haven't read all the replies
but if you don't want to put him down, maybe sell or give him to a rodeo company. Im sure they would take him off your hands for bucking stock
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
| I had one like that.. I sold her after she almost killed me and the vet. She was h&ll bent on hurting herself. Long story short she almost killed the next two owners and hurt them bad in the process. I saw her several months later at the killer sale. Some are just not right in the head. I let the person know that bought her she said it was me whatever. |
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No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | cowboynsouthtx81 - 2014-10-16 9:16 PM haven't read all the replies
but if you don't want to put him down, maybe sell or give him to a rodeo company. Im sure they would take him off your hands for bucking stock
We tried bucking him with the hope that he would buck good enough for rodeo stock or get it out of his system. Didn't happen. He doesn't buck hard enough to be good but he is smart enough to surprise you. You can never trust him. |
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No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | rowdy256 - 2014-10-16 9:46 PM I had one like that.. I sold her after she almost killed me and the vet. She was h&ll bent on hurting herself. Long story short she almost killed the next two owners and hurt them bad in the process. I saw her several months later at the killer sale. Some are just not right in the head. I let the person know that bought her she said it was me whatever.
This is what I am afraid of. I care too much about him to send him to the kill pen. If I gave his away, there is still nothing to say he still would not end up there. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | RocketPilot - 2014-10-16 10:10 PM rowdy256 - 2014-10-16 9:46 PM I had one like that.. I sold her after she almost killed me and the vet. She was h&ll bent on hurting herself. Long story short she almost killed the next two owners and hurt them bad in the process. I saw her several months later at the killer sale. Some are just not right in the head. I let the person know that bought her she said it was me whatever. This is what I am afraid of. I care too much about him to send him to the kill pen. If I gave his away, there is still nothing to say he still would not end up there.
Exactly and I can about gaurantee thats exactly where he would end up. No horse deserves that. Do the right thing for yourself and the horse and just put him down. That way you KNOW he will never be mistreated, nor will he hurt anybody. That is the kindest thing you can do. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1267
Location: Fort Worth, Texas | I have to admit that I didn't read all the comments, but I have to leave shortly and wanted to comment. I had a horse that would spook at ANYTHING! He occasionally would take advantage of that and buck & jump around after spooking. I switched his feed to Purina Ultium Competition, and he became a completely different horse. He stopped spooking at stuff. The main reason I switched him was his reaction to high protein feed, but the change he had after switching was amazing. I believe Geronabean also had success with switching to this feed with a horse. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-16 4:59 PM GLP - 2014-10-16 4:56 PM Can EPM cause a horse to kick with no provocation? I have had no experience with EPM, thankfully. I really dont think so, the horses that I knew that had EPM could hardley move fast enought to kick and run off. My mare sure didnt have EPM she was just a mean bit**,lol..
EPM has no absolutes. It can absolutely show in hundreds of different ways. We recently bought a very nice cutting trained three year old super cheap because he was waspy to the point of dangerous on the ground. Fantastic to ride and work cattle like a dream.....but, very unpredictable on the ground. I brought him home and did a Power Pac and then decided to try a round of ReBalance on him just to see if he would gain a little weight. He didn't look or travel like the EPM horses that we have seen, but five days into the treatment his mind had just melted and he is the sweetest little horse to be around. No more snorty, spooky, untrusting colt. You can go out to his pasture and catch him, pick up all of his feet, and even lift his tail straight up. Before treatment he acted like he might not even be halter broke and you couldn't get near his tail. |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | You know the answer, it might not be the answer you want, but you sound like you know it. give him a really special few weeks until a vet can come out and do it and bury him on your property. It's obvious you care about yourself and the well being of others to consciously let him leave your property knowing what he's capable of. The world needs more RocketPilots!
Edited by Crowned Image 2014-10-17 9:55 AM
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | Vegas By Storm - 2014-10-16 3:50 PM Whiteboy - 2014-10-16 2:08 PM It sounds like you have put the time into him. If I couldn't find a treatable pain related problem, I would put him down. No animal is worth getting someone hurt or killed. agree
Agree agree. I am kind of in the same situation but ours is an EPM that we have treated with no improvement and he is unrideable for safety reasons. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Whiteboy - 2014-10-16 3:08 PM
It sounds like you have put the time into him. If I couldn't find a treatable pain related problem, I would put him down. No animal is worth getting someone hurt or killed.
I agree with this only after you have tried fluphanize or reserpine....just like ppl horses can have psychotic conditions too.
Also, you may want to remove ALL corn from his diet too. A friend had a PSSM horse that would flip over and pull back and act crazy and it was because his muscles would hurt and he would freak out. Diet change and meds he became a totally different hose.
The poster that said EPM might be the cause may be onto something. We had one in for training that had always been a witch to be around on the ground but was never off. Had a mystery lameness the owner has trying everything on and one vet randomly pulled an EPM tier. They treated for EPM and the mare has a completely difference personality.
If may help "even him out" and if it didn't help then I would put him down. You've given him every change in the world it sounds like and a horse like him would get badly mistreated.
I have to think about cost and can't keep every horse. Prayers with your decision. 
Edited by astreakinchic 2014-10-17 9:20 AM
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | With the exception of the spooking, I think I have his twin. He's 10 and has been hauled everywhere, won a one man sorting jackpot for me and has Extreme Cowboy Race and Ranch points, and I've even roped and doctored a calf at a ranch clinic off of him with no trouble. I give lessons on this same horse in the pen. Two weeks ago, he gave me the worst buck fit ever at a show and demolished the trail pattern the first go. Srcond go was better but the last few obstacles he did like a pro. Then a little while later he had a bucking fit at the trailer. He carries on whether he's worked or not, if he's worked it just not as bad. When he's good, there's no better. When he's bad there's no worse. He tries you on the ground until you whip his hiney and then he quits so I dont feel like its a real pain issue except he's a pain in my hiney! Have had several folks tell me to send him down the road amd I did lease him out for a while and the only reason he came back was because the teenager didnt have as much time as he thought he was going to have. He'll stay right where he's at because I know aside from a bunch of ropers he'd wind up in a bad place. But I know him, know what to expect and I think in the long run it makes me a better horseman. But, not everyone is up for a challenge like that! I do think that addressing pain nd good training can cure the majority of issues out there but I think with those few that will only take you so far and then you just have to decide to deal with it or not. A bullet is far kinder than a lot of roads out there but if you could find someone able and willing to give him a shot that would be best. Maybe you could send a video to Chris Cox or <> Parelli. Might be an option. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Did he see you coming when you approached him in pasture before you touched him? he may be deaf. my deaf paint would get startled easy and about killed me a few times .. kicking and or bolting or jumping over onto me .. he was deaf.. i wish i put him down. i sent him to a boys ranch to be taken care of but i wonder sometimes if i did the right thing for him.. they knew his issues.. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455
| I cannot understand why anyone would argue this. This horse is dangerous (and I am truly sorry for that).... yes I do believe you would be doing the best for the horse by humanely putting him down. So sorry, it is a tough situation, some horses horses are just not meant for this world. I have had a few myself. It is an unfortunate part of this business. Risking a person's health or life is not worth the battle. It sounds like you have done everything you could. |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Bibliafarm - 2014-10-17 9:05 PM
Did he see you coming when you approached him in pasture before you touched him? he may be deaf. my deaf paint would get startled easy and about killed me a few times .. kicking and or bolting or jumping over onto me .. he was deaf.. i wish i put him down. i sent him to a boys ranch to be taken care of but i wonder sometimes if i did the right thing for him.. they knew his issues..
I didn't think of deafness but of eye problems. If he can't see or hear well and you startle him when approached, then one of those may be the issue.
It is up to you and I would never second guess your decision that he is too dangerous to keep around, but alas, I hate giving up, so will go to great lengths to give one every chance. This may be why I have not succeeded as well as I would like, in my barrel racing career.
Do not discount something like PSSM. I believe that it is responsible for many buckers and inconsistent performers and many say that about ulcers as well. A simple feed change to a very low starch plus oil may show changes in a few short weeks.
Whatever you decide to do, it's your horse and your family's safety at stake, so do what your conscience tells you and don't let others make you feel bad about it. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| SoFast - 2014-10-18 9:03 AM I cannot understand why anyone would argue this. This horse is dangerous (and I am truly sorry for that).... yes I do believe you would be doing the best for the horse by humanely putting him down. So sorry, it is a tough situation, some horses horses are just not meant for this world. I have had a few myself. It is an unfortunate part of this business. Risking a person's health or life is not worth the battle. It sounds like you have done everything you could.
Ditto. A humane death is better then being sent down the road and ending up mistreated and abused because of his behavior. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455
| On another note, we use to start colts for a guy that raised world champion show horses. There were tens of thousands of dollars invested into these horses before they even hit the ground. They were not junk. Every single one that we started was really pretty easy, they were always full of it and in show condition, but once you got past that they were very trainable.
Until we received one that was a lot like you described, only probably worse. We did all we could (and yes we put on ranch miles and had him to the vet for blood tests, etc.) He WAS DANGEROUS. The owners decided to put him down (and probably lost $20-30k doing so). They had an autopsy done and the vet found that he had a brain tumor. Sometimes, feed, medication, therapy or training will not help. This was one of those times.
***edited to add, that my husband told me it was not a brain tumor, but something was wrong with his brain and neither of us can remember what... this was quite a few years ago.... but my point is the same.
Edited by SoFast 2014-10-18 12:05 PM
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| SoFast - 2014-10-18 12:03 PM
On another note, we use to start colts for a guy that raised world champion show horses. There were tens of thousands of dollars invested into these horses before they even hit the ground. They were not junk. Every single one that we started was really pretty easy, they were always full of it and in show condition, but once you got past that they were very trainable.
Until we received one that was a lot like you described, only probably worse. We did all we could (and yes we put on ranch miles and had him to the vet for blood tests, etc.) He WAS DANGEROUS. The owners decided to put him down (and probably lost $20-30k doing so). They had an autopsy done and the vet found that he had a brain tumor. Sometimes, feed, medication, therapy or training will not help. This was one of those times.
***edited to add, that my husband told me it was not a brain tumor, but something was wrong with his brain and neither of us can remember what... this was quite a few years ago.... but my point is the same.
Like. |
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 Ones with the Hotties
Posts: 1451
Location: Centerburg, OH | My first thought was part blind or deaf. Sometimes no matter what we do and no matte how much we want to fix them we cant. |
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Veteran
Posts: 151
Location: Australia | Just thinking outside the box... My dad said my uncle once had a horse that had run into a fence as a yearling and had a dent in his forehead, he'd be fine so long as he was cool, but when his blood pressure got up the dent would press his brain and he'd go off... I'm not quite clear if that was a neurological reaction, or pain, i only ever heard the story 2nd hand, but for such odd behaviour it might be worth looking into neaurological issues or head injuries. |
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 Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| rodeoveteran - 2014-10-18 12:20 PM SoFast - 2014-10-18 12:03 PM On another note, we use to start colts for a guy that raised world champion show horses. There were tens of thousands of dollars invested into these horses before they even hit the ground. They were not junk. Every single one that we started was really pretty easy, they were always full of it and in show condition, but once you got past that they were very trainable. Until we received one that was a lot like you described, only probably worse. We did all we could (and yes we put on ranch miles and had him to the vet for blood tests, etc.) He WAS DANGEROUS. The owners decided to put him down (and probably lost $20-30k doing so). They had an autopsy done and the vet found that he had a brain tumor. Sometimes, feed, medication, therapy or training will not help. This was one of those times. ***edited to add, that my husband told me it was not a brain tumor, but something was wrong with his brain and neither of us can remember what... this was quite a few years ago.... but my point is the same. Like.
Bottom line, is this. The horse has the potential to hurt you......well, all horses do, but many choose not to do so. They don't use pain as an excuse to disregard or disrespect humans. I have had many horses over the years and have only culled a few for such behavior, but they have no place on MY place. Our Judge Cash colt is three and is still intact. A little over a month ago, we had his stifles blistered and there are some minor complications we did not realize were happening. He has packed my kid all over the place without trying to hurt her, he has done some bucking, but not serious. The vet could not believe he was letting her ride him without a LOT of bucking. He as a horse, made the choice that he would take care of my kid even though he hurts..........we are doing what we can to get him on the road to recovery and hopefully he won't have to make choices like this again.
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | We had a 2 year old we were due to start. Dad was catching other horses out in the pasture and she kicked out at him for no reason and the next day she was on the kill truck. We don't tolerate kicking. I'd send him packing. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | My shoer told me this one time and now i stick to it for the most part.
" A Good Horse costs just as much money to care for and feed as a bad horse does."
If you're tired of dumping money into him put him down. or give him to someone who knows what they are doing.
But since you said you dont want any one hurt. Just put him down. Lots of good horses out there to fuss over one that doesnt want to be broke. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Check for ulcers. Check for PSSM. Check for EPM. They seem to be the most common issues to cause these kinds of behaviors. If you treat for these and nothing, put him down. Certainly, horse insanity or even if he got into locoweed or something may be causing this. Those things would be for that 'just in case' sort of stuff. After checking for and treating for these, I would not feel guilty for putting him down knowing I'd done everything as well as might be expected and saved somebody from getting hurt. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 670
Location: Running my kids somewhere. | I'm sorry you have to make this call. I've been there. I would put him down. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Just a thought since you said he spokes at every thing and startles easily (which maybe why he kicks?)... Have you ever had a vet look at his eyes? I mean just to make sure they are healthy? It wouldnt hurt. Maybe there is something going on which is why he is so spookey and reactive.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2014-10-20 11:05 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455
| The thing is, if he has vision or hearing problems... there is still not really anything you can do that will "fix" those kind of problems to get him over his dangerous habits. |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | SoFast - 2014-10-18 12:03 PM
On another note, we use to start colts for a guy that raised world champion show horses. There were tens of thousands of dollars invested into these horses before they even hit the ground. They were not junk. Every single one that we started was really pretty easy, they were always full of it and in show condition, but once you got past that they were very trainable.
Until we received one that was a lot like you described, only probably worse. We did all we could (and yes we put on ranch miles and had him to the vet for blood tests, etc.) He WAS DANGEROUS. The owners decided to put him down (and probably lost $20-30k doing so). They had an autopsy done and the vet found that he had a brain tumor. Sometimes, feed, medication, therapy or training will not help. This was one of those times.
***edited to add, that my husband told me it was not a brain tumor, but something was wrong with his brain and neither of us can remember what... this was quite a few years ago.... but my point is the same.
I bet a lot of people would be surprised just how many horses are out there that have true mental issues that CANNOT be fixed. Some horse's brains are just not wired right, and no amount of training and medication can fix them. |
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Location: Texas | If you get HRTV there is a Charles Wilhelm show coming on that is for a dangerous kicker. It also comes on at 2:30 5:30 8:30 and 11:30pm. Its for a horse that kicks at a farrier. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Gunner11 - 2014-10-20 12:40 PM
SoFast - 2014-10-18 12:03 PM
On another note, we use to start colts for a guy that raised world champion show horses. There were tens of thousands of dollars invested into these horses before they even hit the ground. They were not junk. Every single one that we started was really pretty easy, they were always full of it and in show condition, but once you got past that they were very trainable.
Until we received one that was a lot like you described, only probably worse. We did all we could (and yes we put on ranch miles and had him to the vet for blood tests, etc.) He WAS DANGEROUS. The owners decided to put him down (and probably lost $20-30k doing so). They had an autopsy done and the vet found that he had a brain tumor. Sometimes, feed, medication, therapy or training will not help. This was one of those times.
***edited to add, that my husband told me it was not a brain tumor, but something was wrong with his brain and neither of us can remember what... this was quite a few years ago.... but my point is the same.
I bet a lot of people would be surprised just how many horses are out there that have true mental issues that CANNOT be fixed. Some horse's brains are just not wired right, and no amount of training and medication can fix them.
Ppl don't realize their are mental conditions in animals just like their are ppl...some horses are bi-polar, psychotic, etc...
Anti-psychotic medication can fix horses who need "evened out"..... |
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I am a Freak
Posts: 3326
Location: Nowhere Special | I know the feeling.. I have/had a 8 year old gelding, bred to die for, beautiful, draw dropping beautiful and built, athletic all the potential in the world! He was never abused, misused been to 3 different trainers came home everytime with the "boy can he buck" tag. I have sold him twice he came back twice. He is a kitten on the ground and rides 90% of the time fine but when he BLOWS he BLOWS, he will give warning but if its not heeded you are in for a hell of a ride that you will not stay on. I gave him away, lady did everything with him perfect started him from the ground up as if he was not broke, solid, consistent, kind, gentle he WAS doing great decided to have a melt down and blow up on her the other day. That was his last shot, now either a bucking string takes him or he goes into a hole in the ground. There is no excuse for it, to many good ones to feed one that can and will hurt you. Could a cowboy take him and ride him everyday and make him a horse sure, will he get thrown a time or two doing it yep, is it worth it? Not in my mind.. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 178
| I had a similar situation-- he had some behavioral issues, and ended up having a brain tumor as well. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Put him down before he hurts you
Many of the issues can be fixed, but one that intentionally tries to hurt me (and I don't care what 'pain' issue is causing it) has no place on my feed bill. Many horses have issues yet remain kind to their owners. If the horse eyes you up and kicks, it's time to give them a humane end.
If it's a young horse (zipping up my flame suit) I might try a shock collar for the kicking. I have seen that work on one that was a 2 or 3 yo and would try to kick people. However, this horse seems to have a whole host of other issues that would be dealbreakers for me, and considering the time you've put into him, I'd cut my losses.
Sometimes, they just come out wired wrong. I've seen it but thankfully never owned one like that. I am really sorry you are having to deal with it. It isn't easy. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
| barrelracr131 - 2014-10-22 1:01 PM
Put him down before he hurts you
Many of the issues can be fixed, but one that intentionally tries to hurt me (and I don't care what 'pain' issue is causing it) has no place on my feed bill. Many horses have issues yet remain kind to their owners. If the horse eyes you up and kicks, it's time to give them a humane end.
If it's a young horse (zipping up my flame suit) I might try a shock collar for the kicking. I have seen that work on one that was a 2 or 3 yo and would try to kick people. However, this horse seems to have a whole host of other issues that would be dealbreakers for me, and considering the time you've put into him, I'd cut my losses.
Sometimes, they just come out wired wrong. I've seen it but thankfully never owned one like that. I am really sorry you are having to deal with it. It isn't easy.
Like^^^^^^^
I agree, the crazy one I had tried to kill me and everyone else. I was talked into oh she is pretty let me give her a chance and bred great. I wish I would of just put her down. She tried to hurt the vet and I when she was totally sedated and I told the vet just put her down. He said no at that time, then later wished we had. She hurt herself and people and was just wired wrong. This horse was not mistreated, abused, she had it good. Some are not meant for this world. I am sorry you have to make this choice but it costs the same to feed a good one or a bad one.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| astreakinchic - 2014-10-21 1:02 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-10-20 12:40 PM
SoFast - 2014-10-18 12:03 PM
On another note, we use to start colts for a guy that raised world champion show horses. There were tens of thousands of dollars invested into these horses before they even hit the ground. They were not junk. Every single one that we started was really pretty easy, they were always full of it and in show condition, but once you got past that they were very trainable.
Until we received one that was a lot like you described, only probably worse. We did all we could (and yes we put on ranch miles and had him to the vet for blood tests, etc.) He WAS DANGEROUS. The owners decided to put him down (and probably lost $20-30k doing so). They had an autopsy done and the vet found that he had a brain tumor. Sometimes, feed, medication, therapy or training will not help. This was one of those times.
***edited to add, that my husband told me it was not a brain tumor, but something was wrong with his brain and neither of us can remember what... this was quite a few years ago.... but my point is the same.
I bet a lot of people would be surprised just how many horses are out there that have true mental issues that CANNOT be fixed. Some horse's brains are just not wired right, and no amount of training and medication can fix them.
Ppl don't realize their are mental conditions in animals just like their are ppl...some horses are bi-polar, psychotic, etc...
Anti-psychotic medication can fix horses who need "evened out".....
I own a paintaloosa gelding who is bi-polar. Its usually stress triggered, so he's fine in the pasture. You can mess with him as much as you want, and nothing in particular sets him off, except for clippers and alleyways. I once had him stalled for a few days, and I went in there to take him out, and I had his stud chain, because I always just took precautions with him, since I knew he could snap randomly. And as I was slipping his chain on, he reared up and struck out at me. He aimed for my head, but I moved fast enough he only got my back. That was the last time I did anything with him. Now he stays out in the pasture, away from anything that can set him off, and away from people he can hurt. We don't do any upkeep on him, except do his feet like 3 times a year and vet check him in the spring (heavily sedated of course, we learned that lesson). We don't give him any grain, and he gets a flake of hay once a day in the winter. So he's a really easy keeper, so we just leave him out there. |
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Considering Putting Him Down